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Æthelthryth the Texan

Let's get messy- s/o Ester Maria, Neoclassical/Classical rigor and other ed thoughts?

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I was searching through my saved threads and found this one...

 

I miss these ladies and these conversations so much! 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Kfamily said:

I was searching through my saved threads and found this one...

 

I miss these ladies and these conversations so much! 

 

I miss Joan in Geneva and Tiramisu too. 

My kids did AP Chemistry concurrently with AP Physics C in 8th grade. I was from the Cambridge system and doing physics and chemistry every year from 9th to 12th grade was common for science track students. My husband did biology all four years as well but I didn’t like biology as an academic subject so I drop it in 9th.

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55 minutes ago, Penelope said:

 
I think it’s the opposite, actually: the current neo-classical “revival” began with private Christian schools in the eighties and nineties. Most people didn’t have access to one of these schools, so enter Veritas Press and then The Well-Trained Mind. Followed later by Circe, Classical Academic Press, and others. Many of the people involved in these enterprises were involved in the classical school (not only homeschool) movement as well (I think The Well-Trained Mind was so beloved partly because it said some version of this could be done at home and that there are many different resources you could use to do it).  I think a lot of the growth in the school models and in the movement did happen as a result of interest from homeschoolers, but it isn’t something that began with homeschoolers. In fact, some of the people involved in starting the early schools were vocal about the fact that a true classical education could not be achieved with homeschooling. I think they are right! But I also think some of the schools probably aren’t able to provide a “true” classical education (whatever that is, lol), either, for many of the reasons mentioned in this thread.

 

I think you misread my post.  I never asserted that classical education/movement began with homeschoolers.  I did say that homeschoolers picked up the conversation and carried it for a while.  😉 

My main point wasn't who got there first... rather, that the conversation shifts according to who is carrying the ball.  The rise of the hybrid classical school (not the initial flagship academies of the 80s/90s) over the past 8-10 years has resulted in one such shift.  Places I could go to for defining and exploring general topics of classical ed from roughly 2005 - 2015 now seem to favor content created by/aimed at classical teachers, admins, and parents at classical institutional models.

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5 hours ago, Doodlebug said:

 

Your posts in this thread resonate so deeply!  Quoting you because my points launch off from here.  

About a year ago, I started a thread about "who's pulling the strings in classical ed."  The questions I wanted answered, but struggled to articulate: Who's defining classical ed right now?  What are they getting right?  What are they getting dead wrong?  I wasn't talking about the average curriculum vendor.  I was talking about a new whiff of sentiments coming out of articles at Circe and similar sites.  

At that time,  I'd been a long time homeschooling parent who chose a local uni-model classical Christian school to get a breather.  You would find lofty discussion about classical ed at this school among the administrators: truth, goodness, beauty.  Virtue.  Impressive reading lists.  Politics.  All the authors you mentioned.  So much came down to a formula they'd gotten "right."  What I excused as youthful idealism, and likely began that way, was far worse-- an unfortunate view of families, particularly women and children -- as organisms which could be rightly educated -- thus renewing culture.  Pawns.  The methodology was control.  It was the least Christian view of human beings I have ever encountered.  

All of that to say -- in the past 12-13 years I've been homeschooling, I now recognize the conversation on classical education which was taken up and promulgated by early homeschooling circles, has expanded to include the newer shinier brand of classical private/charter/hybrid schools -- institutional education.  As social media algorithms and mass marketing go, articles centered on classical institution topics eclipsed supports for parent-teachers.  Add to that the criticisms which the members of the institutions lay upon the heads of homeschool parents without distinction -- no wonder the online "conversation" of parent-teachers has diminished in classical ed!  We may get a "bless her heart" nod on social media, but there are very few classical outlets truly ringing the bell for parent - educators.

Just my $.02.

Great Hearts, a "classical" charter, is now trying to get into the homeschool hybrid market. AFAIK it's not available yet but the idea is that kids would attend classes at a Great Hearts school once a week and the parents would taught by the GH's "master teachers" about how to implement the GH's curriculum. My reaction to this was 🤮. The underlying assumption is obviously that the homeschooling parents (mothers really) are just too ignorant to implement the GH "classical" curriculum which is completely ridiculous given that the GH curriculum is full of programs used by many HSers on this forum. 

I follow Circe on FB and sometimes read the linked articles which are almost always about topics that relates to schools, not homeschools. 

Honestly, I don't think any of the men opining about classical education online are anywhere near as smart as the mothers who have participated on this forum over the years. My first introduction to Circe was the huge thread from 10 or so years ago. It was before my time but I spent days reading it in the archives. At first, I thought it was awesome. Here's what I remember - all of the women here kept asking Andrew Kern for ideas of how to implement his lofty ideas but he couldn't come up with anything concrete and then he disappeared. After he left, the women here figured it out for themselves. So many of the "truth, beauty, goodness" folks are all talk. Their assumptions are often based on romanticized views of the past. 

I've compared the Classical Christian school movement with the Benedict Option because I think they are both based on the same flawed assumptions and attractive to the same kind of people. Here's a great a critique of the Benedict Option book which applies equally to the CC school movement:

Quote

Here, again, the tension in Dreher’s history and historiography demostrates how poorly thought out the story and argument is and his application of this through so-called “classical” education makes it rather laughable. After all, most classical curricula, as with most traditionalist things en vogue today, are a recent convention, based on presentist misunderstandings of the past.

The Benedict Option: A Critical Review

 

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On 12/20/2019 at 6:40 PM, Ordinary Shoes said:

Honestly, I don't think any of the men opining about classical education online are anywhere near as smart as the mothers who have participated on this forum over the years. My first introduction to Circe was the huge thread from 10 or so years ago. 

 


Im heading out with my family soon, but wanted to say... absolutely right!  The mothers (and a few dads) who have added to this forum are bright spots in my journey as a parent-teacher.  
It was probably about two years ago that I read an article on the defragmentation of classical ed within classical schools.  ... I think it was Cothran (nope, it was Perrin), who I believe was getting a lot right about institutional teaching — teaching human souls, the sterile nature of classrooms, etc... .  It was the perfect lay-up for him/someone to say, “This is where the homeschoolers get it right.”  Nope.  The absence made it a very odd read... 

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On 12/19/2019 at 12:37 PM, Sneezyone said:

 

Yes, *HER VERSION* of classical education (defined only by western texts) as the only, true form of education and exemplified by contempt for any newfangled information:

 

It’s not “her version.” Classical world refers to Ancient Greece and Rome, and Classical Education is the one with Latin, Ancient Greek languages, literature, and history at the core. It’s “the” definition. 

I am puzzled when people claim they are into classical education and Latin isn’t a center point of it. I am not a classical educator, but I very much admired EM and miss her debates. I might have been tempted into such schooling choices if I had a different set of kids.  

 

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On 12/19/2019 at 1:05 PM, maize said:

 

I agree, and find the presumption that there is a tradition and canon proper to Western Civilization that produces superior thinkers and writers exceedingly narrow minded. 

The idea that quality writing is best developed through a study of Latin and Greek would seem to minimize and marginalize the great traditions of Arab literature, of Chinese literature, of every other literary tradition not heavily influenced by the Greek and Latin traditions of Europe.

I find myself agreeing with Ester Maria in this--teach Latin, teach Greek, if what you want is to engage with the particular literary traditions that surround those languages.

Don't teach them because of a presumption that the classical tradition they represent is going to make your children into better thinkers or better writers; there are many roads to quality thinking and writing.

 

For EM (if I remember this correctly), the goal of education wasn’t producing superior thinkers and writers, but transmission of culture. 

Nobody is minimizing and marginalizing Arabic and Chinese literature, but she argued for a Westerner, Classical Literature was a cannon worth transmitting. She was Jewish herself and made sure her DDs were also immersed into Hebrew language and culture in admission. 

So for a Chinese person, it would make sense to focus on Chinese language and Lit if transmission of culture is an ultimate goal of education.  

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3 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

 

It’s not “her version.” Classical world refers to Ancient Greece and Rome, and Classical Education is the one with Latin, Ancient Greek languages, literature, and history at the core. It’s “the” definition. 

I am puzzled when people claim they are into classical education and Latin isn’t a center point of it. I am not a classical educator, but I very much admired EM and miss her debates. I might have been tempted into such schooling choices if I had a different set of kids.  

 

It has taken me awhile reading all these threads to find time to really make a comment.

I would declare if asked that I aspire to be a classical educator.  More specifically I aspire to be a classical Christian educator.  I agree that EM’s definition is correct...classical education by historical definition requires classical languages.  I harbor no delusions that what goes on in my homeschool really would be recognized as classical education for many reasons, but I try to provide or find access to many of the core components.  I read the WTM many years ago and tried to implement it, but it had too many moving parts.  I would declare it new-traditional education.  The Latin Centered Education spoke much more to me.  In practically, we use many Memoria Press materials.  

I think a large part of why Latin was the center of a classical Christian education was that Latin was the language of the church.  Somewhere along the line, despite their non-Christian existence, someone argued that the Greeks had amazing insight into the human condition.  Of course the canon can change as time marches on (it has - Shakespeare obviously never knew Homer), but I believe that it is crucial that we have a unified core of knowledge from which to discuss anything.  Are there great women writers? Yes Are there great _____ writers? Yes.  However, to throw out the classics and denigrate their importance just because they were written long ago by men is a massive example of chronological snobbery.  The human condition has not changed and the Greeks were masters of getting to the heart of some really fundamental human questions.  Expressions like “there is nothing  new under the sun” or “those who refuse to study history are doomed to repeat it” come to mind.  By no means are classical works all we should be studying, but to throw them out as irrelevant because we don’t like who wrote them or because we deem that they are irrelevant to modern times as I have read in this thread is disturbing.  It really doesn’t have to be either/or, but can be both (old)/and (new).

On a personal level, I like the focus on Latin for its regularity, it’s cumulative nature for our language studies (like math and music), and its flexibility in helping learn many other languages later on in life.  I don’t have the ability to provide an immersion in a modern language so for the moment Latin is accessible.  It also will allow my children (and hopefully myself) to someday read works in Latin and Greek.  As Roman Rite Catholics Latin also seemed to be a good starting language for my children.  I converted from an evangelical background before I was married an I often struggled with older writings about the beauty of the Mass.  On a lark because of our Latin studies we decided to visit a traditional Latin Mass in our area and loved it.  I could finally understand what I had been reading.  By throwing out the old for the new and progressive and “easier to understand “ the Church alienated huge numbers of people from their cultural heritage...by throwing out classics because they are not new and progressive and modern our entire society has been alienated from the cultural heritage that created it.  In my opinion, neither radical experiment has been bearing good fruit.  It has been stated up thread that a book list or teaching method won’t bring us virtue, but ignoring the conversation of history on what makes a virtuous person and denying that there is any such thing as absolute truth and denying ourselves examples of great beauty certainly isn’t going to bring virtue either.  Those conversations aren’t happening in the world around me and that beauty in art and music aren’t generally in the lives of those around me so striving for a classical education is a way for me to be intentional in providing exposure to my children and to myself.

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34 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

 

For EM (if I remember this correctly), the goal of education wasn’t producing superior thinkers and writers, but transmission of culture. 

Nobody is minimizing and marginalizing Arabic and Chinese literature, but she argued for a Westerner, Classical Literature was a cannon worth transmitting. She was Jewish herself and made sure her DDs were also immersed into Hebrew language and culture in admission. 

So for a Chinese person, it would make sense to focus on Chinese language and Lit if transmission of culture is an ultimate goal of education.  

 

And transmission of one's own cultural heritage is certainly a valid argument.

Two issues remain that require careful examination:

For many of us on this board, our heritage is multicultural. I would argue actually that for anyone in the United States our national heritage is multicultural. If we were to approach the adoption of a national canon of some sort it would need to represent diversity of culture--we are not exclusively or even primarily the cultural offspring of Greece and Rome, nor as some might argue of Greece, Rome and the ancient Hebrew traditions that gave us the Bible. I acknowledge all of these as significant but not exclusive influences on our culture, but to pretend to our children by the methods and materials we chose to educate them with that only these influences matter would be dishonest.

The other issue is the questionable ethics and morality, not to mention wisdom, in a world as interconnected as ours has become, of embracing one particular heritage--any particular heritage--as superior to all others. And there is a strong tendency towards precisely this sort of judgment in many of the arguments for teaching in the Western Classical Tradition.

Embracing something because it is our heritage can be good. Embracing something because it has produced quality results in the past can be good. But embracing one rather ossified tradition as presumptively superior to all others seems excessively and potentially dangerously narrow-minded both for what it teaches--this heritage is the only one that matters and encompasses all necessary good--and for what it leaves out--the potentially enriching contributions of all other traditions and sources.

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13 minutes ago, maize said:

 

And transmission of one's own cultural heritage is certainly a valid argument.

Two issues remain that require careful examination:

For many of us on this board, our heritage is multicultural. I would argue actually that for anyone in the United States our national heritage is multicultural. If we were to approach the adoption of a national canon of some sort it would need to represent diversity of culture--we are not exclusively or even primarily the cultural offspring of Greece and Rome, nor as some might argue of Greece, Rome and the ancient Hebrew traditions that gave us the Bible. I acknowledge all of these as significant but not exclusive influences on our culture, but to pretend to our children by the methods and materials we chose to educate them with that only these influences matter would be dishonest.

The other issue is the questionable ethics and morality, not to mention wisdom, in a world as interconnected as ours has become, of embracing one particular heritage--any particular heritage--as superior to all others. And there is a strong tendency towards precisely this sort of judgment in many of the arguments for teaching in the Western Classical Tradition.

Embracing something because it is our heritage can be good. Embracing something because it has produced quality results in the past can be good. But embracing one rather ossified tradition as presumptively superior to all others seems excessively and potentially dangerously narrow-minded both for what it teaches--this heritage is the only one that matters and encompasses all necessary good--and for what it leaves out--the potentially enriching contributions of all other traditions and sources.

 

Well, everybody choses what they want to do.

She, as a Western European, whose cultural foundations came from Ancient Rome and Greece, believed in true (by definition) Classical Education and transmission of Western cultural values. She didn’t argue this as a stamp for everybody.

I would say given her upbringing and social status in her society, she most likely received a “right” education for her. And that education will be a “right” one for others as well, but not all. Obviously most of us won’t be mixing in upper crusts of Western European social and political establishment.  

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6 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

 

Well, everybody choses what they want to do.

She, as a Western European, whose cultural foundations came from Ancient Rome and Greece, believed in true (by definition) Classical Education and transmission of Western cultural values. She didn’t argue this as a stamp for everybody.

I would say given her upbringing and social status in her society, she most likely received a “right” education for her. And that education will be a “right” one for others as well, but not all. Obviously most of us won’t be mixing in upper crusts of Western European social and political establishment.  

No, we’d just be lucky to train the future money runners and lawyers of the upper crust 😂I mean, since creative writing is out and all. 

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14 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

No, we’d just be lucky to train the future money runners and lawyers of the upper crust 😂I mean, since creative writing is out and all. 

 

Her posts were aspirational and I think that’s what got me on a GB wagon at least. No Latin here or Ancient Greek, but she did sell me on the cultural transmission and  “cannon” even if I am most certainly transmitting a “wrong” culture.  😂

Obviously those who would rather focus on cooking and stitching up clothing (and nothing wrong with any of it) are free to do so. I am just saying each educational option probably has something it strives to achieve, so we should strive. I will take a banker at this point. 😋

She wasn’t against creative writing, but was against shoving it down in public schools instead of more academic writing. I get it though. It would kill my children to have to write creatively or produce paintings. 

 

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I follow Circe on FB and they posted a blog post today that made me a little bit ragey. It contains everything that I dislike about "Christian Classical education." 

There's the assumption that the curriculum at this school is "good" and promotes "virtue," and the things the poor kid likes (video games, modern music) are "bad." Based on what exactly? The claim that what they do promotes virtue is so manipulative, IMHO, because it preys on the fears of parents. 

Quote

We read Doug Wilson’s book. We read Steve Turley’s book. We read Jain and Clark’s book. We spent hours online reading essays from just about everybody. Andrew Kern. Chris Perrin. We learned about Charlotte Mason.

Those poor parents...

Quote

Father: Let me turn the question around on you, though. Can you not imagine the sudden removal of his phone, his music, and his games causing a rift between us which never healed?

Gibbs: I can imagine it, especially if this great purge of worldliness from your home were conducted poorly, with no explanation, no repentance on your part, no change on your part, and no redoubled effort on your part to show Mack that you love him.

Thankfully this discussion probably did not happen so there isn't some poor, unhappy kid who lost everything he likes because a teacher in a classical school believes everything about the kid is bad. 

Quote

He’s just not interested in what this school is offering. He thinks old books are dumb.

The kid might be right. Some of the "old books" on all of the "classical" reading lists are "dumb," or rather not worth reading. What makes The Five Little Peppers and How they Grew or The Boxcar Children and a bunch of Henty novels "classical?" 

I'm not a gamer and there was a time in my life when I had a lot of disdain for people who played video games. I've grown a bit since then. I know a lot of parents who feel that they are failing at being the *right* kind of parents because their kids like screens. Julie Bogart discusses this topic here. Video Gaming and Homeschooling

Is it Too Late for My Child to Become Classical?

ETA - I asked on this forum a few months ago for advice about booklists. I remember writing that I agreed with the "good before great" idea and wanted modern "good" books. IIRC, I doubted that the "good" books on many of the standard booklists were really that great anyway. 

Edited by Ordinary Shoes
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7 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

The kid might be right. Some of the "old books" on all of the "classical" reading lists are "dumb," or rather not worth reading. What makes The Five Little Peppers and How they Grew or The Boxcar Children and a bunch of Henty novels "classical?" 

 

this reminds me of one of my older ds, after reading Don Quixote, wrote a lovely book report explaining the dangers of reading classical books as it will make you go insane 

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1 hour ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

The kid might be right. Some of the "old books" on all of the "classical" reading lists are "dumb," or rather not worth reading. What makes The Five Little Peppers and How they Grew or The Boxcar Children and a bunch of Henty novels "classical?" 

 

The Boxcar Children, seriously? I mean, my daughter's read a ton of those books, but they seem squarely in the "beach reading" category to me. There's nothing WRONG with beach reading; frankly, most of the reading I do nowadays is beach reading... However, those books aren't written particularly well, don't stretch you in any way, and don't inspire a deeper understanding of just about anything... 

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1 hour ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I follow Circe on FB and they posted a blog post today that made me a little bit ragey. It contains everything that I dislike about "Christian Classical education." 

There's the assumption that the curriculum at this school is "good" and promotes "virtue," and the things the poor kid likes (video games, modern music) are "bad." Based on what exactly? The claim that what they do promotes virtue is so manipulative, IMHO, because it preys on the fears of parents. 

Those poor parents...

Thankfully this discussion probably did not happen so there isn't some poor, unhappy kid who lost everything he likes because a teacher in a classical school believes everything about the kid is bad. 

The kid might be right. Some of the "old books" on all of the "classical" reading lists are "dumb," or rather not worth reading. What makes The Five Little Peppers and How they Grew or The Boxcar Children and a bunch of Henty novels "classical?" 

I'm not a gamer and there was a time in my life when I had a lot of disdain for people who played video games. I've grown a bit since then. I know a lot of parents who feel that they are failing at being the *right* kind of parents because their kids like screens. Julie Bogart discusses this topic here. Video Gaming and Homeschooling

Is it Too Late for My Child to Become Classical?

ETA - I asked on this forum a few months ago for advice about booklists. I remember writing that I agreed with the "good before great" idea and wanted modern "good" books. IIRC, I doubted that the "good" books on many of the standard booklists were really that great anyway. 

 

I can't read those teacher repartee posts.  I don't have a sense of humor when it comes to pieces which consistently tout teachers/schools as the authority and mock parents as muddling idiots.  It's trash.  

I give you permission to unsubscribe.  😉  Reading that stuff put me in a negative reaction based loop... living there, I had no energy for defining and leading the homeschool I have authority over.  

And you are right.  It is fear based.  This is why people eat. it. up.  People are afraid and they want someone who sounds like they have answers.  Enter the tyrant. 

 

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1 hour ago, square_25 said:

 

The Boxcar Children, seriously? I mean, my daughter's read a ton of those books, but they seem squarely in the "beach reading" category to me. There's nothing WRONG with beach reading; frankly, most of the reading I do nowadays is beach reading... However, those books aren't written particularly well, don't stretch you in any way, and don't inspire a deeper understanding of just about anything... 

I know it's on some lists. It's been awhile since I reviewed elementary booklists from "classical" and "great books" curricula so I might not remember the specific books. 

Here is the 4th grade list from Angelicum which claims to follow a Great Books philosophy. Some of these are really weird choices. 3 Henty books? What makes all of these books "good?" I see a strong influence of personal preference here which assumption being that if John Senior liked it, it must be "good." 

LITERATURE – THE GOOD BOOKS PROGRAM
Complete Chronicles of Narnia by C. S. Lewis
Little Women by Louisa May Alcott
Little Men by Louisa May Alcott
Eight Cousins by Louisa May Alcott
Captain’s Courageous by Rudyard Kipling
Robin Hood by Howard Pyle
Otto of the Silver Hand by Howard Pyle
Call of the Wild by Jack London
Around the World in 80 Days by Jules Verne
Kidnapped! by Robert Louis Stevenson
Robinson Crusoe by Daniel Defoe
Princess of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Gods of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Warlord of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Thuvia, Maid of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Chessmen of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Knight of the White Cross by G. A. Henty
Story of a Bad Boy by Thomas Bailey Aldrich
Cat of Bubastes by G. A. Henty
Prince and the Pauper by Mark Twain
Tale of the Western Plains by G. A. Henty

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1 hour ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I know it's on some lists. It's been awhile since I reviewed elementary booklists from "classical" and "great books" curricula so I might not remember the specific books. 

Here is the 4th grade list from Angelicum which claims to follow a Great Books philosophy. Some of these are really weird choices. 3 Henty books? What makes all of these books "good?" I see a strong influence of personal preference here which assumption being that if John Senior liked it, it must be "good." 

LITERATURE – THE GOOD BOOKS PROGRAM
Complete Chronicles of Narnia by C. S. Lewis
Little Women by Louisa May Alcott
Little Men by Louisa May Alcott
Eight Cousins by Louisa May Alcott
Captain’s Courageous by Rudyard Kipling
Robin Hood by Howard Pyle
Otto of the Silver Hand by Howard Pyle
Call of the Wild by Jack London
Around the World in 80 Days by Jules Verne
Kidnapped! by Robert Louis Stevenson
Robinson Crusoe by Daniel Defoe
Princess of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Gods of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Warlord of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Thuvia, Maid of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Chessmen of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Knight of the White Cross by G. A. Henty
Story of a Bad Boy by Thomas Bailey Aldrich
Cat of Bubastes by G. A. Henty
Prince and the Pauper by Mark Twain
Tale of the Western Plains by G. A. Henty

I am a pretty well-read person. I have never heard of a lot of these books. I understand wanting to know stories because they shape our cultural identity and it is helpful to know literary allusions, but Edgar Rice Burroughs? I just think there are far better books out there. Plus, if you want to expose your kids to beautiful language, there are also plenty of good books out there. 

I read aloud and expose my kids to tons of good literature. After seeing this list, I will no longer feel guilty about not doing some of the "good books that lead to the great books." 

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9 hours ago, annegables said:

I am a pretty well-read person. I have never heard of a lot of these books. I understand wanting to know stories because they shape our cultural identity and it is helpful to know literary allusions, but Edgar Rice Burroughs? I just think there are far better books out there. Plus, if you want to expose your kids to beautiful language, there are also plenty of good books out there. 

I read aloud and expose my kids to tons of good literature. After seeing this list, I will no longer feel guilty about not doing some of the "good books that lead to the great books." 

Those "great book" lists need to be taken with a grain of salt. All the lists I've seen have the same issue -- they contain some great books but are also packed with 19th century fluff, not to mention racism/sexism. I really recommend pre-reading the books on these lists BEFORE reading them to your kids.

Some people seem to use those lists to push a certain cultural agenda. I see plenty of blogs promoting them because they represent "old fashioned gender roles" and "traditional families" as opposed to more recent literature which might include, gasp, divorce or working mothers.  

Again, there's plenty of good stuff on these lists, but they have to be treated with some skepticism.

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14 hours ago, Doodlebug said:

 

I can't read those teacher repartee posts.  I don't have a sense of humor when it comes to pieces which consistently tout teachers/schools as the authority and mock parents as muddling idiots.  It's trash.  

I give you permission to unsubscribe.  😉  Reading that stuff put me in a negative reaction based loop... living there, I had no energy for defining and leading the homeschool I have authority over.  

And you are right.  It is fear based.  This is why people eat. it. up.  People are afraid and they want someone who sounds like they have answers.  Enter the tyrant. 

 


I agree. I like a lot of what Circe puts out, but there are particular authors I don’t always appreciate. 
I read a book by one of them, and it had some good things to say. But it also reminded me of when I was in my thirties with younger children and thought there were more Answers than there really are, and that I had some of them. 😉

Reading or listening to Cindy Rollins or Karen Kern,  on the other hand, is a breath of fresh air. 

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12 hours ago, annegables said:

I am a pretty well-read person. I have never heard of a lot of these books. I understand wanting to know stories because they shape our cultural identity and it is helpful to know literary allusions, but Edgar Rice Burroughs? I just think there are far better books out there. Plus, if you want to expose your kids to beautiful language, there are also plenty of good books out there. 

I read aloud and expose my kids to tons of good literature. After seeing this list, I will no longer feel guilty about not doing some of the "good books that lead to the great books." 

That list is strange and has been commented on in the past. I don’t think it is typical of Classical recommended book lists.

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4 hours ago, Penelope said:

That list is strange and has been commented on in the past. I don’t think it is typical of Classical recommended book lists.

Thank heavens for that😂

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