Looking for social commentary novels

[lewelma]

I'm looking for books that explore deep, complex topics that are engaging to read. 

So far I have come up with Oliver Twist, My Sister's Keeper, The Lord of the Flies, Ender's Game, The Watchman. Notice the breadth of styles and periods. I'm keen for more than just classics.

What I want:  1) books that lean towards social commentary and open up topics that ds and I can discuss.  2)  Humor or satire get an extra star. 🙂  ETA: 3) Perhaps more topics like the implications of genetic engineering, income inequality, and power.  

What I don't want: Books that are 1) depressing e.g. The Jungle; or 2) difficult to read e.g. 1984; or 3) explore emotion and the human condition e.g. Crime and Punishment. ETA: social commentary and human condition overlap, but things like Crime and Punishment are mostly about getting into the mind of the character rather than considering social issues.

Suggestions?

Ruth in NZ

Books suggested so far that fit:

Martian Chronicles

I, Robot

Beggars of Spain

Out of the Silent Planet

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by lewelma

[JoJosMom]

Maybe The Book Thief?

 

ETA: The ending is sad and it's a bit human condition-y, but I think it might work. (I asked Jo. "Humor? Maybe  Vonnegut, except you laugh to fill the void that erupts within your soul." Then she said maybe Cat's Cradle or Animal Farm. She says they're readable. Maybe novella of Beggars in Spain, by Nancy Kress. Maybe Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451 or his short stories ["basically, he's dystopian but it ends on a hopeful note."] The short stories aren't all social commentary. [Oh, my she talks fast] BUt not The Martian Chronicles-gets very dark [she's really into dark])

Edited December 13, 2019 by JoJosMom

[lewelma]

8 minutes ago, JoJosMom said:

Maybe The Book Thief?

Too depressing I think.

I'm wondering if he would like engaging nonfiction like The Hillbilly Elegy.

[8filltheheart]

Lewis's Space Trilogy

Lots of great short stories (love short story studies with my high schoolers)

The obvious LOTR (or the Silmarillion.....lots of good stuff. I love the Silmarillion.)

Edited December 13, 2019 by 8FillTheHeart

[JoJosMom]

3 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Too depressing I think.

I'm wondering if he would like engaging nonfiction like The Hillbilly Elegy.

 

I edited my above. If Book Thief is too dark, Jo says beware Ender's Game and Lord of the Flies. We also came up with The Giver.

 

Lord of the Flies is the very definition of depressing and human condition-y

Edited December 13, 2019 by JoJosMom

[8filltheheart]

1 minute ago, JoJosMom said:

 

Lord of the Flies is the very definition of depressing and human condition-y

Agree!

[8filltheheart]

A Night Divided combined with Ratnesar's Tear Down This Wall.

[lewelma]

3 minutes ago, JoJosMom said:

 

I edited my above. If Book Thief is too dark, Jo says beware Ender's Game and Lord of the Flies. We also came up with The Giver.

Lord of the Flies is the very definition of depressing and human condition-y

Waving at Jo!  🙂 

I put Ender's Game, and Lord of the Flies down because he has read them and likes them.  

Perhaps Book Thief is not what I think it is as I have not read it. But I'm not sure he will want historical fiction. 

He read the Giver and liked it. So you are on the right track. Thanks!

[JoJosMom]

Jo on my mom’s phone (I don’t talk fast, by the way, she hears slow): Martian Chronicles isn’t that bad. There are a few short stories I might skip if he’s really sensitive, but you could easily skip them without being confused. Also, maybe I, Robot? I’m not entirely sure how a book could be social commentary without also touching on the human condition, though, so I’m not sure what exactly you’re looking for. Hope this helps!

[lewelma]

Perhaps more topics like the implications of genetic engineering, income inequality, and power.  

[lewelma]

(I asked Jo. "Humor? Maybe  Vonnegut, except you laugh to fill the void that erupts within your soul." Then she said maybe Cat's Cradle or Animal Farm. She says they're readable. Maybe novella of Beggars in Spain, by Nancy Kress. Maybe Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451 or his short stories ["basically, he's dystopian but it ends on a hopeful note."] The short stories aren't all social commentary. [Oh, my she talks fast] BUt not The Martian Chronicles-gets very dark [she's really into dark])

He read Cat's Cradle years and years ago and liked it. 

I'm not sure he has read fahrenheit 451 or Animal Farm.  I'll ask. Beggars in Spain looks good, although in the past he has not like Sci Fi but he is getting older! DH thinks he might like the Martian Chronicles.

[JoJosMom]

3 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Waving at Jo!  🙂 

I put Ender's Game, and Lord of the Flies down because he has read them and likes them.  

Perhaps Book Thief is not what I think it is as I have not read it. But I'm not sure he will want historical fiction. 

He read the Giver and liked it. So you are on the right track. Thanks!

Jo again: okay, so if he liked Lord of the Flies, Martian Chronicles won’t be a problem. Speaking as someone who read Titus Andronicus before bed in fourth grade without issues, Lord of the Flies is dark. 

3 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Perhaps more topics like the implications of genetic engineering, income inequality, and power.  

Okay, yeah, you want Beggars in Spain. You basically just listed its central themes.

[JoJosMom]

1 minute ago, lewelma said:

(I asked Jo. "Humor? Maybe  Vonnegut, except you laugh to fill the void that erupts within your soul." Then she said maybe Cat's Cradle or Animal Farm. She says they're readable. Maybe novella of Beggars in Spain, by Nancy Kress. Maybe Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451 or his short stories ["basically, he's dystopian but it ends on a hopeful note."] The short stories aren't all social commentary. [Oh, my she talks fast] BUt not The Martian Chronicles-gets very dark [she's really into dark])

He read Cat's Cradle years and years ago and liked it. 

I'm not sure he has read fahrenheit 451 or Animal Farm.  I'll ask. Beggars in Spain looks good, although in the past he has not like Sci Fi but he is getting older! DH thinks he might like the Martian Chronicles.

 

Jo yet again: he liked Cat’s Cradle? Do you know how it ends??? Because it’s the epitome of depressing. (Would explain but I’m not sure how to mark spoilers.)

[lewelma]

5 minutes ago, JoJosMom said:

Jo on my mom’s phone (I don’t talk fast, by the way, she hears slow):

haha!

Martian Chronicles isn’t 

that bad. There are a few short stories I might skip if he’s really sensitive, but you could easily skip them without being confused. Also, maybe I, Robot? I’m not entirely sure how a book could be social commentary without also touching on the human condition, though, so I’m not sure what exactly you’re looking for. Hope this helps!

dh says I, Robot is a good choice.  

I agree that you can't do social commentary without also touching on the human condition, he just doesn't wan't something that is focused on exploring emotion only.  Or that is too depressing.  Angel's Ashes comes to mind or Metamorphosis. Very depressing. 

[lewelma]

ds read Cat's Cradle a very long time ago. I think I gave it to him at age 11.  ooops. So maybe back then he didn't mind depressing?  Don't really remember.

He has read the Martian Chronicles, but it was so long ago, he said he would like to read them again!

 

[mumto2]

Perhaps Supernova Era https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43263225-supernova-era would be of interest.  I recently read it and lots of discussion in this recently translated Chinese dystopian science fiction book.  It’s a slightly different Lord of the Flies........might even be interesting to compare them.

[lewelma]

5 minutes ago, mumto2 said:

Perhaps Supernova Era https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43263225-supernova-era would be of interest.  I recently read it and lots of discussion in this recently translated Chinese dystopian science fiction book.  It’s a slightly different Lord of the Flies........might even be interesting to compare them.

Oh, my dh is excited. He like the three body problem by the same guy!

[mumto2]

4 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Oh, my dh is excited. He like the three body problem by the same guy!

Tell him it’s not as good as The Three Body Problem......more of a very interesting.😂

Since your Dh likes Sci Fi a couple other thought provoking ones were Murderbot (think there are 4 short books) and Medusa Uploaded........sentient AI basically.  Fun brain candy that have discussion potential.

Edited December 13, 2019 by mumto2

[8filltheheart]

Just laughing at the fact that you said he doesnt really like science fiction but every book that fits is.

Maybe Percy's Lost in the Cosmos for a different genre. 🙂https://www.npr.org/2012/11/30/157305871/an-existential-guide-for-when-youre-really-lost

Edited December 13, 2019 by 8FillTheHeart

[LMD]

What about Asimov's Foundation series? Very social commentary, not too difficult, engaging (imo)

Dd is very into the dystopian genre and is currently reading a series called Gone by Michael Grant.

Holes by Louis Sachar (Maybe too young?)

Great Gatsby

Less propaganda-ey Rand like We The Living?

Master and margarita

Any dickens 

 

[LMD]

Chesterton's Man Who was Thursday is a good one. The Father Brown stories are excellent too.

[LMD]

Maybe some Neil Gaiman like Neverwhere? Fantasy.

[JoJosMom]

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

ds read Cat's Cradle a very long time ago. I think I gave it to him at age 11.  ooops. So maybe back then he didn't mind depressing?  Don't really remember.

He has read the Martian Chronicles, but it was so long ago, he said he would like to read them again!

 

Jo: at that age, the ending may have gone over his head. 😛

[lewelma]

1 hour ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

Just laughing at the fact that you said he doesnt really like science fiction but every book that fits is.

I know!  I just talked to him about this.  He said that he doesn't really like sci fi, because he feels that the author is trying to drive him towards a certain thought process about an issue. He prefers books with deep complex plots that he can take from it what he wants. 

 

[lewelma]

So ds said that I'm mis-understanding what he likes.  It is not social-commentary, haha. Need to start a new thread! Rather he likes deep complex plots that are about human interaction. He just doesn't want them depressing.  But then he said that he likes grim-dark fantasy!?!?!? Haha. Our discussion was actually quite nuanced, and he is definitely a deep thinker who know what he wants.  

Sounds like he will do audiobooks from the Pride and Prejudice era, because he loves those kinds.  Sound like he wants to do Northanger Abbey and Oliver Twist. (he definitely likes humor/satire)

For novels he wants to go after The Martian Chronicles, Beggars of Spain, and a grim-dark fantasy series we just found. 

Thanks guys for helping me.  As I read out the suggestions and looked them up, it helped him to identify what he actually wants!  

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

Just laughing at the fact that you said he doesnt really like science fiction but every book that fits is.

Maybe Percy's Lost in the Cosmos for a different genre. 🙂https://www.npr.org/2012/11/30/157305871/an-existential-guide-for-when-youre-really-lost

I think sci fi does explore these issues so thoroughly because it allows us to separate them from other issues they can get mixed up with in real world stories and tackle just the abstracts concepts.

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, lewelma said:

So ds said that I'm mis-understanding what he likes.  It is not social-commentary, haha. Need to start a new thread! Rather he likes deep complex plots that are about human interaction. He just doesn't want them depressing.  But then he said that he likes grim-dark fantasy!?!?!? Haha. Our discussion was actually quite nuanced, and he is definitely a deep thinker who know what he wants.  

Sounds like he will do audiobooks from the Pride and Prejudice era, because he loves those kinds.  Sound like he wants to do Northanger Abbey and Oliver Twist. (he definitely likes humor/satire)

For novels he wants to go after The Martian Chronicles, Beggars of Spain, and a grim-dark fantasy series we just found. 

Thanks guys for helping me.  As I read out the suggestions and looked them up, it helped him to identify what he actually wants!  

Have you read any Ann Pratchett?  Would something like Bel Canto appeal?  They are long though.

[8filltheheart]

18 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think sci fi does explore these issues so thoroughly because it allows us to separate them from other issues they can get mixed up with in real world stories and tackle just the abstracts concepts.

Oh, I know. I just thought it was funny that she posted he didnt like science fiction but then every title she said fit what they were looking for was science fiction.

[Lori D.]

- A Modest Proposal (Swift) -- biting satire to the English starving the Irish
- The Jungle (Sinclair) -- massively depressing, but it blew the lid off of oppressed immigrant workers in the Chicago stock yards at the turn of the 19th/20th century
- Nickel and Dimed (Ehrenreich) -- nonfiction, autobiographical; the author tries to live for a year on low-income wage jobs
- Animal Farm (Orwell) -- "fable" of Orwell's views on both Soviet communism and western capitalism
- The Time Machine (Wells) -- socialism, evolution, social classes
 

5 hours ago, lewelma said:

...he likes deep complex plots that are about human interaction...
...Sounds like he will do audiobooks from the Pride and Prejudice era, because he loves those kinds.  Sound like he wants to do Northanger Abbey and Oliver Twist. (he definitely likes humor/satire)
...For novels he wants to go after The Martian Chronicles, Beggars of Spain, and a grim-dark fantasy series we just found. 

Ah... okay, a different list then:

- Death Comes for the Deconstructionist (Taylor) -- contemporary US setting; interesting inclusion of developmentally delayed character in a group home (and fellow residents as minor characters); a "PG" / "PG-13" rating -- nothing intense or graphic; a lot of humor, ultimately uplifting
- Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency (Adams) -- Hitchhiker's Guide author, so obviously humor, and actually raises topics you could discuss
- The Friendly Persuasion (West) -- pacifist Quaker family on the edge of the Civil War
- Their Eyes Were Watching God (Hurston) -- written in/set in US Deep South 1930s; black female protagonist
- The Plover (Doyle) -- the description at Amazon pretty well sums it up; very unusual writing and poetic writing style
- The Goblin Emperor (Addison) -- yes, a fantasy setting, but MUCH more about politics and attempting to build relationships when the protagonist's position of king forcibly sets him apart from everyone

Other 19th century titles that fit in to a similar group as Northanger Abbey/Oliver Twist:
- Silas Marner (Eliot)
- Jane Eyre (Bronte)
- North and South (Gaskell)

Edited December 14, 2019 by Lori D.

[ElizabethB]

Seeds of Change: 6 plants that changed the world.

Very interesting combination of how agriculture and economics and history intertwined.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1593760493/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The follow on was also interesting, but not quite as thought provoking, Seeds of Wealth.

https://www.amazon.com/Seeds-Wealth-Four-Plants-That/dp/1593760442/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/132-9038380-5742868?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1593760442&pd_rd_r=9a7f4b01-5ff4-4c26-862e-6fa8e0cac228&pd_rd_w=S2wKF&pd_rd_wg=cZc9W&pf_rd_p=09627863-9889-4290-b90a-5e9f86682449&pf_rd_r=JZMV0PZWAPZ6S4CDN517&psc=1&refRID=JZMV0PZWAPZ6S4CDN517

Helen Keller.  There are longer versions with more info about Anne Sullivan as well.  It is really interesting to think about how her blindness and deafness reflected her view of the world.  Her tutors protected her and filtered her information and she had an innocence even as an adult because of that.  She also met many famous people, so the historical aspects are interesting.

 

[annegables]

I dont know if this would fit, but The Fog Diver and its sequel are great middle-grade dystopian fantasy. Not depressing, has lots of social commentary, fun reads, not babyish (I enjoyed them). I really liked that book and the characters. My son and I had such rich conversations about it. 

I loved Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. It is another really quick read (100 pages), but there is genetic engineering and lots of social commentary. And I felt an odd sense of accomplishment when I finished it.

SOmeone upthread recommended Hillbilly Elegy. If you go that route and want more suggestions, Janesville and Evicted are really good, but they are about socioeconomics in America.

12 hours ago, lewelma said:

So ds said that I'm mis-understanding what he likes.  It is not social-commentary, haha. Need to start a new thread! Rather he likes deep complex plots that are about human interaction. He just doesn't want them depressing.  But then he said that he likes grim-dark fantasy!?!?!? Haha. Our discussion was actually quite nuanced, and he is definitely a deep thinker who know what he wants.  

Sounds like he will do audiobooks from the Pride and Prejudice era, because he loves those kinds.  Sound like he wants to do Northanger Abbey and Oliver Twist. (he definitely likes humor/satire)

For novels he wants to go after The Martian Chronicles, Beggars of Spain, and a grim-dark fantasy series we just found. 

Thanks guys for helping me.  As I read out the suggestions and looked them up, it helped him to identify what he actually wants!  

Oh, I just saw this. Probably disregard my list, because it isnt grim-dark fantasy.

Has he read Terry Prachett and the Discworld books?

Brandon Mull's 5 Kingdoms or Fablehaven? I recommended these on your other thread:)

[daijobu]

How about non-f

19 hours ago, lewelma said:

So ds said that I'm mis-understanding what he likes.  It is not social-commentary, haha. Need to start a new thread! Rather he likes deep complex plots that are about human interaction. He just doesn't want them depressing.  But then he said that he likes grim-dark fantasy!?!?!? Haha. Our discussion was actually quite nuanced, and he is definitely a deep thinker who know what he wants.  

 

Is he open to non-fiction?  I'm enjoying The Goodness Paradox by Richard Wrangham.  It explains so much about human social behavior, and I'm learning so much about domestication syndrome, and reactive versus collaborative violence.  

[cabercro]

On 12/13/2019 at 5:11 PM, lewelma said:

 Perhaps more topics like the implications of genetic engineering, income inequality, and power.  

 

House of the Scorpion by Nancy Farmer might fit this. It's a very well done YA novel, slightly dystopian, deals with power/inequality and cloning.

[Ausmumof3]

Did anyone suggest Vanity Fair yet?