Shots needed to see baby?

[Janeway]

I think it is a ridiculous request started by the crazy people of Reddit. I would just say fine, I am not getting the shots so if you don't want your baby around me, don't bring your baby around me. And go where ever I want. Seriously, when my niece went to get married, she informed me that when she has children and I babysit, there will be no TV. I told her "who said I am going to babysit?" She stepped back and was...oh yeah. I am not interested in being controlled by some self centered know it all young person, or person of any age, using having a baby as an excuse to control others. Heck, a friend of mine, her daughter got married and when pregnant, she sent out messages, including to me who she only knows through her parents, telling us what we will buy for her baby. I just said "that's nice" and ignored it. Funny thing is, I had a gift bought because I am nice. But she sent demands that we were all only to buy from her registry and she wants Honest brand diapers and cash and so on. I had picked up a few things I saw on clearance at Neiman Marcus. Some other baby can enjoy them now. Does the relative intend to stay home with the baby if people refuse to follow her orders? Or does she plan to show up anyway and throw a tantrum that others are there and demand they leave?

 

edited to add: the illnesses a child is most at risk for are the ones that have no vaccinations.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Janeway

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, Janeway said:

I think it is a ridiculous request started by the crazy people of Reddit. I would just say fine, I am not getting the shots so if you don't want your baby around me, don't bring your baby around me. And go where ever I want. Seriously, when my niece went to get married, she informed me that when she has children and I babysit, there will be no TV. I told her "who said I am going to babysit?" She stepped back and was...oh yeah. I am not interested in being controlled by some self centered know it all young person, or person of any age, using having a baby as an excuse to control others. Heck, a friend of mine, her daughter got married and when pregnant, she sent out messages, including to me who she only knows through her parents, telling us what we will buy for her baby. I just said "that's nice" and ignored it. Funny thing is, I had a gift bought because I am nice. But she sent demands that we were all only to buy from her registry and she wants Honest brand diapers and cash and so on. I had picked up a few things I saw on clearance at Neiman Marcus. Some other baby can enjoy them now. Does the relative intend to stay home with the baby if people refuse to follow her orders? Or does she plan to show up anyway and throw a tantrum that others are there and demand they leave?

You know what is ridiculous? Equating the valid health concerns of a mom who actually KNOWS A BABY WHO DIED of whooping cough, asking that those visiting the baby be vaccinated for whooping cough in accordance with standard medical advice with someone asking you to buy a specific brand of diapers. 

If you can't see the difference there, it isn't the new mom who is being ridiculous. 

[Janeway]

2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

You know what is ridiculous? Equating the valid health concerns of a mom who actually KNOWS A BABY WHO DIED of whooping cough, asking that those visiting the baby be vaccinated for whooping cough in accordance with standard medical advice with someone asking you to buy a specific brand of diapers. 

If you can't see the difference there, it isn't the new mom who is being ridiculous. 

IF I were that concerned over it, I would not be taking my baby in to a crowded place. It is like the guy who took his child who were going through cancer treatment to Disneyland and then got upset that someone there had the Measles. His biggest concern should have been the common cold anyone could have had, which can be deadly to a child undergoing cancer treatment. I do not consider that woman's concerns to be valid, because if she were actually that concerned, she would stay home. And never take the child anywhere, not a park, not a grocery store, not anywhere. But my bets are she is only imposing her demands on her relatives and not all the people she will see in public.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Janeway

[DesertBlossom]

I mentioned it before, but the pertussis vaccine does not stop the spread of pertussis. It only keeps the vaccinated individual from having any symptoms, should they come in contact with the pertussis bacteria. Sick people usually know enough to stay away from babies. People who are asymptomatic don't. 

[ktgrok]

22 minutes ago, Janeway said:

IF I were that concerned over it, I would not be taking my baby in to a crowded place. It is like the guy who took his child who were going through cancer treatment to Disneyland and then got upset that someone there had the Measles. His biggest concern should have been the common cold anyone could have had, which can be deadly to a child undergoing cancer treatment. I do not consider that woman's concerns to be valid, because if she were actually that concerned, she would stay home. And never take the child anywhere, not a park, not a grocery store, not anywhere. But my bets are she is only imposing her demands on her relatives and not all the people she will see in public.

She's imposing the only control she can. She can't ask the world to be vaccinated (although the CDC sure does), and we don't know that she is taking the baby out places she doesn't need to go. 

[Janeway]

6 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

She's imposing the only control she can. She can't ask the world to be vaccinated (although the CDC sure does), and we don't know that she is taking the baby out places she doesn't need to go. 

She needs to accept that she might be the one who has to stay home. The question is, will she stay home or will she demand others stay away and miss Christmas? Will she use her baby to hurt others at Christmas? I have known two children who died right after shots, I had an uncle who died from a flu shot, I had a child get seriously ill after a flu shot and another get so sick she had to be hospitalized after her 12 month shots, and I have never known a single child to die from an illness that could have been prevented by a vaccination.  Sure, others have, but fact is, there is risk in life. Her baby is more likely to get sick from anyone at Christmas with a common cold. She better be prepared to not come around at Christmas rather than throw a tantrum and demand that others stay away or try to make anyone feel bad for not bending to her will. It is their bodies, their choices. People have the right to control their own bodies.  I think any narcissist who thinks having a new baby means she controls everyone and uses the baby as a weapon like that is ridiculous. And her demands likely won't end with this. 

[catz]

I feel like this may have been mentioned up thread when this originally came up, but there is a difference between being in a more intimate situation with family where people are wanting to cuddle baby, change baby, feed baby, let baby on the floor, etc and taking your baby to the mall or an amusement park for the day.  Where yep, there's a whole lot of people, but you can keep baby in a stroller, you can wash hands and face regularly, you can tell aggressive grannies to back off, you can bath baby at the end of the day.  Many docs are pushing hard on this now.  So I can understand why some mothers in some situations with maybe families that stay together sharing food and space and child care for days on end might have different feelings than if you were just meeting grandma for brunch once a month at a restaurant.  

People absolutely have the right to their own bodies. And parents have the right to decide what kind of health risks they're willing to take with a newborn/infant.  Vaccines also protect those who cannot be vaccinated.  

[mom2scouts]

Janeway, I think maybe you didn't see my post that brought this back up and you're still responding to the original post. This is my grandchild and I'll get the vaccine if it gives DIL peace of mind. Doctors and the CDC are pushing it. DIL probably won't be taking the baby to crowded places. She works at home and will be home with the baby most of the time. They come to my house for Christmas and other holidays and the family members who come for those holidays are the ones she wants to vaccinate.

ETA: I probably should have started a new s/o post instead of adding my comment to this one.

Edited March 10, 2020 by mom2scouts

[bolt.]

It's quite clear to me that asking for various considerations for their comfort -- even if they are quite specific considerations -- is not the same as demanding anything. Being specific about requests can sometimes be misread as being emphatic about them, but, it's a fairly human kindness to assume that when people say they are asking, to believe them.

I wouldn't consider this a demand.

It would also be perfectly normal for the host to be the one to decide if unvaccinated guests were welcome (meaning that the baby's family might choose not to attend) or whether the host would decline to invite people who couldn't or wouldn't choose to vaccinate for this reason. It's a bit of an awkward year for hosting, but not the end of the world. These sort of family events come around half a dozen times per year. There's no need for drama if one event during newborn months doesn't work for the whole family to gather.

[ktgrok]

Right, a concerned mother, who knows a baby that died of a disease that is one most people should be vaccinated for anyway, asking her family members to please be up to date on said vaccine since her child is too young to have the vaccine is not, just from that request, acting like a narcissist. To label her as such is...I don't even know what it is, honestly. If a family member can't be vaccinated due to medical history, that can then be discussed. No one said anything about using the baby as a weapon, or anything like that. 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

3 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

I mentioned it before, but the pertussis vaccine does not stop the spread of pertussis. It only keeps the vaccinated individual from having any symptoms, should they come in contact with the pertussis bacteria. Sick people usually know enough to stay away from babies. People who are asymptomatic don't. 

Well, not really. Middle daughter was immunocompromised and couldn't be vaccinated for Whooping Cough when she and her now husband,  who was fully vaccinated on schedule, both came down with it (lab confirmed.)   He had it first and exposed her to it. He lived in a dorm then and she lived at home.  They both had typical symptoms like a bad cold for a couple of weeks.  Each asked their doctors about restriction and quarantine and the doctors told them there weren't any. They should just go about their lives as they felt up to it. This was about 5 or 6 years ago.  In AZ Pertussis goes around every few years, but most doctors don't do lab confirmations for vaccinated people, so they'll assume it's not Whooping Cough. My ped had a lot of unvaccinated for various reasons patients, so he lab tested kids with coughs. Yeah, it's not unusual for vaccinated kids to get Whooping Cough and most pf them have no idea.

We had guests scheduled to come cover, but I let them all know what was going on so they could decide for themselves. I assume all were vaccinated but they all opted not to come over. I don't blame them.  People can decide for themselves what they want to expose themselves and their children to. Everyone has very different tolerance levels for risk.   I'm a parent of an immuno compromised kid, so I've lived with higher risk, let's just say I've seen dramatically different approaches to dealing assessing, managing,  and dealing with risk, but like I said, people should decide for themselves whenever possible.

When mine we newborns my ped specifically said to never take your child in public for the first 6 weeks unless you absolutely had to, and to not hand your baby to people. We followed that advice. Only grandparents held the baby and we were warned by him that they were the biggest threat of giving the baby Whooping Cough. We didn't insist on boosters. That risk didn't seem high enough to us to worry about. If someone else does-to each her own.

My annoying, now former, SIL came over uninvited in that time after we specifically told her we were taking absolutely no visitors due to our recent extended hospitalization when middle daughter was born during peak flu season.   I didn't care that SIL was wounded and hurt when my husband told her she couldn't come in.  The parents decide-like it or not.  Either abide by their wishes or don't see the baby. She could accuse me of whatever and call me whatever and I honestly didn't care. Shrug.  

[StaceyinLA]

On 12/9/2019 at 11:28 AM, DesertBlossom said:

To each their own, but research show that the pertussis vaccine does not stop the spread of pertussis. I think you're better off staying away from people who are actually sick than demanding that people get a booster. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24277828/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/baboon-study-reveals-new-shortcoming-of-pertussis-vaccine/

 

 

Yes! I think the push on vaccinating adults and pregnant women for this is a terrible practice. Lack of testing on pregnant women aside, asymptomatic carriers are FAR more dangerous to your baby than a well, non-vaccinated adult. 

I had the adult pertussis vaccine 6-7 years ago when my first couple grandkids were coming. I typically read and research everything, but at the time, we were thinking we were protecting the babies. I was mortified when I researched it later, and only hope now that the vaccine effects have worn off (thankfully, the pertussis vaccine does wane after a few years).

Because of this, I never really get too up close and personal with my tiny grandbabies. I’m always fairly cautious about breathing in their faces, I never kiss them on their faces, etc. I will admit to sniffing the tops of their heads a lot. Sue me! 😜

Edited March 11, 2020 by StaceyinLA

[StaceyinLA]

On 12/10/2019 at 4:26 PM, Ktgrok said:

I guess I can't imagine a loving grandparent refusing to get a flu shot and forgoing contact with their grandchild, barring medical contraindications. 

Roll their eyes, sure. But not decide they'd rather stay home than get the shot. If that is the case, the family has more issues than vaccines. 

 

Well, thankfully it’s not an issue in our family since my daughters are not flu shot proponents, but I can tell you, after watching my father die horribly from a series of illnesses that began after a flu shot, I will NEVER have one, and as much as I adore my grandchildren, I’d have to stay away.

That being said, I would also NEVER go near them with even a sniffle, unless I was absolutely certain it was an allergy (as in I know I just held my cat or something).

[Renai]

On 3/9/2020 at 3:37 PM, mom2scouts said:

I'm bringing this post back up because DS and DDIL are expecting their first baby soon. There is a big push to have everyone who will have contact with the newborn to have the Tdap. DIL sometimes goes overboard with things and she has a list of family members and their vaccination status. I think it's probably not necessary, but I'll do it because I want to see my first grandchild and I remember what it was like being a new parent. I've seen the ads showing grandma as the Big Bad Wolf and I know doctors are pushing it. DIL knows someone who's baby died due to whooping cough, so she's worried. My kids still at home had boosters at their last checkup, so they won't need anything.

When I had my youngest 9 years ago, I was told to get the tdap, as well as my oldest daughter (11 at the time) and husband. We were also encouraged to make sure that anyone else close to baby have a tdap booster as well. But I think pertussis is making it's way back here, so wanted to be more cautious. My oldest had been fully vaccinated as much as she could when she got whooping cough at the age of 2. I knew how bad we had it, so we followed along with that recommendation. 

[SKL]

I know this is an old thread and I posted in it before.

I just remembered that back when I was a kid (one of 6), my uncle (podiatrist) and his wife (nurse) had their one and only son.  I remember it being a good joke that they wouldn't visit us or be around us at all because "germs."  Finally when the kid was 2.5 they let my parents visit at their house without any of us kids.  My dad procured a surgical mask to make his point on the great occasion.  😛  (Kid had no health issues that would justify this incredible fear of "germs," nor did our family have any history of health issues.)  The kid was 4 before they paid us their one and only visit with him at our house.

What can I say ... I hope this doesn't become an issue when / if my kids have babies.  I am not a big fan of shots nor of young adults acting snotty to their parents.

[ktgrok]

20 minutes ago, SKL said:

I know this is an old thread and I posted in it before.

I just remembered that back when I was a kid (one of 6), my uncle (podiatrist) and his wife (nurse) had their one and only son.  I remember it being a good joke that they wouldn't visit us or be around us at all because "germs."  Finally when the kid was 2.5 they let my parents visit at their house without any of us kids.  My dad procured a surgical mask to make his point on the great occasion.  😛  (Kid had no health issues that would justify this incredible fear of "germs," nor did our family have any history of health issues.)  The kid was 4 before they paid us their one and only visit with him at our house.

What can I say ... I hope this doesn't become an issue when / if my kids have babies.  I am not a big fan of shots nor of young adults acting snotty to their parents.

Yes, because a concerned mother asking nicely for visitors to comply with current standard medical advice regarding vaccination boosters is "snotty". She didn't ask everyone to color coordinate or something, for crying out loud. Or wear garlic around their neck. 

[ktgrok]

And although pertussis is a tricky one regarding vaccination and transmission, compared to viral disease, a very quick google search found studies showing that vaccinating the adults in close contact with an infant under 6 months reduced the risk of the baby catching pertussis by 51%. Which even if not the full story, sure does seem like a good benefit, given how serious the disease is in that age group. 

Others may disagree, but given that we have at least some evidence that having those in close contact be vaccinated according to reccomended guidelines can cut the risk of her infant catching a potentially deadly disease in half, I don't think it is appropriate to be acting like she  is some kind of ridiculous drama queen. Her position is entirely reasonable. 

[hjffkj]

Things like this make me uncomfortable only because I find it inappropriate to ask about people's medical history, which vaccination history fits under.  

[ktgrok]

11 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

Things like this make me uncomfortable only because I find it inappropriate to ask about people's medical history, which vaccination history fits under.  

I'd definitely only do it with close family! But my family discusses medical stuff anyway. We all know who had what cosmetic surgery, pelvic surgery, my bariatric surgery, etc etc. 

[SKL]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Yes, because a concerned mother asking nicely for visitors to comply with current standard medical advice regarding vaccination boosters is "snotty". She didn't ask everyone to color coordinate or something, for crying out loud. Or wear garlic around their neck. 

Is she also willing to listen to and consider reasonable explanations for why the grandparent prefers not to get the shot?

If it's someone more distant like an aunt/uncle who isn't very close, I would put it more in the category of waiting until my own child has the whooping cough vax before exposing her to a lot of people.  IMO grandparents are different.  There is a normal assumption that grandma wants the baby to be safe too and also hopefully isn't stupid.

Maybe it's because young people these days haven't themselves had many occasions to hold others' babies.  When I was young, I held tons of babies without having to pass some kind of screening.  It would be ridiculous for me to demand different requirements for my own babies.  Have today's new mothers never held another's child?

[ktgrok]

4 hours ago, SKL said:

Is she also willing to listen to and consider reasonable explanations for why the grandparent prefers not to get the shot?

If it's someone more distant like an aunt/uncle who isn't very close, I would put it more in the category of waiting until my own child has the whooping cough vax before exposing her to a lot of people.  IMO grandparents are different.  There is a normal assumption that grandma wants the baby to be safe too and also hopefully isn't stupid.

Maybe it's because young people these days haven't themselves had many occasions to hold others' babies.  When I was young, I held tons of babies without having to pass some kind of screening.  It would be ridiculous for me to demand different requirements for my own babies.  Have today's new mothers never held another's child?

I would certainly hope she'd be willing to listen and discuss any reasons, and then make whatever decision she feels is safest for her child. And the grandparent should be willing to listen and discuss the mother's reasons as well. For sure, two way street, where hopefully some resolution is reached that everyone is comfortable with. 

As for the second bit I bolded, well I rode in cars without carseats and seatbelts as a kid, it would be ridiculous for me to demand a different standard for my own babies sounds silly, right? When we know better, we do better. Now, there can be a discussion as to the actual science, and intelligent people may differ, but "that's how we did it back then" isn't really a logical reason for anything. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Ktgrok

[SKL]

8 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I would certainly hope she'd be willing to listen and discuss any reasons, and then make whatever decision she feels is safest for her child. And the grandparent should be willing to listen and discuss the mother's reasons as well. For sure, two way street, where hopefully some resolution is reached that everyone is comfortable with. 

As for the second bit I bolded, well I rode in cars without carseats and seatbelts as a kid, it would be ridiculous for me to demand a different standard for my own babies sounds silly, right? When we know better, we do better. Now, there can be a discussion as to the actual science, and intelligent people may differ, but "that's how we did it back then" isn't really a logical reason for anything. 

I knew I was gonna get "when we know better, we do better" from someone.

But how it comes across to me in this case is "well when it's everyone else's kid, whatever, but for my kid, only the best."

 

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, SKL said:

I knew I was gonna get "when we know better, we do better" from someone.

But how it comes across to me in this case is "well when it's everyone else's kid, whatever, but for my kid, only the best."

 

That would only be true if the person had previously been aware of the recommendation and chose to ignore it and hold babies, versus not knowing about the recommendation until their own pediatrician brought it up.