Mr. Rogers - question for those from dysfunctional families

[gardenmom5]

were you aware of him growing up? watch/etc.

how did he make you feel? did you connect?  did you feel isolated? 

[Shoeless]

Yes, I watched Mr. Rogers.  

I kind of watched him on the sly. I really liked him and I really wanted more people like him in my world.  I knew that if my mom or stepfather saw me watch Mr. Rogers, they'd have something shitty to say about it, so I watched him in secret.

I didn't feel isolated, but I kind of felt like an outsider.  I felt like nice people like Mr. Rogers were really meant for other kids, not for me.  I felt kind of envious of that imaginary world. 

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I loved Mr. Rogers, but like MissLemon, I watched him on the sly.  I had four brothers who teased me incessantly. Everyone in my social world seemed to mock Mr. Rogers (imitate his speech and mannerisms). But, I found him peaceful and predictable, and I liked that. We were latchkey kids, and I watched TV every day after school.  Mr. Rogers was part of my line up (along with Zoom and The Electric Company).

[HomeAgain]

I felt like Mr. Rogers was a tv show.  He was nice and kind and a perfectly lovely character.  There was no feeling that his world was real.

[Guest]

Mr. Rogers was so heavily mocked by others in my world, I don’t think I ever saw an entire episode from start to finish. I do remember I didn’t like the puppets as a child. I didn’t really know what the show was about until adulthood. I also didn’t watch much TV anyway; we only had one TV and one of my sisters dominated what we would watch until my dad came home from work and he dominated to TV until bedtime. 

I saw the movie, btw, and wept. I wish I had watched the show as a kid because I really did need help with my feelings. 

[Sneezyone]

I loved Mr. Rogers and all things PBS growing up. I loved the train to the land of make believe, I loved the guests, I loved his sweater and homey feel. He reminded me of my grandpa and talked like him too. Growing up in the rainy northwest, I always loved coming home to watch Mr. Rogers with a cup of hot chocolate in hand. DOH. I probably shouldn’t have responded. My family didn’t go haywire until I was in middle school.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Sneezyone

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, Suzanne in ABQ said:

I loved Mr. Rogers, but like MissLemon, I watched him on the sly.  I had four brothers who teased me incessantly. Everyone in my social world seemed to mock Mr. Rogers (imitate his speech and mannerisms). But, I found him peaceful and predictable, and I liked that. We were latchkey kids, and I watched TV every day after school.  Mr. Rogers was part of my line up (along with Zoom and The Electric Company).

 

2 hours ago, Quill said:

Mr. Rogers was so heavily mocked by others in my world, I don’t think I ever saw an entire episode from start to finish. I do remember I didn’t like the puppets as a child. I didn’t really know what the show was about until adulthood. I also didn’t watch much TV anyway; we only had one TV and one of my sisters dominated what we would watch until my dad came home from work and he dominated to TV until bedtime. 

I saw the movie, btw, and wept. I wish I had watched the show as a kid because I really did need help with my feelings. 

Until reading these replies I had no idea anyone on the planet made fun of Mr. Rogers! I'm so so sorry you lived in a reality where that was the case. 

[scholastica]

I loved Mr Rogers but I don’t think he made a difference in my life in the way he intended. Watching him didn’t change the day to day reality of our home, it was just a peaceful escape. We were in a dysfunctional, but I wouldn’t say abusive or neglectful family. I especially loved the Land of Make Believe. 

The longer I live, the less I feel like there are any families who aren’t dysfunctional to some degree. Families are made up of people, people are broken and messy. We all bring stuff to our families that is less than healthy and all that influences how we interact with each other. 

[Pawz4me]

11 minutes ago, scholastica said:

 

The longer I live, the less I feel like there are any families who aren’t dysfunctional to some degree. Families are made up of people, people are broken and messy. We all bring stuff to our families that is less than healthy and all that influences how we interact with each other. 

Ditto. I have no memory at all of watching Mr. Rogers as a child and so couldn't comment on that. But in reading this thread I started wondering if there's anyone who doesn't believe their family was at least somewhat dysfunctional.

[barnwife]

22 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Until reading these replies I had no idea anyone on the planet made fun of Mr. Rogers! I'm so so sorry you lived in a reality where that was the case. 

This was also my reaction to the replies here. To those who were in that situation, I am sorry.

[HS Mom in NC]

Yes, I watched him daily while my Grandmother baby sat me.  My parents divorced when I was a baby. I watched him from toddlerhood to when I started school at 5.

I'm not a particularly emotive person, I'm much more an analytic type, but the show was entertaining and he was a friendly guy. My grandmother loved him and my dysfunctional mother rolled her eyes at what she called his "sicky sweet" saccharine show.  I was never the kind of kid to be discouraged from watching it because of a parental attitude. I've always been famously independent and self-motivated from an early age among those who knew me. My first words were, "No! I do it!" (I didn't speak in single words, I was a later talker who started with sentences.)

[Garga]

My family wasn’t overly dysfunctional.  I don’t remember watching Mr. Rogers when I was a small child, but I very well might have, but have been to young to remember.  I remember that when I hit about middle school, the kids at school would make fun of Mr. Rogers and it continued until high school, and I was influenced by that and figured he was some sort of weirdo. (Gah, that hurts to type now that I know better.)

A few years ago, we were on a car trip and my dh got an audiobook biography of Mr. Rogers.  In it, it talked a lot about how much he would help people who watched the show—but not necessarily just the kids, but adults who watched the show with their kids.  They would write to him and say that they put on the show for their kids, but they themselves would watch and find peace and comfort from watching and that he had helped them.  I think at least one person watched without even having kids, because Mr. Rogers helped him/her so much (I think.).  I remember just loving that man after hearing that audiobook and wishing I could go back in time to be a child and watch the show every day.

I guess I shouldn’t respond since I’m not from a properly dysfunctional family, just from your regular run-of-the-mill dysfunctional family.  But I couldn’t hep myself from chiming in to say that even adults found comfort from watching Mr. Rogers.  

Edited December 1, 2019 by Garga

[maize]

28 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Ditto. I have no memory at all of watching Mr. Rogers as a child and so couldn't comment on that. But in reading this thread I started wondering if there's anyone who doesn't believe their family was at least somewhat dysfunctional.

 

I don't think any family is perfect, and certainly mine wasn't, but no I don't think it was dysfunctional. There's messiness associated with life, people's worst traits come out under stress, parents don't have crystal balls to see how their actions will ultimately impact their kids, siblings are immature and interact in immature ways. 

Making allowance for all that, my family were and are pretty great. My parents loved each other and loved us kids and tried hard to be good parents. My siblings as adults are my favorite people in the world. 

[HS Mom in NC]

40 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

 But in reading this thread I started wondering if there's anyone who doesn't believe their family was at least somewhat dysfunctional.

I think it's become trendy to use the term dysfunctional for normal family dynamics challenges. People should stop doing that.  Dysfunction is a very serious thing and has a real impact on people.  Yes, humans are social creatures by nature, but people labeling themselves as as from dysfunctional families when they're not just to be a part of something or as an act of sympathy doesn't accomplish anything positive or useful. It just demonstrates that they don't really grasp the magnitude of it.

[Xahm]

46 minutes ago, scholastica said:

 

The longer I live, the less I feel like there are any families who aren’t dysfunctional to some degree. Families are made up of people, people are broken and messy. We all bring stuff to our families that is less than healthy and all that influences how we interact with each other. 

I started to think this, then I married a police officer and I hear the saddest of stories, and I can't claim that anything I experienced compares. Not just abuse things, but people calling the police in their son for violently destroying the house and dh rolls up with back up and finds out the son is five and had dumped his chicken nuggets on the floor. I hope that kid has Mr Rogers or Daniel Tiger to show him a glimpse of regular life and teach him to manage his emotions because the adults in his life clearly didn't. My dh stayed for about an hour and taught some deep breathing to the kid and talked with the parents about more effective parenting strategies (their method for when he yelled was to yell louder so he could still hear them yelling at him). He does a lot of that kind of thing while policing, and there are so many families where no one knows what to do with emotions at all. Some of them turn abusive and more just continue a cycle of dysfunction, often criminal dysfunction, that likely mirrors what some here have experienced and that others of us can barely imagine. 

[Guest]

I was a disabled, 2e kid with a stable family, so not dysfunctional, but some extra stresses. I remember Mr. Rogers being comforting, but that, like Sesame Street,  you didn’t admit to watching it past about age 6 or so. And yes, it was definitely something that older kids made fun of-when I was working at a daycare center, it struck me that a lot of the comments about Barney were very similar to those about Mr. Rogers-that little kids loved Barney, and Barney actually taught a lot of nice life lessons about emotional regulation and imagination and social skills, but that it seemed like as soon as kids hit about age 5, they’d get the message that it wasn’t for them anymore. And, that, oddly, the most common taunt “it's not real" was exactly what both shows really stressed-that there is reality and imaginative play,and imagination is just as important.  Honestly, a lot of the shows intended for elementary kids were far more unreal than the kingdom of make believe or Barney coming to play from the kids' imaginations. 

 

One thing I loved about homeschooling was that my DD kept the morning preschool shows much longer because she didn't get the message that big kids can't watch PBSKids anymore.  And, in fact, we were at a homeschool "not back to school" lunch at a pizza and games place with multiple rooms snowing different things, and the kids picked the one showing Paw Patrol. Only one younger sibling was actually in the Paw Patrol demographic, but the 10+ bunch seemed to thoroughly enjoy it. 

Edited December 1, 2019 by dmmetler

[Quercus]

I grew up in an abusive home. I knew of Mr. Rogers but wasn't interested in watching it, for no particular reason. Not because he made me feel isolated, or included, or anything. Kids made fun of me for being extremely poor. If they had deigned to make fun of me for a show I watched, I would have considered it a relief. 

I don't understand the premise of the question to be honest. Why would kids with dysfunctional families as a group have different response to an innocuous show than other kids? 

 

[unsinkable]

31 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

I think it's become trendy to use the term dysfunctional for normal family dynamics challenges. People should stop doing that.  Dysfunction is a very serious thing and has a real impact on people.  Yes, humans are social creatures by nature, but people labeling themselves as as from dysfunctional families when they're not just to be a part of something or as an act of sympathy doesn't accomplish anything positive or useful. It just demonstrates that they don't really grasp the magnitude of it.

I'm not the dysfunctional family gatekeeper.

Back in the day, dysfunction was kept secret as much as possible, until it spilled over into the community...visible injuries, police at the house, arrests, stories in the papers, public abuse, fights and drunkenness, kids being removed and going to live elsewhere...

Dysfunction wasn't admitted/acknowledged. 

All that being said, I think it is also a case of that the  hidden/secret/don't tell culture (not a good word choice but I can't think of another) is changing.

[Pippen]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Until reading these replies I had no idea anyone on the planet made fun of Mr. Rogers! I'm so so sorry you lived in a reality where that was the case. 

I didn't connect. I didn't like the puppets or his voice, and even when I was young, I felt like he was talking down to me. 

I remember as preteens/young teens making fun of Mr. Rogers in the same way we might have poked fun at characters on Gilligan's Island or Sesame Street or Hogan's Heroes or any other TV show.  I grew up in a seriously dysfunctional family and humor was a helpful coping mechanism, so there's that, but I think we probably would have done it anyway.  I think mocking Mr. Rogers was a widespread cultural thing--SNL with Mr. Robinson's Neighborhood, late night comedy, etc. 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

23 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

I'm not the dysfunctional family gatekeeper.

Back in the day, dysfunction was kept secret as much as possible, until it spilled over into the community...visible injuries, police at the house, arrests, stories in the papers, public abuse, fights and drunkenness, kids being removed and going to live elsewhere...

Dysfunction wasn't admitted/acknowledged. 

All that being said, I think it is also a case of that the  hidden/secret/don't tell culture (not a good word choice but I can't think of another) is changing.

I'm not looking for a gatekeeper or to be one.  I'm warning people who are thoughtlessly adding themselves to the dysfunctional families group that they will likely achieve the opposite result they're looking for.  It's a friendly fair warning.  Whenever people equate their trivial, normal experiences with something that is serious and abnormal, they create distance, not intimacy. They show they clearly don't get it, which is the opposite of what they intended.

That's a completely different topic than keeping dysfunction a secret.

[unsinkable]

6 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

I'm not looking for a gatekeeper or to be one.  I'm warning people who are thoughtlessly adding themselves to the dysfunctional families group that they will likely achieve the opposite result they're looking for.  It's a friendly fair warning.  Whenever people equate their trivial, normal experiences with something that is serious and abnormal, they create distance, not intimacy. They show they clearly don't get it, which is the opposite of what they intended.

That's a completely different topic than keeping dysfunction a secret.

Depending on people's age, they might not be capable of telling the truth about their foo's dysfunction.

A 50, 60, 70 yo woman grew up in a completely era than today's put it out there culture.

[Pawz4me]

1 minute ago, unsinkable said:

Depending on people's age, they might not be capable of telling the truth about their foo's dysfunction.

A 50, 60, 70 yo woman grew up in a completely era than today's put it out there culture.

I'm in that age range, and from my POV it's not an issue of truth telling, or being able to face the truth. It seems to me that what many people deem dysfunctional nowadays was considered very normal then. So societal change has to come into the discussion. Can behavior that was normal then be deemed dysfunctional retroactively? IDK, just musing. By today's standards my childhood would have been dysfunctional. I saw it as pretty normal.

[HomeAgain]

14 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

I'm not looking for a gatekeeper or to be one.  I'm warning people who are thoughtlessly adding themselves to the dysfunctional families group that they will likely achieve the opposite result they're looking for.  It's a friendly fair warning.  Whenever people equate their trivial, normal experiences with something that is serious and abnormal, they create distance, not intimacy. They show they clearly don't get it, which is the opposite of what they intended.

That's a completely different topic than keeping dysfunction a secret.

And on the flip side, nobody has to defend or explain their family's dysfunction in anything other than what they want to share, especially in terms like this where you may be tempted to make others understand the severity and legitimize your use of the term. 

[maize]

32 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

I'm not looking for a gatekeeper or to be one.  I'm warning people who are thoughtlessly adding themselves to the dysfunctional families group that they will likely achieve the opposite result they're looking for.  It's a friendly fair warning.  Whenever people equate their trivial, normal experiences with something that is serious and abnormal, they create distance, not intimacy. They show they clearly don't get it, which is the opposite of what they intended.

That's a completely different topic than keeping dysfunction a secret.

 

I agree with this.

The idea that all families are dysfunctional equates normal imperfect family dynamics with truly harmful and abusive family dynamics. That dilutes understanding and diminishes our ability to even communicate about true dysfunction.

I grew up in a normal imperfect family. I had never even imagined the kinds of deep dysfunction some on this board describe until I started learning about them as an adult.

A family doesn't have to be perfect to be functional, to be good enough. 

ETA I'm not trying to tell anyone else their family was or wasn't dysfunctional, I'm arguing against the idea that because all families are imperfect, all families are dysfunctional

Edited December 1, 2019 by maize

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Garga said:

My family wasn’t overly dysfunctional.  I don’t remember watching Mr. Rogers when I was a small child, but I very well might have, but have been to young to remember.  I remember that when I hit about middle school, the kids at school would make fun of Mr. Rogers and it continued until high school, and I was influenced by that and figured he was some sort of weirdo. (Gah, that hurts to type now that I know better.)

A few years ago, we were on a car trip and my dh got an audiobook biography of Mr. Rogers.  In it, it talked a lot about how much he would help people who watched the show—but not necessarily just the kids, but adults who watched the show with their kids.  They would write to him and say that they put on the show for their kids, but they themselves would watch and find peace and comfort from watching and that he had helped them.  I think at least one person watched without even having kids, because Mr. Rogers helped him/her so much (I think.).  I remember just loving that man after hearing that audiobook and wishing I could go back in time to be a child and watch the show every day.

I guess I shouldn’t respond since I’m not from a properly dysfunctional family, just from your regular run-of-the-mill dysfunctional family.  But I couldn’t hep myself from chiming in to say that even adults found comfort from watching Mr. Rogers.  

I had the same reaction to reading a biography of Mr. Rogers (presumably the same one), and I felt this way about the movie, too. 

In the movie, one of the big take-aways for me is where Mr. Rogers (Tom Hanks) is telling the magazine writer that, even if his dad was not a very good father, he still shaped him, he still contributed to who he became. He didn’t say it in exactly those words, but that was just a stunning thing to sit with for me. It really made me think about bad things that I have been through and how I can still be grateful for something, even if I wish the experience had been different. The bad things shaped me, too. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, dmmetler said:

I was a disabled, 2e kid with a stable family, so not dysfunctional, but some extra stresses. I remember Mr. Rogers being comforting, but that, like Sesame Street,  you didn’t admit to watching it past about age 6 or so. And yes, it was definitely something that older kids made fun of-when I was working at a daycare center, it struck me that a lot of the comments about Barney were very similar to those about Mr. Rogers-that little kids loved Barney, and Barney actually taught a lot of nice life lessons about emotional regulation and imagination and social skills, but that it seemed like as soon as kids hit about age 5, they’d get the message that it wasn’t for them anymore. And, that, oddly, the most common taunt “it's not real" was exactly what both shows really stressed-that there is reality and imaginative play,and imagination is just as important.  Honestly, a lot of the shows intended for elementary kids were far more unreal than the kingdom of make believe or Barney coming to play from the kids' imaginations. 

 

One thing I loved about homeschooling was that my DD kept the morning preschool shows much longer because she didn't get the message that big kids can't watch PBSKids anymore.  And, in fact, we were at a homeschool "not back to school" lunch at a pizza and games place with multiple rooms snowing different things, and the kids picked the one showing Paw Patrol. Only one younger sibling was actually in the Paw Patrol demographic, but the 10+ bunch seemed to thoroughly enjoy it. 

I considered this a big asset of homeschooling as well. I remember my dd’s 6yo cousin scorning Dora the Explorer and I was thinking, “Well I’m sure glad dd doesn’t know she’s ‘too old’ for Clifford the Big Red Dog or Sagwa.” 

Good point about Barney; i forgot about that but yes, scorn for Barney once kids were about six was rampant. 

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

.But in reading this thread I started wondering if there's anyone who doesn't believe their family was at least somewhat dysfunctional.

I don't. I believe my family was highly functional; even looking back as an adult, I cannot identify any dysfunction. Life was not perfect; there were stressors, such as living in the crumbling economy of a totalitarian regime and having a severely developmentally disabled sibling, but my parents are good at handling life and have fairly healthy ways to deal with stress.

ETA: I do not consider a stressed out mom yelling "dysfunctional". That would be cheapening the experience of people who had real trauma. Imperfect and dysfunctional are really two different beasts.

Edited December 1, 2019 by regentrude

[Lady Florida.]

I was too old for Mr. Rogers. By the time it began nationally in the U.S. I was a pre-teen. Romper Room was my kiddie show. I had no idea that Romper Room ran until the mid 1990s. I came from a single parent family which, while not dysfunctional caused us to be ostracized due to 1. The era when divorce was shameful. 2. The fact that we were Catholic, which made the shameful divorce of my parents even worse according to our social circle and family.

When I think of Mr. Rogers being made fun of I think of SNL and Mr. Robinson's Neighborhood.  **WARNING** Mild language and implied domestic violence (brief)

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by Lady Florida.

[Farrar]

Yeah, I'm not sure how to answer this. There are aspects of my family that are dysfunctional. My parents divorced, my mother struggled as a single parent to make ends meet, my brother grew up with less stability than me. And now my mom is difficult to deal with sometimes... she can be... well, she can be great, but she can also lash out very unexpectedly and be very unfair - she and my brother are a mess together. And she has very strained relationships with her extended family now, thus I do as well. But on the other hand, I never questioned I was loved, my parents both did wonderful things for me and continued to support me as an adult and a parent in my choices, and I was definitely never abused or anything like it, nor did my parents allow others to act abusively toward me or my brother.

Families are complicated.

I did grow up watching Mr. Rogers and I felt very much like his message was for me and my mother often echoed it in various ways. I don't know that my brother did grow up watching it... he's much younger and it wasn't on as often. He did watch a lot of Sesame Street. I doubt he feels like Mr. Rogers's messages were for him... he would say our family is dysfunctional straight out.

ETA: In fact, my mom and I went to see the Mr. Rogers documentary together last year for her birthday and we both cried. It was very sweet.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Farrar

[unsinkable]

1 hour ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

I'm not looking for a gatekeeper or to be one.  I'm warning people who are thoughtlessly adding themselves to the dysfunctional families group that they will likely achieve the opposite result they're looking for.  It's a friendly fair warning.  Whenever people equate their trivial, normal experiences with something that is serious and abnormal, they create distance, not intimacy. They show they clearly don't get it, which is the opposite of what they intended.

That's a completely different topic than keeping dysfunction a secret.

I'd appreciate some examples of "trivial, normal experiences" that people are equating with "something that is serious and abnormal. "

[sweet2ndchance]

36 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Can behavior that was normal then be deemed dysfunctional retroactively?

I'm going to say yes, based on my experience. My parents were abusive but I never realized how abusive until I was able to get out from under their control and see that not everyone lived the way I did as a child. In order to keep us under their control, they had to keep us extremely sheltered. We weren't allowed to go to friend's houses to play. There were quite a few kids we weren't even allowed to be caught talking to because, I realize now, it was a threat to the dysfunctional level of control my parents wanted to have over our lives. It was only once I was able to get out of their grip as an adult that I realized that my parents weren't just super strict, they were controlling and abusive in ways I didn't even realize because I didn't know until then that most parents don't do the things my parents did.

When I was an older teen/young adult, I would have told you my parents were strict bordering on abusive and I didn't want to be anything like them as a parent. Now, as a middle aged/older adult, I would tell you my FOO is/was very dysfunctional and abusive because I've now had enough time to experience the world and see how other people do things without my parents constantly hovering over me and realize just how abnormal my childhood was. 

 

[sweet2ndchance]

I didn't like Mr. Rogers as a kid and I'm still not a fan. I've shown my kids clips of Mr. Rogers, like the clip of how they make crayons, and my youngest likes Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood and I have no  problem with that. But, please don't shoot me, Mr. Rogers himself always felt creepy to me. Like if I met him in person as a kid, I would have been afraid of him. Now, I imagine that is because he was genuinely a nice person with no agenda. I still have trouble as an adult understanding that not everyone who is nice to me has an agenda or is trying to manipulate me in someway because I had to learn to survive in a house as a child with emotionally abusive parents. 

I also agree with everyone about one of the benefits of homeschooling is getting to let them be kids longer and watch PBS and other kids shows that are wholesome and good without fear of being teased. My almost 7 year old son was watching Little Bear this morning by his own choice. And he was talking about how he would like to go on a fishing trip with Father Bear and Little Bear. He loves Wild Kratts and Curious George and Clifford and Paw Patrol and Puppy Dog Pals. I love that homeschooled kids don't feel they have to choose their interests based on their peers interests. I saw the same thing when my older kids were youngest ds's age and I loved it then too.

[BakersDozen]

The times I was lucky enough to catch Mr. Rogers on TV (my siblings dominated and chose other shows/cartoons) I remember watching his eyes and his smile. I do believe his face was the only truly kind one I saw as a kid and I was fascinated. His gentle voice was a mystery to me - people didn't talk that way in my house, especially to kids. I think Mr. Rogers was what I wanted to experience as far as adults interacting with me/my siblings.

Oddly enough, I couldn't stand the Land of Make Believe. I was always relieved when trolley returned to Mr. Rogers' home. And I still get teary-eyed when I hear him sing, "Do you know...do you know...do you know that it's OK to wonder?" or "It's you I like."

Guess he represents to me everything gentle, kind, loving and peaceful, which is what I want my children's home life to be (because mine sure as heck was not).

[Pippen]

16 minutes ago, BakersDozen said:

The times I was lucky enough to catch Mr. Rogers on TV (my siblings dominated and chose other shows/cartoons) I remember watching his eyes and his smile. I do believe his face was the only truly kind one I saw as a kid and I was fascinated. His gentle voice was a mystery to me - people didn't talk that way in my house, especially to kids. I think Mr. Rogers was what I wanted to experience as far as adults interacting with me/my siblings.

Oddly enough, I couldn't stand the Land of Make Believe. I was always relieved when trolley returned to Mr. Rogers' home. And I still get teary-eyed when I hear him sing, "Do you know...do you know...do you know that it's OK to wonder?" or "It's you I like."

Guess he represents to me everything gentle, kind, loving and peaceful, which is what I want my children's home life to be (because mine sure as heck was not).

I couldn't stand the Land of Make Believe either. 

[Farrar]

I loved the land of make believe! But as a kid, I often played that I was in various make believe places for hours by myself.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Farrar

[Pippen]

2 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I loved the land of make believe! But as a kid, I often played that I was in various make believe places for hours by myself.

So did I, alone and with siblings and friends. I just didn't like Mr. Roger's Land of Make Believe. 

[MaBelle]

Love Mister Rogers, don't like the puppets.

 

[Farrar]

2 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

There are still mean, ignorant people making fun of him

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/D32574A2-1080-11EA-85D4-60AAFD0978F5

Gross.

This is what people mean when they talk about toxic masculinity. There’s nothing wrong with either of those men’s masculinity. But telling boys that kindness and listening aren’t masculine poisons all of us. Telling boys there’s only one way tobe masculine is hurtful to our kids.

[regentrude]

16 minutes ago, Farrar said:

 There’s nothing wrong with either of those men’s masculinity.

Oh, I think there's a lot wrong with John Wayne's brand of masculinity. Masculinity does not require being a racist homophobe.

Edited December 1, 2019 by regentrude

[HS Mom in NC]

2 hours ago, unsinkable said:

I'd appreciate some examples of "trivial, normal experiences" that people are equating with "something that is serious and abnormal. "

Let's be clear first.  Are you suggesting that every family is in some way dysfunctional?  Some people are.  I'm saying they're wrong about that.  Every family is not dysfunctional in some way.  As stated above, saying so is completely missing the point about dysfunction and its life long affect on children.  That's the core of the issue. 

Either:
1. All families are dysfunctional in some way.
Or
2. Some families are dysfunctional and others are not.

The point I'm making is #2 is true and #1 is false.  Taking position #1 means not recognizing reality.  People who are not from actual dysfunctional families claiming position #1 or miscategorizing normal, flawed, poor interaction at times as dysfunctional are dismissing and demeaning actual dysfunction.

It's the people I hear equating their mother's round about, indirect approach to addressing uncomfortable issues; their father's occasional outbursts of frustration in difficult circumstances;  their ongoing sibling squabbles over attention, communal property, vacation destinations; their dispute over who inherits the grandfather clock in the absence of a written will, etc. are the people I'm talking about.  Just because it's interpersonal conflict doesn't necessarily mean it's dysfunction.  There are variations on those themes that are symptomatic truly dysfunctional family dynamics, but typical, occasional, interpersonal conflict isn't the same as dysfunction. I think there is a trend right now for people to equate inevitable, normal interpersonal conflict with dysfunction.

[KungFuPanda]

45 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Let's be clear first.  Are you suggesting that every family is in some way dysfunctional?  Some people are.  I'm saying they're wrong about that.  Every family is not dysfunctional in some way.  As stated above, saying so is completely missing the point about dysfunction and its life long affect on children.  That's the core of the issue. 

Either:
1. All families are dysfunctional in some way.
Or
2. Some families are dysfunctional and others are not.

The point I'm making is #2 is true and #1 is false.  Taking position #1 means not recognizing reality.  People who are not from actual dysfunctional families claiming position #1 or miscategorizing normal, flawed, poor interaction at times as dysfunctional are dismissing and demeaning actual dysfunction.

It's the people I hear equating their mother's round about, indirect approach to addressing uncomfortable issues; their father's occasional outbursts of frustration in difficult circumstances;  their ongoing sibling squabbles over attention, communal property, vacation destinations; their dispute over who inherits the grandfather clock in the absence of a written will, etc. are the people I'm talking about.  Just because it's interpersonal conflict doesn't necessarily mean it's dysfunction.  There are variations on those themes that are symptomatic truly dysfunctional family dynamics, but typical, occasional, interpersonal conflict isn't the same as dysfunction. I think there is a trend right now for people to equate inevitable, normal interpersonal conflict with dysfunction.

I'm inclined to take people at their word if they say they grew up in a dysfunctional family.  They certainly don't have to PROVE anything to me before I'm comfortable with them defining their own reality that way and there are degrees of dysfunction.  Families are BIG if you don't limit the definition to your own household.  It's not a stretch that most contain a person or two or a relationship or two that sabotages the function of their own home and sends ripples throughout the entire family.  Some families live closer than others so your own completely functional household is effected by these people.  Dysfunctional relationships can definitely lead to increased incidents of  the interpersonal conflicts you listed above.  Diseases cause symptoms and not every symptom is catastrophic.  It doesn't discount that the disease is present. It's not something anyone WANTS to live with, so I really don't get accusing people of using the label frivolously when you have no way of knowing what they've experienced. 

[Shoeless]

35 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I'm inclined to take people at their word if they say they grew up in a dysfunctional family.  They certainly don't have to PROVE anything to me before I'm comfortable with them defining their own reality that way and there are degrees of dysfunction.  Families are BIG if you don't limit the definition to your own household.  It's not a stretch that most contain a person or two or a relationship or two that sabotages the function of their own home and sends ripples throughout the entire family.  Some families live closer than others so your own completely functional household is effected by these people.  Dysfunctional relationships can definitely lead to increased incidents of  the interpersonal conflicts you listed above.  Diseases cause symptoms and not every symptom is catastrophic.  It doesn't discount that the disease is present. It's not something anyone WANTS to live with, so I really don't get accusing people of using the label frivolously when you have no way of knowing what they've experienced. 

I don't think Homeschool mom in AZ is trying to gatekeep and tell people they are using the dysfunctional term incorrectly. Someone else up thread said "every family is dysfunctional" and it is now trendy to claim you are from a dysfunctional family.  I think Homeschool mom in AZ is pushing back on that idea because it is dismissive of people who grew up in really messed up families. 

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

I don't think Homeschool mom in AZ is trying to gatekeep and tell people they are using the dysfunctional term incorrectly. Someone else up thread said "every family is dysfunctional" and it is now trendy to claim you are from a dysfunctional family.  I think Homeschool mom in AZ is pushing back on that idea because it is dismissive of people who grew up in really messed up families. 

Is it actually trendy? Really? I think it's more likely that it's more socially acceptable to admit these things.  People used to be more reluctant out of loyalty or embarrassment to "air dirty laundry" or own up to mental illness in their family tree.  I think it's really strange to accuse people of embellishing the truth about this because it's the "in" thing.  Granted, some families are more . . . everything than others, but it's not really a competition.  

I read Educated.  That was some Grade A dysfunction.  I don't think that means a family has to be THAT dangerously messed up in order to not function in a normal, healthy way.

[Tanaqui]

3 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

It's the people I hear equating their mother's round about, indirect approach to addressing uncomfortable issues; their father's occasional outbursts of frustration in difficult circumstances;  their ongoing sibling squabbles over attention, communal property, vacation destinations; their dispute over who inherits the grandfather clock in the absence of a written will, etc. are the people I'm talking about.  Just because it's interpersonal conflict doesn't necessarily mean it's dysfunction.  There are variations on those themes that are symptomatic truly dysfunctional family dynamics, but typical, occasional, interpersonal conflict isn't the same as dysfunction. I think there is a trend right now for people to equate inevitable, normal interpersonal conflict with dysfunction.

 

Maybe some of those people are only talking about these few things because the deeper things are too hard to talk about, especially around people who are going to blithely respond that claiming dysfunction is trendy.

[gardenmom5]

 

11 hours ago, Quill said:

Mr. Rogers was so heavily mocked by others in my world, I don’t think I ever saw an entire episode from start to finish. I do remember I didn’t like the puppets as a child. I didn’t really know what the show was about until adulthood. I also didn’t watch much TV anyway; we only had one TV and one of my sisters dominated what we would watch until my dad came home from work and he dominated to TV until bedtime. 

I saw the movie, btw, and wept. I wish I had watched the show as a kid because I really did need help with my feelings. 

At times I've wondered if it would have made a difference.

it started in 1962.  I loved the flyover of the town at the beginning, and I could have watched that for hours.  I liked the trolley, etc.  didn't like the land of make-believe.  

when he'd be talking to the camera - because he felt he was talking to his viewers - I  felt left out.  that I couldn't be part of that demographic.   and what good did it do for someone on TV to say they liked me when my life was the opposite?

7 hours ago, Quercus said:

I grew up in an abusive home. I knew of Mr. Rogers but wasn't interested in watching it, for no particular reason. Not because he made me feel isolated, or included, or anything. Kids made fun of me for being extremely poor. If they had deigned to make fun of me for a show I watched, I would have considered it a relief. 

I don't understand the premise of the question to be honest. Why would kids with dysfunctional families as a group have different response to an innocuous show than other kids? 

 

maybe I should have stressed it more on the abusive side of dysfunction.  because those of use who grew up in an abusive home frequently had an unhealthy view of our worth.

6 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

I'm not looking for a gatekeeper or to be one.  I'm warning people who are thoughtlessly adding themselves to the dysfunctional families group that they will likely achieve the opposite result they're looking for.  It's a friendly fair warning.  Whenever people equate their trivial, normal experiences with something that is serious and abnormal, they create distance, not intimacy. They show they clearly don't get it, which is the opposite of what they intended.

That's a completely different topic than keeping dysfunction a secret.

THIS.

another thing that has become popular is to say "autism is a spectrum, so everyone is a little bit autistic." . . . . . um, no you're not.  and it's seriously disrespectful to those that are.  it telss us you don't know what it means, and you're not interested in learning what it means.

--I have two formally diagnosed autistic kids, and am likely on the spectrum.   no, everyone is "not" on the autism spectrum.  

no, not everyone comes from a truly dysfunctional family.  people have their faults and foibles.  my dad had his failings, but I knew he was sincerely trying to be a good dad - and I knew he loved me.  I didn't trust my mother, and felt like she'd have been happier if I had never been born.

6 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I'm in that age range, and from my POV it's not an issue of truth telling, or being able to face the truth. It seems to me that what many people deem dysfunctional nowadays was considered very normal then. So societal change has to come into the discussion. Can behavior that was normal then be deemed dysfunctional retroactively? IDK, just musing. By today's standards my childhood would have been dysfunctional. I saw it as pretty normal.

I'm in my 50s -   I KNEW what was going on in my family was *not* "typical".    I was jealous of my peers, I used to lament why did I have to have such a crappy family?  I could see how they interacted with their parents and siblings - and it sure wasn't happening in my home.

I did get the message from my grandmother that we "don't talk about" "those things". - - things were hidden because "what would people say?" - which indicates even she knew damn well what was going on was wrong!

6 hours ago, Quill said:

I had the same reaction to reading a biography of Mr. Rogers (presumably the same one), and I felt this way about the movie, too. 

In the movie, one of the big take-aways for me is where Mr. Rogers (Tom Hanks) is telling the magazine writer that, even if his dad was not a very good father, he still shaped him, he still contributed to who he became. He didn’t say it in exactly those words, but that was just a stunning thing to sit with for me. It really made me think about bad things that I have been through and how I can still be grateful for something, even if I wish the experience had been different. The bad things shaped me, too. 

my grandmother had a piece in shaping me.  I won't get into all the ways, but I have a much deeper appreciation for genuinely good people.  and they're out there.

5 hours ago, sweet2ndchance said:

I'm going to say yes, based on my experience. My parents were abusive but I never realized how abusive until I was able to get out from under their control and see that not everyone lived the way I did as a child. In order to keep us under their control, they had to keep us extremely sheltered. We weren't allowed to go to friend's houses to play. There were quite a few kids we weren't even allowed to be caught talking to because, I realize now, it was a threat to the dysfunctional level of control my parents wanted to have over our lives. It was only once I was able to get out of their grip as an adult that I realized that my parents weren't just super strict, they were controlling and abusive in ways I didn't even realize because I didn't know until then that most parents don't do the things my parents did.

When I was an older teen/young adult, I would have told you my parents were strict bordering on abusive and I didn't want to be anything like them as a parent. Now, as a middle aged/older adult, I would tell you my FOO is/was very dysfunctional and abusive because I've now had enough time to experience the world and see how other people do things without my parents constantly hovering over me and realize just how abnormal my childhood was. 

 

some things I realized.  other's not until I was older.  I thought it was normal that we had to call grandma as soon as we got home after leaving her house - and if we didn't call her, she'd call us.   I started rebelling as a teen, and would refuse to call her.  

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

Oh, I think there's a lot wrong with John Wayne's brand of masculinity. Masculinity does not require being a racist homophobe.

there are places it's not popular to say - but John Wayne was selling a persona.  that's not who he really was.  (I don't have respect for adulterers)  but that's how most of Hollywood was, and is.  all about the persona.

Jimmy Stewart - HE was the *real* deal.

[gardenmom5]

I appreciate everyone's responses.  I remember reading things from adults back in the 80s, who'd watched him - as they were spiraling out of control in their lives and how he helped them.

I believe he was a nice person - but I also believed everything he said about "I like you" - could never apply to me.  I'd been treated as worthless - but those who were supposed to love me (which I believe contributed to leaving me in a position where I was bullied.) - that I thought I was worthless.  as long as he was on TV, it wasn't going to change me or my circumstances.

I was wondering if that was a common perception among those from dysfunctional/abusive families.

Edited December 1, 2019 by gardenmom5

[Shoeless]

2 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

Is it actually trendy? Really? I think it's more likely that it's more socially acceptable to admit these things.  People used to be more reluctant out of loyalty or embarrassment to "air dirty laundry" or own up to mental illness in their family tree.  I think it's really strange to accuse people of embellishing the truth about this because it's the "in" thing.  Granted, some families are more . . . everything than others, but it's not really a competition.  

I read Educated.  That was some Grade A dysfunction.  I don't think that means a family has to be THAT dangerously messed up in order to not function in a normal, healthy way.

 

I don't think it's actually trendy, but I think that's a word that people use to be dismissive.  If it's true that "every family is dysfunctional", then you don't have to acknowledge or do anything about families that are emotionally or psychologically abusive. 

Funny enough, my father used to brush off discussions about our family life with "Well, no one emerges from childhood unscathed. Eventually you grow up and learn to forgive your parents for their failures".  That shut the whole conversation down.  There was no talking about how to make things better for everyone, no discussion about why all the kids were struggling, why my sibling developed an eating disorder, why I ran away.  Just a variation on "Every family is dysfunctional.  Get over it".  

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

I don't think it's actually trendy, but I think that's a word that people use to be dismissive.  If it's true that "every family is dysfunctional", then you don't have to acknowledge or do anything about families that are emotionally or psychologically abusive. 

Funny enough, my father used to brush off discussions about our family life with "Well, no one emerges from childhood unscathed. Eventually you grow up and learn to forgive your parents for their failures".  That shut the whole conversation down.  There was no talking about how to make things better for everyone, no discussion about why all the kids were struggling, why my sibling developed an eating disorder, why I ran away.  Just a variation on "Every family is dysfunctional.  Get over it".  

my brother does a variation of that - only he goes on about how ex-wife #2 has borderline personality disorder (she's not rational), is abusive, and he was sending their daughter to therapy.

then I spoke with his daughter . . . . he was attending the therapy sessions with his daughter.  the therapist ended them when he realized how toxic my brother is.  my niece sees the therapist on her own, and is currently no contact with my brother. (she's also saving email/texts from him incase she wants to file a restraining order against him.)

but my brother tells me to "get over" our childhood.  can you say "disconnect"?

[Shoeless]

4 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

can you say "disconnect"?

 

My dad has a big disconnect, too.  He has no self-awareness, at all. It's kind of fascinating in a way, but also deeply frustrating.  He'll criticize his brothers for how they raised their kids and say things like "Well, of course your cousins have problems. Look at their parents! (his siblings)  Their parents were raised by deeply troubled people (my grandparents), so how else could this turn out?"  Um, Dad, you were raised by those same "deeply troubled people". Yet you don't see any of the problems your own kids had or the part you played in it. I agree that multi-generational patterns of dysfunction are real, but do you see how that has impacted your own kids?  "Oh no, I made the choice to get sane. Your uncles never made that choice, and look how it impacted their kids!" 

Are you kidding me? 

[Laura Corin]

20 hours ago, maize said:

I agree with this.

The idea that all families are dysfunctional equates normal imperfect family dynamics with truly harmful and abusive family dynamics. That dilutes understanding and diminishes our ability to even communicate about true dysfunction.

I grew up in a normal imperfect family. I had never even imagined the kinds of deep dysfunction some on this board describe until I started learning about them as an adult.

A family doesn't have to be perfect to be functional, to be good enough. 

ETA I'm not trying to tell anyone else their family was or wasn't dysfunctional, I'm arguing against the idea that because all families are imperfect, all families are dysfunctional

Yes: my family was pretty quirky, my parents split when I was eleven, both my parents had other partners, I was parcelled around to different people to be looked after.  I would hope to act differently myself than my parents did, but they were just messy and human.  There was concern for my wellbeing (within the ideas of the day), I was fed, clothed and listened to.  Just an imperfect family, not dysfunctional.

My relationship with my mother as an adult has been a bit more difficult, but that's another matter.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Laura Corin