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CuriousMomof3

Homeschooling when the kid is ahead of the parent

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1 minute ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I haven't read any of the replies. so the thread may have changed direction.

 and I hardly ever come to this section of the forum as I feel too inadequate 

but I had a very similar situation. A child with an  IQ way higher than mine.  Who was very quick to grasp math/ science things  and who loved physics, a under-educated me ( left school after year 10 ) who had never even taken physics. I also had to do a lot of scribing and reading aloud as he has Dyslexia and Dysgraphia

 I taught my son how to learn. He had to teach himself. He had to teach me. The most effective way to learn something is to have to teach it to someone else. He did that. And while all the  year 12 physics he taught me went straight out my other ear. he retained it. We had a math tutor for exactly 2 sessions, just to help ds with a particular thing. It was when he was studying a university level unit to get into University.

It was a frustrating time for both of us. Him frustrated at the wanting to learn at a faster rate, me frustrated by my inadequacies 

He use to say that he got to university in spite of me. But now that he is working he has said that he realized at university that most other students didn't now how to learn, they  were use to teachers telling them and struggled at university because of that.

 


Thanks, can you give me examples of what materials he used to learn from?  

 

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I should clarify, that my kid is actually really good at learning things on his own, if he has material that he can access.   This is my kid who learned math through geometry by himself on Khan academy before he came to us as an almost 9 year old.  

But I can't see us going back to him working in isolation on a iPad.  He's spent a huge amount of time doing that, before he came to us, and I don't see it as healthy for a kid his age.  I feel like he needs a curriculum that is interactive, and a way for him to connect with others.  I'm just not sure I know what that interaction looks like when the person he's there to interact with doesn't have the skills.  Melissa's idea of having him teach Dad is a good one.  Maybe connecting with people through some kind of online classroom could work, although I'm still fuzzy on the details of that option.  

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well It was a few years ago ( 10 year or more)  and technology has advanced a lot since then. There are also a lot more options of curriculum now then there were

 because I didn't know what I was doing I followed The Well Trained Mind as closely as I could with adaptions for Ds disability.

He was 10 when I started homeschooling him

We did critical thinking and logic puzzles. He really shone  at this- I almost always came out with the wrong answer . The only drawback on teaching your child logic is they then win any argument hands down. telling me  all the falicies  that I was using etc. was great practice for him I guess. 

 We used Saxon Math for math - right the way through  to advanced math. though he didn't complete advanced math as he started Open University courses when he was 16 as his pathway to University ( Australian universities don't do transcripts you have to prove that the student can work at university  level) 

We did the whole series of How things work- readers digest were the publishers, for middle school science , I read and scribed for him through the whole lot

We did Apoligea Science for high school  -  which we both hated, but I couldn't find /didn't know where to look/ for something that was secular and a homeschool option. We just skipped some paragraphs. It also had a funny way of rounding numbers for the chemistry book that drove ds bonkers. I ended up contacting the publisher over it and they gave me some long winded response that meant nothing to either of us.  I read the whole lot to him. we did mostly discussions for answers  in the biology etc, and he never had a problem with the writing of math  so I was happy just accepting math only answers for the physics and chemistry with oral discussion.  ( I have to say I have regretted strongly not recording myself reading as I had to then read the first 2 Apologia books to my next 4 children. they are not thin books)

for History we did it completely wtm style.  in middle school with SOTW combined with Kingfisher History Encyclopedia plus reading list that corresponds with it. I found abridged books for as many as I could and read aloud the rest.

 for highs school we used Speivogel Western Civilization - me reading it all aloud. we used the discussion questions as writing topics, me scribing. We dropped history at 16 and just continued on with the literature great books as we ran out of hours in a day  when he started the University level units.

We also did a course of great books of famous mathematicians/scientists starting off with Euclid , Archimedes and so on - ds absolutely loved this  I couldn't understand how he could firstly read it and secondly understand it. but he loved it. Interestingly enough he started being able to read about then and read these to himself. I am sure there are audio books of these available now. 

Someone on this forum told me there is a service available which will have volunteers read and record  texts etc for students with disabilities . I don't remember the name of the service. somebody on the forum may know it though

 

 

Edited by Melissa in Australia
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4 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

well It was a few years ago ( 10 year or more)  and technology has advanced a lot since then. There are also a lot more options of curriculum now then there were

 because I didn't know what I was doing I followed The Well Trained Mind as closely as I could with adaptions for Ds disability.

He was 10 when I started homeschooling him

We did critical thinking and logic puzzles. He really shone  at this- I almost always came out with the wrong answer . The only drawback on teaching your child logic is they then win any argument hands down. telling me  all the falicies  that I was using etc. was great practice for him I guess. 

 We used Saxon Math for math - right the way through  to advanced math. though he didn't complete advanced math as he started Open University courses when he was 16 as his pathway to University ( Australian universities don't do transcripts you have to prove that the student can work at university  level) 

We did the whole series of How things work- readers digest were the publishers, for middle school science , I read and scribed for him through the whole lot

We did Apoligea Science for high school  -  which we both hated, but I couldn't find /didn't know where to look/ for something that was secular and a homeschool option. We just skipped some paragraphs. It also had a funny way of rounding numbers for the chemistry book that drove ds bonkers. I ended up contacting the publisher over it and they gave me some long winded response that meant nothing to either of us.  I read the whole lot to him. we did mostly discussions for answers  in the biology etc, and he never had a problem with the writing of math  so I was happy just accepting math only answers for the physics and chemistry with oral discussion.  ( I have to say I have regretted strongly not recording myself reading as I had to then read the first 2 Apologia books to my next 4 children. they are not thin books)

for History we did it completely wtm style.  in middle school with SOTW combined with Kingfisher History Encyclopedia plus reading list that corresponds with it. I found abridged books for as many as I could and read aloud the rest.

 for highs school we used Speivogel Western Civilization - me reading it all aloud. we used the discussion questions as writing topics, me scribing. We dropped history at 16 and just continued on with the literature great books as we ran out of hours in a day  when he started the University level units.

We also did a course of great books of famous mathematicians/scientists starting off with Euclid , Archimedes and so on - ds absolutely loved this  I couldn't understand how he could firstly read it and secondly understand it. but he loved it. Interestingly enough he started being able to read about then and read these to himself. I am sure there are audio books of these available now. 


Thanks, all of this is super helpful and give me ideas.

4 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Someone on this forum told me there is a service available which will have volunteers read and record  texts etc for students with disabilities . I don't remember the name of the service. somebody on the forum may know it though

 

 

 

We have that.  Pretty much any book he wants to read, I can get for free in an ebook version because he's considered to be a person with a "print disability". In his case, the designation was made based on the fact that turning paper pages is really hard for him, but the audiobook function is helpful, because he struggles with nausea  and fatigue so sometimes being able to read with his eyes closed is key.

 

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Do you think his interaction needs to be with peers necessarily?

For example, just out of curiosity, I searched "US History Discussion board" and found Historum.  Near the top of their World History forum is a current discussion of "Pre-Columbian Contact with the New World" that has been going on since 2017.  A discussion about "Who was the most divisive President in history?" has 235 replies and over 11 thousand views.

In your shoes, I might separate skills, knowledge and interaction.  

Skills (primarily math and writing) could be handled by tutors or online classes that would provide feedback more than interaction.  For example, Lantern writing courses are more like online correspondence classes, with teachers just giving assignments and then providing feedback on the student's work.  This would sidestep any issues of someone having to scribe for your son during a real-time class.

For knowledge, well this technological world is your oyster.  Textbooks, historical fiction, documentaries, YouTube videos, etc.  My 10 year old watches a ton of Great Courses lectures, which are just videos or audio recordings of college lectures on a plethora of topics.  My son's favorite so far has been Physics in your Life (a 36 lecture series).  He was so enthralled that he has now moved on to another by the same professor called Physics and our Universe.  Most of the lectures also come with study guides which include outlines of the lectures, suggested related reading, discussion questions, and sometimes essay prompt ideas.  So far we don't use the discussion guides at all, but in the future I can envision us watching the lectures together and then incorporating the further reading and discussion questions.

Lastly, the interaction.  I actually find that the world is full of people who want to talk (online) about interesting things.  Just look at this board for example...we'll talk about anything!  Nowadays you can read an article about glacial melt by a professor in Norway and then email him a question about it.  He may not answer, but then again he might.  AOPS runs a forum full of kids who just talk math online - I try to avoid it because it makes my head spin with questions like "Which are the homomorphisms of Z4 to Z6?", but that might be right up your son's alley.  Here are some reviews of other tools that might help fill the interaction niche: 5 Online Discussion Tools to Fuel Student Engagement.

With my 2e kiddos, I find there is rarely one solution that fills all our needs.  So more often than not I find myself clarifying my goals, breaking them into their constituent parts, and then finding different curricula or products or methods to address each specific component.

Wendy

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16 hours ago, wendyroo said:

Do you think his interaction needs to be with peers necessarily?

He came home with us 11 months ago, and he has changed so much in those 11 months, in ways we hoped would happen, and in other ways I never would have anticipated.  So, I'm really hesitant to predict where he might be in the fall of 2021, which is when we'll transition to Dad at home and me at work. 

At this point, all of our focus has been on building his ability to interact with family, therapists and the one math tutor.  The only other kids he interacts with are siblings.  He sees other kids when he goes to watch a sibling at a sporting event, or on the playground, but he hasn't shown much interest, although we'll have similarly aged cousins visiting for a couple weeks around Christmas.   I'm curious how that will go.  

So, right now, we're really focused on how to use homeschooling to help him interact face to face, with just one familiar adult.  He does most of his homeschooling with me, and with the math tutor, but he also does work with his Dad, and his grandfather.  That's particularly true during something like a hospitalization, when we're switching off adults, and using the materials to keep him engaged and distracted. 

But 18 months from now?   He might be wanting more adult mentors, or desperate for peer interaction, or it might be the same.  So, I'm just gathering ideas, not making finalized plans at this point.

Quote

For example, just out of curiosity, I searched "US History Discussion board" and found Historum.  Near the top of their World History forum is a current discussion of "Pre-Columbian Contact with the New World" that has been going on since 2017.  A discussion about "Who was the most divisive President in history?" has 235 replies and over 11 thousand views.

 

I could see him accessing that, now, as a way to connect with adult that he's with.  So, he might talk through the question with an adult, look at resources, co-create an answer, and have the adult scribe it for him.  

At this point, he doesn't write or type independently.  The issues that make those things problematic are unlikely to improve, but voice to text technology, and AAC technology are improving pretty quickly.   So, it's possible that in 18 months we'll have a solution that would let him do something like that more independently.  However, I'm not sure how that would go.  

Quote

In your shoes, I might separate skills, knowledge and interaction.  

At this point, my goals are pretty much all interaction, or interpersonal skills.  He's a kid who struggles to engage (although he's come really far in this), and who is the most successful at engaging during a task that involves one other person, is pretty structured, and engages his cognitive strengths.  So, we don't really homeschool because we want him to learn X, we homeschool because it's a vehicle for him to regulate his emotions, organize his behavior, and connect.   Over the past few months, we've seen him branching out to other related activities, like building legos with just one sibling, or exploring music with just one person, or playing a two person board game.  So, it's possible that down the road, he won't need homeschooling to be a vehicle to connect as much as he needs that now. 

But, he's got enough academic skills (leaving aside those that he physically can't do), and knowledge that if he didn't learn anything between now and the first day of high school, he'd be fine academically.  I want him to be learning, because he's the most calm and organized and happy and connected when he's learning, but I don't really care exactly what he's learning.  

Quote

Skills (primarily math and writing) could be handled by tutors or online classes that would provide feedback more than interaction.  For example, Lantern writing courses are more like online correspondence classes, with teachers just giving assignments and then providing feedback on the student's work.  This would sidestep any issues of someone having to scribe for your son during a real-time class.

For knowledge, well this technological world is your oyster.  Textbooks, historical fiction, documentaries, YouTube videos, etc.  My 10 year old watches a ton of Great Courses lectures, which are just videos or audio recordings of college lectures on a plethora of topics.  My son's favorite so far has been Physics in your Life (a 36 lecture series).  He was so enthralled that he has now moved on to another by the same professor called Physics and our Universe.  Most of the lectures also come with study guides which include outlines of the lectures, suggested related reading, discussion questions, and sometimes essay prompt ideas.  So far we don't use the discussion guides at all, but in the future I can envision us watching the lectures together and then incorporating the further reading and discussion questions.

Lastly, the interaction.  I actually find that the world is full of people who want to talk (online) about interesting things.  Just look at this board for example...we'll talk about anything!  Nowadays you can read an article about glacial melt by a professor in Norway and then email him a question about it.  He may not answer, but then again he might.  AOPS runs a forum full of kids who just talk math online - I try to avoid it because it makes my head spin with questions like "Which are the homomorphisms of Z4 to Z6?", but that might be right up your son's alley.  Here are some reviews of other tools that might help fill the interaction niche: 5 Online Discussion Tools to Fuel Student Engagement.

We will check it out.  We use the AOPS textbooks, and alcumus; and we looked into the online classes but decided that they aren't for him.  But, I haven't looked into the forums.  He might like those.  

Quote

With my 2e kiddos, I find there is rarely one solution that fills all our needs.  So more often than not I find myself clarifying my goals, breaking them into their constituent parts, and then finding different curricula or products or methods to address each specific component.

Wendy


I feel as though, at this point, what we're doing is working well enough but he's changing, and our family situation will be changing, so I want to get ahead of that change, at least by figuring out what the options might be, so that when I need to make a choice I'm prepared.  But yes, I imagine it will be some kind of mix up of different solutions. 

I do think we will want to try one online course next year, so that he and I can problem solve how to work together and then teach DH.  I'd love it to be through a provider that we could continue with long term, so i'd love suggestions for that.  So far, I've gotten lots of suggestions for math, but I actually expect that we'll keep math the same.  I'm also looking into  Athena's, Davidson, Stanford, and CTY.  I'd love other suggestions specifically for online programs.  

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Online G3 is good for older kids -- deep discussions, interesting topics.  The work is ungraded and there's very little feedback -- that is the definite drawback. But decent for the social aspect. 

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One thing nice about Athenas and Online G3 is that they have moderated social forums. We have found Athena's to do a better job at connecting the kids socially, but part of that is simply that DD started there earlier and has done more classes, so she's developed a group of friends there over time. She has also had the opportunity to meet some of them at summer program.

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3 hours ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

Online G3 is good for older kids -- deep discussions, interesting topics.  The work is ungraded and there's very little feedback -- that is the definite drawback. But decent for the social aspect. 


How does that socialization occur?  Is it in writing, or are kids talking somehow?  Similarly, how do kids participate in classes?  

I looked at Online G3, and my concern was that there wasn't a lot of science, which is what I suspect DS will want the most, and where DH and I will struggle the most to keep up.  I feel like I will likely be able to keep up with literature and history for a while.  Is there something similar that's got more science?

 

ETA:  The lack of feedback could be an issue if the reason why we aren't teaching or co-learning it ourselves is because we don't know the content. Not sure about that. 

Edited by CuriousMomof3

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3 hours ago, dmmetler said:

One thing nice about Athenas and Online G3 is that they have moderated social forums. We have found Athena's to do a better job at connecting the kids socially, but part of that is simply that DD started there earlier and has done more classes, so she's developed a group of friends there over time. She has also had the opportunity to meet some of them at summer program.


Can you tell me more about the social forums, and how they work?  How do they help kids connect socially?  
 

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1 hour ago, CuriousMomof3 said:


Can you tell me more about the social forums, and how they work?  How do they help kids connect socially?  
 

They are moderated forums with varied topics, where kids can discuss things they are interested in with other kids, with adults moderating. So there is one on Minecraft, one on MiniWorld (a virtual world, sort of online role playing) and other discussions. Athena's also has monthly live chat gifted gatherings and teen Hangouts (my daughter is one of the organizers for the teen hangouts). The kids have a chance to talk about more than class and get to know each other a bit. When my daughter first went to a summer program and met some of these kids in person, it was amazing how much of a connection she had built, and especially in the teen years, it's obvious how much that really is part of her social life. 

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1 minute ago, dmmetler said:

They are moderated forums with varied topics, where kids can discuss things they are interested in with other kids, with adults moderating. So there is one on Minecraft, one on MiniWorld (a virtual world, sort of online role playing) and other discussions. Athena's also has monthly live chat gifted gatherings and teen Hangouts (my daughter is one of the organizers for the teen hangouts). The kids have a chance to talk about more than class and get to know each other a bit. When my daughter first went to a summer program and met some of these kids in person, it was amazing how much of a connection she had built, and especially in the teen years, it's obvious how much that really is part of her social life. 

 

When you say "chat" are they talking live, orally, or typing, or is it delayed like here?  

 

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If you want more traditional school format/feedback vs accommodating his giftedness, you could look at providers like Kolbe, Angelicum Academy, Mother of Divine Grace, or Our Lady of Victory. They are all Catholic schools that offer enrollment options where you can get feedback on assignments. You can do full or course enrollment. (Seton is another that a lot of Catholics use.)

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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22 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

When you say "chat" are they talking live, orally, or typing, or is it delayed like here?  

 

The forums are like here. The monthly gatherings are live, with both oral and typed options, similar to the classes. 

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15 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:



I looked at Online G3, and my concern was that there wasn't a lot of science, which is what I suspect DS will want the most, and where DH and I will struggle the most to keep up.  I feel like I will likely be able to keep up with literature and history for a while.  Is there something similar that's got more science?

 

 

Our favorite science options have been two classes by fellow board members (Jetta's Clover Creek Physics and Connie's Clover Valley Chemistry.  Both are extremely organized, give great feedback, and are very accessible for help.  Connie's Hon Chem in particular is extremely challenging, in a good way. 🙂 . My daughter is in WTMA biology and I am very happy with it.  They meet twice a week, do group work in class, and I feel it is the perfect balance of rigor and support for my daughter. The Physics class meets once a week, while the Chem is asynchronous with videos but she does have office hours twice a week. 

My son has taken a lot of Aops classes. There are active forums but he doesn't participate much.  I know other kids have used them more for social aspect.  

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34 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

Our favorite science options have been two classes by fellow board members (Jetta's Clover Creek Physics and Connie's Clover Valley Chemistry.  Both are extremely organized, give great feedback, and are very accessible for help.  Connie's Hon Chem in particular is extremely challenging, in a good way. 🙂 . My daughter is in WTMA biology and I am very happy with it.  They meet twice a week, do group work in class, and I feel it is the perfect balance of rigor and support for my daughter. The Physics class meets once a week, while the Chem is asynchronous with videos but she does have office hours twice a week. 

My son has taken a lot of Aops classes. There are active forums but he doesn't participate much.  I know other kids have used them more for social aspect.  

There was an earlier post in this thread asking if online classes would provide accommodations for writing, assessments etc.

I was actually going to suggest to the OP to contact the board members who offered Clover creek physics and Clover valley chemistry to see if they could accommodate her son’s disabilities. Many forum members here have had good experiences with those courses.

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