Menu
Jump to content

What's with the ads?

lauraw4321

Letting your kid fail

Recommended Posts

10 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Exactly! It drives me absolutely bonkers when people conflate accommodations for disabilities with helicoptering or snowplowing to remove every possible obstacle from in front of a totally capable NT kid. They. Are. Not. The. Same.  No matter how many accommodations they have, kids with disabilities still face plenty obstacles, and will do so for the rest of their lives. If anything, the kids I know with LDs are some of the most hard-working, resilient, pick-themselves-up-and-keep-going people I've ever met. It pisses me off to no end when people look down on those with accommodations like they're just immature, coddled snowflakes who can't handle real life. Try walking a freaking mile in their shoes and see how easy their lives are!

for those on the spectrum (especially girls) they do a lot of masking, and unless people know what to look for, they don't see the signs they're on the spectrum/neurodiverse.  

 

I'm most likely on the spectrum (I have two formally diagnosed).  I was once lectured by a women for not being patient with someone who may (or may not) have had a disability because "she's disabled" - never mind her initiated interactions with me were triggering mine (caused stress, and I was masking).  - and I was trying to handle my being triggered.  I just found it ironic.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, lauraw4321 said:

Riiight. Sure. 

frankly - I thought what you said (that sparked that question) quite odd.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

 Where is the hand-palm in face smiley or the feinting smiley when I need it.

 This is what I FORGOT to do -  and wondered ever since why my oldest 2 have such long hair after they left home . At least oldest ds has it all sort of trimmed long shoulder length. The next ds cuts it himself. He only bothers with the bits he can see. so the back bits are past half way down his back. He looks like some sot of rock singer from the 80's... 

Why didn't I set up a hair appointment for them - wish I could have a time machine and go back and do it.

My ds has started letting his room mate cut his hair. 🤦‍♀️ It's not great but he's fine with it and he's not asking for any help (even when I've asked) so I'm letting it go.

Honestly my ds has grown tremendously independent over the past few months. It's like he's finally starting to figure it out. I don't think he would have though without the help he received up till then.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, SKL said:

 

I want to have a day to look forward to waking up when I want to, sipping tea, listening to soft classical music, and reading an inspirational book until I feel like doing my yoga. 

 

can I join you?  the dreaming of waking up, and not already being so stressed scaffolding (and trying to find things that actually work!) that I can even think of doing yoga.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, EmseB said:

It's a pretty loaded question.

It wasn't meant to be snarky, I was just taken aback by the previous answer.  I expected something along the lines of "because I love him and want him to be successful and we're a team" not "well if I didn't help him it would cause financial problems that affect me." Like that answer would never have occurred to me in a million years, and I wasn't sure how to even read it. And then she did in fact confirm that she doesn't help him with anything that doesn't directly affect her personally or financially — if he loses his job due to EF issues, that's fine because it won't financially affect her. 

Edited by Corraleno
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, seekinghim45 said:

Yes, I do because they won't stop and the moderators won't step in .  It is my job to protect her.

Isn't that... helicoptering? 

Edited by Corraleno
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been contemplating the original statement about sixth grade being a good (or maybe better than other options) time to fail.

In the sense that grades at that time won't affect high school transcripts, that part is true. I suppose in theory that lessons learned at that time could be applied to positive effect in high school classes.

That said, sixth grade is also a time when adolescence is going into full swing. I say proceed with great caution as to the nature of the failure being allowed. ADD in girls seems to often go along with anxiety and depression, and I can't say I've seen too many, if any, that really thrived from these tough love lessons, including one of my own former sixth grade daughters. A lot of ADD kids have the experience of being called lazy/disorganized/difficult, and it is easy to internalize that message.

I think the outcome can be better if the child has solid professional guidance as far as coping mechanisms. That sort of excellent guidance is tough to come by though.

In hindsight, I wish I had provided a lot more structure and guidance, not less, for my ADD kid. I also realize now, having raised three daughters into and past the teen years, that sometimes you have to provide help even when they protest.

It IS a fine line though between providing appropriate help and being an overbearing parent. I'm not sure we figure out which side of that line we are on until we are looking back on the parenting years 🙂

I'm laughing about Fuzzy's comment about the parents on university-specific boards. I do feel pretty laid back in the face of what appears to be some serious helicoptering there. One woman upset when a spider showed up in her daughter's room, someone else wanting to get laundry service for the kids. Then there are people who call me controlling. All a matter of perspective, I guess. 🙂

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those FB college parent pages are wild. I am so not controlling compared to many of them. I mostly use that page to find out about guest speakers and concerts! Ds recently heard Tim O'Brien speak and was able to meet him and have one of his books signed. Both dc were able to see their all time favorite band in concert too and it's an older group who rarely tours. That's all I use that page for though and it's been awesome for that. Ds would never make time to keep up with that stuff but I'm happy to help him enjoy it all. Life is short.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, seekinghim45 said:

Yes, I do because they won't stop and the moderators won't step in .  It is my job to protect her.

It is an SNL skit and the punchline is "you don't have to yell."

It is really funny. Jon Lovitz. Dennis Miller with his great mullet. You should watch it. Everyone should watch it. And laugh. Cuz it is really funny.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Part of the beauty of healthy family, too, is having people with different strengths that help each other out. Of course, it's easy for the concept of "help" to go awry.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, many people might find the idea of looking up concerts for their university kids to go to, or worrying about the length of their hair, kind of difficult to imagine, even if it isn't on the level of calling professors and such.   

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MysteryJen said:

I think extending parent management for NT kids is a completely different discussion.  Those of us who have practiced scaffolding in various ways for non NT kids are working toward independence as much as possible.

I see helicopter parenting as preventing independence.

Scaffolding for non NT kids might look like helicopter parenting but it is not remotely the same.

 

That's what everyone does. The problem is the OP was describing a process of doing just that - scaffolding does include at times giving the child the chance to use the skills you have been teaching them in the way they see fit, and sometimes it reveals gaps, which can be positive in a variety of ways. At a certain point kids need to buy into your teaching, if for no other reason that you get to a time that you can't force them to perform if they don't see the point, they are too old.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, seekinghim45 said:

 

Why are you being so mean to me..  I haven't done anything to you.  Please. Please.  You are making me hysterical. Please stop.  Pleasse stop. Please stop.  Please stop.

 

Close the computer, walk away, have a bath if you can, or a hot drink. Look outside at the trees, or the ants or the birds. It's not worth it. 

No online conversation is worth this amount of upset. 

  • Like 11
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

Well, many people might find the idea of looking up concerts for their university kids to go to, or worrying about the length of their hair, kind of difficult to imagine, even if it isn't on the level of calling professors and such.   

I'm not sitting at home worrying about these things. I'm also not ignoring the things I see when I hop on FB for five minutes and there are things there my dc might enjoy. Heck, my mom always tags me in things she sees on there I might like. I'm not looking it up anymore than she is but we see it. 

I guess this is just another version of mommy wars though. I'm good with where I stand so I'll leave the thread. I find this kind of nitpicking quite ridiculous though.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, seekinghim45 said:

Yes, I do because they won't stop and the moderators won't step in .  It is my job to protect her.

?huh? why is it your "job"?  is she a child?  are you her mother?  I'm genuinely confused.

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

Isn't that... helicoptering? 

🤣

1 hour ago, seekinghim45 said:

 

Why are you being so mean to me..  I haven't done anything to you.  Please. Please.  You are making me hysterical. Please stop.  Pleasse stop. Please stop.  Please stop.

what on earth?  seriously - go take a hot bath or something.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

That's what everyone does. The problem is the OP was describing a process of doing just that - scaffolding does include at times giving the child the chance to use the skills you have been teaching them in the way they see fit, and sometimes it reveals gaps, which can be positive in a variety of ways. At a certain point kids need to buy into your teaching, if for no other reason that you get to a time that you can't force them to perform if they don't see the point, they are too old.

No - everyone does "not" scaffold their child, in anyway shape or form. even for a spec needs kid who needs the support.  some do next to nothing, even for kids who would drown without it.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, seekinghim45 said:

 SEEE I DID NOT SAY YOU WERE WRONG!!!  PLEASE BE NICE

 

You have got to stop with the ALL CAPS. It's hard to read, and nobody likes being shouted at.

And, moreover, I think you need to take a break. I don't know why this conversation is so personal to you, but it isn't your job to protect anybody here, and you're clearly getting very upset. Just sit down and breathe.

 

Edit: Now *I* really am lecturing, and I apologize. I think we all feel strongly about this. Of course we know that you and lauraw4321 want what's best for your respective kids and are acting out of a sincere desire for their best interests. (Even when we've seen parents who don't care that much, I don't think anybody here thinks either one of you is in that group.) But lots of us regret the missteps our own parents made when we were young, or regret the well-intentioned mistakes we made when our kids were young, and of course we can't help but filter everything through that perspective. And if you think somebody is about to make a mistake, of course you want to help.

I promise, nobody thinks you or laura are bad parents, even those of us who think that this specific course of action, as outlined in the OP, is a mistake or could be taken more carefully.

Edited by Tanaqui
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

I admire your dedication to your son. ....This is very helpful food for thought. 

Thanks for your kind words. I think that we all do the best we can for our kids. It is very very hard to balance many different goals when our child is constantly growing and changing. Unfortunately, we never have the full picture and are constantly wandering in the dark. Good luck to you and your dd. 

Ruth in NZ

Edited by lewelma
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, unsinkable said:

It is an SNL skit and the punchline is "you don't have to yell."

It is really funny. Jon Lovitz. Dennis Miller with his great mullet. You should watch it. Everyone should watch it. And laugh. Cuz it is really funny.

Linkie pleasie? I try to watch SNL skits, and they SO go over my head. :biggrin:

Aw shucks, I was reading the thread backward and just realized you linked it already! Well off I go. But I'm telling you, these things always blow my mind.

Ok, I watched it. I can't make heads or tails of it. I just kept thinking it was stuff my ds does and couldn't figure out why they were picking on people on the spectrum. But I'm sure they weren't. So I don't know, lol. 

Edited by PeterPan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

can I join you?  the dreaming of waking up, and not already being so stressed scaffolding (and trying to find things that actually work!) that I can even think of doing yoga.

I know! I did that for years with dd, wishing that I could just plop her in this or that (straight BJU, whatever) like her friends were doing. It was all angst angst. With ds, I don't know, I try to talk myself down from the edge, tell myself it's short, and embrace it. 

The times I don't do that are when I get evidence that it's NOT going to be short. Like it turns out people who need his level of support will need it their whole lives. So they're hard to travel with. I was seeing lots of people saying they couldn't travel because they couldn't leave their kids at 18, 20, etc. So I was like fine, we need a plan B, something that protects my mental health AND works for him. For op, that's things like hiring EF coaches/academic therapists. It's not like there's only one way. You can hire it and that professional bears that load and the dc learns to self-advocate and gets an instructive level of support while gaining independence. For my ds, who will need some level of support his whole life, it means I had to re-envision my future into a future where it's ok TOGETHER. It's ok if he's independent and too busy, but if I want to cruise (and I do), he has to be able to go. So we cruise now. 

I think it means I finally figured out how to have the life I need for mental health AND meet the needs of my kids. It's really hard. It's something we all discover for ourselves and it's kid specific, situation specific. I'm more relaxed now than I was with dd, who was "easier," because I learned how to connect my people to resources so that *I* don't have to be helping them do everything. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am late to this party (as usual these days), but I have struggled with this.

Oldest has ASD and I probably help him more than some of you think I should.  I am ok with that.  He is considering dropping our of college.  There isn't anything locally of worth for him, and he just can't seem to handle being away from home.  We don't know what lies ahead.  He does still have his scholarship and grades are ok, so he could take a gap year and go back, but we will see.

Middle has ADD and is struggling in local college.  He has a bad professor (verbal due dates, changes things all the time, and for a child with rather severe ADD, this is tough), and then he missed the final drop date.  He is failing the class.  He petitioned and they said no.  Most parents would say, "well, there is a hard lesson learned" but for my kid, that may not be true.  He may miss the deadline next time.  We just don't know. 

I am posting these things in hopes that someone can feel encouraged and better about their own situation, I am not posting to gain any parenting advice.  We all are learning when to let go and when to hold tight.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

but it takes knowing your child, and what they need and providing it so they can be their best selves.  it's a sore subject - I used to beg my mother for what is essentially scaffolding help, she couldn't be bothered.   

Sounds like your mother was on the spectrum. I mean, maybe not, but maybe, probably. And I think there was sort of an emotional detachment bred in by parenting advice, the hardships of the times, etc. Too. Things just kind of went together. My father's father, whom I never knew, was a very rough man. There's not even a nice way to put it. And there's no way I let male detachment decide what parenting supports my kids get. It's too easy to conflate personality, your own experiences (I sucked it up or had it hard, so they should too), etc. with sound parenting.

Sound parenting stands up to knowledgeable scrutiny, makes sense, fits evidence-based practices. If we sit down and talk with professionals and experienced people they say yeah you're on track here. Fwiw, I differentiate what I expect from a forum (hearing someone else's stories, hearing someone else's suggestion on things to consider) vs. the feedback I get from a professional who sits in front of me, sees my dc in real life, looks at the WHOLE SITUATION, and says yeah you're on track or these are your holes. But in a way, that's what I'm always looking for are more holes, what can I do better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Oldest has ASD and I probably help him more than some of you think I should.

Fwiw, I don't think that. I read your threads, and I think you're parenting with no regrets and doing the best you can. I'm in the cheerleader section, hoping it works out well. :wub:

23 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Middle has ADD and is struggling in local college...   He petitioned and they said no.  Most parents would say, "well, there is a hard lesson learned" but for my kid, that may not be true.

Oh dear, I hadn't heard this! That's hard to watch, because the results are permanent. I'm sorry. Do they have a retake policy so he could eventually retake the class (with someone else) and get the grade improved? 

Fwiw my dd is obsessive about making sure she knows who the profs will be. Obviously she couldn't do that as a freshman so well. But now, she is very careful. She knows which section of a class she wants to be in, pulls up the syllabii ahead to make sure the class is doable and going to balance with the work of her other classes, etc. 

So I'm just thinking out loud here. Another person in our house failed some classes like 3 X in college. Or maybe the story was had to retake it 3X? It was bad. And you know, when you're 50 or 40 or 30 no one cares. But in the moment it's really ugly. And that person was just flat struggling with the academics, not so much the organization or EF or whatever. And I wonder if said person's parents were aware? Was it having the $$$ to where the fail didn't matter that made the difference? Was it the lack of tech and Flintsones level communication? Hahaha. 

Now we text, we know, and we're sucked into the drama. And scholarships are on the line. 

I don't know, just thinking out loud here. I failed a class in high school, and I doubt my mother even knew. She would have been so stressed, haha. She got stressed about things. But there were workarounds and the school worked it out and had me graduate anyway. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Linkie pleasie? I try to watch SNL skits, and they SO go over my head. :biggrin:

Aw shucks, I was reading the thread backward and just realized you linked it already! Well off I go. But I'm telling you, these things always blow my mind.

Ok, I watched it. I can't make heads or tails of it. I just kept thinking it was stuff my ds does and couldn't figure out why they were picking on people on the spectrum. But I'm sure they weren't. So I don't know, lol. 

It is kind of hard to *explain* comedy...But the thing that makes it funny (to me) is after Lovitz keeps literally poking Miller, breaking his stuff and talking in a nasal voice, Miller yells at him to stop...

Then Lovitz comes out with this formal, sonorous voice and says, "You don't have to yell."

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, DawnM said:

I am late to this party (as usual these days), but I have struggled with this.

Oldest has ASD and I probably help him more than some of you think I should.  I am ok with that.  He is considering dropping our of college.  There isn't anything locally of worth for him, and he just can't seem to handle being away from home.  We don't know what lies ahead.  He does still have his scholarship and grades are ok, so he could take a gap year and go back, but we will see.

Middle has ADD and is struggling in local college.  He has a bad professor (verbal due dates, changes things all the time, and for a child with rather severe ADD, this is tough), and then he missed the final drop date.  He is failing the class.  He petitioned and they said no.  Most parents would say, "well, there is a hard lesson learned" but for my kid, that may not be true.  He may miss the deadline next time.  We just don't know. 

I am posting these things in hopes that someone can feel encouraged and better about their own situation, I am not posting to gain any parenting advice.  We all are learning when to let go and when to hold tight.

I appreciate your candor.

We have had similar situations but I'm not going specify here bc I am gunshy about the advice given like:

"well, you always put the withdrawal dates on your calendar at the beginning of the semester and this wouldn't happen!" <<This always seems to come from parents who claim their kids* have nearly straight As in college, so why would they need withdrawal dates? LOL>>>

 *And then there is the kid who doesn't even know as a freshman a withdrawal date EXISTS, let alone how and when to take advantage of it.

OR like you said..."Next time, he'll know better! "

Well, that doesn't help the student NOW...And as a parent watching it play out, not fully knowing *what* is going to happen...It is really annoying to hear.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, GoodGrief1 said:

<snip>

I'm laughing about Fuzzy's comment about the parents on university-specific boards. I do feel pretty laid back in the face of what appears to be some serious helicoptering there. One woman upset when a spider showed up in her daughter's room, someone else wanting to get laundry service for the kids. Then there are people who call me controlling. All a matter of perspective, I guess. 🙂

 

LOL. I am on two such boards, one for my kid's own college and one that's a general college parent board. I am often stunned by the questions from parents. Stuff like where is the lost and found, what are the library hours... such basic stuff that I marvel that they are asking; even if their kid couldn't look it up on the college site for some reason, the parent ought to be able to.  

And to tie it back to the original discussion, among parents of college-aged non-NT kids I know, not one would post a question like that on a parent's page; if their kid expressed an inability to find that stuff out for themselves, the parent would help the kid do it / coach on how to do it, to build their self-sufficiency. They wouldn't just do it for them without involving the kid in the learning process in some way - a difference between scaffolding and helicoptering. 

Edited by marbel
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

I appreciate your candor.

We have had similar situations but I'm not going specify here bc I am gunshy about the advice given like:

"well, you always put the withdrawal dates on your calendar at the beginning of the semester and this wouldn't happen!" <<This always seems to come from parents who claim their kids* have nearly straight As in college, so why would they need withdrawal dates? LOL>>>

 *And then there is the kid who doesn't even know as a freshman a withdrawal date EXISTS, let alone how and when to take advantage of it.

OR like you said..."Next time, he'll know better! "

Well, that doesn't help the student NOW...And as a parent watching it play out, not fully knowing *what* is going to happen...It is really annoying to hear.

 

Yup!  Right there with you, on all you have said.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, marbel said:

 

LOL. I am on two such boards, one for my kid's own college and one that's a general college parent board. I am often stunned by the questions from parents. Stuff like where is the lost and found, what are the library hours... such basic stuff that I marvel that they are asking; even if their kid couldn't look it up on the college site for some reason, the parent ought to be able to.  

And to tie it back to the original discussion, among parents of college-aged non-NT kids I know, not one would post a question like that on a parent's page; if their kid expressed an inability to find that stuff out for themselves, the parent would coach the kid on how to do it, to build their self-sufficiency. They wouldn't just do it for them - a difference between scaffolding and helicoptering. 

 

Agreed, and sometimes they still need more help than coaching, so we keep helping until they are ready.  It really is ok.

 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Fwiw, I don't think that. I read your threads, and I think you're parenting with no regrets and doing the best you can. I'm in the cheerleader section, hoping it works out well. :wub:

Oh dear, I hadn't heard this! That's hard to watch, because the results are permanent. I'm sorry. Do they have a retake policy so he could eventually retake the class (with someone else) and get the grade improved? 

Fwiw my dd is obsessive about making sure she knows who the profs will be. Obviously she couldn't do that as a freshman so well. But now, she is very careful. She knows which section of a class she wants to be in, pulls up the syllabii ahead to make sure the class is doable and going to balance with the work of her other classes, etc. 

So I'm just thinking out loud here. Another person in our house failed some classes like 3 X in college. Or maybe the story was had to retake it 3X? It was bad. And you know, when you're 50 or 40 or 30 no one cares. But in the moment it's really ugly. And that person was just flat struggling with the academics, not so much the organization or EF or whatever. And I wonder if said person's parents were aware? Was it having the $$$ to where the fail didn't matter that made the difference? Was it the lack of tech and Flintsones level communication? Hahaha. 

Now we text, we know, and we're sucked into the drama. And scholarships are on the line. 

I don't know, just thinking out loud here. I failed a class in high school, and I doubt my mother even knew. She would have been so stressed, haha. She got stressed about things. But there were workarounds and the school worked it out and had me graduate anyway. 

 

LONG story short, he was left with very few openings for the class offerings due to late registration.  And he was more picky about times than professors since he drives 35-45 min. each way.  

He will have to repeat it, and I think it replaces the F, but it won't be in time to apply to his intended major.  We discussed some options last night.  We will see.  I feel bad for him.

As far as the $$, this is our local state college, $7,500/year including all fees, so not horrible, he can "afford" a repeat class if he needs it.  We are ok with that.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've read bits and pieces of this thread.

The one thing I feel I have to contribute is that none of us is going to be a perfect parent. Maybe we will assist too much at some point where a child would have been better off figuring a thing out on their own. Maybe we will fail to offer assistance someplace the child really needed it. We don't have a crystal ball to see all the future implications of every decision.

Most of the time, kids are going to overcome whatever stumbles happen because of our imperfect parenting.

Sometimes, maybe many times, there never was a perfect option.

 

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She never said she’s not helping ever for this kid.

she said her dd repeatedly declined the help.

that’s important here.

maybe her dd will figure out she needs more help. Maybe it will go swimmingly. Who knows? 

I’m sure the op will talk through the end result with her dd. Even if dd fails, it can still be a learning experience if her mom helps her see that 1. Maybe I should have asked for a little organizational help. 2. Perhaps I need some assistance in managing time. 

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Corraleno said:

It wasn't meant to be snarky, I was just taken aback by the previous answer.  I expected something along the lines of "because I love him and want him to be successful and we're a team" not "well if I didn't help him it would cause financial problems that affect me." Like that answer would never have occurred to me in a million years, and I wasn't sure how to even read it. And then she did in fact confirm that she doesn't help him with anything that doesn't directly affect her personally or financially — if he loses his job due to EF issues, that's fine because it won't financially affect her. 

 

You have a lot to say about having a kid with EF issues, but does your spouse have severe EF issues? It is an entirely different ballgame. DH has always been a good provider and has never lost his job. I have to tell myself things like that when I hear him mention that he's supposed to be in for an 8:00 meeting, and it's 7:30 and he's just stepping into the shower, and he has a 30 minute commute. Or mention a required training that he's six months behind on. Or that his supervisor wants him to take on certain administrative tasks that I know he will struggle with. These are daily occurrences in my house. When we were first married, I tried to take on scaffolding him and managing my own life (law school at the time).  Over time he began to (unconsciously, I think) rely on me for some of those things. 

After couple's therapy (more than once), we reached an agreement that I would not consider it my job to help with those tasks. It was causing me inordinate stress and hurting our marriage. So, I had to draw some lines, and say the serenity prayer. So, if I know that his failure to do a task will directly and negatively impact one of the kids (i.e. not get picked up from somewhere, have their health insurance cancelled), I make sure those things get handled. Everything else? It's on him. Even if it makes things more difficult for him. The line gets fuzzy when it's something like... he lost receipts for reimbursement for a work trip to the tune of $600. In that case, I called and got receipts sent to me, sent them to him, and then reminded him weekly until I saw that reimbursement come back in. It took about 6 months. 

So when I see what seems like a pretty problematic work issue (being late), I have to self-talk like this "It's not my job to keep his job. The worst thing that could happen is he'll get fired. He's never gotten fired. And even if he does get fired, I can support us." It's my version of the serenity prayer. Otherwise, I wouldn't still be married.

If he asks me to help him - like "do you mind setting up an extra alarm on your phone and making sure I'm up by X time?" then I absolutely do. But even though I remember that he has an early meeting when he doesn't, I don't consider it my job to remind him. Frankly, we're both happier that way.

I hope it goes without saying that I love him and I love my children. But, in case it wasn't obvious, I do. 

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DawnM said:

 

Agreed, and sometimes they still need more help than coaching, so we keep helping until they are ready.  It really is ok.

 

Good point; I amended my post a little because sometimes more than coaching is needed.  But it's all toward self-sufficiency.

My ADD kid has a file of "form letters" - just letters he's written, with my/Dad's help, for things like thanking for an interview, giving notice for leaving a job, requesting a job shadow for a class, stuff like that.  Types of letters he may have to write again some day.  Because I'll help him with  letters for now, but not forever, and not the same type of letter over and over, ykwim?  

(I know there are websites that have suggestions for letters but having my own experience of looking for resume cover letter samples, it's overwhelming. And being overwhelmed is part of the problem.)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Sounds like your mother was on the spectrum. I mean, maybe not, but maybe, probably. And I think there was sort of an emotional detachment bred in by parenting advice, the hardships of the times, etc. Too. Things just kind of went together. My father's father, whom I never knew, was a very rough man. There's not even a nice way to put it. And there's no way I let male detachment decide what parenting supports my kids get. It's too easy to conflate personality, your own experiences (I sucked it up or had it hard, so they should too), etc. with sound parenting.

Sound parenting stands up to knowledgeable scrutiny, makes sense, fits evidence-based practices. If we sit down and talk with professionals and experienced people they say yeah you're on track here. Fwiw, I differentiate what I expect from a forum (hearing someone else's stories, hearing someone else's suggestion on things to consider) vs. the feedback I get from a professional who sits in front of me, sees my dc in real life, looks at the WHOLE SITUATION, and says yeah you're on track or these are your holes. But in a way, that's what I'm always looking for are more holes, what can I do better.

I do not think she was on the spectrum.  she was overwhelmed, and had a lot of bad parenting advice.  her mother likely was a covert narcissist - and she was an only child.  my siblings . . . . . she had nothing left for me - and she was being TOLD  parents are supposed to let their kids do it themselves. some really bad parenting books in those days.

she was also diagnosed schizophrenic when I was 19. (not sure how correct it was, it's now known what some food allergies will do)  I know she was depressed.  

  • Like 1
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is very odd to me.  When DS was at home, he only had a few responsibilities one of which was obeying his parents and teachers and the other was doing it with a happy heart.  Obviously, those goals were difficult at times, but they were always expected.

My DS was never given an option to complete his school work.  When DS was in 6th grade, I made every effort to communicate with his school and teachers because everyone knew that he had multiple SLDs, and we were working together as a team.  The teachers held my DS to much higher standard that they held themselves.  It was a private school and DS wanted to be there because he grew up with those kids.  When a big assignment was assigned, the staff knew we needed the assignment early so that DS and I could break it down together.  If DS chose not to complete the assignment, I considered that to be disobeying, like whether he refused point blank to take out the trash after being told to do so.  Not completing homework has never been an option whether EF struggles were present or not because we gave him no excuse and he was expected to comply.

So my question is this.  The OP's DD completed the assignment and may likely be awarded an A.  How will the OP be punishing her child at home?  Because as far as I can tell, she told to DD to work on the project and the DD disobeyed her.  I am much more concerned about that lesson than I am about one associated with the grade. 

Edited by Heathermomster
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Heathermomster said:

she told to DD to work on the project and the DD disobeyed her.  I am much more concerned about that lesson than I am about one associated with the grade.

I don't know how op rolls in her house and if she *told* her to do it or whether it was sort of a watching thing. But I want to strongly agree that the *relationship* where I can mentor and say something and really mean it when I say it matters. And for op, she can be thoughtful whether she was requiring it or whether it was a choice. High school and college has more choice.

Some schools are really slow to do 504s, so this dc may not have anything going down at school.

Also there's the issue of motivation. If she can get good grades irrespective of her methods, then she isn't going to use strategies or care about instruction. I also think it's bizarre to listen to an adult male who doesn't have the skills saying what needs to be done. There are methods and instruction he clearly didn't receive. Sometimes the motivation to DO the steps comes from the parents, whether it's just flat compliance/obeying or whether it's a little strategic.

For instance, op could conveniently schedule a social event, something motivating, right before the due date so dc has more motivation to use her strategies. Or she could flat require it. That would definitely be a parenting style. At that age, I was requiring, yes. There's a gap in proficiency that practice brings, and they get the practice by being required to do it that way. LATER they get more flexibility to modify.

But yeah, there's stuff op could unpack. It's one thing to separate yourself from another adult's choices and another to say that sink/swim is the ideal teaching method for a dc. There's a lot in-between there and a lot of good instruction.

Another thing I was thinking about is that adulthood is WAY more complex than school, college, or grad school ever was. I'm not sure this is true for all people, but it definitely is for me. It may take some work for op to make the scenarios that are difficult enough that the dc needs to use the strategies on her own. A sink/swim approach might not get her there only because she won't need to. However it's unfathomable to me that the school is not stepping up to the plate and doing a 504 and helping her get some skills. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Heathermomster said:

This thread is very odd to me.  When DS was at home, he only had a few responsibilities one of which was obeying his parents and teachers and the other was doing it with a happy heart.  Obviously, those goals were difficult at times, but they were always expected.

My DS was never given an option to complete his school work.  When DS was in 6th grade, I made every effort to communicate with his school and teachers because everyone knew that he had multiple SLDs, and we were working together as a team.  The teachers held my DS to much higher standard that they held themselves.  It was a private school and DS wanted to be there because he grew up with those kids.  When a big assignment was assigned, the staff knew we needed the assignment early so that DS and I could break it down together.  If DS chose not to complete the assignment, I considered that to be disobeying, like whether he refused point blank to take out the trash after being told to do so.  Not completing homework has never been an option whether EF struggles were present or not because we gave him no excuse and he was expected to comply.

So my question is this.  The OP's DD completed the assignment and may likely be awarded an A.  How will the OP be punishing her child at home?  Because as far as I can tell, she told to DD to work on the project and the DD disobeyed her.  I am much more concerned about that lesson than I am about one associated with the grade. 

 

Sounds like you had a parenting method that resulted in compliance in your child.

In general, kids with executive function difficulties don't respond well to punitive parenting styles. Thing is, to think through and act on "if I do this behavior I will experience this consequence" requires good executive function.

Here's a short description of what executive function is:

Executive function refers to brain functions that activate, organize, integrate and manage other functions. It enables individuals to account for short- and long-term consequences of their actions and to plan for those results. It also allows individuals to make real-time evaluations of their actions and make necessary adjustments if those actions are not achieving the desired result.

https://chadd.org/about-adhd/executive-function-skills/

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

schizophrenic

Strong correlation with parents being diagnosed schizo/bipolar and the next generation ASD. It's really interesting stuff. Total aside, but I've been thinking of running genetics on some of those previous generation that we're going to lose. Known correlations. Not like we can change the past, but it's interesting.

Edited by PeterPan
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DawnM said:

I am late to this party (as usual these days), but I have struggled with this.

Oldest has ASD and I probably help him more than some of you think I should.  I am ok with that.  He is considering dropping our of college.  There isn't anything locally of worth for him, and he just can't seem to handle being away from home.  We don't know what lies ahead.  He does still have his scholarship and grades are ok, so he could take a gap year and go back, but we will see.

Middle has ADD and is struggling in local college.  He has a bad professor (verbal due dates, changes things all the time, and for a child with rather severe ADD, this is tough), and then he missed the final drop date.  He is failing the class.  He petitioned and they said no.  Most parents would say, "well, there is a hard lesson learned" but for my kid, that may not be true.  He may miss the deadline next time.  We just don't know. 

I am posting these things in hopes that someone can feel encouraged and better about their own situation, I am not posting to gain any parenting advice.  We all are learning when to let go and when to hold tight.

is online an option?  there are some legitimate colleges that offer online 4-yr degrees.  or one class a quarter/semester.  my son's friend took a light load doing his BS - took longer, but he was able to better stay focused.

unfortunately - professors like you describe are out there and most students will encounter at least one in their school career.

sometimes taking some time off, can be really helpful. gives their brans some time to mature.  my boys ended up doing that - I was pulling out my hair wondering if they'd ever launch.  one would only take one class a quarter.  and wait until the day before the quarter started to register. . .  thunk thunk thunk.

it has given me more perspective with dudeling - it may be a very long and circuitous route, but I believe he'll, eventually, get there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said:

is online an option?  there are some legitimate colleges that offer online 4-yr degrees.  or one class a quarter/semester.  my son's friend took a light load doing his BS - took longer, but he was able to better stay focused.

unfortunately - professors like you describe are out there and most students will encounter at least one in their school career.

sometimes taking some time off, can be really helpful. gives their brans some time to mature.  my boys ended up doing that - I was pulling out my hair wondering if they'd ever launch.  one would only take one class a quarter.  and wait until the day before the quarter started to register. . .  thunk thunk thunk.

it has given me more perspective with dudeling - it may be a very long and circuitous route, but I believe he'll, eventually, get there.

 

No, online isn't an option.  It is literally this one class giving him rigors.  Other classes (for Son #2 I assume we are discussing) are not the issue.

Yes, we know there are bad professors.  He doesn't want to take time off and academically he is overall very strong, as long as the profs stick to their syllabus and don't go rogue!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, maize said:

 

Sounds like you had a parenting method that resulted in compliance in your child.

In general, kids with executive function difficulties don't respond well to punitive parenting styles. Thing is, to think through and act on "if I do this behavior I will experience this consequence" requires good executive function.

Here's a short description of what executive function is:

Executive function refers to brain functions that activate, organize, integrate and manage other functions. It enables individuals to account for short- and long-term consequences of their actions and to plan for those results. It also allows individuals to make real-time evaluations of their actions and make necessary adjustments if those actions are not achieving the desired result.

https://chadd.org/about-adhd/executive-function-skills/

Thank-you.  I understand EF very well and my student is not on the spectrum.  We broke the projects down together and I was present clearing off the table, providing supplies, and reviewing the assignment to clarify understanding.  By denying my son the ability to attend a birthday party or playing a video game for a month provided him motivation.

Edited by Heathermomster
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Strong correlation with parents being diagnosed schizo/bipolar and the next generation ASD. It's really interesting stuff. Total aside, but I've been thinking of running genetics on some of those previous generation that we're going to lose. Known correlations. Not like we can change the past, but it's interesting.

I'm really not sure she was - it's very unusual to have someone diagnosed in their 40s (she's had at least two nervous breakdowns). and if she was, it was extremely mild based on how miniscule the dose of rx she took. (she had to cut the smallest tablet available. one dr kept her so medicated she was a zombie)  I do know she was very allergic to mold - and she LOVED bread. (she'd start wheezing and coughing after eating it too - and she'd still eat it.)  I can't eat yeast bread (makes my sinuses swell) - because of the yeast.  I will occasionally cheat - but I know what will happen.

I have friends with schizophrenic sons, both of whom are WAY more impacted than my mother ever was, and both starting in their early teens. I'm 99.9% positive my bil was schizophrenic (the scary kind).  likely he was also asd as his issues went back to young childhood.

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Heathermomster said:

Thank-you.  I understand EF very well and my student was not on the spectrum.  We broke the projects down together and I was present clearing off the table, proving supplies, and reviewing the assignment to clarify understanding.  By denying my son the ability to attend a birthday party or playing a video game for a month provided him motivation.

You say you understand executive function but you offer a parenting strategy that depends on executive function to be successful.

It worked for your child. This does not mean it will work for every child or even most children with executive function difficulties.

Edited by maize
  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the other issue I have been mulling over is educational philosophy. And brick&mortar school vs. homeschool.

As a homeschooler, I taught to mastery. I didn't give "grades" so there was no "failing" or "failure," especially in middle school.

Also, "projects" were not really assigned by me...if by projects you mean: make a pyramid and write a paper or make a diorama and give a report on it. That is a craft plus a writing assignment. If my kids did a writing assignment, it wasn't done until it met the requirements of the assignments. And they could do any amount or type of crafts on their own. it wasn't school work, and it wasn't for a grade.

i haven't done a census of the thread but it seems like the pro 'letting your kid fail' contingent is mostly made up of B&M schoolers...or maybe just the ones posting the most?

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, maize said:

You say you understand executive function but you offer a parenting strategy that depends on executive function to be successful.

It worked for your child. This does not mean it will work for every child or even most children with executive function difficulties.

Did I declare myself the mouthpiece for students with ASD?  Please allow me to clear the record now.  I am not.  ASD kiddos require entirely different therapeutic methods and they have been discussed multiple times over at the Learning Challenges Board.

My DS works with a CBT and he calls the the method Achievement Motivation. I mentioned it during the pinned Teaching EF Skills discussion on the General board.

 

 

 

Edited by Heathermomster
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, maize said:

I've read bits and pieces of this thread.

The one thing I feel I have to contribute is that none of us is going to be a perfect parent. Maybe we will assist too much at some point where a child would have been better off figuring a thing out on their own. Maybe we will fail to offer assistance someplace the child really needed it. We don't have a crystal ball to see all the future implications of every decision.

Most of the time, kids are going to overcome whatever stumbles happen because of our imperfect parenting.

Sometimes, maybe many times, there never was a perfect option.

 

and yet, we have dozens of very vocal posters who have no relationship with their parents or in-laws...

it makes me wonder what in general these types of issues (letting kids fail, you're an adult at 18) impact this...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...