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lauraw4321

Letting your kid fail

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9 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:

That's fine.  You do you.  That is a very easy thing to say when your oldest is 11.  

 Scaffolding for my college student means setting up stuff like ortho visits, flu shots, haircuts, etc when he visits.  Using amazon prime when he doesn't have enough warm socks to walk to class or enough notebooks or runs out of tide pods.  This teen/young adult phase does seem different than I imagined.  But it has freed my kid up to be more successful academically.    I think graduation rates are up in some cases because of both financial but also logistical and emotional support of young adults by parents.  My husband is highly successful and has a master's but I still help him in some ways.  We help people we love.  

Not everyone has to go to college.  Not every parent want that for their kid nor is it a fit for every kid.  But there's no expiration off date for parenting or for caring about your child.  I do think when you have a middle school age kid who is not successful in their current environment, that child either needs a new environment or appropriate supports.  I would not let a kid repeatedly "fail".  Especially a kid going into puberty who already might be having self esteem issues and self doubt.

 Where is the hand-palm in face smiley or the feinting smiley when I need it.

 This is what I FORGOT to do -  and wondered ever since why my oldest 2 have such long hair after they left home . At least oldest ds has it all sort of trimmed long shoulder length. The next ds cuts it himself. He only bothers with the bits he can see. so the back bits are past half way down his back. He looks like some sort of rock singer from the 80's... 

Why didn't I set up a hair appointment for them - wish I could have a time machine and go back and do it.

Edited by Melissa in Australia
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7 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Are you saying that your willingness to help a loved one with EF issues is dependent on whether it benefits you financially?  

 

This felt like an attack. For those wondering where the attack language came from. 

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the scaffolding has been so different for each.  I have one . . . . I wondered if it would ever end . . . . . she was finally diagnosed ASD as an adult (after years of drs).  that explained so much.  but it also meant she was able to start doing something to help so she is now be completely independent.  (finally.)  I found some of her struggles are fairly common for those with her gifts.  and some of the things - are typical of asd girls - and I didn't see it.  (my former ped, denied dudeling has asd - diagnosed by the child dev clinic, so he certainly wouldn't have seen it in her.)

but it takes knowing your child, and what they need and providing it so they can be their best selves.  it's a sore subject - I used to beg my mother for what is essentially scaffolding help, she couldn't be bothered.   

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1 minute ago, lauraw4321 said:

This felt like an attack. For those wondering where the attack language came from. 

she asked a question - based on things you had previously said.   

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5 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

 Where is the hand-palm in face smiley or the feinting smiley when I need it.

 This is what I FORGOT to do -  and wondered ever since why my oldest 2 have such long hair after they left home . At least oldest ds has it all sort of trimmed long shoulder length. The next ds cuts it himself. He only bothers with the bits he can see. so the back bits are past half way down his back. He looks like some sot of rock singer from the 80's... 

Why didn't I set up a hair appointment for them - wish I could have a time machine and go back and do it.

sigh.  calendar aps.  I just put it in my calendar to remind me after a given time - otherwise I wonder why hair is so long, then I have to wait at least a week to get into my stylist (I take dudeling to her too. - she's able to work with him, and that's more than half the battle.)

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5 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

she asked a question - based on things you had previously said.   

It's a pretty loaded question.

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10 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Exactly! It drives me absolutely bonkers when people conflate accommodations for disabilities with helicoptering or snowplowing to remove every possible obstacle from in front of a totally capable NT kid. They. Are. Not. The. Same.  No matter how many accommodations they have, kids with disabilities still face plenty obstacles, and will do so for the rest of their lives. If anything, the kids I know with LDs are some of the most hard-working, resilient, pick-themselves-up-and-keep-going people I've ever met. It pisses me off to no end when people look down on those with accommodations like they're just immature, coddled snowflakes who can't handle real life. Try walking a freaking mile in their shoes and see how easy their lives are!

for those on the spectrum (especially girls) they do a lot of masking, and unless people know what to look for, they don't see the signs they're on the spectrum/neurodiverse.  

 

I'm most likely on the spectrum (I have two formally diagnosed).  I was once lectured by a women for not being patient with someone who may (or may not) have had a disability because "she's disabled" - never mind her initiated interactions with me were triggering mine (caused stress, and I was masking).  - and I was trying to handle my being triggered.  I just found it ironic.  

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1 minute ago, lauraw4321 said:

Riiight. Sure. 

frankly - I thought what you said (that sparked that question) quite odd.

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6 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

 Where is the hand-palm in face smiley or the feinting smiley when I need it.

 This is what I FORGOT to do -  and wondered ever since why my oldest 2 have such long hair after they left home . At least oldest ds has it all sort of trimmed long shoulder length. The next ds cuts it himself. He only bothers with the bits he can see. so the back bits are past half way down his back. He looks like some sot of rock singer from the 80's... 

Why didn't I set up a hair appointment for them - wish I could have a time machine and go back and do it.

My ds has started letting his room mate cut his hair. 🤦‍♀️ It's not great but he's fine with it and he's not asking for any help (even when I've asked) so I'm letting it go.

Honestly my ds has grown tremendously independent over the past few months. It's like he's finally starting to figure it out. I don't think he would have though without the help he received up till then.  

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12 hours ago, SKL said:

 

I want to have a day to look forward to waking up when I want to, sipping tea, listening to soft classical music, and reading an inspirational book until I feel like doing my yoga. 

 

can I join you?  the dreaming of waking up, and not already being so stressed scaffolding (and trying to find things that actually work!) that I can even think of doing yoga.

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3 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

frankly - I thought what you said (that sparked that question) quite odd.

 LEAVE HER ALONE

 

OP.  I would ask to have the thread locked.  They won't stop.  May not work, though.  The last few times I've asked the mods to stop threads because they were mean, they refused.

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1 hour ago, EmseB said:

It's a pretty loaded question.

It wasn't meant to be snarky, I was just taken aback by the previous answer.  I expected something along the lines of "because I love him and want him to be successful and we're a team" not "well if I didn't help him it would cause financial problems that affect me." Like that answer would never have occurred to me in a million years, and I wasn't sure how to even read it. And then she did in fact confirm that she doesn't help him with anything that doesn't directly affect her personally or financially — if he loses his job due to EF issues, that's fine because it won't financially affect her. 

Edited by Corraleno
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3 minutes ago, seekinghim45 said:

Yes, I do because they won't stop and the moderators won't step in .  It is my job to protect her.

Isn't that... helicoptering? 

Edited by Corraleno
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3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Isn't that... helicoptering? 

 

Why are you being so mean to me..  I haven't done anything to you.  Please. Please.  You are making me hysterical. Please stop.  Pleasse stop. Please stop.  Please stop.

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I've been contemplating the original statement about sixth grade being a good (or maybe better than other options) time to fail.

In the sense that grades at that time won't affect high school transcripts, that part is true. I suppose in theory that lessons learned at that time could be applied to positive effect in high school classes.

That said, sixth grade is also a time when adolescence is going into full swing. I say proceed with great caution as to the nature of the failure being allowed. ADD in girls seems to often go along with anxiety and depression, and I can't say I've seen too many, if any, that really thrived from these tough love lessons, including one of my own former sixth grade daughters. A lot of ADD kids have the experience of being called lazy/disorganized/difficult, and it is easy to internalize that message.

I think the outcome can be better if the child has solid professional guidance as far as coping mechanisms. That sort of excellent guidance is tough to come by though.

In hindsight, I wish I had provided a lot more structure and guidance, not less, for my ADD kid. I also realize now, having raised three daughters into and past the teen years, that sometimes you have to provide help even when they protest.

It IS a fine line though between providing appropriate help and being an overbearing parent. I'm not sure we figure out which side of that line we are on until we are looking back on the parenting years 🙂

I'm laughing about Fuzzy's comment about the parents on university-specific boards. I do feel pretty laid back in the face of what appears to be some serious helicoptering there. One woman upset when a spider showed up in her daughter's room, someone else wanting to get laundry service for the kids. Then there are people who call me controlling. All a matter of perspective, I guess. 🙂

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Those FB college parent pages are wild. I am so not controlling compared to many of them. I mostly use that page to find out about guest speakers and concerts! Ds recently heard Tim O'Brien speak and was able to meet him and have one of his books signed. Both dc were able to see their all time favorite band in concert too and it's an older group who rarely tours. That's all I use that page for though and it's been awesome for that. Ds would never make time to keep up with that stuff but I'm happy to help him enjoy it all. Life is short.

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26 minutes ago, seekinghim45 said:

Yes, I do because they won't stop and the moderators won't step in .  It is my job to protect her.

It is an SNL skit and the punchline is "you don't have to yell."

It is really funny. Jon Lovitz. Dennis Miller with his great mullet. You should watch it. Everyone should watch it. And laugh. Cuz it is really funny.

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Part of the beauty of healthy family, too, is having people with different strengths that help each other out. Of course, it's easy for the concept of "help" to go awry.

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Well, many people might find the idea of looking up concerts for their university kids to go to, or worrying about the length of their hair, kind of difficult to imagine, even if it isn't on the level of calling professors and such.   

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1 hour ago, MysteryJen said:

I think extending parent management for NT kids is a completely different discussion.  Those of us who have practiced scaffolding in various ways for non NT kids are working toward independence as much as possible.

I see helicopter parenting as preventing independence.

Scaffolding for non NT kids might look like helicopter parenting but it is not remotely the same.

 

That's what everyone does. The problem is the OP was describing a process of doing just that - scaffolding does include at times giving the child the chance to use the skills you have been teaching them in the way they see fit, and sometimes it reveals gaps, which can be positive in a variety of ways. At a certain point kids need to buy into your teaching, if for no other reason that you get to a time that you can't force them to perform if they don't see the point, they are too old.

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40 minutes ago, seekinghim45 said:

 

Why are you being so mean to me..  I haven't done anything to you.  Please. Please.  You are making me hysterical. Please stop.  Pleasse stop. Please stop.  Please stop.

 

Close the computer, walk away, have a bath if you can, or a hot drink. Look outside at the trees, or the ants or the birds. It's not worth it. 

No online conversation is worth this amount of upset. 

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17 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

Well, many people might find the idea of looking up concerts for their university kids to go to, or worrying about the length of their hair, kind of difficult to imagine, even if it isn't on the level of calling professors and such.   

I'm not sitting at home worrying about these things. I'm also not ignoring the things I see when I hop on FB for five minutes and there are things there my dc might enjoy. Heck, my mom always tags me in things she sees on there I might like. I'm not looking it up anymore than she is but we see it. 

I guess this is just another version of mommy wars though. I'm good with where I stand so I'll leave the thread. I find this kind of nitpicking quite ridiculous though.

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1 hour ago, seekinghim45 said:

Yes, I do because they won't stop and the moderators won't step in .  It is my job to protect her.

?huh? why is it your "job"?  is she a child?  are you her mother?  I'm genuinely confused.

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

Isn't that... helicoptering? 

🤣

1 hour ago, seekinghim45 said:

 

Why are you being so mean to me..  I haven't done anything to you.  Please. Please.  You are making me hysterical. Please stop.  Pleasse stop. Please stop.  Please stop.

what on earth?  seriously - go take a hot bath or something.

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29 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

That's what everyone does. The problem is the OP was describing a process of doing just that - scaffolding does include at times giving the child the chance to use the skills you have been teaching them in the way they see fit, and sometimes it reveals gaps, which can be positive in a variety of ways. At a certain point kids need to buy into your teaching, if for no other reason that you get to a time that you can't force them to perform if they don't see the point, they are too old.

No - everyone does "not" scaffold their child, in anyway shape or form. even for a spec needs kid who needs the support.  some do next to nothing, even for kids who would drown without it.

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5 hours ago, seekinghim45 said:

 SEEE I DID NOT SAY YOU WERE WRONG!!!  PLEASE BE NICE

 

You have got to stop with the ALL CAPS. It's hard to read, and nobody likes being shouted at.

And, moreover, I think you need to take a break. I don't know why this conversation is so personal to you, but it isn't your job to protect anybody here, and you're clearly getting very upset. Just sit down and breathe.

 

Edit: Now *I* really am lecturing, and I apologize. I think we all feel strongly about this. Of course we know that you and lauraw4321 want what's best for your respective kids and are acting out of a sincere desire for their best interests. (Even when we've seen parents who don't care that much, I don't think anybody here thinks either one of you is in that group.) But lots of us regret the missteps our own parents made when we were young, or regret the well-intentioned mistakes we made when our kids were young, and of course we can't help but filter everything through that perspective. And if you think somebody is about to make a mistake, of course you want to help.

I promise, nobody thinks you or laura are bad parents, even those of us who think that this specific course of action, as outlined in the OP, is a mistake or could be taken more carefully.

Edited by Tanaqui
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17 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

I admire your dedication to your son. ....This is very helpful food for thought. 

Thanks for your kind words. I think that we all do the best we can for our kids. It is very very hard to balance many different goals when our child is constantly growing and changing. Unfortunately, we never have the full picture and are constantly wandering in the dark. Good luck to you and your dd. 

Ruth in NZ

Edited by lewelma
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8 hours ago, unsinkable said:

It is an SNL skit and the punchline is "you don't have to yell."

It is really funny. Jon Lovitz. Dennis Miller with his great mullet. You should watch it. Everyone should watch it. And laugh. Cuz it is really funny.

Linkie pleasie? I try to watch SNL skits, and they SO go over my head. :biggrin:

Aw shucks, I was reading the thread backward and just realized you linked it already! Well off I go. But I'm telling you, these things always blow my mind.

Ok, I watched it. I can't make heads or tails of it. I just kept thinking it was stuff my ds does and couldn't figure out why they were picking on people on the spectrum. But I'm sure they weren't. So I don't know, lol. 

Edited by PeterPan

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8 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

can I join you?  the dreaming of waking up, and not already being so stressed scaffolding (and trying to find things that actually work!) that I can even think of doing yoga.

I know! I did that for years with dd, wishing that I could just plop her in this or that (straight BJU, whatever) like her friends were doing. It was all angst angst. With ds, I don't know, I try to talk myself down from the edge, tell myself it's short, and embrace it. 

The times I don't do that are when I get evidence that it's NOT going to be short. Like it turns out people who need his level of support will need it their whole lives. So they're hard to travel with. I was seeing lots of people saying they couldn't travel because they couldn't leave their kids at 18, 20, etc. So I was like fine, we need a plan B, something that protects my mental health AND works for him. For op, that's things like hiring EF coaches/academic therapists. It's not like there's only one way. You can hire it and that professional bears that load and the dc learns to self-advocate and gets an instructive level of support while gaining independence. For my ds, who will need some level of support his whole life, it means I had to re-envision my future into a future where it's ok TOGETHER. It's ok if he's independent and too busy, but if I want to cruise (and I do), he has to be able to go. So we cruise now. 

I think it means I finally figured out how to have the life I need for mental health AND meet the needs of my kids. It's really hard. It's something we all discover for ourselves and it's kid specific, situation specific. I'm more relaxed now than I was with dd, who was "easier," because I learned how to connect my people to resources so that *I* don't have to be helping them do everything. 

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I am late to this party (as usual these days), but I have struggled with this.

Oldest has ASD and I probably help him more than some of you think I should.  I am ok with that.  He is considering dropping our of college.  There isn't anything locally of worth for him, and he just can't seem to handle being away from home.  We don't know what lies ahead.  He does still have his scholarship and grades are ok, so he could take a gap year and go back, but we will see.

Middle has ADD and is struggling in local college.  He has a bad professor (verbal due dates, changes things all the time, and for a child with rather severe ADD, this is tough), and then he missed the final drop date.  He is failing the class.  He petitioned and they said no.  Most parents would say, "well, there is a hard lesson learned" but for my kid, that may not be true.  He may miss the deadline next time.  We just don't know. 

I am posting these things in hopes that someone can feel encouraged and better about their own situation, I am not posting to gain any parenting advice.  We all are learning when to let go and when to hold tight.

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9 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

but it takes knowing your child, and what they need and providing it so they can be their best selves.  it's a sore subject - I used to beg my mother for what is essentially scaffolding help, she couldn't be bothered.   

Sounds like your mother was on the spectrum. I mean, maybe not, but maybe, probably. And I think there was sort of an emotional detachment bred in by parenting advice, the hardships of the times, etc. Too. Things just kind of went together. My father's father, whom I never knew, was a very rough man. There's not even a nice way to put it. And there's no way I let male detachment decide what parenting supports my kids get. It's too easy to conflate personality, your own experiences (I sucked it up or had it hard, so they should too), etc. with sound parenting.

Sound parenting stands up to knowledgeable scrutiny, makes sense, fits evidence-based practices. If we sit down and talk with professionals and experienced people they say yeah you're on track here. Fwiw, I differentiate what I expect from a forum (hearing someone else's stories, hearing someone else's suggestion on things to consider) vs. the feedback I get from a professional who sits in front of me, sees my dc in real life, looks at the WHOLE SITUATION, and says yeah you're on track or these are your holes. But in a way, that's what I'm always looking for are more holes, what can I do better.

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20 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Oldest has ASD and I probably help him more than some of you think I should.

Fwiw, I don't think that. I read your threads, and I think you're parenting with no regrets and doing the best you can. I'm in the cheerleader section, hoping it works out well. :wub:

23 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Middle has ADD and is struggling in local college...   He petitioned and they said no.  Most parents would say, "well, there is a hard lesson learned" but for my kid, that may not be true.

Oh dear, I hadn't heard this! That's hard to watch, because the results are permanent. I'm sorry. Do they have a retake policy so he could eventually retake the class (with someone else) and get the grade improved? 

Fwiw my dd is obsessive about making sure she knows who the profs will be. Obviously she couldn't do that as a freshman so well. But now, she is very careful. She knows which section of a class she wants to be in, pulls up the syllabii ahead to make sure the class is doable and going to balance with the work of her other classes, etc. 

So I'm just thinking out loud here. Another person in our house failed some classes like 3 X in college. Or maybe the story was had to retake it 3X? It was bad. And you know, when you're 50 or 40 or 30 no one cares. But in the moment it's really ugly. And that person was just flat struggling with the academics, not so much the organization or EF or whatever. And I wonder if said person's parents were aware? Was it having the $$$ to where the fail didn't matter that made the difference? Was it the lack of tech and Flintsones level communication? Hahaha. 

Now we text, we know, and we're sucked into the drama. And scholarships are on the line. 

I don't know, just thinking out loud here. I failed a class in high school, and I doubt my mother even knew. She would have been so stressed, haha. She got stressed about things. But there were workarounds and the school worked it out and had me graduate anyway. 

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53 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Linkie pleasie? I try to watch SNL skits, and they SO go over my head. :biggrin:

Aw shucks, I was reading the thread backward and just realized you linked it already! Well off I go. But I'm telling you, these things always blow my mind.

Ok, I watched it. I can't make heads or tails of it. I just kept thinking it was stuff my ds does and couldn't figure out why they were picking on people on the spectrum. But I'm sure they weren't. So I don't know, lol. 

It is kind of hard to *explain* comedy...But the thing that makes it funny (to me) is after Lovitz keeps literally poking Miller, breaking his stuff and talking in a nasal voice, Miller yells at him to stop...

Then Lovitz comes out with this formal, sonorous voice and says, "You don't have to yell."

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49 minutes ago, DawnM said:

I am late to this party (as usual these days), but I have struggled with this.

Oldest has ASD and I probably help him more than some of you think I should.  I am ok with that.  He is considering dropping our of college.  There isn't anything locally of worth for him, and he just can't seem to handle being away from home.  We don't know what lies ahead.  He does still have his scholarship and grades are ok, so he could take a gap year and go back, but we will see.

Middle has ADD and is struggling in local college.  He has a bad professor (verbal due dates, changes things all the time, and for a child with rather severe ADD, this is tough), and then he missed the final drop date.  He is failing the class.  He petitioned and they said no.  Most parents would say, "well, there is a hard lesson learned" but for my kid, that may not be true.  He may miss the deadline next time.  We just don't know. 

I am posting these things in hopes that someone can feel encouraged and better about their own situation, I am not posting to gain any parenting advice.  We all are learning when to let go and when to hold tight.

I appreciate your candor.

We have had similar situations but I'm not going specify here bc I am gunshy about the advice given like:

"well, you always put the withdrawal dates on your calendar at the beginning of the semester and this wouldn't happen!" <<This always seems to come from parents who claim their kids* have nearly straight As in college, so why would they need withdrawal dates? LOL>>>

 *And then there is the kid who doesn't even know as a freshman a withdrawal date EXISTS, let alone how and when to take advantage of it.

OR like you said..."Next time, he'll know better! "

Well, that doesn't help the student NOW...And as a parent watching it play out, not fully knowing *what* is going to happen...It is really annoying to hear.

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12 hours ago, GoodGrief1 said:

<snip>

I'm laughing about Fuzzy's comment about the parents on university-specific boards. I do feel pretty laid back in the face of what appears to be some serious helicoptering there. One woman upset when a spider showed up in her daughter's room, someone else wanting to get laundry service for the kids. Then there are people who call me controlling. All a matter of perspective, I guess. 🙂

 

LOL. I am on two such boards, one for my kid's own college and one that's a general college parent board. I am often stunned by the questions from parents. Stuff like where is the lost and found, what are the library hours... such basic stuff that I marvel that they are asking; even if their kid couldn't look it up on the college site for some reason, the parent ought to be able to.  

And to tie it back to the original discussion, among parents of college-aged non-NT kids I know, not one would post a question like that on a parent's page; if their kid expressed an inability to find that stuff out for themselves, the parent would help the kid do it / coach on how to do it, to build their self-sufficiency. They wouldn't just do it for them without involving the kid in the learning process in some way - a difference between scaffolding and helicoptering. 

Edited by marbel
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17 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

I appreciate your candor.

We have had similar situations but I'm not going specify here bc I am gunshy about the advice given like:

"well, you always put the withdrawal dates on your calendar at the beginning of the semester and this wouldn't happen!" <<This always seems to come from parents who claim their kids* have nearly straight As in college, so why would they need withdrawal dates? LOL>>>

 *And then there is the kid who doesn't even know as a freshman a withdrawal date EXISTS, let alone how and when to take advantage of it.

OR like you said..."Next time, he'll know better! "

Well, that doesn't help the student NOW...And as a parent watching it play out, not fully knowing *what* is going to happen...It is really annoying to hear.

 

Yup!  Right there with you, on all you have said.

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1 minute ago, marbel said:

 

LOL. I am on two such boards, one for my kid's own college and one that's a general college parent board. I am often stunned by the questions from parents. Stuff like where is the lost and found, what are the library hours... such basic stuff that I marvel that they are asking; even if their kid couldn't look it up on the college site for some reason, the parent ought to be able to.  

And to tie it back to the original discussion, among parents of college-aged non-NT kids I know, not one would post a question like that on a parent's page; if their kid expressed an inability to find that stuff out for themselves, the parent would coach the kid on how to do it, to build their self-sufficiency. They wouldn't just do it for them - a difference between scaffolding and helicoptering. 

 

Agreed, and sometimes they still need more help than coaching, so we keep helping until they are ready.  It really is ok.

 

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52 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Fwiw, I don't think that. I read your threads, and I think you're parenting with no regrets and doing the best you can. I'm in the cheerleader section, hoping it works out well. :wub:

Oh dear, I hadn't heard this! That's hard to watch, because the results are permanent. I'm sorry. Do they have a retake policy so he could eventually retake the class (with someone else) and get the grade improved? 

Fwiw my dd is obsessive about making sure she knows who the profs will be. Obviously she couldn't do that as a freshman so well. But now, she is very careful. She knows which section of a class she wants to be in, pulls up the syllabii ahead to make sure the class is doable and going to balance with the work of her other classes, etc. 

So I'm just thinking out loud here. Another person in our house failed some classes like 3 X in college. Or maybe the story was had to retake it 3X? It was bad. And you know, when you're 50 or 40 or 30 no one cares. But in the moment it's really ugly. And that person was just flat struggling with the academics, not so much the organization or EF or whatever. And I wonder if said person's parents were aware? Was it having the $$$ to where the fail didn't matter that made the difference? Was it the lack of tech and Flintsones level communication? Hahaha. 

Now we text, we know, and we're sucked into the drama. And scholarships are on the line. 

I don't know, just thinking out loud here. I failed a class in high school, and I doubt my mother even knew. She would have been so stressed, haha. She got stressed about things. But there were workarounds and the school worked it out and had me graduate anyway. 

 

LONG story short, he was left with very few openings for the class offerings due to late registration.  And he was more picky about times than professors since he drives 35-45 min. each way.  

He will have to repeat it, and I think it replaces the F, but it won't be in time to apply to his intended major.  We discussed some options last night.  We will see.  I feel bad for him.

As far as the $$, this is our local state college, $7,500/year including all fees, so not horrible, he can "afford" a repeat class if he needs it.  We are ok with that.

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I've read bits and pieces of this thread.

The one thing I feel I have to contribute is that none of us is going to be a perfect parent. Maybe we will assist too much at some point where a child would have been better off figuring a thing out on their own. Maybe we will fail to offer assistance someplace the child really needed it. We don't have a crystal ball to see all the future implications of every decision.

Most of the time, kids are going to overcome whatever stumbles happen because of our imperfect parenting.

Sometimes, maybe many times, there never was a perfect option.

 

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She never said she’s not helping ever for this kid.

she said her dd repeatedly declined the help.

that’s important here.

maybe her dd will figure out she needs more help. Maybe it will go swimmingly. Who knows? 

I’m sure the op will talk through the end result with her dd. Even if dd fails, it can still be a learning experience if her mom helps her see that 1. Maybe I should have asked for a little organizational help. 2. Perhaps I need some assistance in managing time. 

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10 hours ago, Corraleno said:

It wasn't meant to be snarky, I was just taken aback by the previous answer.  I expected something along the lines of "because I love him and want him to be successful and we're a team" not "well if I didn't help him it would cause financial problems that affect me." Like that answer would never have occurred to me in a million years, and I wasn't sure how to even read it. And then she did in fact confirm that she doesn't help him with anything that doesn't directly affect her personally or financially — if he loses his job due to EF issues, that's fine because it won't financially affect her. 

 

You have a lot to say about having a kid with EF issues, but does your spouse have severe EF issues? It is an entirely different ballgame. DH has always been a good provider and has never lost his job. I have to tell myself things like that when I hear him mention that he's supposed to be in for an 8:00 meeting, and it's 7:30 and he's just stepping into the shower, and he has a 30 minute commute. Or mention a required training that he's six months behind on. Or that his supervisor wants him to take on certain administrative tasks that I know he will struggle with. These are daily occurrences in my house. When we were first married, I tried to take on scaffolding him and managing my own life (law school at the time).  Over time he began to (unconsciously, I think) rely on me for some of those things. 

After couple's therapy (more than once), we reached an agreement that I would not consider it my job to help with those tasks. It was causing me inordinate stress and hurting our marriage. So, I had to draw some lines, and say the serenity prayer. So, if I know that his failure to do a task will directly and negatively impact one of the kids (i.e. not get picked up from somewhere, have their health insurance cancelled), I make sure those things get handled. Everything else? It's on him. Even if it makes things more difficult for him. The line gets fuzzy when it's something like... he lost receipts for reimbursement for a work trip to the tune of $600. In that case, I called and got receipts sent to me, sent them to him, and then reminded him weekly until I saw that reimbursement come back in. It took about 6 months. 

So when I see what seems like a pretty problematic work issue (being late), I have to self-talk like this "It's not my job to keep his job. The worst thing that could happen is he'll get fired. He's never gotten fired. And even if he does get fired, I can support us." It's my version of the serenity prayer. Otherwise, I wouldn't still be married.

If he asks me to help him - like "do you mind setting up an extra alarm on your phone and making sure I'm up by X time?" then I absolutely do. But even though I remember that he has an early meeting when he doesn't, I don't consider it my job to remind him. Frankly, we're both happier that way.

I hope it goes without saying that I love him and I love my children. But, in case it wasn't obvious, I do. 

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22 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

 

You have a lot to say about having a kid with EF issues, but does your spouse have severe EF issues? It is an entirely different ballgame. DH has always been a good provider and has never lost his job. I have to tell myself things like that when I hear him mention that he's supposed to be in for an 8:00 meeting, and it's 7:30 and he's just stepping into the shower, and he has a 30 minute commute. Or mention a required training that he's six months behind on. Or that his supervisor wants him to take on certain administrative tasks that I know he will struggle with. These are daily occurrences in my house. When we were first married, I tried to take on scaffolding him and managing my own life (law school at the time).  Over time he began to (unconsciously, I think) rely on me for some of those things. 

After couple's therapy (more than once), we reached an agreement that I would not consider it my job to help with those tasks. It was causing me inordinate stress and hurting our marriage. So, I had to draw some lines, and say the serenity prayer. So, if I know that his failure to do a task will directly and negatively impact one of the kids (i.e. not get picked up from somewhere, have their health insurance cancelled), I make sure those things get handled. Everything else? It's on him. Even if it makes things more difficult for him. The line gets fuzzy when it's something like... he lost receipts for reimbursement for a work trip to the tune of $600. In that case, I called and got receipts sent to me, sent them to him, and then reminded him weekly until I saw that reimbursement come back in. It took about 6 months. 

So when I see what seems like a pretty problematic work issue (being late), I have to self-talk like this "It's not my job to keep his job. The worst thing that could happen is he'll get fired. He's never gotten fired. And even if he does get fired, I can support us." It's my version of the serenity prayer. Otherwise, I wouldn't still be married.

If he asks me to help him - like "do you mind setting up an extra alarm on your phone and making sure I'm up by X time?" then I absolutely do. But even though I remember that he has an early meeting when he doesn't, I don't consider it my job to remind him. Frankly, we're both happier that way.

I hope it goes without saying that I love him and I love my children. But, in case it wasn't obvious, I do. 

 

YES.  I had a feeling you were coming from a background like mine ( though my husband isn't like that.  He is HYPER responsible..)  When you have been trying to manage everyone's stuff ( and I've had multiple people for multiple years), there comes to a point where you just do the essentials.  We are just done.  I am almost done with youngest.  Hanging on, trying to be responsible...  Easier as she is hardly ever here.  Anyway, we are not judging you guys.  Don't judge us.   Now back to work.  i have so much to do.

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11 hours ago, Corraleno said:

It wasn't meant to be snarky, I was just taken aback by the previous answer.  I expected something along the lines of "because I love him and want him to be successful and we're a team" not "well if I didn't help him it would cause financial problems that affect me." Like that answer would never have occurred to me in a million years, and I wasn't sure how to even read it. And then she did in fact confirm that she doesn't help him with anything that doesn't directly affect her personally or financially — if he loses his job due to EF issues, that's fine because it won't financially affect her. 

 

See her answer just above.  I loved...still love my husband A LOT.  But no, I cannot help him manage his stuff.  Not for my own mental health and his benefit.

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1 hour ago, DawnM said:

 

Agreed, and sometimes they still need more help than coaching, so we keep helping until they are ready.  It really is ok.

 

Good point; I amended my post a little because sometimes more than coaching is needed.  But it's all toward self-sufficiency.

My ADD kid has a file of "form letters" - just letters he's written, with my/Dad's help, for things like thanking for an interview, giving notice for leaving a job, requesting a job shadow for a class, stuff like that.  Types of letters he may have to write again some day.  Because I'll help him with  letters for now, but not forever, and not the same type of letter over and over, ykwim?  

(I know there are websites that have suggestions for letters but having my own experience of looking for resume cover letter samples, it's overwhelming. And being overwhelmed is part of the problem.)

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2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Sounds like your mother was on the spectrum. I mean, maybe not, but maybe, probably. And I think there was sort of an emotional detachment bred in by parenting advice, the hardships of the times, etc. Too. Things just kind of went together. My father's father, whom I never knew, was a very rough man. There's not even a nice way to put it. And there's no way I let male detachment decide what parenting supports my kids get. It's too easy to conflate personality, your own experiences (I sucked it up or had it hard, so they should too), etc. with sound parenting.

Sound parenting stands up to knowledgeable scrutiny, makes sense, fits evidence-based practices. If we sit down and talk with professionals and experienced people they say yeah you're on track here. Fwiw, I differentiate what I expect from a forum (hearing someone else's stories, hearing someone else's suggestion on things to consider) vs. the feedback I get from a professional who sits in front of me, sees my dc in real life, looks at the WHOLE SITUATION, and says yeah you're on track or these are your holes. But in a way, that's what I'm always looking for are more holes, what can I do better.

I do not think she was on the spectrum.  she was overwhelmed, and had a lot of bad parenting advice.  her mother likely was a covert narcissist - and she was an only child.  my siblings . . . . . she had nothing left for me - and she was being TOLD  parents are supposed to let their kids do it themselves. some really bad parenting books in those days.

she was also diagnosed schizophrenic when I was 19. (not sure how correct it was, it's now known what some food allergies will do)  I know she was depressed.  

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