Math Mammoth - likes/dislikes?

[StaceyinLA]

I was reading back over my thread about teaching 1st/3rd graders, and several people mentioned Math Mammoth. I decided to look at the site, and I REALLY like the looks of it overall, and feel like my grandkids would much prefer it to R&S. It definitely introduces things earlier, and I’m fairly sure my grandson would have to go back a bit, but overall I think they’d just enjoy something that was a little more interesting (and I think HIS mental math especially, could use a little boost).

So what’s the overall consensus? If you didn’t like it, why not?

[wendyroo]

We do like Math Mammoth a lot...but it is certainly not perfect.

It has a lot of problems on every page and they are crammed quite close together which can create an overwhelming feel. 

Because it has "too" many problems, I end up going through and crossing some out...which means more prep work for me and having to constantly make judgement calls as to how much is enough practice without going overboard.

It is mastery based which means limited built in review.  After spending a couple weeks on measurement or something, my kids will often hit the cumulative review at the end of the chapter and struggle with older concepts that haven't been practiced in a while.

Similarly to the previous point, I also think it lacks enough built in fact practice.  I have all my boys use Xtra Math to drill the facts.

The fourth grade book is BRUTAL!!  Multi-digit multiplication, long division, fractions, decimals...it is just a dense, difficult, computationally intense level that covers A LOT without as many easier chapters to balance things out like in the other levels.  Even levels 5 and 6 feel a lot easier and more manageable than 4.

All that said, I still love MM and use it with all my kids.  My oldest went through levels 1-6, my second son is in level 5, and my third son is in level 3.  I like the worktext format, the emphasis on mental math, the strong word problems, the scaffolding of concepts to build deep understanding, and the flexibility it offers me.

Wendy

[ByGrace3]

We love MM. 

PROS:

Very conceptual

Great Mental Math

Very incremental

Mastery

inexpensive

solidly prepared my kids for upper level math 

CONS:

Busy pages

Mastery (while a pro also, it can make there be long period of time between topics) (we supplement this will Math minutes grade books from grade 4 on) 

Lacks facts drill (we supplement with xtra math)

 

My dd completed MM 1-7, ds 1-5, and younger dd has done 1- now working through 4 (grade 4 is a bear like pp said). She will continue through either book 6 or 7). Overall I have been very pleased with it and highly recommend the program. I feel like it has filled in a lot of my own math gaps. 

 

[libbypr]

We loved MM for 1st & 2nd grade, but as we started the 3rd grade book this year, my daughter just shut down.  She could do the work, but the layout of the pages was just overwhelming.  Even with marking out about 1/2 the problems, she was still frustrated.  It was just visually overwhelming.  

I decided to switch to Singapore just to try it, and it's going SO much better for her.  Even doing the same amount of problems doesn't bother her because it's laid out in a way that is more appealing to her.

We did love the way MM taught.  It's a very strong program, and her mental math skills are excellent as a result.  But I just couldn't handle the crying over math anymore.  She was starting to say that she wasn't good at math and that she hated it when I knew that just wasn't true.  She's very mathy... she was just overwhelmed.

[hollyhock2]

I have used every level (except 7 because it wasn't out yet) with my kids. My list of pros and cons is similar to the above posts. I especially love levels 1-2. The pages are a bit cluttered and you may have to cross out some problems, but the instruction is fantastic. It teaches kids how to think about math, and different strategies for figuring things out, so that the kid can choose which strategy works for them. There is so much practice in the first two levels, that all my kids knew their addition and subtraction facts solidly without ever having to drill or supplement. 

However, I feel that the higher levels get more and more advanced as you go along. My kids also needed much more review. After doing level 4, which spends weeks and weeks on long division, my son did not remember how to divide at all at the end of the year, because after the division chapter, he really didn't practice long division much. The courses are also quite long and I found it a challenge to get through a level in one school year. I also feel that there isn't enough practice with long multiplication and maybe a few other things.

My kids found it quite a challenge, especially when they got to level 5, and my youngest began struggling in level 2. I decided I wanted a math for them that would build confidence, and not be so time consuming and challenging ALL the time. However, I still love levels 1-2 because they create such a solid foundation for elementary math. I'm using them currently for my 5th student.

[Momto6inIN]

Similar to the above experiences ...

I love it and will continue using it, despite a few disadvantages, because of how incrementally it builds concept upon concept until all of a sudden they're doing long division and it's not even hard! And they know WHY the standard algorithms work.

I was 39 years old and teaching it for the 1st time to my then 7th grader before I really understood why subtracting a negative number meant addition. But my kids take it for granted that that's commonly understood because that's how they were taught with MM.

[Lecka]

There are just not enough problems for my son who needs more problems.  I think it is great but my son needs much more time and much more built-in review.  I would say he is a slow learner. 

[wendyroo]

7 minutes ago, Lecka said:

There are just not enough problems for my son who needs more problems.  I think it is great but my son needs much more time and much more built-in review.  I would say he is a slow learner. 

To be fair, if you buy it digitally, it comes with the worksheet generator which allows you to give a child tons of specific practice if they are struggling.  And while the review is not built in, it does come with additional cumulative reviews and chapter tests that can be added in as additional review.  So there are A LOT of problems available - this is one reason that I consider MM flexible, it is possible to differentiate it for various students by either crossing out some of the built in practice or printing out and adding in additional practice and review.

[Lecka]

I have just had the printed workbooks from (iirc) Rainbow Resource.

[PeachyDoodle]

We use MM as a supplement to CLE. I like it for that purpose, but it would never work for us as a primary curriculum. The biggest issue is how crammed the pages are; it's too much for my ds visually, and there often isn't enough room for him to write. (And I don't feel that his handwriting is unusually large for a 3rd grader.) 

It is much more conceptual, and that makes it more difficult for my ds to process. But he does great when he learns the more standard procedure first and then extrapolates to the concept. It definitely pushes him to think harder than he does with CLE.

The biggest problem I run into with supplementing is figuring out how to match CLE's spiral. Since R&S is a mastery program, that might actually make it easier.

[Syllieann]

I love mm and it was a great fit for my oldest.  I love how conceptual it is, and I like that there is plenty of practice.  It's so easy to use with everything in a single worktext.  I do wish it was more spiral, but working from a few chapters at a time has done the trick for my boys.  My dd, however, had some major issues with mm.  At first it was the pages being cluttered, which was overwhelming.  She also just plain lacked the working memory for the mental math that was in the grade level that she was otherwise working.  Also, even working in multiple chapters failed to make it spiral enough for her to retain concepts.  Since dd left mm, they have added spiral review books that I think would do the trick for her.  She will probably do mm next year with the spiral review because I adore the way the concepts are developed so that the students can't help but understand why the algorithms are the way they are.

For the most part I agree with what others have said.  We use xtra math for facts practice.  The 4th grade book is intense and long.  I would also add that a set of c-rods and base ten hundred flats are really great to have on hand.  I find them helpful for illustrating concepts that are shown in the teaching box.  And the teaching box brings me to my last point: some people who feel they aren't "mathy" or dislike "new math" may not find sufficient teacher support in the worktext.  Maria has teaching videos and is generally supportive, but this is a sentiment I've seen pop up quite a bit from people who have left the program.  

Edited November 9, 2019 by Syllieann

[StaceyinLA]

Thanks for all the input. I guess I’m just not sure if it would be a good move for dgs or not. I feel like R&S is a little slow moving, but also know that it’ll catch up later. I just feel like with all the drill, he really doesn’t know facts off the top of his head like I think he should, and I don’t feel like the mental math is addressed at all. I find myself giving him suggestions when I work with him (and I will be more in the very near future), but I’d love something that had it built in and explained better than I’m likely explaining it.

What would be some easy things to supplement with if I decided to stick with R&S? Things that are fun that would introduce more mental math and math strategies without being another whole math program. Any ideas/suggestions?

Edited November 10, 2019 by StaceyinLA

[alisha]

I enjoyed Verbal Math Lessons for working on mental math. 

[StaceyinLA]

10 hours ago, alisha said:

I enjoyed Verbal Math Lessons for working on mental math. 

 

Thanks! I will look that up.

[Paige]

I like MM a lot. I've never used R&S, but if MM is deemed the "more interesting" choice, than R&S must be really dry. MM is good. It's thorough, and I didn't find it too hard or too easy for the average kid. It did not work with all my kids- some needed something easier, but it's my preferred program for easy kids.

But. It's not a fun program at all. It's not interesting with engaging pictures or whatever. We added manipulatives which helped, but if you want fun and interesting I think you should look somewhere else. I thought Dreambox was fun and engaging.

[Emily ZL]

Math curricula vary so widely and what works for some won't work for others... But I really wish I had switched to Math Mammoth earlier! I got it through a sale at the homeschool buyers co-op for under $100 for all grades 1-6 as digital downloads. What a deal, and a major plus for this program. 

My daughter is working ahead of grade level, and I can just pull lessons that are right for her because I have all the grades. She asked to do some multiplication and I was able to just print some of it out for her.

About the clutter or number of problems.. Maria Miller says in the worktexts that the average kid should probably be doing about half the problems. The rest can be crossed out, covered with a post it note, saved for review later, etc. She gives enough space to work the problems, usually in grid form so place value isn't confused, but she also expects a lot of mental math tricks and such, which is why some problems are given no space really to solve. She also says to skip around chapters and cover things based on your priorities. So for us, the 4th grade book isn't brutal at all. I just wanted to cement the 4 operations, long division, fractions, and decimals, and it's going great. We just skipped all those huge sections on geometry, time, measurement, etc. We can come back if we have time. She also recommends that if your kid needs a little more spiraling, to just switch around chapters. It's very customizable.

My only con for MM is that for the really big topics (like multi digit multiplication) usually there are 2 or 3 methods given for learning these. I think this is because if something isn't clicking with your kid, this gives the mom a new way to help explain it. But for my kid, it completely confuses him. So now we just go straight to the "traditional" method and skip the others - which is a bonus, because now we can skip those pages and move forward. After last year's debacle with Beast Academy, I feel so great about making solid progress and all the review and practice he's getting. I just think it's really a solid program, right in between the conceptual/puzzle/Singapore types, and the traditional/drill types, a great combination. I'm gushing, maybe because it was less than $100 for all my years, haha.

[StaceyinLA]

^ You mentioned some things that I think my grandson would do well with. 1) DIfferent approaches/methods of doing the same thing. I think sometimes if the traditional thing doesn’t click, hearing it explained differently might help. I try to do that, but because I “get it,” I think it’s harder for me to explain at his level. 2) A combo that includes a bit more mental math, but not totally different than a traditional program.

I had thought after reading this thread I’d just stick with R&S, but honestly, your post makes me rethink it...

[StaceyinLA]

22 hours ago, Paige said:

I like MM a lot. I've never used R&S, but if MM is deemed the "more interesting" choice, than R&S must be really dry. MM is good. It's thorough, and I didn't find it too hard or too easy for the average kid. It did not work with all my kids- some needed something easier, but it's my preferred program for easy kids.

But. It's not a fun program at all. It's not interesting with engaging pictures or whatever. We added manipulatives which helped, but if you want fun and interesting I think you should look somewhere else. I thought Dreambox was fun and engaging.

 

Are the MM pages in color? Any pictures? Doesn’t it incorporate mental math, word problems, etc.? I guess when I say boring, R&S is so much drill. It’s black and white, and the pages are just boring. Of course, math is kind of a boring subject, so I’m not bent on changing it for that reason. I think the learning method is also a bit boring, but if it works, it works. I just think my grandson (and his sister) might like it mixed up a bit more.

[StaceyinLA]

On 11/10/2019 at 7:38 PM, alisha said:

I enjoyed Verbal Math Lessons for working on mental math. 

 

Would you share a link? When I look this up, I see a few different things.

[Paige]

MM is in color but I rarely printed them in color. If you print the whole thing in color you will be going through a lot of ink. It has pictures and incorporates mental math and word problems. But don't all programs use word problems and some mental math? MM teaches mental math skills very explicitly which I like. 

 

[Emily ZL]

We have a printer with fairly cheap ink cartridges, so I don't worry much about ink, plus the pages have only a little color really on a white background; it's not like printing out photos. 

My son thought MM was too businesslike after Beast Academy.. it's hard to compete with comic books. But after getting the problems and getting confidence back, he's starting to feel good and say he likes math again. It's engaging and the problems are varied, but not really fun. She gives suggestions for games and there are practice games on the website. If you're not sure you can always sign up for her math teaching email series - she sends these great math teaching emails, like 6 or so, which I thought were very valuable.

[kiwik]

Maths is not a boring subject.

[Carolinaf]

 

I am very glad for this post. I think there is a great number o people which benefit advocating for Math Mammoth and selling the absolutely FALSE idea its a self-teaching program. I was reading and watching videos for about four months until i decided moving from Singapore Math to Math Mammoth because i wanted a program i was capable to get all the explanations in the book and teach my kids. I was not even dreaming they would do on their own. My 5th grade son and my 3 grade daughter were expecting the books so very much once we liked the online videos and i thought we would be much happier and have a much more positive relationship with math. When i saw the box on my porch i was jumping and shouting math mammoth arrived!!(I was literally thinking: My life will be much better, math will be happiness for us!! Kids may be independent soon...etc..) What a disappointment!!

This program can be very good and work for many families but it's a very hard curriculum, i guess only for very good math brain wired people!! I can NOT understand many explanations, they are not enough for me, a normal math brain. I need more to understand so do my kids. Maybe this program is good for people that are very aware of math and have everything fresh in their minds. I understand why kids cry and why parents quit. I feel sad about the program saying kids will be able to work mostly independently and many moms are also enduring the same idea in the online world. I cannot return, so will try to use it as a review, but i can see it will be a hard and dry path for me and the kids. If you are a math expert and your kids are gifted i would recommend, or if you maybe want to be dealing with learning concepts all the time and trying to have them to grasp and being motivated to go in the resolutions of all the exercises. I am sure it is a good program. I am sure if i would be able to learn from the books i would be content and happy. False ad, i wish more people would have the courage to present the reality of the program. Glad some people are bringing some issues here as for me i am sad for the big disappointment and will be going back to Singapore, i feel home there after opening Math Mammoth.