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Ordinary Shoes

Do you make your kids go to Sunday school?

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Do you force your kids to go to Sunday school? My daughter has never objected to church school before. She whined about it sometimes but she never said she hated it. Well, this year she says she hates it. I told her that she needs to give it a chance because it might get better. I spoke to someone about it and I'm hopeful that some changes will be made. 

If we let her quit, I know it will cause some issues because the other children will still have to go. I don't want to cause issues for other parents. 

I was always forced to attend CCD but I don't that hurt me. 

I saw an anti-vax rant on FB from one of the teachers so there's that too...

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Why would other children factor in? Would your DD just stay in church or would you let  her stay home entirely? I don't think other people's kids should have any impact on your decisions about your own child. We did not make our children go. My DD loves it but my DS never did. He has made the decision not to go to church at all now that he's nearly an adult. 

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What is CDD? 🙂 

If the rest of your family is at church, I would--at your daughter's age--require that she go as well. However, if there is a real reason for her to dislike the class (not just that it's "boring", for example), perhaps she can find a place to volunteer during that time. Someone close to me was made to feel left out in Sunday School when she was a young teenager 😡, and she chose to help with a younger class rather than attend hers. It was a good solution. However, I don't know if there is a job a 9-year-old could do at your church.

I used to attend a church in which some kids chose to attend adult Sunday School rather than the children's class and that could possibly work as well. However, that was a church history class so there were no especially private or adult discussions. 

Could she sit somewhere near you and do a bit of religious reading, coloring, puzzles, etc. during that time?

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6 minutes ago, MercyA said:

What is CDD? 🙂 

If the rest of your family is at church, I would--at your daughter's age--require that she go as well. However, if there is a real reason for her to dislike the class (not just that it's "boring", for example), perhaps she can find a place to volunteer during that time. Someone close to me was made to feel left out in Sunday School when she was a young teenager 😡, and she chose to help with a younger class rather than attend hers. It was a good solution. However, I don't know if there is a job a 9-year-old could do at your church.

I used to attend a church in which some kids chose to attend adult Sunday School rather than the children's class and that could possibly work as well. However, that was a church history class so there were no especially private or adult discussions. 

Could she sit somewhere near you and do a bit of religious reading, coloring, puzzles, etc. during that time?

It's CCD and I'm not sure what it stands for but it was what Catholic Sunday school was called when I was a kid. I think they call it Faith Formation now? We're not Catholic though. 

We don't do adult Sunday school at our church. If she didn't go to church school, she would get to sleep later on Sunday morning because church school is held before liturgy. 

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10 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

It's CCD and I'm not sure what it stands for but it was what Catholic Sunday school was called when I was a kid. I think they call it Faith Formation now? We're not Catholic though. 

We don't do adult Sunday school at our church. If she didn't go to church school, she would get to sleep later on Sunday morning because church school is held before liturgy. 

Whoops, sorry! I googled it. It stands for Confraternity of Christian Doctrine. I skimmed the Wiki article and it looks like it's considered to be important for kids who are preparing for communion and confirmation in the Catholic church. Someone who knows more than me can chime in. Since you're not Catholic yourself, I don't know if that is something you desire for her or something she desires for herself?

In any case, I don't think I'd require my daughter to be in church (or Sunday School, or at Bible study) if I wasn't doing the same. But I know different churches have different approaches.

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Church isn’t optional in our household but I would definitely dig to find the root of her objections. 

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16 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Whoops, sorry! I googled it. It stands for Confraternity of Christian Doctrine. I skimmed the Wiki article and it looks like it's considered to be important for kids who are preparing for communion and confirmation in the Catholic church. Someone who knows more than me can chime in. Since you're not Catholic yourself, I don't know if that is something you desire for her or something she desires for herself?

In any case, I don't think I'd require my daughter to be in church (or Sunday School, or at Bible study) if I wasn't doing the same. But I know different churches have different approaches.

I was raised Catholic but I am now an Orthodox Christian (kinda - but that's a long story). Adult Sunday School is not a thing in Catholic or Orthodox churches. In the Catholic Church, generally speaking kids have to attend religious education (either at a Catholic school or CCD, or whatever they call it today) to have their Sacraments, First Communion generally in the 2nd grade and Confirmation which is usually in high school. 

In the Orthodox Church, kids receive all of their Sacraments at baptism so religious education is not technically a requirement but most families do it. You as a parent are required through the vows you took at your child's baptism to provide a religious education. 

We would still attend church on Sunday morning. 

16 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Church isn’t optional in our household but I would definitely dig to find the root of her objections. 

 

She says it's boring and that all they do is listen to the teachers talk. Our churches uses a Montessori based curriculum so there is a lot of hands on work for the kids to do. My DD moved up to the another level this year and they have not done anything hands on so far. I walked by the room a few Sundays ago and they were sitting at a table while the teachers talked which is consistent with what DD said. 

 

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We're Catholic, but kids don't go to Faith Formation, because two of them go to a Catholic school, and my homeschooled kid gets homeschooled in Faith Formation as well.  Would that be an option, to keep her out of church school, and teach her yourself?  I know you've posted that you have some disagreements with the Orthodox church, so that might be a way to give her an education that's more in line with her values.  Plus you could incorporate hands on activities, or service learning, or whatever would help her engage.  

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1 hour ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I was raised Catholic but I am now an Orthodox Christian (kinda - but that's a long story). Adult Sunday School is not a thing in Catholic or Orthodox churches. In the Catholic Church, generally speaking kids have to attend religious education (either at a Catholic school or CCD, or whatever they call it today) to have their Sacraments, First Communion generally in the 2nd grade and Confirmation which is usually in high school.


Well, we are Catholic. So far (our oldest is 9), they all do enroll in religious education in preschool and continue on. If one of them said they didn't want to attend, I don't know what we'd do. After all, the RCC teaches that parents are the primary teachers of their children. While most kids do attend religious ed, it is certainly not a requirement. It's not even a requirement for sacrament years.

However, I've actually been pondering this question myself. We have a couple new RE teachers in the parish this year. I happened to need to grab something from one of the rooms during class. All I could think was "not a single one of this kids is engaged. Where is the joy of the Gospel?" Thankfully, I have a couple years before any of our kids are in that class...and a lot can happen in two years (like that teacher getting more comfortable).

Because while I don't want our kids to experience that, RE is also currently their only class out of the house. And I'd do think it's good for them to hear about the faith from other people.

But, if you aren't currently practicing Catholicism that adds another dimension, too. I'd probably keep communication open with the child and ask them to stay for X amount of time. I'd approach the teacher and try and open a dialogue there. (Frankly, as an RE teacher, I'd love to hear from a parent.) When the agreed upon time came, I'd have another discussion with the kid. If they really wanted to, I would give hard thought to only HS them for religion.

It's not an easy place to be in OP. I hope you find a solution that works for you and your child.

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Yes, our children attended Sunday school. If I wasn’t teaching, hubby and I were both in adult Sunday school. We never give them the option of not going when until they graduated high school. With that said, neither of them gave any pushback.

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When we attended a Methodist a Church for many years, our son usually went while we were at adult Sunday School or for one year, while I was teaching SS. That said, I found the quality of the classes very uneven and often little more than babysitting. I know the year I taught I was given virtually no training or information, just a curriculum. It reminded me a lot of CCD when I was young, and I think I received a very poor Catholic religious education. One year we actually stopped taking him part way through the year because it just wasn’t a good fit. So my husband stayed home with him while I taught SS, and then we all went to church together. This worked fine because we lived only a short walk away from the church.

I think it depends on your goals for Sunday School. Are you relying on it for religious instruction in your faith and are they doing a good job? It doesn’t sound like you need her occupied while you are attending Sunday School. Personally, I think being talked at with no discussion or ability to ask questions is the worst type of religious education for anyone. And it pretty much sums up the majority of my CCD experience.

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There were years my kids enjoyed it and many they did not.  Boring teachers, boring curriculum.  Sadly the Catholic Church has not learned how to engage kids like the other faiths do. 

 Aside from the sacrament years, I always offered the option of homeschooling them.  They always decided to go to RE (they call it religious education here).  Now they’re in 9th grade and are teacher assistants.  Their choice. They are pretty active in church though- altar servers and sacristans and frequent volunteers.  The old folks love them! 😀

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6 minutes ago, Frances said:

When we attended a Methodist a Church for many years, our son usually went while we were at adult Sunday School or for one year, while I was teaching SS. That said, I found the quality of the classes very uneven and often little more than babysitting. I know the year I taught I was given virtually no training or information, just a curriculum. It reminded me a lot of CCD when I was young, and I think I received a very poor Catholic religious education. One year we actually stopped taking him part way through the year because it just wasn’t a good fit. So my husband stayed home with him while I taught SS, and then we all went to church together. This worked fine because we lived only a short walk away from the church.

I think it depends on your goals for Sunday School. Are you relying on it for religious instruction in your faith and are they doing a good job? It doesn’t sound like you need her occupied while you are attending Sunday School. Personally, I think being talked at with no discussion or ability to ask questions is the worst type of religious education for anyone. And it pretty much sums up the majority of my CCD experience.

I don't think I have a goal for it. I'm not relying on it for religious instruction because I'm not that concerned about that anyway. In prior years, she's learned a lot about the Bible due to the hands on work they did. I liked that. This is a new class so I can't say whether they will do a good job. I'm sure they had the ability to discuss and ask questions during class. 

I'll admit I'm having a hard time with the anti-vax thing. Do I want my kid taught by people who are radical anti-vaxxers? 

 

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My oldest is 10 1/2, so yeah my children have to go.

I would find out why she doesn't want to go and straighten that out. Or u may have already said that in your op and I missed it.

There is another child the same age as my son and he doesn't attend anymore. He doesn't want to. That hasn't effected my children.

It may depend on how old your child is. Since my oldest is only 10 1/2 please take my advice with a grain of salt.

I see it as in no different then teaching them reading, math and writing or making them eat healthy foods. It is essential that they believe. In fact probably the most important thing that we can teach them. I feel if I let my child decide that he or she can't go, then my child may feel that I don't think learning God's word is essential.

Hth.

Good luck.

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4 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I was raised Catholic but I am now an Orthodox Christian (kinda - but that's a long story). Adult Sunday School is not a thing in Catholic or Orthodox churches. In the Catholic Church, generally speaking kids have to attend religious education (either at a Catholic school or CCD, or whatever they call it today) to have their Sacraments, First Communion generally in the 2nd grade and Confirmation which is usually in high school. 

In the Orthodox Church, kids receive all of their Sacraments at baptism so religious education is not technically a requirement but most families do it. You as a parent are required through the vows you took at your child's baptism to provide a religious education. 

We would still attend church on Sunday morning. 

She says it's boring and that all they do is listen to the teachers talk. Our churches uses a Montessori based curriculum so there is a lot of hands on work for the kids to do. My DD moved up to the another level this year and they have not done anything hands on so far. I walked by the room a few Sundays ago and they were sitting at a table while the teachers talked which is consistent with what DD said. 

Thanks for the explanation! I was wondering, and now I remember your previous threads.

Based on what you've said here, I wouldn't require her to attend Sunday School.

I do, however, agree with @desertflower that God's Word is probably the most important and essential thing we can teach our children. I would include reading of a good children's Bible and discussion of those readings in your homeschooling. I think she'll get much more out of studying Scripture with you than from the class as you've described it.

Edited by MercyA
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So my eldest has zero desire to have anything to do with Islam or formal religion of any kind.  Other kids go to Qur'an school, Sunday school, etc.  The compromise we made was that there are certain books on different faiths I want him to read (I usually use The Dummies/Complete Idiot's Guide books), as well as videos and stuff (had him watch Joseph Campbell's "Power of Myth", etc.  I told him, it's my job as his parent to make sure he at least knows about Islam, but belief is up to him.  I also want him to know about other faiths so that hopefully he can find a place that fits him better, or at least have that knowledge.  My one thing is that I want him to learn about other faiths from people who practice that faith/love that faith.  This comes from so much of the Islamophobic literature that is out there and is completely wrong...plus some of the things I hear Muslims say about Christianity which I know are wrong based on being raised Christian and even taking some classes in seminary.  

Edited by umsami
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2 hours ago, desertflower said:

My oldest is 10 1/2, so yeah my children have to go.

I would find out why she doesn't want to go and straighten that out. Or u may have already said that in your op and I missed it.

There is another child the same age as my son and he doesn't attend anymore. He doesn't want to. That hasn't effected my children.

It may depend on how old your child is. Since my oldest is only 10 1/2 please take my advice with a grain of salt.

I see it as in no different then teaching them reading, math and writing or making them eat healthy foods. It is essential that they believe. In fact probably the most important thing that we can teach them. I feel if I let my child decide that he or she can't go, then my child may feel that I don't think learning God's word is essential.

Hth.

Good luck.

And they can’t learn God’s word at home or at church? Sunday School is essential for that? They won’t believe if they don’t go to Sunday School?

I can assure you that my poorly taught CCD classes weakened my faith, rather than strengthening it.

Edited by Frances
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23 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Thanks for the explanation! I was wondering, and now I remember your previous threads.

Based on what you've said here, I wouldn't require her to attend CCD / Faith Formation.

I do, however, agree with @desertflower that God's Word is probably the most important and essential thing we can teach our children. I would include reading of a good children's Bible and discussion of those readings in your homeschooling. I think she'll get much more out of studying Scripture with you than from the class as you've described it.

Her daughter isn’t attending CCD or Faith Formation because they are not Catholic. It is Sunday School at an Orthodox Church.

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50 minutes ago, Frances said:

And they can’t learn God’s word at home or at church? Sunday School is essential for that? They won’t believe if they don’t go to Sunday School?

I can assure you that my poorly taught CCD classes weakened my faith, rather than strengthening it.

People can learn God's word anywhere. Doesn't have to be at a building.

I don't know anything about ccd or Catholicism. 

I haven't read the whole thread.

I would first resolve why my child doesn't want to go anymore.

I don't know why but I assumed op has more than one child. And I was thinking if my oldest all of a sudden declared that he didn't want to go to Sunday school and I allowed that, then his siblings may follow suit. I have seen this happen before.

And my son's classmate doesn't study God's word at home. He told me so.

I think sunday is a perfect time for my child to study God's word. When I am too. Just like I do copywork when my children do. Or free write when they do.

If we didn't have a church to attend, then we would study God's word every sunday because this is when we take the Lord's supper and would be a convenient time to study God's word. This is what we believe.

Hth

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1 hour ago, Frances said:

And they can’t learn God’s word at home or at church? Sunday School is essential for that? They won’t believe if they don’t go to Sunday School?

I can assure you that my poorly taught CCD classes weakened my faith, rather than strengthening it.

That's one of my concerns. I have some issues with church but I don't want my DD to hate it. 

I told DD that she needed to give it a few more chances. It might improve as the year goes on. Everything is still somewhat new. 

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Like a couple of pp, going wasn't a choice, but we didn't/don't have any pushback from it. However, if they had been unhappy, we would have tried to figure out why and determine if we were in the wrong church for us. When we have moved to new places, how they felt about churches we visited was a great influencer on whether or not a church was considered an option for our family (along with agreeing with the doctrine, of course, which was most important).

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I do not like christian ed teachers teaching their own thing no matter what the issue is.  I would speak to someone about the anti-vax thing.  I had someone teaching my kids that people who don't get vax are killing people in an Algebra class, so I get it.  

My older kids loved sunday school up through about 5th grade, but seriously hated youth group in the older grades.  I talked to someone about it and we were able to do mostly a homestudy for confirmation with once a month sunday school and the rest at home, plus they were able to do service work instead which they enjoyed.  My kids liked church just fine.  I felt like forcing my kids to attend youth group was actually makeing them hate church and that is the opposit of what the goal is supposed to be.

edited: my kids hated youth group because the adult/teachers were terrible and condescending.  After talkign to some friends they said the same thing and so we let them quit.

Edited by Mbelle
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Yes, we required our son to go to both Sunday School and church. If there had been any issues, we would have checked to see if there was a legitimate reason and made necessary adjustments (up to and including changing churches). Church fellowship is an important aspect of our faith and is therefore an important aspect of our family life. Neither church nor Sunday School were optional.

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48 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Yes, we required our son to go to both Sunday School and church. If there had been any issues, we would have checked to see if there was a legitimate reason and made necessary adjustments (up to and including changing churches). Church fellowship is an important aspect of our faith and is therefore an important aspect of our family life. Neither church nor Sunday School were optional.

Our extrovert daughter never complained about any activity which involved people🙄our introverted daughter would have stayed home from most activities given the choice😊 

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Yes, I insist on Sunday School among other things.

It is not always pleasant when we disagree on that, but there is a deeper purpose.

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Great Girl went to CCD (now CFF) because it was required for First Communion if your child wasn't in the parish school. Homeschooling was not an option. I sat in on the class and debriefed her on the way home - "Yes that thing they said isn't actually true, is it? The Scriptures tell us instead... Our Faith has always taught us instead...." We continued after First Communion because she had some friends in the class, but I pulled her after a particularly egregious false teaching that I brought to the pastor's attention and ended up being a Thing and getting me a name as a troublemaker. 

So I volunteered as a catechist. Our DRE was horrified. But I can be nice, too, and I started teaching the orthodox Catholic Faith and the Holy Scriptures, incorporating fun activities as much as I could, and my class ended up being reasonably popular. I also requested the parents sit in on the class and bring to my attention any concerns they had. My younger girls only attended CCD for grades that I was teaching or for which I personally knew and trusted the catechist. I quickly learned that, being a longtime and reasonably popular catechist, I could more or less dictate my own rules for how my other girls would meet the First Communion and Confirmation requirements.

Now Middle Girl is once again attending CCD every Sunday because she is the Catechist and I am her Assistant. :) 

So my advice: get involved with the Sunday School. Can you volunteer to be an assistant? Can you at least sit in a few times and see what's going on, so you know exactly what's making your child unhappy? Have you talked to the Sunday school teacher? A parish is a family; be a sister in Christ, bringing your concerns forward in love, and maybe some third way for resolution will manifest.

(And if I may, as your Sister in Christ, make a gentle suggestion: maybe she does have views on vaccination that would have been better for you not to have known about ... but don't all of us have some views that would startle others? Can you forgive her in your heart, and move on to not letting her opinions color your [surely unrelated] concerns about Sunday School?)

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Ordinary Shoes, weren't you the person who posted a little while ago about not being so sure about your religion anymore? If so, why not BOTH of you take a break?

If not, you should still make the decision that's right for your daughter, not the one that's easier for all those other parents.

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56 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Ordinary Shoes, weren't you the person who posted a little while ago about not being so sure about your religion anymore? If so, why not BOTH of you take a break?

If not, you should still make the decision that's right for your daughter, not the one that's easier for all those other parents.

Yes, that was me. It's complicated. My daughter is friends with these kids. People rely on us for things that need to get done. 

1 hour ago, Violet Crown said:

 

So my advice: get involved with the Sunday School. Can you volunteer to be an assistant? Can you at least sit in a few times and see what's going on, so you know exactly what's making your child unhappy? Have you talked to the Sunday school teacher? A parish is a family; be a sister in Christ, bringing your concerns forward in love, and maybe some third way for resolution will manifest.

(And if I may, as your Sister in Christ, make a gentle suggestion: maybe she does have views on vaccination that would have been better for you not to have known about ... but don't all of us have some views that would startle others? Can you forgive her in your heart, and move on to not letting her opinions color your [surely unrelated] concerns about Sunday School?)

I have been involved in Sunday School for years. This is the first year that I have not taught or assisted in five years. FREEDOM! 

 

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So this is the same kid having other issues with church, right? Honestly, it sounds more and more like she needs a different place to grow in her faith, and that the longer you stay the greater the risk she will turn her back on faith all together. 

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How old is your dd? I've had similar experiences where my dc had very good reasons for not wanting to attend youth/children's classes and programs at our Catholic church. If you feel that there are topics of concern being introduced in the class, such as the anti-vax you mentioned, that are not appropriate I would try to investigate more. If you can sit in on a class or two, that would be great.  

I would not push for a child attending a class that is poorly run or not a good fit. I would focus on being together as a family at mass and other services and making the most of that special time together in growing your faith. I really appreciate that about the Catholic religion, in that families attending mass and other services together is usually highly promoted. 

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If trying another church isn't a possibility, I would take the other kids to their class then sit somewhere with her and a devotional, or a notebook and a bible, and have your own bible study together, or work through the creed and what it means, or dig into some of her theological questions (or yours!) together and research them, or even just drop off the other kids and then go sit in the car with her and listen to a religious podcast or watch videos together. 

I don't know if you joined the progressive christianity social group over in Clubs, but someone linked an AMAZING video over there on the love of God and Jesus as the perfect manifestation of that that you could watch together, as a starting point. 

As CS Lewis said, the church is the door through which we enter to meet God. If instead it or Sunday school become a barrier to her meeting God, you need to find her another door before she gives up and stops trying to enter. 

Edited by Ktgrok
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We made our kids go to Church school, but that's because there was more than one child.  It would have caused a problem if we'd let one stay out and made the others go.  It's definitely been a hit or miss issue for us, with mostly misses at each church we've attended.  I'm not a huge fan of Church School/Sunday School per se.  Most kids are already in traditional school all week long, and most SS programs just repeat that style (kids sit and listen to a lesson, do a craft or fill out paperwork, repeat).    But, my dh was pretty adamant that they go and it wasn't a hill I was willing to die on.

But, FF to now.  We have one child at home and he's 18 in 12th grade.  He dislikes church school. It's usually boring and often his friends aren't there (a lot of kids are involved in school activities and don't make it to church).   Church school is pretty small for the high schoolers anyway, so if one or two are gone that week, there's only 2 kids in class.  

What we have opted to do is to have a mini-lesson with Dad.  DH is a very talented teacher and has been teaching adults/youth since his early 20s.   We're doing this partly because he will be going off to college next year and we want one final time to discuss with him our values and beliefs.   It's going to be more Christian apologetics and Q/A with questions ds has or things he may encounter.    It will only be about 15min increments for the drive home from church.  Nothing too long.  Of course, ds isn't jumping up and down about that either... but oh well.  

 

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Yes, we did kind of force our kids up through their coming of age program at our UU church.  We just called it part of their broader education.  As they aged we started having some conflicts with their extracurriculars, but we just balanced those as best we could.  

Is this a very small, tight knit community that you're worried about other parents?  If all the kids are struggling with it, maybe it's time to step back.  Or do some broader community building with that group of kids.  If my kids knew and felt comfortable with another kid or 2 in their grouping, it was always much easier.  I guess if we're talking about your 9 year old, I'd have no problem enforcing attendance if you thought it was generally good.

I guess if you're having broader issues with your church community in general or your 9 year old is questioning it entirely, that's a different issue.  Those issues I would take seriously.

 

Edited by FuzzyCatz
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