Breastfeeding in public question

[Laura Corin]

59 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Unsinkable, you're so much fun when you drop Occam's razor down the loo, so you can feel accused enough to justify yourself in accusing other people of being monstrous, so you can turn yourself into a victim, I only regret I'm not the type to set you off deliberately.

Thank you

[unsinkable]

5 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Unsinkable, you're so much fun when you drop Occam's razor down the loo, so you can feel accused enough to justify yourself in accusing other people of being monstrous, so you can turn yourself into a victim, I only regret I'm not the type to set you off deliberately.

Huh. 

[MercyA]

19 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Would this same idea, that it is better to miss out on the service than make others uncomfortable, apply if say, you were a person of color at an all white church, and you being there was making some racist people feel uncomfortable? Would Jesus think you should make the racist people more comfortable by leaving, or would he think you should stay?

Again, "comfort" is not something Christianity really promotes. Most of Christianity is hard work, at least for me! I mean, pray for my enemies? That's not comfortable AT ALL! But Jesus didn't say 'oh, well, if it is uncomfortable I'll stop teaching that". 

I'm getting ready for co-op, so I'll have to be super quick! As a Christian, if I'm going to knowingly make someone uncomfortable when there is another alternative available, someone who is not sinning but merely embarrassed or uneasy, I personally feel like I need to have a really good reason to do so. I consider racism a sin, so, yes, I think combatting it is worth making someone uncomfortable. Or, if baby needs to eat and there is no alternative available but to do so openly, sure, that's a good reason as well.

I know some would say breastfeeding in public IS worth making others uncomfortable. That's not my conviction, if there's another alternative available.

Definitely Jesus teaches uncomfortable things, and one of the most uncomfortable (and hardest for me!) is that we should--all of us--try to put others first.

[MercyA]

From what I know of unsinkable, she's one of the most maternal people on the board. I can see why she would bristle if she thought someone was saying otherwise. I know she'd never let a baby cry from hunger.

I think there are some misunderstandings going on.  

[ktgrok]

9 hours ago, unsinkable said:

I never told anyone where they should Or shouldn't nurse. 

Nor did I make my comment about my noisy nursers in regard to where to nurse. 

But the responses I'm getting are AS IF that is what I posted. 

It is so predictable it is ridiculous. 

 

And never did anyone say you did, or respond as if you did. 

10 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I'm getting ready for co-op, so I'll have to be super quick! As a Christian, if I'm going to knowingly make someone uncomfortable when there is another alternative available, someone who is not sinning but merely embarrassed or uneasy, I personally feel like I need to have a really good reason to do so. I consider racism a sin, so, yes, I think combatting it is worth making someone uncomfortable. Or, if baby needs to eat and there is no alternative available but to do so openly, sure, that's a good reason as well.

I know some would say breastfeeding in public IS worth making others uncomfortable. That's not my conviction, if there's another alternative available.

Definitely Jesus teaches uncomfortable things, and one of the most uncomfortable (and hardest for me!) is that we should--all of us--try to put others first.

Hmm..is a person sinning who is just sitting there, feeling uncomfortable? 

Is a person who judges women breastfeeding in public sinning?

Interesting questions. 

And again, although I believe I am called to love my neighbor as myself, I do not interpret that to mean I am to make them as comfortable as possible. Nor does it say to love them MORE than myself. I love my children, but my actions and demands often are not comfortable for them. Jesus didn't make people comfortable. Paul and Peter sure didn't make people comfortable. The prophets didn't make people comfortable. 

I just don't see that as a Christian ideal. 

[Scarlett]

11 hours ago, unsinkable said:

If this is directed toward me or inspired by my post and is meant to somehow imply I let my babies scream rather than feed them bc their nursing noises made people uncomfortable, you could not be more wrong.

What the what? 

That is NOT how I read her post.  

[Scarlett]

Ok, I might be losing my mind.  I read Sinks post yesterday about noisy nursers...and just now when I saw her follow up replies I went back to read her original and it is just gone.  It is driving me crazy.  I didn’t think  we could completely delete a post.  .? ?

[Guest]

22 hours ago, unsinkable said:

I'm missing why you're getting so much pushback on this point when there are posts here which (generally) say something similar. There are posts which seem to indicate that in a small family setting, if the BF ing couple wwould make people uncomfortable, they wouldn't do it, they'd remove themselves to another room.

as an aside...I had loud nursers...the smacking, the sighing, the gurgling, the gulping, the humming, the babbling... We could be completely "covered" but there was no doubt someone was sucking on something...LOL

@Scarlett Here is the loud nursers post. So it hasn’t disappeared. Although I don’t think anybody used this post as a jumping-off point to shame noisy nursers. I see several posters agreeing they had slurpy nursers, too. 

[Scarlett]

12 minutes ago, Quill said:

@Scarlett Here is the loud nursers post. So it hasn’t disappeared. Although I don’t think anybody used this post as a jumping-off point to shame noisy nursers. I see several posters agreeing they had slurpy nursers, too. 

Ahh.  Thank you! I was scrolling rapidly and missed that the noisy nurser part was at the end of her post.  Whew.  I thought I was going insane.

anyway, my son was not all that noisy but he did hum, which I thought was sweet.  

 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Ahh.  Thank you! I was scrolling rapidly and missed that the noisy nurser part was at the end of her post.  Whew.  I thought I was going insane.

anyway, my son was not all that noisy but he did hum, which I thought was sweet.  

 

My youngest always liked to play with my hair while he nursed. I thought it was so adorable. 

[Lady Florida.]

8 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Unsinkable, you're so much fun when you drop Occam's razor down the loo, so you can feel accused enough to justify yourself in accusing other people of being monstrous, so you can turn yourself into a victim, I only regret I'm not the type to set you off deliberately.

❤️❤️❤️ 

[Catwoman]

3 hours ago, MercyA said:

From what I know of unsinkable, she's one of the most maternal people on the board. I can see why she would bristle if she thought someone was saying otherwise. I know she'd never let a baby cry from hunger.

I think there are some misunderstandings going on.  

 

I agree — and Unsinkable is also one of the most pro-breastfeeding women on this forum. I have no idea whether or not she misinterpreted Rosie’s intentions, but I have to admit that I was kind of shocked by the sarcastic tone of Rosie’s response, particularly because she is not just a forum member, but is also a moderator, and I guess I always assumed that moderators were supposed to help keep the peace here, not incite more conflict. 

9 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Unsinkable, you're so much fun when you drop Occam's razor down the loo, so you can feel accused enough to justify yourself in accusing other people of being monstrous, so you can turn yourself into a victim, I only regret I'm not the type to set you off deliberately.

 

I know it’s difficult not to respond in kind when you feel like you’re being attacked, but it seems to me that it would clarified everything very simply and have been far less confrontational to have simply said something like, “Unsinkable, I’m sorry you read my post that way, but I hadn’t intended it as a response to your post and I wasn’t even thinking about you when I posted it.”  I think Unsinkable probably would have accepted a response like that and there would have been no hard feelings on either side.

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

There's just a wee bit of hypocrisy in your reprimand, Cat.

Unsinkable and I have ended our tiff, and you are resurrecting it.
 

 

Breastfeeding was the thread topic here.

[maize]

29 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Breastfeeding was the thread topic here.

,

It was...but wouldn't this be an excellent time to transition to a discussion of kilts?

I miss the days of posting celebrities-in-kilts photos...

Edited October 22, 2019 by maize

[Rosie_0801]

1 minute ago, maize said:

,

It was...but wouldn't this be an excellent time to transition to a discussion if kilts?

I miss the days of posting celebrities-in-kilts photos...

 

Keep it in writing. It's 3.30am here and I can't stay up all night deleting kilt pics. 🤣

[Catwoman]

13 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

There's just a wee bit of hypocrisy in your reprimand, Cat.

Unsinkable and I have ended our tiff, and you are resurrecting it.
 

 

Breastfeeding was the thread topic here.

 

I hadn’t seen that you and Unsinkable had ended anything, unless it was privately via PM. Your response to her in this thread wasn’t exactly what I would call friendly (and it wasn’t about breastfeeding, either, so I guess we are both off-topic! 😉 )

I hope I am mistaken and that all is well between you, but I haven’t seen any evidence of that here. I apologize if I am mistaken!

 

[Catwoman]

16 minutes ago, maize said:

,

It was...but wouldn't this be an excellent time to transition to a discussion if kilts?

I miss the days of posting celebrities-in-kilts photos...

 

I miss those days, too! But more importantly, should I bring the cupcakes to the school party or not? And what’s the big deal if I don’t return my shopping cart to the corral? And don’t even get me started on crockpots!!! 😄

[Scarlett]

28 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Well I was posting in solidarity - it’s hard to be discreet with a snorfle nurser, and I already struggle with NIP anyway.  I keep hoping this new one will be a dream to nurse after the drama with the last kiddo.  Like, please just latch and STAY latched  🙏 

Snorfle!  If that isn’t a word it should be.  Lol

[Momto6inIN]

I just want to say that I feel like I've really "arrived" as part of the boards now that this post is up to 5 pages and there's been some snark and somebody has accused somebody else of shaming and hypocrisy and there has been mention of both kilts and cupcakes ...

I'm so proud 😁

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

I just want to say that I feel like I've really "arrived" as part of the boards now that this post is up to 5 pages and there's been some snark and somebody has accused somebody else of shaming and hypocrisy and there has been mention of both kilts and cupcakes ...

I'm so proud 😁

You’re a Real Member now. Use this power wisely. 

[MercyA]

9 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

And again, although I believe I am called to love my neighbor as myself, I do not interpret that to mean I am to make them as comfortable as possible. Nor does it say to love them MORE than myself. I love my children, but my actions and demands often are not comfortable for them. Jesus didn't make people comfortable. Paul and Peter sure didn't make people comfortable. The prophets didn't make people comfortable. 

I just don't see that as a Christian ideal. 

Two thoughts:

1. When Jesus, the apostles, and the prophets made people uncomfortable, it was usually because they were rebuking them for sin and calling them to repentance. It doesn't follow that because they did that, I can make other people uncomfortable for any reason that seems important to me.

2. Christians are called to be kind, considerate, gentle, forbearing, loving, and patient. Sometimes not making someone uncomfortable or going out of our way to make someone comfortable IS the kindest, most considerate, most loving thing we can do in a particular situation. I never said or meant that being comfortable should be some sort of goal for Christians themselves or the most important goal for them in relation to others. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by MercyA

[maize]

22 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Two thoughts:

1. When Jesus, the apostles, and the prophets made people uncomfortable, it was usually because they were rebuking them for sin and calling them to repentance. It doesn't follow that because they did that, I can make other people uncomfortable for any reason that seems important to me.

2. Christians are called to be kind, considerate, gentle, forbearing, loving, and patient. Sometimes not making someone uncomfortable or going out of our way to make someone comfortable IS the kindest, most considerate, most loving thing we can do in a particular situation. I never said or meant that being comfortable should be some sort of goal for Christians themselves or the most important goal for them in relation to others. 

I think the principles you have outlined are generally good and true.

Where you and I may differ is in our perception of the value and goodness of a mother feeding her infant and the problematic and yes sinful attitude of those who would perceive a mother feeding her infant as in any way doing something improper or needing to be hidden away.

I do see a person who thinks a nursing mother should not be in the same room as them as being guilty of the sin of wrongful judgment. If they are judging her to be immodest they do not understand what modesty is. If they are afraid of social judgment on themselves they are guilty of selfishness in allowing their fear of some potential shame or accusation to overshadow the goodness and kindness of including a nursing mother in full society with those around her. If they are afraid that some small glimpse of a nursing mother's breast will tempt them to lust they are guilty of perverse objectification of the female body and of dishonestly blaming others for any personal moral weakness.

A mother nursing her infant is already being kind, considerate, gentle, forbearing, loving, and patient--towards her infant. She is feeding the hungry. She is loving her neighbor as herself.

If we want a society that values these qualities we need to build a society that encourages such mothers, not one that tells them to shut themselves away or hide under a blanket. We should encourage them to let their light shine, to be an example to other women, and to men, and to children of what it means to care for and nurture another human.

[fairfarmhand]

Just chiming In here to say that my dh is fine with covered nursing around him. Or uncovered in a public place where he could look lots of other places. But uncovered nursing in a private space, like a living room at thanksgiving type place, he’d likely find a way to leave the room. Not because he’s uncomfortable but because he’d never want to be accused of ogling. 

He’s very conscious of the fact that you don’t have to do anything to be accused of doing something.

[Skippy]

I have a different viewpoint/experience than what seems to be represented here. When I see a mom covering up or going to a private space, I think it is probably for her own comfort, and she is not trying to accommodate society or men or whatever.

I am done with nursing, so none of this really applies to me anymore. The way I felt and the way it seems that the nursing moms I know feel, when in a public place, we would prefer a quiet, private space in which to take the baby to nurse for our own comfort. This is much better than nursing in the middle of Target or in my car.

So I don't feel that a company providing a private place for moms to nurse their babies is shunning them. I feel that it is accommodating them.

I am kind of cringing at the way mothers who choose to cover up are portrayed here -- that they look ridiculous wearing a blanket or a tent. I never used this, but the moms I know of that cover with a blanket or whatever are doing it because they prefer coverage over exposure for their own comfort and not for the comfort of others. I hope young moms reading this who prefer using a blanket (or prefer going to a private place) don't feel they look ridiculous or like prudes or anything. I think most people in real life would respect your choice to cover for your comfort and think you look fine. 

[Scarlett]

44 minutes ago, Skippy said:

I have a different viewpoint/experience than what seems to be represented here. When I see a mom covering up or going to a private space, I think it is probably for her own comfort, and she is not trying to accommodate society or men or whatever.

I am done with nursing, so none of this really applies to me anymore. The way I felt and the way it seems that the nursing moms I know feel, when in a public place, we would prefer a quiet, private space in which to take the baby to nurse for our own comfort. This is much better than nursing in the middle of Target or in my car.

So I don't feel that a company providing a private place for moms to nurse their babies is shunning them. I feel that it is accommodating them.

I am kind of cringing at the way mothers who choose to cover up are portrayed here -- that they look ridiculous wearing a blanket or a tent. I never used this, but the moms I know of that cover with a blanket or whatever are doing it because they prefer coverage over exposure for their own comfort and not for the comfort of others. I hope young moms reading this who prefer using a blanket (or prefer going to a private place) don't feel they look ridiculous or like prudes or anything. I think most people in real life would respect your choice to cover for your comfort and think you look fine. 

No, I don’t think that.  I think what was being said is that if the public doesn’t want to be made aware of a baby nursing in their presence that a big covering does not accomplish that.  I think most of us are saying whatever works for mom and baby is what society should happily accept.  

[maize]

1 hour ago, Skippy said:

I have a different viewpoint/experience than what seems to be represented here. When I see a mom covering up or going to a private space, I think it is probably for her own comfort, and she is not trying to accommodate society or men or whatever.

I am done with nursing, so none of this really applies to me anymore. The way I felt and the way it seems that the nursing moms I know feel, when in a public place, we would prefer a quiet, private space in which to take the baby to nurse for our own comfort. This is much better than nursing in the middle of Target or in my car.

So I don't feel that a company providing a private place for moms to nurse their babies is shunning them. I feel that it is accommodating them.

I am kind of cringing at the way mothers who choose to cover up are portrayed here -- that they look ridiculous wearing a blanket or a tent. I never used this, but the moms I know of that cover with a blanket or whatever are doing it because they prefer coverage over exposure for their own comfort and not for the comfort of others. I hope young moms reading this who prefer using a blanket (or prefer going to a private place) don't feel they look ridiculous or like prudes or anything. I think most people in real life would respect your choice to cover for your comfort and think you look fine. 

I don't think anyone is saying that moms should not do what is comfortable to them. Nor arguing that nursing mother's rooms should not be offered.

My point of view is that women should not feel pressure to accommodate everyone else in their choice of how and where to nurse. They should not feel that they will make everyone around them uncomfortable if they nurse uncovered in public and therefore should avoid doing so. If they cover or retreat to a private place because that is what they and their child prefer I fully support that.

If nursing in public and nursing without a cover become more common more women will probably feel comfortable doing so. There will always be plenty of personal variation though.

The thread started with wondering, when an employee in a public location offered a nursing room and then seemed taken aback when it wasn't accepted, was the offer of a nursing room meant for the comfort of the mother OR was it meant to pressure the mother not to nurse where she was. No one is concerned about the first option--we all favor comfortable options for nursing mothers. Pressuring nursing mothers to remove themselves from public locations though, or to always cover up in public locations, represents a problematic attitude towards breastfeeding.

Edited October 23, 2019 by maize

[Skippy]

16 hours ago, maize said:

If we want a society that values these qualities we need to build a society that encourages such mothers, not one that tells them to shut themselves away or hide under a blanket. We should encourage them to let their light shine, to be an example to other women, and to men, and to children of what it means to care for and nurture another human.

If society needs to encourage mothers to uncover, then a young mother could easily interpret this as I am doing something wrong if I am more comfortable covering up or desire privacy. I am not letting my light shine. I am not being a good example to other women and to men and to children of what it means to care for and nurture another human. Young mothers have enough of a struggle learning to nurse their babies without adding the burden of the guilt of halting the progression of society.

Why should women be "encouraged" by society to uncover in front of others if they are not doing so? Some here are making the argument that women should cover up in order to make others comfortable. Correspondingly, some could infer (whether this is intentional or not) that others here are implying women should uncover in order to do their part to change society. This may not be intentional, but can we not see how the above could be interpreted that way?

I am glad if my posts cause others to clarify that they do not in fact feel that way.

There are many reasons why a mother may want to cover up or go to a private place. It may be modesty, religious convictions, shyness, or self-consciousness (such as because of being well-endowed, which was mentioned earlier). Sometimes people forget that while nursing is natural and easy for some mothers, nursing is incredibly difficult for many other women. They have trouble getting the child to attach correctly or have trouble with their hold on the baby. Many women would not want an audience or unsolicited advice during this struggle.

 

 

[SKL]

Right.  I don't like to show my legs, so I wear pants.  I am perfectly fine with other people wearing shorts, with the stores offering shorts for sale, etc.  But I am not responsible for making other women feel better about their legs by showing mine.  😛  I did not have the opportunity to nurse, but if I had, I would have done it as privately as reasonably possible.  I would have appreciated nursing rooms, since they are probably a step or two up from toilet seats.  None of this should imply that other people need to stop nursing in public.

[EmseB]

32 minutes ago, Skippy said:

If society needs to encourage mothers to uncover, then a young mother could easily interpret this as I am doing something wrong if I am more comfortable covering up or desire privacy. I am not letting my light shine. I am not being a good example to other women and to men and to children of what it means to care for and nurture another human. Young mothers have enough of a struggle learning to nurse their babies without adding the burden of the guilt of halting the progression of society.

Why should women be "encouraged" by society to uncover in front of others if they are not doing so? Some here are making the argument that women should cover up in order to make others comfortable. Correspondingly, some could infer (whether this is intentional or not) that others here are implying women should uncover in order to do their part to change society. This may not be intentional, but can we not see how the above could be interpreted that way?

I am glad if my posts cause others to clarify that they do not in fact feel that way.

There are many reasons why a mother may want to cover up or go to a private place. It may be modesty, religious convictions, shyness, or self-consciousness (such as because of being well-endowed, which was mentioned earlier). Sometimes people forget that while nursing is natural and easy for some mothers, nursing is incredibly difficult for many other women. They have trouble getting the child to attach correctly or have trouble with their hold on the baby. Many women would not want an audience or unsolicited advice during this struggle.

 

 

I think I've been a pretty loud voice in this thread for women nursing when and where they need to, and I cover up with a tent-like device when nursing in public and have stated so at least once. So I'm definitely not trying to shame (??) anyone who does so.

The main point I was trying to make is that women should be able to nurse where they need to how they need to, not that they should or shouldn't nurse in any given place.

I actually think it's odd that you could come to this conclusion when the whole thread is basically about how women shouldn't be ashamed to nurse when and where they need to do so, in private or in public,  and many have expressed they use covers or move to different rooms depending on the situation. 

Edited October 23, 2019 by EmseB

[Skippy]

On 10/20/2019 at 1:27 PM, maize said:

Always hiding away to breastfeed, encouraging other women to hide away to breastfeed, or encouraging men to always leave the room when a woman is breastfeeding, might in fact cause someone to stumble by reinforcing exactly such unfortunate and misguided thinking.

I am not trying to pick on anyone, but it was asked why I would come to the conclusion that someone reading this thread could infer that women choosing to hide away to breastfeed is discouraged as a bad influence on others. Comments like the above example are what I am referencing. 

[maize]

1 hour ago, Skippy said:

I am not trying to pick on anyone, but it was asked why I would come to the conclusion that someone reading this thread could infer that women choosing to hide away to breastfeed is discouraged as a bad influence on others. Comments like the above example are what I am referencing. 

I understand your point.

When reading my comments, you might consider the context: I was responding to someone who was quoting scripture about causing others to stumble in justification of a point of view that nursing mothers might make others uncomfortable so they should consider nursing away from mixed company. 

I was pointing out that it was equally reasonable to view a determination to not be seen breastfeeding, and especially pressuring others to not be seen breastfeeding, as potentially causing someone to stumble.

I do think, personally, that given a culture that for the past few generations has frequently discouraged breastfeeding (this was absolutely true in both my grandmother's and mother's generations) and especially public breastfeeding, women who are comfortable nursing in public are contributing to positive social change by doing just that. I do not by any means believe that women who are not comfortable nursing a baby in public should feel obligated to do so or be shamed for not doing so. My primary point is that the comfort of the nursing mother and child come before the comfort of the general public.

And I believe that the more open we as a society become with regards to breastfeeding, the more support and help those women who do struggle will have. So many women of my generation had never even seen a baby breastfed before attempting to do it themselves. I was fortunate in having watched my own mother nurse my seven younger siblings and in having lived in countries where breastfeeding openly was more accepted. I would wish similar familiarity for my own children and their future spouses.

Edited October 23, 2019 by maize

[EmseB]

2 minutes ago, Skippy said:

I am not trying to pick on anyone, but it was asked why I would come to the conclusion that someone reading this thread could infer that women choosing to hide away to breastfeed is discouraged as a bad influence on others. Comments like the above example are what I am referencing. 

Isn't that a separate discussion from what an individual woman is or is not comfortable with?

I dislike arguing from opposite inference/implication in any case. You can take that quote out of the context of the whole thread and infer that maize must be trying to shame women who prefer to nurse privately, or you could go with the idea that she was talking about societal norms and responding to the particular idea floated in this thread that a woman nursing in "mixed company" was immodest even if she was covered.

Also, I fail to understand how normalizing nursing in general would possibly make things *more shameful* for someone who wants to nurse their baby in a private room. The whole point is that women get to be comfortable nursing where they choose to do so because of ther necessity of feeding the baby. But you're saying if it becomes normalized in public, then women would be shamed for wanting privacy? That seems like a huge leap to me, especially since the idea of women nursing in public and why they shouldn't do so has been articulated by a lot of people since formula was brought out as there more civilized, educated choice in ther 50s and 60s. 

[Skippy]

6 minutes ago, EmseB said:

But you're saying if it becomes normalized in public, then women would be shamed for wanting privacy?

Huh? Please quote where I said this? I think you should reread my posts.

 

2 hours ago, EmseB said:

I think I've been a pretty loud voice in this thread for women nursing when and where they need to, and I cover up with a tent-like device when nursing in public and have stated so at least once. So I'm definitely not trying to shame (??) anyone who does so.

I am also confused why you think I was ever commenting on your participation in this thread.

[Skippy]

23 minutes ago, maize said:

I understand your point.

When reading my comments, you might consider the context: I was responding to someone who was quoting scripture about causing others to stumble in justification of a point of view that nursing mothers might make others uncomfortable so they should consider nursing away from mixed company. 

I was pointing out that it was equally reasonable to view a determination to not be seen breastfeeding, and especially pressuring others to not be seen breastfeeding, as potentially causing someone to stumble.

I do think, personally, that given a culture that for the past few generations has frequently discouraged breastfeeding (this was absolutely true in both my grandmother's and mother's generations) and especially public breastfeeding, women who are comfortable nursing in public are contributing to positive social change by doing just that. I do not by any means believe that women who are not comfortable nursing a baby in public should feel obligated to do or be shamed for not doing so. My primary point is that the comfort of the nursing mother and child come before the comfort of the general public.

And I believe that the more open we as a society become with regards to breastfeeding, the more support and help those women who do struggle will have. So many women of my generation had never even seen a baby breastfed before attempting to do it themselves. I was fortunate in having watched my own mother nurse my seven younger siblings and in having lived in countries where breastfeeding openly was more accepted. I would wish similar familiarity for my own children and their future spouses.

Thank you for being understanding about what I was trying to say. I understand what you are saying, too. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

[EmseB]

18 minutes ago, Skippy said:

Huh? Please quote where I said this? I think you should reread my posts.

 

I am also confused why you think I was ever commenting on your participation in this thread.

I thought you were commenting on the thread generally, that the thread could be seen as shaming to those who want privacy or to cover. I was pointing out that myself (and others in the thread) advocating for being able to nurse in public do use covers.

[EmseB]

21 minutes ago, Skippy said:

 

But you're saying if it becomes normalized in public, then women would be shamed for wanting privacy?

Huh? Please quote where I said this? I think you should reread my posts.

These two bits in particular (sorry for the messy post,  I'm on my phone):

 

If society needs to encourage mothers to uncover, then a young mother could easily interpret this as I am doing something wrong if I am more comfortable covering up or desire privacy. I am not letting my light shine

 

Correspondingly, some could infer (whether this is intentional or not) that others here are implying women should uncover in order to do their part to change society. This may not be intentional, but can we not see how the above could be interpreted that way?

[mumto2]

So far I think we have managed to do a great job with this thread........everyone needs to remember that.  I have worked with so many new moms who aren’t necessarily receiving much support at home.  

Women who want to breastfeed their babies need to be supported.  We all need to remember women quit breastfeeding all the time because they are afraid, for a huge list of reasons to do it in a public setting.  The “what if”is the problem usually not the reality.  We all need to encourage woman that it is OK to feed their babies wherever they are.  In many cases they will have a blanket, be wearing easy to nurse in clothing, have an acceptable room available...........but if you don’t it is fine.  The mom who started this situation handled it perfectly and there was no reason to stop feeding and move if she didn’t desire to.

A public setting is forced upon most women at some point,  realistically it just is.   There is absolutely nothing  wrong with under cover. I frankly am pro under cover except it can be too hot at times and not all babies will tolerate it.  My kids never wanted to be covered, I also had a joyous slurpy eater, no hiding that.  I just want the conclusion of this thread to be under cover to be the only acceptable way for a woman to nurse in public because obviously I failed.😉

 I tried to wear clothing that kept potential exposure to a minimum.  I want the mom to be comfortable which means handling the nursing in public question how the mom wishes too.  I just don’t want women to feel forced to go find a bathroom in order to nurse.  Honestly the clothing etc is great,  even I don’t always know that the mom holding the cute baby is actually nursing.

 

[dirty ethel rackham]

21 hours ago, maize said:

I think the principles you have outlined are generally good and true.

Where you and I may differ is in our perception of the value and goodness of a mother feeding her infant and the problematic and yes sinful attitude of those who would perceive a mother feeding her infant as in any way doing something improper or needing to be hidden away.

I do see a person who thinks a nursing mother should not be in the same room as them as being guilty of the sin of wrongful judgment. If they are judging her to be immodest they do not understand what modesty is. If they are afraid of social judgment on themselves they are guilty of selfishness in allowing their fear of some potential shame or accusation to overshadow the goodness and kindness of including a nursing mother in full society with those around her. If they are afraid that some small glimpse of a nursing mother's breast will tempt them to lust they are guilty of perverse objectification of the female body and of dishonestly blaming others for any personal moral weakness.

A mother nursing her infant is already being kind, considerate, gentle, forbearing, loving, and patient--towards her infant. She is feeding the hungry. She is loving her neighbor as herself.

If we want a society that values these qualities we need to build a society that encourages such mothers, not one that tells them to shut themselves away or hide under a blanket. We should encourage them to let their light shine, to be an example to other women, and to men, and to children of what it means to care for and nurture another human.

This!!! A thousand times, this!  How eloquently put!

21 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

The bolded is so beautifully expressed. 

The breastfeedng infant is the other whose comfort a nursing mother puts above her own. 

But because the infant and mother form a dyad, the infant's comfort flows (quite literally) from the mother's comfort,  and by choosing to feed in a manner in which she is comfortable, the mother meets the infant's needs.  There is no way in which one can serve the breastfeeding infant whilst shaming or otherwise repressing the breastfeeding mother.

Yes!  And I love how you managed a "whilst" in there ... perhaps my American is showing.  

[Ausmumof3]

On 10/19/2019 at 3:28 PM, Melissa in Australia said:

Yes. she is a charming SIL. I am so glad she is on the other side of the world.

I thought Canadians were meant to be polite!

[Ausmumof3]

Im one who appreciates a quiet room for feeding.  Oldest was a shockingly distractible nurser and I nursed older toddlers.  Plus in social settings I loved the excuse to go have some alone time.  So I would just take it as a kind offer and decline if I didn’t want it.

[Melissa in Australia]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I thought Canadians were meant to be polite!

I am sure there must be some polite ones, just not some that  I am related to.

[maize]

5 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I can’t decide whether this is heart breaking or hilarious - of course you’d get the crazy relatives, because life just wasn’t stressful enough right?

If you are going to have difficult relatives, keeping them on a distant continent is definitely the way to go though!

[Xahm]

On the idea that some mothers will feel shamed for wanting to cover up or go to a private room to nurse if public nursing becomes the default: I think this will happen to a certain extent just because it is so easy to feel shamed when feeling vulnerable and unsure. Probably most of us have had a time when we felt shamed or judged while we were trying to figure out this parenting thing, even though no one was actually judging or trying to shame us. Like in the original story that started this thread. Maybe the woman offering the private area was making a statement against nursing in public, or maybe she was just being awkward because she knows it can be a touchy subject and didn't want to appear judgemental but was worried she had. A brand-new mom would likely be far more shaken by the experience than a pro like the op. I'm convinced a large part, though sadly not nearly all, of the mommy wars are in our own heads. We are so self critical that we read judgement or attack into benign statements. This may have even happened once or twice on this very thread. I've been working on this in myself, but I have no idea how to help the problem on a more macro level.

[Momto6inIN]

1 hour ago, xahm said:

On the idea that some mothers will feel shamed for wanting to cover up or go to a private room to nurse if public nursing becomes the default: I think this will happen to a certain extent just because it is so easy to feel shamed when feeling vulnerable and unsure. Probably most of us have had a time when we felt shamed or judged while we were trying to figure out this parenting thing, even though no one was actually judging or trying to shame us. Like in the original story that started this thread. Maybe the woman offering the private area was making a statement against nursing in public, or maybe she was just being awkward because she knows it can be a touchy subject and didn't want to appear judgemental but was worried she had. A brand-new mom would likely be far more shaken by the experience than a pro like the op. I'm convinced a large part, though sadly not nearly all, of the mommy wars are in our own heads. We are so self critical that we read judgement or attack into benign statements. This may have even happened once or twice on this very thread. I've been working on this in myself, but I have no idea how to help the problem on a more macro level.

So so so true!!!

[JamesKing]

Unfortunately, i can't say something exactly, because my kid wasn't on breastfeeding, but i can say that if it is needed feed your kid and that's it. A woman can't control when a child starts yelling and gets hungry... It is terrible that there are such people who think that feeding your baby is  disgusting. Of course, I'm not saying that you need to show your breasts to everyone , but I don't think that she behaved like that. There is artificial nutrition , but many parents are against this method. There are many brands that manage to add a lot of chemicals ... but fortunately there are also conscientious companies that think about children. For example kendamil formula for infants which includes only the natural ingredients really helped me in the feeding period.

Edited September 17, 2020 by JamesKing

[fairfarmhand]

Zombie thread.

[EmseB]

Aww, a thread from when my baby was a newborn!! I don't  even remember writing a lot of this, lol.

[Momto6inIN]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

Aww, a thread from when my baby was a newborn!! I don't  even remember writing a lot of this, lol.

I know! My baby from the OP is weaned now and seeing this thread pop up again made me kind of wistful ...

[maize]

16 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

I know! My baby from the OP is weaned now and seeing this thread pop up again made me kind of wistful ...

Zombie threads often turn out to be a bit nostalgic!

I haven't been able to bring myself to wean my three year old; I think I'm holding onto his babyhood.

[Paige]

13 hours ago, maize said:

Zombie threads often turn out to be a bit nostalgic!

I haven't been able to bring myself to wean my three year old; I think I'm holding onto his babyhood.

Me too, but he's not quite 3. Mostly because he won't cooperate, but I might try harder if he wasn't the last.