Jump to content

Menu

Breastfeeding in public question


Momto6inIN
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

Yes, I understand what you're saying. Most of the breastfeeding moms I've been around do not fully cover in that way. They might just have their shirt covering baby a little, or throw a light blanket on, which babies tend to yank off. I don't think it's modest with men or boys in the room to possibly expose breasts--just like I wouldn't be comfortable changing in front of men even if I was trying to do it under another layer of clothing, KWIM?

Again, in a group of just women, I have no objection. Don't cover up at all if you don't want.

Then, there is the issue of making others uncomfortable. I know people have said, "That's their problem...they should deal with it." Okay. But I personally think it's kind not to knowingly make others uncomfortable if there is a good alternative. (I am NOT talking about public bathrooms--I am talking about comfortable spaces.) Virtually all of the men I know would be uncomfortable with someone other than their wife breastfeeding in front of them.

Someone might say, "Well, what about MY comfort?" I think--if possible--it's kind and honorable to put others before ourselves. Ideally the men would remember this, put the bf-ing mom's needs first, and leave the room themselves if they are uncomfortable. But if they can't leave for some reason and the bf-ing woman can, and she knows she is making others uncomfortable, I can't see staying just for the sake of principle. 

Well, I'll admit my perspective is a woman in house full of boys and if I had to go somewhere private to nurse so as to not make my tweens uncomfortable with books and nursing I'd be pretty restricted. On the other hand, they are growing up learning that women's bodies are not just for One Thing and they aren't unrealistically attractive or fake. So I count it as a win overall.

I go to a very conservative church where literally no men are uncomfortable with a woman nursing in the sanctuary with a cover. Or at least they recognize their discomfort with a woman wearing a tent is not something they should voice  I also do not typically encounter a lot of bfing moms who don't make some effort to stay covered, but to me a nip slip while nursing might make someone uncomfortable, but that's kind of part of being in society with moms and babies.

And it's not as if I discount others comfort entirely (which is why I make my best effort to cover), but in a public place I'm not going to hide away feeding my kids either,  especially when most people I've encountered who have a real issue with nursing think a public restroom is a reasonable alternative. I understand this isn't what you're talking about, but most people who oppose nursing in public aren't coming from your nuanced perspective. And if I'm totally covered up with no possibility of anyone seeing even a tiny glimpse of nudity? Then, no, their discomfort with the act of nursing is not something I'm going to take into consideration at all because it isn't reasonable any more than being uncomfortable with women wearing pants is reasonable.

Also, I feel the need to leave this link here, snark and all because everyone needs this song stuck in their head at some point. 

 

  • Like 4
  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of you are much more vehemently pro-breast feeding than I am. I understand that you are passionate about this topic. 

I cannot see myself agreeing any time soon that exposed breasts are not immodest. I've talked about my views on modesty at length in other threads and to be honest don't have the time or energy or desire to repeat myself. 😉

I also can't agree that making a point about breastfeeding is worth making other people uncomfortable. YMMV and that's okay! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Most of you are much more vehemently pro-breast feeding than I am. I understand that you are passionate about this topic. 

I cannot see myself agreeing any time soon that exposed breasts are not immodest. I've talked about my views on modesty at length in other threads and to be honest don't have the time or energy or desire to repeat myself. 😉

I also can't agree that making a point about breastfeeding is worth making other people uncomfortable. YMMV and that's okay! 

I think it's more frustrating  that you (or anyone) think a nursing mother would be trying to make a point by nursing in a public space other than (maybe) not wanting to be socially isolated. I'm just trying to feed my baby. Everyone gets to sit in the food court and eat and chat except for me because my baby is eating? I do think others should put the welfare of hungry babies ahead of their own discomfort or personal bugaboos and pet peeves, so I gather you think it should be the opposite and the women and children should be the ones deferring? I guess I can't come around on that.

But I guess I don't encounter a lot of women who show any more than a brief second of nudity while nursing, if that. If I was living in an area where women routinely took off their shirts to nurse in public in order to make some kind of point (???) maybe I would share your sentiments more readily?

I also reject the idea than anyone here has been vehement about any of this. Again, I'm just feeding my baby. I take that back: I guess I am vehemently pro-feeding babies, even in public, if they are hungry. The mechanics of it are incidental.  I'm not vehement or overly emotional about this in any sense. 

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, MercyA said:

@EmseB, I appreciate your honest and thoughtful post. Unfortunately the video at the end seems to me dismissive and crass. 😬I'm not a humorless person, but it's not the kind of thing that's going to win people over.  

Not trying to win anyone over with that video, rest assured. 🙂 As I stated it's obviously snark (sarcasm with a pointed message to people who may not agree).

The larger point being, if people feel their day is ruined by seeing a nursing mom because of books, then, yeah, it's kind of funny to me the same way that video is funny. After five kids, I can only laugh about it or I'd make myself crazy trying to isolate myself from real life sho I can breastfeed.  Then it follows, ther other point is that none of us nursing moms are doing so to make others uncomfortable, we're just living our lives. Not trying to ruin anyone's day. And anyone whose day is ruined by it is, in fact, unreasonable. 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I also can't agree that making a point about breastfeeding is worth making other people uncomfortable. YMMV and that's okay! 

Nobody is trying to make anyone uncomfortable. If a person feels uncomfortable with a breastfeeding mother in the room, that says more about them than it does about the mother. Nursing mothers are not trying to make a point. Their baby just wants to eat. If *I* feel uncomfortable,  because my clothing isn't nursing friendly or whatever, I will leave the room. But I don't have to leave because it makes someone else uncomfortable to be reminded that babies eat from breasts.

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, lewelma said:

The only people here who cover up with blankets or wear nursing shirts are the Americans. In NZ, you don't even have to be that discreet. I've definitely seen a boob before, and I always see tummies and backs because women just wear regular clothes and feed anywhere they want.

Ruth in NZ

Same here. I always wore a button down the front top or dress.  

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, maize said:

I think the discomfort stems from the fact that we as a society have forgotten that the primary purpose of female breasts is to feed babies and instead view them as primarily sexual objects.

The way to undo that misconception is to normalize breastfeeding, not hide it away.

Lips may also be seen as sexual/sensual but we don't think of that as their primary purpose so no one is embarrassed by people walking around with their mouths exposed.

In societies where public breastfeeding is the norm men and boys are not uncomfortable around women breastfeeding.

this

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty surprised that more than one person has mentioned boys or men trying to get a glance when someone is breastfeeding. I'm thankful to say that I've never witnessed that level of desperation, lol. I've seen young children, both boys and girls, try to watch the feeding if they're only familiar with bottles, but never anyone with a more, um, prurient interest. I mean, is it happening in areas that only have dial-up internet? 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have assumed that the employee was uncomfortable about my breastfeeding there, but I would have carried on.

About privacy: a pleasingly silly occurrence. The first major social event we went to with our first son was a Burns Night party, so he would have been around a month old. The party was noisy and crowded, and there was nowhere to sit down, so I went to the bedroom where the coats were chucked to feed him. After a short time, the host came in, apologised for disturbing me, and asked if it was okay if he changed out of his kilt. His twin brother was borrowing it for an event the next day and needed to leave to catch a plane. He warned me that Scots do indeed wear nothing underneath. So we each averted our eyes  from the other's possible exposure, and carried on.

  • Like 5
  • Haha 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, MercyA said:

Most of you are much more vehemently pro-breast feeding than I am. I understand that you are passionate about this topic. 

I cannot see myself agreeing any time soon that exposed breasts are not immodest. I've talked about my views on modesty at length in other threads and to be honest don't have the time or energy or desire to repeat myself. 😉

I also can't agree that making a point about breastfeeding is worth making other people uncomfortable. YMMV and that's okay! 


This is fair, but may I raise another point?  You don't seem to have a problem with artificial nipples anywhere and everywhere, or artificial breast receptacles that are made to mimic the size, shape, and feel for an infant to feed from.  These are not raised up in conversation as something to be hidden away.

I have a beautiful picture dh took in an art gallery of me nursing the youngest while looking at a portrait of the Madonna in the same act with baby Jesus.  I would have a hard time labeling her with the negative "immodest" and yet I cannot apply the same statement to myself and disregard the art and beauty.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could hardly make better points than @EmseB and @maize made in their posts; it’s pretty much exactly my thoughts on this subject. 

IMO, men feeling that the actual function of breasts is dirty or indecent very definitely harkens to patriarchal notions that a woman’s breasts are primarily for sexual pleasure and for him to look at. Many notions of beauty and sexiness are built on women’s body parts NOT being maternal. I think some men do think it’s a buzz kill to be “forced” to acknowledge breasts as maternal, not sexual. 

When I had nursing babies, there were certain situations where I could not feel comfortable nursing in certain company, but it was typically when the setting was already intimate. So, for example, if I’m sitting on the coach with my BIL and a couple of nephews, no, that’s already too intimate a setting and the others would probably struggle with not appearing to look at me while also not appearing to ignore me. But, by contrast, if I were at a food court in the mall, there isn’t any reason why anyone has to pay any attention to me and if they feel uncomfortable to know I’m nursing then they can just not look/go away. 

I want the US to become more like other places in the world that couldn’t care less if a woman is nursing a kid. 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm so thankful that my boys and my dh don't bat an eye at the idea of someone breastfeeding.  Probably because there was so much of it going on as my boys were growing up.  My dil feeds her babies here in front of her brothers-in-law and my dh all the time.  She is completely discreet about it but is nonchalant about it, too. 

Maybe some of the discomfort for men also depends on the comfort level of the nursing mom?

My sil and I used to joke when we had our babies that we could clear a room of male relatives just by walking in and sitting down -lol! Never stopped us.  We just let the guys leave and got on with the job.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Farrar said:

I almost never fed one baby alone, so I always got looks if I fed in public. I probably would have taken the room, just because there was little way to be absolutely discreet with two. My most common way to feed in public was actually to open the back of the car. I actually kept a nursing pillow back there. And then I'd leave it open and just sit back there with babies.

I find it much weirder to be really private about it. Once when a friend had a newborn, I went to visit. She left to change and feed the baby. And then I finished whatever it was and unthinkingly tried to go join her upstairs. And when I got up there, she shrieked at me, "Don't come in! I'm breastfeeding!!!" The way she said it, you've have thought she was stark naked and I was a total stranger. Which I was like, holy crap, seriously? Of course I respected her wishes, but it was sort of the opposite of the time I breastfed my duo together on a bench in a shopping mall.

Yeah, when I nursed twins, I tried to do it individually as much as possible, in part because letdown was so fierce it was hard on the baby as well, lol. I'd rock one in her little chair with my foot while I nursed the other. But when they were exclusively breastfed, I had to do several nursings a day at the same time, because it increased milk supply. There was no way that was discreet, so I never did that in public. I did have a friend follow me to the bedroom out of curiosity, and that felt a bit weird, because I was quite exposed, lol. I don't think I ever got weird/mean comments when I was nursing one baby though. Probably because it was a long time ago, and most people didn't realize what I was doing. The only time it has ever made me uncomfortable to be around others who were nursing was when I was in college. A friend and I were working in another state for the summer, and a family invited us for dinner. The parents, their adult daughter, sil and children were there, as well as another daughter and a couple of teenaged sons. In mixed company, the adult daughter popped it out in full view, set up the baby, and nursed. No self-consciousness at all, except on our part. 👀

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

Actually, I have one story! A few weeks ago I was nursing in a church meeting of all women. I don't remember if I had a blanket or not, but it was discreet. I noticed an older woman staring at me. After the meeting she asked me if I had been nursing my baby.  I braced myself for a comment about the appropriateness of it, but then she asked me HOW I was breastfeeding in a dress. I excitedly told her it was a nursing dress. Lol. Here is my plug for latchedmama.com nursing clothes. I wish these had been a thing and that I had know about them before baby #7. 😄 I have a couple dresses and a couple of their shirts. They are convenient. Sometimes where I nurse depends on what I am wearing because shirts do ride up in the back when I nursing. But nursing shirts are awesome for that!

 

12 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

Yes! Where were these shirts for the first 5 of my kids???? I absolutely looooooove the nursing nightgowns and the shirts. Haven't tried the dresses because I'm more of a skirt/top person than a dress person.

I had nursing shirts and dresses when I was nursing my oldest 21 years ago. Maybe they went away for a while? I even had a nursing swimsuit. It was awesome! 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, MercyA said:

Yes, I understand what you're saying. Most of the breastfeeding moms I've been around do not fully cover in that way. They might just have their shirt covering baby a little, or throw a light blanket on, which babies tend to yank off. I don't think it's modest with men or boys in the room to possibly expose breasts--just like I wouldn't be comfortable changing in front of men even if I was trying to do it under another layer of clothing, KWIM?

Again, in a group of just women, I have no objection. Don't cover up at all if you don't want.

Then, there is the issue of making others uncomfortable. I know people have said, "That's their problem...they should deal with it." Okay. But I personally think it's kind not to knowingly make others uncomfortable if there is a good alternative. (I am NOT talking about public bathrooms--I am talking about comfortable spaces.) Virtually all of the men I know would be uncomfortable with someone other than their wife breastfeeding in front of them.

Someone might say, "Well, what about MY comfort?" I think--if possible--it's kind and honorable to put others before ourselves. Ideally the men would remember this, put the bf-ing mom's needs first, and leave the room themselves if they are uncomfortable. But if they can't leave for some reason and the bf-ing woman can, and she knows she is making others uncomfortable, I can't see staying just for the sake of principle. 

I do find somewhere else to nurse around, for example, my 78yo FIL who is a wonderful godly man whose wife nursed 7 children but who is very conservative and while he would never ever say anything to me about it he would be very internally embarrassed. Or at church where we have a very convenient nursing room with several other mothers who use it and where I feel nursing might be disruptive to some people's concentration and enjoyment of the service. Or when I hosted a gaggle of tween/teen boys in our home, LOL. So I do definitely agree with you that looking out for someone else's comfort can and should be taken into account, and it's not just all about MY comfort. 

I am willing to make reasonable accommodations for others, but not extreme accommodations, like @Quill's Disneyworld example, and not when doing so would really disrupt my plans, like not being able to meet up with my son.

I also think there's something to be said for extending grace to moms of babies, as we all know that that first year is basically just a matter of being in constant survival mode. So whether it's @Farrar with her twins in the back of the van or @Arctic Mama with her large chest, I think we can all decide to give each other the benefit of the doubt that if a mom is doing something with her baby in public, chances are there is a good reason for it, and she's not doing it just to make a point.

Edited by Momto6inIN
Eta or be an exhibitionist
  • Like 7
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I EP'd for DD due to oral-motor issue due to prematurity, and I actually had the opposite happen at a children's hospital-I asked if there was a nursing room (because usually those will have an outlet so I could plug in the pump, a sink to wash out the parts, and sometimes even a microwave so I could run them through and steam them), and was told "oh, honey, we're nursing friendly, so just sit anywhere you want". It took a bit to convince her that, no, I really needed the separate space (I ended up in an office).

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

Here is where I sheepishly admit that sometimes I use breastfeeding as an excuse to leave a room. Like when the ILs are visiting and my introverted self can't take it anymore.... I go and nurse the baby in our bedroom. 😄

Yes! Sometimes I welcomed the chance to go to a quiet place for awhile. Whether I left the room or not, often had to do with the distractibility of the baby. Once most of mine reached about 4 months, they couldn't focus to actually eat well when there was a lot of conversation or there were other things going on around them. So they'd go on, then off, then on, then off, and wreak havoc with spraying milk, etc. That made a quiet room with few distractions for 20 minutes seem much more time efficient and less stressful for me!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I exclusively wore breastfeeding clothes for a couple of years. At first because I couldn't go out without them and then because I had bought so much that I didn't have anything else. 

It was a strange curse. At least with twins, I was locked down to wherever I was. So sometimes I wished people would leave and other times I was trapped and no one would come visit me. I remember the first Christmas when my boys were just a few months old. At several points, no one would move the socializing into the living room and I couldn't very well breastfeed in the kitchen or the dining room, so I felt very isolated. And when I complained, I got chastised by my mother about how it was my choice to be in there for so long. It was especially bad because my boys were such terrible sleepers - if we tried to move them, they always woke up. So then I wasn't really there while they fed. I was there trapped between them for the whole time they fed and then for the whole nap unless I wanted to deal with crying babies. If I was out and about, that was just something I'd deal with, but I did need them to get sleep. Sigh. So long ago now though.

  • Like 2
  • Sad 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I exclusively wore breastfeeding clothes for a couple of years. At first because I couldn't go out without them and then because I had bought so much that I didn't have anything else. 

It was a strange curse. At least with twins, I was locked down to wherever I was. So sometimes I wished people would leave and other times I was trapped and no one would come visit me. I remember the first Christmas when my boys were just a few months old. At several points, no one would move the socializing into the living room and I couldn't very well breastfeed in the kitchen or the dining room, so I felt very isolated. And when I complained, I got chastised by my mother about how it was my choice to be in there for so long. It was especially bad because my boys were such terrible sleepers - if we tried to move them, they always woke up. So then I wasn't really there while they fed. I was there trapped between them for the whole time they fed and then for the whole nap unless I wanted to deal with crying babies. If I was out and about, that was just something I'd deal with, but I did need them to get sleep. Sigh. So long ago now though.

 

I get so frustrated when society puts pressure on mothers of infants and young children to make sure they are being accommodating to everyone around them. 

Mothers of infants and young children are living their entire lives accommodating the needs of the children. They do not need social pressure to accommodate other adults or teens or whoever by making sure that their efforts to meet the needs of their children never ever inconvenience or embarrass someone else.

Moms need more support, not more pressure and stress.

  • Like 11
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't had twins but have tandem nursed multiple pairs of infants and toddlers. Two nursing simultaneously though always made me feel like I wanted to crawl out of my skin--way too much sensory discomfort. Mostly I tried to trade off.

Edited by maize
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, EmseB said:

I do think others should put the welfare of hungry babies ahead of their own discomfort or personal bugaboos and pet peeves, so I gather you think it should be the opposite and the women and children should be the ones deferring? I guess I can't come around on that.

 Actually what I said was:

Someone might say, "Well, what about MY comfort?" I think--if possible--it's kind and honorable to put others before ourselves. Ideally the men would remember this, put the bf-ing mom's needs first, and leave the room themselves if they are uncomfortable. But if they can't leave for some reason and the bf-ing woman can, and she knows she is making others uncomfortable, I can't see staying just for the sake of principle. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, maize said:

I haven't had twins but have tandem nursed multiple pairs of infants and toddlers. Two nursing simultaneously though always made me feel like I wanted to crawl out of my skin--way too much sensory discomfort. Mostly I tried to trade off.

I tandem fed my first 2 since they were 17 months apart, and no one warned me about this being a thing! It was hard and grew harder as time went on and I started to feel anger at my sweet toddler just for wanting to nurse. It all worked out, but I think that's part of the reason I want nursing, and nursing in public, to be more normalized. If children grow up seeing nursing, seeing babies held in different positions, seeing the mom grimace but go on when the baby takes a nip or when let down is strong and they suddenly grab the other breast to keep from pouring, and so on, those kids are going to have a much easier time nursing or supporting a partner in nursing. They will have an easier time knowing what is normal pain and what pain indicates a problem. 

 

Also, my nearly 90 year old Grandpa, who blushes when people curse in the presence of ladies and grew up on a ranch in Montana finds it odd and a little amusing that women feel a need to hide while nursing babies. That's not something he grew up with, at all, and I hope that's the attitude that takes (back) over.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

5 hours ago, Quill said:

IMO, men feeling that the actual function of breasts is dirty or indecent very definitely harkens to patriarchal notions that a woman’s breasts are primarily for sexual pleasure and for him to look at. Many notions of beauty and sexiness are built on women’s body parts NOT being maternal. I think some men do think it’s a buzz kill to be “forced” to acknowledge breasts as maternal, not sexual. 

I don't know anyone like this and have never heard anyone express anything like this. For me and for those in my church and family, it really just is as simple as this: breasts are private parts of a woman's body that should be kept covered for modesty. It's not complicated, and it doesn't have anything to do with patriarchy or perversion. Men--especially the men I know--don't want to see a friend or family member's uncovered breasts or know they might accidentally see them if they're not averting their eyes. I don't think that's prudishness. I think it's righteousness and I think it's honoring to the women they know. I don't expect everyone to agree with my view.

Edited by MercyA
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

Nobody is trying to make anyone uncomfortable. If a person feels uncomfortable with a breastfeeding mother in the room, that says more about them than it does about the mother. Nursing mothers are not trying to make a point. Their baby just wants to eat. If *I* feel uncomfortable,  because my clothing isn't nursing friendly or whatever, I will leave the room. But I don't have to leave because it makes someone else uncomfortable to be reminded that babies eat from breasts.

I think it is kind and Biblical not to knowingly make others uncomfortable even if we feel they have no good reason to be.

One example comes to mind. I like to drink alcohol. There's nothing wrong with me having a glass of wine. I am not ashamed of it. I am not sinning. But I won't do it in front of a fellow believer whom it would offend, even though I could conceivably say the problem is with them, not with me. From Romans 14: "Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love...So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding... It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, MercyA said:

 

I don't know anyone like this and have never heard anyone express anything like this. For me and for those in my church and family, it really just is as simple as this: breasts are private parts of a woman's body that should be kept covered for modesty. It's not complicated, and it doesn't have anything to do with patriarchy or perversion. Men--especially the men I know--don't want to see a friend or family member's uncovered breasts or know they might accidentally see them if they're not averting their eyes. I don't think that's prudishness. I think it's righteousness and I think it's honoring to the women they know.

Alright, well let me challenge your thinking on this. I do not think this is mostly or usually a conscious thought men have. But many, many aspects of what is considered typical (American) beauty and sexiness IS divorced from the maternal; I would even say holds to an ideal of youth AND childlessness. Why are high heels sexy? IMO, it is because they disable a woman from running away, they make her vulnerable. Why are special occasion clothes for woman so likely to be small, restrictive and made out of a fabric inadequate for protection against the weather or against an attack? Because she is vulnerable in those clothes. Also, a lot of men who are bothered by a woman bfing, even if she is carefully covered, are NOT AT ALL bothered by a woman wearing a low-cut top where you see cleavage or by women wearing bikinis or by women wearing skimpy exercise attire. My conclusion is: they are bothered by the use of breasts for non-sexy, maternal purposes. 

Let me ask you this: do you only see this discomfort when breasts are visibly being used for feeding babies? Or is it bothersome merely that it is apparent the baby is nursing? Because really, the number of times I have seen a woman nursing with a breast out for the world to see is vanishingly small. Like, I could count them on one hand and, in every instance, it was in female-only company, like one time at a Mommy and Me group or another time at a midwife’s office. In my (American) experience, the large majority of nursing woman like to have their body covered. They like for it to be unlikely someone will see their boob or niplle. If this were not true, there would be no such invention as nursing clothes or nursing capes. 

IMO, men who dislike a woman nursing in public are reacting to the fact that nursing is maternal and it is a non-sexy application of breasts. 

Off soapbox now...

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I think it is kind and Biblical not to knowingly make others uncomfortable even if we feel they have no good reason to be.

One example comes to mind. I like to drink alcohol. There's nothing wrong with me having a glass of wine. I am not ashamed of it. I am not sinning. But I won't do it in front of a fellow believer whom it would offend, even though I could conceivably say the problem is with them, not with me. From Romans 14: "Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love...So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding... It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble."

Many generally true principles can be taken too far.

If someone is offended by being in the presence of an infant feeding the way God obviously intended infants to feed, it is not my responsibility to accommodate their hangup. Someone who stumbles because of a baby feeding has issues that are beyond my ability to resolve.

  • Like 14
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I think it is kind and Biblical not to knowingly make others uncomfortable even if we feel they have no good reason to be.

One example comes to mind. I like to drink alcohol. There's nothing wrong with me having a glass of wine. I am not ashamed of it. I am not sinning. But I won't do it in front of a fellow believer whom it would offend, even though I could conceivably say the problem is with them, not with me. From Romans 14: "Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love...So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding... It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble."

But, Mercy, is it not true that people can be uncomfortable about things when they truly ARE the one who needs to change? It wasn’t long ago in our country’s history that it was extremely easy to find someone who found it offensive for a black or dark-skinned person to be in a relationship with a white person. When that movie with Kevin Costner and Whitney Houston came out (was it called The Bodyguard?) it was in the 90s IIRC, and it was considered ground breaking because a black woman and a white man kissed in that movie. Whitney Houston! A beautiful black woman! *KISSING* Kevin Costner, a white man! 

Now? That is so pedestrian. Which it should be! Love who you love...

In some respect, yes, I do agree we should not make others uncomfortable solely because “oh well, they can get over it.” I am a very sensitive person and a peacenik and I really, really dislike doing something that I know is going to cause someone else discomfort. So, for instance, when my vegan friends are coming to my house, I would certainly never hold a pig roast. That would be unspeakably crass of me! Or when my teetotaler parents come here, I’m not going to make Coque a Vin and Rum Cake. I defer to the thing that will give them comfort instead of causing them intentional distress. But if the person who is discomfited is the one in the wrong, then truly, that person needs to adapt. We don’t coddle to the person with wrong ideas. That’s what’s going on when people (particularly men) are bothered by the mere fact a baby is being bf, which, IME, is usually what it is - it’s not flagrant boob-brandishing. It’s the mere thought that there’s a breast being used for non-sexy purposes. 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have mentioned on the board before that I spent roughly 10 years working with nursing moms as a volunteer for a large teaching hospital.  That needs to be said first because I have interacted with a huge number of nursing moms from many cultures and the ability for moms to feel comfortable bfing in public is so important.  It’s wonderful when places create nice comfy lounges for women to go to but it shouldn’t be awful for someone to feed their baby in the library, for instance.  

 For many moms nursing in public becomes a bit of a barrier to continuing to nurse......if you are nursing you probably don’t have a bottle ready if your errands take longer than expected but if you are bottle feeding you can always be prepared.  I have seen so many moms start weaning because they didn’t know what to do, were embarrassed, didn’t want to feed in the bathroom........my list goes on.  That means moms frequently stop bfing earlier than planned or desired because of embarrassment.  For that reason I am a cheerleader to women who feed in public......yeah, I prefer the discreet, non boob baring feedings,  but it is important for moms to have the choice and feel that it is OK.  I am the old lady who whispers to a mom that she is doing great as I walk by if I see someone bfing who doesn’t look comfortable.

  • Like 12
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I think it is kind and Biblical not to knowingly make others uncomfortable even if we feel they have no good reason to be.

One example comes to mind. I like to drink alcohol. There's nothing wrong with me having a glass of wine. I am not ashamed of it. I am not sinning. But I won't do it in front of a fellow believer whom it would offend, even though I could conceivably say the problem is with them, not with me. From Romans 14: "Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love...So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding... It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble."

I'm quoting this one more time because it is still niggling at me.

It might be worth considering that reinforcing a person's mistaken opinions may also be seen as causing them to stumble.

I would not want to be accountable for reinforcing in anyone the idea that breastfeeding is somehow shameful, or that a woman's breasts may only and always be viewed as sexual objects either for the gratification or dangerous temptation of men.

Always hiding away to breastfeed, encouraging other women to hide away to breastfeed, or encouraging men to always leave the room when a woman is breastfeeding, might in fact cause someone to stumble by reinforcing exactly such unfortunate and misguided thinking.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Quill said:

Why are high heels sexy? IMO, it is because they disable a woman from running away, they make her vulnerable. Why are special occasion clothes for woman so likely to be small, restrictive and made out of a fabric inadequate for protection against the weather or against an attack? Because she is vulnerable in those clothes.

I don't think most men are attracted to those types of styles because they make a woman look vulnerable. That implies that all men are looking for an "easy mark" or that they are predatory in some way, which is not really a fair characterization of most men. I think fashion is actually a whole lot more about what women *think* men want to see or possibly what women find sexy about themselves or other women.

Most men would agree that high heels and flimsy clothes are sexy, but I think that's simply because they are highly visually stimulated and you can see more of a woman's body through flimsy clothes and because high heels make you thrust your chest out in order to be able to walk upright 😛

I do agree with your broader point that many people (esp men) who are offended by bf'ing are not offended in the slightest by women wearing skimpy clothes and showing breasts in non-maternal ways, which is completely hypocritical.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

I don't think most men are attracted to those types of styles because they make a woman look vulnerable. That implies that all men are looking for an "easy mark" or that they are predatory in some way, which is not really a fair characterization of most men. I think fashion is actually a whole lot more about what women *think* men want to see or possibly what women find sexy about themselves or other women.

Most men would agree that high heels and flimsy clothes are sexy, but I think that's simply because they are highly visually stimulated and you can see more of a woman's body through flimsy clothes and because high heels make you thrust your chest out in order to be able to walk upright 😛

I do agree with your broader point that many people (esp men) who are offended by bf'ing are not offended in the slightest by women wearing skimpy clothes and showing breasts in non-maternal ways, which is completely hypocritical.

I don’t think it’s conscious. I don’t think guys go, “mmmmwwwhaha! Look at those stilettos! Not a chance she can run away in those...” I think the culture has shaped men into thinking - and then women into complying - with the idea that defenseless women are sexy and beautiful, while women in functional clothing/shoes are less, or not at all, sexy. Why are long fingernails sexy? They make it hard to do anything functional. They hamper a woman’s use of her hands for dexterous purposes. Why is there such a thing as sexy bras? Sometimes women wear bras that look a certain way at the expense of a bra that provides the support she needs. This doesn’t make sense. 

*Look at me, sounding like some big feminist when that has really never been true of me at all...

 

  • Like 3
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

 Actually what I said was:

Someone might say, "Well, what about MY comfort?" I think--if possible--it's kind and honorable to put others before ourselves. Ideally the men would remember this, put the bf-ing mom's needs first, and leave the room themselves if they are uncomfortable. But if they can't leave for some reason and the bf-ing woman can, and she knows she is making others uncomfortable, I can't see staying just for the sake of principle. 

How would I know if I'm making someone uncomfortable? Logistically speaking, it's going to be difficult for me to move once I've got a baby latched on and find out someone doesn't want me nursing in their presence. I wouldn't stay out of any principle other than my baby needs to eat and will likely be super distracted or angry if I get up and move. I still don't know where you are getting this idea that nursing women are doing these things out of principle rather than practicality of just feeding their babies when they are hungry.

In a family or someone else's home I usually ask first if they care where I nurse. In public this isn't really possible to survey a whole library or store or restaurant. But it isn't principle or passion that leads me to nurse in public anymore than it would be for a bottle-feeding mom. 

I thought your posts were saying that bfing with men around was immodest or discomfiting regardless, so I'm sorry for misreading and misrepresenting.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Quill said:

I don’t think it’s conscious. I don’t think guys go, “mmmmwwwhaha! Look at those stilettos! Not a chance she can run away in those...” I think the culture has shaped men into thinking - and then women into complying - with the idea that defenseless women are sexy and beautiful, while women in functional clothing/shoes are less, or not at all, sexy. Why are long fingernails sexy? They make it hard to do anything functional. They hamper a woman’s use of her hands for dexterous purposes. Why is there such a thing as sexy bras? Sometimes women wear bras that look a certain way at the expense of a bra that provides the support she needs. This doesn’t make sense. 

*Look at me, sounding like some big feminist when that has really never been true of me at all...

 

Tangent, but: The funny thing about all this is that when I'm sitting down nursing a baby I'm pretty much at the height of vulnerability in public. I can't just leap up and chase anyone who wants to steal my purse or assault me or whatever.

To me, pregnancy,  birth,  postpartum,  nursing, all that make me feel sooo vulnerable and more aware of needing someone able- bodied around to depend on (in an almost primal sense, I'm not actively afraid in everyday life). But they are definitely not sexy times, lol. But I also think there's nothing more manly than a guy taking care of a postpartum woman with a newborn, which isn't really a popular view in society either.

Rambling thoughts from the mom of a one-week old.

  • Like 6
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My least favorite thing about this year with my caboose baby has been how many people assume I want privacy to nurse.  I find it so isolating.  I am careful when I nurse though subtle and discreet aren’t words would I use when your books are L’s everyone knows you’re nursing.

Edited by rebcoola
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

Tangent, but: The funny thing about all this is that when I'm sitting down nursing a baby I'm pretty much at the height of vulnerability in public. I can't just leap up and chase anyone who wants to steal my purse or assault me or whatever.

To me, pregnancy,  birth,  postpartum,  nursing, all that make me feel sooo vulnerable and more aware of needing someone able- bodied around to depend on (in an almost primal sense, I'm not actively afraid in everyday life). But they are definitely not sexy times, lol. But I also think there's nothing more manly than a guy taking care of a postpartum woman with a newborn, which isn't really a popular view in society either.

Rambling thoughts from the mom of a one-week old.

Totally agree!

I'm not sure that vulnerability and hypersexuality really go hand in hand - more that vulnerability and tenderness do. At least in my experience with DH in the context of marriage. Likely there's a different dynamic in sexual relationships outside of marriage, in which case that's a whole different conversation🙂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My breastfeeding story:

I was stuck at the county courthouse for the day waiting for a family court hearing. My son was under a year old and still nursing almost exclusively. Neither of my kids would have anything to do with a bottle, even when it was filled with breast milk. So, if I wanted my baby to eat during the day, he had to be with me. 

Hours into the day, we finally got called into the hearing. Predictably, my son started getting fussy. Doing my very best to be as discreet as humanly possible -- which involved a nursing top and a receiving blanket draped over my shoulder -- I maneuvered the baby into position and got him started. The hearing proceeded for another few minutes, until the judge glared at me and demanded to know if I was breastfeeding. I admitted I was, apologized and explained that I was trying to keep the baby from interrupting the hearing. 

The judge just flipped his lid and insisted on calling a recess and sending me out of the courtroom until I finished. 

Needless to say, I was embarrassed and upset, not to mention frustrated knowing that the delay in the proceedings probably meant spending hours more waiting before we got called in again.

Once the whole ordeal was over and we were back home, we looked up the actual state law, which specifies that a mother is allowed to nurse anywhere she is legally allowed to be. Period. 

We made a complaint to the local government and a few months later received an apology along with word that all courthouse personnel had been briefed on the law. 

But, seriously: FAMILY COURT, which is supposed to be about protecting the best interest of children, and I get told I can't feed a crying a baby while I'm there?

  • Like 3
  • Confused 3
  • Sad 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, katilac said:

I'm pretty surprised that more than one person has mentioned boys or men trying to get a glance when someone is breastfeeding. I'm thankful to say that I've never witnessed that level of desperation, lol. I've seen young children, both boys and girls, try to watch the feeding if they're only familiar with bottles, but never anyone with a more, um, prurient interest. I mean, is it happening in areas that only have dial-up internet? 

 

My mother told me off for complaining about her partner oggling me when I didn't complain about a younger friend of my partner's looking.

There's a difference between being oggled by your mum's creepy boyfriend (I left the room for that guy, he's the type to ogle you if you're wearing an abaya) and a young bloke whose observation was discrete enough I didn't even notice. You can feel the difference between someone perving, someone looking because this is new and woah boobs, and someone seeing you because you're there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

My breastfeeding story:

I was stuck at the county courthouse for the day waiting for a family court hearing. My son was under a year old and still nursing almost exclusively. Neither of my kids would have anything to do with a bottle, even when it was filled with breast milk. So, if I wanted my baby to eat during the day, he had to be with me. 

Hours into the day, we finally got called into the hearing. Predictably, my son started getting fussy. Doing my very best to be as discreet as humanly possible -- which involved a nursing top and a receiving blanket draped over my shoulder -- I maneuvered the baby into position and got him started. The hearing proceeded for another few minutes, until the judge glared at me and demanded to know if I was breastfeeding. I admitted I was, apologized and explained that I was trying to keep the baby from interrupting the hearing. 

The judge just flipped his lid and insisted on calling a recess and sending me out of the courtroom until I finished. 

Needless to say, I was embarrassed and upset, not to mention frustrated knowing that the delay in the proceedings probably meant spending hours more waiting before we got called in again.

Once the whole ordeal was over and we were back home, we looked up the actual state law, which specifies that a mother is allowed to nurse anywhere she is legally allowed to be. Period. 

We made a complaint to the local government and a few months later received an apology along with word that all courthouse personnel had been briefed on the law. 

But, seriously: FAMILY COURT, which is supposed to be about protecting the best interest of children, and I get told I can't feed a crying a baby while I'm there?

 

This is the kind of situation that makes it obvious that modesty and privacy are not the main concerns--your modesty was clearly not compromised, I am sure that courtroom saw plenty of less covered female anatomy on a regular basis. 

It was the fact that a baby was feeding at their mother's breast that the judge found unacceptable and worthy of banishment from the courtroom. That is the kind of twisted, perverted perception of breastfeeding that we perpetuate when we insist that it should only be done in private, not in public places or in mixed company.

I am so glad that you filed a complaint.

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I was breastfeeding my boys, I was still teaching part time. Once, I brought them on the school retreat. We had a cabin to ourselves. I had lots of middle schoolers helping all day, which was cute. The one really long walk we used to do was about a mile up to a waterfall on a very smooth trail. I brought the babies in the stroller. At the top, I had to feed them, so I commandeered the bench area where the kids mostly didn't go, told the students I was going to breastfeed the babies and they basically all cleared off. Except for the boys who never listened, who immediately wandered back up. You should have seen their eyes get wide and how quickly they ran the other way. And I wasn't even showing anything, though it was obvious what was happening.

Basically, I also think the idea of young men trying to take a peek is really weird. I've only ever seen the opposite!

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Quill said:

Alright, well let me challenge your thinking on this. I do not think this is mostly or usually a conscious thought men have. But many, many aspects of what is considered typical (American) beauty and sexiness IS divorced from the maternal; I would even say holds to an ideal of youth AND childlessness. Why are high heels sexy? IMO, it is because they disable a woman from running away, they make her vulnerable. Why are special occasion clothes for woman so likely to be small, restrictive and made out of a fabric inadequate for protection against the weather or against an attack? Because she is vulnerable in those clothes. Also, a lot of men who are bothered by a woman bfing, even if she is carefully covered, are NOT AT ALL bothered by a woman wearing a low-cut top where you see cleavage or by women wearing bikinis or by women wearing skimpy exercise attire. My conclusion is: they are bothered by the use of breasts for non-sexy, maternal purposes. 

Let me ask you this: do you only see this discomfort when breasts are visibly being used for feeding babies? Or is it bothersome merely that it is apparent the baby is nursing? Because really, the number of times I have seen a woman nursing with a breast out for the world to see is vanishingly small. Like, I could count them on one hand and, in every instance, it was in female-only company, like one time at a Mommy and Me group or another time at a midwife’s office. In my (American) experience, the large majority of nursing woman like to have their body covered. They like for it to be unlikely someone will see their boob or nipple. If this were not true, there would be no such invention as nursing clothes or nursing capes. 

IMO, men who dislike a woman nursing in public are reacting to the fact that nursing is maternal and it is a non-sexy application of breasts. 

Off soapbox now...

I love and respect you, but the bolded just seems so out there to me. High heels make our legs look longer; skimpy clothes show more skin--men just like how that looks--not because it looks vulnerable, but because it looks sexy, IMO. 

I concede that if a man is bothered by public breastfeeding but NOT bothered by clothing that otherwise bares the breasts, he is being utterly hypocritical and has a problem. Admittedly I hadn't considered that they might be the case for some (a lot?) of men. I feel kind of stupid about that, but I was thinking about the men that I personally know. The men I know who might be made uncomfortable by public breastfeeding do appreciate modesty in women's dress, don't watch porn (and yes, I do know this, in a couple cases), and don't believe it's appropriate to ogle or objectify women.

I think some men are uncomfortable even when a woman is using a nursing cape or blanket because of the possibility that baby might yank it off or because the getting started and finishing up usually involves adjustments to clothing and undergarments.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Quill said:

But, Mercy, is it not true that people can be uncomfortable about things when they truly ARE the one who needs to change? [...]

[...]But if the person who is discomfited is the one in the wrong, then truly, that person needs to adapt. We don’t coddle to the person with wrong ideas. 

 

4 hours ago, maize said:

[...]It might be worth considering that reinforcing a person's mistaken opinions may also be seen as causing them to stumble.

Interesting thoughts to consider here.

Going back to my alcohol example. My church (the Wesleyan church) recently changed their official position on the use of alcohol and because of that I was finally able to join my local church this month. 🙂(No one was preventing me from joining before, but I couldn't in good conscience do so.) I am personally of the opinion that it was harmful and wrong for my denomination to insist that members not drink alcohol. I won't go into all the reasons I believe that to be so; suffice to say that Jesus Himself would not have been allowed to join. 😉

There are still people in my church who are very whole-heartedly against the use of alcohol. I think they're wrong. But based on my understanding of Scripture, my response should not be to knowingly force them to be uncomfortable by drinking in their presence and hoping it will change their mind. In fact, I'm not even to judge them for what I believe to be wrong convictions. Now, if it came up in Bible study or conversation, I would freely share my thoughts with them and hope that they might eventually be led to a different understanding.

Please keep in mind that I am talking about genuinely held convictions about modesty and breastfeeding. I'm not talking about jerky guys who hang bikini calendars on their walls (do people still do that? 😉) but think breastfeeding is gross. I think it would be okay to tell those guys, "Hey, you don't seem to have a problem with breasts in general, so why are you giving me a problem about this?" 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would breastfeed in public if necessary but would almost always have preferred a nice quiet room. It has nothing to do with how others feel, but because my babies usually eat better if there isn't other noise and I enjoy the peaceful baby time. I would have appreciated being told there's a room available and I have appreciated offers in the past. I think I'm pretty discreet even without a cover, but for me, that's not the point. The point is that my babies and I prefer to be alone. I don't think it's offensive to suggest a room as long as the choice to say no is respected. 

I don't agree that women shouldn't nurse in public to avoid making people uncomfortable. There will be no change in people's comfort levels until their exposure to public nursing increases, and a cultural change that encourages women to nurse wherever they want is in everyone's best interests. But it's not my duty to increase people's exposure just to make public change, so I nursed in private if convenient.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, MercyA said:

 

Interesting thoughts to consider here.

Going back to my alcohol example. My church (the Wesleyan church) recently changed their official position on the use of alcohol and because of that I was finally able to join my local church this month. 🙂(No one was preventing me from joining before, but I couldn't in good conscience do so.) I am personally of the opinion that it was harmful and wrong for my denomination to insist that members not drink alcohol. I won't go into all the reasons I believe that to be so; suffice to say that Jesus Himself would not have been allowed to join. 😉

There are still people in my church who are very whole-heartedly against the use of alcohol. I think they're wrong. But based on my understanding of Scripture, my response should not be to knowingly force them to be uncomfortable by drinking in their presence and hoping it will change their mind. In fact, I'm not even to judge them for what I believe to be wrong convictions. Now, if it came up in Bible study or conversation, I would freely share my thoughts with them and hope that they might eventually be led to a different understanding.

Please keep in mind that I am talking about genuinely held convictions about modesty and breastfeeding. I'm not talking about jerky guys who hang bikini calendars on their walls (do people still do that? 😉) but think breastfeeding is gross. I think it would be okay to tell those guys, "Hey, you don't seem to have a problem with breasts in general, so why are you giving me a problem about this?" 

There is a significant difference in that no-one needs to drink alcohol in order to live. Babies do need to eat--many times a day. Breastfeeding is the natural way for babies to eat, in fact for 99+ % of human history was the only way for babies to get the nutrition they need. I see no similarity between choosing, for example, not to serve wine when inviting teetotaller friends to dinner (and I am a teetotaller) and insisting that infants and their caretakers isolate themselves from normal human company every single time they eat.

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

I love and respect you, but the bolded just seems so out there to me. High heels make our legs look longer; skimpy clothes show more skin--men just like how that looks--not because it looks vulnerable, but because it looks sexy, IMO. 

I concede that if a man is bothered by public breastfeeding but NOT bothered by clothing that otherwise bares the breasts, he is being utterly hypocritical and has a problem. Admittedly I hadn't considered that they might be the case for some (a lot?) of men. I feel kind of stupid about that, but I was thinking about the men that I personally know. The men I know who might be made uncomfortable by public breastfeeding do appreciate modesty in women's dress, don't watch porn (and yes, I do know this, in a couple cases), and don't believe it's appropriate to ogle or objectify women.

I think some men are uncomfortable even when a woman is using a nursing cape or blanket because of the possibility that baby might yank it off or because the getting started and finishing up usually involves adjustments to clothing and undergarments.

This last part is really strange to me, though, and I don't understand it.  My nursing covers have a strap that goes around my neck and are very long in the front. They don't come off or show anything. It is, funnily enough,  probably the most modest, loosest fitting thing I ever wear. Same with a blanket if I (v. rarely) don't have my cover with me.  But just the idea of what's going on underneath it is making these men uncomfortable? The idea that I have to adjust my shirts and bra underneath this covering is immodest? Or the idea of the possibility of it slipping off and them seeing the baby's head and my shirts or even a glimpse of breast? I'm sorry, Mercy, but that isn't an issue of my own personal modesty. It is some sort of weird hang up about breastfeeding itself *if* I can be covered totally and they are still uncomfortable that baby is nursing under there. That is what they are picturing in their own minds, their own imaginations. They are not seeing my undergarments or my books at all. If the are uncomfortable about the possibilities or their imaginings of clothing adjustments I'm making, then it's not healthy to cater to that kind of fixation by validating it as legitimate. And certainly, if they are uncomfortable about what goes on under a blanket that they can't see, why would it make a difference if that same act was occurring in the next room? Wouldn't that be just as weird for them? Wouldn't they still know I was adjusting clothing and undergarments where they couldn't see me? I don't know how far this goes, really, but please clarify if I'm not reading you correctly here.

Most of us here, me included, have said we're not going to nurse in someone's home or in some small intimate setting where it's going to be obviously awkward sitting elbow to elbow with Great Uncle Ned and popping a book out over our shirt. If that's the situation, I think you have a lot of sympathy for your position!  I think most of us do our best to try and read the room or situation and act accordingly while still meeting baby's needs to eat. So I'm talking about nursing in public, in an open area, where I might be meeting friends or running errands and baby gets hungry. I honestly cannot be worried about what men are thinking is going on underneath my nursing cover... I'd go bonkers and I'm guessing most men aren't giving it a second thought.

Edited by EmseB
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

When I was breastfeeding my boys, I was still teaching part time. Once, I brought them on the school retreat. We had a cabin to ourselves. I had lots of middle schoolers helping all day, which was cute. The one really long walk we used to do was about a mile up to a waterfall on a very smooth trail. I brought the babies in the stroller. At the top, I had to feed them, so I commandeered the bench area where the kids mostly didn't go, told the students I was going to breastfeed the babies and they basically all cleared off. Except for the boys who never listened, who immediately wandered back up. You should have seen their eyes get wide and how quickly they ran the other way. And I wasn't even showing anything, though it was obvious what was happening.

Basically, I also think the idea of young men trying to take a peek is really weird. I've only ever seen the opposite!

I just came  back to say I asked dh about this and he said the same thing. He was the second of 7 children and between his mom and aunts saw a lot of bf’ing. It was a non issue to him... he certainly was not interested in sneaking a peak and no boy he knew would either. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

I love and respect you, but the bolded just seems so out there to me. High heels make our legs look longer; skimpy clothes show more skin--men just like how that looks--not because it looks vulnerable, but because it looks sexy, IMO. 

Why are longer legs sexy for a woman? Why is more easily seeing the shape or parts of a lady’s body sexy? Because it’s a (primal, base) way of assessing whether she is good for sex. It’s like you’re not asking yourself why men just like how those features look. It’s not because long legs make her a better mother. A large number of what’s considered sexy (according to current US standards) are things that remind men of sex, but NOT of motherhood or producing babies.

We’ll possibly have to agree to disagree on whether or not men subconsciously like women to be vulnerable because IMO, I see that construct all around. Why would a man who cares about a woman want her to teeter around on crippling shoes? 

For that matter, a lot of women like tall men but men wearing high heels has not been a typical fashion here for hundreds of years. And AFAIK, even men in heels never wore tiny pin-point heels as a typical fashion. There’s no (current) fashion for men to wear heels even though very many women like a man who is taller. Nobody is manufacturing high heels for men just because women find tallness attractive. Or consider other parts of men’s bodies that women like. A lot of women find broad, strong shoulders attractive on men. But a well-dressed man is not displaying his strong shoulders; in fact, a well-dressed man is typically displaying his economic status. So general consensus: women look attractive when they look good for having sex with (NOT for having babies with) and men look attractive when they look like a safe bet for economic stability. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...