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mlktwins

So what does this mean for a 9th grader planning...

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....the next 3 years?  My plan was SATs/ACTs, SAT Subject Tests, AP and/or Dual Enrollment.  My boys tend to test well.  But...I'm just getting my feet wet with this high school stuff -- LOL.

https://www.newsweek.com/colleges-are-dropping-act-sat-requirements-look-schools-that-dont-use-test-scores-1465062

For those that are farther along than 9th, how would this impact your decisions/planning for the rest of high school?  What do we need to do to beef a transcript/resume up if schools aren't looking at SAT/ACT scores?  Focus more on AP/DE?  High GPA (which we are doing anyway)?  We are doing an SAT Subject Test in June as a way to validate their grade.  We will still do this test, but do we continue with the 2 more that I was planning on?

Sorry if this is a stupid question!!!  So stressful :blink:! And...I am just starting college research.  Mine don't know where they want to go.  My computer guy is now thinking about possibly becoming a Physical Therapist or something along those lines.  Oh where is the running around in circles like a crazy person emoji when you need one?!?!?  

 

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It would have no impact on what I would plan on as far as testing. But, for each DS, we only planned on/did the PSAT once in 11th grade, and then one each of the SAT and ACT. 

Even if all colleges drop test scores as a general requirement, many colleges will very likely still want an SAT/ACT score from *homeschoolers* as transcript verification.

Also, in response to that article's headline, "record number" of colleges could mean anything. Like, 1-2 dozen, up from previous years of just 3-4. 😉 It's a rather meaningless article, with no hard data, other than a list of 15 schools that have dropped the requirement. From what I've been seeing, that trend of dropping the SAT/ACT score has been a trend for the ivies and top tier colleges -- NOT a trend for the vast majority of state universities and private LACs.

I can't imagine that the thousands of universities in the U.S. will ALL drop the requirement of an SAT/ACT test score in the next 3 years, when your DSs will be applying to college. 😉 And the odds of a student attending a non-top tier or non-selective/competive school that still requires an SAT/ACT score is so much greater, that I would proceed as planned with at least 1 SAT/ACT score for potential admission requirements.

Also, taking the PSAT has to do with shooting for NM scholarship $$ (rather than college admission), so I would still have my student take that test -- and if the student makes it to semi-finalist / finalist status, they are required to take an SAT test in the fall of 12th grade. So even if a test score is not needed for college admission, there's a good chance it will still be needed for scholarship awards.

As far as SAT Subject tests -- unless your students were shooting for admission to one of the less than 2-3 dozen colleges that require 2 SAT Subject scores (or there was some special program that required it), I personally wouldn't bother. But that's just me.

As far as AP and/or DE -- everyone has to weigh the pros and cons of what is available to them in their unique area, look at the quality of the community college and how accepted their courses are, AND look at each student as an individual -- what works best for THIS student. And it may be "do NO AP or DE". Tens-of-thousands of students are admitted to colleges all across the country every year without ANY AP or DE. So not a requirement.

Take each year as it comes. Re-evaluate each year, based on each student's needs/goals, and what opportunities are available to you. Pick what will best help each student thrive NOW in high school (and that might contribute toward success at a potential future college). No point in worrying about vague things that "may or may not happen" years down the line. 😉 

Hope you all continue to enjoy, and thrive in, your homeschool high school journey! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

ETA:

39 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

....And...I am just starting college research.  Mine don't know where they want to go.  My computer guy is now thinking about possibly becoming a Physical Therapist or something along those lines...


Um... gently... You and DSs are 2 months in to homeschooling 9th grade for the first time. Why on earth would your students know where they want to go to college -- or even know what field they are interested in for a possible future career?? The majority of high school students *still* don't those things in 12th grade! And over HALF of all college students *radically* switch majors partway through college. And lots of college students *switch* colleges partway through, as well.

All that to say... gently... I think perhaps you're trying to think too far ahead right now, when perhaps the best thing would be to focus on doing 9th grade well. And to ENJOY the stage of the journey that you are in right now. 😉 

You still have 3 years of high school to go before you would be starting to apply to colleges! Your DSs will change a LOT in that time. And they'll switch interests and get excited about a number of different possible options. That's great! Have fun exploring and encouraging each new interest as it comes, rather than trying to nail down "the best college" for that passing new interest. 😉

Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
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I don’t homeschool around what colleges my kids want to attend. I homeschool around my children's interests and with belief that laying the strong foundation is the most important thing in high school and will allow them to prosper no matter where they end up. So I don’t see how testing decision could change anything really. Now having said that, if the state of California were to make changes to it’s system, we would pay attention more closely since those schools are the only financial safeties to us. 

And home/DE/AP decisions are all individual decisions here based on teacher quality and student interest. 

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It does seem like test-optional talk has been increasing the past few years. It also seems like fewer and fewer schools every year care about SAT subject tests and the SAT essay. I do think there are probably some schools for which kids routinely submit subject test scores even if not required. It isn’t changing anything for me. I agree with Roadrunner that gearing high school toward what a college might want isn’t a great goal. And you know, you could do every AP on the list and then in three years find out that the colleges your child likes aren’t really thinking highly of AP classes anymore (I actually think that IS going to happen eventually at some schools though maybe not in three years). 
 

I wouldn’t even consider dropping the SAT or ACT for a homeschooled student especially. We might or might not “need” to take AP or DE or subject tests to boost our chances for certain schools, but I wouldn’t count on colleges wanting zero testing from a homeschooler for quite some time, and even then I will only believe it when every school of interest says outright on their website that they do not want scores and please do not send them. 
 

My thought about the subject tests is that they are easy to register for and are about as low stress as you can get for standardized testing in high school. They could be a complete waste of time, or they could be a nice boost to the application when it comes time, depending on what other strengths the student has. But most schools really do not want them. 

Edited by Penelope
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I also do not design our homeschool around colleges. When they are ready to think about college, it is far easier to match them to schools that fit their natural profile than try to groom their lives around a profile that some specific school wants.  Some of my kids have accelerated to the pt where taking some courses via DE was a natural progression. Some have thwarted that type of constraint and have insisted on designing courses and doing everything at home. There is no single answer. It really depends on the student.

FWIW, my high school sr was recently accepted to the only school she is interested in attending. She has zero DE, zero APs, zero subject tests. She took German and chemistry online. Everything else at home with me. She took that SAT 1 time this Aug. She was accepted, no problem. (Just like her siblings before her. 🙂 ) 

 

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I would still do the ACT, and at least a few DE classes.  It looks good and validates your mom-grades.  I've got a 9th grader, and she isn't doing anything this year or next.  I'll have her do the ACT either the end of 10th grade, or wait until 11th- depends on how she is doing in math.

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32 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

I would still do the ACT, and at least a few DE classes.  It looks good and validates your mom-grades.  I've got a 9th grader, and she isn't doing anything this year or next.  I'll have her do the ACT either the end of 10th grade, or wait until 11th- depends on how she is doing in math.

Which U's have you encountered that require DE grades to validate homeschool courses? 

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9 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

Which U's have you encountered that require DE grades to validate homeschool courses? 

None have required it, but I think it looks good.  It's also a good way to introduce kids to the structure of a classroom,  teachers and grading, ect.  I've found it an excellent experience!  The perfect step between homeschooling and a 4 year college with huge classes.

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Another reason to at least plan for and take SAT/ACT is scholarships and honors programs. Often even if the school is test optional the tests are required for those two things.

FWIW, my DS is applying to several test optional schools, but so far the only one that is test optional for homeschoolers is Wake Forest. He confirmed this at his interview. That being said, there's a reason Wake has 7 supplements to the Common App.

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26 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

None have required it, but I think it looks good.  It's also a good way to introduce kids to the structure of a classroom,  teachers and grading, ect.  I've found it an excellent experience!  The perfect step between homeschooling and a 4 year college with huge classes.

There is a distinct difference between sharing that your students have found DE a good transition between homeschooling and college and that you think the courses look good on their transcripts vs stating that they validate mom-grades.

Unfortunately, homeschoolers can be their own source of undermining the validity of homeschooling as an acceptable alternative to classroom education that colleges do accept. The constant reiteration of the need to outsource to prove your homeschool's worth tends to originate from the homeschool community and not colleges and Us. It causes many homeschoolers to alter their homeschooling goals and values out of fear vs demonstrated fact. 

Parents should investigate the colleges their students are possibly going to consider and understand their state law and make decisions accordingly. Group think local or online dynamics may or may not reflect actual real-life requirements.

FWIW, I can equally state I have had kids never step inside a classroom prior to freshman yr, be awarded top competitive scholarships (like less than 20 students out of approx 6700 freshman) and walk onto campus and make a 4.0 without issue. Does that make it a universally acceptable premise? No way.  Students are individuals and what is right for one isn't necessarily right for another. One family's preference doesn't match the priorities of another's. That is the beauty of homeschooling.  Your approach would cause undue stress and burden on our family without any foundational basis.

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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When oldest dd (now 25) was applying to colleges I found quite a few that allowed a writing sample instead of standardized tests.  This included both local state universities and private universities.   She didn't apply to any elites, DeSales, James Madison, and mostly state U's.

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Nothing has changed for homeschooled students.  Every "test optional" college I've researched still requires SAT/ACT for homeschoolers.  It's a  little insulting, because grade inflation is a very real thing at the ghetto public school down the road, but there's nothing I can do about it, so I'll just plan for DD to take the SAT/ACT if she chooses a traditional college path.

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Gosh @mlktwins, I just reread my post and it sounds harsh or dismissive -- didn't mean that at ALL! Mostly, I was feeling protective of you, as I knew you are just getting started with homeschooling high school (I remember what a tough decision that was). I didn't want to see you get derailed from your smooth sailing by an article for something that's still quite a ways down the road for you, but esp. because it's an article without a lot of facts in it to back it up or make it a worry for homeschoolers at this time. Hugs, Lori D.

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3 hours ago, shinyhappypeople said:

Nothing has changed for homeschooled students.  Every "test optional" college I've researched still requires SAT/ACT for homeschoolers.  It's a  little insulting, because grade inflation is a very real thing at the ghetto public school down the road, but there's nothing I can do about it, so I'll just plan for DD to take the SAT/ACT if she chooses a traditional college path.

There are some that do not require SAT/ACT for homeschoolers and the number is growing. It is good news for those with kids who do not test well. But since the OP says her kids do, stay the course - it opens many more options across the board. The number of test optional schools is not, as Lori joked above just a couple. There are dozens now. And the number that are test optional for homeschoolers is also not just a couple. But nor is it enough to have a lot of true choices.

I second all the great advice above about not feeling like you must follow this prescribed path and feeling free to break away and do what is right for your kids. If that's testing and DE and then college, then that's what it is. More test optional schools isn't anything you have to worry about, especially not when all but a couple will still consider the scores anyway.

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27 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Gosh @mlktwins, I just reread my post and it sounds harsh or dismissive -- didn't mean that at ALL! Mostly, I was feeling protective of you, as I knew you are just getting started with homeschooling high school (I remember what a tough decision that was). I didn't want to see you get derailed from your smooth sailing by an article for something that's still quite a ways down the road for you, but esp. because it's an article without a lot of facts in it to back it up or make it a worry for homeschoolers at this time. Hugs, Lori D.

Hey Lori D.!!!  No worries at ALL!!!  Everyone on this high school board is so nice and full of great information.  I KNOW you are extremely kind and always have the best of intentions in your responses.  I did not take it as harsh at all :-)!!  

I have been reading and digesting all these great responses while doing chores and running errands.  Gonna rain all day tomorrow and I plan to sit and relax with my computer and respond with some of my thoughts and probably more questions -- LOL.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond!

 

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23 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

Which U's have you encountered that require DE grades to validate homeschool courses? 

I’ve seen one, which promptly got dropped from our list. Radford University in VA, requires a transcript from a college showing an English and math grade for homeschoolers.  It was the only one out of a dozen or more that I looked at.  
https://www.radford.edu/content/admissions/home/application-guidelines/freshmen.html

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11 hours ago, Cnew02 said:

I’ve seen one, which promptly got dropped from our list. Radford University in VA, requires a transcript from a college showing an English and math grade for homeschoolers.  It was the only one out of a dozen or more that I looked at.  
https://www.radford.edu/content/admissions/home/application-guidelines/freshmen.html

Wow, that is a short-sighted U, especially when the threshold is so low. Alg 2 requires a college course to demonstrate that level of ability? It says more about their admissions office than anything else and that they have no experience with subject tests.

That made me curious about their students' profile. Yikes, their applicant pool is far from academic. I seriously doubt that if a homeschooled student with 550+ or 24+ test scores applied that they would be rejected (but it would also be a school that I doubt they would want to attend) Just bc their website states it as a fact does not mean that they follow through with the requirement. (We have had a school drop requirements for one of our kids.)  It makes me wonder what their negative experience is with homeschoolers bc when 1/3 of their pool has English/reading and math scores below 500 (or below 18 on the ACT), they have a large population of students who aren't at college readiness benchmarks (480/530 on the SAT and 18/22 on the ACT). Unbelievably, their CDS shows 28% had an ACT composite between 12-17. (Makes me believe that academic-oriented homeschoolers have not been part of their applicant pool--for good reason.)

https://www.radford.edu/content/dam/departments/administrative/institutional-research/common-data-set/cds-2019/C.pdf

(eta: the chart below lost part of its data. The first column is their 25%, 2nd is 75%, and third is avg.  I have never seen a school with such low score ranges before, so this data really makes me really wonder about their homeschool experience/what happened......)

 

Percent submitting SAT scores

77%

Number submitting SAT scores

1,272

Percent submitting ACT scores

15%

Number submitting ACT scores

254

 

25tPercentile

75th Percentile

Average

SAT Evidence-Based Reading and Writing

480

570

528

SAT Math

460

540

502

ACT Composite

17

23

20

ACT Math

16

23

19

ACT English

16

23

19

ACT Writing

     

ACT Reading

18

25

22

ACT Science

17

23

21

 

SAT Evidence-Based Reading and Writing

SAT Math

700-800

1%

0%

600-699

16%

8%

500-599

50%

48%

400-499

31%

38%

300-399

3%

6%

200-299

0%

0%

Totals should = 100%

100%

100%

 

ACT Composite

ACT English

ACT Math

ACT Science

30-36

3%

5%

1%

4%

24-29

19%

15%

19%

21%

18-23

50%

41%

33%

50%

12-17

28%

34%

47%

23%

6-11

1%

6%

0%

2%

Below 6

0%

0%

0%

0%

Totals should = 100%

100%

100%

100%

100%

 

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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22 hours ago, shinyhappypeople said:

Nothing has changed for homeschooled students.  Every "test optional" college I've researched still requires SAT/ACT for homeschoolers.  It's a  little insulting, because grade inflation is a very real thing at the ghetto public school down the road, but there's nothing I can do about it, so I'll just plan for DD to take the SAT/ACT if she chooses a traditional college path.

  No need for Lori D to be apologetic when others aren'T. Grade inflation is just not a ghetto thing: https://ripplematch.com/journal/article/the-top-15-universities-with-the-highest-average-gpas-4f4b544d/

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We are in the middle of college searching and the application process right now. My DD has high test score, so we get a barrage of mailers and emails daily. With all of the schools who have contacted us, only one very selective school and only one state University have made any mention of being able to apply without test scores. And I agree with others that I wouldn't give up basic tests for homeschoolers, even if optional, unless you have one (like I do,) that doesn't test well. In that case there should be something really good the schools can look at though. Dedication and participation in projects and activities that demonstrate abilities, good essays, etc. 

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3 hours ago, gstharr said:

  No need for Lori D to be apologetic when others aren'T. Grade inflation is just not a ghetto thing: https://ripplematch.com/journal/article/the-top-15-universities-with-the-highest-average-gpas-4f4b544d/

I feel a little confused.  I don't understand the comment about being apologetic.  Did I offend you in some way?  You'll have to spell it out for me, because I'm not always great at reading between the lines.

It's interesting that grade inflation continues into college.  I didn't know that.  I'm most familiar with my kids' assigned high school, which is why I mentioned it.

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3 hours ago, shinyhappypeople said:

I feel a little confused.  I don't understand the comment about being apologetic... You'll have to spell it out for me, because I'm not always great at reading between the lines.


lol... I was confused too.

First that my name was attached to a response to a quote from you.
Second that your post was a statement, not an apology.
And third, the only apologetic aspect in the thread was me to the OP -- and that was about the *tone* of my post, not my *content*.

Perhaps chalk gstharr's post up to a late-night response oopsie...? lol. 😉 

Edited by Lori D.
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On 10/18/2019 at 11:34 PM, 8FillTheHeart said:

Which U's have you encountered that require DE grades to validate homeschool courses? 

University of Georgia requires unaccredited homeschoolers to have their 5 core courses validated by DE, AP or subject tests. Most ridiculous thing but that is their policy. 

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On 10/19/2019 at 9:55 AM, 8FillTheHeart said:

There is a distinct difference between sharing that your students have found DE a good transition between homeschooling and college and that you think the courses look good on their transcripts vs stating that they validate mom-grades.

Unfortunately, homeschoolers can be their own source of undermining the validity of homeschooling as an acceptable alternative to classroom education that colleges do accept. The constant reiteration of the need to outsource to prove your homeschool's worth tends to originate from the homeschool community and not colleges and Us. It causes many homeschoolers to alter their homeschooling goals and values out of fear vs demonstrated fact. 

 


While I agree with this, there are articles around like this that are from colleges and universities. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2018-07-18/how-home-schooling-affects-college-admissions  Google finds quite a few.

And while I’ve not seen a college other than the one linked in this thread that required DE specifically, there are definitely schools that either have some extra requirements or at least suggest ways for homeschooled students to validate their transcript. That might be gradually changing. I hope so. University of Florida is one that has been mentioned here before. Drexel was one I remember seeing. A couple of years ago when I first started to seriously look at colleges, out of curiosity I looked at dozens of admissions websites throughout the country and made a list of the ones that outright stated or implied they wanted more from homeschoolers. I can’t find the list and don’t remember all of the schools now. It wasn’t extensive, but it was a solid number. And some may even have changed policy since then; schools do change policy all the time. Still, it doesn’t hurt for a parent of a ninth or tenth grader to look into schools of interest and see if there is anything like this that they may have to deal with. New York universities have been known for being difficult to deal with as an out of state homeschooler. 

Even a list of books and course descriptions is extra documentation that schools do not do. And the recommendation to explain why one homeschools in a school profile or counselor letter still makes it seem like an alternative choice that one has to justify, instead of just an ordinary educational choice like any private school would be. So it is easy to understand why some homeschooling parents feel insecure about making sure their students are competitive for colleges. 

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2 hours ago, Lilaclady said:

University of Georgia requires unaccredited homeschoolers to have their 5 core courses validated by DE, AP or subject tests. Most ridiculous thing but that is their policy. 

A handful of schools requiring subject test scores has been around for as long as I can remember.  GT used to require 4.  I think URichmond still requires 4 or 5.  Haven't looked in a few yrs.  That is different from requiring DE and DE has not fulfilled the subject test requirements in the past (though I think for UR it started to.) Specifically requiring DE is not something I have ever seen until the link posted in this thread.  Requiring a GED from homeschoolers is another hoop a handful of schools require.    

1 hour ago, Penelope said:


While I agree with this, there are articles around like this that are from colleges and universities. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2018-07-18/how-home-schooling-affects-college-admissions  Google finds quite a few.

And while I’ve not seen a college other than the one linked in this thread that required DE specifically, there are definitely schools that either have some extra requirements or at least suggest ways for homeschooled students to validate their transcript. That might be gradually changing. I hope so. University of Florida is one that has been mentioned here before. Drexel was one I remember seeing. A couple of years ago when I first started to seriously look at colleges, out of curiosity I looked at dozens of admissions websites throughout the country and made a list of the ones that outright stated or implied they wanted more from homeschoolers. I can’t find the list and don’t remember all of the schools now. It wasn’t extensive, but it was a solid number. And some may even have changed policy since then; schools do change policy all the time. Still, it doesn’t hurt for a parent of a ninth or tenth grader to look into schools of interest and see if there is anything like this that they may have to deal with. New York universities have been known for being difficult to deal with as an out of state homeschooler. 

Even a list of books and course descriptions is extra documentation that schools do not do. And the recommendation to explain why one homeschools in a school profile or counselor letter still makes it seem like an alternative choice that one has to justify, instead of just an ordinary educational choice like any private school would be. So it is easy to understand why some homeschooling parents feel insecure about making sure their students are competitive for colleges. 

You selectively quoted my post.  I stated parents should investigate schools and understand what specific schools require.  To state that students need DE to validate their transcripts as a rule is false.  To state that certain schools expect additional requirements to be fulfilled by homeschoolers is true.  For example, it was shared on this forum earlier this yr that UAH has started requiring course descriptions from homeschoolers.  NY is noted for wanting the GED.  Some require subject tests, etc.  UAz (or is it ASU) requires a lab write-up.   As homeschoolers we can either opt to conform to the additional rules or eliminate the schools from our list.  

The point is that there is no automatic necessity to say students should DE in order to be able to attend college bc it validates their transcript any more than saying all students need to take subject tests.  For some schools, yes. In general terms, no.

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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2 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

A handful of schools requiring subject test scores has been around for as long as I can remember.  GT used to require 4.  I think URichmond still requires 4 or 5.  Haven't looked in a few yrs.  That is different from requiring DE and DE has not fulfilled the subject test requirements in the past (though I think for UR it started to.) Specifically requiring DE is not something I have ever seen until the link posted in this thread.  Requiring a GED from homeschoolers is another hoop a handful of schools require.    

You selectively quoted my post.  I stated parents should investigate schools and understand what specific schools require.  To state that students need DE to validate their transcripts as a rule is false.  To state that certain schools expect additional requirements to be fulfilled by homeschoolers is true.  For example, it was shared on this forum earlier this yr that UAH has started requiring course descriptions from homeschoolers.  NY is noted for wanting the GED.  Some require subject tests, etc.  UAz (or is it ASU) requires a lab write-up.   As homeschoolers we can either opt to conform to the additional rules or eliminate the schools from our list.  

The point is that there is no automatic necessity to say students should DE in order to be able to attend college bc it validates their transcript any more than saying all students need to take subject tests.  For some schools, yes. In general terms, no.

I don’t think anyone said all homeschoolers should DE but rather each homeschool parent should be aware of the risks and freedoms that homeschooling in different ways bring. 
I refuse to accredit my student’s transcript but I do that with the knowledge that admission to some schools will be harder and require more work than necessary. That is a risk I am willing to take but it is necessary for me to let other homeschoolers know. Some will choose to do it and others will not. Neither choice is right or wrong they are just different ways that work for different students.

You do seem to write about your current senior who did not need any outside course to get admission but when your son was in high school and wanted to apply to MIT and GT, he took DE and AP. Different things work for different kids and while I support 100% homeschool at home, the data even just on WTM have proven that all the students who have gotten into highly selective schools have taken DE or AP or done some fantastic work like IMO. While highly selective schools are not the be all end all of schools, they are still the goals for some and should be acknowledged. There is no one right way to school or homeschool because all kids are different and need different things. Some need on level course work, other need more advanced work. Most parents are just trying to do the best  that they can. 

Edited by Lilaclady
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25 minutes ago, Lilaclady said:

I don’t think anyone said all homeschoolers should DE but rather each homeschool parent should be aware of the risks and freedoms that homeschooling in different ways bring. 
I refuse to accredit my student’s transcript but I do that with the knowledge that admission to some schools will be harder and require more work than necessary. That is a risk I am willing to take but it is necessary for me to let other homeschoolers know. Some will choose to do it and others will not. Neither choice is right or wrong they are just different ways that work for different students.

You do seem to write about your current senior who did not need any outside course to get admission but when your son was in high school and wanted to apply to MIT and GT, he took DE and AP. Different things work for different kids and while I support 100% homeschool at home, the data even just on WTM have proven that all the students who have gotten into highly selective schools have taken DE or AP or done some fantastic work like IMO. While highly selective schools are not the be all end all of schools, they are still the goals for some and should be acknowledged. There is no one right way to school or homeschool because all kids add different. Most parents are just trying to do the best  that they can. 

My very first post in this thread stated basically what you just wrote.

On 10/18/2019 at 9:13 PM, 8FillTheHeart said:

I also do not design our homeschool around colleges. When they are ready to think about college, it is far easier to match them to schools that fit their natural profile than try to groom their lives around a profile that some specific school wants.  Some of my kids have accelerated to the pt where taking some courses via DE was a natural progression. Some have thwarted that type of constraint and have insisted on designing courses and doing everything at home. There is no single answer. It really depends on the student.

FWIW, my high school sr was recently accepted to the only school she is interested in attending. She has zero DE, zero APs, zero subject tests. She took German and chemistry online. Everything else at home with me. She took that SAT 1 time this Aug. She was accepted, no problem. (Just like her siblings before her. 🙂 ) 

 

I have certainly not stated parents shouldn't have students DE or take APs or whatever suits their students' or their needs. My POV is that meeting the needs and desires of the student and the philosophy of the family within their state laws should be the core discussion. There is no single right answer.  What I do disagree with is the assumption that outsourcing by default is required. And it has become the norm that homeschoolers believe that they have to outsource. So, yep, I will keep pushing back against statements that make assertions that that is the only "safe" path. It is one path, but not the only one.

FWIW, I certainly dont hold my current sr up as any great example of a path to follow bc she didnt get motivated to take the SAT until Aug. Attending a local CC almost became her only option by default bc of the decisions she opted to make. Her decisions, though. I do let my kids make their own choices as to what high school looks like. Hence some DE; some don't. What they do suits who they are as people.

 

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I think part of the problem now is that not doing DE and AP's and so forth feels more like swimming against the tide than ever. So much so that people start to think that everyone saying they think it's a "good idea" and that colleges "like it" and that it "validates homeschool grades" means you really have to do it if your child is hoping to go to any kind of selective college. So people aren't typically saying you "have to" do those things. But the attitudes in the posts and the quantity of them start to make it feel that way for sure.

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22 hours ago, Lilaclady said:

University of Georgia requires unaccredited homeschoolers to have their 5 core courses validated by DE, AP or subject tests. Most ridiculous thing but that is their policy. 

You can use SAT or ACT scores for the math and English parts of that. And if you have classes from somewhere with accreditation (hybrid school, Georgia virtual, etc) you can mix and match quite a bit. We didn't have too much trouble with it for my oldest, even though I hadn't planned ahead very well. I'm more on top of things with my next kid. But it's definitely a pain (and I wonder how often they overlook the requirement if the grades and scores are high enough....but I wouldn't want to test it and find out 🙂 )

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3 minutes ago, kokotg said:

(and I wonder how often they overlook the requirement if the grades and scores are high enough....but I wouldn't want to test it and find out 🙂 )

That is a risk. I do wonder myself (not about UGA, just in general.) My dd inadvertently applied to a school that requires the GED from homeschoolers. I contacted them to withdraw her application bc she wouldn't be taking the GED. They responded by saying they were waiving the requirement and ultimately she was invited to their competitive scholarship weekend.  (She eliminated the school that weekend bc she decided she didnt like the atmosphere at all. Glad no hoop jumping took place to get there.) URochester also accepted her with no outside grades except Ms.Denne for Russian. 

I wouldn't want them to apply to their top choice that way, but I do suspect that if their profile puts them in the upper quartile that posted rules aren't written in stone but are "flexible." For "might be interested" schools, it might be worth applying to see.

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In TN, the state scholarship is based on ACT scores/GPA, and the General Assembly Merit Scholarship requires (for homeschoolers) DE, AP, Governor's school participation, or CLEP, so that is a reason here to take a few DE or AP classes if your child is likely to score over a 29 on the ACT.  Most state U's that give merit aid stack on top of the state scholarships. 

 

https://www.tn.gov/content/tn/collegepays/money-for-college/tn-education-lottery-programs/tennessee-hope-scholarship/home-school.html

 

FWIW, DD's current reach school (reach for financial reasons) is test optional, but the person who she met with suggested submitting them anyway, because they would only strengthen her application. 

Edited by dmmetler
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7 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

In TN, the state scholarship is based on ACT scores/GPA, and the General Assembly Merit Scholarship requires (for homeschoolers) DE, AP, Governor's school participation, or CLEP, so that is a reason here to take a few DE or AP classes if your child is likely to score over a 29 on the ACT. 

 

https://www.tn.gov/content/tn/collegepays/money-for-college/tn-education-lottery-programs/tennessee-hope-scholarship/home-school.html

 

I have always thought their requirements odd. 4 DE classes or 2 APs or 1 CLEP?? Not sure how they arrived at those. My dd managed the 1 CLEP in 9th grade.

I personally find testing requirements less intrusive bc I can teach the course however I want. 

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18 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I have always thought their requirements odd. 4 DE classes or 2 APs or 1 CLEP?? Not sure how they arrived at those. My dd managed the 1 CLEP in 9th grade.

I personally find testing requirements less intrusive bc I can teach the course however I want. 

I went with DE since DD wanted a classroom setting, so she met the requirements before I even thought to look. It does seem weird to equate one CLEP with four college classes or Governor's school, which is just plain hard to get into.  

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43 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

In TN, the state scholarship is based on ACT scores/GPA, and the General Assembly Merit Scholarship requires (for homeschoolers) DE, AP, Governor's school participation, or CLEP, so that is a reason here to take a few DE or AP classes if your child is likely to score over a 29 on the ACT.  Most state U's that give merit aid stack on top of the state scholarships. 

 

https://www.tn.gov/content/tn/collegepays/money-for-college/tn-education-lottery-programs/tennessee-hope-scholarship/home-school.html

 

FWIW, DD's current reach school (reach for financial reasons) is test optional, but the person who she met with suggested submitting them anyway, because they would only strengthen her application. 

Oh I forgot all about this requirement. My dc have the de so I Iikely never gave it another thought but such a strange requirement and it would be so annoying if de wasn't part of our plan. The one CLEP would definitely be the least intrusive. But still, such a strange measure of aptitude or achievement. 

My first two went out of state so my junior might be the first to actually use the HOPE beyond what we tapped into for de.

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2 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

That is a risk. I do wonder myself (not about UGA, just in general.) My dd inadvertently applied to a school that requires the GED from homeschoolers. I contacted them to withdraw her application bc she wouldn't be taking the GED. They responded by saying they were waiving the requirement and ultimately she was invited to their competitive scholarship weekend.  (She eliminated the school that weekend bc she decided she didnt like the atmosphere at all. Glad no hoop jumping took place to get there.) URochester also accepted her with no outside grades except Ms.Denne for Russian. 

I wouldn't want them to apply to their top choice that way, but I do suspect that if their profile puts them in the upper quartile that posted rules aren't written in stone but are "flexible." For "might be interested" schools, it might be worth applying to see.

I will like to think that they will be flexible but the admissions rep I spoke to was a bit condescending towards homeschoolers- she was not pleased I had attended a counselor meeting as a homeschooler. 
My student doesn’t have a  verification in one of the 5 core class and she was saying they will not budge. Granted, I did not tell her grades and standardized tests but the attitude I got from her wasn’t good at all. 

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13 minutes ago, Lilaclady said:

I will like to think that they will be flexible but the admissions rep I spoke to was a bit condescending towards homeschoolers- she was not pleased I had attended a counselor meeting as a homeschooler. 
My student doesn’t have a  verification in one of the 5 core class and she was saying they will not budge. Granted, I did not tell her grades and standardized tests but the attitude I got from her wasn’t good at all. 

Typically Us have an admissions counselor dedicated to nontraditional applicants. I hope that she is not that person! Sometimes the orher ad coms are completely unfamiliar with the process (I have been given inaccurate information by the non-homeschool ad com before.) 

We have also encountered incredible bias against homeschooling and still received admission (that was the case with the ad com who interviewed one of my kids and his anti-homeschool comments were pretty brash.)

It can't hurt to apply and see. The worst the answer can be is no which is the same as not applying. 

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1 hour ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

Typically Us have an admissions counselor dedicated to nontraditional applicants. I hope that she is not that person! Sometimes the orher ad coms are completely unfamiliar with the process (I have been given inaccurate information by the non-homeschool ad com before.) 

We have also encountered incredible bias against homeschooling and still received admission (that was the case with the ad com who interviewed one of my kids and his anti-homeschool comments were pretty brash.)

It can't hurt to apply and see. The worst the answer can be is no which is the same as not applying. 

Ye that is our experience so far. The U of Alabama rep for our area had no clue about homeschooling and was telling me things I knew were not true. The actual application was easy and she was awarded merit scholarships. 

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On 10/21/2019 at 8:57 AM, Farrar said:

I think part of the problem now is that not doing DE and AP's and so forth feels more like swimming against the tide than ever. So much so that people start to think that everyone saying they think it's a "good idea" and that colleges "like it" and that it "validates homeschool grades" means you really have to do it if your child is hoping to go to any kind of selective college. So people aren't typically saying you "have to" do those things. But the attitudes in the posts and the quantity of them start to make it feel that way for sure.

To me, doing high school without outsourcing in any way (co-op, online, or tutors) would feel like swimming upstream. But it is my perception that more homeschoolers do DE and AP for credit reasons, to save on away college and graduate early, or be able to double major. Or because it is available and feels like the appropriate next step for the student.  Not so much because of what colleges think.

On this forum, it feels like a mix. It often feels like people say that these things aren’t necessary, but then their students actually do some of them, and/or have very high test scores and/or awards. I don’t think we can say that a sprinkling of De or AP won’t in fact help the transcript of the more typical average to above average applicant with solid but not tip top scores at the moderately selective school. Anecdotes are encouraging, but then we and our children have to live with the decisions we make based on them.

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1 hour ago, Penelope said:

To me, doing high school without outsourcing in any way (co-op, online, or tutors) would feel like swimming upstream. But it is my perception that more homeschoolers do DE and AP for credit reasons, to save on away college and graduate early, or be able to double major. Or because it is available and feels like the appropriate next step for the student.  Not so much because of what colleges think.

On this forum, it feels like a mix. It often feels like people say that these things aren’t necessary, but then their students actually do some of them, and/or have very high test scores and/or awards. I don’t think we can say that a sprinkling of De or AP won’t in fact help the transcript of the more typical average to above average applicant with solid but not tip top scores at the moderately selective school. Anecdotes are encouraging, but then we and our children have to live with the decisions we make based on them.

In order to have meaningful conversation, you would need to define

  • more typical avg to above avg applicant
  • solid but not tip top scores, and
  • moderately selective school.

Then you would need to factor in what state.  Different states function differently.  

DE and AP credits don't always transfer in as credit toward a student's major. (Are there matriculation agreements?) Whether or not they help save $$ (does the state pay for DE or do the parents have to pay?) also depends.  

The conversations on the WTM have in the past been dominated by applicants to highly selective colleges (HYPMS).  Those conversations have led to discussions about what it takes to be accepted to colleges and those sorts of standards have sort of morphed their way into acceptances in general which is just not an accurate reflection of what actually happens.  What it takes to get accepted into selective colleges is a completely different set of criteria than your avg state U (is your avg state U a moderately selective school??).  Most avg Us do not care about ECs, leadership, volunteer hrs, etc.  All they care about is a transcript and test scores.  And most accept a homeschool transcript at face value.  

The fact is that the conversation can not take place in a way that says definitively yes or no one way or the other without context.  So to say that APs and DE help avg to above avg students gain admission at moderately selective schools may or may not be true.  An avg to slightly above avg student faces rejection at a whole host of schools even with DE or AP scores.  What school?  What scores?  Holistic admissions? What course work?  (For example, DEing in pre-cal when applying to a limited admission engineering program is not going to add much weight.)  

(FWIW, I can say that I absolutely do not believe that co-ops or unaccredited online courses mean much of anything in terms of admission  Doesn't mean that parents shouldn't use them.  Hey,  I am thrilled my dd took Connie's chem class.  I just don't believe that any admission office cares that she did.)

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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1 hour ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

In order to have meaningful conversation, you would need to define

  • more typical avg to above avg applicant
  • solid but not tip top scores, and
  • moderately selective school.

Then you would need to factor in what state.  Different states function differently.  

DE and AP credits don't always transfer in as credit toward a student's major. (Are there matriculation agreements?) Whether or not they help save $$ (does the state pay for DE or do the parents have to pay?) also depends.  

The conversations on the WTM have in the past been dominated by applicants to highly selective colleges (HYPMS).  Those conversations have led to discussions about what it takes to be accepted to colleges and those sorts of standards have sort of morphed their way into acceptances in general which is just not an accurate reflection of what actually happens.  What it takes to get accepted into selective colleges is a completely different set of criteria than your avg state U (is your avg state U a moderately selective school??).  Most avg Us do not care about ECs, leadership, volunteer hrs, etc.  All they care about is a transcript and test scores.  And most accept a homeschool transcript at face value.  

The fact is that the conversation can not take place in a way that says definitively yes or no one way or the other without context.  So to say that APs and DE help avg to above avg students gain admission at moderately selective schools may or may not be true.  An avg to slightly above avg student faces rejection at a whole host of schools even with DE or AP scores.  What school?  What scores?  Holistic admissions? What course work?  (For example, DEing in pre-cal when applying to a limited admission engineering program is not going to add much weight.)  

(FWIW, I can say that I absolutely do not believe that co-ops or unaccredited online courses mean much of anything in terms of admission  Doesn't mean that parents shouldn't use them.  Hey,  I am thrilled my dd took Connie's chem class.  I just don't believe that any admission office cares that she did.)

I agree with all of this and think I understand where you are coming from. And I appreciate you saying it. I guess I don’t understand what the back and forth in this thread, and some others I have read but haven’t participated in, is about then.

I have never read a post here, including in this discussion, that says that -every- homeschooler must do DE, or any particular test other than SAT/ACT, to gain college acceptance. 

The answer always is, “it depends.” And there are things we just can’t know, like whether or not good grades in college classes helped a student who was on the border because she is not the best test taker. Or, does a particular school give only a passing glance to the homeschool transcript and base admission entirely on the ACT score.

I completely agree with the bolded. My kids have taken some fabulous online courses that surpassed what they would have gotten in many schools, and a small minority that didn’t impress. But I highly doubt they make a transcript stronger.  I have never signed up for one for that reason, but rather because we decided it was the best way to meet a need at the time. But again, is it true that no school looks upon them positively? Who knows, some may see online courses as a negative. Oh, to be a fly on the wall during some of those application reviews. 

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47 minutes ago, Penelope said:

 I guess I don’t understand what the back and forth in this thread, and some others I have read but haven’t participated in, is about then.

I have never read a post here, including in this discussion, that says that -every- homeschooler must do DE, or any particular test other than SAT/ACT, to gain college acceptance. 

In terms of my response in this thread, it was bc the OP posted a question that asked what to do and did so in a way that demonstrated lack of understanding about admissions in general and being stressed.....

 

On 10/18/2019 at 2:37 PM, mlktwins said:

....the next 3 years?  My plan was SATs/ACTs, SAT Subject Tests, AP and/or Dual Enrollment.  My boys tend to test well.  But...I'm just getting my feet wet with this high school stuff -- LOL.

https://www.newsweek.com/colleges-are-dropping-act-sat-requirements-look-schools-that-dont-use-test-scores-1465062

For those that are farther along than 9th, how would this impact your decisions/planning for the rest of high school?  What do we need to do to beef a transcript/resume up if schools aren't looking at SAT/ACT scores?  Focus more on AP/DE?  High GPA (which we are doing anyway)?  We are doing an SAT Subject Test in June as a way to validate their grade.  We will still do this test, but do we continue with the 2 more that I was planning on?

Sorry if this is a stupid question!!!  So stressful :blink:! And...I am just starting college research.  Mine don't know where they want to go.  My computer guy is now thinking about possibly becoming a Physical Therapist or something along those lines.  Oh where is the running around in circles like a crazy person emoji when you need one?!?!?  

 

And one of the responses stated

On 10/18/2019 at 10:01 PM, BusyMom5 said:

I would still do the ACT, and at least a few DE classes.  It looks good and validates your mom-grades.  

That is what I was responding to. Whether or not DE "looks good" is highly subjective. (No, I don't think DE pre-cal looks impressive to any admissions office.)  Nor do I believe that DE validates mom grades. The benefit of DE is that the courses reflect level of student ability. If a student is functioning at an advanced level, they demonstrate the student's advanced level.

In terms of the question you posed about admission, DE, and test scores, 

47 minutes ago, Penelope said:

And there are things we just can’t know, like whether or not good grades in college classes helped a student who was on the border because she is not the best test taker. Or, does a particular school give only a passing glance to the homeschool transcript and base admission entirely on the ACT score.

Homeschool students without DE and without APs are admitted to college all the time. I have never had a student with test scores not solidly in the mid to upper quartile of the schools they were applying to. With the exception of MIT, my kids have been accepted to every school they have ever applied to......but I match my kids to appropriate schools vs attempting to morph them to a school.  So, perhaps a low-scoring, high GPA DE student  might benefit if they were applying to a high target school with homeschooling hoop jumping required. But at a match school, it is probably moot if they don't require subject test scores, etc and they are homeschool friendly.  It really boils down to how all of these terms are being defined. (Is a poor tester scoring 980 or 1200? Are the DE courses alg 2 and intro to sociology or calculus and chemistry for science majors?)

But, my main thought in responding to the OP's thread was to reassure that there is no need to panic. Nor is there any need to associate homeschooling with lack of college acceptances. 

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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Not sure why I'm coming back here, but apparently you are highly offended by my opinion that DE classes can validate mom-given grades.  You feel that this comment is somehow the same as me saying that every single college bound homeschooler MUST take them to get in.  No.  I never said that.  I responded to the OP.  She was looking into SAT/ACT  tests, AP subject,  AP and DE.  My recommendation was at least one test and a few DE classes would look good and validate grades.  She listed options she is considering,  I responded with the few I would focus on.  

 

As for my opinion- I DO  think that outside classes help college admission officers classify kids quickly.  Having outside grades helps to validate a moms grades, especially in states with no regulations (like mine).  Most high schools now offer AP and/or DE courses, and lots of applicants have a few of those classes on their transcript.  I have read and listened to your POV, but it has not changed my mind or my advice.

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I find this conversation very interesting.  Thanks all for taking the time to kick it around.

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10 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

Not sure why I'm coming back here, but apparently you are highly offended by my opinion that DE classes can validate mom-given grades.  You feel that this comment is somehow the same as me saying that every single college bound homeschooler MUST take them to get in.  No.  I never said that.  I responded to the OP.  She was looking into SAT/ACT  tests, AP subject,  AP and DE.  My recommendation was at least one test and a few DE classes would look good and validate grades.  She listed options she is considering,  I responded with the few I would focus on.  

 

As for my opinion- I DO  think that outside classes help college admission officers classify kids quickly.  Having outside grades helps to validate a moms grades, especially in states with no regulations (like mine).  Most high schools now offer AP and/or DE courses, and lots of applicants have a few of those classes on their transcript.  I have read and listened to your POV, but it has not changed my mind or my advice.

I'm not offended by your posts at all. If offense is the tone coming through, I have failed completely at conveying tone. 

The OP's tone is one of being overwhelmed and confused. Based on her description, she already fully embraces your perspective and is planning on having every form of "validation" available:

My plan was SATs/ACTs, SAT Subject Tests, AP and/or Dual Enrollment.

She is asking what more she should plan on doing. 

My posts are meant to be part of a conversation offering an alternative perspective to assure her she doesn't need to do anything more. She doesn't even need to everything she is planning; even for the most competitive schools you don't need subject tests/APs and DE. (they will need something far more compelling than just a transcript and test scores, though, for those schools.) And if her kids aren't considering competitive schools, maybe she isn't aware at all that she may not need any of those other than just simple ACT/SAT test scores. Most homeschoolers I encounter today do not know that. They don't think their homeschool "mommy" transcript would even be considered without lots of outside proof.

 

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OP here!  Thanks so much to everyone for their insight and thoughtful responses.  I have read through them several times and even printed them out yesterday morning so I could make notes or write down questions -- LOL.  I do have some comments and/or questions on specific posts that I will come back and address.

I know my situation is specific to my kids, but maybe my posting this and all the responses will help someone else :-).

 

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I think what I was trying to say is first make a decision based on a kid. So if a child thrives in a classroom setting, maybe DE is a good choice. If they would rather have less restricted environment but want a lot of challenge, maybe online AP courses are the best. If they have a deep passion for a certain area and would like more time to devote to it, maybe home brewed courses should make up the bulk of learning. And those combinations are endless. 

But absolutely look at the requirements of your safety schools. There are some hoops we are jumping because our state schools (which we are hoping our kids might attend one day) are not the friendliest.

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On 10/18/2019 at 4:02 PM, Lori D. said:

As far as SAT Subject tests -- unless your students were shooting for admission to one of the less than 2-3 dozen colleges that require 2 SAT Subject scores (or there was some special program that required it), I personally wouldn't bother. But that's just me.

 

With regards to the SAT Subject tests, they are currently in a local Honors Biology class with lab.  Their teacher is phenomenal and they are doing so well in this class.  They could have done the On-Level, which would have been A LOT less work.  But...they've said that wouldn't have been challenging enough for them and they prefer the Honors level of challenge.

Part of this class, for her Honors students, is prep for the SAT Subject test (for those kids that want to take it).  There are 8 out of 9 kids that are doing Honors instead of On-Level.  They will need to do some studying on their own, of course, but she is setting them up very nicely to succeed on the SAT Subject test.  She will also be setting up on-line study groups for test prep for those kids in the class who want to participate.  My boys test very well on standardized tests that don't require writing essays (we haven't had to do those yet, but this will be their weakness on standardized testing) so I feel like it isn't a lot of extra effort for a hopefully good score to validate the A (hopefully - so far, so good:ph34r:) they will be getting in their first Honors class in 9th grade.  So far, they do not get nervous or stressed out at taking standardized tests, including the PSAT 8/9 they just took.  They may when they know it counts more, but they are fine trying the SAT Biology Subject test in June.

I am a rookie to all of this so I guess we will see :-).

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On 10/18/2019 at 4:02 PM, Lori D. said:

Um... gently... You and DSs are 2 months in to homeschooling 9th grade for the first time. Why on earth would your students know where they want to go to college -- or even know what field they are interested in for a possible future career?? 

Just from reading posts on this high school board and what I hear local people talking about (homeschoolers and public schoolers), I feel very behind the 8 ball on this part.  My friends just took their 9th grade public school kids (my boys' friends) to the huge college fair that was held at one of the local high schools in September.  I'm thinking to myself they are in 9th grade!!!  My local homeschool friends also talk about what colleges their kids are interested in going too and what different schools require at a young age.

We live in a very academically competitive area (Northern VA) and it seems the kids are pushed earlier and earlier into deciding on college and career paths in their first years of high school.  I think it is sad for those kids that aren't sure what the heck they want to do.  I didn't know what I wanted to do until my senior year of high school.  I also wasn't planning to go to college until my senior year.  Things were very different back then though.

I just want to be sure that we don't get to 11th and 12th grade and not have done something big we should have in 9th or 10th grade.  And "I" don't want to be the reason for something to have gone wrong :-).  My problem that I am working on!  

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On 10/18/2019 at 4:59 PM, Penelope said:

My thought about the subject tests is that they are easy to register for and are about as low stress as you can get for standardized testing in high school. They could be a complete waste of time, or they could be a nice boost to the application when it comes time, depending on what other strengths the student has. But most schools really do not want them. 

This is my feeling on the subject tests :-).  I also believe, from what I have heard as I have not started my own research yet, is that some schools in VA (in-state for us) require 2 or 3.  I may be wrong, but I'm still going forward with the one my boys are taking in June.  I don't feel it could hurt them.

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On 10/19/2019 at 9:55 AM, 8FillTheHeart said:

Unfortunately, homeschoolers can be their own source of undermining the validity of homeschooling as an acceptable alternative to classroom education that colleges do accept. The constant reiteration of the need to outsource to prove your homeschool's worth tends to originate from the homeschool community and not colleges and Us. It causes many homeschoolers to alter their homeschooling goals and values out of fear vs demonstrated fact. 

Parents should investigate the colleges their students are possibly going to consider and understand their state law and make decisions accordingly. Group think local or online dynamics may or may not reflect actual real-life requirements.

YES!!!!  This is what I don't want to do, but it is so hard!  And...I do want to investigate colleges, which I already feel behind the 8 ball on.  For some reason, I feel like I should already have this done!  To be honest, I wish my boys were enthusiastic about the topic and took initiative to do some of the research themselves -- LOL.  Alas, I don't see that happening.  College research is on my short list of things to work on during the winter.

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On 10/20/2019 at 3:43 AM, 8FillTheHeart said:

Wow, that is a short-sighted U, especially when the threshold is so low. Alg 2 requires a college course to demonstrate that level of ability? It says more about their admissions office than anything else and that they have no experience with subject tests.

That made me curious about their students' profile. Yikes, their applicant pool is far from academic. I seriously doubt that if a homeschooled student with 550+ or 24+ test scores applied that they would be rejected (but it would also be a school that I doubt they would want to attend) Just bc their website states it as a fact does not mean that they follow through with the requirement. (We have had a school drop requirements for one of our kids.)  It makes me wonder what their negative experience is with homeschoolers bc when 1/3 of their pool has English/reading and math scores below 500 (or below 18 on the ACT), they have a large population of students who aren't at college readiness benchmarks (480/530 on the SAT and 18/22 on the ACT). Unbelievably, their CDS shows 28% had an ACT composite between 12-17. (Makes me believe that academic-oriented homeschoolers have not been part of their applicant pool--for good reason.)

https://www.radford.edu/content/dam/departments/administrative/institutional-research/common-data-set/cds-2019/C.pdf

 

Radford is known for being a big party school in VA.  My boys won't be applying there based on that alone :-).

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