When chastity is important to you but you know you aren't the one in control

[maize]

This is kind of a spin-off of Quill's thread.

We teach that sex is best reserved for marriage, it's a pretty big emphasis within our religion. Dh and I both waited, as did many of our family members and friends.

While I teach chastity, I don't want my kids to be saddled with guilt and shame should they act outside of those standards. I've told my older kids that sexuality is a normal human characteristic, is super important actually since it is how we survive as a species, that having sexual thoughts and feelings is normal and not wrong. I've told them that while I teach the standards of behavior that I believe are best I'm not going to think they are terrible people if at some point they become sexually active. I've told them that if any kind of sexual assault were to happen to them they would in no way be responsible or in the wrong. From a religious perspective, we talk about how life is about making mistakes and learning and that's why we have repentance.

I still worry though because several of my kids are prone to anxiety and perfectionism and a tendency towards feeling shame seems to go strongly with those traits.

[Farrar]

I'm coming at this from a very different perspective, but I feel like generally that teaching kids that these are our values, we want you to respect and practice these values in various ways while you're here in our home as children/teens, but we also understand that as you become an adult you may develop your own values and that's totally okay with us. Once you're an adult, we'll respect that you have different values and not think less of you... that's a set of parental attitudes that I think is healthy and good and can cover a lot of things. Unconditional love covers so much.

With sexual assault, I think you have to teach what it is, first of all, when they're at an appropriate age. And then to keep the focus on the evil of the perpetrator. Never question what the victim wore or if they were irresponsible to be somewhere or whatever. Don't say, "it's not their fault BUT they shouldn't have done this and that." That doesn't mean not teaching behaviors that keep your kids safe. But don't fall into the trap of questioning or blaming victims. Believe victims. Demonstrate what that looks like if it comes up. If people around you don't, then make it clear why you don't think that way. I think that's the best you can do to create an atmosphere where it's clear that assault is not the victim's fault and doesn't mean the victim has violated their own moral code if chastity was part of that code.

[Catwoman]

It sounds like you have been very sensible in your approach, maize. I don’t see how you could have handled it any differently, while still trying to emphasize your religious beliefs. I wouldn’t advise you to change a thing!

[ktgrok]

I think it is really important to emphasize that the "rules" are not things that determine your character - nt things to judge someone on for messing up. That they are safety rules, guidance for leading a happy, fulfilled life. So just like I don't say "don't cross the street without looking both ways" to be judgmental, I don't say sex is best reserved for marriage to be judgmental. That given the ramifications of sex, namely babies but also disease, and then also the hormonal and emotional factors, the safest way to assure it is a wonderful thing is to wait and have it in the confines of a stable, defined, monogamous, hopefully forever relationship. As someone who got pregnant out of wedlock, I'm very able to say that planning a baby and a wedding at the same time is VERY stressful, and that it is much nicer to do so when already married. And that it is harder to leave someone who turns out not to be treating you well, or a good person, if you are already having sex with them for a variety of complicated reasons, both conscious and unconscious. ESPECIALLY if you tend towards wanting to limit your sexual encounters - it can make you want to stay so you can say you didn't have more sexual partners. But even beyond that it can make the relationship seem more serious more quickly, can cause hormonal surges that attach you to the person when you otherwise might not have, etc. 

And again, we go back to babies. That babies happen, a LOT, when you have sex. That we are a very fertile family. That if you are not ready to be having babies with someone you probably shouldn't be having sex with them. And if you ARE ready to have babies with them, well, it's probably time to get married, right?

So it's about practicality, safety, etc not about dirty/clean/purity/etc. That countries, families, and God all have rules, and the point is to keep us safe and happy and productive. Wether that be following traffic rules or chastity. 

(these are my own personal opinions and I have no judgement of other families with other values)

[ktgrok]

Oh, and please tell your girls that it isn't just about avoiding boys pressuring them. That THEY are going to be aroused and want to have sex! I always heard that it was about keeping boys from pressuring you - I was totally unprepared to deal with my OWN lust!

[Chris in VA]

9 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Oh, and please tell your girls that it isn't just about avoiding boys pressuring them. That THEY are going to be aroused and want to have sex! I always heard that it was about keeping boys from pressuring you - I was totally unprepared to deal with my OWN lust!

A-fricken-men Sista.

[Chris in VA]

I hear you, Maize. I am currently pretty heartbroken over some choices being made, but dc knows how much love comes from us. You are doing a good thing, imo, to highly value what God values (again, my perspective). 

[Ottakee]

15 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Oh, and please tell your girls that it isn't just about avoiding boys pressuring them. That THEY are going to be aroused and want to have sex! I always heard that it was about keeping boys from pressuring you - I was totally unprepared to deal with my OWN lust!

THIS is an important one.  Something never covered in my family of origin.

[Chris in VA]

I also think video chatting/temptations of sexting and p*orn should be topics of conversation

[maize]

1 hour ago, Chris in VA said:

I also think video chatting/temptations of sexting and p*orn should be topics of conversation

 

Porn really, really bothers me; it seems like profound objectification of other humans, I worry about a generation that is growing up and training their brains to respond to the thrill of online porn. I do talk with my kids about it but how many of those they will interact with, potentially date or marry have been saturated in it?

Edited October 12, 2019 by maize

[Terabith]

I talk to my kids pretty often about porn and sexting.  And how fertile we are, and the reasons we believe in waiting, but also about sexual assault and desire.  But I also tell them regularly, despite the fact that one kid identifies as gay and the other as asexual, that sometimes kids get pregnant and are panicked, and that if that happens, it's not a disaster and we'll figure it out together.  

[DesertBlossom]

I have listened to a bunch of Jennifer Finlayson-Fife's podcasts on sexuality. She is an LDS sex therapist, focusing on women. I have learned a lot about myself and how things I was taught as a young adult affected my thinking. I mean, ai feel like I have a pretty good sense of my sexuality as an adult, but listening to her as been very eye-opening. I really, really like her and her approach. As I've got 2 teens (and 5 more on the way) I want to take her online course on teaching children about sex. I just feel like she has a very healthy approach. http://www.finlayson-fife.com/

[SquirrellyMama]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Oh, and please tell your girls that it isn't just about avoiding boys pressuring them. That THEY are going to be aroused and want to have sex! I always heard that it was about keeping boys from pressuring you - I was totally unprepared to deal with my OWN lust!

I used to get so upset with our former youth group at church. They really did emphasize it as "boys want sex all the time". I remember thinking there was something wrong with me as a teen because of my own sexual desire and didn't want my girls to feel that way too. 

Kelly

[ktgrok]

3 minutes ago, SquirrellyMama said:

I used to get so upset with our former youth group at church. They really did emphasize it as "boys want sex all the time". I remember thinking there was something wrong with me as a teen because of my own sexual desire and didn't want my girls to feel that way too. 

Kelly

Yup. 

And really, i didn't feel badly about myself - I didn't come from a religious household or anything. But I was just unprepared. As in, I had things to say or do, I had responses, for a boy who wanted something I wasn't ready for. 

But NO ONE had ever talked about what to do when you DO want them to do it! 

I don't think anyone ever talked to the boys about that either - I think the boys were counting on the girls to put the breaks on, and when/if the girl didn't the boys were kind of at a loss, and ending up going further than they were comfortable with as they hadn't been taught how to put the breaks on themselves. It was like the rule was you could try, and she'd tell you when to stop. Well - what if she doesn't want to stop?? 

[May]

4 hours ago, Chris in VA said:

I hear you, Maize. I am currently pretty heartbroken over some choices being made, but dc knows how much love comes from us. You are doing a good thing, imo, to highly value what God values (again, my perspective). 

I’m right there with you Chris🌺my heart is sad over a choice our oldest daughter has made. 

[DesertBlossom]

4 hours ago, maize said:

While I teach chastity, I don't want my kids to be saddled with guilt and shame should they act outside of those standards.

I think this is tricky. I don't think feelings of guilt are necessarily bad. We feel guilty when we make choices outside of our value system. If I steal something, I am going to feel bad. And that guilt will hopefully prompt me to right my wrong and make amends. If someone feels guilty about making a choice outside their value system, they might be able to push past it and/or decide that value is no longer important to them, etc. But feeling bad about a choice we made can be a good thing. On the flip side, we don't want our children to be made to feel like they are bad people or that somehow they are damaged because of the choices they made. The beauty and gift of repentance means that we don't have to define ourselves by our past mistakes. 

When it comes to teaching chastity, I think we go wrong when the message we send is "having sexual feelings is bad" when what we actually want to teach is that there is a right place and a right time to act upon those sexual desires.  We are sexual beings. God made us that way. It's how we act on those desires that can be for our good or bad.  The line dividing appropriate and inappropriate behavior may be different for everyone. And kids who are taught chastity a certain way may grow up and decide they don't believe it or don't want to live by those rules anymore. As parents we love them anyway. Their value and their worth is not diminished in any way.  In one of the podcasts I listened to Finlayson-Fife says that the law of chastity is protective, not restrictive.  It's empowering to be able to say, "this is my body and I will choose when and with whom I share this sexual side of myself."

It's hard. I think we sometimes send unintentional messages to our children. Or maybe they sometimes interpret them wrong. I don't know. But I think we need to be able to have ongoing conversations with our children about this. 

[DesertBlossom]

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Yup. 

And really, i didn't feel badly about myself - I didn't come from a religious household or anything. But I was just unprepared. As in, I had things to say or do, I had responses, for a boy who wanted something I wasn't ready for. 

But NO ONE had ever talked about what to do when you DO want them to do it! 

I don't think anyone ever talked to the boys about that either - I think the boys were counting on the girls to put the breaks on, and when/if the girl didn't the boys were kind of at a loss, and ending up going further than they were comfortable with as they hadn't been taught how to put the breaks on themselves. It was like the rule was you could try, and she'd tell you when to stop. Well - what if she doesn't want to stop?? 

I think we also need to send a loud, clear message to both boys and girls that when you go on a date with someone, whether it's one date or 25 dates, you do not owe them any kind of physical intimacy, nor do they owe you anything. It's disheartening to hear that some believe they are owed something when they pay for a date. No. Just no. I don't care if you spent $100 on dinner, you're not owed more than a high five or a firm handshake at the door. Physical intimacy, even a simple kiss, ought to be an expression of mutual attraction and not an obligation. 

[DesertBlossom]

4 hours ago, Chris in VA said:

I also think video chatting/temptations of sexting and p*orn should be topics of conversation

For real. A friend just discovered her daughter was sexting boys. One threatened to hurt himself if she didn't send pictures. She didn't thankfully. But gah! The conversations we have to have  with our young children is disheartening. Necessary, but disheartening. It's a really tough world out there. 

[Frances]

14 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I think it is really important to emphasize that the "rules" are not things that determine your character - nt things to judge someone on for messing up. That they are safety rules, guidance for leading a happy, fulfilled life. So just like I don't say "don't cross the street without looking both ways" to be judgmental, I don't say sex is best reserved for marriage to be judgmental. That given the ramifications of sex, namely babies but also disease, and then also the hormonal and emotional factors, the safest way to assure it is a wonderful thing is to wait and have it in the confines of a stable, defined, monogamous, hopefully forever relationship. As someone who got pregnant out of wedlock, I'm very able to say that planning a baby and a wedding at the same time is VERY stressful, and that it is much nicer to do so when already married. And that it is harder to leave someone who turns out not to be treating you well, or a good person, if you are already having sex with them for a variety of complicated reasons, both conscious and unconscious. ESPECIALLY if you tend towards wanting to limit your sexual encounters - it can make you want to stay so you can say you didn't have more sexual partners. But even beyond that it can make the relationship seem more serious more quickly, can cause hormonal surges that attach you to the person when you otherwise might not have, etc. 

And again, we go back to babies. That babies happen, a LOT, when you have sex. That we are a very fertile family. That if you are not ready to be having babies with someone you probably shouldn't be having sex with them. And if you ARE ready to have babies with them, well, it's probably time to get married, right?

So it's about practicality, safety, etc not about dirty/clean/purity/etc. That countries, families, and God all have rules, and the point is to keep us safe and happy and productive. Wether that be following traffic rules or chastity. 

(these are my own personal opinions and I have no judgement of other families with other values)

Nm

Edited October 13, 2019 by Frances

[Scarlett]

One thing I think gets missed..just because a person has had sex......doesn’t mean all bets are off and they may as well continue.  If a person  believes it is wrong to have sex outside of marriage.....then they shouldn’t do that.and if they make a mistake.....just don’t do it again.  

[Targhee]

If I could emphasize only one message to my kids - them knowing all the things Maize mentioned - it would be this: You can always come home.

[MercyA]

1 hour ago, DesertBlossom said:

I think this is tricky. I don't think feelings of guilt are necessarily bad. We feel guilty when we make choices outside of our value system. 

Yes.  I believe both our conscience and the Holy Spirit can lead us to feel guilt. I believe it can be a good and healthy thing, causing us to change our behavior and our path in life.

I've been pondering this discussion today. Speaking as a believer, with a child who is a believer, it's not an issue of, "You are a terrible person if you steal / lie / have sex outside of marriage." Rather, it would be an issue of her not living in accordance with her profession of faith. She would be sinning. Sin is not a word we avoid in our home. It's not a word Jesus avoided. We believe that certain actions do in fact offend God--as well as potentially hurt us in many ways, spiritually, physically, and emotionally.

And, so, if my daughter did decide to engage in premarital sex, I would strongly encourage her to examine her profession of faith and what she really believes, with the hope that she would come to repentance. As with any sin--I wouldn't love her any less and she wouldn't be any less valuable of a person (and it's sad I even have to say that).

Edited October 12, 2019 by MercyA

[Frances]

8 hours ago, MercyA said:

Yes.  I believe both our conscience and the Holy Spirit can lead us to feel guilt. I believe it can be a good and healthy thing, causing us to change our behavior and our path in life.

I've been pondering this discussion today. Speaking as a believer, with a child who is a believer, it's not an issue of, "You are a terrible person if you steal / lie / have sex outside of marriage." Rather, it would be an issue of her not living in accordance with her profession of faith. She would be sinning. Sin is not a word we avoid in our home. It's not a word Jesus avoided. We believe that certain actions do in fact offend God--as well as potentially hurt us in many ways, spiritually, physically, and emotionally.

And, so, if my daughter did decide to engage in premarital sex, I would strongly encourage her to examine her profession of faith and what she really believes, with the hope that she would come to repentance. As with any sin--I wouldn't love her any less and she wouldn't be any less valuable of a person (and it's sad I even have to say that).

Nm

Edited October 13, 2019 by Frances

[Rosie_0801]

I've been talking to mine about pair bonding stages. Perhaps your kids would feel less anxious if they had a structure like that to keep in mind, Maize.

[Katy]

I would specifically discuss the damage that's done by purity culture.  A speech by Elizabeth Smart comes to mind.

And also what Katie said about lust.  But also that lust and sexual feelings and orgasm ARE NOT the same as love. And that those feelings are some of the most powerful there are, so it's probably smart to never get in a horizontal position with someone they haven't already decided to have sex with.  Because going from kissing to sex is surprisingly fast in the heat of the moment, especially when you're already horizontal.

And I would discuss that it should be HARD to wait.  Because if it's not there might be something else going on.  The partner might be gay or asexual but in denial, they might be addicted to porn and literally not able to have sex with another person more than 1-2 times, if at all.  If it's not very hard to wait that's a red flag.

That if they decide to have sex before marriage they must be responsible about it.  Multiple forms of birth control.  STI testing.  Emergency contraception if need be.  It's very important to do everything they can to wait to have children until the child is wanted and has a stable family.

And that if they DO get pregnant, come home.  That baby will be loved and celebrated no matter what.

[teachermom2834]

You know how kids squirm when they think  about their parents having sex? Well it sure isn’t easy to think of your kids doing it! (At least for me).

In our case it helped to have our kids move away to go to college. Then they could live their lives and I didn’t have to see it all right up in my face. A little distance has helped here.

I did feel confidently that by the time my kids went to college they were very clear on my opinions on just about everything. We really talked about everything all the time they were growing up. I felt like they were able to move into their adult lives with all the information I needed them to have and with reassurances of unconditional love and support. 

That said, we don’t discuss the details AT ALL.  I am not naive so I imagine my dc are doing things I don’t want to know about. But I really don’t need or want to know. Visiting girlfriends sleep in my dd’s room, not with my boys. I don’t know where they sleep at college because I don’t ask. They don’t ask me to compromise my values in my house. It works for us. I can give them respect and privacy but I don’t need to give a stamp of approval. They get to be their own people and I accept and love them. But I still get to be ME. And they respect and love me too.

My biggest worry, honestly, is that as I have always been pro-life and my dc were raised in a pro- life home and church... I  am afraid they could (or a woman could) make a different choice. I worry they will have that situation in their lives and be unable to tell me. If they were comfortable about it I guess we would all go on and I would never be the wiser. But I hate to think they could be in that situation and struggle with guilt and shame and not feel like they had anywhere to turn on that. We have always tried to couch our position is compassion and love and understanding. But I still am ME and they know me and I do worry about the fallout of that situation 🙁 I just try to reiterate frequently how much we love and support them and respect their adult choices. 

A friend of one of my boys had an unplanned pregnancy and they kept the baby (born shortly after college graduation so not super young). Ds talked to me about that a lot. He said the friend’s mom cried when he told her and then was positive and helping them make a plan the next day. He said “you know- just like you would do”. That made me feel better that he at least felt like I would be there for him.

I didn’t really answer the OP question I guess. It’s a tough thing. Just doing our best.

[maize]

3 hours ago, MercyA said:

Yes.  I believe both our conscience and the Holy Spirit can lead us to feel guilt. I believe it can be a good and healthy thing, causing us to change our behavior and our path in life.

I've been pondering this discussion today. Speaking as a believer, with a child who is a believer, it's not an issue of, "You are a terrible person if you steal / lie / have sex outside of marriage." Rather, it would be an issue of her not living in accordance with her profession of faith. She would be sinning. Sin is not a word we avoid in our home. It's not a word Jesus avoided. We believe that certain actions do in fact offend God--as well as potentially hurt us in many ways, spiritually, physically, and emotionally.

And, so, if my daughter did decide to engage in premarital sex, I would strongly encourage her to examine her profession of faith and what she really believes, with the hope that she would come to repentance. As with any sin--I wouldn't love her any less and she wouldn't be any less valuable of a person (and it's sad I even have to say that).

Brené Brown talks about the difference between guilt and shame; guilt carries with it a sense of "I did something wrong"--guilt can lead us in a positive direction, we can choose to make course corrections, repent, make restitution if possible, and move forward.

Shame is the feeling that "I am a bad person"--shame leads to feelings of worthlessness, hopelessness, inclines us to give up.

It is shame that I am worried about. Purity culture can be a breeding ground for shame. Especially for people who are naturally prone to it.

[DesertBlossom]

3 minutes ago, maize said:

Brené Brown talks about the difference between guilt and shame; guilt carries with it a sense of "I did something wrong"--guilt can lead us in a positive direction, we can choose to make course corrections, repent, make restitution if possible, and move forward.

Shame is the feeling that "I am a bad person"--shame leads to feelings of worthlessness, hopelessness, inclines us to give up.

It is shame that I am worried about. Purity culture can be a breeding ground for shame. Especially for people who are naturally prone to it.

I think modeling healthy sexually behavior and attitudes is important. That includes how we talk about people we know who have had unplanned pregnancies, or porn addictions, etc. We set some pretty impossibly high standards for ourselves in all aspects of our life, but we all mess up somehow, sometime. And it's okay. Even when we make really big, life-altering mistakes. Hopefully no one is using the "licked cupcake" or "chewed gum" analogies anymore because those are absolutely damaging. Let your kids know that you love them, no matter what. And that forgiveness and peace is attainable no matter how big or small the mistake.

[ktgrok]

4 hours ago, MercyA said:

Yes.  I believe both our conscience and the Holy Spirit can lead us to feel guilt. I believe it can be a good and healthy thing, causing us to change our behavior and our path in life.

I've been pondering this discussion today. Speaking as a believer, with a child who is a believer, it's not an issue of, "You are a terrible person if you steal / lie / have sex outside of marriage." Rather, it would be an issue of her not living in accordance with her profession of faith. She would be sinning. Sin is not a word we avoid in our home. It's not a word Jesus avoided. We believe that certain actions do in fact offend God--as well as potentially hurt us in many ways, spiritually, physically, and emotionally.

And, so, if my daughter did decide to engage in premarital sex, I would strongly encourage her to examine her profession of faith and what she really believes, with the hope that she would come to repentance. As with any sin--I wouldn't love her any less and she wouldn't be any less valuable of a person (and it's sad I even have to say that).

 

46 minutes ago, maize said:

Brené Brown talks about the difference between guilt and shame; guilt carries with it a sense of "I did something wrong"--guilt can lead us in a positive direction, we can choose to make course corrections, repent, make restitution if possible, and move forward.

Shame is the feeling that "I am a bad person"--shame leads to feelings of worthlessness, hopelessness, inclines us to give up.

It is shame that I am worried about. Purity culture can be a breeding ground for shame. Especially for people who are naturally prone to it.

Yes. Somehow for some reason the idea around extramarital sex is that it is a permanent change, a stain, that cannot be undone even when you are no longer doing it. That not only is it sinning when you have sex, but you are then forever a sinful person. It's not like that for some reason with other sins in our culture. 

[gardenmom5]

11 hours ago, maize said:

This is kind of a spin-off of Quill's thread.

We teach that sex is best reserved for marriage, it's a pretty big emphasis within our religion. Dh and I both waited, as did many of our family members and friends.

While I teach chastity, I don't want my kids to be saddled with guilt and shame should they act outside of those standards. I've told my older kids that sexuality is a normal human characteristic, is super important actually since it is how we survive as a species, that having sexual thoughts and feelings is normal and not wrong. I've told them that while I teach the standards of behavior that I believe are best I'm not going to think they are terrible people if at some point they become sexually active. I've told them that if any kind of sexual assault were to happen to them they would in no way be responsible or in the wrong. From a religious perspective, we talk about how life is about making mistakes and learning and that's why we have repentance.

I still worry though because several of my kids are prone to anxiety and perfectionism and a tendency towards feeling shame seems to go strongly with those traits.

mom's worry.  it's in our job description.   I have four adults, incl. one who made some unwise choices, that led to inactivity for a period of time.

emphasize there is nothing they can do that you won't love them.   - no matter what, even if they make mistakes/sins - keep praying, Heavenly Father loves them even more than do you and wants to hear from them.  no matter what. Even if they do something counter to the commandments - keep. praying.  My one who made the unwise choices - learned a lot about prayer.  prays hard and receives guidance in many areas  that has very much blessed that child's life, even when struggling with the fall-out of those previous choices.

I know there are places where  'teen girl' leaders  like to use: "sin is like a nail being pounded into a board, repentance is pulling it out" (NO- repentance is getting a new, perfect, board!  observant kids will realize there are still holes in that other board.), and one that kept playing in Elizabeth Smart's head while she was being assaulted - the used up chewing gum.   (assault does nothing to your "gum".  and repentance is a new perfect stick!) - so if you're in one of those areas - address them.  I dislike those object lessons.  they're so simplistic, my fear is they do more harm than good.

no matter how embarrassed they may feel about their choices/mistakes - they can come to you.  you're on their team, and will help them.   No choice is so bad, it can't be repented.  My (raised in a "death, hell, fire, brimstone" religion that she left to become agnostic/atheist) mother, was convinced it was too late for her because she'd committed some very serious sins (and a very serious mistake).  I wish I'd focused more on repentance with her, and that it wasn't too late.  (my last conversation with her was stressing how much even God still loved her.)

and as for sex, it's supposed to be enjoyable. it's frosting on a good relationship.  but we need to build that good relationship first (cake), then we can have sex (frosting) when it's appropriate (the bounds the Lord has set)  and will actually add to the experience.   And . . . it's easier to walk away from someone before engaging in physical intimacy. (and broken engagements are cheaper than divorce.)

the gift of fear: . . gavin de becker.   It is so easy for teens, especially, to feel self-conscious about going against the crowd, they're afraid of being the odd-man out, etc.  sometimes - it's hard to do the right thing.  kids are afraid of not being liked.  Listening to "that little voice" (aka: the spirit) - is there to help them, and can save them a whole heap of grief.  And sometimes it's against what their friends are asking them to do.  (and if they need to blame someone to save face with their friends - they can say "my mom said I can't do that".)  it's ok to not be "polite" all the time.  Sometimes being "polite" - is what gets kids into trouble, even when they know it's a bad path to go down, but their afraid to stick their head out.

[Guest]

I have kind of a strange situation in that my DD has been in adult situations for years, and, especially since about age 12, has been there without a parent present. In her case, we were very pragmatic, not just about values, but about the law-that legally, her college classmates CANNOT date her or be involved with her, and that for her protection AND THEIRS, all contacts need to be in public places, extremely open, etc. This really is both at school, since she started taking classes at the community college at 12, and socially, because she has only a few situations where she is with other people on a social basis, and one of them is a gaming group of mostly adults. Fortunately, the adults are ALSO very concerned about this and do keep that boundary, but it was important for DD to know. She has also been required to do the required awareness training, and has had the concept of informed and enthusiastic consent drummed into her head-along with the idea that as long as she is underage, and a partner is overage, she CANNOT legally consent, and that even the perception of impropriety can totally destroy someone else's life.

 

[Carrie12345]

I really love so much of what’s been said here.

We are not a religious family, and I don’t have any *moral objections to consensual sex, but facts, risks, and my personal experiences and opinions still exist. I want my “kids” to be as physically and emotionally healthy as can be, and some choices are much more so than others!  Even still, the pros and cons will vary by person.  They know what I *want for them (in many, many different aspects) but also know that I love them unconditionally, even when they choose different things.

[MercyA]

@Frances, I'm sorry I didn't have a chance to respond to your post! I was planning to do so today. In any case, thanks as always for the food for thought. 🙂  

[umsami]

On 10/12/2019 at 12:56 PM, maize said:

 

Porn really, really bothers me; it seems like profound objectification of other humans, I worry about a generation that is growing up and training their brains to respond to the thrill of online porn. I do talk with my kids about it but how many of those they will interact with, potentially date or marry have been saturated in it?

In my experience with p*rn, it was sought out because of curiosity and such.  Having to tell kids that "no, this is not the way to learn how to kiss or be a good lover or a good future spouse" was actually eye opening to them.  I then provided them with other resources for the topics they wanted to know about. 

[fairfarmhand]

4 hours ago, dmmetler said:

I have kind of a strange situation in that my DD has been in adult situations for years, and, especially since about age 12, has been there without a parent present. In her case, we were very pragmatic, not just about values, but about the law-that legally, her college classmates CANNOT date her or be involved with her, and that for her protection AND THEIRS, all contacts need to be in public places, extremely open, etc. This really is both at school, since she started taking classes at the community college at 12, and socially, because she has only a few situations where she is with other people on a social basis, and one of them is a gaming group of mostly adults. Fortunately, the adults are ALSO very concerned about this and do keep that boundary, but it was important for DD to know. She has also been required to do the required awareness training, and has had the concept of informed and enthusiastic consent drummed into her head-along with the idea that as long as she is underage, and a partner is overage, she CANNOT legally consent, and that even the perception of impropriety can totally destroy someone else's life.

 

This is very very good, a subject that in multi age homeschool groups I wish some PARENTS would think about. Yes, your dd has hung out with her brothers friends for years. Yes she’s “so mature” but if she’s 16 and they’re 20, everyone has to be careful and wise! 

 

[Donna]

23 hours ago, dmmetler said:

I have kind of a strange situation in that my DD has been in adult situations for years, and, especially since about age 12, has been there without a parent present. In her case, we were very pragmatic, not just about values, but about the law-that legally, her college classmates CANNOT date her or be involved with her, and that for her protection AND THEIRS, all contacts need to be in public places, extremely open, etc. This really is both at school, since she started taking classes at the community college at 12, and socially, because she has only a few situations where she is with other people on a social basis, and one of them is a gaming group of mostly adults. Fortunately, the adults are ALSO very concerned about this and do keep that boundary, but it was important for DD to know. She has also been required to do the required awareness training, and has had the concept of informed and enthusiastic consent drummed into her head-along with the idea that as long as she is underage, and a partner is overage, she CANNOT legally consent, and that even the perception of impropriety can totally destroy someone else's life.

 

Similar situation here with a dd who is always around people who are older than her...the people she works with, hangs out with, (her DE in online so not really interacting in-person there)...except now dd is not below the age of consent in most states so things are a little murkier "law wise." I told someone a few weeks ago the one pitfall to dd's lifestyle and maturity I've recently discovered is she has no interest in boys her own age. Dd is confident and knows what she wants for her life. She does not have a rebellious attitude or feel the need to go with the crowd to gain their approval. This summer for the first time, I felt I needed to tell her I would love her no matter what choices she makes for herself and she can talk to me about anything....even if it means I need to keep my mouth shut and listen unless she asks for my input. She is heading off on tour for six months without me beginning in January and I won't be there with her every day but she knows my stance on these issues and knows the repercussions of certain choices. No different than if she were going away to college except her "peer group" are, for the most part, a bit older than she would be around in college.