more schooltime nanny dilemmas

[caedmyn]

*Please don't quote as I may delete later for privacy.*

We have a part-time nanny/mother's helping coming 4 days/week from 9-1 (so 16 hrs/week) to watch mainly my 1 & 3 yo's while I do school with the others.  We've only had occasional baby-sitters before and I'm not sure how to handle some of the things that are coming up with the nanny.  We do not have any sort of contract with her, and there are a lot of things I didn't think about discussing before she was hired.  She does a fair job overall, great in some areas (she's good with the 3 yo) and not so great in others.  It probably would be difficult to find another nanny, so I'd prefer to keep her.  We are paying quite well and I think she would like to keep the job as it would be pretty difficult to find something else paying this well in this area (just saying this for people to keep in mind as they respond).

For one thing, I don't know how to handle Christmas break pay-wise.  She has 4 kids herself, preschool to middle school age, and their break will be from December 23-Jan 1.  We'll take Christmas week off ourselves, and I really don't want to pay her for Christmas week when she won't be coming and, I'm sure, would like to spend the time with her kids anyway.  Is it fair to tell her (now, so she has lots of time to prepare) that we won't use or pay her for that week?  We already had a situation where we were going to be on vacation for a day one week and two the next, and she asked if she could be paid anyway and I agreed to have her come a different day one week (to make three working days for that week) and pay her for the other two.  I'm willing to pay her for 4 days Thanksgiving week even though we'll only use her three.  I'm also willing to pay her for one "free" day the week of New Year's.  We'll probably do school the 1st-3rd that week, and I thought I'd tell her I'll pay her for one extra day and she can choose whether to come on the 1st or not.  I won't pay her for the 1st if she chooses not to come, so she can get paid for 3 days that week or 4 depending on whether she wants to work on the 1st.  Does that sound reasonable?

Also, when we hired her, it was for M-Th (because we do light school on Fridays) and we said we'd occasionally want her for a Friday instead of one of the other days.  She agreed to that, but a couple weeks ago mentioned that she had another job on Friday now.  I feel a little bit frustrated that she won't be available that day when she originally said she would.  If there's a week when we plan to take a day off M-Th but do a full day Fridays and she's not available on Friday, should I still need to pay her for the full 4 day week?

I'm also not sure how much leeway I should give as far as her being late due to weather or family stuff.  She's worked for us for 5 weeks, and there have been 4 times so far when she said she might be late.  Twice she was 10-15 minutes late (once due to bad roads and once due to a meeting for a child at school not being done early enough).  The other two times she said she had to drop her husband off in a different city.  I believe she was on time one of those days and a few (like 3) minutes late the other.  I want to be reasonable, but at the same time we're paying her to be here at 9 and I'd really like her to be here at 9.  I can see being late once or maybe twice a month, but it seems like it's going to end up being more than that.  I don't mind her being late on the first day of really bad roads, but this is Montana and we're headed into winter and...there will be many days of bad roads.  What seems reasonable as far as making allowances for weather or family needs and lateness?

And third, I'd like to start having her leave at 12:30 instead of 1.  When we hired her we told her that we wanted her to supervise all the kids eating lunch so I could have a bit of down time, and she agreed to that and said she could be firm with them.  That hasn't worked out because she mostly lets the older ones do what they want during lunch.  (People can debate about whether it's reasonable to expect her to watch the older ones; in my mind, when I leave the 1, 3, & 8 yo's with her for 75 minutes while I take the 6 YO to his speech therapy...10 yo went with us...and she's supposed to feed them sandwiches for lunch, and I get home and the 8 yo's says he made himself a plate of nachos instead...she should have prevented that.  I don't expect her to try to make him eat a sandwich, but I do expect her to tell him that nachos are not what's for lunch, and insist that he doesn't make himself some.  She doesn't do anything to prevent the older ones from doing what they want except tell them once not to do something, and then let them do it.)  Since that wasn't working out, I asked her if she would be willing to make lunch instead and she said she didn't mind, so I've been having her do that.  Then I intended to sit with them while they eat.  But I don't end up sitting with them because she's here and she sits with them, and if I did sit with them, she wouldn't have anything to do while they eat anyway.  She does clear and wipe off the table after lunch (her choice, I didn't ask her to) which is nice but lunch clean-up is the older kids' job anyway so it's not something I actually need her to do.  (We had actually wanted her to supervise the older kids' doing lunch clean-up so I could spend a little time with the younger ones--this was agreed to at the time we hired her--but since they don't listen to her I dropped that idea pretty quickly.)  So I really don't need her to be here from 12:30 to 1.  It would actually work out better if she wasn't here because I would feel more free to do what works for us as far as lunchtime and lunch cleanup, instead of trying to adjust the way we do those things so she can be here that whole time.  But I'm not sure how to say that we don't need her after 12:30.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Maybe others with more experience will have better thoughts here.  

The only thing that stood out to me....In my experience, with a part time nanny/babysitting job, you are only paid when you work.  Actually, that is true for any part time job.  There aren't vacation days, etc for employees in that situation.   If you deem certain weeks that she will not work, I personally don't see how she can expect pay?

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Attolia

[caedmyn]

3 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Did you specifically hire her from 9-1:00? If she is counting on a certain amount of money then shortening the hours might be tricky.

Yes, we did.  But we also specifically hired her to do certain things from 12 to 1 (supervise lunch and then supervise kitchen clean-up) and those things aren't happening.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Because she's only been with you for a few weeks, I'd be tempted to arrange a meeting to discuss how things are going and maybe put the job description in writing.

If she'd been with you for months, this could feel awkward, but I think that the 6 week mark would feel suitable to nail down some details.

[Catwoman]

10 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Did you specifically hire her from 9-1:00? If she is counting on a certain amount of money then shortening the hours might be tricky.

 

Agreed.

Also, are you seriously keeping track of when she is 3 minutes late? I think that’s kind of ridiculous, and you won’t keep employees very long if you’re upset about 3 minutes.

I understand not wanting her to be habitually late, but the two times when she was 10-15 minutes late, it sounds like she had no other choice and she informed you ahead of time. That’s a lot different from just breezing in anytime she feels like it.

I think some of your expectations of her might be a bit excessive. It seems almost like you expect her to be very flexible and work around your schedule, but that you are not necessarily willing to do extend her the same courtesy.

Have you considered that this woman might not be the best person for the job? You seem to have a lot of issues with the way she does things. You might be better served by hiring someone else, or else you might want to consider loosening up your expectations a little bit.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Catwoman
Today is Typo Thursday!

[freesia]

I might talk to her about the 12:30 time and share with her your thoughts.  You could say what you told us, "I hired you to do xyz during this time, it's not happening, so unless it starts happening I will need to shorten your hours.

With the tardy thing, I would also tell her that's bothering you (probably not the 3 minute thing).

I would not pay, nor would I have expected to be paid over Christmas for a part time hourly job.

I also would talk to her about the Friday thing.  It was fine for her to take a job, but since you expected her to have that day free to change the days and now you can't, you'll only pay her for 3 days on those weeks.  When ds's job canceled a shift and asked him to work a different day, but he was busy, he didn't get paid for that shift anyway. 

[LJPPKGFGSC]

I think that the flexibility needs to go both ways.  If you want to change her hours from 1:00 pm to 12:30 pm, then you need to give her flexibility to come late on occasion.  If you want to switch days, from another day to Friday, then you should allow her to sometimes take a day off and switch to a day that works better for her.  You can't have it both ways - at least if you want a happy, productive employee.

[TheReader]

I think you and your DH need to very quickly figure out if you are paying x amount per month, period, to have her coming in at those times (and thus you would still pay that amount even if she is a bit late, or you take off a day, or whatever) OR if you are paying x amount per hour, and she only gets paid for the time she's actually there (as you would with a babysitter). 

You sound like you lean towards "we're paying her by the hour" but that she thinks "they're paying me by the month" and that *really* needs to get clarified, soon. 

If you are firm on the "by the hour" part, then, yes, you'd only pay her for the time she's actually there. So, you take off a day and swap to Friday, but she can't come b/c of her other job, she only gets paid for 3 days that week. You're off for Christmas, she's off, she doesn't get paid. You offer that she *can* come on the 1st or not, she chooses not to, she doesn't get paid. You reduce her hours from ending at 1 to ending at 12:30, you adjust her pay accordingly (so, what, 2 hrs fewer per week/8 hrs fewer per month?). She's late, you keep track and reduce it when you pay her. She's sick, or her kids are, or you are, or your kids are, or whatever....no pay. Etc. 

OR, you realize that you are not just paying for the time she's at your house, but ALSO the committed availability, the guarantee of having someone available/willing to come in every day, each week, at that time, and OF COURSE it's reasonable to pay a set amount for the month in order to have that commitment rather than dealing with uncertainty each week. In that case, if you cancel a regular day to swap to Friday, and she can't come on Friday, you still pay her the full rate b/c you are the one that cancelled on her, and you still want her to come the following week. 

If you choose to do school on a holiday, and she chooses not to, you still pay her for that, because you still want her to come the next week. 

You take off for Christmas, and she takes off for Christmas, YES, if you tell her now, you can not pay her for that week, because it's agreed upon early/ahead of time. (Or if you really want to, you pay her for that week anyway as a thank-you/Christmas bonus/because you want her to come back the next week). 

You adjust her hours from 16 hours/week to 14 hrs/week, you may (assuming she agrees) adjust her pay accordingly going forward. 

She's late, with notice, you accept that. You may have her stay late to make up for it, or, let her know if there's more than 1 hour worth of tardiness in a month, you'll deduct that from her pay that month. (I mean, I wouldn't go around deducting 15 mins of pay each month, that's very nitpicky, but if she's 15 mins late 4x a month.....that's a lot, and yes, that would be worth deducting maybe). Personally, I'd shift lunch by 15 mins to make up for it, if possible, rather than hassle with keeping up with a time card or something, but that's just me. 

The bigger question would be what's the cancellation policy if she, you, your kids, whoever, are sick and she can't come/you cancel on her/ask her not to come. One "free" sick day/month? Obviously you don't want to have her come if she's ill (and I wouldn't ask her to come if your kids are ill, either), and if YOU are the one that cancels on her, I'd be inclined, personally, to still pay her. If she cancels b/c she or her kids are sick, I don't know. You don't want a policy that encourages her to come despite being sick, and then you & she are passing around illness between all of you/your children all winter, but neither should you have to pay for tons of time when she's not really there. Maybe a policy similar to the tardy policy...? One free sick day/month, and anything beyond that, she makes up the hours? Maybe comes 30 mins/an hour earlier the rest of the week (or stays later, or whatever) to make up for it? I don't know. 

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Hope it helps. 

[caedmyn]

23 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Agreed.

Also, are you seriously keeping track of when she is 3 minutes late? I think that’s kind of ridiculous, and you won’t keep employees very long if you’re upset about 3 minutes.

I understand not wanting her to be habitually late, but the two times when she was 10-15 minutes late, it sounds like she had no other choice and she informed you ahead of time. That’s a lot different from just breezing in anytime she feels like it.

I think some of your expectations of her might be a bit excessive. It seems almost like you expect her to be very flexible and work around your schedule, but that you are not necessarily willing to do extend her the same courtesy.

Have you considered that this woman might not be the best person for the job? You seem to have a lot of issues with the way she does things. You might be better served by hiring someone else, or else you might want to consider loosening up your expectations a little bit.

I'm more concerned about how often I'm going to have to worry/think about whether she'll be late or not.  There were three times this week when she was late or said she might be late--one weather-related time, one school-meeting time, and one day I forgot about when one of her kids went home because the school said they were sick.  So I'm wondering, is there going to be one family-related late start time or possible late start time per week? And there's likely to be at least one bad road day per week starting in a month or so...so is she potentially going to be late two out of four days per week?  That's my concern.  And I'm not looking to censure her for the two times she was 10-15 mins later, I just want to know what reasonable expectations are.  That's why I'm asking here.  If it's reasonable that something might "come up" once a week for her to be 10-15 minutes late, I can't say I'll be thrilled, but I won't say anything if that turns out to be the case.

[caedmyn]

17 minutes ago, TheReader said:

I think you and your DH need to very quickly figure out if you are paying x amount per month, period, to have her coming in at those times (and thus you would still pay that amount even if she is a bit late, or you take off a day, or whatever) OR if you are paying x amount per hour, and she only gets paid for the time she's actually there (as you would with a babysitter). 

You sound like you lean towards "we're paying her by the hour" but that she thinks "they're paying me by the month" and that *really* needs to get clarified, soon. 

 

The bigger question would be what's the cancellation policy if she, you, your kids, whoever, are sick and she can't come/you cancel on her/ask her not to come. One "free" sick day/month? Obviously you don't want to have her come if she's ill (and I wouldn't ask her to come if your kids are ill, either), and if YOU are the one that cancels on her, I'd be inclined, personally, to still pay her. If she cancels b/c she or her kids are sick, I don't know. You don't want a policy that encourages her to come despite being sick, and then you & she are passing around illness between all of you/your children all winter, but neither should you have to pay for tons of time when she's not really there. Maybe a policy similar to the tardy policy...? One free sick day/month, and anything beyond that, she makes up the hours? Maybe comes 30 mins/an hour earlier the rest of the week (or stays later, or whatever) to make up for it? I don't know. 

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Hope it helps. 

Hmmm, yes, that might be helpful to figure out as far as hourly vs. monthly.  I think maybe she considers that we're paying her weekly.  But we did specifically discuss an hourly rate when we hired her.

What we discussed as far as illness was that she would come unless they have a stomach bug.  We didn't specifically discuss influenza but I already didn't have her come three days last month because we had a flu-like illness and I didn't want her to catch it, and she was paid for all three days.  As far as if she is sick...idk.  I wouldn't want her to come if she has a stomach bug or flu symptoms, and probably not if she has a bad cold.  She said her kids don't miss much school because of illness and her husband stayed with them last year every time they were sick, so I'm assuming her kids being sick is a non-issue.  If she cancels because one of hers is sick I'm not going to want to pay her for the day. 

We did discuss public school holidays in general (like MLK Day) and she said would work those days, but we didn't specifically discuss Thanksgiving, Christmas break, or New Year's.

[caedmyn]

Really it would be a lot simpler, and a lot cheaper, to send the 3 yo to preschool or daycare for a half day.  He's the one who makes it really difficult to get school done.  But DH doesn't want him to go to daycare, so we have to have someone come to the house to watch him.

[RootAnn]

I agree that you should write down some things expectation-wise & sit down to talk with her about changes & procedures going forward. Then, write up what you agree to & present that to her the next time she comes in. Probably have both of you sign two copies so each of you have a copy.

Otherwise, @TheReader had a thorough & thoughtful post full of suggestions. Clarifying paying by the week vs hour will be super important. I'd lean toward being very clear now because she's likely to slack off more as time goes on. It won't get any better.

[catz]

9 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

Really it would be a lot simpler, and a lot cheaper, to send the 3 yo to preschool or daycare for a half day.  He's the one who makes it really difficult to get school done.  But DH doesn't want him to go to daycare, so we have to have someone come to the house to watch him.

Well, I have to say play based preschool was awesome for my kids and great for me too.  It was actually a great set up for homeschooling because they got used to being a little more structured with their time - story time, snack time, play time, craft time, etc.   If you thought that would work better for everyone, I would make a case to convince him of a trial of that.  The preschools my kids went to were not daycares.  They were just half day open ended preschool programs that you could do 3-5 days a week.  

Edited October 10, 2019 by FuzzyCatz

[caedmyn]

Maybe I could negotiate the 1/2 hr less per day in exchange for it being a weekly or monthly pay rate instead of an hourly one.  I wouldn't mind keeping the hours the same if I felt it was useful for her to be here the whole time, even if she was doing something other than kid watching for a bit, but right now I feel like the last hour that she's here is mostly a waste and I'm shifting things around in a way that isn't really great for my family in order to accomodate her being here.

[Melissa in Australia]

I have only ever paid people for the actual time they are coming - not holidays. that is why part time workers get a higher hourly rate.

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, caedmyn said:

And third, I'd like to start having her leave at 12:30 instead of 1

You could ask her to come in 30 minutes earlier if it's possible with her kids' school schedules. 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, caedmyn said:

Really it would be a lot simpler, and a lot cheaper, to send the 3 yo to preschool or daycare for a half day.  He's the one who makes it really difficult to get school done.  But DH doesn't want him to go to daycare, so we have to have someone come to the house to watch him.

 

Does your dh realize how stressful it is for you to have the sitter in your home?

For what it’s worth, I think the decision about preschool should be yours to make, because you are the one affected by it. Your dh should trust that you wouldn’t leave your child at a preschool that isn’t both safe and fun for him.

It’s obvious that you are a very concerned mom.

I think the preschool is probably your best option.

[Xahm]

If I were her, I'd want to sit down with you for 20 minutes or so (during my workday) and discuss how things are going. I bet she has questions for you, too. If you have a laundry list of things you want to tell her about, you should probably got a couple of the most important, then give her a chance to talk to see if some of her concerns overlap with yours. I watched kids while their mom was home once in high school and hated it fiercely. It was horrible awkward to know how to co-lead children alongside their mom. If she can get to know you better, it might ease a lot of the problems you are having.

[hippiemamato3]

I don't think it's reasonable to be annoyed that she got a job for Fridays. You weren't/aren't paying her for Fridays, so there should not have been any expectation she'd keep them open for you. 

[freesia]

Another thing I thought of is that remember you need to be taking out Social Security and issuing her tax forms.  She is considered your employee legally working in your home that many hours a week.  I don't think that the US has the p/t benefits thing laid out like AUS or the UK or Canada, but you should check.

 

[City Mouse]

I think you need to figure out exactly what you want and how you want things done. The arrange a time to sit down with her without the children present to walk about how things are going and how you want things to be different. Share your concerns, and give her a chance to share hers. Hopefully you can come to a happy medium, but be prepared to have her decide to stop working for you if she doesn’t like your new plan. I don’t think it unreasonable for you to reassess what you want as having a nanny is as new to you as being one is to her.

other thoughts

Be specific.  Have you told her that the kids can only have what is planned for lunch? Have you told her what you expect her to do when they try to make something else? -In my house a kid deciding make something else is acceptable.

What do you want her to do besides give a verbal warning? Have you set up a discipline plan for her? I would assume you don’t want a physical altercation, so tell her what you do want her to do. (I have watched too many episodes of super nanny). Post the rules. Give her and the kids a list of consequences and rewards maybe.

Yeah, I agree that you are being a bit unreasonable with the late thing. You hired a woman with school age kids. They will get sick sometimes. They have meetings and events at school. 

Sounds like you need to clarify the work hours and pay structure. Have a daily time sheet if you are concerned about paying her when she is late. If you are paying her hourly make share she understands that. Write out how you will handle sick days (hers and yours),  holidays etc. i don’t think it is unreasonable for you to not pay her when she or her kids are sick and she has to cancel at the last minute. At the same time, if you cancel or switch days at the last minute, I do think you should pay her. If there is not much notice, she wouldn’t have the option of planning other work. I would not expect her to keep a day free on the off chance that you might want her to come that day.

maybe set up a monthly calendar in advance letting her know which days you want her to work. 

 

It it sounds like neither one of you really had any idea of how to set this up, and that is okay. I recently started a job as an independent contractor for the first time, and I didn’t know many things that really would have helped if I had known in advance. I am just starting a contract job with a different entity and now I know how to handle this better. Your situation seems a bit like mine.

i will mention that as an independent contractor, I pay all my own taxes which includes social security. In my state I even have to file monthly sales tax(called gross receipts tax), but I pass that one on to the companies just like stores charge sales tax above the price of the goods sold.

Edited October 11, 2019 by City Mouse

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, hippiemamato3 said:

I don't think it's reasonable to be annoyed that she got a job for Fridays. You weren't/aren't paying her for Fridays, so there should not have been any expectation she'd keep them open for you. 

 

I agree. And on the positive side, at least she was honest with you about it, so there will be no surprises later. 

I know you aren’t too pleased with her so far, but all in all, she sounds like she is upfront and honest, and I haven’t heard you say that she has ever been at all unkind to your children, so if you are going to have someone in your home, it may be worth working out some compromises with her that you can both live with.

On the other hand, you seem to be a bit hyper-critical of almost everything she does, and I’m starting to suspect that what you really want is to enroll your son in preschool so you can fire her and have your house and your kids all to yourself. (I don’t mean that in a snarky way — it can be hard to have someone watch your kids while you’re right there in the house with her, particularly when that person is more casual about the rules than you are. I can understand why you may not be comfortable with it. 

[Melissa in Australia]

4 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

Casuals get a hirer rate - p/t workers get a lower rate because they have p/t benefits. The higher rate for casuals is to compensate for the lack of sick leave, holiday pay etc. 

true

 the people I have had come into my home to help have had their own ABN number. so they are their own business and I am just hiring them at an hourly rate - so no need for me to pay holidays, sick days, work-cover, tax  or anything like that, just the hours I am employing them for.

 This has included a house cleaner (when I had one) and now a disability support worker for respite. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Melissa in Australia

[school17777]

If you decide to continue with you, maybe consider having her prepare your dinner from 12:30-1 rather than focusing on the kids, which wasn’t going as well as you had hoped.  Cutting her time with you/pay will stink for her because it’s not like she has time to find other work during that time.

Also, if she comes late, which her reasons didn’t seem unreasonable, can she stay later to make up for it?  I am assuming she can’t leave earlier because of getting her kids out the door.

[caedmyn]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

I agree. And on the positive side, at least she was honest with you about it, so there will be no surprises later. 

I know you aren’t too pleased with her so far, but all in all, she sounds like she is upfront and honest, and I haven’t heard you say that she has ever been at all unkind to your children, so if you are going to have someone in your home, it may be worth working out some compromises with her that you can both live with.

On the other hand, you seem to be a bit hyper-critical of almost everything she does, and I’m starting to suspect that what you really want is to enroll your son in preschool so you can fire her and have your house and your kids all to yourself. (I don’t mean that in a snarky way — it can be hard to have someone watch your kids while you’re right there in the house with her, particularly when that person is more casual about the rules than you are. I can understand why you may not be comfortable with it. 

*Please don’t quote”

 

I did say in the OP that I'd prefer to keep her.  I'm not unwilling to compromise or be reasonable.  It's just a big jump to go from having a once-a-week sitter where sometimes we can't do it, sometimes they can't do it, sometimes someone is sick, people take vacations or there's a big holiday and we skip a week, and no one expects to pay or be paid when there's no babysitting that week...to an expectation (it seems, though we never discussed this) that the sitter will be paid no matter who skips what or for what reason.

DH will never agree to enrolling 3 YO in preschool so it's a moot point.  I can just see some advantages of doing that.  I feel comfortable enough with her being at the house.  I just have a hard time with feeling like I can't stop school and go to the park, for instance, or decide to take a day off, because I still have to pay her for that time.  I'm not saying this is her fault, and I understand that it's not reasonable to expect her to go unpaid because I want to change something last minute.  But I do dislike feeling like I just can't do those things because I'd be wasting the money that she'd be getting paid when she wasn't actually doing anything at all.

I think I feel less willing to give on some things because I'm a little bit frustrated overall.  When we hired her, we said that she would primarily be watching the 1 & 3 YO's, and would watch the 6 YO also once his school was done for the day.  We also said that we wanted her to supervise lunch and after-lunch-chores.  We told her that we needed someone who could be firm and that the kids would test and see what they could get away with.  She agreed to all this and said she could be firm and she thought she could handle them.  She does great when she just has the 3 YO, which she does for about 2 hours a day because the 1 YO naps.  She doesn't have the 1 YO a whole lot anyway because he's just starting to warm up to her and is still unhappy with her a good part of the time (which is not her fault and I don't hold it against her at all, and he's not much trouble anyway).  But when the 6 YO joins her, often she'll start doing something with him and not pay much attention to the 3 YO, and he'll come bother me or run around without supervision.  I do feel a little frustrated that she makes very little attempt to manage the older ones.  I did give her a discipline tool, giving them breaks (short time-outs basically), and told her to only tell them once and then give them a break.  They are used to taking breaks and I don't think they'll make much of a fuss about taking them, and if they do, I told her to let me know.  But she's only very rarely (like once or twice) giving them breaks and mostly telling them something once and then letting them do whatever.  I haven't talked to her about every single thing but I have talked to her about some things and I feel like I'm mainly getting excuses and not changes.  Me: "They need to stay sitting in their seats at lunchtime."  Her: "I did tell them to sit down."   Ok...but you have to do more than tell them, you have to actually follow through and have them sit down (and I did say this to her, a bit more politely, and didn't see any difference).  Walk up to them and tell them again to sit down, tell them to take a break, tell me...something other than once and done.  Yes they can be really difficult, but at this point this isn't a case of "she's tried hard to get them to listen to her and they're not doing it".

I do need to sit down with her and go over what I'm expecting her to do with the kids again and see how that goes.  I'm just not real optimistic that anything is going to change with the way she interacts with the older kids based on what I've seen so far.  And I've already made changes to what I originally wanted her to do because she didn't seem able to handle the lunch stuff (and I asked her if she was willing before changing her duties, because I didn't want her to feel she had to do something she hadn't originally agreed to do).

And the Friday thing...we were up front about wanting her to work the occasional Friday and she agreed to that.  If she'd said that she was going to need to find regular work on Fridays, or that she already had a job on Fridays, that would have been ok.  It wasn't a deal-breaker.  But she didn't say that, and she didn't even let me know afterward that she was going to find Friday work and thus wouldn't be available on Fridays, she just said that now she has another job on Fridays, so that does bother me a little bit that she did it that way.

I don't mind overlooking occasional lateness.  I just don't want it to turn into her scheduling all her kids' doctor, dentist, etc appts at 8 am, or regularly needing to drive her husband somewhere, and expecting it to be fine if they run late and she shows up late.  Same for bad roads...a business expects their employees to allow extra time for weather-related driving delays if it's a common thing so they can be at work on time, and so do I.  Once in a while is not a big deal, but I don't know yet if it will turn into an every-time-the-roads-are-bad thing.



 

Edited October 11, 2019 by caedmyn

[caedmyn]

38 minutes ago, school17777 said:

If you decide to continue with you, maybe consider having her prepare your dinner from 12:30-1 rather than focusing on the kids, which wasn’t going as well as you had hoped.  Cutting her time with you/pay will stink for her because it’s not like she has time to find other work during that time.

Also, if she comes late, which her reasons didn’t seem unreasonable, can she stay later to make up for it?  I am assuming she can’t leave earlier because of getting her kids out the door.

She can't come earlier.  I could ask if she could stay later if she's more than...5 minutes? 10 minutes?...late.  Idk how much time late should be made up.

If she would be willing to do dinner prep from 12:30 to 1 I would be thrilled with that.  I really dislike making dinner.  I'll have to think about how that could work some more (I don't have a lot of make-ahead recipes).

[vonfirmath]

37 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

I don't mind overlooking occasional lateness.  I just don't want it to turn into her scheduling all her kids' doctor, dentist, etc appts at 8 am, or regularly needing to drive her husband somewhere, and expecting it to be fine if they run late and she shows up late.  Same for bad roads...a business expects their employees to allow extra time for weather-related driving delays if it's a common thing so they can be at work on time, and so do I.  Once in a while is not a big deal, but I don't know yet if it will turn into an every-time-the-roads-are-bad thing.
 

 

With kids of her own, the beginning time at your house may be partially based on when she can get all of them out to school, etc. And so no, she can't start earlier when the roads are bad. She still has to take care of getting her own kids where they need to be, which have various start times to take into account.

My work decided to change their start times to 7am (so 7-4) instead of the 8a-5p I was origjnally hired under. During the school year, luckily, I can put my younger one on the bus and make it to work (barely) at 7am. But during the summer? Childcare doesn't open until 7. So I got there regularly at 7:30a. Luckily we arranged for me to do some work from home and they are being okay with the hours I can make it, even though I also have child duties. It's just part of being a mom.

 

[Catwoman]

37 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

She can't come earlier.  I could ask if she could stay later if she's more than...5 minutes? 10 minutes?...late.  Idk how much time late should be made up.

If she would be willing to do dinner prep from 12:30 to 1 I would be thrilled with that.  I really dislike making dinner.  I'll have to think about how that could work some more (I don't have a lot of make-ahead recipes).

 

Dinner prep? Seriously?

I thought she was a sitter, not your personal chef.

I hope you are paying this woman exceptionally well, because you seem to expect an awful lot from her.

 

[Catwoman]

44 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

I did say in the OP that I'd prefer to keep her.  I'm not unwilling to compromise or be reasonable.  It's just a big jump to go from having a once-a-week sitter where sometimes we can't do it, sometimes they can't do it, sometimes someone is sick, people take vacations or there's a big holiday and we skip a week, and no one expects to pay or be paid when there's no babysitting that week...to an expectation (it seems, though we never discussed this) that the sitter will be paid no matter who skips what or for what reason.

DH will never agree to enrolling 3 YO in preschool so it's a moot point.  I can just see some advantages of doing that.  I feel comfortable enough with her being at the house.  I just have a hard time with feeling like I can't stop school and go to the park, for instance, or decide to take a day off, because I still have to pay her for that time.  I'm not saying this is her fault, and I understand that it's not reasonable to expect her to go unpaid because I want to change something last minute.  But I do dislike feeling like I just can't do those things because I'd be wasting the money that she'd be getting paid when she wasn't actually doing anything at all.

I think I feel less willing to give on some things because I'm a little bit frustrated overall.  When we hired her, we said that she would primarily be watching the 1 & 3 YO's, and would watch the 6 YO also once his school was done for the day.  We also said that we wanted her to supervise lunch and after-lunch-chores.  We told her that we needed someone who could be firm and that the kids would test and see what they could get away with.  She agreed to all this and said she could be firm and she thought she could handle them.  She does great when she just has the 3 YO, which she does for about 2 hours a day because the 1 YO naps.  She doesn't have the 1 YO a whole lot anyway because he's just starting to warm up to her and is still unhappy with her a good part of the time (which is not her fault and I don't hold it against her at all, and he's not much trouble anyway).  But when the 6 YO joins her, often she'll start doing something with him and not pay much attention to the 3 YO, and he'll come bother me or run around without supervision.  I do feel a little frustrated that she makes very little attempt to manage the older ones.  I did give her a discipline tool, giving them breaks (short time-outs basically), and told her to only tell them once and then give them a break.  They are used to taking breaks and I don't think they'll make much of a fuss about taking them, and if they do, I told her to let me know.  But she's only very rarely (like once or twice) giving them breaks and mostly telling them something once and then letting them do whatever.  I haven't talked to her about every single thing but I have talked to her about some things and I feel like I'm mainly getting excuses and not changes.  Me: "They need to stay sitting in their seats at lunchtime."  Her: "I did tell them to sit down."   Ok...but you have to do more than tell them, you have to actually follow through and have them sit down (and I did say this to her, a bit more politely, and didn't see any difference).  Walk up to them and tell them again to sit down, tell them to take a break, tell me...something other than once and done.  Yes they can be really difficult, but at this point this isn't a case of "she's tried hard to get them to listen to her and they're not doing it".

I do need to sit down with her and go over what I'm expecting her to do with the kids again and see how that goes.  I'm just not real optimistic that anything is going to change with the way she interacts with the older kids based on what I've seen so far.  And I've already made changes to what I originally wanted her to do because she didn't seem able to handle the lunch stuff (and I asked her if she was willing before changing her duties, because I didn't want her to feel she had to do something she hadn't originally agreed to do).

And the Friday thing...we were up front about wanting her to work the occasional Friday and she agreed to that.  If she'd said that she was going to need to find regular work on Fridays, or that she already had a job on Fridays, that would have been ok.  It wasn't a deal-breaker.  But she didn't say that, and she didn't even let me know afterward that she was going to find Friday work and thus wouldn't be available on Fridays, she just said that now she has another job on Fridays, so that does bother me a little bit that she did it that way.

I don't mind overlooking occasional lateness.  I just don't want it to turn into her scheduling all her kids' doctor, dentist, etc appts at 8 am, or regularly needing to drive her husband somewhere, and expecting it to be fine if they run late and she shows up late.  Same for bad roads...a business expects their employees to allow extra time for weather-related driving delays if it's a common thing so they can be at work on time, and so do I.  Once in a while is not a big deal, but I don't know yet if it will turn into an every-time-the-roads-are-bad thing.

 

I know you keep saying that you want to keep her, but everything you post about her is at least partially negative.

Maybe your expectations are way too high and you are trying to control every moment she is in your house so you will feel like you are getting your money’s worth out of every second she’s there. Maybe she really and truly is incompetent and she isn’t cut out for the job. Or maybe she would be perfect for a more relaxed family that is less schedule-and-rules-oriented than yours. It doesn’t really matter because whatever the case, it appears that she is not the right person to be working in your home. 

You can’t force her to change her personality. She’s not a disciplinarian and she prefers to be more relaxed about rules. She isn’t comfortable doling out any kind of punishments. You want someone stricter, who will enforce your house rules. You can try to get her to comply with your wishes, but I’m not sure you will ever be happy with her, and she may even end up quitting if she feels like she isn’t allowed to supervise your children in a way she feels is best.

This isn’t a criticism of you at all. It’s your house and your rules. But if you and the nanny have fundamentally different parenting styles, I think you are destined for constant displeasure with her. I know that I’m not a rules-oriented mom and I don’t do punishments, either, so your nanny might have been great at my house... but she’s probably not so great at your house.

[Pen]

Sit down with her and discuss how things are going so far, and expectations and possible changes for future.  

I don’t know what you are paying, or what she enjoys doing and can do easily. A personal chef in my area might run $100 or more per meal for around 7 people . (Not including the food itself) While a Nanny might only be $20 per hour, though perhaps more with several and or special needs kids.  Cleaning/organizing is around $15-30per hour.   This would be for businesses that do their own taxes etc, not sure about 16hr/wk household employees. 

I would not assume “no nachos” to be clear unless you had told her so.  Nor would I assume that you want her to make the kids do chores not do them herself would be clear unless specifically explained.  

 

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

Sit down with her and discuss how things are going so far, and expectations and possible changes for future.  

I don’t know what you are paying, or what she enjoys doing and can do easily. A personal chef in my area might run $100 or more per meal for around 7 people . (Not including the food itself) While a Nanny might only be $20 per hour, though perhaps more with several and or special needs kids.  Cleaning/organizing is around $15-30per hour.   This would be for businesses that do their own taxes etc, not sure about 16hr/wk household employees. 

I would not assume “no nachos” to be clear unless you had told her so.  Nor would I assume that you want her to make the kids do chores not do them herself would be clear unless specifically explained.  

 

 

I’m still not clear why the “no nachos” thing was such a big deal. I don’t think you can act like a control freak over every little thing. When you have employees, you have to give them some leeway to make decisions. This is an adult who has children of her own, not some inexperienced 12 year old mother’s helper. I think she deserves at least some level of trust and autonomy.

[Chris in VA]

I said in the other thread that I would fire her and start over, after a period of discerning exactly what the job description is. But if you want to keep her, then I think you need to meet with her and get things in writing. Pay her for the meeting, of course. 

Don't feel you have to negotiate. You seem to be treating her two ways, neither which is as an employee.  I see you being nice to her face but irritable behind her back and unwilling to get your cards on the table and clear things up. 

You are the employer so (gently) quit treating her as just another mom who is helping you and start actually being her boss. The lack of a clearly defined job is kinda stunning. 

But you can go from here. Just be aware you might be on a sinking ship. 

[school17777]

4 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

Dinner prep? Seriously?

I thought she was a sitter, not your personal chef.

I hope you are paying this woman exceptionally well, because you seem to expect an awful lot from her.

 

 

She was responding to my suggestion.  I was a nanny and I did dinner prep.

[PeterPan]

7 hours ago, caedmyn said:

Me: "They need to stay sitting in their seats at lunchtime."  Her: "I did tell them to sit down."   Ok...but you have to do more than tell them, you have to actually follow through and have them sit down (and I did say this to her, a bit more politely, and didn't see any difference).  Walk up to them and tell them again to sit down, tell them to take a break, tell me...something other than once and done.  Yes they can be really difficult, but at this point this isn't a case of "she's tried hard to get them to listen to her and they're not doing it".

Are they needing a play break before lunch? Why are they having trouble sitting? Is the expectation too long, like more than 5 minutes? It doesn't take that long for kids to eat lunch. 

My ds is hard to get to eat with a group, like that's actually a thing we monitor (that he will sit at the table, that he asks to leave), but he has ASD and needs support.

Maybe think through what you're expecting and why it's needing to be a behavioral goal, because a paid hourly worker like that, unless they're RBT trained and working under a behaviorist/BCBA, probably isn't in a position to make demands and enforce behavior goals.

[PeterPan]

6 hours ago, Chris in VA said:

I would fire her and start over

This is a question for anyone who knows, @StellaM, how would Caedmyn go about finding an actual professional nanny if she did fire her current hire? I've used Care.com but I didn't know if there are other places people look? 

[Pen]

If you are home I don’t understand why you can’t give a “stay in your seat” order yourself?  Or do they only obey if you are within striking distance? 

Maybe she could continue to Nanny the little ones during lunch and you could do group schooling with the biggers over lunch.  (Allowing DD13 to sleep later by taking pressure off breakfast time 🙂) 

 

[Chris in VA]

30 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

This is a question for anyone who knows, @StellaM, how would Caedmyn go about finding an actual professional nanny if she did fire her current hire? I've used Care.com but I didn't know if there are other places people look? 

Depending on her state and area, she could do her own advertising (Glassdoor, Sittercity, even Monster). I think she will want a babysitter vs a nanny, though, as it is very part time with no benefits or paid leave. 

[QueenCat]

10 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

I know you keep saying that you want to keep her, but everything you post about her is at least partially negative.

Maybe your expectations are way too high and you are trying to control every moment she is in your house so you will feel like you are getting your money’s worth out of every second she’s there. Maybe she really and truly is incompetent and she isn’t cut out for the job. Or maybe she would be perfect for a more relaxed family that is less schedule-and-rules-oriented than yours. It doesn’t really matter because whatever the case, it appears that she is not the right person to be working in your home. 

You can’t force her to change her personality. She’s not a disciplinarian and she prefers to be more relaxed about rules. She isn’t comfortable doling out any kind of punishments. You want someone stricter, who will enforce your house rules. You can try to get her to comply with your wishes, but I’m not sure you will ever be happy with her, and she may even end up quitting if she feels like she isn’t allowed to supervise your children in a way she feels is best.

This isn’t a criticism of you at all. It’s your house and your rules. But if you and the nanny have fundamentally different parenting styles, I think you are destined for constant displeasure with her. I know that I’m not a rules-oriented mom and I don’t do punishments, either, so your nanny might have been great at my house... but she’s probably not so great at your house.

 

I was thinking the same thing. It sounds like Caedmyn runs a tight ship, authoritarian style home. The nanny sounds like she takes a more relaxed approach to things. It would never occur to me that it wasn't okay to allow a child to pick something else to eat that is available. Don't want a sandwich & making your own nachos would be fine in my home. 

[caedmyn]

3 hours ago, Pen said:

If you are home I don’t understand why you can’t give a “stay in your seat” order yourself?  Or do they only obey if you are within striking distance? 

Maybe she could continue to Nanny the little ones during lunch and you could do group schooling with the biggers over lunch.  (Allowing DD13 to sleep later by taking pressure off breakfast time 🙂) 

 

I do.  Initially I was in a different room during lunch.  Now mostly I'm in the kitchen (making my own lunch, putting school stuff away) and she's in the dining room with them.  But if someone gets out of their seat, I expect her to say something FIRST since she's right there at the table, and that's not happening.

[caedmyn]

3 hours ago, Chris in VA said:

Depending on her state and area, she could do her own advertising (Glassdoor, Sittercity, even Monster). I think she will want a babysitter vs a nanny, though, as it is very part time with no benefits or paid leave. 

I advertised for this on Care.com, craigslist, and a local FB childcare group.  It was listed as part-time nanny/mother's helper.  I got zero responses from actual nannies.  I got several responses from moms with school-age kids looking for work while their kids were at school, several from 20-22 yo's who I didn't think were likely to have enough childcare experience/life experience, and from a few people who didn't actually meet the criteria (ie weren't available one week every month due to another job, wanted to bring their own child, didn't have their own transportation and wanted me to transport them to and from).  I could look to hire someone else and end up in the exact same situation.  How on earth could I guarantee that anyone I hire will actually be willing to be firm and follow through?  We did specifically ask her that and tell her that they would test her and she said she could handle it.

[Chris in VA]

8 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

I advertised for this on Care.com, craigslist, and a local FB childcare group.  It was listed as part-time nanny/mother's helper.  I got zero responses from actual nannies.  I got several responses from moms with school-age kids looking for work while their kids were at school, several from 20-22 yo's who I didn't think were likely to have enough childcare experience/life experience, and from a few people who didn't actually meet the criteria (ie weren't available one week every month due to another job, wanted to bring their own child, didn't have their own transportation and wanted me to transport them to and from).  I could look to hire someone else and end up in the exact same situation.  How on earth could I guarantee that anyone I hire will actually be willing to be firm and follow through?  We did specifically ask her that and tell her that they would test her and she said she could handle it.

Yes, that is true. I guess assess which is more likely, finding a better fit, or your current person changing her approach? When an employee doesn't fulfill the job, you may work with them to train a bit,but usually you let them go if they are not working out. It is a boundary thing. She is not your friend. 

Again, a nanny usually doesn't work part time (ime, having been one), at least not THAT part time. I might look at the ad you ran, if you do end up looking again, and make sure you are very specific and word the ad in a very professional way. There are nanny companies you could try--Mary Poppinz comes to mind--but most are for professional nannies, hired with contracts and benefits, only to take care of children. If you want a professional, advertise a professional job.

You seem to essentially want a clone of yourself, i.e., another Mom just like you, willing to teach and parent like you do. That sounds more snarky than I mean it to, but that is my perception. 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Chris in VA

[caedmyn]

45 minutes ago, QueenCat said:

 

I was thinking the same thing. It sounds like Caedmyn runs a tight ship, authoritarian style home. The nanny sounds like she takes a more relaxed approach to things. It would never occur to me that it wasn't okay to allow a child to pick something else to eat that is available. Don't want a sandwich & making your own nachos would be fine in my home. 

I don't think I run a particularly tight ship.  If I do something a particular way, it's generally for a reason, like I've tried doing it five different ways and only one really worked.  It gets really chaotic, and really messy, if 5 kids are all making their own lunch.  Also, it's virtually impossible to get them to sit at the table and eat if others are running around making their food, because I can't really supervise 5 kids going several different directions.  I dislike having chocolate milk stains on my carpet and crumbs everywhere, so I want them to eat at the table.  I know in my baby-sitting days, parents would tell me what they wanted the kids to have for lunch or dinner.  I always assumed that that is what they wanted all their kids to eat for lunch.  How is this any different?

In my book there's a difference between someone being relaxed about letting kids eat what they want at lunch, and telling a kid to do or not do something and then doing nothing if they don't, or letting a 3 yo run off while she plays with a 6 yo when she was specifically hired to watch the 3 yo at all time while we're doing school.

I do think she has a good bit of autonomy.  She can do whatever to keep the 3 yo, 1 yo, and 6 yo occupied, as long as whoever she has is staying downstairs so we can do school upstairs.  I might give her a direction two-three times a day at most, something like saying occasionally, "3 yo's been asking to do puzzles/play these games", or "6 yo has speech therapy today at 11:30.  Are you okay with staying here with 1 yo, 3 yo, and 8 yo?" or "They can have sandwiches for lunch."  I let a lot of things go that are not the way I would do them or prefer them done.  That doesn't mean I'm ok with letting absolutely everything go. 

[Pen]

6 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

I advertised for this on Care.com, craigslist, and a local FB childcare group.  It was listed as part-time nanny/mother's helper.  I got zero responses from actual nannies.  I got several responses from moms with school-age kids looking for work while their kids were at school, several from 20-22 yo's who I didn't think were likely to have enough childcare experience/life experience, and from a few people who didn't actually meet the criteria (ie weren't available one week every month due to another job, wanted to bring their own child, didn't have their own transportation and wanted me to transport them to and from).  I could look to hire someone else and end up in the exact same situation.  How on earth could I guarantee that anyone I hire will actually be willing to be firm and follow through?  We did specifically ask her that and tell her that they would test her and she said she could handle it.

 

I think you would need a specialist for special needs behavior issues.  Even then, I guess you couldn’t guarantee it, but it would be more likely.

alternatively you could try training the person (this one or another one) in exactly what you want done and exactly how

maybe something like a 22yo with camp counselor experience of getting a whole group of kids to behave would be a better fit...

[Pen]

3 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

I don't think I run a particularly tight ship.  If I do something a particular way, it's generally for a reason, like I've tried doing it five different ways and only one really worked.  It gets really chaotic, and really messy,

 

did you come home to a mess due to the nachos?

3 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

if 5 kids are all making their own lunch.  Also, it's virtually impossible to get them to sit at the table and eat if others are running around making their food, because I can't really supervise 5 kids going several different directions.  I dislike having chocolate milk stains on my carpet and crumbs everywhere, so I want them to eat at the table.

 

Did they cause chocolate milk stains and crumbs when she was supposed to supervise them? 

3 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

  I know in my baby-sitting days, parents would tell me what they wanted the kids to have for lunch or dinner.  I always assumed that that is what they wanted all their kids to eat for lunch.  How is this any different?

 

She isn’t you.  She doesn’t assume what you did in your babysitting days. 

You assume she’ll assume the exact same assumptions as you do.

 

3 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

In my book there's a difference between someone being relaxed about letting kids eat what they want at lunch, and telling a kid to do or not do something and then doing nothing if they don't, or letting a 3 yo run off while she plays with a 6 yo when she was specifically hired to watch the 3 yo at all time while we're doing school.

 

Sit down and talk with her. Pay for talk time. Maybe she could do what you want if you retell her.

Maybe she cannot. 

 

[Catwoman]

14 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

I do.  Initially I was in a different room during lunch.  Now mostly I'm in the kitchen (making my own lunch, putting school stuff away) and she's in the dining room with them.  But if someone gets out of their seat, I expect her to say something FIRST since she's right there at the table, and that's not happening.

 

But if you’re right there in the next room and see it happening, why is it such a problem for you to say something? 

As several of us have pointed out, it appears that your sitter’s priorities differ from yours. Maybe she doesn’t care if her own kids are incredibly obedient. Maybe she doesn’t have her own kids do chores. Maybe a tight schedule doesn’t matter to her. If those things are  important to you, you’re going to have to be very specific with her, but don’t be surprised if she ends up quitting because her parenting style doesn’t mesh with yours. That’s not a judgment on how you run your household versus how she runs hers; it’s just that it seems like she’s not fitting in well with the way you want things done.

The one thing you never mention is whether or not your kids like her. In my mind, that is the single most important thing, but all you seem concerned about is whether or not she is making your children obey rules. That wouldn’t be my priority at all. I would want the kids to be happy and safe with a sitter who is kind and caring. 

[hippiemamato3]

37 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

I do.  Initially I was in a different room during lunch.  Now mostly I'm in the kitchen (making my own lunch, putting school stuff away) and she's in the dining room with them.  But if someone gets out of their seat, I expect her to say something FIRST since she's right there at the table, and that's not happening.

Why can't the kids get out of their seats? I don't get this at all.

[Catwoman]

25 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

I don't think I run a particularly tight ship.  If I do something a particular way, it's generally for a reason, like I've tried doing it five different ways and only one really worked.  It gets really chaotic, and really messy, if 5 kids are all making their own lunch.  Also, it's virtually impossible to get them to sit at the table and eat if others are running around making their food, because I can't really supervise 5 kids going several different directions.  I dislike having chocolate milk stains on my carpet and crumbs everywhere, so I want them to eat at the table.  I know in my baby-sitting days, parents would tell me what they wanted the kids to have for lunch or dinner.  I always assumed that that is what they wanted all their kids to eat for lunch.  How is this any different?

In my book there's a difference between someone being relaxed about letting kids eat what they want at lunch, and telling a kid to do or not do something and then doing nothing if they don't, or letting a 3 yo run off while she plays with a 6 yo when she was specifically hired to watch the 3 yo at all time while we're doing school.

I do think she has a good bit of autonomy.  She can do whatever to keep the 3 yo, 1 yo, and 6 yo occupied, as long as whoever she has is staying downstairs so we can do school upstairs.  I might give her a direction two-three times a day at most, something like saying occasionally, "3 yo's been asking to do puzzles/play these games", or "6 yo has speech therapy today at 11:30.  Are you okay with staying here with 1 yo, 3 yo, and 8 yo?" or "They can have sandwiches for lunch."  I let a lot of things go that are not the way I would do them or prefer them done.  That doesn't mean I'm ok with letting absolutely everything go. 

 

I have read a lot of your threads, and my personal observation is that you don’t seem to realize just how regimented and authoritarian your parenting style is. You run an EXTREMELY tight ship! If your dd has to get up in the morning and clean windows before breakfast, that is definitely regimented and inflexible. And all of your kids seem to have similar responsibilities — I just mentioned your dd because of your recent thread about wanting her out of bed at a certain time and needing her to do daily chores exactly on your schedule.

As I have mentioned in other posts, that’s not a judgment on how you parent. Do I parent entirely differently? Yes, absolutely. But that’s not the point. The point is that you need to own it that you’re very concerned with things being done a certain way on a certain schedule, and you have a lot of household rules and regulations. And it’s important for you to acknowledge that because if you’re going to have someone working in your home, she needs to know exactly how you feel and exactly what you expect. Venting to us isn’t going to help if you’re being sweet to her when she’s working, but are secretly fuming that she isn’t instinctively doing things the way you want them done. 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Catwoman

[Pen]

 

23 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

The one thing you never mention is whether or not your kids like her. In my mind, that is the single most important thing, but all you seem concerned about is whether or not she is making your children obey rules. That wouldn’t be my priority at all. I would want the kids to be happy and safe with a sitter who is kind and caring. 

 

Good point!

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I think that nothing has changed from the last discussion on this.

She is a sweet woman who has no further qualifications than being a mother, herself. She can't be you. You're not going to like how she does things. You are ambivalent about the whole arrangement - half wanting her to do all tasks that you find stressful or unpleasant (and these wishes vary based on how you're feeling), and half wishing her gone.

Bringing in another adult who does not have very specific education, training and skills has not relieved your stress or workload enough to make this worthwhile. Since you can't find the right person through local advertising, you must consider the options that actually exist in your area. It sounds like those options are confined to schools.

I know that DH will not allow you to enroll your children in preschool or public school. I know that you are submitting to this arrangement for your own reasons. But the decision to not access the supported, qualified options that are available to you, does not mean that a mother's helper (or at least THIS mother's helper) will work. 

I would let her go while she's still your friend. It's just a mismatch; she hasn't done anything wrong. You weren't wrong to try it...but you've had over a month for this trial. It's just not going to solve your problem. Her willingness to keep trying, and your ambivalence about letting her go, won't change this.

As far as your not understanding why she can't be more Mary Poppins-like or intuitive about how to make your children behave, I do know what you mean. I worked as a babysitter, then I got some vocational training in early childhood development and daycare/preschool...I've had this authoritative but chipper rapport with children since I was a teenager, myself. But as I worked in preschools and daycares, I learned that it's sometimes just a knack or a personality type. Some people are like that. But far more often, the ability to work well with children - especially someone else's children - comes from *education.* This is magnified when the children have special needs or when the care environment is not strictly regulated. 

As a person with that personality type and with some education, I wouldn't take this job. If I had a home daycare, I would offer to mind your younger children there (with all my usual contracts in place). In my own setting, I could regulate the day, the expectations, the discipline, the relationships. Also, in that controlled environment that suited my own personality and training, I would know very swiftly whether your children had unique learning or behavioral needs that were beyond the scope of what I could provide. All this would be far more difficult to sort in your home setting, with older children doing other things but also moving in and out of my care, and with you there (but frustrated). I wouldn't do it for a single day.

Please reconsider preschool. DH can't make you homeschool. I don't know the consequences of disobeying him or whether you're able or willing to suffer those consequences, but legally he cannot force you to homeschool.

 

 

[happi duck]

I agree with others that you need an actual nanny...trained and probably through an agency.  In general, a much more formal arrangement.

If you want to stick with the less formal, mother's helper type arrangement then I think your plan needs to change.  I'd suggest that the MH watch only the one and three year olds, sort of like you've sent them to daycare just in your own home.  Six year olds in public school are given activities to do after they've finished their work.  You can keep the six year old with you.