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Scarlett

Amber Guyger

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I haven’t followed it much at all.  But I was surprised to hear they convicted her of murder.  I had not heard she was sexting her married partner. I think that must have played a big part in her being 1)charged with murder and 2) actually convicted.  

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She was charged because she violated department policy and killed a man in his own home. She was convicted because the jurors thought she committed the crime.

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I wasn't sure what they were going to do either. But seriously. She walked into a guy's apartment and shot him cold. I get that she was mistaken, and that she was scared. But she could have backed out of the apartment. She could have gotten back into the hallway. She's didn't need to shoot the guy. What happened to Mr. Jean is horrible, and had they let her get away with it with no charges- that would be truly terrifying imo. He was IN HIS APARTMENT!!

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This is also in the news here and I'm curious to see how this one will turn out. Shadier cops possibly, but bad cops, or incompetent cops need to be held accountable. We can support LEOs and still want accountability for crappy, dangerous officers. 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Former-HPD-officer-charged-with-murder-in-botched-14373874.php

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Also, she wasn't just sexting her married partner. She was sleeping with him at one point. I don't know all of the interworkings of criminal law and why that was admissible, when other things weren't. But I think if I were a juror it would go to show a level of disrespect for boundaries, and it would also definitely affect my opinion of her character. 

One of the things the defense used was the number of other residents who had mistakenly gone to other apartments. Apparently it was easy to do. However none of them managed to walk in and shoot someone. Whether it was manslaughter or murder I think is another question, and I'm not sure why they chose murder over manslaughter- I didn't hear enough to see what the different arguments were for each. 

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I was so relieved to hear she was convicted. 

I thought it was CRAZY that her lawyer tried to argue castle doctrine when *she was in his castle*

She’s guilty of the crime she was convicted of.  You can’t walk into someone else’s house and shoot them and argue “fear” as a defense.  Take a minute to figure out where the frack you even are before shooting.  The prosecution laid out a lot of inconsistencies in her story.  

She has to have the worst situational awareness ever.  

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7 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I wasn't sure what they were going to do either. But seriously. She walked into a guy's apartment and shot him cold. I get that she was mistaken, and that she was scared. But she could have backed out of the apartment. She could have gotten back into the hallway. She's didn't need to shoot the guy. What happened to Mr. Jean is horrible, and had they let her get away with it with no charges- that would be truly terrifying imo. He was IN HIS APARTMENT!!

Oh I agree she handled it wrong.  I am still surprised by the murder charge which implies intent I think.  It seems manslaughter or some other less serious charge would have been more appropriate.  And people keep saying ‘in his own home,!’  with yes is tragic...,but if she really thought she was in her apartment it was a big accident.  

I think when people carry guns they get weird about situations.  If I saw my apartment door ajar I would run and get help...not go on in.  

I think she was just a very unsympathetic defendant due to the sexting with a married man.  That she admitted full affair with apparently. 

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7 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

One of the things the defense used was the number of other residents who had mistakenly gone to other apartments. Apparently it was easy to do. However none of them managed to walk in and shoot someone. Whether it was manslaughter or murder I think is another question, and I'm not sure why they chose murder over manslaughter- I didn't hear enough to see what the different arguments were for each. 

My thing about this is, if she knew others had walked in to the wrong apartment, when she walked in and the furniture was different and the decor and everything, why did she grab for her gun rather than verify it was hers and some random guy had moved all her furniture and everything else out and his in while she was away. Are there not apartment numbers on the doors? I am glad she was convicted. I do not buy that she thought she was in her own apartment. I think it may even have been premeditated. Maybe.

Edited by Janeway
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Accidental deaths caused by a person are still homicides. The jury found that this homicide was intentional because she admitted on the stand that she shot him with the intention of killing him. This article further explains that her sexts were introduced to explain why she was so distracted as she walked up to the door, much like texting and driving.  She was unsympathetic for a variety of reasons including not rendering aid to the man she shot. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/02/amber-guyger-offensive-texts-botham-jean-murder/%3foutputType=amp

Edited by Sneezyone
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I heard this morning that they were definitely trying to imply (if not prove) racism due to texts and maybe posts on social media?

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1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

 but if she really thought she was in her apartment it was a big accident.  

It was not a big accident. Even if she thought it was her apartment, she opened the door and saw him sitting on the sofa. All she had to do was walk away and call for backup. She is a trained police officer and she knows this. It doesn't matter if it actually was her apartment and he actually was an intruder, you can't give people the death penalty on the spot for breaking and entering. 

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1 minute ago, katilac said:

 

It was not a big accident. Even if she thought it was her apartment, she opened the door and saw him sitting on the sofa. All she had to do was walk away and call for backup. She is a trained police officer and she knows this. It doesn't matter if it actually was her apartment and he actually was an intruder, you can't give people the death penalty on the spot for breaking and entering. 

Well, true.   I Am still surprised at the murder charge.  Apparently the sentence could be as little as 5 years and as much as 99.....the court system just blows my mind.  

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Even leaving aside other factors, it seems to me that she has a fundamental obligation to ascertain *where she is* before reacting with lethal force.  I have twice walked in to my home to find people there I didn’t expect to see.  This happens sometimes in densely populated areas with apartments and identical townhouses and tract housing.  There are so many steps between WTF are you doing here and “I will now kill you”.  

I have a hard time thinking that step one on thinking she was finding a white woman in her apartment would have been “kill her”.

Edited by LucyStoner
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2 minutes ago, Janeway said:

Are there not apartment numbers on the doors? 

There are illuminated numbers on each apartment, and the guy had a red welcome mat. 

1 minute ago, RootAnn said:

I heard this morning that they were definitely trying to imply (if not prove) racism due to texts and maybe posts on social media?

Yes, they implied both racism and an attitude of violence. 

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6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Oh I agree she handled it wrong.  I am still surprised by the murder charge which implies intent I think.  It seems manslaughter or some other less serious charge would have been more appropriate.  And people keep saying ‘in his own home,!’  with yes is tragic...,but if she really thought she was in her apartment it was a big accident.  

I think when people carry guns they get weird about situations.  If I saw my apartment door ajar I would run and get help...not go on in.  

I think she was just a very unsympathetic defendant due to the sexting with a married man.  That she admitted full affair with apparently. 

Here's another thing, and full disclosure, I have a CHL and so does dh. On top of everything else she did, there is no way I would start shooting in an apartment. Period. And I'm not trained as a cop so you'd think she'd be one to know that. The walls are thin. How reckless is that?!! The people living around are lucky they weren't shot too! 

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1 minute ago, katilac said:

There are illuminated numbers on each apartment, and the guy had a red welcome mat. 

Yes, they implied both racism and an attitude of violence. 


Yep. They introduced her disciplinary record on the police force and her text messages for the jury to consider when rendering a sentence.

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In some of the texts, she and the other officer (the one she was with) are complaining about working the MLK parade. He says, "Damn! I was at this area with five different black officers! Not racist but damn" and she replies, "not racist but just have a different way of working and it shows." 

On social media, she posted memes about shooting first. 

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6 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I heard this morning that they were definitely trying to imply (if not prove) racism due to texts and maybe posts on social media?

I just saw that this morning. Her group texts and Pinterst posts came out for sentencing. I don't understand why they didn't come out in the trial. I guess it doesn't matter since they got the conviction, but I don't understand why they are just now bringing those out, since they are being allowed to show them. 

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Just now, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I just saw that this morning. Her group texts and Pinterst posts came out for sentencing. I don't understand why they didn't come out in the trial. I guess it doesn't matter since they got the conviction, but I don't understand why they are just now bringing those out, since they are being allowed to show them. 

 Too prejudicial.

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1 minute ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I just saw that this morning. Her group texts and Pinterst posts came out for sentencing. I don't understand why they didn't come out in the trial. I guess it doesn't matter since they got the conviction, but I don't understand why they are just now bringing those out, since they are being allowed to show them. 

There is often evidence that the judge won't allow in for purposes of conviction but will allow in the sentencing phase. They may have made the decision themselves in order to not give an inch for appeal (could have been seen as prejudicial and not directly related to the charge). 

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All I can think of is his poor family.  I’m glad they got this verdict but what a poor return for the loss of a son.  Nothing the justice system has to offer is enough for what they have lost.  

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9 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

She's going to appeal anyway, but I see what y'all are saying. 

 

Anything that makes it harder for her to prevail on appeal is good by me.  I don’t care how pro-police someone is.  If we don’t draw the line here- police officers who are trained in situational awareness go into someone else’s home while not on duty and kill them immediately- we truly can’t draw the line anywhere on this issue.  

During her testimony she sobbed that it wasn’t a hate thing.  Maybe accept that it’s not a random thing either lady.  There’s a reason some parents have more reason to fear this happening to their kids than other parents do.  There’s a reason I worry about this as it pertains to my two black nephews but not really at all with respect to my white sons.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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She also claimed that he was moving toward her and she feared for her life. If that's the case, she had plenty of opportunity to retreat, seek safety, and call for help. We are talking about a police officer (off-duty or not) who is trained to handle these specific situations, not your average citizen. The prosecution said forensic evidence showed the victim was getting up off his sofa or bending down when she shot him. It's unclear if she even attempted to render aid after shooting him. Apparently she had time to text her partner about it (if I read correctly). Everything is so wrong with this whole scenario. She didn't just make one "mistake." She made bad decision after bad decision. Again, she is trained in the use of her weapon and how to handle break-ins and other potentially dangerous encounters. She ignored it all. And an innocent man minding his own business in his own castle was killed. I'm not surprised she was found guilty of murder.

Edited by Valley Girl
ETA: As Lucy said above, even if you're generally pro-police (and I usually am), the line that was crossed here seems unambiguous.
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Her texts are despicable...and so is she.   I’m glad she got convicted.   Didn’t she say that the apt door was ajar?  If that’s the case, wouldn’t the response be to call for back up and then enter the apt with other officers?   In that time, she would’ve realized it wasn’t even her apartment probably.  What she did doesn’t sound like normal police procedure.   

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I think she was a ticking time bomb, tbh.  If it hadn’t been this man, it would’ve been another.   I feel horribly for his mama.   I’d lose it if my son was killed, but like this??  I just can’t imagine the rage and grief I’d feel.  

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Had some guy accidentally gone into the wrong apartment- her apartment-and she was in there, and then she shot him, I think that could have arguably been a different situation. But this one has just been so crazy from the start. 

I honestly kept waiting to hear she was drunk. Because their apartments were set up quite differently- same floor plan, but that's about it. I still don't understand how you make that mistake starting with the floor mat. If you're texting youre looking down at your phone right? How did she not notice a blazing red doormat. 

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22 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Her texts are despicable...and so is she.   I’m glad she got convicted.   Didn’t she say that the apt door was ajar?  If that’s the case, wouldn’t the response be to call for back up and then enter the apt with other officers?   In that time, she would’ve realized it wasn’t even her apartment probably.  What she did doesn’t sound like normal police procedure.   

 

Yep.  If I lived alone and I came home to an open door, my first instinct, after trying to remember if I’d forgotten something like a maintenance appointment, would be to call the police and not enter the apartment.  In fact, I did call the police when I came home when I was 20 and my front door was unlocked and I could see through the kitchen that the back door was ajar.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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1 minute ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Had some guy accidentally gone into the wrong apartment- her apartment-and she was in there, and then she shot him, I think that could have arguably been a different situation. But this one has just been so crazy from the start. 

I honestly kept waiting to hear she was drunk. Because their apartments were set up quite differently- same floor plan, but that's about it. I still don't understand how you make that mistake starting with the floor mat. If you're texting youre looking down at your phone right? How did she not notice a blazing red doormat. 

If that had happened, I think you're right. Totally different ballgame. In the real situation, SHE was the intruder.

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So glad she was convicted.  I think justice has prevailed.  I hope she's away for a long time.  She took a life in cold blood.  

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I was surprised she was convicted because it's rare to convict cops.  But it was the right thing.  Even if she HAD been in her apartment, a crazy guy who broke in and is watching TV and eating ice cream on your couch does not deserve to die. And even cops are taught to never pull a gun unless you've already ascertained that someone is going to die - you, an innocent person, or the criminal.

I doubt she'll live long in prison though.

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51 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Here's another thing, and full disclosure, I have a CHL and so does dh. On top of everything else she did, there is no way I would start shooting in an apartment. Period. And I'm not trained as a cop so you'd think she'd be one to know that. The walls are thin. How reckless is that?!! The people living around are lucky they weren't shot too! 

Yeah. In an apartment there is almost no ‘safe direction’ at all, not even out the windows if there are cars parked below or a building across the parking lot.  Big no.

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11 minutes ago, Katy said:

I was surprised she was convicted because it's rare to convict cops.  But it was the right thing.  Even if she HAD been in her apartment, a crazy guy who broke in and is watching TV and eating ice cream on your couch does not deserve to die. And even cops are taught to never pull a gun unless you've already ascertained that someone is going to die - you, an innocent person, or the criminal.

 

I think the big difference was that she wasn’t on duty.  This wasn’t an overzealous arrest or a situation where she was carrying out any police duties.  Also, while it shouldn’t matter, it probably didn’t help her case that the young man she shot, an accountant at PWC, was literally a choir boy with an unimpeachable record.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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26 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

 

I think the big difference was that she wasn’t on duty.  This wasn’t an overzealous arrest or a situation where she was carrying out any police duties.  Also, while it shouldn’t matter, it probably didn’t help her case that the young man she shot, an accountant at PWC, was literally a choir boy with an unimpeachable record.  

 

Yeah, but the training to not pull a gun unless someone is going to die still holds.  I mean I guess I'm just guessing from a child of a Florida cop perspective, maybe Texas is totally different.  They definitely handle police involved shootings very differently.

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1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Oh I agree she handled it wrong.  I am still surprised by the murder charge which implies intent I think.  It seems manslaughter or some other less serious charge would have been more appropriate.  And people keep saying ‘in his own home,!’  with yes is tragic...,but if she really thought she was in her apartment it was a big accident.  

I think when people carry guns they get weird about situations.  If I saw my apartment door ajar I would run and get help...not go on in.  

I think she was just a very unsympathetic defendant due to the sexting with a married man.  That she admitted full affair with apparently. 

FWIW legally "intent" can form in a moment just before the act.

There wasn't a great case for manslaughter.  She entered his home and had no valid reason to shoot him.

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46 minutes ago, Katy said:

I was surprised she was convicted because it's rare to convict cops.  But it was the right thing.  Even if she HAD been in her apartment, a crazy guy who broke in and is watching TV and eating ice cream on your couch does not deserve to die. And even cops are taught to never pull a gun unless you've already ascertained that someone is going to die - you, an innocent person, or the criminal.

I doubt she'll live long in prison though.

Off-duty cops get convicted fairly often.  Most only make the news briefly.

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Even the most pro-police cops I know were hoping for a conviction on this one.  There’s just so many levels of wrong.  

On entering the wrong apartment though...once, after a really busy 24 hour shift, I stopped at the grocery store on the way home.  After finishing my shopping I got in my car and it wouldn’t start. I pressed the buttons, used the magnetic key, nothing. I burst into exhausted tears and called AAA for a tow.

It took 20 minutes for me to realize there were no car seats, my work radio and badge weren’t in the cup holders, and there was a briefcase that wasn’t mine on the front seat.

Tunnel vision happens, but shooting someone should never be the first thing. Retreating and calling 911 was appropriate.

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18 minutes ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

On entering the wrong apartment though...once, after a really busy 24 hour shift, I stopped at the grocery store on the way home.  After finishing my shopping I got in my car and it wouldn’t start. I pressed the buttons, used the magnetic key, nothing. I burst into exhausted tears and called AAA for a tow.

It took 20 minutes for me to realize there were no car seats, my work radio and badge weren’t in the cup holders, and there was a briefcase that wasn’t mine on the front seat.

 

I totally see how it could happen to walk into the wrong apartment.  I’ve not walked into a different apartments but I have gone to the wrong car and stuff like that.  I once showed up at work 3 hours early because after my fitness boot camp class, I had gotten on the freeway southbound and just autopiloted my way to work , all the while wondering why there was so little traffic.  😳 I’ve walked into my home and found people I wasn’t expecting to see.  

I think people understand that mistakes happen, but the first mistake doesn’t mitigate the reactive and crappy decision making after that initial mistake.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Also, she wasn't just sexting her married partner. She was sleeping with him at one point. I don't know all of the interworkings of criminal law and why that was admissible, when other things weren't. But I think if I were a juror it would go to show a level of disrespect for boundaries, and it would also definitely affect my opinion of her character. 

One of the things the defense used was the number of other residents who had mistakenly gone to other apartments. Apparently it was easy to do. However none of them managed to walk in and shoot someone. Whether it was manslaughter or murder I think is another question, and I'm not sure why they chose murder over manslaughter- I didn't hear enough to see what the different arguments were for each. 

 

I have made an effort to set matters of integrity aside from the actual events of the incident - that has been admittedly difficult. 

Several specific elements allow me to be satisfied with the verdict. First, she is a trained LEO, and her response to a potential suspect was inappropriate. She has a high degree of training on how to properly wield a weapon under stressful circumstances, as a LEO should operate within the public’s trust, and should be held to a high standard. If indeed she believed it to be her apartment with appeared to have had the door opened by an intruder, why didn’t she call it in and wait for backup? Forensics indicate that based on the bullet’s trajectory, the victim was sitting down when he was shot. 

Afterwards, throughout the seven minute recorded 911 call, she could be heard saying that she was “done,” meaning she was going to lose her job. There was no apparent attempt to render aid or comfort to the victim, who could be heard moaning in the background.  

Those two things are enough, in my mind, for a serious conviction. Trying to imagine the logistics of how she entered the wrong apartment (seriously, parking the wrong floor, approaching the wrong door with a wrong colored doormat), I cannot fathom how this situation proceeded through its tragic end. She abandoned her situational awareness training and was too quick on the trigger. 

For the record, I also believe her moral character stinks, but even an adulterer could have avoided killing a man in his own home. How absolutely terrifying, this invasion of sanctuary. 

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19 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

 

I totally see how it could happen to walk into the wrong apartment.  I’ve not walked into a different apartments but I have gone to the wrong car and stuff like that.  I once showed up at work 3 hours early because after my fitness boot camp class, I had gotten on the freeway southbound and just autopiloted my way to work , all the while wondering why there was so little traffic.  😳 I’ve walked into my home and found people I wasn’t expecting to see.  

I think people understand that mistakes happen, but the first mistake doesn’t mitigate the reactive and crappy decision making after that initial mistake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes - a mistake can happen. But this was a series of mistakes, like you say, culminating in tragedy. 

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2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Oh I agree she handled it wrong.  I am still surprised by the murder charge which implies intent I think.  It seems manslaughter or some other less serious charge would have been more appropriate.  And people keep saying ‘in his own home,!’  with yes is tragic...,but if she really thought she was in her apartment it was a big accident.  

I think when people carry guns they get weird about situations.  If I saw my apartment door ajar I would run and get help...not go on in.  

I think she was just a very unsympathetic defendant due to the sexting with a married man.  That she admitted full affair with apparently. 

 

A news story I heard yesterday indicated that it’s really just semantics of the laws in Texas. Apparently there’s a difference between Murder and Capital Murder - I cant explain it all but the charge she was convicted under does not mean she committed premeditated murder - something more along the lines of wreckless homicide. 

Maybe someone on board actually knows more about this and will explain it for us. Upon hearing that news item yesterday, I was convinced that she was charged and convicted appropriately. 

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4 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

I have made an effort to set matters of integrity aside from the actual events of the incident - that has been admittedly difficult. 

Several specific elements allow me to be satisfied with the verdict. First, she is a trained LEO, and her response to a potential suspect was inappropriate. She has a high degree of training on how to properly wield a weapon under stressful circumstances, as a LEO should operate within the public’s trust, and should be held to a high standard. If indeed she believed it to be her apartment with appeared to have had the door opened by an intruder, why didn’t she call it in and wait for backup? Forensics indicate that based on the bullet’s trajectory, the victim was sitting down when he was shot. 

Afterwards, throughout the seven minute recorded 911 call, she could be heard saying that she was “done,” meaning she was going to lose her job. There was no apparent attempt to render aid or comfort to the victim, who could be heard moaning in the background.  

Those two things are enough, in my mind, for a serious conviction. Trying to imagine the logistics of how she entered the wrong apartment (seriously, parking the wrong floor, approaching the wrong door with a wrong colored doormat), I cannot fathom how this situation proceeded through its tragic end. She abandoned her situational awareness training and was too quick on the trigger. 

For the record, I also believe her moral character stinks, but even an adulterer could have avoided killing a man in his own home. How absolutely terrifying, this invasion of sanctuary. 

I agree, but had I been on that jury- it would have mattered to me. If you shoot an unarmed man, in his own home, and want me to have belief in your judgement and word that you thought you were honestly in danger in order to be reduced of responsibility in some way..... well, your character better be pretty darn near impeachable as far as that sort of thing. And currently and knowingly cavorting with a married co-worker would have knocked her out of that standing for sure. It shows deception, lack of judgement, and lack of boundaries to me, and just added to a person who already was obviously reckless. 

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1 minute ago, Seasider too said:

 

A news story I heard yesterday indicated that it’s really just semantics of the laws in Texas. Apparently there’s a difference between Murder and Capital Murder - I cant explain it all but the charge she was convicted under does not mean she committed premeditated murder - something more along the lines of wreckless homicide. 

Maybe someone on board actually knows more about this and will explain it for us. Upon hearing that news item yesterday, I was convinced that she was charged and convicted appropriately. 

There's a huge difference between murder and capital murder here. For starters, one is eligible for the death penalty and the other is not. 

Quote

Texas does not recognize degrees of murder, such as first and second degree murder as most people are familiar with from television programs. The only difference between capital murder and murder in Texas is the punishment imposed for each. Capital murder is punished with either a life sentence without parole or the death penalty, while murder is punished with a prison term of 5 to 99 years or life imprisonment.

 

https://www.johntfloyd.com/what-makes-murder-capital-in-texas/

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2 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I just saw that this morning. Her group texts and Pinterst posts came out for sentencing. I don't understand why they didn't come out in the trial. I guess it doesn't matter since they got the conviction, but I don't understand why they are just now bringing those out, since they are being allowed to show them. 

 

Probably along the same lines that victim family impact statements are allowed - it may attest to the potential for rehabilitation? (Or lack thereof...)

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Qualifications for Capital Murder in TX- https://www.johntfloyd.com/what-makes-murder-capital-in-texas/

Quote

Capital Murder in Texas

 

Nine different kinds of homicide qualify as capital murder in Texas:

 

  • The victim is a peace officer or fireman acting under their lawful duty at the time of the offense;
  • The defendant intentionally commits the murder during the commission or attempted commission of a kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, arson, obstruction or retaliation, or terroristic threat;
  • The defendant is paid to commit the murder or pays someone else to commit the murder;
  • The murder occurs during an escape from a penal institution;
  • An inmate, while incarcerated murders another A) who is an employee in prison operation, or B) with the intent to establish, maintain, or participate in a combination or in the profits of a combination;
  • An inmate, while incarcerated for either capital murder or murder, A) kills another, or B) an inmate serving a life sentence or a term of 99 years for kidnapping, assaultive offenses, or aggravated;
  • The defendant murders more than one person A) during the same criminal transaction, or B) during different criminal transactions but the murders are committed pursuant to the same scheme or course of conduct;
  • The defendant murders a child under six years of age; or
  • The defendant murders another person in retaliation for or on account of the service or status of the other person as a judge or justice.

To me the bigger question was between manslaughter and murder. 

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3 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Also, she wasn't just sexting her married partner. She was sleeping with him at one point. I don't know all of the interworkings of criminal law and why that was admissible, when other things weren't. But I think if I were a juror it would go to show a level of disrespect for boundaries, and it would also definitely affect my opinion of her character. 

The reason the information that she was sexting her boyfriend right before the murder was allowed was because it contradicted her claim that she was so totally exhausted after working 14 hours that she was unable to perceive all the signs indicating she was on the wrong floor, in front of the wrong door (with a red doormat), and in the wrong apartment. The prosecution argued that the fact she was inviting her boyfriend to come to her apartment for sex indicated that she wasn't as exhausted as she claimed.

However, I think a lot of jurors probably felt the way you do, and I suspect that will be one of the grounds used in the appeal her lawyers will almost certainly file. 

As an aside, a lot of people were upset that the judge advised the jury that the Castle Doctrine would actually apply in this case if she genuinely believed she was in her own apartment, but I think it was smart to do that because it means she can't use it as grounds for appeal.

Edited by Corraleno
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56 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

To me the bigger question was between manslaughter and murder. 

 

It sounds like in order for it to have been manslaughter her actions would need to be reckless and lacking in intent to kill him.  In the trial the prosecution made a lot of her statement that when she shot him she was intending to kill him.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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19 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The reason the information that she was sexting her boyfriend right before the murder was allowed was because it contradicted her claim that she was so totally exhausted after working 14 hours that she was unable to perceive all the signs indicating she was on the wrong floor, in front of the wrong door (with a red doormat), and in the wrong apartment. The prosecution argued that the fact she was inviting her boyfriend to come to her apartment for sex indicated that she wasn't as exhausted as she claimed.

However, I think a lot of jurors probably felt the way you do, and I suspect that will be one of the grounds used in the appeal her lawyers will almost certainly file. 

As an aside, a lot of people were upset that the judge advised the jury that the Castle Doctrine would actually apply in this case if she genuinely believed she was in her own apartment, but I think it was smart to do that because it means she can't use it as grounds for appeal.

Yes, this.  It just highlights that she was lying to cover herself.  Because she wasn’t planning to crash from exhaustion when she got home.  There were a lot of inconsistencies in her story.  She said he was coming at her, he apparently was not.  She said he failed to follow her orders but my her own admission she shot him in a matter of seconds.  She said he was sitting in the dark but his family said he didn’t sit in the dark to watch TV.  That struck me because I also don’t like to sit in the dark and will always turn on the lights in room or at minimum 1 lamp near where I am sitting.  After she had time to concoct a story, she said she was afraid he had a gun but during the 911 call she didn’t say that.  She said the door was ajar but the residents say the doors close automatically.  

 

 

 

Edited by LucyStoner
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1 hour ago, LucyStoner said:

Yes, this.  It just highlights that she was lying to cover herself.  Because she wasn’t planning to crash from exhaustion when she got home.  There were a lot of inconsistencies in her story.  She said he was coming at her, he apparently was not.  She said he failed to follow her orders but my her own admission she shot him in a matter of seconds.  She said he was sitting in the dark but his family said he didn’t sit in the dark to watch TV.  That struck me because I also don’t like to sit in the dark and will always turn on the lights in room or at minimum 1 lamp near where I am sitting.  After she had time to concoct a story, she said she was afraid he had a gun but during the 911 call she didn’t say that.  She said the door was ajar but the residents say the doors close automatically.  

 

 

 

From the testimony I read, the Tx Ranger investigation found the door was ajar because a screw in the plate was in too far, causing it to bow and the door to not always catch closed and lock. Sounded like it was a known problem iirc. I am  curious if there will be a lawsuit against the complex  at some point due to that. If the door had shut properly it’s likely none of this would have happened. I guess depends on if a request had been put into fix it and neglected or not? 

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