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1 minute ago, StellaM said:

 

Do you think abuse is caused by that interplay ?

No.

ETA: I think pairing up happens when a dominant person chooses an easy target. Easy targets get matched up with abusers often. I know because I have been one. 

Edited by Quill
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9 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Oh yeah, I know that! I haven't talked to another man in the kids' dad's presence for 15 years, because that was a way of managing his pathological and abusive jealousy.  It managed the being kept up till all hours being told to confess to affairs I hadn't had, so I got more sleep,  but the management strategy itself was just a different form of harm. You can choose what kind of abuse you get, kind of, sure. 

Basically, people should stop telling people being abused handy hints for fixing 'their part of it' and start holding abusers accountable 100% for their abuse.

 

Good Lord, Stella. I'm so sorry for what you've experienced. You and Heart and everybody else dealing with this kind of situation.

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11 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Anything can escalate an abuser - the wrong tone, crying, not crying, saying something back, not saying anything, taking the kids outside, doing the washing up, not sweeping, taking a phone call, working, not working,  watching TV, working out, going out, staying in. Part of abuse is being driven crazy by trying to predict what will escalate and what will deescalate the abuser.

Part of recovery is stepping away from that compulsive attempt to predict, and to change one's response and behaviour in order to control the abuse. You can't. 

You can, at best, react in ways that make some types of abuse less likely, at the cost of experiencing other types of abuse. 

I know this is true. I have lived that experience. 

Your last line is what I have been saying, although I do not think “other types” of abuse will definitely happen in every case. There is no way of knowing what will happen in any case. I do think some responses are wiser than others, especially if one is planning a break if/when it becomes necessary. 

I still think the best thread we ever had on here was called something like, “Ladies, Protect Yourselves!” And it was about how to shore up vulnerable spots to make it less likely you would become destitute or whatever. I have never been able to find that thread again and subsequent attempts to re-create that thread have not gone well at all. 

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7 minutes ago, Quill said:

I know this is true. I have lived that experience. 

Your last line is what I have been saying, although I do not think “other types” of abuse will definitely happen in every case. There is no way of knowing what will happen in any case. I do think some responses are wiser than others, especially if one is planning a break if/when it becomes necessary. 

I still think the best thread we ever had on here was called something like, “Ladies, Protect Yourselves!” And it was about how to shore up vulnerable spots to make it less likely you would become destitute or whatever. I have never been able to find that thread again and subsequent attempts to re-create that thread have not gone well at all. 

 

It does, because, like Stella was saying, you end up abusing yourself for them. 

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40 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Anything can escalate an abuser - the wrong tone, crying, not crying, saying something back, not saying anything, taking the kids outside, doing the washing up, not sweeping, taking a phone call, working, not working,  watching TV, working out, going out, staying in. Part of abuse is being driven crazy by trying to predict what will escalate and what will deescalate the abuser.

Part of recovery is stepping away from that compulsive attempt to predict, and to change one's response and behaviour in order to control the abuse. You can't. 

You can, at best, react in ways that make some types of abuse less likely, at the cost of experiencing other types of abuse. 

So much this!! 

Like one day he said you can use the treadmill in my library. I said but you say you don’t like that because you have homework and the kids are here. He said it’s ok. So I started using it and watching tv with ds. I even said to ds at one point go ask dad if dd is bugging him. She had walked around the office/library. Ds didn’t report any issue so we finished our show. Then Dh came in grumpy saying I messed up his school time and we needed to go. I was like “you know, I tried to ask.” Now I don’t even bother! I go to the fitness center. 

You guys remember that time I was shared the link Peeling Bananas in Secret? It was a long read and talked about the way this woman interacted with her kid (toddler) based on his reaction to bananas on the given day. It got ridiculous. The story told of her interactions with her spouse and children and how he (the Dh) was so angry. It took at least six months of enforcing boundaries and maybe he attended a program but he became a decent spouse eventually. When I read it I was like six months to see results? Ugh. 

My interaction with my inlaws and their washing machine had me internally saying, “I’m peeling bananas in secret!!” I changed all the settings to what his parents might approve on the washing machine before I left. Because that’s how ridiculous my relationship with him and his family is. I blocked his sister on Facebook when she called me a hypochondriac on my page. Well this weekend I texted her (for dd’s sake) asking what time she was bringing over her kids.* My text was never acknowledged and I told Dh to text her. I don’t know if she blocked my number. He got a response and I left the house before her family came over and Dh gave her a birthday gift. 

*I stated in the text that dd wanted to know 

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14 minutes ago, StellaM said:

https://flyingfreenow.com/emotional-abuse-targets-angry/

This is Christian, but I think it helped me get what you, @Quill, were trying to say, but she also really describes things, with reference to Dance of Anger, really well, in a way I could hear. Probably because she honors the anger felt by those who have been emotionally abused.

heart, you might like it because it speaks to a religious pov. 

I read it, thanks. And I read The Dance of Anger. 

I think I’ve cycled through all the emotions over the years. Anger was heightened more at other times. I was having suicidal thoughts before I saw the psychiatrist. I’m not saying that’s all regarding Dh but feelings of helplessness etc. He kept saying he had a 5 year plan but then every time he got promoted he started a new 5 yr plan. I felt like I was stuck here forever. I was bitter. But now I’m trying to focus more on the homeschool events, friendships I’ve built, etc. I’m much better. 

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2 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

How do you finesse abuse, Quill ? Please tell me.

Cos I still live with my abuser, and I'd like to know. 

Should I drag him to the doctor ? Done and done.

Should I force him to receive mental health care ? Tried that one over about, oh, 15 years ?

This is all so damaging. Yes, sometimes women can't leave. For a lot of reasons - financial, custody related, because leaving is the time they are most likely to get killed. The ONLY good advice in that situation is the advice Soror gave upthread. Draw your boundaries tight. Disengage from the abuser. Get your ducks (however slowly) in a row. 

This thread is so harmful. If I had read this thread even 5 years ago, it would have broken me, with it's assumptions that 'two sides, it's not physical, you do it too, maybe you just don't care enough, why aren't you a good wife/partner, I think you're exaggerating, well, you're better off because you can control yourself, he's the one who is suffering' which are all - co-incidentally or not - things that come out of the mouth of abusers constantly.

 

I don't think anyone is saying there is an excuse that makes abuse okay, or that makes her at fault. At least I'm not saying that. I think people were saying there are ways she can be safer in this time of transition, and to try to keep things low key to avoid danger if at all possible. That's not a long term strategy, and it still may not work temporarily. Also, I think the bit about mental health was a side tangent that started before it became apparent all that was going on. And then continued - but I will say that I did divorce my ex despite his mental illness that caused him to be an unfit partner. I encouraged him to get help, he refused to continue doing that work, and it was very sad but I had to leave. Because his illness might explain his behavior, but it didn't make it any less damaging to me. Letting him destroy me and my child's lives wasn't going to make him any healthier, it was just going to hurt us. I could on the one hand say "this behavior is because of XYZ, and therapy/meds/etc could help change the behavior" and also say, "doing that work is your responsibility, I'm not required to stay here and be hurt". 

Obviously, HL already tried getting her husband to seek help, and he refused. Suggesting help was a good thing to do, but she and every other spouse have no way to force it, and it isn't their job to fix the abuser. It is their job to protect their children and themselves. Both are true. 

1 hour ago, StellaM said:

 

there is an interplay in every relationship. He does X, I do Y. He says A, I respond with B. There are ways this can go that don’t help; sometimes there are ways it does help. 

To me, this suggests that if the abused person doesn't do Y or doesn't respond with B, she can make the abuse stop. I think that's naive.

And it's not advice I would give. Maybe it's good advice for rocky marriages which are non-abusive. Abuse isn't, however, just a rocky marriage.

Again, I think it was supposed to be about staying as safe as possible right now? Maybe I'm wrong. 

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22 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

I just think the framing is out of whack. (And some posters have explicitly suggested she is at fault, unduly influenced by others with an agenda, hasn't tried hard enough to think about what his problems are, is over-reacting etc)

Heart 'should' do the things that people have suggested (if she wants to) because they are positive ways for her to look after herself, and by extension, the kids. 

Not because there's some correlation there that will make her dh less likely to engage in abusive behaviours.  Washing his laundry isn't going to stop him accusing her of having Munchausen's. Heart could do everything 'right' and she could still wake up one day to another hole in the wall, kwim ? 

I do think the suggestions that she is careful, slow and quiet about her plans is a good, safety focused suggestion.

But it won't guarantee any kind of change in him. I feel like over-focus on what she can do to get him to change is part of an abusive dynamic itself. 

I don't know, maybe I'm not explaining  myself very well or maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway, I appreciate you saying outright that it's sad but OK to place the responsibility for the abuser's mental health on himself.

Oh, I don't think anything she can do will change him. You can't change another person. Just that now isn't maybe the time to start arguing back or whatever. Just keep on, do her thing, avoid him when possible, etc. 

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I heard this one attorney is a shark and offers free consults but her actual fees are $$$. I don’t have a quote yet. 

The place that is pro bono or cheap (university of law) is nearly 2 hrs. away so likely won’t help. I thought it was in Jackson but it says Oxford. 

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16 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I heard this one attorney is a shark and offers free consults but her actual fees are $$$. I don’t have a quote yet. 

 

He can't use her if you've had a consultation with her, I believe.

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23 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I heard this one attorney is a shark and offers free consults but her actual fees are $$$. I don’t have a quote yet. 

The place that is pro bono or cheap (university of law) is nearly 2 hrs. away so likely won’t help. I thought it was in Jackson but it says Oxford. 

 

Go see the shark for the free consult.  Could be useful.  

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2 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

He can't use her if you've had a consultation with her, I believe.

Good advice, but also dependent on the size of the town. Most US state legal codes of ethics for attorneys require that the party actually have been a client, or a former client....not just a consult (even if privy to details). Some attorneys will conflict people out based on their own moral code after a consult, but in most smaller locals, even lawyers need to pay the bills and won't conflict people out after a consult.   

Generally, you want the shark, even if you have to borrow money from family and sell your plasma for years to pay back your family.  

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7 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

He can't use her if you've had a consultation with her, I believe.

 

 

Not necessarily true.  @heartlikealion may not be considered to be a “client” unless there’s been a legal agreement for representation signed between the lawyer and her.   She may be able to get some one else in her state to answer that, like the friend working in law office. 

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1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Generally, you want the shark, even if you have to borrow money from family and sell your plasma for years to pay back your family.  

 

 If it’s a good shark, sharing on her behalf, she likely wants shark.  

Occasionally sharks are client biters. Or so sharkey that they turn judges against them . One doesn’t want one of those. 

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1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

 

 If it’s a good shark, sharing on her behalf, she likely wants shark.  

Occasionally sharks are client biters. Or so sharkey that they turn judges against them . One doesn’t want one of those. 

I was looking at her based on recommendations from other women that hired her. 

Edited by heartlikealion
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I’d set up the free consult.  

Organize what you’re going to say to get the most from it you can.   Free consults aren’t usually all that long.

 

If she can offer excellent guidance, and help you have a legally sound plan, and someone in your corner, a paid visit with shark —beyond even the free consult —also may help a lot with your anxiety and depression.

 

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3 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I’m going to email her and see if she works in my town. I’m looking at city lawyers. They may travel. 

Or you may need to travel to her.  Most divorces are based on the county you file in. If you live in a podunk town and the county courthouse is in nearby city, your case will be heard in the city.

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I’m not considered her client til she agrees to take on my case. To answer the questions above. 

We do have a courthouse in my county (not my town). I need to know if she would represent me here. 

My friend in lawyers office said no way are they taking the kids away. Dh works nights. 

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4 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

If you contact a local women's shelter they will likely be able to steer you to a lawyer that is affordable or has a sliding scale, who has experience in these types of cases. 

 

It could even turn out to be the very same recommended “shark” doing pro bono volunteer work 🙂. One never knows.  

Getting several different views and approaches from from different lawyers can be useful.  Sometimes talking to someone who you don’t think will be first choice as the first person you go to can help to learn how to present your problem better to first choice person.  

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6 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

If you contact a local women's shelter they will likely be able to steer you to a lawyer that is affordable or has a sliding scale, who has experience in these types of cases. 

People keep talking about women’s shelters but I do not know of any. There’s a place called Grace House but it’s for people affected by AIDS/HIV and other non applicable things. There’s a place called Wingward Home but it’s for getting people off the streets in dire straits and not just for women. One or two other places I found online were in danger of closing so I don’t know if they are open. 

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I'm pro shark. Especially when dealing with a tool in court. You get what you pay for, so if you can afford it without selling off a kidney and it will get you and the kids a new start without filing bankruptcy, there is nothing wrong with doing a drive by on the aquarium, LOL and see what you see. At some point you do have to decide who's kids you want to send to college, but a free consult never hurt a thing. Take copious notes if you ask a lot of questions because your adrenaline may spike up when you go in and may get fuzzy later. Then hide the notes. 

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15 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

If you contact a local women's shelter they will likely be able to steer you to a lawyer that is affordable or has a sliding scale, who has experience in these types of cases. 

Or find a lawyer who knows that the judge will order your husband to pay part of your legal fees.  

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1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

I heard this one attorney is a shark and offers free consults but her actual fees are $$$. I don’t have a quote yet. 

The place that is pro bono or cheap (university of law) is nearly 2 hrs. away so likely won’t help. I thought it was in Jackson but it says Oxford. 

Do the free consult. If you have consulted with her you're dh won't be able to hire her against you.

ETA nevermind I see others have said this is not always true.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Or find a lawyer who knows that the judge will order your husband to pay part of your legal fees.  

 

They don’t own a house, don’t have savings and I’m going to guess that he’s not a big retirement saver.  I doubt there are assets to go after for legal fees and his librarian salary isn’t going to go far.  Not saying it’s right but she is likely going to  need to come up with a retainer herself.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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I know all uni's are different, but when I worked in state uni and hospital system here, there was a mandatory retirement contribution from us they matched at 100%. Just throwing that out that he might have the something similar. Maybe. We couldn't opt out. It was required, and it took five years to vest. So you'll want to check out what the retirement system is in general at his place. It might not be near that generous because it sounds smaller, but worth checking out to see if you don't have those docs at home just to try and get a ballpark if there's anything there. 

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19 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

 

They don’t own a house, don’t have savings and I’m going to guess that he’s not a big retirement saver.  I doubt there are assets to go after for legal fees and his librarian salary isn’t going to go far.  Not saying it’s right but she is likely going to  need to come up with a retainer herself.  

Well this is probably true.  

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32 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

People keep talking about women’s shelters but I do not know of any. There’s a place called Grace House but it’s for people affected by AIDS/HIV and other non applicable things. There’s a place called Wingward Home but it’s for getting people off the streets in dire straits and not just for women. One or two other places I found online were in danger of closing so I don’t know if they are open. 

 

Contact the one in NC I sent you a link to.  See if they know any in your area.    

If not see if they can work with you to give some advice or any other help by phone and if it could even be a back up option for emergency escape...  

 

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Just thought of something else to document that’s sorta documented already with his current pediatrician. One time ds was accidentally given an additional dose of medicine. I know Dh and I had a miscommunication. We both freaked out but I was trying to get answers before acting. Dh was yelling at ds to throw up and had ds in tears over the toilet. I think he even put his finger down ds’ throat trying to force it. These crazy lines or dots appeared on ds’ face. I made Dh call poison control. They weren’t too helpful but said ds should be ok. They even put us on hold once and forgot about us. 

The next day, probably without consulting Dh, I called the nurse and she worked us in for an office visit. The dr said the stuff on the face wasn’t an allergic reaction to the med but from the attempt to throw up! I was so mad at Dh. It’s called petechiae. Now that had never happened to ds before and one could argue it would happen one day with or without Dh’s involvement but the whole interaction was traumatizing to me so I can only imagine from ds’ POV. He returned to school and had marks on his face for days. 

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It is possible that Mississippi is deficient in having such a program (excellent multi service DV shelter program for women and children).  If that’s so, and you are good at fundraising and so forth, maybe going (with your kids) to live at and work at some good programs elsewhere could allow you to learn and then start a program in Mississippi yourself.  

I think the best in my area of Oregon was started by a woman who was a DV victim and had had nowhere to go for sanctuary or support.  Recognized the need and put her life back together and started a shelter program.  

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22 minutes ago, Pen said:

It is possible that Mississippi is deficient in having such a program (excellent multi service DV shelter program for women and children).  If that’s so, and you are good at fundraising and so forth, maybe going (with your kids) to live at and work at some good programs elsewhere could allow you to learn and then start a program in Mississippi yourself.  

I think the best in my area of Oregon was started by a woman who was a DV victim and had had nowhere to go for sanctuary or support.  Recognized the need and put her life back together and started a shelter program.  

Since I posted asking I have been linked to a couple leads by friends but I’m not sure they serve my area. For example, the Catholic charities offers some free legal help, etc. but it listed three counties. None are mine. 

There’s a thrift store that benefits battered woman so they are probably linked to a shelter but that’s very far from my home. 

At any rate, I’ll just see what that attorney says and I’ll try to work on the job app. tonight or tomorrow. 

Yes, helping women for a job or as a volunteer would be nice but I’m not sure when I’ll be in such a position. I have always felt compelled to help others when I go through something or I feel there’s a calling. But it usually doesn’t go anywhere or not anything serious. 

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1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

Just thought of something else to document that’s sorta documented already with his current pediatrician. One time ds was accidentally given an additional dose of medicine. I know Dh and I had a miscommunication. We both freaked out but I was trying to get answers before acting. Dh was yelling at ds to throw up and had ds in tears over the toilet. I think he even put his finger down ds’ throat trying to force it. These crazy lines or dots appeared on ds’ face. I made Dh call poison control. They weren’t too helpful but said ds should be ok. They even put us on hold once and forgot about us. 

The next day, probably without consulting Dh, I called the nurse and she worked us in for an office visit. The dr said the stuff on the face wasn’t an allergic reaction to the med but from the attempt to throw up! I was so mad at Dh. It’s called petechiae. Now that had never happened to ds before and one could argue it would happen one day with or without Dh’s involvement but the whole interaction was traumatizing to me so I can only imagine from ds’ POV. He returned to school and had marks on his face for days. 

 

I don’t know.  To me that comes through as a possible fear based reaction due to worry about child. 

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But it might be helpful as a rebuttal to him accusing you of Munchausen by proxy...   that he doesn’t know how to handle things and isn’t willing to get help from medical people...

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One thing I will add to walk through mentally yourself and soon, as you wade through this, is to consider all the things if you do pull the divorce trigger as far as he and his parents having access to the kids without you there. And what that means, and how big of a deal that will be to you. I think someone mentioned this a lot earlier in the thread, but it is a consideration. I'm not diminishing what he's doing or taking a position like "don't leave". Let me be clear. But the odds are high you will get shared custody with one parent having slightly more time than the other, unless you have some super extenuating circumstances with more than he said/she said as far as some other outside authority weighing in on signs of abuse/danger. And then even if the only  abuse is toward you, somehow that ends up being seen as not affecting the kids, which is how I've had friend who was abused, and her xh still ended up with the kids because he never touched the kids and he made a mint.

But, once that divorce is final and the visitation is all spelled out, it's a done deal and you cede all control really when they are at his house. You have to show true risk, and at least in my state, they pretty much require an injury happen, or something really severe before something is deemed a risk enough to affect custody. It's not a proactive system. It's a reactive system. I think that was my biggest shock as a divorced parent. But things like having girlfriends sleep over while your kids are there, etc. If he moves in with someone else and has your kids and this new woman's kids sharing rooms.......leaving them with baby sitters you do not know. All of those and more that you may object to, and may or may not have successfully put into the decree- it still has to happen before the court will step in, if then. It has to be violated pretty much before it can be enforced, and it cost $$ to have it enforced. 

So you might as well wrestle with some of that now in your head and how you are going to feel about it, while you mull the rest. The separation/divorce is definitely not the finish line. It's only the start, which is why I think so many women stay for as long as they can. Because you can leave, but you are still shackled there until the youngest is 18 in many ways, just with less control and oversight. Not trying to overwhelm you- obviously I am keen with you meeting the lawyer-  but I am bringing up because I think the more information you have, the better informed your decision will be long term. That- the upbringing stuff as far as content allowed to see, girlfriend sleeping over, having kids share rooms- that  is probably the thing I gave the least consideration in my divorce while it was being hammered out. I don't regret what I did one bit, but I do wish I'd given such things a bit more attention in my divorce decree and what I could and couldn't outline. I was so focused on just getting it DONE, what I thought was straightforward actually wasn't, but I didn't realize it until after the fact. It's a lot more than divvy-ing up weekends and holidays,  picking churches and schools. It's really a lot of the minutiae of what your kids are doing day in and day out, and who they are allowed to be with/live with/left with that is the most serious. 

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3 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

One thing I will add to walk through mentally yourself and soon, as you wade through this, is to consider all the things if you do pull the divorce trigger as far as he and his parents having access to the kids without you there. And what that means, and how big of a deal that will be to you. I think someone mentioned this a lot earlier in the thread, but it is a consideration. I'm not diminishing what he's doing or taking a position like "don't leave". Let me be clear. But the odds are high you will get shared custody with one parent having slightly more time than the other, unless you have some super extenuating circumstances with more than he said/she said as far as some other outside authority weighing in on signs of abuse/danger. And then even if the only  abuse is toward you, somehow that ends up being seen as not affecting the kids, which is how I've had friend who was abused, and her xh still ended up with the kids because he never touched the kids and he made a mint.

But, once that divorce is final and the visitation is all spelled out, it's a done deal and you cede all control really when they are at his house. You have to show true risk, and at least in my state, they pretty much require an injury happen, or something really severe before something is deemed a risk enough to affect custody. It's not a proactive system. It's a reactive system. I think that was my biggest shock as a divorced parent. But things like having girlfriends sleep over while your kids are there, etc. If he moves in with someone else and has your kids and this new woman's kids sharing rooms.......leaving them with baby sitters you do not know. All of those and more that you may object to, and may or may not have successfully put into the decree- it still has to happen before the court will step in, if then. It has to be violated pretty much before it can be enforced, and it cost $$ to have it enforced. 

So you might as well wrestle with some of that now in your head and how you are going to feel about it, while you mull the rest. The separation/divorce is definitely not the finish line. It's only the start, which is why I think so many women stay for as long as they can. Because you can leave, but you are still shackled there until the youngest is 18 in many ways, just with less control and oversight. Not trying to overwhelm you- obviously I am keen with you meeting the lawyer-  but I am bringing up because I think the more information you have, the better informed your decision will be long term. That- the upbringing stuff as far as content allowed to see, girlfriend sleeping over, having kids share rooms- that  is probably the thing I gave the least consideration in my divorce while it was being hammered out. I don't regret what I did one bit, but I do wish I'd given such things a bit more attention in my divorce decree and what I could and couldn't outline. I was so focused on just getting it DONE, what I thought was straightforward actually wasn't, but I didn't realize it until after the fact. It's a lot more than divvy-ing up weekends and holidays,  picking churches and schools. It's really a lot of the minutiae of what your kids are doing day in and day out, and who they are allowed to be with/live with/left with that is the most serious. 

I’m not sure they’ll do much worse without me there since they hardly respected me there. Mil once spanked ds and I confronted her and said don’t do that. She said Dh said she could. It never happened again and it’s true they could try to do that crap without me around but my kids will tell me. I don’t think they’d want to risk me hearing about it. 

I might be a hardass and say the kids can’t skeep at the inlaws (mil/Gil or sil) because they smoke and ds has asthma. I’ve never been able to enforce it on my own. 

So who knows. Might not all be bad. But yes good things to mull over.  

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2 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I’m not sure they’ll do much worse without me there since they hardly respected me there. Mil once spanked ds and I confronted her and said don’t do that. She said Dh said she could. It never happened again and it’s true they could try to do that crap without me around but my kids will tell me. I don’t think they’d want to risk me hearing about it. 

I might be a hardass and say the kids can’t skeep at the inlaws (mil/Gil or sil) because they smoke and ds has asthma. I’ve never been able to enforce it on my own. 

 

There's nothing you can do about stuff like that if you retain shared custody, let alone if you don't. As has been said, it's no one's job to ensure court orders are adhered to.
 

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Just now, Rosie_0801 said:

 

There's nothing you can do about stuff like that if you retain shared custody, let alone if you don't. As has been said, it's no one's job to ensure court orders are adhered to.
 

My friend who recently got divorced has it in their agreement that her ex doesn’t take the kids to his mom’s 2 doors down. I said how can that be enforced? She said because her daughter would tell her. The mom can visit but the kids can’t go to her home. There was a reason that she lost trust with the woman and I don’t recall the specifics. 

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1 minute ago, heartlikealion said:

My friend who recently got divorced has it in their agreement that her ex doesn’t take the kids to his mom’s 2 doors down. I said how can that be enforced? She said because her daughter would tell her. The mom can visit but the kids can’t go to her home. There was a reason that she lost trust with the woman and I don’t recall the specifics. 

 

And if her daughter tells her, she can blast her ex, who can keep doing it anyway if he wants.

You don't have the sort of husband who is going to be obliging. You have the sort who is going to do as mine does, which is pretty much the opposite of anything I say. Not that he has to, because I have precisely 0% parental responsibility and he has precisely 0% legal obligation to listen to me. Or our daughter, for that matter.

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5 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

And if her daughter tells her, she can blast her ex, who can keep doing it anyway if he wants.

You don't have the sort of husband who is going to be obliging. You have the sort who is going to do as mine does, which is pretty much the opposite of anything I say. Not that he has to, because I have precisely 0% parental responsibility and he has precisely 0% legal obligation to listen to me. Or our daughter, for that matter.

I’m so sorry, Rosie 😢

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5 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I’m not sure they’ll do much worse without me there since they hardly respected me there. Mil once spanked ds and I confronted her and said don’t do that. She said Dh said she could. It never happened again and it’s true they could try to do that crap without me around but my kids will tell me. I don’t think they’d want to risk me hearing about it. 

I might be a hardass and say the kids can’t skeep at the inlaws (mil/Gil or sil) because they smoke and ds has asthma. I’ve never been able to enforce it on my own. 

So who knows. Might not all be bad. But yes good things to mull over.  

If you’ve let them sleep there while you were married, it’s unlikely you could get that put into the custody agreement.

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1 hour ago, scholastica said:

If you’ve let them sleep there while you were married, it’s unlikely you could get that put into the custody agreement.

Oh well. It’s not that big of a deal in the whole scheme of things. When dd was younger I did take her to my parents’ overnight. 

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6 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I’m so sorry, Rosie 😢

 

No! I'm not looking for sympathy!

It's just that you can't even try to protect yourself against problems you can't imagine.
People think law means justice, but it doesn't. That is a really important thing to know!

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8 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

No! I'm not looking for sympathy!

It's just that you can't even try to protect yourself against problems you can't imagine.
People think law means justice, but it doesn't. That is a really important thing to know!

I know you weren’t but I can’t click a sad face on your posts. And that’s how I reacted. 

It’s so true, so much unknown. But based on our history and my children’s ages, I’m hoping they won’t do anything outrageous. The kids usually go to my inlaws about 4x a year and if that continues that’s ok but I don’t want him using him mom as his ft sitter. And yes, I suppose that would be possible if he moved closer to them but he’s been trying for years and had no luck with the job market. 

I actually told my gf that if I moved closer to my parents they’d share a school district with their cousins and that’s ok but I’d hesitate to list inlaws as authorized school pick up/emergency people. 

I do think about some things but I can’t think of all the things. So it helps to have others clue me in. 

 

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1 hour ago, scholastica said:

If you’ve let them sleep there while you were married, it’s unlikely you could get that put into the custody agreement.

A doctor's note explaining the asthma and that he cannot be around smokers or in a smoker's house should work. 

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