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heartlikealion

Navigating work/personal life boundaries

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3 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I reminded them today but they forget and toss in sink 


I put up a sign right above the sink: CHECK THE DISHWASHER.  It's on bright orange paper.
We had issues, too. 😄

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45 minutes ago, maize said:

You would disapprove of my housekeeping, I always wash towels with other clothes. The only laundry separating I do is whites from colors.

Since detergents have changed, I don’t even do that...  (slinking away emoji). And honestly I haven’t noticed our clothes suffering as a result. 

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I wonder if your FIL has executive function skill issues too, and that's why MIL does everything.  She just gave in and did everything, not only because of the era, but because otherwise nothing would get done.  And now it's normal.

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No need to justify your laundry. I am sure my way takes much longer than many and that leads to the chaos. 

I don't think fil comes across that way. He does expect his wife to do most things. Except when he was between jobs? I do remember there was a period in which he did some things like laundry and vacuuming. But how hard is that when there are just two of you and your children are grown? 

He expects mil to pick up food & prescriptions. He mows and does some handy tasks. He and bil do some projects together. Like I think hung/wired? their current ceiling fans. 

Fil stays on routine. Wakes up early every day. Dh stays up late, has poor sleep habits. I think he’s been unhealthy for a long time. I’m sure it does take a toll on what he’s motivated to do. Standing can hurt. I think from sciatica or something. He’s seen drs. 

I’m a little cold about it I know. He doesn’t take care of himself enough. 

He wanted us to see the new Zombieland movie for his birthday this month. I said no about dd. He said last night he can just go alone. I said is this about the sitter? You’d rather just uninvite ds and I than pay a sitter? He said he didn’t know if I wanted to see it. Well I wouldn’t have picked it but I would have gone. I saw the first one. 

So I guess go celebrate your birthday alone or invite your guy friend and I’ll stay home and save money? 

 

Edited by heartlikealion

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1 hour ago, maize said:

You would disapprove of my housekeeping, I always wash towels with other clothes. The only laundry separating I do is whites from colors.

And I don't separate at all. However, I wash everything on hot and then use the dryer. 

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1 hour ago, hjffkj said:

This would depend on what other things are expected of him. My ten year old today has washed and dried two loads of laundry, made lunch for his siblings, taken the dogs out multiple times, feed dogs, changed a few diapers, and cleaned up after lunch(dishes in sink and table wiped down.) He could certainly load the dishwasher and it would be strenuous but at a certain point chores do get in the way of the rest of life, including school work, and that is unfair to a child. 

There are.so.many other things my DS does on a daily basis that haven't gotten done today because I'm sick and need extra help with more important things that I usually handle. I wouldn't ask him to still do all those normal things on top of the chores he's helping me with

Well of course. But I’ve not read anything in this long thread of the son having to do a myriad of chores, it sounds like Heart does everything. Being firm and delegating chores to her son should be doable, even if convincing her husband to be a better partner isn’t.

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I think the point of the whole laundry thing is: There's more than one way to skin a cat. 

If dh is going to do laundry, then he should do it his way. If he's going to wash dishes, then ignore him when he uses the wrong towel. If he's going to load the dishwasher, then he gets to put all the cups in the wrong section and the giant mixing bowl in the bottom even though it takes up WAY too much space and takes literally 10 seconds to hand wash. 

Well, maybe the last one is just my dh.

Picking battles is good. Especially in a situation that tends toward the acrimonious like this one. Little stuff like which towel is used or whether the towels get washed in hot or cold water is maybe not a hill to die on. Assuming he's doing housework at all, which seems to be a big assumption. Patterns like this one aren't made any better by micromanaging. If he ever was/is inclined to take on any household responsibilities, nitpicking the towel he uses will just play into his ego and give him another excuse not to "help." And more importantly, it only raises your blood pressure.

I am pretty particular about a lot of things, so I get it. But given that you only have control over your own actions here, letting go of trivial stuff is one I'd work extra hard on, for your own sake.

ETA: I do think it's true what someone said upthread, about it being hard to see that some things are common annoyances that most marriages experience when you're in a situation like this. And it all adds up, I know. But hopefully it's helpful to hear that doing chores in different ways, and having to balance those differences between spouses, is pretty normal. Even if a lot of what you are experiencing is decidedly not.

Edited by PeachyDoodle
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When I was a SAHM and homeschooling my only and married to his father (a difficult relationship) I just did it all.  He worked and I did the rest.  I even mowed our 1 acre lot.  He did weed eat.  

I work 3 days a week now and  have a different non difficult husband....so my life is different.  

But is it possible to divide the labor into work for him/SAHM stuff for you?

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My son doesn’t do much and whines over the bit he has sometimes. I don’t think he’s neurotypical. He is not average for his age from what I have observed. He only learned how to tie shoes this year and I’ve had to refresh him on how to do it. I don’t want to get off on a side conversation about him too much. But trust me, just because your 11 yr old or your relatives with an 11 yr old do A, B and C does not mean it will easily apply here. The waiter tried to show Ds how to hold chop sticks on Friday. The thing is his motor skills are already lacking so chop sticks are extra hard. I’ve tried to fix his pencil grip. An OT worked with him. He just doesn’t like the “proper” grip and doesn’t remember proper placement. Yes, we’ve used pencil aids. 

He still puts on shirts by stuffing his shoulders in rather then putting arms up through sleeves first. Hard to explain. Stretches out shirt. 

Dd can do things better than him in some areas. That’s just he reality. He can’t cut well. She’s already mastered scissor skills better. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

But is it possible to divide the labor into work for him/SAHM stuff for you?

I guess I don’t understand the question 

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2 hours ago, PeachyDoodle said:

I wash all laundry in cold water. It saves a little energy, and if the clothes are going in the dryer it's hot enough to kill most everything.

It’s the soap that does stuff to fecal coliforms. It washes the germs down the drain. 

Think of it this way. When you wash your hands after using the toilet, you don’t use hot hot hot water. But you do use lots of soap. 

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16 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I guess I don’t understand the question 

I think she means to sit down and specifically figure out who in the house is responsible for what things. With your dh's attitude I don't think will be possible. But I do think it will be an incredibly important thing to establish specific agreed upon roles if you get a full-time job. And that would be the time to put your foot down on doing everything in the house or else you'll still be drowning because your working full-time and doing all the housework. 

Right now it is probably better to get what you can done, whether dh approves or not, while focusing your energy on finding work

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26 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

My son doesn’t do much and whines over the bit he has sometimes. I don’t think he’s neurotypical. He is not average for his age from what I have observed. He only learned how to tie shoes this year and I’ve had to refresh him on how to do it. I don’t want to get off on a side conversation about him too much. But trust me, just because your 11 yr old or your relatives with an 11 yr old do A, B and C does not mean it will easily apply here. The waiter tried to show Ds how to hold chop sticks on Friday. The thing is his motor skills are already lacking so chop sticks are extra hard. I’ve tried to fix his pencil grip. An OT worked with him. He just doesn’t like the “proper” grip and doesn’t remember proper placement. Yes, we’ve used pencil aids. 

He still puts on shirts by stuffing his shoulders in rather then putting arms up through sleeves first. Hard to explain. Stretches out shirt. 

Dd can do things better than him in some areas. That’s just he reality. He can’t cut well. She’s already mastered scissor skills better. 

 

He can do more than you think or give him credit for.  Assign the chore/task and let him do it.  This is where learning that it will not be like you do it but it gets done will come in handy for you. Perfectionism can silently askew how we do/see things.  It make take a few tries but your DS can do things.  


The chopsticks I can’t do still and let how he puts on a shirt go.  I have seen adults do it they way he does.  

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9 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

I think she means to sit down and specifically figure out who in the house is responsible for what things. With your dh's attitude I don't think will be possible. But I do think it will be an incredibly important thing to establish specific agreed upon roles if you get a full-time job. And that would be the time to put your foot down on doing everything in the house or else you'll still be drowning because your working full-time and doing all the housework. 

Right now it is probably better to get what you can done, whether dh approves or not, while focusing your energy on finding work

I understood Scarlett to be saying: Is it possible to just handle the home stuff, and let his work be his contribution. But I could be wrong. TBH, this is pretty much how our home runs. I am home, so I do the home stuff and school stuff. He works, so he brings home the bacon. If Heart can be comfortable with that, it could help to manage expectations. At least as long as she continues to stay at home. Obviously her getting a job will change things. But I am not confident that a conversation about division of labor will be all that productive here.

Just now, itsheresomewhere said:

He can do more than you think or give him credit for.  Assign the chore/task and let him do it.  This is where learning that it will not be like you do it but it gets done will come in handy for you. Perfectionism can silently askew how we do/see things.  It make take a few tries but your DS can do things.  


The chopsticks I can’t do still and let how he puts on a shirt go.  I have seen adults do it they way he does.  

I agree. I spent a summer in Hong Kong and still never mastered chopsticks. He won't learn if he isn't given the incentive and opportunity to do so. This is another one of those areas where letting go of ideals is important. Who cares how he puts his shirt on? At this point, who care how he holds his pencil (assuming he can write relatively legibly and without pain)? Expectations matter. If you assume he can't, he won't.

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Ok I can work on some more things. 

But the job/home role if I get a job? Haha Don’t think it will matter. I was the FT employed parent when we married. I’d come home and I’d have to find a way to get laundry done with ds screaming his head off if I put him in the playpen so I could step outside to the carport where the washer/dryer were. 

The main difference may be dinner. He’ll have to accept me cooking less or us doing more meal prep on weekends etc. I don’t know. Just don’t have my hopes up at all. 

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9 minutes ago, PeachyDoodle said:

 

I agree. I spent a summer in Hong Kong and still never mastered chopsticks. He won't learn if he isn't given the incentive and opportunity to do so. This is another one of those areas where letting go of ideals is important. Who cares how he puts his shirt on? At this point, who care how he holds his pencil (assuming he can write relatively legibly and without pain)? Expectations matter. If you assume he can't, he won't.

Quoting you so what I say and what you wrote may trigger something to think about in hearts brain.
 

You say that your MIL does everything for your FIL and for DH.  You don’t want that for your DS yet in a unknowing way you are kind of setting this up for him by you doing things for him and thinking he can’t/won’t.   Time to let him spread his wings and try.  It won’t be perfect but he can’t learn until you let him try. 

Edited by itsheresomewhere
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Just now, itsheresomewhere said:

Quoting you so what I say may trigger something to think about in hearts brain. 
 

You say that your MIL does everything for your FIL and for DH.  You don’t want that for your DS yet in a unknowing way you are kind of setting this up for him by you doing things for him and thinking he can’t/won’t.   Time to let him spread his wings and try.  It won’t be perfect but he can’t learn until you let him try. 

Oh I know and I was going to teach him the washing machine the other day but something derailed us. 

He learns about money with me and couponing and stuff. I asked if he wanted to learn to operate the lawn mower but then I remembered his allergies & asthma and I was already nervous to let him do it because sometimes it’s physically hard for me to push. So we ended up not doing it. 

I think there are two extremes. I did not do much as a child but then my cousins were responsible for tons of chores and making meals. I saw how miserable my cousin was when I visited. I just want a middle ground. 

The pencil mattered to me as we always hear holding it wrong fatigues the hand. 

I did have him pack and I was guiding him but he didn’t pack any shirts besides the one for church 🤦🏽‍♀️ Lol 

I am slowly putting more responsibility on him. 

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5 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Ok I can work on some more things. 

But the job/home role if I get a job? Haha Don’t think it will matter. I was the FT employed parent when we married. I’d come home and I’d have to find a way to get laundry done with ds screaming his head off if I put him in the playpen so I could step outside to the carport where the washer/dryer were. 

The main difference may be dinner. He’ll have to accept me cooking less or us doing more meal prep on weekends etc. I don’t know. Just don’t have my hopes up at all. 

I tend to agree with you that expecting dh to pick up the slack if you are working is a pipe dream. Better to manage your expectations there. But this is why beginning to train the dc to take on some reasonable tasks is important. While you have them at home and are looking for jobs is a good time to start.'

And I agree with the point above about teaching ds to have different expectations of his future wife/partner.

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4 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I think there are two extremes. I did not do much as a child but then my cousins were responsible for tons of chores and making meals. I saw how miserable my cousin was when I visited. I just want a middle ground. 

There are also extremes between mowing the lawn unassisted and loading your own dishes into the dishwasher. I wouldn't necessarily expect an 11yo with asthma to mow, especially if it's a difficult yard. We have three acres and just began teaching dd to mow this summer. Definitely won't expect ds to learn next year when he's almost 10. Maybe by 13-14. We have a lot of hills.

But an 11yo can do a LOT of things that are less complicated than mowing. Freeing you up to concentrate on the harder tasks.

Edited by PeachyDoodle
Apparently forgot how old my kid is...
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Dh said he’d print the curriculum pages this weekend but he didn’t. He brought home one thing today. The remainder of the student pages of the English (Treasured Conversations) . But no teacher pages. We’ll flip through it tomorrow. 

Ds and I did some history today (reading aloud from Builders of the Old World). Going to go sew now. I’d like to teach the kids when I know how. Or learn together. 

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38 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

I think she means to sit down and specifically figure out who in the house is responsible for what things. With your dh's attitude I don't think will be possible. But I do think it will be an incredibly important thing to establish specific agreed upon roles if you get a full-time job. And that would be the time to put your foot down on doing everything in the house or else you'll still be drowning because your working full-time and doing all the housework. 

Right now it is probably better to get what you can done, whether dh approves or not, while focusing your energy on finding work

 

It bugs me when people bring their techniques which work in non-abusive families and suggest them for a family in which one person is financially and verbally abusive (just jumping off your post here, and I note you noted that it won't work for heart in her situation - not directed at you).

Of course it won't work for heart to say 'dear husband, let us sit down and work out who is responsible for which job.' It's pretty clear that heart is responsible, in her husbands view, for everything that doesn't fall under 'his job and his leisure time', and it's also pretty clear that any conversation like that is just an opening for more abuse.

She's been with this guy for a decade or more.  People underestimate the effects of that. All this 'well, here's what you can do about the laundry' - it's kinda irrelevant. One thing at a time! It's enough to say, yeah, he should be treating you better heart - in the meantime, keep looking for work.

All this other stuff is just - ugh - more directions to heart about how she can do better. Which she hears enough. From her d*ck of a husband. 

 

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25 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Ok I can work on some more things. 

But the job/home role if I get a job? Haha Don’t think it will matter. I was the FT employed parent when we married. I’d come home and I’d have to find a way to get laundry done with ds screaming his head off if I put him in the playpen so I could step outside to the carport where the washer/dryer were. 

The main difference may be dinner. He’ll have to accept me cooking less or us doing more meal prep on weekends etc. I don’t know. Just don’t have my hopes up at all. 

 

You'd kinda be a fool to get your hopes up in this particular situation. Waste of energy. If you were dealing with the kind of partner who would step up when you got a f/t job, you'd be in a whole other marriage.

Just keep your energy to and for yourself as much as you can, and that's about all you can do. 

Oh, and also? Don't take on the guilt about 'oh no I am not training ds right'.  That's just more 'you're a bad wife' sh#t. I can tell you who isn't training ds right, and that's his freaking father.

 

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Heart, just to be clear, none of my posts above were intended to convey that you aren't training your ds "right." Whatever that means.

I meant that training ds and dd can be a way to help relieve your own burden. It is not unreasonable to expect them to help out, and if they are able to help, they can take some of the load off of you. Maybe only a little bit, but that little bit might be of help. 

I am not shaming you. I am trying to look for options that might have real productive value, taking into consideration the reality of the situation as it stands now. Should your dh be doing more? Hell, yes! But he isn't, and his behavior is entirely out of your control. If you remain in your marriage, or if you leave it, you are unfortunately largely on your own here. If I lived near you, I would be there in a heartbeat helping out, if that's what you wanted. I'm not, so I'm trying to offer whatever practical ideas and support I can.

I can't speak for others, but I expect that was their intention as well.

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Just now, PeachyDoodle said:

Heart, just to be clear, none of my posts above were intended to convey that you aren't training your ds "right." Whatever that means.

I meant that training ds and dd can be a way to help relieve your own burden. It is not unreasonable to expect them to help out, and if they are able to help, they can take some of the load off of you. Maybe only a little bit, but that little bit might be of help. 

I am not shaming you. I am trying to look for options that might have real productive value, taking into consideration the reality of the situation as it stands now. Should your dh be doing more? Hell, yes! But he isn't, and his behavior is entirely out of your control. If you remain in your marriage, or if you leave it, you are unfortunately largely on your own here. If I lived near you, I would be there in a heartbeat helping out, if that's what you wanted. I'm not, so I'm trying to offer whatever practical ideas and support I can.

I can't speak for others, but I expect that was their intention as well.

Same here.  Still no idea how someone got that impression from our posts.  

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One (sad) thing I keep thinking is that an 11yo boy is likely to more and more follow his father's example in how his mother is treated or considered. It may be hard for Heart to train him to do what she says and get him to help her if his father is so careless about putting everything on her. There can come a time, of course, when she makes him wash his own clothes, etc., but the training in general may be a lot more challenging due to her dh's attitudes.

 

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7 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

One (sad) thing I keep thinking is that an 11yo boy is likely to more and more follow his father's example in how his mother is treated or considered. It may be hard for Heart to train him to do what she says and get him to help her if his father is so careless about putting everything on her. There can come a time, of course, when she makes him wash his own clothes, etc., but the training in general may be a lot more challenging due to her dh's attitudes.

 

 

And more challenging due to the fact that her husband has opted out of effective child rearing, AND is using ineffective (harmful) methods of child discipline (hitting an 11 yr old, threatening an 11 yr old etc)

 

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Yes I took it like oh great more stuff I’m doing wrong or need to add to my list... not intentional shaming, though. 

I’m failing or sinking in so many ways. I feel like I don’t know if I’ll ever swim. 

1. Make kids do VT exercises. How will dd get to appointments if I get a FT job?? Dh probably would say don’t bother 

2. Educate 

3. Clean house/make meals/laundry 

4. Yard 

5. Exercise 

6. Read my stack of books on parenting, EF, adhd, sleep, peripheral vision, boundaries, marriage 

uggggh my house is still hoarder ish 

i don’t have the mental patience or energy sometimes to scaffold. Ds broke a glass and I heard about it from everyone for weeks because apparently glass was not all cleaned up despite our efforts. Ds steppes in glass at least once. 

Going into class now. 

It will be ok. Somehow 

 

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52 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

It bugs me when people bring their techniques which work in non-abusive families and suggest them for a family in which one person is financially and verbally abusive (just jumping off your post here, and I note you noted that it won't work for heart in her situation - not directed at you).

Of course it won't work for heart to say 'dear husband, let us sit down and work out who is responsible for which job.' It's pretty clear that heart is responsible, in her husbands view, for everything that doesn't fall under 'his job and his leisure time', and it's also pretty clear that any conversation like that is just an opening for more abuse.

She's been with this guy for a decade or more.  People underestimate the effects of that. All this 'well, here's what you can do about the laundry' - it's kinda irrelevant. One thing at a time! It's enough to say, yeah, he should be treating you better heart - in the meantime, keep looking for work.

All this other stuff is just - ugh - more directions to heart about how she can do better. Which she hears enough. From her d*ck of a husband. 

 

To be clear I was not suggesting anything like that.   I was I guess remembering my own bad marriage to a dick of a husband and how it was just easier on me to do the house stuff and let  him work and have no expectation of him and ever helping me in the house.  Or with our son.  

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3 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Yes I took it like oh great more stuff I’m doing wrong or need to add to my list... not intentional shaming, though. 

I’m failing or sinking in so many ways. I feel like I don’t know if I’ll ever swim. 

1. Make kids do VT exercises. How will dd get to appointments if I get a FT job?? Dh probably would say don’t bother 

2. Educate 

3. Clean house/make meals/laundry 

4. Yard 

5. Exercise 

6. Read my stack of books on parenting, EF, adhd, sleep, peripheral vision, boundaries, marriage 

uggggh my house is still hoarder ish 

i don’t have the mental patience or energy sometimes to scaffold. Ds broke a glass and I heard about it from everyone for weeks because apparently glass was not all cleaned up despite our efforts. Ds steppes in glass at least once. 

Going into class now. 

It will be ok. Somehow 

 

 

I always feel like I am trying to juggle more balls than is possible and all I can do is try to be sort of strategic about which ones to drop. So maybe this week we I don't get a child to an extracurricular class, maybe we don't get everybody's dental cleanings in on time, maybe certain rooms go months at a time without being cleaned, maybe we have pizza for dinner too many nights. 

My kids are fed and clothed and major health needs are being addressed as best we can. And some schooling happens. Those are kind of the basics.

We can only do what we can do, and what we can do is always going to be imperfect.

Re: getting kids to help--I think parents with kids who don't struggle with executive function do not realize how very much parental time and effort goes into getting an ADHD kid through chores. And how many years you can keep putting in that time and effort without the kids being able to just do the stuff without scaffolding. 

When time and energy are low--which is almost always for me--we have to resort to doing the stuff ourselves because getting the kids to do it is too exhausting.

Not one of my kids is reliable with chores, even when they have good will. My oldest has better executive function than most of mine but even she habitually leaves stuff half done--and she really does have all the good will in the world and wants to help. Since I struggle myself I'm not the best when it comes to training them and being consistent in requiring stuff, but my mom was way more structured and consistent and failed with me in spite of all her years of trying.

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21 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Yes I took it like oh great more stuff I’m doing wrong or need to add to my list... not intentional shaming, though. 

I’m failing or sinking in so many ways. I feel like I don’t know if I’ll ever swim. 

1. I don't in any way think you are failing. At all. On the contrary, I think you have made great progress over the past few months!

2. I can completely understand that it feels overwhelming. And like you have a to-do list that will never end. I have certainly felt that way before, and it sucks.

3. That said, we all are doing what you asked for in this thread -- i.e., giving advice. Advice doesn't mean you *have* to do it or even *should* do it. It's just advice. A suggestion that the giver hopes might give you something new to try or a different perspective that hadn't occurred to you before. It might or might not work in your specific situation. Only you can decide that. But please give all of us here the benefit of the doubt that we are merely here on your thread trying to help and do what you asked. It's not fair to ask for advice and then complain that you are being overburdened by it. 

4. I will bow out now. I sat on this thread for a very long time before responding precisely because of the above. All the best of luck to you! You are doing great!

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29 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Yes I took it like oh great more stuff I’m doing wrong or need to add to my list... not intentional shaming, though. 

I’m failing or sinking in so many ways. I feel like I don’t know if I’ll ever swim. 

1. Make kids do VT exercises. How will dd get to appointments if I get a FT job?? Dh probably would say don’t bother 

2. Educate 

3. Clean house/make meals/laundry 

4. Yard 

5. Exercise 

6. Read my stack of books on parenting, EF, adhd, sleep, peripheral vision, boundaries, marriage 

uggggh my house is still hoarder ish 

i don’t have the mental patience or energy sometimes to scaffold. Ds broke a glass and I heard about it from everyone for weeks because apparently glass was not all cleaned up despite our efforts. Ds steppes in glass at least once. 

Going into class now. 

It will be ok. Somehow 

 

Certainly I am not shaming you.  And  because of this situation...and because you have decided divorce is off the table it is why I suggested a job outside the home may not be the best idea at this moment.

However, I also agree with whoever suggested that you getting a job might change the dynamic sufficiently that you could be happier that way. 

 

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1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

Yes I took it like oh great more stuff I’m doing wrong or need to add to my list... not intentional shaming, though. 

I’m failing or sinking in so many ways. I feel like I don’t know if I’ll ever swim. 

1. Make kids do VT exercises. How will dd get to appointments if I get a FT job?? Dh probably would say don’t bother 

2. Educate 

3. Clean house/make meals/laundry 

4. Yard 

5. Exercise 

6. Read my stack of books on parenting, EF, adhd, sleep, peripheral vision, boundaries, marriage 

uggggh my house is still hoarder ish 

i don’t have the mental patience or energy sometimes to scaffold. Ds broke a glass and I heard about it from everyone for weeks because apparently glass was not all cleaned up despite our efforts. Ds steppes in glass at least once. 

Going into class now. 

It will be ok. Somehow 

 

Self talk is very important.  Telling yourself that you are sinking or failing isn't helpful or true.  For one thing, none of us have it all together all the time and many of us don't even have it all together most of the time.  We have it "good enough" and that's ok.  There are an awful lot of moving parts for SAHMs and even more when that SAHM is homeschooling as well.  (And there are an awful lot of moving parts for Work at Home moms and Work Out of the Home Moms.)  The reason why people have shared tips or philosophies on time management or laundry or whatever, is partly because threads like these go off on all sorts of tangents without there being a hidden message but also because as someone else mentioned, we are showing that there is "more than one way to skin a cat".  (With apologies to all the cats.  😉  )  We all have slightly different circumstances now and in the past and perhaps something, somewhere, will prove helpful to your specific circumstance.  It's ok to be discerning in choosing what that helpful thing might be but do be aware that you have choices.  It is empowering to know that you have choices.  And that you don't always have to choose the Very Best Thing. 

I like how you ended with "It will be ok."  Because it will be. 

 

Edited by Jean in Newcastle
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5 hours ago, hjffkj said:

Yes, but the bad wife comments are when you simply leave the room. Rinse repeat. He does not have power over you if you don't allow it. Yes, he could continue to follow you and keep assaulting you verbally but then leave the house, go to the library and work on your resume.

I know none of that is easy but sticking up for yourself and expecting respect has to start somewhere. 

I'm sorry you have to go through all of this.

I agree. And do you also demonstrate the behavior you want? For example, when he makes dinner, do you thank him and say something good about it? Personally, I think modeling this behavior for children can be very powerful.

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5 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Ds struggles with the most basic of tasks. It’s like pulling teeth to get some things done. So I’m just glad we’ve made unloading part of his routine. I have low expectations. It’s easier on me atm. I have to constantly remind him to feed/change water for the cat and some days he’ll say, “she has water” and I’ll say, “is it new?” He’ll say no and I’ll say, “then get her fresh water.” Rinse repeat all the time. 

He has executive functions issues. Time management etc. He loses his pencils all the time, etc. 

Does he have a chore chart so that you can just refer him to it, rather than having to remind him about the specific tasks?

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Quite a few of us on here have children with disabilities, executive function disorders, and adhd so we are just not understanding.  We know how is not easy but they can do it.  You could start easy ( garbage out to can, can to street on trash day if you have it, gathering laundry and put it in the laundry area for you, vacuum) and work up to the harder ones( washer).  A color coded chart might be his thing.  He chooses one from this category and another from that one. 

Edited by itsheresomewhere
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Well you see, I asked for advice on specific things, none of which were, “do you think I’m too hard/soft on the dc regarding chores? What should I do?” 

This is why I’m not always receptive to advice just because it was a thread I started. I was trying to focus on the work boundaries, then divorce/legal info, and also navigating things like how to get a credit report done. 

I’m not mad. I just wanted it to be clear I didn’t technically ask for advice on ds and even stated I didn’t want to talk about him too much. So don’t say, “well you asked.” 

I do need to make him a chore chart. We have done those before but they largely get ignored. I think he could be at a good age to try again. 

I don’t have negative self talk all day. I’m just saying I feel like I’m treading water and people are asking me if I’m ready for the race lol 

I already have culled things in my life. Ds isn’t doing any extracurriculars. In fact he’s supposed to do archery in the yard and now that it’s cooling off maybe he’ll be more willing. Tonight I told the family just eat what we have... there are hot dogs in the fridge and leftover chicken. You may have to cook something. Dh said it’s ok. 

My main focus is can we address ELA and math but we still do some science etc. Its just limited. 

Once things die down with commitments and dr appts I hope we have less running around. 

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Oh and I never said no to getting a job. I didn’t think I shot that down, in case anyone thought I did. I’m just waiting to see where those job apps go. I haven’t seen anything else pop up to apply to but I’ve looked. 

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3 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

It’s the soap that does stuff to fecal coliforms. It washes the germs down the drain. 

Think of it this way. When you wash your hands after using the toilet, you don’t use hot hot hot water. But you do use lots of soap. 

 

Actually it's not the soap.  It's the friction.  That's why recommendations focus more on length of time washing rather than amount of soap.

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5 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Since detergents have changed, I don’t even do that...  (slinking away emoji). And honestly I haven’t noticed our clothes suffering as a result. 

 

I don’t separate like that either.  For me especially since I got big capacity front loader. 

It’s not just detergents.  

Most dyes don’t run even on a very first wash and hardly ever after that.  I’m trying to think of when I have had anything color anything else even with no color segregation—aside from ink pen in the wash. 🙁.   Not for decades.  My grandmother told me to use vinegar at first wash to help set colors, and maybe I do that.  Or not.  I don’t know.  It seems more of a story book problem (Farmer Boy or The Mixed Up Files of Mrs. ... or While Mrs Coverlet was Away — where kids doing laundry end up with red underwear. ) 

I wash pretty much everything medium hot unless unusual load—wool or down or needing extra hot.   Sometimes I use “sanitize” settings.  Sometimes cold.  I often use some naturally disinfecting type additional stuff like vinegar, borax, oxyclean, depending on load.  

Ds washes his own clothes. Usually on cooler settings, I think.  Like “workout wear”.   I taught him how and don’t oversee or micromanage it.  

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Anyway to extent it applies to work/personal boundaries, I think that if someone helps at all with dishes or whatever try to feel happy inside and accept it as a help and good enough, not to add requirements on like “wrong” or right towels.

and if you are doing something for someone else you could similarly go for “reasonable” way of doing, but if he wants just so, his own way, then he can do it himself 

and try to be logical.  If you have a lice problem you’ve got to deal with that, but washing whites at kill louse temperature won’t solve a lice infestation.  And if you don’t have a lice problem you don’t need louse killing temperatures

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The thread was initially about his job and our personal life. Not housework boundaries. Like him using our personal Sam’s club card to stock his library coffee stand. And not getting reimbursed. 

I’m sorry this is getting all murky. And I don’t care how others do their laundry. That’s your house, your business. Please don’t think I’m saying you’re doing it wrong. 

Someone in my house has an issue where they have um leaked in their underwear so yes I’d rather wash undies on hot. 

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I do want to apologize for not being more gracious. 

And if I see Dh it ds helping I will try to show positive reinforcement. When I asked them to load the dishwasher while I was at class tonight ds said he’d rather do laundry lol so I said well the dishwasher is what I need right now but we can do laundry together tomorrow.

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17 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

The thread was initially about his job and our personal life. Not housework boundaries. Like him using our personal Sam’s club card to stock his library coffee stand. And not getting reimbursed. 

I’m sorry this is getting all murky. And I don’t care how others do their laundry. That’s your house, your business. Please don’t think I’m saying you’re doing it wrong. 

Someone in my house has an issue where they have um leaked in their underwear so yes I’d rather wash undies on hot. 

 

It morphed a lot in 21 pages! 😉

 

and yet I think the various “boundary” issues are actually probably quite interrelated .  

 

 

I would maybe  ask straight out if he thinks his job is in danger and if that’s why he feels he has to personally pay for things for work.  Maybe he feels that spending $x per year on work is better than being unemployed entirely.

Feeling like his job is precarious could explain a lot of things going on.  

 

Or, could be he cannot keep track of receipts or something and y’all just need a method...

 

Otoh a yard hole not being filled in seems like a par for the course sort of problem...and probably very low priority for maintenance staff.  It’s a pain, but just filling it in might be better than any method of trying to get maintenance yourself or your dh doing so.  

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1 hour ago, itsheresomewhere said:

Quite a few of us on here have children with disabilities, executive function disorders, and adhd so we are just not understanding.  We know how is not easy but they can do it.  You could start easy ( garbage out to can, can to street on trash day if you have it, gathering laundry and put it in the laundry area for you, vacuum) and work up to the harder ones( washer).  A color coded chart might be his thing.  He chooses one from this category and another from that one. 

It isn't just one part of life that makes things difficult.

Heart is dealing with a child with apparent executive function and maybe other difficulties, another child who also has some difficulties, a husband who is not supportive of her parenting efforts or anything else and in fact undermines her in many ways, financial strain, and her own struggles with anxiety and executive function.

Everything together can mean that some things have to be rather neglected, and the intense work of consistently scaffolding her son with household chores may be one of those things.

We each have different burdens, and while sharing "here is something that works for me" is helpful, turning that into "I don't get why you can't just do the same same and see the same success" isn't.

Edited by maize
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7 minutes ago, maize said:

It isn't just one part of life that makes things difficult.

Heart is dealing with a child with apparent executive function and maybe other difficulties, another child who also has some difficulties, a husband who is not supportive of her parenting efforts or anything else and in fact undermines her in many ways, financial strain, and her own struggles with anxiety and executive function.

Everything together can mean that some things have to be rather neglected, and the intense work of consistently scaffolding her son with household chores may be one of those things.

We each have different burdens, and while sharing "here is something that works for me" is helpful, turning that into "I don't get why you can't just do the same same and see the same success" isn't.

Quite a few on here are in the same boat as heart.  They just don’t say it. Heart is needed to control to try to get above water.  We are showing her little ways she can and let control go in some ways.  There is not right nor wrong but sometimes hearing those ways can give us a light bulb moment down the road that helps.  That is what we are doing.  Telling her that to let her DS help and try is a good thing.  One day she might try and realized it wasn’t as bad as she thought. And someone else reading this thread who is having the same problems it might help too. 

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Behind all the navigation of work/ personal/ marriage / boundary / etc issues, there seem to possibly be EF issues.  

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Edited: I don’t think Heart wants this information anymore, so I’m deleting my reply. 

Edited by Quill

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12 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

The thread was initially about his job and our personal life. Not housework boundaries. Like him using our personal Sam’s club card to stock his library coffee stand. And not getting reimbursed. 

I’m sorry this is getting all murky. And I don’t care how others do their laundry. That’s your house, your business. Please don’t think I’m saying you’re doing it wrong. 

Someone in my house has an issue where they have um leaked in their underwear so yes I’d rather wash undies on hot. 

 

12 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I do want to apologize for not being more gracious. 

And if I see Dh it ds helping I will try to show positive reinforcement. When I asked them to load the dishwasher while I was at class tonight ds said he’d rather do laundry lol so I said well the dishwasher is what I need right now but we can do laundry together tomorrow.

Threads this long tend to go in a million different directions. Sorry we bombarded you with information! :) We love you, girl. Hang in there. Even if you have to wait a year, two years, three years, just keep working your plan. (Job, independence, disassociation from jerky behavior.) And yeah, even if you plan on leaving eventually, there's no harm in learning to react with kindness as much as possible,

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14 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Well you see, I asked for advice on specific things, none of which were, “do you think I’m too hard/soft on the dc regarding chores? What should I do?” 

This is why I’m not always receptive to advice just because it was a thread I started. I was trying to focus on the work boundaries, then divorce/legal info, and also navigating things like how to get a credit report done. 

I’m not mad. I just wanted it to be clear I didn’t technically ask for advice on ds and even stated I didn’t want to talk about him too much. So don’t say, “well you asked.” 

I do need to make him a chore chart. We have done those before but they largely get ignored. I think he could be at a good age to try again. 

I don’t have negative self talk all day. I’m just saying I feel like I’m treading water and people are asking me if I’m ready for the race lol 

I already have culled things in my life. Ds isn’t doing any extracurriculars. In fact he’s supposed to do archery in the yard and now that it’s cooling off maybe he’ll be more willing. Tonight I told the family just eat what we have... there are hot dogs in the fridge and leftover chicken. You may have to cook something. Dh said it’s ok. 

My main focus is can we address ELA and math but we still do some science etc. Its just limited. 

Once things die down with commitments and dr appts I hope we have less running around. 

 

As a heads up from a single mom dealing with a teen Ds and various issues in our lives including EF, time spent dealing with EF now is likely to reap abundant future benefits/ or in the reverse, avoid as huge issues later on as there may be if not dealt with. 

Not really a too hard/soft issue so much as a learning issue.

And it’s really hard when we ourselves aren’t good at something our dc need.  

But with excellent EF skills and some basics in reading, learning history etc in future won’t be that hard.  Nor will navigating boundaries in life be as hard.  Whereas more history study and less work on EF IMO is likely to have long term negative repercussions.  It is much easier to learn basic EF by emphasizing it heavily in 6th grade period of life.  

Teen years of dc are almost upon you and chances are it will be much harder to get your Ds learning chores and organizing time and space as a teen.  I’m saying this from POV of someone struggling now in dc teen years.  History from earliest nomads to fall of USSR and 20th Century studies and a lot of other history from Homeschooling was lots of fun.  However, I think my Ds would have been better off (and me too) with much more emphasis on EF, chores routine etc, than history etc.  

This then can affect adult child-parent relations and also how dc will deal with possible future spouses, jobs, etc.   (I mean, I don’t know that yet for a fact with my own Ds, but am sure that it’s so from others I know). 

 

Edited by Pen
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