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heartlikealion

Navigating work/personal life boundaries

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4 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

 

We don’t actually know that.  If he has spinal disk trouble, loading DW may be quite hard for him.  

In a good marriage they “should “ be able to talk about it.  Maybe he more consistently cooks, and she more consistently loads dW. 

I must have missed that he is injured. If he has a back injury I certainly wouldn't expect him to load the dishwasher, assuming he doesn't do a bunch of other things that suit him which are in fact bad for his back.

But yes, they should be able to communicate their issues better. 

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6 minutes ago, Katy said:

I wonder what would happen if you did refuse to mow the lawn.  At what point would the school discipline HIM for not taking care of the property?  I'm not saying to do it, I'm just curious.

BTDT. 

The neighbor came over and mowed it once. Dh was embarrassed probably and annoyed. We were out of town when it happened but the yard got bad before then. 

Another time he let it go so long that he paid a guy with a riding mower then got upset the guy charged extra and requested the money in a rude manner in front of others at his library. Dh did ask him to come by the library because I didn’t want Dh sending the man here when it was their transaction. 

At first Dh made fun of me and was annoyed I had all these requirements for mowing. I had to find gloves and ear muffs. He doesn’t wear any of that. He’s killing his ears. He made fun of me. I said whatever, I want to keep my hearing. I bought eye goggles too but they fog up so I can’t really use them. 

So yeah the yard has never been attended to better than now. 

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It’s true I forget about the back sometimes. But he moves furniture at work and hardly lifts a finger at home. 

When we married I didn’t know how to cook. Now except for him making something he really wants or maybe a meal once a week I do all the cooking. He does not like my meatloaf. I don’t like onion but I ate his. It had a bunch of onion in it. 

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Oh I understand clutter causing mental health issues. That's why I'd leave the house on a daily basis, even if it meant doing school at the park or library. Then when I'd get home I'd retreat to my room, which I purposely kept clutter free. It taught me that clutter and dirty rooms messed with my mental health not because they were dirty but because they were my responsibility. Once I came to terms with the fact that it wasn't my responsibility it stopped effecting me so much. But that was a long process.

 

But that approach likely doesn't work for everyone

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Just now, hjffkj said:

Oh I understand clutter causing mental health issues. That's why I'd leave the house on a daily basis, even if it meant doing school at the park or library. Then when I'd get home I'd retreat to my room, which I purposely kept clutter free. It taught me that clutter and dirty rooms messed with my mental health not because they were dirty but because they were my responsibility. Once I came to terms with the fact that it wasn't my responsibility it stopped effecting me so much. But that was a long process.

Dh thinks the house is my responsibility. He even puts garbage bags by the door but doesn’t take them out. I just do it now. Again, not because I think it’s my job or I’m doing it to please him but because I want it done. 

I think he thinks he’s superior because he works. Any request can easily be responded (by him) with justifying lack of household help with the hours he logs at the office. 

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His mom does EVERYTHING. It’s no surprise he thinks I need to get on board. 

If he runs a load of laundry at his parents’ house they tell *me* the wash is done or the dryer just beeped. 

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5 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Dh thinks the house is my responsibility. He even puts garbage bags by the door but doesn’t take them out. I just do it now. Again, not because I think it’s my job or I’m doing it to please him but because I want it done. 

I think he thinks he’s superior because he works. Any request can easily be responded (by him) with justifying lack of household help with the hours he logs at the office. 

We'll I hope if you get a job that changes.

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13 minutes ago, Katy said:

If you get the job in the city and get an apartment for you and the kids there, and he's living alone...  what will happen?  Will he live like a slob and expect you to drive over and take care of the dishes and the lawn while he games and ignores the kids every weekend?

I’d think I’d tell him to mow his yard and he’d hire someone because he’d think we could afford it? 

I’d be soooo happy his clothes would be his problem but he’d probably try to make them my problem. 

He only agreed to have an apartment as a couple but with the consideration that maybe he’d keep the faculty home for a while. Like maybe sleep there during the week? Not sure. If we could afford that I might be on board but then my friend pointed out the issue of his name being on any apt, house, etc. 

I really just don’t want to be in charge of his stuff. Like the other day he said his jeans were dirty. I said so? You’re on fall break and can wear dress slacks Tuesday. He said but I need the jeans if I leave the house (go to the store). I thought, ffs then wash them!!!! 

I don’t know how you can be like that. I did wash them later. I don’t want to fight and I guess I’m picking my battles. Bit good grief stop acting helpless 

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20 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

 

True, being a single mom is very different than how a married wife in heart's situation feels. However, as a married person she should be able to expect help, specifically when she speaks up and asks for the help she needs because she does have a partner capable of doing those things. 

Ah, but life is not made up of the things that should be.

Some men will eventually step up if dishes are just left in the sink; some won't.

For some of us there is a lot more inner peace to be had in just not expecting much in the way of household contribution from a partner. Not because it should be that way but because it is that way and letting myself stress over it hurts only me.

Heart, if you are going to ask your husband to do things I suggest making the request very specific. Not: "could someone load the dishwasher while I am gone" but "Dh, the dishwasher needs to be loaded and I still have a bandage on my hand, would you load it while I run errands?" Then wait for an acknowledgement from him and say thanks.

If he often fails to follow through on such requests though I would stop asking because I'm more upset if I ask and it doesn't happen than if I just assume it is my work and find a way to do it.

If he gets to a point where he is motivated to improve his relationship with you there will be an opportunity to negotiate a more equal division of the family workload. Without that motivation I am not sure there is much you can do to change his behavior. Things that impact him directly such as not having clean clothing or groceries in the house could be motivating, but unless dirty dishes in the sink really bother him it might be a really, really long time before he decides to step up and address the issue.

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10 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Nope, things literally will not get done. Trust me. Dishes can be stacked up for weeks. I was busting my tail to do them before our last trip (Sept) because who wants to return to a dirty kitchen? Dh didn’t care enough to do it but cared enough to urge me to do it the day before. I wasn’t doing it for him, though. I was doing it for myself. 

I’ve suffered mentally from living in clutter. He has the escape of leaving the house many hours a day. It takes a toll on women more than men. 

 

I have the same experience. 

10 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Ds already unloaded the dishwasher. I just wanted him to focus on the school because we’ve already fallen “behind” from not getting enough one on one time, leaving the house for hours when he was taking that English class, travel (I was quite distracted trying to visit with family and figure out my marriage situation), etc. I told myself, and ds, that my main concern is math & English so at the very least he needs to do math and we’re trying to sort out the English curriculum dilemma.

 

How “behind”? Would it be hard for him to transition into public when you get job?

10 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I’ve asked Dh to print the remainder of our old curriculum (that we didn’t use) so we can at least see if there’s stuff in it we can still do. Meanwhile I’m debating buying the teacher edition of WWS since he got the student copy for that class we dropped. 

I wonder if you need teacher Ed to use it?  Maybe the school parts are worth separate thread on gen ed or correct grade area of Wtm?

 

10 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I learned a few years ago I can be mad something isn’t done or get it done. Second option anger is optional lol 

 

Again, I can relate!  I expect a lot of women can.

7 minutes ago, Katy said:

If you get the job in the city and get an apartment for you and the kids there, and he's living alone...  what will happen?  Will he live like a slob and expect you to drive over and take care of the dishes and the lawn while he games and ignores the kids every weekend?

 

That’s an interesting question!

 

 

Would he be responsive to being told the kids miss him and could he give them good quality time?

 

 

I have another question which is in living together circumstances, how much of what you (Heart) do is related to taking care of DH?

like in hours per day related to what you could not be doing if not married. (His personal washing, his personal ironing, yardwork that you would not do if single mom like if it’s just because of his demands, etc)

That is additional to what you would have to do anyway if a single mom?

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Exactly! 

I do think Dh acknowledged my request and said he’d do the dishwasher but I noticed this morning the dishwasher was empty and sink was high. He did say something like sink was not draining well so he didn’t wash everything. Maybe that was part of the reason the dishwasher didn’t get done. But he’s up late. He could have done dishes after water cleared. Could have checked to see if food trap was full. But instead just gave up on the chore. 

Also can’t remember what’s a hand towel vs dish towel and will dry a dish with the wrong one. It’s usually obvious (as in, the fabric) but if not he should ask or grab a new towel. In my mind, anyway. 

If I live in an apt the dishwasher will probably hold more. We have a small portable right now. He actually complained to me about no clean forks or something (again I thought then why didn’t you load and run the dishwasher?!). Luckily I had run it that night before bed so I just pointed at the clean magnet and said they are clean.

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6 minutes ago, Pen said:

I wonder if you need teacher Ed to use it?  Maybe the school parts are worth separate thread on gen ed or correct grade area of Wtm?

She's already asked about this on Gen Ed (or maybe Logic Stage), and yes, you do need the TM for WWS. 

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13 minutes ago, maize said:

Ah, but life is not made up of the things that should be.

Some men will eventually step up if dishes are just left in the sink; some won't.

For some of us there is a lot more inner peace to be had in just not expecting much in the way of household contribution from a partner. Not because it should be that way but because it is that way and letting myself stress over it hurts only me.

Heart, if you are going to ask your husband to do things I suggest making the request very specific. Not: "could someone load the dishwasher while I am gone" but "Dh, the dishwasher needs to be loaded and I still have a bandage on my hand, would you load it while I run errands?" Then wait for an acknowledgement from him and say thanks.

If he often fails to follow through on such requests though I would stop asking because I'm more upset if I ask and it doesn't happen than if I just assume it is my work and find a way to do it.

If he gets to a point where he is motivated to improve his relationship with you there will be an opportunity to negotiate a more equal division of the family workload. Without that motivation I am not sure there is much you can do to change his behavior. Things that impact him directly such as not having clean clothing or groceries in the house could be motivating, but unless dirty dishes in the sink really bother him it might be a really, really long time before he decides to step up and address the issue.

I think that we all pick our battles to some extent.

You can't make another adult do things.  There can be "natural consequences" of dishes in the sink but as you noted, some people (not just men) still won't "see" them and step up.  But I will say that there was a time (not in a marriage) where I had to set boundaries with dishes and I set the table with just what was clean - whether it was just one fork for four people.  When there was a complaint, I motioned to the sink and let them wash the other forks etc. needed. 

In my marriage, I do 90% of the housework (or don't do it - my house would win no prizes), I do 100% of the schooling, I do 90% of the  yardwork, I do 100% of the finances, banking and taxes, I do 100% of my husband and my laundry but he does 100% of his ironing because I refuse to do it and it will just sit there and he wants ironed shirts - on occasion he has taken his shirts to the dry cleaners to be done and it irritates me a bit but hey, he's taking responsibility for his shirts so not my problem!.  But I feel respected and loved and valued and that makes 100% of the difference. 

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13 minutes ago, maize said:

Ah, but life is not made up of the things that should be.

Some men will eventually step up if dishes are just left in the sink; some won't.

For some of us there is a lot more inner peace to be had in just not expecting much in the way of household contribution from a partner. Not because it should be that way but because it is that way and letting myself stress over it hurts only me.

Heart, if you are going to ask your husband to do things I suggest making the request very specific. Not: "could someone load the dishwasher while I am gone" but "Dh, the dishwasher needs to be loaded and I still have a bandage on my hand, would you load it while I run errands?" Then wait for an acknowledgement from him and say thanks.

If he often fails to follow through on such requests though I would stop asking because I'm more upset if I ask and it doesn't happen than if I just assume it is my work and find a way to do it.

If he gets to a point where he is motivated to improve his relationship with you there will be an opportunity to negotiate a more equal division of the family workload. Without that motivation I am not sure there is much you can do to change his behavior. Things that impact him directly such as not having clean clothing or groceries in the house could be motivating, but unless dirty dishes in the sink really bother him it might be a really, really long time before he decides to step up and address the issue.

 

This all makes lots of sense to me.

28 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Dh thinks the house is my responsibility. He even puts garbage bags by the door but doesn’t take them out. I just do it now. Again, not because I think it’s my job or I’m doing it to please him but because I want it done. 

 

Some of this could maybe be done by dc? 

28 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I think he thinks he’s superior because he works. Any request can easily be responded (by him) with justifying lack of household help with the hours he logs at the office. 

 

When you get job, maybe do the same and justify less household doing because of your work hours.  Or maybe at some point some of your earnings can go towards household help.  I hope you find a path that leads to you eventually being higher income than he is!

 

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8 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I have the same experience. 

How “behind”? Would it be hard for him to transition into public when you get job?

I wonder if you need teacher Ed to use it?  Maybe the school parts are worth separate thread on gen ed or correct grade area of Wtm?

Again, I can relate!  I expect a lot of women can.

That’s an interesting question!

Would he be responsive to being told the kids miss him and could he give them good quality time?

I have another question which is in living together circumstances, how much of what you (Heart) do is related to taking care of DH?

like in hours per day related to what you could not be doing if not married. (His personal washing, his personal ironing, yardwork that you would not do if single mom like if it’s just because of his demands, etc)

That is additional to what you would have to do anyway if a single mom?

I quit ironing. Now he runs his shirt in the dryer briefly before work sometimes — although it doesn’t always help enough! But he won’t pick up the iron. 

Currently I sometimes make him lunch and drop off or put in fridge. Not every day, though. He’s super fussy about clothes and asked me not to wash his dress clothes with other items because he heated that’s why they were getting smudges. I have no idea! So I do a separate load just for his clothes. I do the folding and if they get put away it’s because I did it or had the kids help. 

I guess I wash more towels because of him. He also uses oversized towels so that takes up more room in washer/shelf but not a huge deal. 

I do most of the Christmas shopping but he gets mad sometimes lol like I left him out. I’m just better with the budget and I shop year round. I am not going to text him every time I see an item. If we weren’t together I don’t know if I’d need to? I’ve wanted us to lower the budget or draw names but his family never gets on board. I suggested the name drawing for adults this year. (Shopping list: MIL, FIL, SIL, BIL, niece,  nephew, Mil’s friend/honorary aunt + her adult child that comes over, & some family on my side. We both pick out some items for our kids. He has overrode my decisions on Santa gifts before and that was frustrating. One year was a $60 Fall Out Boy game too mature for ds. Another year was a TV I never agreed to). 

I do the grocery shopping (I’d do even if I was single but without regard to his current requests. Last time he balked at ground turkey so I bought beef). 

Yard 

Pick up mail (packages and po box). They have wonky hours so I usually have to do it. 

Submit all the receipts for the flex spending card (our medical receipts including his dr appointments). .

Last year I went to get his new car tag and put it on the vehicle. 

So it doesn't sounds like a lot but it would make a difference

 

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7 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I think that we all pick our battles to some extent.

You can't make another adult do things.  There can be "natural consequences" of dishes in the sink but as you noted, some people (not just men) still won't "see" them and step up.  But I will say that there was a time (not in a marriage) where I had to set boundaries with dishes and I set the table with just what was clean - whether it was just one fork for four people.  When there was a complaint, I motioned to the sink and let them wash the other forks etc. needed. 

In my marriage, I do 90% of the housework (or don't do it - my house would win no prizes), I do 100% of the schooling, I do 90% of the  yardwork, I do 100% of the finances, banking and taxes, I do 100% of my husband and my laundry but he does 100% of his ironing because I refuse to do it and it will just sit there and he wants ironed shirts - on occasion he has taken his shirts to the dry cleaners to be done and it irritates me a bit but hey, he's taking responsibility for his shirts so not my problem!.  But I feel respected and loved and valued and that makes 100% of the difference. 

Yes!! In the right context I wouldn’t even mind. I think you’re doing awesome. 

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He's on chapter 2 of 6th grade Math Mammoth. He likes math and I can omit problems so I think we can catch up. 

The English I'm still trying to sort out. The history I bought a new book and we haven't done it. We need to sit down together and do that. I had hoped to do that on Wednesday mornings but thinks keep coming up. Tomorrow I'm going to the eye dr, then taking the kids to swing by her optometrist's second office to get the nail polish painted on her new lenses and then possible go to the fair. Irresponsible? Maybe. But if I get a job this may be the only chance to do it and we've never gone to the fair. 

Ds agreed to do weekend work if we have to catch up. I think we can get there if we need to.

It's unintentional but I have a lot going on this week. I planned a Mom's night for our homeschool group weeks ago. It's this Friday. But some Mom time would be nice, too! 

Ds has one of those jumbo books "6th grade curriculum" and thinks it's too easy. I picked out a few pages for him to do yesterday that looked slightly more challenging. He's done Daily Grams before and I didn't bother to buy the current grade level. I'm still trying to figure out what is worth purchasing.

My jaw about dropped last night when I overheard dh tell his mom it's okay if you can't get the Prime (Amazon membership) this year. I got it, it's just a hard month with my school and the car tags. I thought WHAT you got it? Really? We have six dollars in our savings account. WTH is wrong with you.

And yes I know I sound like a hypocrite but I have ibotta funds and birthday money. I'm not planning on spending $100 at the fair/mom's night, either. 

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7 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I quit ironing. Now he runs his shirt in the dryer briefly before work sometimes — although it doesn’t always help enough! But he won’t pick up the iron. 

Currently I sometimes make him lunch and drop off or put in fridge. Not every day, though. He’s super fussy about clothes and asked me not to wash his dress clothes with other items because he heated that’s why they were getting smudges. I have no idea! So I do a separate load just for his clothes. I do the folding and if they get put away it’s because I did it or had the kids help. 

I guess I wash more towels because of him. He also uses oversized towels so that takes up more room in washer/shelf but not a huge deal. 

I do most of the Christmas shopping but he gets mad sometimes lol like I left him out. I’m just better with the budget and I shop year round. I am not going to text him every time I see an item. If we weren’t together I don’t know if I’d need to? I’ve wanted us to lower the budget or draw names but his family never gets on board. I suggested the name drawing for adults this year. (Shopping list: MIL, FIL, SIL, BIL, niece,  nephew, Mil’s friend/honorary aunt + her adult child that comes over, & some family on my side. We both pick out some items for our kids. He has overrode my decisions on Santa gifts before and that was frustrating. One year was a $60 Fall Out Boy game too mature for ds. Another year was a TV I never agreed to). 

I do the grocery shopping (I’d do even if I was single but without regard to his current requests. Last time he balked at ground turkey so I bought beef). 

Yard 

Pick up mail (packages and po box). They have wonky hours so I usually have to do it. 

Submit all the receipts for the flex spending card (our medical receipts including his dr appointments). .

Last year I went to get his new car tag and put it on the vehicle. 

So it doesn't sounds like a lot but it would make a difference

 

 

If you

1) felt loved and like you were emotionally supported  (not emotionally trashed) by him

And

2) weren’t as stressed by financial difficulties paying for basics while he was buying toys for himself and movies and meals with friends

and

3) he didn’t act controlling 

would a sort of old fashioned or stereotypical 1950’s like “man works at office / woman deals with kids and home” arrangement be okay for you?

 

still think in many ways a job would be a good thing for you—just wondering how much issue is dishes versus feeling unloved.

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What would happen if you simply replied to his demands to do his laundry with a "no." And if he begins to verbally assault you about it you just left the room. 

I know we all have to pick our battles but it sounds like he gets his way in all the battles he starts. It is going to be increasingly difficult to continue to homeschool, keep up with housework, do all you do to keep the budget intact, etc while also aggressively job hunting. Something will have to give in order to make room for job hunting and it certainly shouldn't be homeschooling, meal prep, or keeping the house at a certain cleanliness level. 

My fear for you if you don't find a way to take some things off your plate is you'll slow down on the job hunt and that will lead you back to where you've been stuck.

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Also start shifting to easier stuff if possible... new shirts all “no iron” ones for example. 

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I've always hated dishes lol But if I feel loved I can enjoy cooking and maybe even cleaning lol. I used to hate cooking, but now I don't mind... although it depends on what I'm making. I don't know how to cook a ton of things, but I make do. Baked chicken, roasted veggies, eggs, etc. are common here. We're not real fancy. Dh and I don't see eye to eye on food though so that can be frustrating. For example, he'd like me to make meals maybe from his mom's cook book or such. But a lot of her food is what we'd describe as rich and dh always says after visiting them, "ugh, I can't eat like that. It's too rich." Supposedly he wants to eat healthier ... for months that's why we used ground turkey. Suddenly ground turkey isn't good enough? He can't make up his mind.

I guess if I felt more loved I'd go out of my way more to make meals he really liked. We've had some things many times and then out of the blue he says he doesn't want/like it. I made stir fry this week. I just cooked chicken and used a bagged veggie mix + soy sauce. He said he didn't like the bag mix. Didn't eat it. I made a huge pot of gumbo using a bag mix as the base and added cubbed ham, turkey sausage, and okra. He really liked it. Then didn't touch it for the next two days as the leftovers sat there. On the third? day I said I was maybe going to have to toss it (I'd been eating on it every day). He said it was okay and I said well then do you want the rest? Because you've barely touched it. He finished it. But he does this all the time. Leaves leftovers in there untouched or used to come home and complain there was no food. Now if I cook he might come home and say oh the students picked me up food from the cafeteria. Then he forgets to take my dinner leftovers to lunch the next day. If I don't pack it, he will not take it. He used to say oh get up early with me, it'd be great if we could have oatmeal together. Some days I would and he'd rush out of here saying no time to eat (while I had the oatmeal ready on the stove). Alternatively I'd make a batch the night before and he'd just need to microwave a bowl. But he wouldn't do it. I found it infuriating. I haven't made him breakfast in a long time. 

So in a certain situation, yes, I could handle the traditional roles. But not like this. 

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The shirts are so complicated :(

He let me order all these shirts online and then later tells me the sleeves are too short. I'm like seriously? Well if I had known we wouldn't have gone by those measurements. His shirts all come from Big & Tall stores. He doesn't do well with the department stores that have a B&T section. It's limited and usually not a great selection (JCP, Belk). But lately he's been unhappy with choices at Casual Male XL. I cashed in a $5 rewards card for Casual Male on my Fetch app recently and he got a coupon for $20 off his next purchase. But I think he'll have go try on the items to know what is good for him. I used to order from King Size Direct online but the last time was a bad experience. He'll also complain if a shirt is too thin. So I don't even know what to buy him now. I used to buy him the box shirt sets but I stopped because the tie in the box is never long enough. 

At first I avoided wrinkle-free because that's code for doused in chemicals. But now I don't care lol. 

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25 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

What would happen if you simply replied to his demands to do his laundry with a "no." And if he begins to verbally assault you about it you just left the room. 

I know we all have to pick our battles but it sounds like he gets his way in all the battles he starts. It is going to be increasingly difficult to continue to homeschool, keep up with housework, do all you do to keep the budget intact, etc while also aggressively job hunting. Something will have to give in order to make room for job hunting and it certainly shouldn't be homeschooling, meal prep, or keeping the house at a certain cleanliness level. 

My fear for you if you don't find a way to take some things off your plate is you'll slow down on the job hunt and that will lead you back to where you've been stuck.

He tells me I'm a bad wife and selfish. I can walk away, but the tension is there and then when he needs the item the next day he'll just remind me I'm a bad wife and selfish again... 

To him it's like why wouldn't I do his stuff? I'm home all day and he's working. And his mom used to do his dad's military uniforms at home. So I think he subconsciously thinks that's a wife's duty. 

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I was thinking of giving it a few days and then reaching out to my old publisher to let him know I applied for that newspaper/magazine job owned by his boss. He would probably put a good word in for me. He did with the community college job that didn't pan out. 

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1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

 

Also can’t remember what’s a hand towel vs dish towel and will dry a dish with the wrong one. It’s usually obvious (as in, the fabric) but if not he should ask or grab a new towel. In my mind, anyway. 

This to me would fall under "if you want a job done your way, do it yourself. If someone else is doing the work don't micromanage them."

I will use any towel to dry my dishes; if it is clean enough for hands it is clean enough for dishes. If someone has strong feelings otherwise they can take over the job.

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2 minutes ago, maize said:

This to me would fall under "if you want a job done your way, do it yourself. If someone else is doing the work don't micromanage them."

I will use any towel to dry my dishes; if it is clean enough for hands it is clean enough for dishes. If someone has strong feelings otherwise they can take over the job.

That’s a perfectly valid philosophy. I try not to micromanage when he does a chore but if I walk by and he’s using the wrong towel it bothers me. Where do you draw the line? Do you care if someone washes towels and clothing together? If you do care would you assume responsibility over that chore in your household forever? Or teach others to wash them separately? 

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31 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

He tells me I'm a bad wife and selfish. I can walk away, but the tension is there and then when he needs the item the next day he'll just remind me I'm a bad wife and selfish again... 

To him it's like why wouldn't I do his stuff? I'm home all day and he's working. And his mom used to do his dad's military uniforms at home. So I think he subconsciously thinks that's a wife's duty. 

Yes, but the bad wife comments are when you simply leave the room. Rinse repeat. He does not have power over you if you don't allow it. Yes, he could continue to follow you and keep assaulting you verbally but then leave the house, go to the library and work on your resume.

I know none of that is easy but sticking up for yourself and expecting respect has to start somewhere. 

I'm sorry you have to go through all of this.

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38 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

The shirts are so complicated :(

He let me order all these shirts online and then later tells me the sleeves are too short. I'm like seriously? Well if I had known we wouldn't have gone by those measurements. His shirts all come from Big & Tall stores. He doesn't do well with the department stores that have a B&T section. It's limited and usually not a great selection (JCP, Belk). But lately he's been unhappy with choices at Casual Male XL. I cashed in a $5 rewards card for Casual Male on my Fetch app recently and he got a coupon for $20 off his next purchase. But I think he'll have go try on the items to know what is good for him. I used to order from King Size Direct online but the last time was a bad experience. He'll also complain if a shirt is too thin. So I don't even know what to buy him now. I used to buy him the box shirt sets but I stopped because the tie in the box is never long enough. 

At first I avoided wrinkle-free because that's code for doused in chemicals. But now I don't care lol. 

 

I don’t know what’s required for his type of work in Mississippi.

In some places a cotton polo shirt with decent slacks and blazer would do and comes out of drier fairly wrinkle free if not left to sit .

 

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1 minute ago, heartlikealion said:

That’s a perfectly valid philosophy. I try not to micromanage when he does a chore but if I walk by and he’s using the wrong towel it bothers me. Where do you draw the line? Do you care if someone washes towels and clothing together? If you do care would you assume responsibility over that chore in your household forever? Or teach others to wash them separately? 

 

You either assume responsibility forever or you do laundry your way and when they do it you let them do it their way. 

If dh micromanaged the way I did any of my chores they would immediately become his chores.

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30 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

He tells me I'm a bad wife and selfish. I can walk away, but the tension is there and then when he needs the item the next day he'll just remind me I'm a bad wife and selfish again... 

To him it's like why wouldn't I do his stuff? I'm home all day and he's working. And his mom used to do his dad's military uniforms at home. So I think he subconsciously thinks that's a wife's duty. 

This is like banging your head against a brick wall with some men, it is sooo frustrating when they just can't or won't perceive that we are working just as hard as them while they are at work and continue working all those hours they are off work.

They of course see caring for children, for example, as work when they themselves are doing it but not when we are? It is a massive blind spot I have tried and failed to address many times. I don't know the answer.

Extreme example, this one happened when my husband was in one of his less rational phases but still I have never yet figured out what was going through his brain:

I left him home with, at the time, five kids while I attended some event--maybe a women's conference? I was gone for about four hours.

He held things together but was about at the end of his rope when I came home. He was expressing his frustration and I guess I was not responding with enough sympathy because he finally burst out with "maybe you should try watching five kids for four hours!"

I think I laughed in his face that time. What, exactly, did he think I spent all day every day doing?

I still don't know.

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Well he has washed jeans, towels and other clothes all in one load lol 

I kinda grimaced just for the sanitary aspect. I feel like towels should ideally be washed on hot along with underwear. But I grew up with my mom often washing on cold so I mean I also know it’s not the end of the world. I didn’t rewash them. We just moved on. 

He says comments in passing anyway (like before he exits the room) so it’s not really like I necessarily have to leave the room or that that would have much effect. I just try not to react. Ignore it. 

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You would disapprove of my housekeeping, I always wash towels with other clothes. The only laundry separating I do is whites from colors.

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6 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I don’t know what’s required for his type of work in Mississippi.

In some places a cotton polo shirt with decent slacks and blazer would do and comes out of drier fairly wrinkle free if not left to sit .

 

He won’t wear polos. He has a couple sweater vests and a polo or 2 he’s never worn because he decided they are unflattering on his chest. Same thing with some of the thinner shirts so for example he said he had nothing clean once and I said what about that shirt and he said I have to wear that under a coat. He is self conscious about his chest because he’s overweight. He rotates a handful of dress shirts Mon-Thursday and usually dresses down on Friday and his Sun night shift. He wears jeans and a T-shirt with an open overshirt. 

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1 minute ago, maize said:

You would disapprove of my housekeeping, I always wash towels with other clothes. The only laundry separating I do is whites from colors.

The hive was where I started reading about fecal matter on underwear and got more paranoid lol now I throw underwear in with towels on hot. Other clothing on cold. 

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4 minutes ago, maize said:

You would disapprove of my housekeeping, I always wash towels with other clothes. The only laundry separating I do is whites from colors.

Mine too. My kids still at home wash their own clothes, which means there are not tons since it is just dh's and mine left. I basically wash heavies (jeans, towels, etc.) and lightweights (blouses, shirts, underwear), rather than darks and lights or other kinds of divisions.

ETA: The fecal matter idea IS gross; however, I lived for years where hot water for washing was not an option, so I see washing in warm as a step up. If things are dirtier than usual, I put in more wash powder and add an extra rinse.

Edited by Jaybee

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

If Ds is homeschooling such that he can do or not do homework at a particular time, it might also make more sense to prioritize him doing dishes over schoolwork.   School could be extended into summer to make up for time lost to dishes if needed.  And you could just make that a direct assignment to Ds.

A child of his age could be loading and unloading the dishwasher every day of the week and still get their homework done without even dreaming of extending the school year! Daily duties is a part of family life, IMO, without need of payment or begging. Doesn’t matter if the husband refuses to help or not, doing dishes is not anything strenuous.

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6 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

Mine too. My kids still at home wash their own clothes, which means there are not tons since it is just dh's and mine left. I basically wash heavies (jeans, towels, etc.) and lightweights (blouses, shirts, underwear), rather than darks and lights or other kinds of divisions.

ETA: The fecal matter idea IS gross; however, I lived for years where hot water for washing was not an option, so I see washing in warm as a step up. If things are dirtier than usual, I put in more wash powder and add an extra rinse.

We had no working hot water at first at one home. I don’t know of it was ever fixed. I remember the plumber saying it was not equipped for hot. So I compensated in my mind by using “Tide cold water.” It’s probably all a scam but gave me peace of mind. 

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20 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

That’s a perfectly valid philosophy. I try not to micromanage when he does a chore but if I walk by and he’s using the wrong towel it bothers me.

 

Could you Try to change your inner self talk to Yay! He’s drying a dish! Or whatever and dispute your own feeling bothered by”wrong” towel?

I’d be bothered if a dirty floor mat or dog drying or car washing towel were used on dishes.  A hand towel? No.  If someone dries hands on towel then touches dishes or if someone touches dish direct with hand towel, so what? 

Quote

Where do you draw the line? Do you care if someone washes towels and clothing together?

 

Not if there’s not some unusual reason to care.   Clothes were used for toxic cleanup or they have diarrhea on them, or something .   In my case fragrance products and would give me migraine.

 

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11 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

 

Yeah, I do laundry the same way as your dh and if my dh tried to fix the way I did it then I'd consider that his problem to deal with. If he continually tried to fix it then I'd stop doing the laundry and let him handle it.

There are things that I do differently than dh, like loading the dishwasher. He is so inefficient at it. But I don't stop him from doing it. I will rearrange things if I open it to put something in a notice that it is a messy. I do that when my mom loads it too. But I'd never mention that unless they were to ask, which my mom has done. I simply reply, " more fits if arranged this way."

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8 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Almost my whole wardrobe is darks lol 

#gothforlife 😉 

I bought white towels so that I would have a full load of whites more often. I don't like to run small loads. 

We do a gazillion loads of laundry a week with a large family.

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Ds struggles with the most basic of tasks. It’s like pulling teeth to get some things done. So I’m just glad we’ve made unloading part of his routine. I have low expectations. It’s easier on me atm. I have to constantly remind him to feed/change water for the cat and some days he’ll say, “she has water” and I’ll say, “is it new?” He’ll say no and I’ll say, “then get her fresh water.” Rinse repeat all the time. 

He has executive functions issues. Time management etc. He loses his pencils all the time, etc. 

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But no we haven’t had conversations about laundry lately. I’m just saying he could wash and hang his own clothes since they are so delicate/special or w/e instead of saying, “I have nothing clean” or “how did this smudge get there??” like I had any control. Sometimes I do run a washing agent in there but we don’t know why that seems to only happen to his dress shirts 

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4 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

A child of his age could be loading and unloading the dishwasher every day of the week and still get their homework done without even dreaming of extending the school year! Daily duties is a part of family life, IMO, without need of payment or begging. Doesn’t matter if the husband refuses to help or not, doing dishes is not anything strenuous.

This would depend on what other things are expected of him. My ten year old today has washed and dried two loads of laundry, made lunch for his siblings, taken the dogs out multiple times, feed dogs, changed a few diapers, and cleaned up after lunch(dishes in sink and table wiped down.) He could certainly load the dishwasher and it would be strenuous but at a certain point chores do get in the way of the rest of life, including school work, and that is unfair to a child. 

There are.so.many other things my DS does on a daily basis that haven't gotten done today because I'm sick and need extra help with more important things that I usually handle. I wouldn't ask him to still do all those normal things on top of the chores he's helping me with

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I wash all laundry in cold water. It saves a little energy, and if the clothes are going in the dryer it's hot enough to kill most everything.

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And at the very least I'd teach kiddos to rinse their dishes and load into the dishwasher after they eat. Even most littles are capable of that. If not, have dd clear the table and ds load the dishwasher. Wouldn't take more than 5 minutes. 

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I dry on low heat except for towels. Low heat doesn’t kill everything. I think lice for example requires hot. 

Wow my thread goes everywhere lol 

I wouldn’t wash jeans with towels personally because jeans might shrink on hot and I wash towels on hot. 

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1 minute ago, PeachyDoodle said:

And at the very least I'd teach kiddos to rinse their dishes and load into the dishwasher after they eat. Even most littles are capable of that. If not, have dd clear the table and ds load the dishwasher. Wouldn't take more than 5 minutes. 

I reminded them today but they forget and toss in sink 

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4 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I reminded them today but they forget and toss in sink 

Yes, reminding is part of training children. IME, the reminding usually has to go on for quite a long time before it sticks. Sometimes an extra incentive has to be added.

DD14 has a habit of dropping the bag she carries to crew practice in the chair in the kitchen instead of hanging it up on the hooks by the door (literally less than 5 feet away). I've "reminded" a lot and am getting sick of it, so last night I told her that she will have to start unpacking the bag, putting everything away, each night and repacking before practice each afternoon if she can't be bothered to hang the bag up. I'm willing to bet she remembers today.

Edited by PeachyDoodle
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