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I meant no offense with the example. It was my way of expressing the tone. He doesn’t normally say that but he has made remarks before about my moods near my cycle. 

I was not worried about him hitting ds — that’s a nasty expression “snitches get stitches.” 

Yes, I think there is a pattern where he doesn’t think I’m capable enough. 

The state fair is in town. I have never taken the children. I would skip the rides as Dh and I both have a distrust for fair rides. But they have food, games, and a petting zoo along with an ice skating rink (don’t ask me why lol). When I took the kids to a museum recently I saw where the fair was being set up. I thought in the middle of the day I felt safe. He told me not to take the kids. 

When else will we be able to access an ice rink in Mississippi?? I think he’s being paranoid. 

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A state fair is an entirely reasonable place to take kids.

Do you ask him before you do things like this because you need his permission to spend money? If I were going to take my kids to the state fair on a week day I would just do it, I don't need dh's permission and if I thought he might try to shoot down the idea I would not mention it in advance.

I think in the healthiest marriages spouses can discuss most anything with each other because responses can be expected to be reasonable and mostly supportive. That's the kind of marriage where most decisions can be mutual.

In my marriage it works best to not involve my husband in most decisions regarding stuff that I mostly take care of--like the children and the household.

I think you need to find a way to carve out some of that independence for yourself, you do not need him shooting down all your ideas, you shouldn't need his permission to take the kids to a fair.

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3 minutes ago, maize said:

A state fair is an entirely reasonable place to take kids.

Do you ask him before you do things like this because you need his permission to spend money? If I were going to take my kids to the state fair on a week day I would just do it, I don't need dh's permission and if I thought he might try to shoot down the idea I would not mention it in advance.

I think in the healthiest marriages spouses can discuss most anything with each other because responses can be expected to be reasonable and mostly supportive. That's the kind of marriage where most decisions can be mutual.

In my marriage it works best to not involve my husband in most decisions regarding stuff that I mostly take care of--like the children and the household.

I think you need to find a way to carve out some of that independence for yourself, you do not need him shooting down all your ideas, you shouldn't need his permission to take the kids to a fair.


This.
There are a couple of reasons to run something by your spouse:
1. budget
2. possibility he wants to go/date is flexible.

If it's not one of these things, I wouldn't even mention it until after the fact with a "and?" attitude. 

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1 minute ago, maize said:

A state fair is an entirely reasonable place to take kids.

Do you ask him before you do things like this because you need his permission to spend money? If I were going to take my kids to the state fair on a week day I would just do it, I don't need dh's permission and if I thought he might try to shoot down the idea I would not mention it in advance.

I think in the healthiest marriages spouses can discuss most anything with each other because responses can be expected to be reasonable and mostly supportive. That's the kind of marriage where most decisions can be mutual.

In my marriage it works best to not involve my husband in most decisions regarding stuff that I mostly take care of--like the children and the household.

I think you need to find a way to carve out some of that independence for yourself, you do not need him shooting down all your ideas, you shouldn't need his permission to take the kids to a fair.

I don’t remember why it came up. I shouldn’t have even mentioned it. Last Friday when I did the resume I had dd home from the sitter before Dh got here and dd didn’t say anything so I did not have to hear about that. But I was prepared to state that I had no choice as he was making it difficult to use the computer and so was she. 

If I said nothing and he found out we went he might get upset. He told me not to take the kids to the trampoline park when I mentioned that as an indoor activity (it was raining). I agree they can be dangerous but I was not particularly concerned the time I took dd. They have homeschool days ($10 per child for 2 hrs. I was going to let ds wear my socks. You have to wear their socks). 

I think he’s more anxious than me! I used to volunteer at another fair and go every year as a teen to eat and look at art. 

If you go during certain hours the rides aren’t even on. 

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1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

I meant no offense with the example. It was my way of expressing the tone. He doesn’t normally say that but he has made remarks before about my moods near my cycle. 

I was not worried about him hitting ds — that’s a nasty expression “snitches get stitches.” 

Yes, I think there is a pattern where he doesn’t think I’m capable enough. 

The state fair is in town. I have never taken the children. I would skip the rides as Dh and I both have a distrust for fair rides. But they have food, games, and a petting zoo along with an ice skating rink (don’t ask me why lol). When I took the kids to a museum recently I saw where the fair was being set up. I thought in the middle of the day I felt safe. He told me not to take the kids. 

When else will we be able to access an ice rink in Mississippi?? I think he’s being paranoid. 

hitting/physical is only ONE type of abuse.  please *do not* underestimate psychological, mental,  and emotional abuse.  your dh make threats as "jokes". to you, to your kids.  he is psychological, mentally, and emotionally abusive.  it can do a lot of damage, your kids think this is normal. 

that "nasty expression" . . . . is a threat.  

I thought was my grandmother was "normal" when I was growing up.  the things we were expected to do . . . . . As I became an adult, I realized she was gaslighting, mind games, demeaning, abusive, etc. etc.  I've spent my fare share of time in therapy - this last doing EMDR for cptsd. - and that was her as my grandmother! so it wasn't every day (frequently enough...)

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1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

I meant no offense with the example. It was my way of expressing the tone. He doesn’t normally say that but he has made remarks before about my moods near my cycle. 

I was not worried about him hitting ds — that’s a nasty expression “snitches get stitches.” 

Yes, I think there is a pattern where he doesn’t think I’m capable enough. 

The state fair is in town. I have never taken the children. I would skip the rides as Dh and I both have a distrust for fair rides. But they have food, games, and a petting zoo along with an ice skating rink (don’t ask me why lol). When I took the kids to a museum recently I saw where the fair was being set up. I thought in the middle of the day I felt safe. He told me not to take the kids. 

When else will we be able to access an ice rink in Mississippi?? I think he’s being paranoid. 

But was your DS worried? I mean, DH already hit him in the past week, when he wouldn't get up fast enough at the in laws. So he knows Dad is capable of violence, and WILL hit him if he's angry. So it seems totally rational from a kid point of view that DH might actually mean it if he threatens violence for telling mom something Dad did. Makes me wonder what else DS has been told not to tell you. And even if it is nothing, it's threatening behavior that to a kid seems real. 

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1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

I meant no offense with the example. It was my way of expressing the tone. He doesn’t normally say that but he has made remarks before about my moods near my cycle. 

I was not worried about him hitting ds — that’s a nasty expression “snitches get stitches.” 

Yes, I think there is a pattern where he doesn’t think I’m capable enough. 

The state fair is in town. I have never taken the children. I would skip the rides as Dh and I both have a distrust for fair rides. But they have food, games, and a petting zoo along with an ice skating rink (don’t ask me why lol). When I took the kids to a museum recently I saw where the fair was being set up. I thought in the middle of the day I felt safe. He told me not to take the kids. 

When else will we be able to access an ice rink in Mississippi?? I think he’s being paranoid. 

 

It’s not that you’re causing offense!  It’s that I’m worried that your sense of “normal” might be skewed by your husband’s shitty behavior and that could affect your decision making. You deserve to be respected in your home and in your family. 

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Yes, my sense of normal is probably skewed but I feel like I’m more supported these days by outsiders (you guys, the academy of pediatrics, etc). Dh just spanked dd. I got on his case and he said I should have discussed that in private. I said, “when? You never talk to me.” He said he had to discipline (she jumped on furniture) and I said there are other ways. He said I make no headway (I don’t care if he thinks that as spanking doesn’t make headway). 

A few days ago he claimed he only spanks dd about once a month. But we know it happened Friday & today (Sun). He also says it wasn’t a “real” spank, he “cupped his hand.” Well I heard it and it sounded real to me. 

Yeah I don’t think I need the kids living with this bully full time. 

Spanking aside, I just don’t like his demeanor. And we didn’t discuss discipline before we had kids. I was pregnant at our wedding. That’s part of the reason my dad said I may qualify for an annulment. Frame of mind may not have been the best. I know it sounds awful (and misguided!) but part of the reason I married him was fear of my kid being considered a “bastard.” 

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4 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

 

Spanking aside, I just don’t like his demeanor. And we didn’t discuss discipline before we had kids. I was pregnant at our wedding. That’s part of the reason my dad said I may qualify for an annulment. Frame of mind may not have been the best. I know it sounds awful (and misguided!) but part of the reason I married him was fear of my kid being considered a “bastard.” 

This was my situation as well, and yes, if you felt pressured into the wedding from fear of societal shame, etc then that is considered an impediment to true consent, and a reason for an annulment. It's why most priest won't marry a couple if the woman is pregnant - they worry she's mostly getting married to avoid judgment. You can't make a real decision like that. (obvious it turns out well sometimes, but it is very hard to figure out who would be getting married anyway and who is doing it mostly because of the baby)

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22 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

He was more sure than I was. He’d already bought & hidden an engagement ring before I found out I was expecting. 

Same with my ex. But both of you need to be 100 percent sure this is the right thing, that it will last forever, with no outside pressure confusing your ability to fully consent of your own free will (versus fear of society, etc). If not, then you do have grounds for an annulment. 

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1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Same with my ex. But both of you need to be 100 percent sure this is the right thing, that it will last forever, with no outside pressure confusing your ability to fully consent of your own free will (versus fear of society, etc). If not, then you do have grounds for an annulment. 

If I wasn’t pregnant I wouldn’t have been married at that time. It felt rushed. 

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2 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

 

Yeah I don’t think I need the kids living with this bully full time. 

Just be aware that if you do get divorced, for whatever percent of the time he has the kids, you will have absolutely no say in how he disciplines and no way of mitigating anything he says or does with the kids.  Right now he is present with them only for part of each week since he is working and going to school, he is not engaged with them for part of the time when he is at home, and you actively speak up or otherwise trying to mitigate his intercations with the kids that you feel are harmful to them.  He might well end up with more actual hands-on parenting time if you get a divorce than he really has now.  And if he chooses to spank them on a very regular basis, you won't have any recourse if that bothers you.  Some abusive men will deliberately discipline in ways or do things with the kids post-divorce that bother mom just to get back at her.  

There are no easy answers in these types of situations.  I think it's wise to be aware of the potential ramifications of each option you might choose while you're trying to make decisions for the future for you and your kids, because so much can go wrong any way you turn when dealing with an abuser.

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27 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

Just be aware that if you do get divorced, for whatever percent of the time he has the kids, you will have absolutely no say in how he disciplines and no way of mitigating anything he says or does with the kids.  Right now he is present with them only for part of each week since he is working and going to school, he is not engaged with them for part of the time when he is at home, and you actively speak up or otherwise trying to mitigate his intercations with the kids that you feel are harmful to them.  He might well end up with more actual hands-on parenting time if you get a divorce than he really has now.  And if he chooses to spank them on a very regular basis, you won't have any recourse if that bothers you.  Some abusive men will deliberately discipline in ways or do things with the kids post-divorce that bother mom just to get back at her.  

There are no easy answers in these types of situations.  I think it's wise to be aware of the potential ramifications of each option you might choose while you're trying to make decisions for the future for you and your kids, because so much can go wrong any way you turn when dealing with an abuser.

Yeah. I have no idea how much time he’d get with them/spend with them. 

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1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

If I wasn’t pregnant I wouldn’t have been married at that time. It felt rushed. 

Then that is definitely grounds for annulment. 

Which still leaves another zillion things to address logistically, but that is one less worry for you. 

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14 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Yeah. I have no idea how much time he’d get with them/spend with them. 

 

Just so you are aware, he will likely get shared custody. Nothing you have shared in this thread is compelling in terms of limiting his legal rights. He does not meet the legal parameters for child or spousal abuse. That means that custody will be an even 50/50 split.

I am not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV, so this is something to confirm with your lawyer.

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5 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

 

Just so you are aware, he will likely get shared custody. Nothing you have shared in this thread is compelling in terms of limiting his legal rights. He does not meet the legal parameters for child or spousal abuse. That means that custody will be an even 50/50 split.

 

On what and from where are you basing this?

Mississippi doesn’t seem to be a state where joint custody is automatically imposed on divorcing couples by judge.  

 It’s available only if it’s requested by the divorcing couple.  

At least that’s what the PDF said iirc

????

5 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

I am not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV, so this is something to confirm with your lawyer.

 

 

Not sure that playing lawyer on TV is relevant.

 

@heartlikealion do ask lawyer about Mississippi custody law and typical reality of what happens

I don’t think to “confirm” what Harriet Vane wrote is a good idea because I think it’s misleading and confusing to start with a very likely erroneous view.  Better to imo to just ask what Is the law and practice there.

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1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

On what and from where are you basing this?

Mississippi doesn’t seem to be a state where joint custody is automatically imposed on divorcing couples by judge.  

 It’s available only if it’s requested by the divorcing couple.  

At least that’s what the PDF said iirc

????

 

 

Not sure that playing lawyer on TV is relevant.

 

@heartlikealion do ask lawyer about Mississippi custody law and typical reality of what happens

I don’t think to “confirm” what Harriet Vane wrote is a good idea because I think it’s misleading and confusing to start with a very likely erroneous view.  Better to imo to just ask what Is the law and practice there.

Harriet is basing it on what she thinks,  just like everyone else here on this thread does.  She is recommending asking the lawyer for specifics regarding Heart’s situation and state law. 

The line about “not playing one in tv” is part of a very common phrase. You are no more or less qualified to give Heart advice than Harriet. 

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5 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

 

Just so you are aware, he will likely get shared custody. Nothing you have shared in this thread is compelling in terms of limiting his legal rights. He does not meet the legal parameters for child or spousal abuse. That means that custody will be an even 50/50 split.

I am not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV, so this is something to confirm with your lawyer.

 

4 hours ago, Pen said:

 

On what and from where are you basing this?

Mississippi doesn’t seem to be a state where joint custody is automatically imposed on divorcing couples by judge.  

 It’s available only if it’s requested by the divorcing couple.  

At least that’s what the PDF said iirc

????

 

 

Not sure that playing lawyer on TV is relevant.

 

@heartlikealion do ask lawyer about Mississippi custody law and typical reality of what happens

I don’t think to “confirm” what Harriet Vane wrote is a good idea because I think it’s misleading and confusing to start with a very likely erroneous view.  Better to imo to just ask what Is the law and practice there.

I agree Heart needs to talk to an attorney who is familiar with what is common practice in her county.  It is more and more the standard that custody time is shared 50/50.  That is why I said early in this thread that Heart needs to be prepared for that possibility. Maybe her husband won't even seek that....maybe the two of them will work out an acceptable to them custody and visitation schedule that gives more time to Heart.  But shared time is pretty much the standard these days if desired.

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4 hours ago, Pen said:

 

On what and from where are you basing this?

Not sure that playing lawyer on TV is relevant.

 

I am a foster parent with many years of experience with the foster system. I have direct personal experience helping victims of domestic violence get on their feet. I have close relatives who have dealt with divorce and custody issues, and I have a close friend who had a really, really ugly divorce that included abuse, substance abuse, and mental illness. I helped that friend extensively through the legal process. I have been with these dear ones at court and I have advocated for them and I have helped with the paperwork and logistics. My personal experience with family law in three different states through these situations (I lived in two different states, and my sister is in a third state) informed my opinion about possible outcome.

The line about playing a lawyer on TV is a commonly used joke based on old commercials of TV actors who played either a doctor or a lawyer on TV. In the commercial the actor would clarify that he/she is not a lawyer/doctor, but does play one on TV, and then the actor goes on to recommend a product or a service to purchase. It was simply my way of saying that despite my personal experience, I am not a professional and am not claiming to be one.

Not sure why you singled out my post. Heart is considering a serious step, and it's vital that she carefully think through all the possible ramifications before she commit to one path or another. Others in the thread also mentioned the possibility that her husband would have more time with the kids that Heart cannot mitigate in any way. It is a serious consideration.

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Also, even though people keep telling her to document and that this and that is abusive, I can nearly guarantee any fight for custody would not end well.  Nothing he has done will be  seen as reason to keep him from the kids.  There are literally kids being born with drugs in their system, sexually abused by parents, starved, beaten or totally neglected.  I know it is a harsh reality but kids don't get perfect parents.  And he will be their father until the end of their lives....nothing will change that.  So trying to legally keep him from them will be seen as alienating. 

I believe Heart's best best is to become fully informed about the likely legal outcome and then work to achieve that peaceably.  And also, there is the chance that he will decide to put some effort into saving his marriage once he discovers Heart is serious about divorcing him.  Best case would be to have a good marriage with the father of her children.

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48 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

 

I am a foster parent with many years of experience with the foster system. I have direct personal experience helping victims of domestic violence get on their feet. I have close relatives who have dealt with divorce and custody issues, and I have a close friend who had a really, really ugly divorce that included abuse, substance abuse, and mental illness. I helped that friend extensively through the legal process. I have been with these dear ones at court and I have advocated for them and I have helped with the paperwork and logistics. My personal experience with family law in three different states through these situations (I lived in two different states, and my sister is in a third state) informed my opinion about possible outcome.

The line about playing a lawyer on TV is a commonly used joke based on old commercials of TV actors who played either a doctor or a lawyer on TV. In the commercial the actor would clarify that he/she is not a lawyer/doctor, but does play one on TV, and then the actor goes on to recommend a product or a service to purchase. It was simply my way of saying that despite my personal experience, I am not a professional and am not claiming to be one.

Not sure why you singled out my post. Heart is considering a serious step, and it's vital that she carefully think through all the possible ramifications before she commit to one path or another. Others in the thread also mentioned the possibility that her husband would have more time with the kids that Heart cannot mitigate in any way. It is a serious consideration.

 

Thank you for clarifying.

I wasn’t aware of that expression about playing lawyer on TV

 

I also have been a foster parent.  

I graduated from law school — which included a family law course.  But I have been disabled and not practiced law for many years, and never practiced in a family law area, nor in Mississippi.  (Nor even in a close field or state.) 

Your experience may well be much more current and relevant than mine.

 

(Singling Out because most people wrote about personal experience or friend’s experience. In contrast, to me your post sounded very much like a statement that you pretty much know for sure that it will almost certainly be a joint custody arrangement— with just a bit of a “but confirm with a lawyer” caveat in a jokey that you don’t play a lawyer on TV way.     And your statement that seemed to me to indicate that you know it in a near all but certain way and needs only be “confirmed”  did not match with what I’d found when I had tried to look up the law for Mississippi.)

 

some references to look at for Mississippi law in a post below

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22 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

 

I was not worried about him hitting ds — that’s a nasty expression “snitches get stitches.” 

 

Even if he didn't hit your ds or didn't intend to, statements like that, especially if they're common, are teaching him not to report abuse.

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On 10/6/2019 at 7:20 AM, heartlikealion said:

 

He throws my drugs in my face sometimes like a, “are you on your period?” type comment. “Have you taken your pills today?” It’s true I’m more prone to snippiness without them but I fear he deflects from his own bad behavior or the topic at hand by pointing out my flaws. I’m the crazy one. I’m the problem. Kwim? 

 

22 hours ago, Danae said:

 

You use this as a causal example, but I want to stick a flag on it. The only reasons a considerate man would be asking about your period are for planning sexual activities or offering to pick up supplies/chocolate if he’s going to the store. Maybe inquiring if a camping trip or festival involving port-a-potties would be ill-timed. If he throws that at you to insinuate you’re being moody or irrational that is NOT normal. It’s stereotype jerk behavior, not what you should expect from a loving relationship.

Piggybacking on Danae's comment: The only reason a considerate partner would be asking if you took your meds should be in a caring, I love you and worry about you sort of way, and maybe if the partner is normally forgetful about taking meds. He should not be using your mental health as a weapon. 

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https://www.msbar.org/media/2375/gal-disc-3-mississippi-law-on-custody-and-visitation.pdf

@heartlikealion might be good to read the above from your own state— and other documents like it—rather than rely on our various personal beliefs

You might also find Deborah Bell’s book on Mississippi state family law at a Library.  I gather it’s the primary Family Law book for Mississippi.  

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Some relevant discussion from the Mississippi bar document linked above:


[3] Presumption in favor of joint custody upon request. If both parents request joint custody, it is presumed that joint custody is in the best interests of the child.
2
Determining custody: the Albright analysis
[1] The factors. In Albright v. Albright, 437 So. 2d 1003 (Miss. 1983), the Mississippi Supreme Court abandoned the maternal preference, holding that a child’s age is but one of several factors for consideration in a custody award. The court stated, “the polestar consideration in child custody cases is the best interest and welfare of the child.” The court set out twelve factors for courts to weigh in awarding custody:
• the age, health and sex of a child
• which parent had continuing care of the child prior to separation
• which parent has the best parenting skills
• which has the willingness and capacity to provide primary child care
• the employment responsibilities of both parents
• the physical and mental health and age of parents
• emotional ties of the parent and child
• the parents’ moral fitness
• the child’s home, school and community record
• the preference of a child at the age of twelve
• stability of the home environment and employment of each parent
• and other relevant factors
The Albright factors guide chancellors in reviewing evidence relevant to custody. They are not, as the supreme court has noted, a mathematical formula. Although
3

chancellors are instructed to weigh parents’ relative merits under each factor, a parent who “wins” on more factors is not necessarily entitled to custody. In some cases, one or two factors may control an award. See Divers v. Divers, 856 So. 2d 370, 3765 (Miss. Ct. App. 2003) (one factor may weigh so heavily that it controls award). Furthermore, a chancellor’s ultimate decision is guided by additional considerations – the credibility of witnesses, the weight of their testimony, and the weighing of evidence capable of more than one interpretation. Johnson v. Gray, 859 So. 2d 1006, 1013-14 (Miss. 2003) (chancellor has ultimate discretion to weigh evidence).
The list is not exhaustive – courts may consider other relevant factors. If the presumption against custody to a violent parent is raised and not rebutted, custody should be awarded to the non-violent parent. An Albright analysis is not required.
[2] Other relevant factors
[a] Separation of siblings. There is a strong preference in Mississippi law for keeping siblings together unless unusual circumstances justify their separation. See Sellers v. Sellers, 638 So. 2d 481, 484 (Miss. 1994) (no separation of siblings in the absence of some unusual and compelling circumstance dictating otherwise). The preference, which predates Albright, continues to be recognized as an important consideration in custody decisions. For example, the court of appeals reversed an order separating eleven- and twelve-year-old sisters; one daughter’s slightly greater attachment to her mother did not justify their separation. See Sootin v. Sootin, 737 So. 2d 1022, 1026-278 (Miss. Ct. App. 1998). However, the preference should be overridden if it would place a child in danger or in adverse circumstances. See Carson v. Natchez
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Children’s Home, 580 So. 2d 1248, 1258 (Miss. 1991) (no error to separate siblings where both had been sexually abused and acted out sexually together).
Parental interference. In several cases, custody has been denied to a parent based on interference with the other parent’s relationship with a child. See Ferguson v. Ferguson, 639 So. 2d 921, 932 (Miss. 1994) (father belittled mother and encouraged child to disobey her); see also Mabus v. Mabus, 890 So. 2d 806, 818 (Miss. 2003) (mother’s interference with children’s relationship with father one reason supporting award of legal custody to father); Masino v. Masino, 829 So. 2d 1267, 1271 (Miss. Ct. App. 2002) (interference and failure to attend parenting classes as ordered negated tender years factor).
In a 2006 case, the court of appeals affirmed modification of custody based on expert testimony that a mother’s interference and daughter’s attitude toward her father reflected parental alienation syndrome. Two experts testified that the mother’s conduct had resulted in the child’s alienation from her father. They stated that the girl suffered from depression, showed an excessive dependency on her mother, and exhibited a “shallow” animosity toward her father and his relatives without being able to explain why – conduct described as consistent with parental alienation syndrome. The case was the first to discuss the syndrome in detail. See Ellis v. Ellis, 952 So. 2d 982, 997 (Miss. Ct. App. 2006).


II. Joint custody
Parents may also be awarded joint legal or joint physical custody, or both. Joint legal custody gives the parties shared decision-making authority with regard to a child’s health, education, and welfare. Parents who share joint legal custody are obligated by
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statute to exchange information related to the child and to confer with each other in making decisions. MISS. CODE ANN. § 93-5-24 (5)(e) (2004). Parents must confer regarding a child’s education, activities, medical and psychological care, religious training, discipline, and summer activities.
Joint physical custody allows each parent to have significant, although not necessarily equal, time with a child. Joint physical custody may be structured in a variety of ways. Time with a child may be divided in any number of ways -- on a weekly basis or by alternating weeks, months, half-years, or years. See Elliott v. Elliott, 877 So. 2d 450, 452 (Miss. Ct. App. 2003) (custody to mother three days a week and twenty-four weekends; father two days a week and twenty-eight weekends); Mercier v. Mercier, 717 So. 2d 304, 305 (Miss. 1998) (alternating every other week); Morrow v. Morrow, 591 So. 2d 829, 830 (Miss. 1991) (alternating custody of school age child every two years); Daniel v. Daniel, 770 So. 2d 562, 567 (Miss. Ct. App. 2000) (alternating every two weeks); McKree v. McKree, 723 So. 2d 1217, 1218 (Miss. Ct. App. 1998) (alternating months with reasonable visitation during month).
As in any custody action, a court should consider the Albright factors in making an award of joint custody. No precise test has been articulated to determine when an award of joint rather than sole custody is appropriate. Certainly, however, both parents should be fit custodians for joint custody to be awarded. And ability to cooperate is an important consideration in an award of joint custody. Proximity is also important. As a general rule, joint physical custody is feasible only if the parties live in close proximity. However, parents may share joint legal custody at a distance. The importance of
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proximity in joint physical custody is reflected in the fact that appellate courts routinely affirm modification of joint physical custody when one parent moves

...”

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Pen said:

https://www.msbar.org/media/2375/gal-disc-3-mississippi-law-on-custody-and-visitation.pdf

@heartlikealion might be good to read the above from your own state— and other documents like it—rather than rely on our various personal beliefs

You might also find Deborah Bell’s book on Mississippi state family law at a Library.  I gather it’s the primary Family Law book for Mississippi.  

quoted from above link...."Parental equality. It is presumed that mothers and fathers are equally entitled to custody of their children. In 1983, the Mississippi Supreme Court replaced the maternal preference with a presumption of parental equality".

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6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

quoted from above link...."Parental equality. It is presumed that mothers and fathers are equally entitled to custody of their children. In 1983, the Mississippi Supreme Court replaced the maternal preference with a presumption of parental equality".

 

That meant children aren’t any longer automatically placed in Mother’s custody in a divorce absent a showing that the mother isn’t fit iirc.  

It doesn’t automatically mean they are put in joint custody.  

They could be in Mother’s custody

or Father’s

or

joint .  

Further, Custody is split between

“legal custody” and

“physical custody” 

which can be the same or different.  

And all is supposed to be best interests of child, (not parental rights) based—afaik. 

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7 minutes ago, Pen said:

In general Mississippi seems to be a state that is a bit “ol fashion” generally in ways to me that seem to favor men over women.  But a bit of the ol fashion might help mom?

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2018/11/19/gender-bias-against-men-mississippi-child-custody-cases-ms/1999155002/

I am not sure what you were trying to show with the above article. It was a father who had a domestic abuse charge against him in the past, and who went two years with out trying to see or check on his kids....That is not Heart's situation at all.

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3 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

That meant children aren’t any longer automatically placed in Mother’s custody in a divorce absent a showing that the mother isn’t fit iirc.  

It doesn’t automatically mean they are put in joint custody.  

They could be in Mother’s custody

or Father’s

or

joint .  

Further, Custody is split between

“legal custody” and

“physical custody” 

which can be the same or different.  

And all is supposed to be best interests of child, (not parental rights) based—afaik. 

Yes, I know.  But the default is that both parents have equal rights.

 

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I guess I still don’t understand how the heck you get 50/50 custody. I guess that assumes parents both live near the children’s school?? 

My friend that works in a lawyer’s office has had custody situations in her life and said her spouse’s child’s mother got main custody even though she’s not really fit. She told me they usually favor the mom. She said it would have to be pretty extreme to lean the other way here. /shrug 

lately I’m just trying to think it all through and how maybe breaking up the family isn’t really the best but it’s also hard to imagine continuing in a toxic environment. I’m really trying to just not get down about it. Today is my birthday. I’m going fabric shopping for my sewing class now. I assigned ds some school work. 

You guys are right summers would be hard if I was working. However I would consider the camps at the Catholic school. They cover most of the summer. Ds may age out soon though. They said if I worked there I’d get them into the camps free. That’s the only reason I know they exist. 

I started the Freedom program. 

Attorney called while I was typing. I don’t have enough grounds for divorce under their grant. And it doesn’t matter if he punched a hole or busted a latch on the door of it was long ago. They said that’s considered condination (?) - forgiveness since I stayed. 

If he was on board she could send papers for an irreconcilable differences divorce and he’d have to sign within a month and agree to 100% which is like a 50/50 split I think. Or whatever we offered? 

And if I tried to get a divorce with another section of legal services (free) they wouldn’t even look at my case til I’d been separated 6 months! 

She can’t represent me as long as we live together and says I don’t have grounds. What they need is very specific and basically he can hit the kids but not me. She asked how hard he hit, if he left bruises. Said I’d need a witness to testify to things, too. 

So basically I guess I’m just gonna have to make this work or file for divorce in the future and pay out of pocket. She couldn’t even tell me if another lawyer would let me get a divorce. She said it depends if the lawyer would take your case. 

She said it’s hard to get a divorce in MS. 

(Also she confirmed he’d owe 20% of adjusted gross income if we divorced) 

If it was abuse it is called habitual cruel/inhumane treatment. You have to prove it and how it affects you physically and/or mentally. 

Edited by heartlikealion
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5 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I guess I still don’t understand how the heck you get 50/50 custody. I guess that assumes parents both live near the children’s school?? 

 

It is usually ordered that both parents remain in the school district.  Not all parents want to split time 50/50 though.  Some think it is better for the kids to stay with one parent more of the time.

 

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6 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

 

If he was on board she could send papers for an irreconcilable differences he’d had to sign within a month and agree to 100% which is like a 50/50 split I think. Or whatever we offered? 

And if I tried to get a divorce with another section of legal services (free) they wouldn’t even look at my case til I’d been separated 6 months! 

She can’t represent me as long as we live together and says I don’t have grounds. What they need is very specific and basically he can hit the kids but not me. She asked how hard he hit, if he left bruises. Said I’d need a witness to testify to things, too. 

So basically I guess I’m just gonna have to make this work or duke fir divorce in the future and pay out of pocket. She couldn’t even tell me if another lawyer would let me get a divorce. She said it depends of the lawyer would take your case. 

She said it’s hard to get a divorce in MS. 

What does the bolded mean?  

And lots of places make it difficult to get a divorce if one spouse is fighting it.  If nothing else just dragging it out.  

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2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

What does the bolded mean?  

And lots of places make it difficult to get a divorce if one spouse is fighting it.  If nothing else just dragging it out.  

If she wrote up papers for divorce under the category irreconcilable differences then he’d have to agree to the terms completely to file. And sign off on them within a month of receiving them. 

I’m done. There’s nothing else to do here. Not right now, anyway.  

Yeah disassociate is easier said than done. 

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1 minute ago, heartlikealion said:

If she wrote up papers for divorce under the category irreconcilable differences then he’d have to agree to the terms completely to file. And sign off on them within a month of receiving them. 

I’m done. There’s nothing else to do here. Not right now, anyway.  

Yeah disassociate is easier said than done. 

Oh I see.  Well that is basically what I have been telling you all along.....that if you really want a divorce you should work on getting the two of you to agree to the terms.  But usually that is not so easy to do with a spouse who is so hard to get along with you want to divorce.  

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Just now, heartlikealion said:

I’m trying to look on the bright side. If I stay home and homeschool I can continue to spend time with the kids. If I get a job we can move closer to the city and a better school district. 

I will work on saving money each month. 

That is what I did.  And there is a lot of value in that.  

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Heart, you're not done. I know you are discouraged, but you've got a lot more information than you had before and a better idea of what your options look like. You've updated your resume and completed some job applications. You've made excellent progress in a few days.

Keep working on the employment front; work on building a life for yourself that does not depend on or revolve around your dh.

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I meant I’m done pursuing a divorce atm. I’m not giving up on making a nest egg or such. 

Ds made my day today. I told him if I got a job he’d have to go back to public school but I’d get him in a better school district. I asked how he felt. He said he thinks he learns more at home but he likes the prospect of a good education at a better B&M school than the one he attended.

my inlaws didn’t acknowledge my birthday which is a bit weird. Maybe they have had enough of me /shrug 

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Do you have to get a divorce to leave? If he continues to be abusive just take the kids and leave. The state can make it hard to get a divorce but they cannot force you to live with him. Obviously leaving would be easier if you had a job and/or some money saved up or some supportive friend or family that could take you in. But please don't resign yourself to just putting up with his abuse.

Susan in TX

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I suppose technically you don’t? But then it could turn into a thing where he takes the kids back? And so forth. The kids still love him and want to be around him a good portion of the time. And I have no money for an apartment. 

He’s not a cartoon villain that is evil all day. 

Amazon prime automatically renewed today 😬 Inlaws did not offer to pay this time. And our car tags are due this month.

despite that, I’ll probably take the kids to the fair Wed. I got some birthday money I’ll use if necessary.  Admission and parking is free before 1 pm. We could go visit the eye dr while we’re out to get the lenses painted for dd (at her VT office she said we could swing by for the polish on the new lenses). And maybe drop off my CAARS form while I’m out. 

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34 minutes ago, Susan in TX said:

Do you have to get a divorce to leave? If he continues to be abusive just take the kids and leave. The state can make it hard to get a divorce but they cannot force you to live with him. Obviously leaving would be easier if you had a job and/or some money saved up or some supportive friend or family that could take you in. But please don't resign yourself to just putting up with his abuse.

Susan in TX

I think she said MS doesn't recognize legal separation.  that makes it harder to separate finances so she's not liable for his debts and expenses.

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Please, please, please do not just resign yourself to this life. My sisters and I thought much of our life growing up was normal. We honestly thought that the normal, happy families were only on TV and not something real. (It still confounds me, as an adult, that many families like each other and get along with each other.) We still wanted to spend time with our abusive father, but we did have to be careful about it. Anything to keep him away from the home was good because he couldn't lose it in public. We had lots of time spent at hockey games, baseball games, movies, and air shows because home was bad. It doesn't mean that all three of us don't still to this day suffer from what did happen, despite not being physically abused.

I'm not saying that your family life is the same as mine growing up or that you will cause irreparable harm to your children by staying, but I am saying to consider other options.

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