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Explain to me size 12 vs. 14 boys please!!


PeterPan
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So I bought my ds size 12 carters pants, and they fit great. They go down below his ankles, have room to grow, fine. I ordered him some size 12 long sleeve shirts, washed one in just the normal way, and the sleeves are barely long enough! And the size 12 coat I ordered, same gig, with the sleeves literally just the right length. He grew an inch this summer, but he should theoretically grow again around his b-day or after Christmas. How are these supposed to fit???

So I tried a size 14 coat on him at the store (Carters) and the thing was WIDE, huge, swimming in the trunk. He's 75th percentile for height but usually only 25th-50th percentile for weight. And I think maybe his torso is a bit longer than his legs anyway as far as normal proportions, because he used to outgrow onesies before he outgrew the corresponding pant size.

I have some size 14 short sleeve shirts I ordered (clearance) and the matching size 12 (also clearance), both unwashed, and it looks like the 14 is wider but no longer. Am I crazy here?? Will the 14 sleeves be longer or is it only that the torso gets wider???

Do boys who are skinny go from a 12 to some other size and skip 14? Is 14 considered chunky??? That's why I always went with Carters, because with their adjustable waists I could make things fit, lol. Now I don't know what I'm looking at. What is going on here??

 

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I don’t know.  I laid out the 10, 12 and 14s in the exact same pants last week at Target when school shopping for my tall almost 11 year old and there was basically no difference between 10 and 12 and then 14 was huge.  These sizes are arbitrary and weird.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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I've been having this problem with size 10.  It took me forever to find size 10 shirts that weren't ridiculously wide for my ds.  The shirts I ended up finding were from Old Navy, which I hate the quality of their cloths.  But they were on clearance for $2 so I just sucked it up and bought more than usual because I know they won't last until spring

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Honestly, I don't think there is any standard to sizing across brands or even styles within the same brand.  Within the same style, there is "usually" some regularity but quality control is so poor, it wouldn't surprise me in the slitest to find problems there too. I've also found it pretty common to have my boys be one size on top and a different size on bottom.  It really sucks but the only sure fire way I've found to outfit them is to just keep on trying things till you find something that fits.  

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I hear you. For length to be correct my dd looks like a scarecrow.

i measured him for his trail life uniform. He would wear a size8 in the waist and a size 12 in length. If I bought the correct length he would have had 6 inches extra material in the waist. Dh said buy him the long enough pants and get him some suspenders!

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My kids switched to adults small for shirts and coats since they were 13. They don’t buy pants so I don’t know what would fit. They buy slim/skinny fit boys jeans from the outlet stores of Abercrombie kids, Levi’s, Children’s Place, Joe’s when they were wearing kids sizes. 

Dockers white dress shirts for boys came in slightly baggy when my kids needed recital clothes. That was the slimmest cut we could find off the rack last minute. 

ETA:

DS14’s waist is a 23”. He wears a belt for skinny jeans.

Edited by Arcadia
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1 minute ago, Arctic Mama said:

10-12 is a large and 14-16 is extra large.  Generally they assume kids who need an extra large need some additional width too, which isn’t always the case.  But often it is.  Carters is also a bit random on cut compared to say, Lands End.

Ok, so is 12 the jump point and then they go to adult clothing? 

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It's a form of BCM syndrome = men's jackets that are huge around, with short sleeves that only reach halfway down from elbow to wrist.

It's a term I coined when trying to find second-hand nice jackets for an event that teen DSs were attending. They were shooting up fast and toothpick thin, so no way I was investing in buying new suits that would be worn once. As we scoured the racks for something that might roughly fit, and kept coming up with these jackets wide enough to for three teens to swim in, but sleeves that left their forearms uncovered, I snapped in annoyance and loudly said, "What's the deal?! Do they only make jackets to fit Barrel Chested Midgets?!!" 😂

That's when I embarrassedly realized there was a man nearby who heard; he startled, and then tried to suppress a smile, and DSs collapsed in laughter.

So, BCM syndrome strikes size 14 boys jeans too, apparently. Except maybe it's a variant strain -- CSLWW syndrome: Cursedly Short Legged with Wide Waist syndrome. 😂

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1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

I hear you. For length to be correct my dd looks like a scarecrow.

i measured him for his trail life uniform. He would wear a size8 in the waist and a size 12 in length. If I bought the correct length he would have had 6 inches extra material in the waist. Dh said buy him the long enough pants and get him some suspenders!


Oh my goodness, I remember those days! There was one year where DS#2 had that identical issue and for that year, pretty much lived in sweat pants with elastic waist because I just could not find anything else that would stay up AND reach his ankles. 😫

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1 hour ago, cjzimmer1 said:

Honestly, I don't think there is any standard to sizing across brands or even styles within the same brand.  Within the same style, there is "usually" some regularity but quality control is so poor, it wouldn't surprise me in the slitest to find problems there too. I've also found it pretty common to have my boys be one size on top and a different size on bottom.  It really sucks but the only sure fire way I've found to outfit them is to just keep on trying things till you find something that fits.  

So much this. Since I hate shopping and my husband can be hard to fit (quite slim), we both like to find things we like and then order lots of multiples in different colors. Especially in pants, we’ve found radical differences in fit for the exact same brand and style of pants, just a different color. It’s almost laughable how big the differences can sometimes be. And now that everything has reviews online, I know I’m not imagining things or they just mixed up tags.

I once read a post from a clothes buyer and she said because Americans are still used to paying so little for clothing they have to keep constantly outsourcing to cheaper and cheaper manufacturers and using cheaper materials. So similar pants or even the same pants in different colors are not necessarily made in the same place.

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My older son mostly made the jump from kids to adult sizes when he was about to turn 14.  He was very long and very lean at that point and finding stuff that was long enough in the arms and legs without being too loose/baggy was quite an ordeal.  That was the summer I became very familiar with online ordering for him.  Most of the sizes he needed were not stocked in stores.  That is pretty much still the case but he does all his own clothing shopping now.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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If you have Marshall’s nearby, the ones that says imperfect on the price tags are usually “too long” which is great for my kids because those are slimmer than slim cut and I get to pay less too. I don’t have the luck with finding imperfects at TJMaxx. Usually it is tops but I also found a few pants that way. 

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My son is still wearing his size 12 pants and just bought a few new ones even though many are about an inch short right now because he's skinny.  He recently started doing airsoft, there was nothing in shirts that fit him to buy a camo shirt, we found size 12 camo pants, he ended up wearing a camouflage shirt my husband had originally bought for me, female adult small or medium, I forget which.  It is slightly big on him but not huge and crazy like some of the size 14s. 

He is also wearing my boots from when I was in the Air Force!!  I had to reassure him several times that the boots were mens boots, not womens boots.  He had no qualms about the shirt even though the logo is pink, LOL.  I didn't mention the logo color to him, perhaps he thinks it is red, it is a darker pink.  He probably could have fit into my old uniforms but I passed them along to friends in the Air Force. 

Edited by ElizabethB
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2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Oh my, he's a 14S or 16S in lands end for height but not nearly there in weight, even in the slim, lol. The Carters pants are generous but fit him beautifully.

 

I believe that all Lands' End kids pants have the adjustable elastic in the waist. That helps a lot.  

My super skinny, tall kid lived mostly in knit pants (like sweats, but without the elastic in the ankle); they have elastic waist with a drawstring for cinching. Gymboree was a good place at the time for those.  For pants and jeans, I was able to get 14S, 16S, and even 18S at JCPenney.  (They had them at Sears, too, but that's no more).  

Eventually, when the 18S became too hard to find, or too short, he graduated to 28X34 pants and jeans.  These are only available online, from American Eagle.  I was so glad when he could finally wear a 29 inch waist.  The whole world opens up at that point.

Edited by Suzanne in ABQ
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We faced that same difficult size issue when my boys were that age.

We have just jumped up to to mostly men's clothing over this past year, as they reached 100 lbs and around 5'3" or so. They are a little taller now than that, but that is when we had to switch. I hated to give up boys' clothing, because it's cheaper than the men's. Also, men's pants don't come with elastic adjustable waist straps.

My two boys are both slim looking but with very different builds. DS14 is bigger boned and has wider hips. DS15 is skinny all over.

DS14 was wearing boys' 18 jeans around age 12. Then they got too short, and he had to switch up to men's this past spring. He needs 28" waist, which is hard to find, and 30" length. I've been able to find some at Old Navy, Kohl's, and Target, but we have to hunt the racks for that size. They don't stock many of them. He will wear a belt if needed.

DS15 is super slim. He likes skinny style jeans. I found I can order them for him from Gap and get a skinny style in a slim fit in a size 16, and they still come with an elastic waist band, which we cinch in. I might be able to order from Old Navy, as well, but Gap is where I first found some for him. The Gap boys jeans go up to size 18, so even if DS grows more, we should be able to keep him in boys' jeans for a bit longer.  He refuses to wear a belt. I couldn't find the size 16 skinnys in the store, but I could order them online.

So for slim and shorter boys, try Gap or Old Navy skinny fit, and keep them in them until they grow out of the size 18s.

I don't know what we will do when that solution won't work for us any more. I think the very smallest size men's jeans I have ever found were a 26" waist, and they are too big for DS15. And they were like a miracle pair that normally I would never see on the shelf. I don't know if he will ever reach a 28" even when he is fully grown.

For shirts, my boys can now wear a small men's t-shirt and sometimes prefer to wear them baggier and get a medium. They like medium men's hoodies. They still need XS men's winter jackets, and even those don't fit well yet. The XXL boys' coats sometimes are too wide.

Anyway, @PeterPan, I think you can hunt for size 12s and 14s still, instead of switching to men's sizes right now. It's just a weird, tricky size. The 12s are usually 10-12s and are really 10s. The jump from a 10 to a 14 is a big and awkward one. I was able to find things, but I had to hunt. I usually would shop at Target or the resale shops. Occasionally WalMart. I didn't start looking at Old Navy until my kids were teens and needed some adult sizes for sure.

Edited by Storygirl
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7 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

I think the very smallest size men's jeans I have ever found were a 26' waist, and they are too big for DS15. And they were like a miracle pair that normally I would never see on the shelf. I don't know if he will ever reach a 28" even when he is fully grown.

 

We have bought high waist skinny jeans 27” waist and it becomes sits below waist jeans for DS14 last year. That was how it didn’t appear too short on him. Now he use a belt because it’s impossible to cater to a 23” waist and 30/32” inseam.

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These in between sizes are tricky. If you are willing to spend a million dollars as he grows in the next year or two, I recently found pants that actually fit my son who is hard to fit. The Buckle carries down to a 25 inch waist and extra long. I wish I had bought some there for Ds last year. 27 x 32's are hard to find and too loose and short for Ds.

He is long bodied and Adult S shirts at Old Navy have worked for him since he outgrew size 14 stuff (which always had too short sleeves anyhow).

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When one of mine was little, their size 4 was on the smallish side of fitting, so I got some size 5....which were giant.  When I went back and got more 4s, they were the size that I expected the original 5s to be.  From one year to the next, that line of clothing was off by a whole size.  And, in boys especially, there are years when the only difference seems to be width...which isn't helpful for tall, skinny kids.  We're about to run into that problem now that the boy is in the men's dept - track pants get wider much faster than they get taller, unlike my kid.  

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For a formal event that my three teen boys attended last year, I had to find matching (same color) suit coats and pants, along with a dress shirt/tie that looked nice, dress shoes, and dress socks. All three were in that no man's land of sizing.  My total budget for all of them was $100, more or less, hopefully less.  We hit every resale shop in two cities in two states.

I am firmly convinced that it was one of the circles of Hades mentioned in the Inferno.  Really, truly convinced.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Zoo Keeper
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4 hours ago, Suzanne in ABQ said:

 

I believe that all Lands' End kids pants have the adjustable elastic in the waist. That helps a lot.  

My super skinny, tall kid lived mostly in knit pants (like sweats, but without the elastic in the ankle); they have elastic waist with a drawstring for cinching. Gymboree was a good place at the time for those.  For pants and jeans, I was able to get 14S, 16S, and even 18S at JCPenney.  (They had them at Sears, too, but that's no more).  

Eventually, when the 18S became too hard to find, or too short, he graduated to 28X34 pants and jeans.  These are only available online, from American Eagle.  I was so glad when he could finally wear a 29 inch waist.  The whole world opens up at that point.

Ooo, that's interesting. Hadn't thought to look at JCP. I like to get them all one kind, one place, done, definitely only. And keeping him in a slim through 16 or 18 would make a ton of sense you're right.

I almost think my dh was a 28" waist when we got married, haha. He was really trim. And like 28, haha. We solved that pretty quickly.

Well I measured some Carters 14 lined pants that I found on clearance, and they're an inch longer than the size 12 pants with maybe 1" bigger waist. So I think the size 14 will work next. I tried some more size 12 shirts on him, and they were fine. So maybe it really was that one shirt, I don't know. 

4 hours ago, Meriwether said:

The Buckle carries down to a 25 inch waist and extra long.

I'll check it out! I already buy a stupid amount because ds gets cold. So he has regular pants, lined pants, fleece pants, pjs for every day of the week for 3 seasons (I kid you not). It's ridiculous. And my shirts are plain and have holes, haha.

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JCPenney has slim jeans up to 16Ss ... maybe even the rare 18s.

Lands' End has the dimensions *of the item* on their website. Look under the "Fit & Size" tab.   It's the first text at the top of that tab.... a small link that says "Item dimensions".   It was the only way I could figure out the difference between 12S, 12, 14S, 14, Young Men's 27", 16s, blah, blah, blah.

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Ugh, this thread is exactly where we were for the last two years. Now my boys can finally wear the smallest adult sizes and clothes make at least vague sense again. The pre-teen/early teen boy sizes are downright bonkers. I know boys grow at a really weird rate between age 10-15, but it shouldn't have to be this difficult to understand the sizes.

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I wish every damn thing for my boys was sized like men’s pants and dress shirts...

waist x inseam with various fits from skinny to relaxed 

neck and arm measurement with various fits from slim to husky or whatever term people want to use.  

Chest measurement range for casual shirts.  

Much easier than trying to figure out the actual sizes of something marked XXL or 10-12 or 12-14 or 16 whatever.  

Now that I am out of the woods with the 16 year old, we get to start all over again with the 10 year old.  And just for funsies, despite having near identical faces and both being tall, they have very different builds so what worked for the older is not just ready to replicate for the 10 year old.  My older son is all arms and legs and super skinny.  My younger son has a more average build.  Maybe that will be easier?  

Edited by LucyStoner
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Back when DS was growing, I struggled so much trying to find clothes for him (he grew 9 inches in 10 months and ended the spurt with needing a 28x36 - yeah I never did find that size).  I HATE shopping and so I didn't even know where to start or what brands might work.  For any others in the same boat, I learned Levi seems to be the best choice for jeans.  Not all colors/sizes but if you hunt enough you find some things. I know some of the teen stores (abercrombie, banana republic etc) had some but they were very expensive and still ended up being too short for our needs.  

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When kids sizes no longer work we move to American Eagle skinny line.  It's expensive but truly what fits.  Right now my 13yr old is too tall for 12s(ankle showing) but 14slim is a very difficult size to find and they are still a bit big around the waist.  In shorts he's wearing a size 8 boys. He's been wearing levis and they say 25x27 for 14s.  I'd rather find a 24x 28.   My 21yr old son wears a 28x30

 

Edited by Splash1
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I've had that same problem and mostly gone with Lands End pull-on shorts/pants and just letting shirts be too wide, because they all are.

If clothing companies know kids need slim, regular or husky pants, and the shirt should go around the same waistline the pants go around, why do they not offer the same for shirts?? Let me get that polo shirt in a slim!

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On 9/17/2019 at 11:25 AM, PeterPan said:

Ok, so is 12 the jump point and then they go to adult clothing? 

No!  It doesn’t seem to work that way.  My son is VERY particular about his clothes fitting.  He’s 14 years old and wants to look good.  But he’s in the same boat as your son—where the clothes that fit him properly everywhere else, are super short in the arms.  It is very frustrating to him.  

If he jumps up to small men’s clothes, they’re too long on him and slightly baggy and he hates that look.  I’m having trouble finding men’s clothes in XS, but haven’t looked too hard yet.  But maybe if men have XS sizes, he might fit them.  I’ll be checking out some of the suggestions people have made in this thread for certain brands.

 

On 9/17/2019 at 12:12 PM, Lori D. said:

It's a form of BCM syndrome = men's jackets that are huge around, with short sleeves that only reach halfway down from elbow to wrist.

It's a term I coined when trying to find second-hand nice jackets for an event that teen DSs were attending. They were shooting up fast and toothpick thin, so no way I was investing in buying new suits that would be worn once. As we scoured the racks for something that might roughly fit, and kept coming up with these jackets wide enough to for three teens to swim in, but sleeves that left their forearms uncovered, I snapped in annoyance and loudly said, "What's the deal?! Do they only make jackets to fit Barrel Chested Midgets?!!" 😂

That's when I embarrassedly realized there was a man nearby who heard; he startled, and then tried to suppress a smile, and DSs collapsed in laughter.

So, BCM syndrome strikes size 14 boys jeans too, apparently. Except maybe it's a variant strain -- CSLWW syndrome: Cursedly Short Legged with Wide Waist syndrome. 😂

 

My poor DS14 has been stuck in BCM land for over a year now.  He’s getting so sick of the few clothes we did find that fit and if he wears long sleeved shirts, he always pushed them up past his elbow because he’s embarrassed at how his wrists stick out.

 

(Barrel Chested Midgets made me laugh out loud, literally.  I needed a good laugh—thank you)

Edited by Garga
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17 minutes ago, Garga said:

No!  It doesn’t seem to work that way.  My son is VERY particular about his clothes fitting.  He’s 14 years old and wants to look good.  But he’s in the same boat as your son—where the clothes that fit him properly everywhere else, are super short in the arms.  It is very frustrating to him.  

If he jumps up to small men’s clothes, they’re too long on him and slightly baggy and he hates that look.  I’m having trouble finding men’s clothes in XS, but haven’t looked too hard yet.  But maybe if men have XS sizes, he might fit them.  I’ll be checking out some of the suggestions people have made in this thread for certain brands.

My poor DS14 has been stuck in BCM land for over a year now.  He’s getting so sick of the few clothes we did find that fit and if he wears long sleeved shirts, he always pushed them up past his elbow because he’s embarrassed at how his wrists stick out.

(Barrel Chested Midgets made me laugh out loud, literally.  I needed a good laugh—thank you)


Poor guy! Totally get it. My DS#2 is now 25yo, is almost 6'2" and under 150 pounds (except when he's heavily working out and taking protein powder -- he managed to reach 160 this last year before wildland firefighting season) -- so clothes that fit are *still* problematic for him. sigh.

Barrel Chested Midgets -- glad that gave you a laugh -- my boys STILL tease me about that one, because it's just not the kind of thing I typically say or do -- loudly burst out in a store with a crazy phrase, lol.

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I’m short, but my oldest 2 are tall.  Here’s my trick to get long enough jeans - buy the bootcut styles.  

When I took ds shopping for jeans a weeks ago, I wasn’t sure what to do.  He’s too thin for men’s sizes, but too tall for the regular boy’s sizes.  He’s been wearing a size 16 in shorts, but I knew the size 16 would be too short for jeans.  I had him try on the size 16 in boot cut.  He asked me to buy 2.  Success!  At least until the next growth spurt, which is probably scheduled for next week. 

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9 hours ago, Garga said:

My poor DS14 has been stuck in BCM land for over a year now.  He’s getting so sick of the few clothes we did find that fit and if he wears long sleeved shirts, he always pushed them up past his elbow because he’s embarrassed at how his wrists stick out.

 

My shopaholic husband realized that if he wants to find decent fitting clothes for our kids, it takes him weeks and not being able to find anything on the sales/clearance racks 🤣 Now he just pay up if it’s around $30 per piece.

DS14 in CK Slim shirt, DS13 in The Children's Place polo shirt. (ETA: deleted photo)

Edited by Arcadia
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10 hours ago, Splash1 said:

When kids sizes no longer work we move to American Eagle skinny line.  It's expensive but truly what fits.  Right now my 13yr old is too tall for 12s(ankle showing) but 14slim is a very difficult size to find and they are still a bit big around the waist.  In shorts he's wearing a size 8 boys. He's been wearing levis and they say 25x27 for 14s.  I'd rather find a 24x 28.   My 21yr old son wears a 28x30

 

 

American Eagle has terrific sales at times.  Jean $19.99, for instance.  I suggest getting on their e-mail list.

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