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How would you feel? (kid issue)


BakersDozen
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1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

 

Oh, absolutely! It all depends on who it is and what kind of relationship you have! 🙂

And the car leasing thing — I would probably handle it pretty much the way you said it, and not just blurt out, “Wow, that’s an idiotic thing to do!”  It’s not much of a discussion if it starts with the assumption that the other person is a complete moron, right? And if I thought the person might be offended (or if it wasn’t someone I was close to and I didn’t know how they would react,) I wouldn’t say anything at all. 

I thought we were talking about expressing disapproval over decisions, not necessarily discussions with interested parties (like expressing disapproval of homeschooling or a negative opinion on a name choice, something that is just, "I think this is a bad choice.")

At any rate, it's not like I don't ask for or take advice or hear disapproval from certain relatives. But the relatives I'm able to do that with are NOT the ones who simply want to "say their piece" or the ones who feel like I should have enough confidence to deal with whatever they think about my life choices. 

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2 hours ago, EmseB said:

I feel like a lot of this advice comes before kids move out on their own, or are still being financed by their parents. I heard all this stuff about finances, tattoos, whatever, before I left home. I financed my bedroom set and made other bad decisions knowing what my parents thought about my choices because I'd grown up with then telling me. When I moved out and did my own thing, a lot of it was not believing them, a lot of it was not caring and wanting my own independence, and some of it was just me being dumb. I have a super close relationship with my mom and I credit a lot of it to her letting me figure out my own dumbness when I was a young adult. In contrast, I have another relative who had/has an opinion, often negative, about everything I do. I tend to limit what I share with that person because a lot of times I just don't want to deal with the back and forth. They assume I haven't thought it out and treat me as if I'm still about 15yo. They may have even had good points (don't get a dog at this point in your life!), but I can't handle constant advice I'm not asking for or disapproval of my choices because I'm well into middle age and have a way different family culture than I did growing up.

Also, all jokes aside, I really, really recommend not telling any adult you don't like the name choice for their upcoming baby, close relative or no. It really sucks for some of us to hear, "Ugh, Mary?! Why would you pick that? It's so old fashioned and plain!" *not my kid's real name

I so agree with your last paragraph. I’ll never forget what a neighbor said when we told him we were considering the name Sadie for a girl. “It sounds like the name of a female stripper.” It turned out we had a boy, so ultimately it was a moot point.

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3 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

Oh my mom hated the name we chose for DD10.  Hated it.  

And I don't care that she did.  We obviously used it anyway.  It's over and done with, no grudges, and it's not relevant to anyone today.  

Well, it is if your dd10 were to ever find out Grandma hates her name. Or even that she used to hate it.

That's kind of the general concept I was getting at -- something fundamental about your family or family culture or whatever, where it doesn't just go away, but a close relative has told you how bad they think it is for you to be doing that or to have done that. It can't be unsaid, and it may be a one-time expression of disapproval, but it doesn't just go away if the thing still exists (like a name choice or a lifestyle or a house already purchased or whatever).

If someone hears those things on a regular basis, maybe they just decide to stop being as open with whomever is expressing those thoughts. And it's even trickier if it's someone your DC married and you don't know how they feel about your expressions of various opinions.

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I was thinking about this some more and figured that I should add that with my in laws, it is a two way street. They criticize my husband, and me, in a caring but annoying way, and my husband does the same back. For example, they want to sell their suburban house and move way out in the country. My husband tells them, every time it comes up, that he thinks that is a foolish plan because it will move them away from their friends,  children, and grandchildren and make them more car dependent at a time in their life when they are getting closer to needing the help of others and would benefit from moving closer to doctors and medical centers, not further away.

So, those of you who are open with your opinions with your adult children, are you open to hearing their thoughts as well? Truly I'm just curious since it's not at all what I grew up with. I tell my husband he and his family are odd, haha.

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On 9/19/2019 at 6:22 PM, happysmileylady said:

I probably would have busted out laughing.  As in “omg why on earth would you think that?   Last time I was at the stop club, those were NOT the names I heard lol (and ftr, haven’t been near a strip club for over 2 decades lol).  

But then, I probably wouldn’t have an occasion to tell a *neighbor* anyway.  Neighbors aren’t important enough to share that sort of stuff with.  

We were out to eat with him and his wife and they asked. And we hadn’t decided on a girl’s name yet, it was just on our short list. 

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1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

I probably would have busted out laughing.  As in “omg why on earth would you think that?   Last time I was at the stop club, those were NOT the names I heard lol (and ftr, haven’t been near a strip club for over 2 decades lol).  

But then, I probably wouldn’t have an occasion to tell a *neighbor* anyway.  Neighbors aren’t important enough to share that sort of stuff with.  

“If someone hears those things on a regular basis “

i will reiterate....I am not talking about a “regular basis.”   

In terms of “what if DD10 found out grandma didn’t like her name?”

what purpose would it serve for anyone to bring up an irrelevant disapproval?   I wouldn’t.  DH wouldn’t. Mom wouldn’t.  My siblings wouldn’t.  So who would tell her?   And why?   

Why does any weird family lore come out in stories? Who knows? Someone drinks too much at a gathering and tries to be funny? Someone asks? Someone overhears something not meant for their ears? Which is why I just implore people not to be on record for stuff like that. "If you can't say something nice" really applies here. If you don't like someone's name, for heaven's sake, don't say it out loud, especially if they are someone you hold dear, even if they aren't born yet.

Aside from all that,  it *is* relevant to some people if you think their kid's name is hideous. It is not thin-skinned to care if grandma hates her grandkid's name. Some people do care very much about their parent's opinion on that stuff and it does feel hurtful to hear someone say something like that out loud. I know it doesn't bother you, but I guess just take my word for it? If the emotional response doesn't make sense, that's ok, but know it is personal to some. 🙂

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This is the single most eye opening, soul searching, may-make-some-real-changes thread I may have ever read, and I have read the boards for 15 years!

My FOO was just not kind usually.  Not always hateful, just living parallel lives or something.  Hard to describe, because I had a mom and dad who I absolutely felt loved my siblings & I - never doubted that.  

But, I thought people on tv celebrating birthdays, giving loving advice, general intentional family dynamics were just that...TV families.  I realized through spending time with friends and the families that I babysat for, and later also coworkers, that those types of relationships weren’t just on TV!

I did not necessarily think I learned bad dynamics (although patient DH may disagree), until I had children and realized how short tempered or judgmental I was with them verbally.  So, I (we) became very intentional in our parenting.  Turning the verbiage into loving guidance and respectful openness.

This thread has opened my eyes yet again about how other families are!  I still have a way to go, because, hearing that there are actually real people like @EmseB who do not share their opinion with others out of kindness, however kindly or jokingly worded, makes me think to perhaps go further in my parenting journey.  I do see signs, now that I think about it, that I may be too loose-lipped, albeit kindly, with my opinion.  Although, I also agree with the view that @happysmileylady and others have expressed, I am thinking that a little more holding back might be right for our family and our children.  They know I am talkative & get over things quickly, but I think, in the spirit of enjoying ‘closeness’ with them, I may have been unkind from their perspective.  From the perspective of my FOO, my husband and I and our YO children are just a bunch of sunshine bursts with each other!  But, perhaps because our children were raised so different than we were (DHs family was more kind, but still way too opinionated) our children may have the perspective @EmseB articulates here and think I am just over the top!  I will be thinking this over.

Thanks for letting me express all that.  Therapeutic.

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52 minutes ago, Familia said:

This is the single most eye opening, soul searching, may-make-some-real-changes thread I may have ever read, and I have read the boards for 15 years!

My FOO was just not kind usually.  Not always hateful, just living parallel lives or something.  Hard to describe, because I had a mom and dad who I absolutely felt loved my siblings & I - never doubted that.  

But, I thought people on tv celebrating birthdays, giving loving advice, general intentional family dynamics were just that...TV families.  I realized through spending time with friends and the families that I babysat for, and later also coworkers, that those types of relationships weren’t just on TV!

I did not necessarily think I learned bad dynamics (although patient DH may disagree), until I had children and realized how short tempered or judgmental I was with them verbally.  So, I (we) became very intentional in our parenting.  Turning the verbiage into loving guidance and respectful openness.

This thread has opened my eyes yet again about how other families are!  I still have a way to go, because, hearing that there are actually real people like @EmseB who do not share their opinion with others out of kindness, however kindly or jokingly worded, makes me think to perhaps go further in my parenting journey.  I do see signs, now that I think about it, that I may be too loose-lipped, albeit kindly, with my opinion.  Although, I also agree with the view that @happysmileylady and others have expressed, I am thinking that a little more holding back might be right for our family and our children.  They know I am talkative & get over things quickly, but I think, in the spirit of enjoying ‘closeness’ with them, I may have been unkind from their perspective.  From the perspective of my FOO, my husband and I and our YO children are just a bunch of sunshine bursts with each other!  But, perhaps because our children were raised so different than we were (DHs family was more kind, but still way too opinionated) our children may have the perspective @EmseB articulates here and think I am just over the top!  I will be thinking this over.

Thanks for letting me express all that.  Therapeutic.

 

Before you beat yourself up too much, maybe you should discuss this with your kids and see how they have perceived your comments. They may very well say that they appreciated your honesty and that you have saved them from making some very stupid mistakes. 

Maybe they will say that you have been harsh or meddling, but they might just as easily realize that the things you have said over the years have been said out of kindness and with good intentions, so even if your delivery wasn’t always perfect, they knew how you meant it. 

I don’t think there are necessarily right or wrong answers here, because everyone’s family is different and people can view the exact same comment, delivered in the exact same tone, as either kind and helpful advice or annoying and arrogant meddling, depending on their family culture. I think what we all seem to agree on is that, no matter how kindly we say something, we shouldn’t harp on it or insist that our family members are terrible people if they don’t do things our way. The “my way or the highway” approach is never going to be viewed in a positive way, and if we hold on to grudges over these things and keep bringing them up over and over again, it will have a negative impact on our relationships. And if we are going to say something critical, we shouldn’t make it personal — we may think a decision is bad, but we need to be sure we don’t imply that the family member is a bad person for making that decision.

You always seem like such a nice person, so I’ll bet your kids know that you mean well, and hopefully their feelings haven’t been hurt because, although you may have made a few negative comments here and there about their decisions, you haven’t called them names or made negative comments about them as people. 

But talk to them. It will make all of you feel better! 🙂

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I've been thinking about how my parents do the "adult offspring" thing.

I know there have been many many many times when my folks have had an opinion and kept it to themselves.  Sometimes they mention things to me about my siblings.  "But I'm not saying anything."  I recall my mom telling me the time my dad's mom informed my mom that her firstborn "doesn't want" a pacifier and took it out of his mouth.  My mom (age 19) said "yes he does" and put it back in his mouth.  I think she got her point across about where the line is drawn, LOL.

I know my mom did tell us plenty as long as we were in her house, which for some of us was well into our 20s.  Also, if one of us brings up a topic and indicates we aren't sure what to do, she will start with "well when that happened to me I___" or "I would ___."  However, if someone is clearly going down the wrong path, my mom will sometimes say in a more urgent voice, "Kid, you need to do xyz."  (And there have been times I have said the same to my siblings.)

I am not aware of any of us siblings having to tell my mom to back off.  I think her boundaries are relatively healthy.  I think if there's anything she does too much of, it's saying yes to things my siblings should not be asking from her.

My dad is even less likely to say anything, but when he does, it is important advice.  You know that if Dad said something, you have really screwed up, LOL.

Last night my dad called me to ask about his tax return which I am working on.  It's a good thing he did, because honestly, it slipped my mind that I had to research something before I could finish it.  He had been very hesitant to call me.  He's that uncomfortable "telling" us what to do.  I don't really even know why.  I told him I'd much rather he called me than sit home and worry about stuff.

Edited by SKL
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4 minutes ago, SKL said:

I've been thinking about how my parents do the "adult offspring" thing.

I know there have been many many many times when my folks have had an opinion and kept it to themselves.  Sometimes they mention things to me about my siblings.  "But I'm not saying anything."  I recall my mom telling me the time my dad's mom informed my mom that her firstborn "doesn't want" a pacifier and took it out of his mouth.  My mom (age 19) said "yes he does" and put it back in his mouth.  I think she got her point across about where the line is drawn, LOL.

I know my mom did tell us plenty as long as we were in her house, which for some of us was well into our 20s.  Also, if one of us brings up a topic and indicates we aren't sure what to do, she will start with "well when that happened to me I___" or "I would ___."  However, if someone is clearly going down the wrong path, my mom will sometimes say in a more urgent voice, "Kid, you need to do xyz."  (And there have been times I have said the same to my siblings.)

I am not aware of any of us siblings having to tell my mom to back off.  I think her boundaries are relatively healthy.  I think if there's anything she does too much of, it's saying yes to things my siblings should not be asking from her.

My dad is even less likely to say anything, but when he does, it is important advice.  You know that if Dad said something, you have really screwed up, LOL.

Last night my dad called me to ask about his tax return which I am working on.  It's a good thing he did, because honestly, it slipped my mind that I had to research something before I could finish it.  He had been very hesitant to call me.  He's that uncomfortable "telling" us what to do.  I don't really even know why.  I told him I'd much rather he called me than sit home and worry about stuff.

This sounds like a very healthy relationship! Sounds like your parents know when to speak up and be quiet. That means that when they do say something you all truly listen.

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27 minutes ago, SKL said:

I've been thinking about how my parents do the "adult offspring" thing.

I know there have been many many many times when my folks have had an opinion and kept it to themselves.  Sometimes they mention things to me about my siblings.  "But I'm not saying anything."  I recall my mom telling me the time my dad's mom informed my mom that her firstborn "doesn't want" a pacifier and took it out of his mouth.  My mom (age 19) said "yes he does" and put it back in his mouth.  I think she got her point across about where the line is drawn, LOL.

I know my mom did tell us plenty as long as we were in her house, which for some of us was well into our 20s.  Also, if one of us brings up a topic and indicates we aren't sure what to do, she will start with "well when that happened to me I___" or "I would ___."  However, if someone is clearly going down the wrong path, my mom will sometimes say in a more urgent voice, "Kid, you need to do xyz."  (And there have been times I have said the same to my siblings.)

I am not aware of any of us siblings having to tell my mom to back off.  I think her boundaries are relatively healthy.  I think if there's anything she does too much of, it's saying yes to things my siblings should not be asking from her.

My dad is even less likely to say anything, but when he does, it is important advice.  You know that if Dad said something, you have really screwed up, LOL.

Last night my dad called me to ask about his tax return which I am working on.  It's a good thing he did, because honestly, it slipped my mind that I had to research something before I could finish it.  He had been very hesitant to call me.  He's that uncomfortable "telling" us what to do.  I don't really even know why.  I told him I'd much rather he called me than sit home and worry about stuff.

Maybe he has been on a message board with a bunch of dad's telling him to mind his own business and not boss his adult kids around.  😉

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2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Maybe he has been on a message board with a bunch of dad's telling him to mind his own business and not boss his adult kids around.  😉

LOL.  I dunno.  I remember him taking me aside when I was 22 and telling me something I needed to hear.  It was hard for him even then (over 30 years ago).

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Hmmm... this is interesting stuff. I have a young adult who is seriously considering a major decision that I strongly feel would be a mistake. What he wants to do is far from illegal or immoral, but it could have a major negative impact on the rest of his life if it goes wrong. In the early days of his considering this decision, we all discussed it. His father and I expressed our concerns in a calm, reasonable way to make sure he was looking at all sides. However, he is young and enamored of this particular path. Ultimately it is his life, his decision. He is the one who will deal with the results of that decision, whether good or bad. (We will, too, but that will be different.) I accept that the decision is out of my control and will support him in it if he chooses to go forward to the extent a parent can. But I have not changed my opinion about the decision. However, he keeps bringing it up in a way that almost solicits discussion. My response--because I do not and cannot as a mother share his enthusiasm for it--is to give a nod of acknowledgement  (so he knows I'm listening) and say, "Yes, you've mentioned that." But I won't discuss it further, so I change the subject. So, yeah, I'm not burdening him with my unwanted opinion. But I get the sense that my response is still not satisfactory to him. Sometimes you can't win as a parent no matter what you do.

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6 minutes ago, Valley Girl said:

Hmmm... this is interesting stuff. I have a young adult who is seriously considering a major decision that I strongly feel would be a mistake. What he wants to do is far from illegal or immoral, but it could have a major negative impact on the rest of his life if it goes wrong. In the early days of his considering this decision, we all discussed it. His father and I expressed our concerns in a calm, reasonable way to make sure he was looking at all sides. However, he is young and enamored of this particular path. Ultimately it is his life, his decision. He is the one who will deal with the results of that decision, whether good or bad. (We will, too, but that will be different.) I accept that the decision is out of my control and will support him in it if he chooses to go forward to the extent a parent can. But I have not changed my opinion about the decision. However, he keeps bringing it up in a way that almost solicits discussion. My response--because I do not and cannot as a mother share his enthusiasm for it--is to give a nod of acknowledgement  (so he knows I'm listening) and say, "Yes, you've mentioned that." But I won't discuss it further, so I change the subject. So, yeah, I'm not burdening him with my unwanted opinion. But I get the sense that my response is still not satisfactory to him. Sometimes you can't win as a parent no matter what you do.

My son does that too.  If I try to remain silent on a topic he will often force me to say how I feel about it.  

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29 minutes ago, Valley Girl said:

Hmmm... this is interesting stuff. I have a young adult who is seriously considering a major decision that I strongly feel would be a mistake. What he wants to do is far from illegal or immoral, but it could have a major negative impact on the rest of his life if it goes wrong. In the early days of his considering this decision, we all discussed it. His father and I expressed our concerns in a calm, reasonable way to make sure he was looking at all sides. However, he is young and enamored of this particular path. Ultimately it is his life, his decision. He is the one who will deal with the results of that decision, whether good or bad. (We will, too, but that will be different.) I accept that the decision is out of my control and will support him in it if he chooses to go forward to the extent a parent can. But I have not changed my opinion about the decision. However, he keeps bringing it up in a way that almost solicits discussion. My response--because I do not and cannot as a mother share his enthusiasm for it--is to give a nod of acknowledgement  (so he knows I'm listening) and say, "Yes, you've mentioned that." But I won't discuss it further, so I change the subject. So, yeah, I'm not burdening him with my unwanted opinion. But I get the sense that my response is still not satisfactory to him. Sometimes you can't win as a parent no matter what you do.

 

20 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

My son does that too.  If I try to remain silent on a topic he will often force me to say how I feel about it.  

 

Its probably that they really, really, really, want you to tell them that they are doing the right thing because they respect and value your opinion and if they can convince you that they are right, they will feel more confident that they are making a good decision.  They probably trust you more than they trust anyone else to have their best interests at heart.

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1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

 

Before you beat yourself up too much, maybe you should discuss this with your kids and see how they have perceived your comments. They may very well say that they appreciated your honesty and that you have saved them from making some very stupid mistakes. 

... You always seem like such a nice person, so I’ll bet your kids know that you mean well, and hopefully their feelings haven’t been hurt because, although you may have made a few negative comments here and there about their decisions, you haven’t called them names or made negative comments about them as people. 

But talk to them. It will make all of you feel better! 🙂

You are very kind.

The “...you haven’t called them names...” part has me ROFL and cringing at the same time...probably only a time or two.  I guess not real name calling, but I have been unkind, but, yes, almost always very nice, and they know I have a short fuse that has gotten so much under control. 

I remember a decision eldest made to go to not accept an all expenses paid week out west at a camp when he was 19.  Without details, I will say that he just didn’t feel that he fit in with the group, even though he was technically part of that demographic.  All I could see was the awesome opportunity to go rock climbing and get past an acute problem he was having.  I berated the decision, in quite heated terms.  The loudness and harshness of my reaction was taken surprisingly well (as I said my children know me), but, I am sure it stung.  I apologized fairly quickly.  Although I have worked hard to temper my temper (which would even surprise people I know IRL), I have a desire to go further.  My (past overall) temper is related to my enthusiasm, of which I have a lot.  But, there are a lot of words in me.  And, I consider it a virtue, of sorts, to temper the use of them as well.  I shoot to be the kind of MIL that will work like a horse (if desired by them) to help and not offend with my words.  They may feel like @EmseB or others.  I don’t want to take chances, and I want to practice prudence more anyway.  I believe in personal sacrifice right down to my core, so withholding unnecessary words is a good sacrifice.

I am so glad you suggested I talk to our children.  They know I can’t hide things, so I hope they take my desire to respect their decisions while sometimes still not (being able to) holding back my opinion, is consciously my issue.  I guess that is why I agree with ‘both sides’ here.  I know that expressing one’s opinion may be ‘just talk’, but I do know that respecting how others hear ‘talk’, is an important part of true good communication dynamic.

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1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

 

 

Its probably that they really, really, really, want you to tell them that they are doing the right thing because they respect and value your opinion and if they can convince you that they are right, they will feel more confident that they are making a good decision.  They probably trust you more than they trust anyone else to have their best interests at heart.

I'm sure that's exactly it, Cat. He wants approval and enthusiasm for the decision, not just acceptance and support. (And by support, I mean active support in that we will do what parents can do in that situation to make sure he is as successful as possible in pursuit of his choice.) However, many posters are saying they don't expect their parents to pretend when they disagree  They just want them to keep quiet about their disagreement. In some families, that works fine. In others, it's expected that everyone is everyone else's business. In still others, kids want to be told they're right and aren't satisfied with silent disagreement even if there's active support. In short, there is NO single "correct" way to handle these situations. This whole discussion is highly individual and depends on a bunch of factors.

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The principles I TRY to adopt with my adult and almost adult kids:

1.  Listen.  I think that most of us do a lot less listening than we should in general.  Especially before opening our mouths.  Active listening can include asking questions.

2.  Realize that there are many people in this world who survive and even thrive doing things a bit differently than I have done or would do.  Of course I am going to relate things to my own biases and opinions but taking a step back to try to see things from a broader perspective isn't a bad thing. 

3.  Use phrases like "I think" or "in my opinion" or "in my personal experience".  Not because we should live life scripted but because those phrases embody the principles of acknowledging that my thoughts and opinions and experience aren't the only "right" ones out there.

4.  Recognize that relationships are dynamic.  We are humans with a sinful nature (which I recognize as a specific Theological stance but it is one that I have and apply), we have hormones, personalities which don't always mesh, can get hangry, have baggage from past life experiences, and some of us are better than others at seeing things from the point of view of others.  I do offer scripts on occasion as a way to show an example of how thinking certain ways influences our communication styles but I don't think that relationships and conversations in and of themselves should be highly scripted.  I mean, how stilted and awkward would that be? 

5.  Recognize that learning from experience is something that we all do to some degree and that isn't a bad thing.  Sure, we as parents want to impart our knowledge so that our kids never ever make bad decisions but haven't we had to learn from experience ourselves?  And haven't sometimes those dire predictions of doing things differently than parental advice turned out to not be quite so dire after all?  (I do think that "Don't drink the cyanide" is different than "invest your money as I did".  Ie.  Not all warnings are quite so cut and dried.)

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