BakersDozen Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Could use some insight, please. Our 22yos was to go to Boston for 9 days w/his 14/16yo sisters, leaving this last Sunday. He bought a ticket for himself and one sister as he was initially going to Seattle in Feb. for her bday but when that fell through the trip was planned for the fall and the East Coast. We added the other sister to the plans as we figured lodging for 3 wouldn't be more than lodging for 2 and it would help our son w/the expense. So we paid for her ticket while our son was to pay for the balance left from increased cost to the original two tickets. For lodging we paid for 2 hotel nights plus would cover 1/3 of the lodging; ds would cover 2/3 of other nights as he would have paid full price without our other dd going along. Goodness, I hope all of that made sense. In short, we put plane tickets and lodging on our credit card and he was to pay us for his part. This was in May. On 8/23 we sent him a message indicating that we needed his portion of the expenses in our bank account as our credit card payment was coming due (his portion was just over $1000). 6 days later he was at our house and expressed that he had the money but it was in his bank and he just had not gotten around to taking care of transferring the funds. This was a Friday night. He was to go the next morning and take care of the transfer. On Saturday when we heard nothing from him and saw no funds in our account he was sent another message indicating that we would be canceling the Air BnB that evening as that was the deadline for getting a full refund. Our son freaked out. He turned it into a drama-filled, emotional, my-life-is-so-horrible-and-it's-everyone-else's-fault thing. We encouraged him to take a deep breath, not do anything rash, get to the bank, and just get this taken care of. No big deal, just get it done. Right? He canceled everything. This is a person who, if told to turn left, will turn right just to show that he can't be told what to do. He is prideful and stubborn as all get out yet his external locus of control makes him the victim. He works full time, has no expenses other than very low rent and food/clothing, who indulges in $20 burgers and going to the movies each week...he has the money. Yet he tried to place the blame on us for pulling this on him. When we pointed out that he knew about the trip and associated expenses since May he again turned it into our fault. Ugh So that was 8/30. We did not discuss what happened beyond that day as he knew how angry and frustrated we were mostly on the part of our daughters who were excited for the trip. We decided that my dh would take the girls in October which is going to cost us a lot of money as lodging won't be shared w/our son. Ouch. I watched my dh put in hours and hours this weekend researching/booking flights and lodging and my anger toward my son increased greatly. And then came a message from our ds this morning... He went on the trip by himself. Left on Sunday for the East Coast, paying for lodging by himself, paying for what he refused to just because he was requested to transfer the money he owed. I have not told my dh and honestly don't think I will. I am in tears. To make this worse a friend with whom I spoke this morning about the situation says that our son is a "winner" who is simply enjoying the experience of traveling by himself. This is a woman whose grown sons show up at her house, take anything they can fit down their shirts, stay for weeks on end w/o helping, and whom she enables greatly. And she tells me our son is a "winner". Not the word that is in my mind to describe my son... Sorry this was so long... 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Thankfully 22 isn't very old and there's a good chance he'll grow up. ❤️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaBelle Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Your poor dds. That had to be hard on all of you. Shake the comments from the friend off. She's clueless. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said: Thankfully 22 isn't very old and there's a good chance he'll grow up. ❤️ This. Seriously. Doesn't make you not want to scream and cry and pull your hair out now, but he'll most likely grow up sooner rather than later. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said: Thankfully 22 isn't very old and there's a good chance he'll grow up. ❤️ True...I'm glad I am not today who or how I was at 22. What I do not understand is pride so strong that one would rather foot the entire bill for a trip rather than pay a lesser amount simply because it is requested. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 And here's what really gets me: My dh is so generous. He didn't have to pay for 2 nights of the trip but he did just because he wanted to. He is a good, good man and our son so disrespects and dishonors his dad. But our son cares for no one but himself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) I'd think this was a young adult that had some serious growing up to do. I wouldn't have wanted to send my 2 minor kids on vacation with him honestly. I can imagine a situation where he maybe started talking about travel plans and then you started booking and suddenly he felt overwhelmed with the extra sister and didn't know how to gracefully back out. So allowed this to conjure up some drama. I find it odd he would specifically message you to say he went alone. That especially seems hurtful. He is entitled to do whatever he wants with his own money but he doesn't need to rub your face in it. When those prefrontal cortex brains are clearly still in development, I try not to take it too personally. Ugh. Sorry! If this kind of stuff comes up again let him do the leg work and sink or swim on it. Edited September 16, 2019 by FuzzyCatz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 Quote I am not however sure I like that you were going to cancel if he didn't get you the money. You where the one to mention cancelling first and that's not something I would have done. I should have clarified that: We were going to cancel the Air BnB. Another could be booked once we had his money in our account. We would not have canceled the flights. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 You might need a new friend. As for the son, I’d tell your husband bc I am very not keeping secrets kind of person. And I’d refuse to argue with son or lend him money in the future. Want to book a trip? Sure. Soon as you give me the cash I’ll put it on our card. Yeah that’s not a hardship son, that’s adulting so quit whining. I have no patience for this stuff. I wouldn’t let it hurt my relationship. Just nope. Not participating in that nonsense, lesson learned, now would anyone like more bean dip? Hopefully age will adjust his attitude some day. In the mean time, which is so aptly named, all a mama can do is keep on keeping on. (((Hugs))) 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Quote I am not however sure I like that you were going to cancel if he didn't get you the money. You where the one to mention cancelling first and that's not something I would have done. I can see this, but at the same time, if I knew the money was there, it wasn't a struggle for the child to get it, I might pay in just the way the OP did. It's not like a loan, but more like when you have roommates and one gives the other the rent so it can all come out of one account. There is no loan, it's just administrative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) Quote I'd think this was a young adult that had some serious growing up to do. I wouldn't have wanted to send my 2 minor kids on vacation with him honestly. We were OK with him taking the girls as they all went last year for 6 weeks. The financial situation was different for this trip in that he was responsible for paying his share (and his sister's as he originally planned this trip). So it was actually to his benefit that the second sister was going financially. I think he was fine being with younger sisters, he just wasn't OK with a line being drawn in the sand. Edited for confusing wording/detail... Edited September 16, 2019 by BakersDozen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said: Yeah, but still....it's not something I would have done or said. Do you live near him? Yes, maybe 15 minutes away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) Do we need a social group for parents of older teens/young adults being pains in the rear end? Edited September 16, 2019 by fairfarmhand 5 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, happysmileylady said: If it were me, I probably would have taken my kid to the bank myself, like just swing by after a lunch together or something, before I would have threatened to cancel the lodging. Um. No. I’d probably have calmly stated, “Son, if you still want to do this thing, then I need the $ by X date bc we can not afford to pay this credit card bill. If you don’t, that’s fine but again, I can’t pay it for you and we need to let the girls know so plans can be adjusted.” If he went off on me and or didn’t pay, I would cancel bc I made that clear in a none threatening manner and that’s an unreasonable way to respond so I wouldn’t send my younger kids with him anyways. As to why and hows about if he had the money and going to the bank and blah blah blah. Honestly all I’d have heard is blah blah blah don’t have my money. Because whatever his reason doesn’t much matter to my credit card bill or my budget. It’s just static distraction. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoffive Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Ugh. I agree with some posters. Lesson learned. Don't front for things for him again. If he gives you the money then book things. Otherwise nope. I feel bad for your girls. That stinks for them. Tell your dh for sure. He needs to know. When your ds tells him some other time and he finds out you knew. Nope just tell him. But I would try and move on. Have your Dh go with the girls and have a good time. Don't front money for this kid again. Only book things when he gives you money before you book or be ready to front the whole cost. He is still so young. I hope he grows and learns from this. Hopefully one day you, dh, and dds can talk to him about how it made you/them feel. I think your friend is wrong. You can be the winner in this situation, by the way you choose to handle it now. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaBelle Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 20 minutes ago, happysmileylady said: If it were me, I probably would have taken my kid to the bank myself, like just swing by after a lunch together or something, before I would have threatened to cancel the lodging. Meh. He's old enough to do it himself and he should have. Mommy shouldn't have to hold his hand and give him a ride for this. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 1 minute ago, MaBelle said: Meh. He's old enough to do it himself and he should have. Mommy shouldn't have to hold his hand and give him a ride for this. I agree. For an 18 or 19yo who was overwhelmed with the executive function issues of traveling and banking, we'd work together on it. For a 22yo who is perfectly capable (as evidenced by going on the trip by himself) but A. doesn't want to, and B. expresses that by throwing a very childish tantrum... it's time to cut the cord. He is letting you know (in a rather rotten way) that he doesn't want to be included or relied upon for family outings or sibling supervision. (As evidenced by his canceling of the whole thing without even talking to you about it, or worrying about their feelings.) He's also expressing that he thinks he knows everything, which 22yos frequently do. Leave him to his grownup life, 15 minutes away. Tell your dh, not with a tone of "What will we do about Johnny," but more like, "I think we were mistaken to expect all of this from Johnny; he pretty much dropped his end of the ball, and then went off to do his own thing. We seem to have come to the end of the family vacation era, unless we are going, ourselves, and making all the arrangements ourselves. I don't think we should put the girls in the position of relying on Johnny again, he's in a different phase now. I'm glad you're going to take them. I hope we can all do a family thing sometime." And let it go. Least said, soonest mended. You are more likely to work out a good adult arrangement with Johnny later if you give him a lot of space right now. He has a LOT to learn, but he might learn it sooner on his own. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 33 minutes ago, BakersDozen said: We were OK with him taking the girls as they all went last year for 6 weeks. The financial situation was different for that trip in that he was responsible for paying his share (and his sister's as he originally planned this trip). So it was actually to his benefit that the second sister was going financially. I think he was fine being with younger sisters, he just wasn't OK with a line being drawn in the sand. Well that actually sounds extremely generous. So he is a good guy. Maybe still working on the executive function and follow through and maybe felt put in the spot. Not that excuses his jerk behavior but there's a nice kid in there somewhere. I just wouldn't front him any more so he gets in those kind of corners. I was imagining he lived across country. I might have asked if you could stop over for a check before bringing up cancellation. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, BakersDozen said: On 8/23 we sent him a message indicating that we needed his portion of the expenses in our bank account as our credit card payment was coming due (his portion was just over $1000). 6 days later he was at our house and expressed that he had the money but it was in his bank and he just had not gotten around to taking care of transferring the funds. This was a Friday night. He was to go the next morning and take care of the transfer. At this point I would have sat my DS down with me on the computer and insisted that we take care of the money transfer electronically right there and then. Because, this is the 21st century and there is technology. Waiting until a 22 y/o walks his ass to the bank? Nope, not going to happen. And insisting on that would not be the point I would feel the need to make. Edited September 16, 2019 by regentrude 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecka Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Honestly, if there might be a blow up, I think a blow up by text is way better than risking a blow up in person!!!!!!!!!!! Like — sometimes there’s a reason people choose to text, instead of do face-to-face. To me — if he had a blow up with a text, there’s a good chance he would have a blow up in person. Because i don’t know about giving him the benefit of the doubt that he just forgot and only needed some handholding. He could just have this attitude toward his parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 My guess is that he was offended because, to him, it sounded like you didn't trust him to get you the money. It could be that your text was worded poorly, it could be that he is being overly sensitive. It's likely a combination of the two. Texting you just to say he went on his own doesn't sound like a nice thing to do, but I'm wondering if he was trying to prove to you that he did have the money all along? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 How did he word his text? It's hard to distinguish tone - if the wording was very straight forward, I would try to assume the best and think that he was letting me know so I wouldn't find out via social media or a mutual friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, regentrude said: At this point I would have sat my DS down with me on the computer and insisted that we take care of the money transfer electronically right there and then. Because, this is the 21st century and there is technology. Waiting until a 22 y/o walks his ass to the bank? Nope, not going to happen. And insisting on that would not be the point I would feel the need to make. This was my first thought. No ability to transfer the money online or write a check? I suppose banks like that might exist, but most people I know rarely enter banks anymore, virtually everything is handled online. The exception being my mom’s small town local bank. But she does have checks, so there would be no need to go to the bank to transfer funds. Edited to add that it was extremely generous of him to take two sisters on a six week trip last year. So it sounds like he has a good heart, but still has some growing up to do and that there are maybe still some power struggles going on even though he is living on his own and supporting himself. Edited September 16, 2019 by Frances 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 1 hour ago, happysmileylady said: My understanding that the kid already *had* the money and I got the impression that the actual act of getting the cash to the mamma was the struggle, not that the kid simply didn’t want to pay. I don understand why threatening to cancel is better than “hey kid, we have been carrying your portion of the trip on our CC, your bank is right here next to this Steak N Shake, let’s swing by and get that cash out since we are right here.” Now if he threw a fit at that point, yeah, then I would threaten to cancel. I just wouldn’t care. He is 22 years old. He had known for some time that he owed her, he had said he would pay the next day, and yet he still couldn’t seem to handle getting his crap together and just giving them what he owed. It doesn’t matter if he had the money in his pocket or whether his bank was negative - the point was he owed them and didn’t pay them. The fact that he could have and just got in an irrational snit and refused to do it is not helping his case. I’d think it great he wanted to spend the time with a sibling if he wasn’t apparently equally ready to toss them under the bus just because his mommy didn’t beg sweet enough for him to pay what he had said he would. Like I said. I don’t have patience for this. I wouldn’t eat it upset me too terribly but I would just accept this either. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonflower Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I am unclear on the details; do you think he was resentful that he had to pay 2/3 of the lodging even though he was taking up 1/3 of the lodging space? That would irritate me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, happysmileylady said: If it were me, I probably would have taken my kid to the bank myself, like just swing by after a lunch together or something, before I would have threatened to cancel the lodging. For me, I think it would depend on whether this kind of behavior was a one-off or not. Some kids have a hard time getting around to repayment as an ongoing practice despite multiple polite reminders just because it's Mom and Dad they owe. And this kid is 22 and living on his own. He sounds as though he's (supposed to be) a self-sufficient adult, not a forgetful 15-year-old. At some point, a parent has to be able to let go of the responsibility to hold a kid's hand and say "This is the final reminder. If we don't have it by X date, we will need to do Y." And follow through. It's unfortunate things worked out the way they did. OP's kid should put things on his own credit card in the future if he can't understand why it was important to reimburse his parents on time. Edited September 16, 2019 by Valley Girl I am the typo queen today. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 2 hours ago, fairfarmhand said: Do we need a social group for parents of older teens/young adults being pains in the rear end? Ooooh, count me in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 Quote This was my first thought. No ability to transfer the money online or write a check? I suppose banks like that might exist, but most people I know rarely enter banks anymore, virtually everything is handled online. The exception being my mom’s small town local bank. But she does have checks, so there would be no need to go to the bank to transfer funds. Edited to add that it was extremely generous of him to take two sisters on a six week trip last year. So it sounds like he has a good heart, but still has some growing up to do and that there are maybe still some power struggles going on even though he is living on his own and supporting himself. I had the same ridiculous discussion regarding transferring money with him - the guy works in a bank!!! It was beyond frustrating which is why Sat. morning was set for him to get his bum to an actual bank (since he had every reason for why he couldn't/wouldn't do it electronically) and get the money taken care of. The 6-week trip was in his best interest as he was basically a paid chaperone. We footed almost the entire bill. The condition of his heart is not generous, I can assure you. Opportunistic, yes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 Quote I am unclear on the details; do you think he was resentful that he had to pay 2/3 of the lodging even though he was taking up 1/3 of the lodging space? That would irritate me. There was never anything said/conveyed in this way. If anything he was relieved to have us share the lodging costs, plus we contributed 2 additional nights. He was ready to pay for himself and one sister anyway so 2/3 was better than the entire bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, BakersDozen said: The 6-week trip was in his best interest as he was basically a paid chaperone. We footed almost the entire bill. The condition of his heart is not generous, I can assure you. Opportunistic, yes. Oh sorry, I misread that as he paid for that trip. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 Quote How did he word his text? It's hard to distinguish tone - if the wording was very straight forward, I would try to assume the best and think that he was letting me know so I wouldn't find out via social media or a mutual friend. His text was not unkind but it was very typical of him in that he waited until he had departed town before letting us know and left no room for anything other than, "Here's what I did...deal with it." He is one who shows zero humility or remorse. Ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 Quote Oh sorry, I misread that as he paid for that trip. No, you read correctly, I typed incorrectly. Wrangling a toddler and fussy baby...should have waited to post that until naptime. Anyway, we wanted our girls to have a U.S. History East Coast tour and he went with them. He paid for eating out beyond what we set forth as reasonable and any attractions not on the itinerary. So he got a very nice trip paid for almost in full by us which was perfectly agreeable to all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambam Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) I'd be hurt. But I'd remember that young 20 something year olds can do stupid, stupid, thoughtless things. Many really don't have any practice considering anyone other than themselves. I'd hope he figures out when he gets his credit card bill that the trip cost him a lot more money than if he had just paid you guys the money for his part of the trip. I'd not front costs for him again. If he ever wanted to go on vacation with his younger siblings again, we'd sit down and explain how much his defaulting hurt them and that when he got his portion to you, then and only then would you book/reserve anything. If he complained about this, I'd remind him that due to the breakdown on this last trip, you don't feel comfortable setting you both up for such a possible unpleasant experience (not to mention the younger siblings). In all other dealings with this young man, I'd made sure to get all the details finalized with him and develop a time table as to what happens if he or you don't come through. Sorta like a real contract with any venue rental. Other than that, I don't know that I'd bring it up again. I'd probably listen to him tell about the trip (or maybe not) and tell him he really hurt/disappointed his younger siblings (if he did), and that you are hurt and disappointed that he did that. I wouldn't discuss it again. I'd try to forget. As for him being an individual that doesn't show humility/remorse (I think I got that part right), hopefully that will come in time. Sometimes when we think we know *everything*, we don't realize that we actually do not. Later we figure it out. Edited September 16, 2019 by Bambam 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 Quote Ok ok, wait, your son works IN the bank? (I am presuming that his bank accounts are with the same bank he works at.) Well that certainly adds a whole other level of frustration. He does not work in the bank we use but yes, he works in a bank. And yes, I/we wanted to bang our heads against a wall. He is showing himself to be one who happily spends other people's money, hoards his own, yet laments that he has none to spend. I promise we did not raise him to be this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, BakersDozen said: I had the same ridiculous discussion regarding transferring money with him - the guy works in a bank!!! It was beyond frustrating which is why Sat. morning was set for him to get his bum to an actual bank (since he had every reason for why he couldn't/wouldn't do it electronically) and get the money taken care of. The 6-week trip was in his best interest as he was basically a paid chaperone. We footed almost the entire bill. The condition of his heart is not generous, I can assure you. Opportunistic, yes. I misunderstood then. I thought he had paid for the entire six week trip last year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) I'm unclear about why such a young adult was paying so much for a sibling who was still a minor in the first place. Most 22 yos are barely out of college. I'll be thrilled with my kids if they've finished school and can pay all their own bills at that age. Why was it on him to pay for a big trip for a sibling in the first place? I know you mentioned something about a birthday trip, but at least among folks I know, that would be quite a present. Most of the families I know still mostly pay the way of their young adult kids on family centered vacations. If he has the means to pay, that's amazing and awesome. It's just... not my experience. I know lots of people in their mid to late 20's who are still going on all family trips on the parents' dime. And most folks in their 20's are not chomping at the bit to travel with teenagers. Which I don't think makes them bad people. It sounds like the way he jerked you around was really unkind. Not to mention the siblings. I would tell your dh, though that's just my relationship with my dh. I can't imagine keeping something like that from him. I guess I'm just wondering if this whole set up was not what he wanted in the first place. Maybe he doesn't want to play chaperone on your dime either. It's just not the time of life for that. Which could be okay. Edited September 16, 2019 by Farrar 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I would not have wanted to be chaperone to younger siblings at that age, no matter how much I was paid to do it and even less if I was expected to foot part of the bill. I realize that I am an outlier here on this thread. The problem though is he didn't say that up front but then dragged his feet and when called on it, blew up. I would have zero problem with a young adult that age taking a trip independently as an adult. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, happysmileylady said: Certainly, if this was something that was some sort of on-going thing that was regularly causing problems, yeah. Back in like Februrary, my mom placed our order for our freezer beef and pork. My parents, my sister and I all split a large order. As it's just one order, of course, one person collects the deposit and places the order, but we all pay the farmer directly at the time of pick up. Anyway, the deposit was something like $300, so $100 per group, or something around there. Certainly much less than the OP is talking about but still, mom paid the deposit so we could get the order in and I needed to get the money to her. I live 2.5 hours away from my parents. It should have been super simple to drop a check in the mail. I just kept forgetting. She came out here for an afternoon in March, reminded me to have the money for her....sure no problem, I will write a check.....both of us totally forgot. April, my family was out there for Easter and a family birthday party. Still totally forgot. May, Mothers day, another visit, much teasing ahead of time, still we both totally forgot. I am certainly not an irresponsible 41 yr old needing my mom to hold my hand. Just that particular thing, it just kept falling out of my head. Sometimes that happens. I am very glad my mom didn't threaten to cancel the order. I've been on both sides of that, too, so I totally get what you're saying. I'm dealing with similiar issues with a newly minted young adult, so I guess I'm just feeling a bit of the OP's pain. You want to guide them and be patient, but, dang it, could they just take care of the blasted bill already without it becoming MY problem and one more thing I have to keep track of? (Can you tell I've gotten a bit crabby about it?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, BakersDozen said: He does not work in the bank we use but yes, he works in a bank. And yes, I/we wanted to bang our heads against a wall. He is showing himself to be one who happily spends other people's money, hoards his own, yet laments that he has none to spend. I promise we did not raise him to be this way. It sounds like there is lots of resentment and anger on your part because you give so much to him, and he doesn’t behave in a way that you would like or demonstrate the character traits you feel he should based on how you raised him. I can certainly understand your anger and frustration. But gently, it may be best to back off on being so generous or mixing finances in any way because it seems like you are setting yourself up to be disappointed. He must have some very good qualities. After all, you trusted him to travel alone for six weeks with two of your daughters last year and were going to let them travel together again this year. I would try to focus on the good qualities and make sure he knows how much you appreciate those. Hopefully with time, maturity, and life experience, he will experience growth in other areas. Edited September 16, 2019 by Frances 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 Quote I'm unclear about why such a young adult was paying so much for a sibling who was still a minor in the first place. Most 22 yos are barely out of college. I'll be thrilled with my kids if they've finished school and can pay all their own bills at that age. Why was it on him to pay for a big trip for a sibling in the first place? I know you mentioned something about a birthday trip, but at least among folks I know, that would be quite a present. Most of the families I know still mostly pay the way of their young adult kids on family centered vacations. If he has the means to pay, that's amazing and awesome. It's just... not my experience. I know lots of people in their mid to late 20's who are still going on all family trips on the parents' dime. And most folks in their 20's are not chomping at the bit to travel with teenagers. Which I don't think makes them bad people. So our son really enjoys hanging out with his siblings (well, most of them...). He has a very close relationship with The Trio (as we call our 12,14,16yo dds). He planned the initial trip for the 16yo for her bday in Feb. and the cost was to be lower as it was closer to where we live, airfare was less, etc. He decided on Boston when the first trip fell through. He knew the cost as we all discussed the options and looked into details like airfare/lodging costs. So he knew back in May what he was getting into. We were also very taken back when he first presented the trip for his sister and shared some concerns, but he doesn't live at home (he actually lives with our oldest dd and her husband) so the decision was ultimately his to make. He was not asking us to help with that trip. It wasn't until the second dd was added to the trip that we kicked in money which, again, was to his benefit. As for him having the means to pay...he should have the means. He should have banked literally thousands of dollars at this point. But he apparently has blown through his money on who knows what?? I know about the eating out and movies but for goodness' sake, if I was in his position (working, incredibly low cost of living) I would sock money away as fast as I could. He's not in school (grrrrr) but since he is working and not coming to us for financial help we figured he had the trip covered. Quote I know lots of people in their mid to late 20's who are still going on all family trips on the parents' dime. Unless a trip is school related we don't pay once our kids graduate high school. Our ds knows that so the expectation for him to pay for his costs (and that of his sister's which he himself expressed he would) were clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 Quote He must have some very good qualities. After all, you trusted him to travel alone for six weeks with two of your daughters last year and were going to let them travel together again this year. I would try to focus on the good qualities and make sure he knows how much you appreciate those. Hopefully with time, maturity, and life experience, he will experience growth in other areas. He does have some very good qualities and yes, we trust him with our girls. I didn't even blink at the thought of them being in D.C., Philly, NYC, etc. when they were with him. But the financial issue is huge, especially as my dh and I abhor debt of any kind or having others not trust us with money. The fact that our ds made a decision so affecting my dh and our dd's is deeply hurtful, though. Trust has definitely been broken and opportunities like this won't be happening again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 Quote I would not have wanted to be chaperone to younger siblings at that age, no matter how much I was paid to do it and even less if I was expected to foot part of the bill. I realize that I am an outlier here on this thread. The problem though is he didn't say that up front but then dragged his feet and when called on it, blew up. Our son really and truly does enjoy being with his sisters, which is why the decision he made is so very hurtful. He wasn't going on this trip as a chaperone (and was 100% willing/excited to do so last year). This was more a fun, let's get away kind of trip. They would have had a great time as they always do. Thinking on what we see in our ds we feel that he is one who allows pride to win over common sense. Even in conversation if I offer an idea/opinion he usually counters it even if his argument makes no sense. He just has to be right which means everyone else has to be wrong. So even if our request for money was right, we were "wrong" and he responded as he did. And then went on a trip anyway. And that's what has me in tears today. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 My youngest just woke up so I'm off and running. But a very quick 'thank you' to everyone's input/advice. It's been a hard day but you've given me lots to think about. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 If I were in that situation at that age, I'd have been excited to go on the trip with my sibling (and my brother is significantly younger like that) and maybe even would have been the one proposing it... but in the end, it doesn't mean that I'd have had the motivation and money to really make it happen. Same thing with in the moment, I enjoyed being around my little siblings... but if it came to making a choice between them and grown up friends vying for my time, I'd have usually not chosen them. I wonder if taking it out of his control by planning and paying for parts of it on your end maybe changed the dynamic. Or adding another sibling. It definitely seems like something went awry. Obviously his treatment of you was petty and childish. But I have a hunch his side of the story would feel very different. I think your expectations of him are just slightly out of line with the lives most 22 yos are living. And since he's an adult, just backing off having him on these sorts of trips or sharing costs for things seems like a good thing for both of you. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, BakersDozen said: He does have some very good qualities and yes, we trust him with our girls. I didn't even blink at the thought of them being in D.C., Philly, NYC, etc. when they were with him. But the financial issue is huge, especially as my dh and I abhor debt of any kind or having others not trust us with money. The fact that our ds made a decision so affecting my dh and our dd's is deeply hurtful, though. Trust has definitely been broken and opportunities like this won't be happening again. Have the siblings he is close to and he disappointed and hurt expressed to him their feelings about his behavior towards all of the effected family members, including you and your husband? Given the close nature of their relationship and his age and maturity level, hearing it from them might have more of an impact. That’s not to say I don’t think you shouldn’t share your feelings with him. Edited September 16, 2019 by Frances 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 43 minutes ago, happysmileylady said: Ok ok, wait, your son works IN the bank? (I am presuming that his bank accounts are with the same bank he works at.) Well that certainly adds a whole other level of frustration. Having said that, I still probably would have just stopped by the bank on a day I knew he was going to be at work. Just so much less drama than all this other stuff. I think that’s super nice of you. But I don’t think it means there’s less drama. It just means you dealt with the drama instead of him. Which hey if that doesn’t annoy the ever lovin’ crap out of you to have to do that all the time for someone - that’s great. For you. But it’s really not okay to treat people like that. I bet you’d feel bad if someone else had to do that for you. I bet you’d feel a bit sheepish about it and try not to do that again. And if that other person didn’t or couldn’t just handle it for you - I bet you wouldn’t treat them like poop for it. I hope not anyways. For me, there’s zero drama. I said X was needed, reminded and asked if that was still going to work, and they just couldn’t manage even so. No hard feelings. Now I know better so I won’t set that situation up again. And oddly enough, knowing that seems to keep people from treating me that way. It happens but not often and not repeatedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I’m presuming that his plans weren’t just changed for him and he and sibling were asked what they thought of changing things. If not, well there’s a mess to clean up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 57 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said: Oh sorry, I misread that as he paid for that trip. 49 minutes ago, Frances said: I misunderstood then. I thought he had paid for the entire six week trip last year. I misunderstood, too! I feel sad for BakersDozen and I’m disappointed for her dds who were looking forward to a fun vacation with their brother. I think BakersDozen should definitely tell her dh exactly what happened. It’s not fair to keep that information from him. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) Is it possible your son might also have felt overwhelmed at having another sister for a big trip? He's only 22. "winner" isn't what I'd call him. agree your friend is an enabler of her own sons. Hopefully your son will "grow up". eta: why would you even consider not telling your dh? I'm confused on that point. Edited September 16, 2019 by gardenmom5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 OP, I am struck by the language you use to describe your son...and in describing your neighbor. I would have problems with his behavior, but you seem to note serious flaws in his character. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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