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Ktgrok

This would be petty and non productive, right?

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I'm SO tired of having to tell my kids everything a half a zillion times! I'm about to make a chart for each where I mark down every time I have to say something multiple times, to show them why I'm so frustrated. Maybe also record when they respond the first time? 

Is that something that would be eye opening for them, or just annoying and negative and I'm being passive aggressive?

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Does making charts bring you incredible joy? 😉

Because I can’t really imagine that keeping a chart will have much of an effect on your kids. 

But I can understand why you would want to do it!

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One thing my kids hate: I make them repeat back what I just said.  Seriously.  They don't get to move on until they repeat it back.  That one thing has eliminated so much frustration when they're in head-in-the-clouds phases. 

The charts I save for my actions. 😄  I put one up by the bathroom door and made a checkmark every time I walked by and turned off the light.  It took about a week, but they got the hint!

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I would make them a chart (well, list, maybe laminated if it's the same things every day) of stuff they have to do and structure rewards around that (ie: no screen time until your list is done), PLUS make them repeat after you what they need to do.

And break the list into steps.  Instead of "Clean your room" say "make the bed, hang up clean clothes, put dirty clothes in hamper, put away books, put away toys," etc.

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I’m the wrong person to ask. I’ve been fighting the urge all morning to send my teen a Venmo request for a Forgotten Item Fee after delivering a left-at-home lunch for the third time in as many weeks. 

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Gotta love EF issues.

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Maybe also record when they respond the first time? 

Yes, only this. Don't record the negative, unless you're gathering data for yourself to use better strategies and see that your plan is working. LOL

So yes, making marks, rewarding, incentivizing what you want more of is a great thing. Do that. Big. Like stars toward ice cream cones. Movie tix. Swim suits. Swanky clothes from nifty stores. Whatever. Earn bucks, $1 every time you obey the first time.

And maybe for yourself, speak less, kwim? Or give yourself a time in and more chocolate. You deserve it. :biggrin:

Edited by PeterPan
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28 minutes ago, Katy said:

I would make them a chart (well, list, maybe laminated if it's the same things every day) of stuff they have to do and structure rewards around that (ie: no screen time until your list is done), PLUS make them repeat after you what they need to do.

And break the list into steps.  Instead of "Clean your room" say "make the bed, hang up clean clothes, put dirty clothes in hamper, put away books, put away toys," etc.

I love this. I need this for myself lol 

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29 minutes ago, Katy said:

I would make them a chart (well, list, maybe laminated if it's the same things every day) of stuff they have to do and structure rewards around that (ie: no screen time until your list is done), PLUS make them repeat after you what they need to do.

And break the list into steps.  Instead of "Clean your room" say "make the bed, hang up clean clothes, put dirty clothes in hamper, put away books, put away toys," etc.


This, too.  We have notecards in our house.  The youngest keeps his on his dresser. At the top is the job, underneath is everything I'm looking for to say the job is done.

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1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

Does making charts bring you incredible joy? 😉

Because I can’t really imagine that keeping a chart will have much of an effect on your kids. 

But I can understand why you would want to do it!

ITA. Sounds like more work for you Katie with little effect. At least in my house, kids aren't great as seeing more work for Mom as any sort of negative, so they'd probably shrug off the chart. 

I tend to tie things to screens or similar motivations like bedtime. "Hey, I notice I'm having to repeat myself a bit too much lately. Seems like screen time is affecting your listening skills. We need to cut back obviously, and maybe go to bed earlier so you don't have such a hard time paying attention." 

Now, that didn't work for oldest because she didn't HAVE a screen really, and couldn't have cared less about TV. It's a lot harder with kids where motivations aren't so obvious. I went old school and made her write sentences.  But I do like the repeating things suggestion. That would have worked well for her had i done that I think. (Although it might have been accompanied by an eye roll.) 

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2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I'm SO tired of having to tell my kids everything a half a zillion times! I'm about to make a chart for each where I mark down every time I have to say something multiple times, to show them why I'm so frustrated. Maybe also record when they respond the first time? 

Is that something that would be eye opening for them, or just annoying and negative and I'm being passive aggressive?

So, our family counselor is okay with a certain amount of eye opening strategies like this. But I think this one might need tweaking to get the desired result.

Maybe you can set aside a certain number of pennies, nickels, whatever your affordable meaningful currency is, per day, for each child. This is their "repeat" budget. Every time you have to repeat yourself, they lose one of the coins, but at the end of the day, they get to keep whatever is left. You don't go in the hole, lol! Also, you might start with 25 pennies, but then when they get better but still need help, make it 5 nickels. Something of that sort.

I used this strategy with grocery shopping--my kids would drive me nuts and ask a million questions, complain, ask for something off list in EVERY aisle, etc. Getting to keep coins did help. I could've been more consistent, but when I did it, it was a big hit.

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It depends on the age of the child and what you are asking. Something like, put your shoes on now is different than saying, "take out the trash" today when said child is in the middle of something and just forgets. 

I find lists work best for myself, my husband, and my children. They can make a habit of checking off a list. They will forget if I just tell them. I forget things too. I have used email, charts, and when our house was shook apart by the quake the whiteboard on the wall. Everyone had a column and yes I took time to write ALL my stuff on the wall too so they could see what had to happen. We became a team. I wanted them to see I wasn't just telling everybody elset o just do everything and they could see my list was the longest. DH also works all day but he got a list too. 

 

If they are being outright disobediant then I wouldn't mind keeping a chart and saying, "Ok, I had to spend this much time and energy helping you with your responsability so you can do x (chore of choice) for me to make up for it and we can just help each other."

 

I have found with my children it usually was a matter of learning how to remember and fit things into their day rather than outright disobediance. 

 

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I should clarify, this is things like, "Breakfast is ready, please come eat" and they don't. Or "we are starting school - I'm running to the bathroom, you can too, but then meet me at the school table" or "please let the dog in". 

1 hour ago, Katy said:

 

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I agree.  I'd penalize with an extra chore.  Or possibly placing their favorite thing in JAIL (locked in the safe) for wasting my time, to be bailed out only by performing said chore.

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Or just enact natural consequences.  Breakfast is at 8.  Be here in time or eat nothing.

Late for school?  Too bad.  You just earned yourself the real-school punishment of detention.

 

It might be easier to just start everything an hour later.

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1 hour ago, Katy said:

Or just enact natural consequences.  Breakfast is at 8.  Be here in time or eat nothing.

Late for school?  Too bad.  You just earned yourself the real-school punishment of detention.

 

It might be easier to just start everything an hour later.

Yep. This. I do extra math or handwriting worksheets if anything to do with school crops up- in our house it’s mostly for interruptions. Here, since you aren’t busy, might as well do another worksheet! NOOOOOOO! And they disappear LOL. 

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When dd20 was in early elementary, she started whining constantly. I would try to talk to her about it but she insisted she wasn't as bad as I said she was. Soooo....I put a piece of paper on the refridgerator. Every time she whined, I had her stop what she was doing and make a simple hash mark on the paper. It was a way for her to tally the amout of times she whined. Then she had to repeat what she said, without whining.  It only took about 3 days, and then we were able to stop. Having the visual of all the hash marks, that she made herself (no way to say someone added more) was all it took to almost completely stop the problem.

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I made a tally chart of each time they complained one day when it was really getting to me.  They were kind of stunned at how many times there were in an hour and then started making up silly complaints to try to increase the score.  It did work.

was it petty?  Maybe

but nowhere near as petty as some things they were complaining about!

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I wonder if it would be more effective to make a laminated chore chart with the daily stuff they need to do.  Then anytime a kids Mucking around you send them back to the chart until it’s all checked off.

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Hmm. With your examples, I might just give them more autonomy and let them live with the consequences. 

"Breakfast is ready. School will start at 9 and you need to have eaten by then." Let them decide when to eat. Put it away if they aren't there. Give them a snack break around 10:30 in case they didn't make it. 🙂

"Let the dog in, please." Then let them let the dog in. Dogs have a way of insisting on being let in if no one does. Just don't do it for them. 

If they can't or didn't meet you at the table at your starting time, just do all the school you were going to,and cut right into their free time after school. "Why are we going so late? "Because we started late because you didn't get here at the normal starting time, and I decided to let you take responsibility for that--I am reminding you too much, it's irritating me, and I'm just going to give you that job." 

 

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This might sound sort of simplistic and only pertains to younger kids but I read the original Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle books to my kid when they were little, and I really believe they helped with behavior like this.  I'm remembering one story about the boy who loves animals but forgets to do all the chores when Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle leaves him alone at her farm.  To this day as teens and olders, they tease each other about being like a particular character if one of them is "having a moment."

Not petty.  When Mama ain't happy....

Edited by Harpymom
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We weren't as consistent as we should have been, but a chore chart tied to rewards worked best for us (when we were being consistent!).  Finish all the chores next to your name before video games, or before something fun, or before allowance.

"What do you need to do before you get this remote?"  I didn't have to tell them, they just went to the chore chart.

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In my experience, the act of counting a behavior, is often enough to change the behavior.  Partially because it's a way to tell the kids what you want without calling them out.  And partially because it can help draw your own attention to what's going well.  

So, I probably would make a chart.  A simple one that wasn't attached to kids' names.  I'd sit the kids down, and say "I've noticed this and it seems to be a pattern, so I'm just going to count and see what's going on.  When someone is asked to do something, and they do it the first time, I'm going to make a mark over here.  When someone is supposed to do something, and they forget or get distracted, I'm going to make a mark over here.  After we have a bunch of marks, we'll see if there's a problem we need to solve.  If you notice that I tell you I'm going to do something, and then I do or don't you can make a mark for me too!"

And then, when I remembered (which would be like 1/4 of the time, so this isn't really data), I'd quietly make a mark.  And because I was doing so, I'd be more likely to notice patterns in me, like that my kids listen better if I say their name first, or that before they eat is harder but they do better if I have them repeat back, or that it's really only one of my kids doing this. And because my kids are competitive in nature, they'd notice which line was longer and they'd want the "good" line  that they are all contributing to to be longer, so they'd be listening better. 

Then, after a while, when the chart was full, I'd take it down, and think about whether there was still a problem, and go from there. 

I am doing something right now to change my own behavior.  I was falling into a rut where I was offering DS1 and DS3 the same foods over and over.  So, I put a paper on the fridge where I made a list of every different kind of fruit or vegetable I offered them over the course of a week.  And the fact that the paper is there, keeps it in my mind, so when I'm looking in the fridge, instead of thinking "carrots are easy", I think "Oooh, I haven't served them peppers this week."  or if I'm at the grocery store, I think "I could write beets on my list", and I buy them and serve them.  Interestingly, DS3 who is my pickiest eater, has noticed the chart.  He asked me if I'm writing down what he eats and I said "No, I'm writing down what I offer.  I trust you to choose what's right for you body."  But somehow the fact that I think beets are important enough to write down seems to be motivating him to try things, and he's eaten things that I didn't think he would this week.  

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I don't know if you are a Charlotte Mason person, but I listened to a bunch of Simply Charlotte Mason podcasts yesterday and this one seemed really timely to your thread! It's from this week. For some reason my podcast copy and paste isn't working, but I found the blog/videoblog version to link here. This has some ideas on how to incrementally work with kids who struggle with this so that eventually you aren't repeating yourself. 

https://simplycharlottemason.com/blog/your-questions-answered-not-repeating-yourself/

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What I love about charts is that the chart can be the bad guy. 

“I finished all of my school work, can I get on the computer?” “Hmm, I’m not sure, check the chart to see if you got it all!”

“I cleaned the bathroom” “it’s looking good, but let’s check the chart...”

”I’m ready for a bedtime story!” “Did you get all of the jobs done, let’s check the chart!”

Our kids are older now, but when they were  little we had a “get ready for the day” chart with words and pictures spelling out all of the morning wake up stuff  - we used those charts through middle school! “Are you sure you are ready? Check the chart and go brush your teeth...” 

We used school charts and chore charts and practice charts (music) and bedtime charts. Mostly charts remind me to remember to help them do the things I should help them to do, but would otherwise forget...

i prefer smaller specific charts over one great chart to rule them all!

ps - my 16 year old son (and I) could use a couple new charts....

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I've threatened my kids with this a thousand times.  But I am too lazy to follow through, LOL.

Just don't get me started.  It could go on all day.

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We use charts only as reminders of things to be done.

Failure to come when called results in me ending up next to you in <2 min. When I call, the correct response is, “Yes, ma’am” or “Coming!” or “Turning off the computer now”—-some kind of verbal acknowledgment that they heard and are immediately obeying.

 

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Fwiw, for my kids with severe ADD and auditory processing issues and poor working memory, I try not to shout verbal instructions across the house that are more than 3-4 words. 

This morning: “Teeth, packed lunch, backpack” Those are all verbal cues to tasks they have done repetitively. No need for a lengthy explanation, but they can mentally rehearse that until they have completed those things.

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I have been considering hanging a sign in the hall coming from their room, hanging from the ceiling so it will hit their head if they ignore it.  "Did you __?  Did you ___?..."  But you know they would just blindly walk around it after the first couple trips down the hall.

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