Weighted GPA Necessary?

[Mom0012]

 Am I hurting my student by not including a weighted GPA? A lot of the classes she has taken I would consider honors-level classes such as Lukeion (because of the pace) and CLRCs Great Books courses (because of the content). However they are not explicitly labeled honors on the website so I’m going back-and-forth on what classes to label honors or not. I’m thinking I will call them honors on my course descriptions but not on the transcript so I don’t have to think about it anymore. This reduces her weighted gpa, so I’m thinking of just reporting a regular unweighted gpa. Good idea or bad?

My biggest concern with labeling them honors classes is that they are not labeled that way on the Lukeion website or the CLRC website. Now I am pretty sure if I contacted the individual teachers they would say that they are honors level classes. I just don’t want it to look like I’m trying to pad her transcript or be dishonest in any way..

[catz]

I don't think so.  Many colleges that use weighted have their own formula and recalculate anyway.  And many schools have unique scales.  I think it's fair to label classes honors that you consider beyond the scope of a standard high school sequence.  I think for homeschoolers, most schools are probably much more concerned that outside verification lines up with any other info you provide (test scores, AP, CLEP, DE, outside classes, etc).  

We just provided a regular UW GPA.  And then I clearly labelled honors and DE and AP on the transcript and in course descriptions.  Seemed to go fine that way.  I felt like stuff that was labelled honors spelled that out pretty clearly in course description.  Like we read many more classics than a standard English sequence would and I included a book list.

[GoodGrief]

Generally, no, it won't hurt the student. Just be clear as to what the coursework entails.

[Lori D.]

Well, I have seen a few people on these boards say "yes" -- that not using weighted grades DID hurt their students when it came to scholarships awarded on GPA, when the college wasn't looking deeper at the transcripts. BUT, all of those cases were about AP and DE (rather than Honors) -- and the students had a *lot* of those college level options on the transcript, so it was a big point difference in GPA.

An option might be to include both the weighted AND unweighted cumulative GPA on the transcript, and allow colleges to see both.

[lewelma]

I was told for scholarships that the schools have their own formulas for weighting, so they have to know the level of the class to put it in the formula properly.  So I labeled everything on the transcript with little superscript letters. I doubt they would dig through course descriptions when doing the formula. My superscripts were something like: 

U: 'university level' if it was a homegrown course that was beyond high school (high end combinatorics or number theory for example, or his music diploma)

A: AP equivalent (I'm in NZ so not AP, but at that level)

H: Honors 

VUW: Taken at our local university

AoPS: through AoPS

Then I put the unweighted GPA on the transcript with the words "unweighted GPA" next to it.  DS did get a scholarship to CM, but I have no idea if it mattered how I did it.  But it did make me feel better.  🙂

Edited September 8, 2019 by lewelma

[teachermom2834]

My dc apply mostly to schools that use a weighted GPA for automatic scholarships. Some just take whatever weighted GPA you give at face value. Others recalculate a GPA according to their own formula. I used to not want to deal with designating courses Honors or weighting but after going through it twice I am making sure that failing to designate courses or weight grades does not hurt my student with automatic aid.

How it is playing out in my house is that I still don't designate Honors.  My ds has taken mostly online courses and I'm really not sure how to determine Honors and I'm not that invested in finding out.  My dc all have had enough de courses that get weighted to make up for not using an Honors designation. So after two years of courses my 16 yo has a 4.0 GPA. Now that he has started de he will have a higher weighted GPA (assuming good grades).

If your dc has a 4.0 it really doesn't matter. I've never seen a scholarship require higher than a 4.0. But there are some scholarships and honors programs that require a 4.0 or very close. My older boys had a sprinkling of Bs on their transcipts so that weighting made up for that. 

So I've kind of come down in the middle. I don't do Honors because I'm not sure what my ds has done would be considered Honors level and I'm not really interested in trying to prove it is. But there still is weighting because quite a bit of de goes into the equation and that is weighted even more heavily. If my next child does not do de I will probably go to the trouble of designating Honors courses. 

The large public universities we have had our dc apply to just look at the transcript and apply a formula. They are not digging into it and assessing the level on their own. Maybe they do for the big competitive scholarships but not for admission or automatic merit aid.

[daijobu]

I believe I have a responsibility to provide colleges reasons to admit my student, and to that end present my student in the best light.  So yes I provided a weighted GPA because her schedule is full of honors type classes.  I grouped the following as honors (and described it in my school profile):  AP, AoPS, university level or as described by the instructor. 

I would have a hard time calling it honors if the vendor does not, but then again, I can see why you, as the principal of your school, are within your rights to do so.  

It would certainly be helpful if there is something in the course description that would buttress the assertion of honors level content and pacing.  Something objective that could act as trigger that you could point to that would bump it up to honors level.  

[katilac]

4 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Well, I have seen a few people on these boards say "yes" -- that not using weighted grades DID hurt their students when it came to scholarships awarded on GPA, when the college wasn't looking deeper at the transcripts. BUT, all of those cases were about AP and DE (rather than Honors) -- and the students had a *lot* of those college level options on the transcript, so it was a big point difference in GPA.

 

Not all - in our district, standard honors classes also get weighted. My kids had both honors and DE classes that were weighted in line with our local school district. And we did have colleges specifically tell us that the weighted GPA was used for scholarship qualifications, so not weighting could definitely cost a considerable amount of money. At one preview event, some students were from a district that did not weigh grades at all, which pushed some of them to a lower scholarship category.  

Having weighted grades will never hurt you, unweighted grades might. Many schools will recalculate, and that's fine. But if you wind up with one school on the list that accepts weighted grades for scholarships, you might be in for a world of monetary hurt if your GPA is unweighted. 

Schools are not cross-checking every outside provider simply to see if classes are listed as honors. If a school goes to the trouble of checking out your outside providers for admission purposes, they will not disagree about Lukeion being honors. Only competitive colleges and/or programs would possibly even delve that deep, and even then it's not likely. They are going to look at your course description first. Absolutely no one is going to go, hmm, Wheelock's as a text and translations in third year, this honors class is clearly bogus, lol. 

Mom0012, if a class would be considered honors within your local school district, then it should be marked that way on the transcript and weighted accordingly (however your local district would do it). The only exception would be if your outside provider has an honors option that you choose not to take; in that case, do not mark it honors even if it ranks that way locally. 

[Kassia]

Our district does not weight grades so we never did either.  I just made sure classes were labeled as honors or DE.  I've heard that colleges recalculate GPA anyway so it wouldn't matter.  

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

If you choose not to include a weighted GPA beside to mark it as unweighted.  Do not assume that an admissions committee will know that automatically.  FWIW I included both. For weighted courses I chose to use those indicated by the curriculum provider as honors, college level, or AP courses.  In the case of Lukeion, I believe that beginning with Latin 3 they were considered honors courses.

[Lori D.]

And for even more thoughts/ experiences about "whether to weight or not to weight grades, that is the question..." (lol), check out some of the linked threads in the big thread "High School Motherlode #2", pinned at the top of the high school board. PAGE 1 of that pinned thread has all kinds of helps on transcript and record keeping topics such as credits, grading, GPA, etc.

GPA scale (weighted and unweighted discussion)
Transcript: weighted or unweighted? 
Weighted GPA for Honors class? 
If you weight GPA, what is the weighted scale?
Weighted transcript (explanation; how to calculate it) 

What makes a class "Honors"? 
Honors courses: what is required for the label? 
Did you know that Honors courses have more ‘weight’ on a transcript? 

[Mom0012]

3 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

My dc apply mostly to schools that use a weighted GPA for automatic scholarships. Some just take whatever weighted GPA you give at face value. Others recalculate a GPA according to their own formula. I used to not want to deal with designating courses Honors or weighting but after going through it twice I am making sure that failing to designate courses or weight grades does not hurt my student with automatic aid.

How it is playing out in my house is that I still don't designate Honors.  My ds has taken mostly online courses and I'm really not sure how to determine Honors and I'm not that invested in finding out.  My dc all have had enough de courses that get weighted to make up for not using an Honors designation. So after two years of courses my 16 yo has a 4.0 GPA. Now that he has started de he will have a higher weighted GPA (assuming good grades).

If your dc has a 4.0 it really doesn't matter. I've never seen a scholarship require higher than a 4.0. But there are some scholarships and honors programs that require a 4.0 or very close. My older boys had a sprinkling of Bs on their transcipts so that weighting made up for that. 

So I've kind of come down in the middle. I don't do Honors because I'm not sure what my ds has done would be considered Honors level and I'm not really interested in trying to prove it is. But there still is weighting because quite a bit of de goes into the equation and that is weighted even more heavily. If my next child does not do de I will probably go to the trouble of designating Honors courses. 

The large public universities we have had our dc apply to just look at the transcript and apply a formula. They are not digging into it and assessing the level on their own. Maybe they do for the big competitive scholarships but not for admission or automatic merit aid.

Okay, so the bolded takes some of the pressure off.

I feel like I know which of my dd’s classes should be labeled honors. Those classes were, by far, more challenging than anything taken at the cc, which gets weighted like AP classes. It’s just bugging me that these particular providers don’t label their classes that way on their websites, probably because it’s just not on their radar or it’s not important to them. And I am sharing links for these providers in my school profile.

[Mom0012]

2 hours ago, katilac said:

Not all - in our district, standard honors classes also get weighted. My kids had both honors and DE classes that were weighted in line with our local school district. And we did have colleges specifically tell us that the weighted GPA was used for scholarship qualifications, so not weighting could definitely cost a considerable amount of money. At one preview event, some students were from a district that did not weigh grades at all, which pushed some of them to a lower scholarship category.  

Having weighted grades will never hurt you, unweighted grades might. Many schools will recalculate, and that's fine. But if you wind up with one school on the list that accepts weighted grades for scholarships, you might be in for a world of monetary hurt if your GPA is unweighted. 

Schools are not cross-checking every outside provider simply to see if classes are listed as honors. If a school goes to the trouble of checking out your outside providers for admission purposes, they will not disagree about Lukeion being honors. Only competitive colleges and/or programs would possibly even delve that deep, and even then it's not likely. They are going to look at your course description first. Absolutely no one is going to go, hmm, Wheelock's as a text and translations in third year, this honors class is clearly bogus, lol. 

Mom0012, if a class would be considered honors within your local school district, then it should be marked that way on the transcript and weighted accordingly (however your local district would do it). The only exception would be if your outside provider has an honors option that you choose not to take; in that case, do not mark it honors even if it ranks that way locally. 

That does kind of put it in perspective. I feel quite confident that the Lukeion and CLRC Great Books classes are honors level. The CLRC teacher recommends three credits for one year of GB — Lit, history and composition.

[Kassia]

15 minutes ago, Mom0012 said:

 

I feel like I know which of my dd’s classes should be labeled honors. Those classes were, by far, more challenging than anything taken at the cc, which gets weighted like AP classes

 

My dd says that her homeschool classes were way more work than any of her DE classes!  I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing!  

[Mom0012]

2 hours ago, JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst said:

If you choose not to include a weighted GPA beside to mark it as unweighted.  Do not assume that an admissions committee will know that automatically.  FWIW I included both. For weighted courses I chose to use those indicated by the curriculum provider as honors, college level, or AP courses.  In the case of Lukeion, I believe that beginning with Latin 3 they were considered honors courses.

I can’t find anything on Lukeion’s website that says “honors”. My dd started with them halfway through Latin 3 in 9th grade and I’m not even including Latin I and II in her gpa.

 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Mom0012

[Mom0012]

I am uploading my dd’s Course descriptions and transcript to the counselor portion of the common app either tomorrow or Tuesday. Then, we are submitting her first round of applications. So, I am going to make a decision soon and be done with it.

[Mom0012]

22 minutes ago, Kassia said:

 

My dd says that her homeschool classes were way more work than any of her DE classes!  I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing!  

Same here. The DE classes have actually been easier than any other classes she’s taken anywhere. My ds took two DE classes this summer and was quite shocked at how easy they were.

[lewelma]

12 minutes ago, Mom0012 said:

Same here. The DE classes have actually been easier than any other classes she’s taken anywhere. My ds took two DE classes this summer and was quite shocked at how easy they were.

My councilor letter discussed this fact.  DS did all home-based classes in 11th and 12th grade because the local university courses were so easy that he got a A+s in second year math classes as a 15 year old. When the mean and median were 60%, he earned 100% and did this twice. So I discussed how he was more interested in learning at his level and pushing himself, than earning credits from an institution. I felt the need to support his unusual transcript with data and explanations as to why he chose the path he did. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by lewelma

[lewelma]

22 minutes ago, Mom0012 said:

I am uploading my dd’s Course descriptions and transcript to the counselor portion of the common app either tomorrow or Tuesday. Then, we are submitting her first round of applications. So, I am going to make a decision soon and be done with it.

Congrats!  You are almost there!

[...................]

Why not calculate weighted and unweighted and put both on transcript?

But, IMO if you had to choose and your child took a lot of HOnors classes, or AP or DE, I think you do do them a disservice by not including weighted GPA.  The last college I spoke with regarding my daughter said GPA is the number one determining factor over and above the type of class, with SAT's a close second factor.  She explained that in my dd's case the fact that she does NOT have many honors and AP doesn't affect her too poorly because she got mostly A's and therefore her GPA is close to 3.8 right now...(junior year is much harder so we will see how that changes things.)  But of course, if she had gotten mostly A's in AP classes her GPA would be above 4.0.  But they said that they do take above-4.0 weighted GPA's kind of in one go-round, and then look at the SAT scores, and then the classes.  ...so in this circumstance a 4.5 doesn't get you too much farther than a 4.1....but a 4.1 gets you a lot farther than a 3.8...

BUT since you have control over your transcript just include both and make sure that you save the website calculator, or the math that you used in case anyone asks..but- they won't.

[Corraleno]

7 hours ago, Mom0012 said:

I can’t find anything on Lukeion’s website that says “honors”. My dd started with them halfway through Latin 3 in 9th grade and I’m not even including Latin I and II in her gpa.

At most schools, the point of labeling a course as "Honors" is to distinguish it from the non-honors version of the same course, so in that sense there's no point in Lukeion labeling their classes as Honors, because ALL of their courses are Honors level — they don't have an Honors Greek I class and a non-honors Greek I class to choose from. However, the courses were clearly referred to as Honors level in the letters of recommendation that DS received from Lukeion. If you saw what passes for "Honors" at most public schools these days, you would not hesitate to label them as Honors.

This is what I listed on the Common App as the criteria I used in determining which courses counted as Honors:

"Courses designated as Honors were those that (1) used college-level materials, (2) required significantly more work and deeper analysis than would normally be expected at a high school level, and (3) covered subjects in which standard high school courses could provide a basis for comparison."

ETA: I provided both a weighted and unweighted GPA, with DE weighted 1 point and Honors weighted a half-point. Some schools will recalculate a weighted GPA according to their own formula, but others will just look at whatever GPA they are given. And even the ones that reweight grades themselves are going to go by the labels you provide, so if their formula includes weighting honors classes and you haven't designated any honors classes, your student will be at a disadvantage compared to students whose transcripts include honors. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Corraleno

[Mom0012]

9 hours ago, Corraleno said:

At most schools, the point of labeling a course as "Honors" is to distinguish it from the non-honors version of the same course, so in that sense there's no point in Lukeion labeling their classes as Honors, because ALL of their courses are Honors level — they don't have an Honors Greek I class and a non-honors Greek I class to choose from. However, the courses were clearly referred to as Honors level in the letters of recommendation that DS received from Lukeion. If you saw what passes for "Honors" at most public schools these days, you would not hesitate to label them as Honors.

This is what I listed on the Common App as the criteria I used in determining which courses counted as Honors:

"Courses designated as Honors were those that (1) used college-level materials, (2) required significantly more work and deeper analysis than would normally be expected at a high school level, and (3) covered subjects in which standard high school courses could provide a basis for comparison."

ETA: I provided both a weighted and unweighted GPA, with DE weighted 1 point and Honors weighted a half-point. Some schools will recalculate a weighted GPA according to their own formula, but others will just look at whatever GPA they are given. And even the ones that reweight grades themselves are going to go by the labels you provide, so if their formula includes weighting honors classes and you haven't designated any honors classes, your student will be at a disadvantage compared to students whose transcripts include honors. 

I really like your wording for your honors course designation.  

I did just find something on the Lukeion website that said their Latin 5 and 6 was paced like a college 300/400 level class. I am sure that the Barrs consider them honors level. My concern is not whether they are honors or not, but whether it will be perceived that I am padding.    My dd’s Transcript looks a little over the top since she already had 5 language credits and 3 math credits by the end of middle school. I have scores and outside classes that validate her achievements, but I am concerned about giving the perception that I am not being 100% honest, even though I am trying to be very accurate. So, it’s this subjective stuff that’s throwing me. She has worked so hard, I feel a huge responsibility in documenting everything correctly. Thanks.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Mom0012

[Mom0012]

10 hours ago, Calming Tea said:

Why not calculate weighted and unweighted and put both on transcript?

But, IMO if you had to choose and your child took a lot of HOnors classes, or AP or DE, I think you do do them a disservice by not including weighted GPA.  The last college I spoke with regarding my daughter said GPA is the number one determining factor over and above the type of class, with SAT's a close second factor.  She explained that in my dd's case the fact that she does NOT have many honors and AP doesn't affect her too poorly because she got mostly A's and therefore her GPA is close to 3.8 right now...(junior year is much harder so we will see how that changes things.)  But of course, if she had gotten mostly A's in AP classes her GPA would be above 4.0.  But they said that they do take above-4.0 weighted GPA's kind of in one go-round, and then look at the SAT scores, and then the classes.  ...so in this circumstance a 4.5 doesn't get you too much farther than a 4.1....but a 4.1 gets you a lot farther than a 3.8...

BUT since you have control over your transcript just include both and make sure that you save the website calculator, or the math that you used in case anyone asks..but- they won't.

Okay, I will include a weighted gpa. That’s an easier decision for me than figuring out whether to label certain classes as honors. But, I think I’m going to go with labeling the Lukeion classes and the Great Books classes that way and then just add a little explanation about how I defined honors classes to my school profile. And then just let it go.🎈

Edited September 9, 2019 by Mom0012

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

14 hours ago, Mom0012 said:

I can’t find anything on Lukeion’s website that says “honors”. My dd started with them halfway through Latin 3 in 9th grade and I’m not even including Latin I and II in her gpa.

 

 

 

It took me a while to dig up... (Its been a few years since I had a kid in Latin 3.)

It was the tag line on the course evaluation/course description they were given at the end of the semester (for 3b). "Latin 3 may be counted as an Honors Course of study, and ample preparation for AP Latin (year 4)"  

I do not recall this appearing prior to Latin 3.  Hope that helps.

I weighted courses designated honors by the curriculum provider/instructor, AP courses that had received College Board approval (either my own or an outside provider's), and the few courses that were designated as college level by the course provider. I would have weighted a DE class as well but my kids didn't use dual enrollment.

Edited September 9, 2019 by JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst
additional info

[yvonne]

I did what Corraleno did for my two oldest and included both unweighted and weighted gpas on their transcripts. Also used +0.5 for "honors" classes, using the same metrics as she did, and +1.0 for AP/DE.   It seemed to work out well.

I figured if it mattered to anyone what the weighted GPA was, it was right there. They could look at it, ignore it, or recalculate it, if they wanted. I'm terrible about second guessing/worrying myself to death, so including both gpas on the transcript took care of that!

 

[FriedClams]

I did both and provided my scale for weighting. On the Coalition App there are 500 questions about the grading scale so it'll be covered. 

[Mom0012]

12 hours ago, FriedClams said:

I did both and provided my scale for weighting. On the Coalition App there are 500 questions about the grading scale so it'll be covered. 

Oh my gosh, yes. I am using the common app, but the section on the courses the student is taking has a drop down box for what type of class each one is, So, honors, advanced accelerated, college level, AP, regular and about 10 more options that I can’t remember but that made me wonder if I was picking the *right* thing.

[yvonne]

1 hour ago, Mom0012 said:

Oh my gosh, yes. I am using the common app, but the section on the courses the student is taking has a drop down box for what type of class each one is, So, honors, advanced accelerated, college level, AP, regular and about 10 more options that I can’t remember but that made me wonder if I was picking the *right* thing.

It's crazy, isn't it??  Makes me wonder how useful terms like "honors" or "accelerated" or even "college level" (coming from a high school) can possibly be.  I guess if there are 20 students applying from the same school, it might help to distinguish between them. Or, if the admissions folks have had experience with a school, they'd have a sense of what those terms mean _for that school_.
 

[Guest]

One thing I've had to point out to DD is that weighted grades DO exist and to show her weighting formulas. She was really worried about the number of scholarships based on GPA and feared getting a B with a passion, until I had her go through and calculate her GPA unweighted, weighting only DE at 5.0, and weighting how her equivalent classes would be weighted at our local PS (which weights DE and AP at 6.0 and honors at 5.0-and every high school class DD has done exceeds the syllabus for the honors classes offered through our local high school-which says more about them than about her)-and showed her that, yeah, she can afford a B or two-especially in a college class-and still qualify for the big scholarships at public schools, because the ones that want a 4.0 or higher also specify weighted GPA, and the ones that specify unweighted usually want more like a 3.75 or even a 3.5. It's fine for her to take hard classes and risk a slip.

[8filltheheart]

On 9/11/2019 at 7:39 AM, Mom0012 said:

Oh my gosh, yes. I am using the common app, but the section on the courses the student is taking has a drop down box for what type of class each one is, So, honors, advanced accelerated, college level, AP, regular and about 10 more options that I can’t remember but that made me wonder if I was picking the *right* thing.

Not to derail this thread, but I would contact the admissions officer at the schools and have this conversation. I have had to do that for SRAR boxes bc our courses don't correspond and it will matter when the GPA is computer generated according to their formula. 

[...................]

I used this calculator - 

https://gpacalculator.net/high-school-gpa-calculator/

"Regular classes will be given points according to the standard scale (A = 4, B = 3, C = 2). For Honors, grades will be increased by half a point. Grades for College / Advanced Placements / IB courses will be increased by a whole point."

This is very standard 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Calming Tea