Public school groan

[drjuliadc]

My 6 year old is in a brand new school building this year.  All the classrooms in a grade have room dividers open to each other.  They are planning on keeping them open. This sounds like the most birdbrained idea ever.

I just found this out yesterday when I attended his open house.  It was unbelievably loud.  The things they subject poor teachers to.

[Tree Frog]

I attended a public school for awhile in elementary that was in a round building with dividers for classrooms. I remember the noise, but what I really remember was the uproar when the pet hamster got out. It didn't just disturb one class, but the whole building! 

I agree with you. Big spaces with dividers for classrooms aren't good ideas!

[Earthmerlin]

6 hours ago, drjuliadc said:

My 6 year old is in a brand new school building this year.  All the classrooms in a grade have room dividers open to each other.  They are planning on keeping them open. This sounds like the most birdbrained idea ever.

I just found this out yesterday when I attended his open house.  It was unbelievably loud.  The things they subject poor teachers to.

They’re called open classrooms & I don’t like them either! We have a quiet household so my daughter finds them distracting & I, as a teacher, did as well. Yuck!

[Garga]

My church tried this for about 2 seconds when they were having to rebuild some classrooms.  For the various Sunday School classes, everyone was gathered in the gym at tables in various corners.  No one could hear their own teacher.  Everyone was squinty-eyed trying to hear and eventually everyone was trying to talk louder than everyone else to be heard in their corner of the gym.

It’s a horrible, horrible idea for a school!

[SKL]

In middle school, we had "quad" classrooms that had partial dividers between the rooms. 

I honestly don't recall it being an issue. 

But completely open as in no dividers at all?  How's that going to work for kids who already have trouble focusing on what's important?

I guess I would watch and see how it goes ... which is presumably the only choice you have anyway.  It might be all right.  If it's terrible, they can probably erect some dividers at some point.

[Wheres Toto]

We have a couple schools around here that are like that.  Evidently the idea is that the kids will learn to work with distractions faster if you maximize the distractions.   They don't really mention what they plan to do with the kids who CAN"T just learn to work with distractions due to learning disabilities or whatever.   Stupid idea in my opinion.

[Frances]

Personally, I could never function in that kind of environment. Whenever I see pictures of a typical lower elementary classroom, I get sensory overload just from all of the stuff hanging on the walls. Adding noise overload would really put things over the top. I work in a very quiet environment, and most of my coworkers still wear earbuds or headphones all day. 

It sounds like another instance of schools doing exactly the opposite of what research shows is best for learning.

[Terabith]

I student taught in a school where we had seven first grade classes in a row, with walls that extended maybe 7/8 of the length.  There was a hallway that run through the back of each classroom, so to get anywhere, we had to walk our class through the back of six other classrooms.  It worked a lot better than I expected it to, honestly, but it was NOT ideal.  It did make it easier to do things like know when another teacher needed help or to send kids to another classroom.  

[Storygirl]

My elementary school was set up as open concept. The first and second grades were in one wing and were open to each other. The third through fifth grades were all open and surrounded the library in the middle. No walls. Just bookshelves to set apart the library and movable bulletin board type dividers between all of the other classes.

To me, it was normal. I didn't know that all schools were not set up that way, until I was much older. The idea of having just one class per room seemed weird.

But I now think it is a terrible set up.

[Renai]

On 9/3/2019 at 9:07 PM, CuriousMomof3 said:

This idea was popular in the 1970's in the school district where I grew up, and where I taught.  By the 1980's everyone had figured out it was a bad idea, but it took them another 20 years or more to renovate and put up walls.

I can't imagine why someone would need to replicate that particular experiment.  

I was going to say the same thing. I remember my kindergarten being that way in the 70's. I remember reading research just a couple of years ago about its popularity and how it was proven to be a horrible idea. I didn't know they still did things like this!

[goldenecho]

UG.   I subbed in a school like this and it was bad.  Just too much noise.

 

[shawthorne44]

When I substitute taught, I had a buddy that was an uber-educator.  I asked him about that.  He said that when it was first studied, it wasn't like that.  Although from how he described it, it sounded worse.  There weren't the bookcase, etc. as dividers.   There wasn't any.    The idea was that all the teachers would be floating around all the classes and assisting where needed.  Although who did the lectures, I don't understand.  

I went to a completely sucky elementary school for 3rd-6th.    It had this.   It was horrible.   There was one tiny bright spot in that one year I was able to learn math by listening to the teacher in the next room.   They had me in the lowest math when I should have been in the highest math.   

 

[kiwik]

It was popular in the 1970's in NZ.  By the early 2000's they had all been divided (I saw a news item just before ds12 was thought of.  About 5 years they brought it back.  All new buildings are required to be "modern learning environments" which is basically 70's open plan with computers and more self directed and project work.  There are what they call break out spaces but not many and most kids are trying to learn with a chrome book on a bean bag while being told to "look it up on YouTube/Google/Khan Academy" when they ask questions.  

[shawthorne44]

10 hours ago, kiwik said:

It was popular in the 1970's in NZ.  By the early 2000's they had all been divided (I saw a news item just before ds12 was thought of.  About 5 years they brought it back.  All new buildings are required to be "modern learning environments" which is basically 70's open plan with computers and more self directed and project work.  There are what they call break out spaces but not many and most kids are trying to learn with a chrome book on a bean bag while being told to "look it up on YouTube/Google/Khan Academy" when they ask questions.  

 

So what do the teachers do?   Seems like kids might as well as stay home and use the home desktop. 

[Kassia]

10 hours ago, kiwik said:

It was popular in the 1970's in NZ.  By the early 2000's they had all been divided (I saw a news item just before ds12 was thought of.  About 5 years they brought it back.  All new buildings are required to be "modern learning environments" which is basically 70's open plan with computers and more self directed and project work.  There are what they call break out spaces but not many and most kids are trying to learn with a chrome book on a bean bag while being told to "look it up on YouTube/Google/Khan Academy" when they ask questions.  

 

Our school district has a huge levy on the ballot to build a new school for grade 6-12 that would have these spaces.  They complain that they can't teach like this in the smaller classrooms that are available now.  

 

[shawthorne44]

On 9/20/2019 at 1:21 PM, Kassia said:

 

Our school district has a huge levy on the ballot to build a new school for grade 6-12 that would have these spaces.  They complain that they can't teach like this in the smaller classrooms that are available now.  

 

 

Translation, they would like to easily increase the student/teacher ratio.   

[kiwik]

On 9/21/2019 at 6:10 AM, shawthorne44 said:

 

So what do the teachers do?   Seems like kids might as well as stay home and use the home desktop. 

They run groups for kids - IE I am doing a group on fractions at 11 for those interested.  Oddly the kids who are struggling don't always volunteer or in the case of one ASD kid I know understand that that they are supposed to go even though not specifically told (they will encourage a child who needs to attend but I am not sure they insist).  They sit at their desk, they wanter round talking to kids and keeping an eye out (though they never noticed half the kids had got round the internet filters.  Honestly I think it would be a great system it there was a 1 to five student/teacher ratio without the open plan thing.  But the teacher would need to be like one of those super on to it really effective unschoolers and our teachers aren't.  They boast that they will have succeeded when they do themselves out of a job but are outraged at the idea parents just use school as daycare.  If your child is not being taught and not really learning what is it but daycare?

 

They aren't allowed to stay home alone until 14 in NZ so working parents need the daycare in most cases.

[Shoeless]

My middle and junior high school was like this.  The original plan was completely open spaces.  The only area that was closed off was the band room.  The original idea was for the teachers to move freely around and "share ideas".  Even the science labs were completely open. 

That plan was ditched and the moved in cubicle walls.  It was always loud and chaotic. There was always some doofus kid launching paper balls over the cubicle walls.  I hated it.   From what I can tell, the school has never added more permanent walls.  I have no idea what the plan is for safety with regards to a school shooting. 😞 

[hs03842]

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Edited June 8, 2020 by JoyKM

[kiwik]

On 9/1/2019 at 10:16 AM, SKL said:

In middle school, we had "quad" classrooms that had partial dividers between the rooms. 

I honestly don't recall it being an issue. 

But completely open as in no dividers at all?  How's that going to work for kids who already have trouble focusing on what's important?

I guess I would watch and see how it goes ... which is presumably the only choice you have anyway.  It might be all right.  If it's terrible, they can probably erect some dividers at some point.

Ironically I think it would have worked better when I was a kid as we spent our time at our desks working quietly.  Now the kids move about and talk so much is is bedlam.

[Daniel-J]

The only conclusion is that change is needed. Time passes and the school hardly changes, it shouldn't be like that. Such institutions should be comfortable for all students and teachers.