lewelma Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 So is it worth the hassle? I have a big-picture, experimental-type kid, but he has a mom that is not really a weekly-get-all-that-stuff-out-and-make-a-mess facilitator. Also, the setup cost looks extreme. Is there a way to use just some of the labs to good benefit? And if so, which ones? That book is long, and I'd love it if someone has already identified all the good labs that don't require me to buy the fancy equipment. I do have quite a few chemicals here from an old chem kit, so it is most likely the equipment that is going to be a problem. Thoughts? Ruth in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintinative Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) I know there is a schedule where someone matched it up with Zumdahl https://sites.google.com/site/letsnotburnthehousedown/ One of the boardies posted it. I love the title of the blog. Maybe this would be helpful though? You will have to scroll back to see what labs she covered. ETA: It looks like I copied and pasted all of it into a Word file. If you want it, PM me and I will send it to you. She did not use all the labs. Also there is a discussion on here about how many labs are necessary. I am not sure of the exact titles but you could search for that. In the co-op class I have helped with we did some of the labs for Novare and we did some using a Microchem kit because the Microchem kit demonstrated the same concept without the expense (and mess?) Edited August 25, 2019 by cintinative 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 Thanks for that link! - very interesting. Will go see which labs they chose to do. We are doing homegrown inquiry based chemistry - so discovery of concepts through mucking around. As for the number of labs "required", we are in NZ, so not an issue. We will just do all the labs that we can get our hands on as he is keen to experiment first and build theoretical knowledge on top. Also, I can't get American Kits here as there are import restrictions, which is why I'm looking at setting up my own lab, but this book is incredibly overwhelming! So I'm really wondering what labs are in it that have easy to get equipment/chemicals. My older ds took an online chem course and they sent us glassware and a ton of chemicals (that we never used as he is theory driven and indifferent to labs). So I'm not quite clear yet, what would be worth purchasing. I need to chose the labs first, I guess. So looking for some BTDT advice. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, lewelma said: We will just do all the labs that we can get our hands on as he is keen to experiment first and build theoretical knowledge on top. Do you have a background in chemistry? The reason I ask is that I do, and I can't imagine just letting a kid experiment with chemicals without a solid (and I mean *really* solid) background first. Maybe I misunderstood what your plans are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted August 26, 2019 Author Share Posted August 26, 2019 Very good question. Thanks for asking. I got started typing, and it got kind of long. So oops. But it did help me identify what actually we are doing. Hopefully, it will lead to some good ideas from you guys! Well, I have a PhD in Mathematical Biology. Not completely relevant to Chemistry, but yes, I can pull this off. But it will take a decent amount of prep on my part. I worked with my older boy on this content 2 years ago, so somewhat fresh, but he just used a textbook. A theoretical approach at the start will NOT work with my younger son. He needs authentic learning, not book learning. I don't plan to let him just chuck a bunch of chemicals together. I do want to have some straight forward labs, but I'm looking to make them more investigative, rather than just demonstrations. Also, we plan to work backwards from industrial/biological/environmental issues towards the theoretical concepts. Kind of a ACS ChemComm approach. My plan is to spend 2 months just kind of seeing where rabbit trails lead us, and then starting a more theoretical approach. We have 2 years to get it done. I am not under an American system, so we can meander, and just make sure to prep for the 7 exams/papers that he will complete from now until November 2022. So for example, we started chemistry for the first time today with the Periodic Table of Videos (we watched Te, H, Li, K) and rabbit trails led us to : 1) what chemicals are in fire extinguishers and how do they can stop combustion depending on what is burning 2) How do nuclear bombs work with both the fission and fusion part 3) How does radiation work - alpha, beta, gamma 4) What are the 4 forces - strong, weak, gravitational, and electromagnetism 5) What are the 6ish types of reactions 6) What do orbitals look like for different atoms, and how to understand s, p, d That took us 1.5 hours. This kid is quick, but NEEDS bunny trails to learn. Right now I am more interested in engagement, than prepping him for a university science course that is teacher driven. I figure we can meander like this for 2 months, and he will have enough background knowledge to be able to hit the theory with clarity and purpose. At that point, I will focus on the industrial/bio/environmental uses of each topic we hit. I hope to put in as many labs as I can find that are actually useful and not just cook-book. Here are 7 assessments we must complete. 1) Redox: a deep understanding of how redox works in batteries resulting in a 2 paper typed paper written from memory. 2) A research paper analyzing a topic to an equivalent AP level, he is interested in ocean acidification, but my older son did the Chemistry of Fracking 3) Spectroscopy: a 2 page analysis of a very difficult graph! 4) Organic Chemistry: exam 5) Equilibrium: exam 6) Titration Lab write up (lab done at a school) 7) Qualitative Lab write up - identifying anions and cations (lab done at a school) 😎 Thermochemical properties: He will be skipping this exam, but still learning the content Hope that gives you a feel for what we must do, and how I think I can get it done. Open to suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Have you looked at the MEL Chemistry kits? I don't think they ship from the US, but that still might not resolve shopping issues. The kits are pricey but high quality, and inducing to rabbit trails. On the other hand, perhaps the Illustrated Guide folks can send you an abbreviated kit and you can source other chemicals locally as needed. I think you can purchase items individually somewhere in their website. They might also be able to help highlight which labs would be most useful to achieving the assessments you have listed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted August 26, 2019 Author Share Posted August 26, 2019 I didn't think to talk to the illustrated guide folks. Do they actually provide kits? I just got the pdf of the book and started looking through it, thinking, wow this is great but will cost a fortune. The aNZ ssessments are pretty standard chemistry with the exception of spectroscopy and Orgo from the point of view of an American Chem course. But if you think they would help me ID the labs that required the least equipment, so were the cheapest, that would be cool. I just hoped someone had looked through the book and made of list of the cheap ones to do. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie of KY Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Ruth Private message me and I'll send you a bunch of information that I typed up years ago. I'll also think on your actual question and send some specific ideas your way. I've taught the book out of my garage for years and have taken bunches of students completely through the book. It is expensive and time consuming, but I also think it's a bunch of fun. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted August 26, 2019 Author Share Posted August 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Julie of KY said: Ruth Private message me and I'll send you a bunch of information that I typed up years ago. I'll also think on your actual question and send some specific ideas your way. I've taught the book out of my garage for years and have taken bunches of students completely through the book. It is expensive and time consuming, but I also think it's a bunch of fun. Cool! I bet it has been fun! One thing I need to consider is that I live in a 600sq ft apartment, so we will be using the kitchen bench! It is metal, so I don't have to worry too much about damaging the countertops. 🙂 But space and clean up will be an issue. Thanks for your help! PMing now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted August 26, 2019 Author Share Posted August 26, 2019 chemicals we have: sodium hydroxide sodium citrate sodium sulphate sodium ethanoate sodium hydrogen sulphate Potassium bromide potassium iodide potassium nitrate ammonium iron 2 sulphate ammonium iron 3 sulphate calcium carbonate citric acid magnesium sulphate copper sulfate Zinc sulphate magnesium zinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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