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New Puppy we are considering! Need list to buy and questions! UPDATE !!! SEPT 4, May 3 - PICTURES!!!


sheryl
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You can use a toy also on recall— (“come”)

if you toss it a bit behind you as she’s driving in (running) towards you it can help make a strong run on recall (“come”), rather than a slow dawdling return.  Later you can add having her stop right at you.  

 

I like to start the recall by having more than ore than one person with toys and treats call dog from person to person for reward of play she likes or treat she likes (mixing it up can keep it more interesting).

 

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1 minute ago, Pen said:

You can use a toy also on recall— (“come”)

if you toss it a bit behind you as she’s driving in (running) towards you it can help make a strong run on recall (“come”), rather than a slow dawdling return.  Later you can add having her stop right at you.  

 

I like to start the recall by having more than ore than one person with toys and treats call dog from person to person for reward of play she likes or treat she likes (mixing it up can keep it more interesting).

 

We do that game as well - the person to person thing. 

And for a solid "right at you" recall, throw the toy between your legs so puppy dives through them. Later add the sit in front. 

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22 hours ago, Pen said:

Lure is basically what the English word indicates.

If she can be taught to follow the end of the stick, then, say,

you want her to get in a vehicle — use the stick to lure her in (that is she follows the stick) 

you want her to jump over a low barrier—have her follow the stick

up on vet exam table —  follow the stick

onto a dog mat — follow stick

 

 

The lure is the "target" technique as shown in the video you sent?

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15 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

My dog is eight next week, we got him at 11 weeks old. In all that time he has consistently been bathed every 10-12 days. I used to use very expensive, specialty products that are typically only used for show dogs or other dogs who are kept in full coat (think products that are way more expensive than most people would think of buying for their own hair; these are not products you can walk into a pet store and buy). A few years ago I got tired of spending that much, having to special order, etc., and started using Pantene on him. There are quite a few show dog people who swear by either Pantene or Dove products for their dogs. Mine has done fine with Pantene, just as well as he did on the much more expensive products.

There is little/no truth to the idea that dogs need different products than humans due to pH levels. First of all, the range of pH levels in human products tends to be very close to the range found in dog products. Also, there's a range of skin pH among various dog breeds. This is the best article I'm aware of on the subject (make sure to click and read the link to the pH article from 2011).

Now--would I use a human product on a dirty dog who is only bathed every few months (most dogs who aren't bathed regularly are in fact very dirty, despite owners who claim otherwise)? No, I probably wouldn't. I don't know if a human product would adequately clean those dogs. I also probably wouldn't use a human product on a wire coated dog. But for dogs who aren't terribly dirty or smelly or wire haired -- I think human products work fine.

For fleas/ticks I use Nexgard.

For heart worms I use Heartgard.

ETA: In my long winded reply about shampoos I forgot to say -- If you prefer to use a dog specific product then just about anything you can pick up at Petsmart, Petco, etc. should work okay. I've liked all the TropiClean products I've used. Some Walmart stores (and maybe Target, too) usually stock a few Oster dog shampoos and I've liked them, too. I personally don't like Burt's Bees dog product line. The ones I've used are too watery and didn't seem to clean/fluff very well. But I need products that leave my dog's coat fluffy (makes clipping him better/easier), so what I need in a product may be different than what you need.

Thanks, Pawz!  I looked at Oster's dog shampoo the other day but it read on the front bottle (if my memory is correct) to not use on puppies.   We wash our dogs but we do take them in for grooming during the year but not often.  

 

 

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28 minutes ago, sheryl said:

The lure is the "target" technique as shown in the video you sent?

 

A lure is anything to lure the dog with.  

Could be a dog treat (edible), could be a toy, could be a special target stick the dog has been taught to follow...   but your dog seems ready to go for a stick with out extensively training her to do that. 

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10 hours ago, Pen said:

 

 

LabradortrainingHQ.com: 

 

Bathing Your Labrador Retriever

As mentioned, Labrador Retrievers have a short coat that’s very dense. This means you don’t typically have to get tangles or mats out and can go longer between grooming than you would be able to with other breeds. In fact, many owners of labs will only bathe their dogs a few times a year.

The exception to this rule would be if your pooch gets really dirty and simply must be cleaned. Labrador owners quickly learn this breed enjoys rolling around in dirt, mud, and questionable messes. You will want to give them a bath following these escapades.

Remember that bathing your pooch too often can dry their skin, laying a foundation for problems. This happens because Labradors have a special oil on their coat which works to prevent dry skin and protect them from dirt. Frequent washing will remove the oil leading to health problems

 

———

I added the underline and italics in last paragraph.    

If you do bathe her soon even just to get her used to it, be careful of temperature and not to let soap / shampoo get in her eyes if you use any

 

10 hours ago, Pen said:

Possibly chlorine would be a problem for the oils too.  We have non-chlorinated well water and non-chlorinated  creeks where dog goes swimming, so I don’t know about that part. 

PS I didn’t realize that the oils in fur for Labs and other breeds I have had might not apply to other dogs till I saw the Lab forum information  I quoted from. 

 

8 hours ago, Pen said:

https://www.labradortraininghq.com/labrador-health-and-care/labrador-retriever-grooming-overview/

joining some breed forums can be helpful  (or forums for training you’re interested in that’s training specific rather than breed specific, or raw feeding if you’re into doing that, or whatever)

 

8 hours ago, Pen said:

Thanks for these, Pen.  I pulled them up to read.  Have read some of what you read.  These I'll read tomorrow!  Appreciate your insight! 

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7 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Shampoo: i stick with mild, non drying shampoos in order to not strip the oils too much. My absolute favorite is hard to find - I often buy it by the gallon from a grooming supply place - it is called Bark 2 Basics Oatmeal. They make a ton but that is the one I've used and loved - it is unreal how much nicer my dog's coats are when I use it. Otherwise, never Hartz, and it has to not smell unbelievably strong cause that's mean. 

Heartworm - I use heartgard or a generic of it but also think Interceptor is a good product. 

Flea/Tick - nothing except on my flea allergic dog who gets various products - comforts or Nexgaurd usually. 

You seem pleased with the shampoo.  Thanks for the other info.  

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Just now, sheryl said:

You seem pleased with the shampoo.  Thanks for the other info.  

VERY much. I first tried it at a self service dog wash in a Tractor Supply. they had big jugs of it for use while washing your dog. Then they stopped using that there, and I had to hunt it down because it was so amazing. In fact, just tonight two different people commented on how shiny and soft my border collie's coat is now! 

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

You can use a toy also on recall— (“come”)

if you toss it a bit behind you as she’s driving in (running) towards you it can help make a strong run on recall (“come”), rather than a slow dawdling return.  Later you can add having her stop right at you.  

 

I like to start the recall by having more than ore than one person with toys and treats call dog from person to person for reward of play she likes or treat she likes (mixing it up can keep it more interesting).

 

 

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

We do that game as well - the person to person thing. 

And for a solid "right at you" recall, throw the toy between your legs so puppy dives through them. Later add the sit in front. 

To both - LOVE THIS IDEA!   THANKS!

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18 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

A lure is anything to lure the dog with.  

Could be a dog treat (edible), could be a toy, could be a special target stick the dog has been taught to follow...   but your dog seems ready to go for a stick with out extensively training her to do that. 

Honestly, how do you all know so much about this?  Or, how do I know so little?  LOL!  So, the lure is an object.  Then you use a command word.  Then the behavior.  Then the reward.  ????

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3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

VERY much. I first tried it at a self service dog wash in a Tractor Supply. they had big jugs of it for use while washing your dog. Then they stopped using that there, and I had to hunt it down because it was so amazing. In fact, just tonight two different people commented on how shiny and soft my border collie's coat is now! 

Would you recommend it for Shiloh?  Or, another? 

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5 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Would you recommend it for Shiloh?  Or, another? 

I don't know that it is a necessity to run out and buy immediately, but I can say I will continue to buy it, as it is that good. Also, looks like amazon now carries it! I also like that the fragrance isn't super strong and artificial smelling...most dog shampoos are overpowering. But mostly it makes my dogs super soft and shiny without being overly moisturizing to the point that they get dirty faster. Human shampoos seem to make mine get dirty faster - I think the oils/waxes/something in them attract dirt or something. 

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Thanks for both!  I do have another question - how much time should this 11.week old lab stay in a closed crate?   ALSO, many of you have suggested training in 10 minutes or so segments several times a day.   HOW many commands should we be teaching CONCURRENTLY? 

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Crate when she’s tired and sleeping (or you need to) and when you or someone else can’t actively supervise her. Let her be out with supervision as much of day as possible.  If she’s awake but you can’t supervise try to at least have her nearby and talk with her or otherwise interact.  For example if you are making dinner and can’t be ready to grab her at any moment you could have her crated near you.

how many skills she’s working on any day or week will depend on her and your abilities  ...  

generally I do something new (even if “new” is just improving on a started skill) plus work on all old skills every day at that age and would probably have house training, fetching if dog likes to, come, sit, nice leash walking and “leave it” started in first week...  then might add bite inhibition/child proofing and foot handling and nail trimming (even if no real trimming done) soon after...     but if dog were mouthy or a breed that needed it, bite inhibition and leave it might be first priorities for safety... 

as long as it’s fun and feels like a game to her she can be learning all the time she’s awake — she will be learning something anyway.  

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Thanks, Pen.  Yes, she's mouthy/bitey right now - she's a puppy.  We didn't do much the first 2-3 days after we brought her home b/c it was a complete change of environment (location, home, people, etc).  Still, we brought her home Saturday late afternoon and by Monday/Tues we started commands: potty, sit and crate.  Those are the only 3 and I'm introducing come and will now work on biting.  

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You could find Ian Dunbar and Zak George, in  YouTube videos on bite inhibition, (I’ve mainly used Ian Dunbar squeal method [with 4 parts to it  , from no hard bites to dog doesn’t initiate mouthing humans] plus a book , maybe by Brian Kilcommins? On childproofing dogs) and related (as well as lots of other behaviorswith useful YouTubes)...   the guide dogs videos  might also have that.  Bill/ aka Spycar had a different bite inhibition technique he’s posted about iirc.  

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3 hours ago, Pen said:

You could find Ian Dunbar and Zak George, in  YouTube videos on bite inhibition, (I’ve mainly used Ian Dunbar squeal method [with 4 parts to it  , from no hard bites to dog doesn’t initiate mouthing humans] plus a book , maybe by Brian Kilcommins? On childproofing dogs) and related (as well as lots of other behaviorswith useful YouTubes)...   the guide dogs videos  might also have that.  Bill/ aka Spycar had a different bite inhibition technique he’s posted about iirc.  

Yes, I part ways with the methods of Ian Dunbar (which is far better than nothing) while 100% sharing his admonition that bite inhibition training  is the single most important aspect of a puppy's education.

I have posted "my" method on several occasions in the past. I learned this method for creating a "soft mouth" ("bite-inhibition" not being a term used at the time TTBOMK) about 1970 when I got my first dog (an Irish Setter) from an old hand with dogs, someone who fed call a "dog whisperer" today. 

I've practiced this method ever since and have tried to share it widely with others. It is extremely successful. Yet I doubt one would find it in a Goggle search.

The basic idea is simple. Most puppies--and certainly frisky members of the gundog family--are going to want to mouth people's hands. And their tiny little teeth are sharp and it hurts when they "bite."

A natural (but bad) response is to pull away one's hand (which can cause skin to tear) and/or to rebuke the pup. Both bad options.

What you want to do--and stick with me here--is to get your hand into the pups mouth. As long as the pup doesn't clamp down the hand stays in place in a very relaxed fashion.

If the pup bites down the human (with zero drama) gently goes a little deeper into the pup's mouth. This very slight increase in pressure will cause the pup's grip to relax. As the pup relaxes the pressure of the hand in the mouth is also relaxed (but remains in the mouth). Little routines of this "hand in mouth" exercise should happen many (many) times a day at this age. You need to have your hand in your pup's mouth a lot. This training should extend over many months. The number of times per day can drop, but consistency is key.

In the special case where one has an exuberant and strong pup whose bite is too hard for gentle hand pressure to relieve, the back up is to fold the pup's muzzle very gently over its teeth (no pressure) and then (while securing the muzzle with ones finger's get ones protected hand into the pup's mouth. Now if the pup bites down, they bite against the tender flesh inside its own cheeks. The ONLY pressure in this variant should come from the pup biting down. Natural consequences.

The first option is preferable if possible.

A dog raised this way will allow you to do tooth inspections and even cleanings w/o it being an issue.

But the biggest deal is that you will have a dog actively trained to have a soft mouth with humans and a dog that will not bite (except perhaps if they need to defend you).

Spending time with ones hand inside a pup's mouth might carry a certain yuck! factor for some. My response? Get over it.

This is IMO the very most important part of a pup's education. I believed that before I heard of Ian Dunbar, but knotted by head when I saw that he makes precisely the same argument. Unfortunately his method is not optimal.

This process is not something to shortcut. Trying to train a dog not to bite by saying "No bites!" is an inadequate method of training. Inadequate methods fail in critical moments (lie when a child steps on a dogs tail) and can result in maulings or bites). It needs to be a PROCESS. A side benefit is that this is also bond-building.

Of all the things I believe about good dog rearing (or any subject for that matter) the efficacy and importance of the soft mouth/bite inhibition training rates at the top.

Critical.

Bill 

 

 

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4 hours ago, sheryl said:

Thanks, Pen.  Yes, she's mouthy/bitey right now - she's a puppy.  We didn't do much the first 2-3 days after we brought her home b/c it was a complete change of environment (location, home, people, etc).  Still, we brought her home Saturday late afternoon and by Monday/Tues we started commands: potty, sit and crate.  Those are the only 3 and I'm introducing come and will now work on biting.  

Please read below. Do not chastise the pup or try to get it to stop biting--except as outlined in my post.

One can stop a behavior. But that isn't really training.

This area is very important.

Bill

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I agree with the method Spy Car uses (and never had any success with the "yelp" method). 

I also highly encourage holding a yummy chew while the dog chews on it - the puppy gets a better grip with their teeth because you are stabilizing it, which they like, but it also teaches them to associate you touching their bones/toys as "no big deal" and even a positive thing, instead of assuming that you touching their bone means you are going to take it away. 

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32 minutes ago, Pen said:

This video is more the Ian Dunbar (though not Dunbar himself) type method.  It’s a method that did work well with dogs I’ve had.  So you’ll have a few different options to choose from and rationale behind them—

 

 

I love this video on almost every point. I was prepared to have many issues with it, but instead kept saying "right on!" throughout. He makes excellent points. And I was mindful that I failed to mention the value in socializing a puppy with other puppies as part of the process (as something I take for a given).

The one point of departure is the bite-inhibition method. Dunbar himself in his writings on the subject tells prospective dog trainers never to create any drama. I'd contend shouting "ow, ow" is drama.

I'm also highly convinced that the level of bite inhibition training with a pup that's encouraged to stop with "Ow!" is much less. Even they criticize (rightly) the "Stop Biting!" approach. To me "Stop Biting!" and "Ow!" are virtually distinctions without a difference compared with the gold standard of training. Which demands one get's their hands into a pup's mouth early and often. Starting now.

As good as this video is (and it is excellent) I feel it misses out in not giving the most effective and surest training method.

Bill

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

I agree with the method Spy Car uses (and never had any success with the "yelp" method). 

I also highly encourage holding a yummy chew while the dog chews on it - the puppy gets a better grip with their teeth because you are stabilizing it, which they like, but it also teaches them to associate you touching their bones/toys as "no big deal" and even a positive thing, instead of assuming that you touching their bone means you are going to take it away. 

For the same reasons I try to end play periods---where there is tug, or retrievals, or other activities where the dog willing gives up an object---with pointedly giving the pup the item in the end along with one's "release word" that says both play time is over and "I'm giving you the prized item."  

I'm glad to know you are with me on the method. I consider this the far most valuable bit of information I could share with prospective dog owners. By far!

Bill

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2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I agree with the method Spy Car uses (and never had any success with the "yelp" method). 

I also highly encourage holding a yummy chew while the dog chews on it - the puppy gets a better grip with their teeth because you are stabilizing it, which they like, but it also teaches them to associate you touching their bones/toys as "no big deal" and even a positive thing, instead of assuming that you touching their bone means you are going to take it away. 

 

I had success with the yelp method with a rescue Rottweiler.   It perhaps depends some on exact dog and exact human.  

Second part seems important and helpful to do.  

We’ve also done trades of high value raw meaty bones etc to teach that human hand means something good probably coming and something being taken away may mean something even better to come.  

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15 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I had success with the yelp method with a rescue Rottweiler.   It perhaps depends some on exact dog and exact human.  

Second part seems important and helpful to do.  

We’ve also done trades of high value raw meaty bones etc to teach that human hand means something good probably coming and something being taken away may mean something even better to come.  

My rottie/shepherd mix has been trained with a mix of the yelp method and Spy Car's method.  The yelps came naturally. 😉  But I also would push my hand further into her mouth.  She also had lots of socialization with other dogs where she could play bite and play wrestle and play growl to her heart's content. 

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Another related thing that can help is holding a high value real meat item inside one’s closed hand and not letting dog have it till she stops mouthing the hand for it.  (Which helps toward “leave it” and also can help to some degree with mouthiness.). 

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I had success with the yelp method with a rescue Rottweiler.   It perhaps depends some on exact dog and exact human.  

Second part seems important and helpful to do.  

We’ve also done trades of high value raw meaty bones etc to teach that human hand means something good probably coming and something being taken away may mean something even better to come.  

I may be bad at imitating another dog, or maybe my pain tolerance is off, lol. 

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2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

My rottie/shepherd mix has been trained with a mix of the yelp method and Spy Car's method.  The yelps came naturally. 😉  But I also would push my hand further into her mouth.  She also had lots of socialization with other dogs where she could play bite and play wrestle and play growl to her heart's content. 

I would not criticize anyone who legitimately needed to cry out in pain. Puppy teeth are sharp. Pain responses happen. If one is being hurt a yep is legitimate.

But fake "Ows!" are a less effective training method than pushing the hand in the mouth. I will not deny that "my" method won't at times be a little painful.

Puppy teeth are really sharp.

But this is a life-of-the-dog training investment. As supported in the video above, there is a limited window to teach these skills. And it should be a process.

All things you know, I'm just talking out loud.

Bill

 

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Thanks, everyone!  OK, we are doing good.  I asked earlier b/c I was uncertain how many commands to teach a teach simultaneously.  I guess I might be wrong (?) but I thought it might cause confusing teaching a dog many commands.  I've focused on crate, sit, potty and now come.  I have not started bite inh yet but now see I need to start as she's 11.5 weeks.  I know there's still a good opportunity b/c of her age but I/we do need to start now.

Bill, I like you method.  I think I get it.  The release of Shiloh's mouth is the "reward".   So, no treat when she releases?  Also, do you put your hand in from the side or fingers down the mouth?

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It can be helpful to get one command understood so that dog gets general idea of doing something after a signal or word => reward.   Then smart dogs are often ready to see what else they can do to get a reward, and might get bored with just one thing to do.  But you take your guidance from the dog. If she seems confused, back off to less.  If she seems eager for more (or bored) give more.   A few words as soon as possible help keep the dog from thinking everything means sit (or whatever), it makes them have to listen.

I wouldn’t do multiple things that have a similar sound together.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Thanks, everyone!  OK, we are doing good.  I asked earlier b/c I was uncertain how many commands to teach a teach simultaneously.  I guess I might be wrong (?) but I thought it might cause confusing teaching a dog many commands.  I've focused on crate, sit, potty and now come.  I have not started bite inh yet but now see I need to start as she's 11.5 weeks.  I know there's still a good opportunity b/c of her age but I/we do need to start now.

Bill, I like you method.  I think I get it.  The release of Shiloh's mouth is the "reward".   So, no treat when she releases?  Also, do you put your hand in from the side or fingers down the mouth?

I guess my motion into the mouth is from the side to the side front. And I go in with a folded back of the hand leading.

ETA: Think of your hand being folded into a "stick". Mostly sideways in the mouth.

No pressure on pup's mouth unless they clamp. Then go deeper. You want a hand position that will give you maximum leverage on pup's mouth and moving as lightly as possible to motivate a release. Most pups catch on very quickly.

Your hand release is the reward. I've never used treats with this training. I would not advise it. You are rewarding the pup mightily by sitting with your hand in its mouth.

Not only is it vital to the safety of your family, visitors, guests, neighbors, and anyone else this dog may encounter that she be fully bite trained, but there is another great part.

Hand in the mouth helps build a tremendous bond of trust between pup and its human. Very important. The act on your part--of hanging out with you hand in your pups mouth for a bit--will build very strong mutual trust between you and pup.

I'd also hand feed as much of the food as you care to. 

Really bond.

Bill

 

 

Edited by Spy Car
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@sheryl et al, while I have been saying to "go a little deeper" (which is true in a sense) a better way to express the movement is that you begin to open what was a folded hand.

By partially opening the hand one is creating leverage on the pup's jaw. With slight pressure they should release.

Good questions.

 

Bill

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24 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I guess my motion into the mouth is from the side to the side front. And I go in with a folded back of the hand leading.

ETA: Think of your hand being folded into a "stick". Mostly sideways in the mouth.

No pressure on pup's mouth unless they clamp. Then go deeper. You want a hand position that will give you maximum leverage on pup's mouth and moving as lightly as possible to motivate a release. Most pups catch on very quickly.

Your hand release is the reward. I've never used treats with this training. I would not advise it. You are rewarding the pup mightily by sitting with your hand in its mouth.

Not only is it vital to the safety of your family, visitors, guests, neighbors, and anyone else this dog may encounter that she be fully bite trained, but there is another great part.

Hand in the mouth helps build a tremendous bond of trust between pup and its human. Very important. The act on your part--of hanging out with you hand in your pups mouth for a bit--will build very strong mutual trust between you and pup.

I'd also hand feed as much of the food as you care to. 

Really bond.

Bill

 

 

Bill, if I'm understanding you correctly you are teaching thus - I "fist" my hand?  Take the right hand, for example.  I fist my right hand, thumb is left.  I'm going to take the "right side" of the hand and place in dog's mouth.  So the right side of my fisted hand is going to dog's mouth front to back.  Then, if Shiloh does not submit, I release my grip thus "expanding" my hand (making it bigger) and filling up her mouth cavity all the while causing pressure which she in turn will want to resolve by releasing and that is her reward - the release and I pull my hand out?  Not worded well, but is that it?

5 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

@sheryl et al, while I have been saying to "go a little deeper" (which is true in a sense) a better way to express the movement is that you begin to open what was a folded hand.

By partially opening the hand one is creating leverage on the pup's jaw. With slight pressure they should release.

Good questions.

 

Bill

YES, it's sweet to hand feed.  We hand-fed our cat from time to time for the same reason as bonding and trust.   I will do that will Shiloh and I know she'll comply.  Already I see a smart dog.  One that may be a "lap" dog and a faithful companion full of fun!  

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9 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Bill, if I'm understanding you correctly you are teaching thus - I "fist" my hand?  Take the right hand, for example.  I fist my right hand, thumb is left.  I'm going to take the "right side" of the hand and place in dog's mouth.  So the right side of my fisted hand is going to dog's mouth front to back.  Then, if Shiloh does not submit, I release my grip thus "expanding" my hand (making it bigger) and filling up her mouth cavity all the while causing pressure which she in turn will want to resolve by releasing and that is her reward - the release and I pull my hand out?  Not worded well, but is that it?

YES, it's sweet to hand feed.  We hand-fed our cat from time to time for the same reason as bonding and trust.   I will do that will Shiloh and I know she'll comply.  Already I see a smart dog.  One that may be a "lap" dog and a faithful companion full of fun!  

I'd think if it as "un-fisting" the hand to start.

"Folded" with the thumb pointing towards you and filling the role of "meat" in a "taco" formed with your hand. 

When you need to correct, you expand the hand.

The key is you need to be able to create a little pressure when necessary.

Bill 

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35 minutes ago, sheryl said:

So, thumb "out"?  Fingers are folded into palm lightly but as far down as possible and "not" TUCKED high into the palm?

Thumb flat on the palm. Palm faces toward you.

Fingers are fully extended. Then the whole hand folds a little (getting smaller). Top and bottom fingers fold in.

 

Bill

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26 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Thumb flat on the palm. Palm faces toward you.

Fingers are fully extended. Then the whole hand folds a little (getting smaller). Top and bottom fingers fold in.

 

Bill

So, fingers "lay" over thumb which is tucked in?  OK, I get that.  Do you insert with what was palm up? Or does it matter?

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1 minute ago, sheryl said:

So, fingers "lay" over thumb which is tucked in?  OK, I get that.  Do you insert with what was palm up? Or does it matter?

Insert the back of the hand. Position so making a partial fist/ expanding size of hand is easy to accomplish.

The key is that you can very gently pressure the pup to open its jaw (which causes them to release its grip.

Experiment with what gives you leverage.

Bill

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4 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Insert the back of the hand. Position so making a partial fist/ expanding size of hand is easy to accomplish.

The key is that you can very gently pressure the pup to open its jaw (which causes them to release its grip.

Experiment with what gives you leverage.

Bill

Bill, THANKS!  I will try that!  So, every time she "play bites" I do this! ???  And, back or "top" of hand goes down into the mouth, fingers laying over tucked in thumb and gently release and remove hand.  I think that's it and I got it.  If not, let me know!   Much appreciated!  

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11 hours ago, sheryl said:

Bill, THANKS!  I will try that!  So, every time she "play bites" I do this! ???  And, back or "top" of hand goes down into the mouth, fingers laying over tucked in thumb and gently release and remove hand.  I think that's it and I got it.  If not, let me know!   Much appreciated!  

It's not a correction for when she's biting and riled up as much as a way to work on bite inhibition when she's fairly calm, in my experience. 

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I can’t comment directly on the “Bill method”—

but for “play biting” IME it’s also a good idea to start teaching her how you as human want to play (nip and chase, and nip and wrestle is for dogs, and if you can find her a puppy class that could help)...  humans though can play with toys, so lots of play with toys is good...  perhaps a dog toy plush snake or bungee elongated “animal” or stuffed cloth tube which you can dangle and make move around interestingly (or toss or tug might be possible with it too) and she can chase, pounce, and bite it safely (safely for both of you...) and understand that that’s a “good Dog” behavior.    Especially if she often comes out of crate (or some other predictable situation) ready to play bite, you can anticipate that and be ready to guide her to your own idea of suitable play bite object. 

some pups also get wound up and bitey when they’re tired, like wound up tired toddlers

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1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

It's not a correction for when she's biting and riled up as much as a way to work on bite inhibition when she's fairly calm, in my experience. 

 

56 minutes ago, Pen said:

I can’t comment directly on the “Bill method”—

but for “play biting” IME it’s also a good idea to start teaching her how you as human want to play (nip and chase, and nip and wrestle is for dogs, and if you can find her a puppy class that could help)...  humans though can play with toys, so lots of play with toys is good...  perhaps a dog toy plush snake or bungee elongated “animal” or stuffed cloth tube which you can dangle and make move around interestingly (or toss or tug might be possible with it too) and she can chase, pounce, and bite it safely (safely for both of you...) and understand that that’s a “good Dog” behavior.    Especially if she often comes out of crate (or some other predictable situation) ready to play bite, you can anticipate that and be ready to guide her to your own idea of suitable play bite object. 

some pups also get wound up and bitey when they’re tired, like wound up tired toddlers

 

Overall, she is doing well!  Last night was the 2nd night she slept through the night and I didn't detect any accidents!   DH is a night owl so he takes her out last thing at night and I'm an early bird, so I get up and let her out first thing!   Teaching: sit, introduced come 1-2 days ago, potty and crate.  She is not getting sit - interesting!  She wants to fetch.  She's constantly running to go potty and en route snatches up a twig with dried leaves! LOL!  I just don't want to teach fetch yet until these commands and I introduced bite inhibition training.  There's much to do!  I have to schedule her water intake b/c somewhere she learned from her sibling/s to drag the water bowl out and play with it!  Wet carpet constantly.  Every time she comes in from potty I let her drink, not as a reward  but she has "room" to drink having just peed! LOL!  Bite inhibition - Bill, you are right!  This is important and I can see where this will take time.  Thankfully it was started on her at 3 1/2 months and not 6.  Still do-able but more difficult with each passing  day/week. 

 

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13 hours ago, sheryl said:

Bill, THANKS!  I will try that!  So, every time she "play bites" I do this! ???  And, back or "top" of hand goes down into the mouth, fingers laying over tucked in thumb and gently release and remove hand.  I think that's it and I got it.  If not, let me know!   Much appreciated!  

There may be times when you need to redirect the puppy, such as distracting with a play toy. Or another dog.

But this should be implemented many times a day at this age.

Agreeing with Katie that it is easier to hang out with hand in mouth when pup isn't wild and with Pen that wild and tired go hand in hand.

Use you inner intelligence to guide you.

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28 minutes ago, sheryl said:

 

 

Overall, she is doing well!  Last night was the 2nd night she slept through the night and I didn't detect any accidents!   DH is a night owl so he takes her out last thing at night and I'm an early bird, so I get up and let her out first thing!   Teaching: sit, introduced come 1-2 days ago, potty and crate.  She is not getting sit - interesting!  She wants to fetch.  She's constantly running to go potty and en route snatches up a twig with dried leaves! LOL!  I just don't want to teach fetch yet until these commands and I introduced bite inhibition training.  There's much to do!  I have to schedule her water intake b/c somewhere she learned from her sibling/s to drag the water bowl out and play with it!  Wet carpet constantly.  Every time she comes in from potty I let her drink, not as a reward  but she has "room" to drink having just peed! LOL!  Bite inhibition - Bill, you are right!  This is important and I can see where this will take time.  Thankfully it was started on her at 3 1/2 months and not 6.  Still do-able but more difficult with each passing  day/week. 

 

No need to delay informal fetch  due to other training being in play.

Realize EVERYTHING in this pup's life is informal training. Encourage all positive behaviors.

Glad things are going well.

Bill

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Potty progress sounds wonderful!

I don’t give command words until after the dog is already doing the behavior via a lure or clicker type method.  

 

Heavy ceramic type water bowl? 

 

 

 

Showing luring—note that it starts with the puppy just being lured to do all sorts of things (move, sit) —but there are no “commands”

 I think you may be moving into too much “command” giving too soon

 

 

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Sit luring—word is being used, but dog in film is following lure ...  

if you’re not sure you can use the food (or toy) lure to get the dog to follow the lure into sit position, don’t use the word sit, because dog will associate the word with whatever the dog ends up doing  and will learn a wrong meaning for the word

 

 

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2 hours ago, Spy Car said:

There may be times when you need to redirect the puppy, such as distracting with a play toy. Or another dog.

But this should be implemented many times a day at this age.

Agreeing with Katie that it is easier to hang out with hand in mouth when pup isn't wild and with Pen that wild and tired go hand in hand.

Use you inner intelligence to guide you.

 

2 hours ago, Spy Car said:

No need to delay informal fetch  due to other training being in play.

Realize EVERYTHING in this pup's life is informal training. Encourage all positive behaviors.

Glad things are going well.

Bill

Thanks, Bill.   Maybe focus behaviors in sets????  IOW, maybe teach simultaneously - sit, down, stand and off.  Then, during another training session combine - come, fetch, sit.  Potty goes without saying.  Or, as many commands each training session?

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