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My ds11 started public school fifth grade this year. I think he has some learning disabilities and hopefully we will figure those out. Right now he is having trouble with the amount of writing that is required. He writes slowly. Is there anything I can do to help him? Kind of like reading fluency, but for writing? 

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I'd approach the teacher and explain exactly what you said in your post -- and that you'd like to brainstorm with the teacher about how together you can reduce the writing load until an IEP can be put into place. Examples: teacher allows some work to be done orally (perhaps DS could record his answers and you email the recordings), or teacher reduces the overall volume of writing required by DS. Or you you use alternatives, such as you scribe for DS, or DS uses voice recognition software for typing/printing out his work.

Having had a DS with LDs that involved spelling and writing, plus struggles with the physical act of handwriting, I'd say that just would not have worked with our DS#2 -- trying to force him to speed up his handwriting, or add to his handwriting load with another program. He had much better success with writing and spelling once he learned touch typing.

Edited by Lori D.
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33 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

2.  If possible, have them write standing up.  Mr. Pudewa said sitting on an exercise ball was another option but the bouncing made me bonkers.  A cooler room also tends to help.  (I know this is a LOT easier to control in a home school!).  This helped some, as well, when we were at home.

Do you know WHY standing up helps?  or why room temperature affects handwriting (or is it just affecting concentration for boys).

And which Pudewa talk gave these suggestions?

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13 hours ago, lovinmyboys said:

My ds11 started public school fifth grade this year. I think he has some learning disabilities and hopefully we will figure those out. Right now he is having trouble with the amount of writing that is required. He writes slowly. Is there anything I can do to help him? Kind of like reading fluency, but for writing? 

Before you guilt trip yourself or him too much, get evals. My ds has an IEP even though we homeschool, and yes it sounds like he needs to go through the ps eval/IEP/504 process. They'll do a multi-factored eval. They may do good evals or very brief evals (brief IQ, lick and a promise OT, etc.), so if you can make private evals happen you'll be more confident in the results. And yes in an ideal world you'd do psych, vision with a developmental optometrist, and OT. Some kids will have language issues as well and need either a neuropsych or SLP. There are some clinical psychs who run language testing, so it's a matter of searching till you get someone who seems to be hitting the areas you think you'll need.

Cranking out writing too slowly has many components. Here's a link to get you started, but what they talk about is the Simple View of Writing or the idea that foundationally you need transcription (handwriting, spelling), text generation (ideation, translation), and EF (organizing, self-regulating). https://eric.ed.gov/?id=EJ1172152

So when you look at the things people are saying here, the standing is addressing EF with self-regulation. You can have issues with organizing, narrative language. There's the Test of Narrative Language that an SLP who specializes in literacy and some (very few) clinical psychs will do. For EF, psychs will do the BRIEF or other executive function surveys.

When people are talking about pencil grip, that can be OT, but also developmental vision issues will cause people to grip too tightly. Like their eyes might not be converging correctly and in trying to track and resolve the images they get really tense. The shoulder vs. arm, core strength, etc. is under OT. 

The most immediate thing the school could do as an accommodation is get him typing. However if he's having issues beyond typing, you are looking at the language issues, PROCESSING SPEED, etc. 

My dd has extremely low processing speed relative to IQ. You only find that with psych testing, and there ain't nothing to do about it. She's just flat slow, and it's who she is, how she's wired. She has had the other issues too (OT, developmental vision problems, etc.). Writing is now a huge bugaboo for her in college and bogs her down. Her language also drops when she's tired.

So you don't know exactly what your ds' issues are till you get some evals and sort it out. You probably have clues or could talk about it here and have it become obvious what some of the issues are. If he uses tech, like say dictation on his tech rather than even trying to type, what happens? If you scribe, what happens? Is he just flat slow? Do his thoughts drop? Is anything painful, like the physical act of writing or headaches with reading or sustained vision use? Does he have anything unusual with his grip or posturing? You can tell a lot about what evals to look for as you look at what you're already seeing.

There is a sense in which some of writing gets faster as you just flat get the structures, know what's expected, and do it more. Typically the ps can do some kind of RTI=response to intervention. Because you homeschooled him, they're probably going to start there. They may even blow you off and say they don't have to eval until they've observed him 6 weeks and done RTI. Legally, RTI can be subsumed into the IEP timeline. You would need to come with evidence that they should go ahead and eval. You have the legal right, the federal right, to make a written request for evals. You simply say you suspect a learning disability, that this was going on while you homeschooled him and is still an issue here, and that you request they convene the team to consider evals for an IEP/504. Sign, date, hand to them, boom. They can turn you down (not yet enough evidence) or maybe they'd go ahead and do it. But you have the legal right to make that request and do not have to wait for them.

If you wait for them, what will often happen is they observe 6 weeks, do RTI for a period of time, then around Christmas the teach makes the referral to the team. Then it's 120 days, ie. the entire 2nd semester, and you get an IEP/504 in place by the end of the year to apply for the following year. That means if you want it sooner, you fight NOW. They're not busy now, so it's easy for them. That's just how the process rolls. If you get private evals, you can force their hand by bringing in the evidence to compel them to eval and not ignore you. 

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13 hours ago, lovinmyboys said:

Is there anything I can do to help him? Kind of like reading fluency, but for writing? 

Once you get evals, there might be. For some kids, the handwriting is not automatic and a dab of OT can help. He may have vision issues or need some narrative language intervention. He may have ADHD and respond well to meds. I think my dd would say the meds improve processing speed, but I don't have data on that.

So yes, once you get evals to pinpoint what is going on there might be something. Sometimes it's strategies, like the lockbox of 360 Thinking or using organizing software like Inspiration. The Mindwings/Story Grammar stuff helps connect narrative and expository writing for intervention. https://mindwingconcepts.com/pages/methodology

But yeah, evals are where it starts. You don't know what to do first and could be banging your head against a wall unproductively, randomly trying stuff that isn't addressing his real issues.

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I think talk to his teacher.  Does she see a problem?  Do you see a problem at home?

If there might be more of a problem, do request an IEP eval in writing, don’t just talk to the teacher.

If it seems like not as much of a concern, hold off on that.  

Definitely it’s worth talking to the teacher and being on the same page as much as possible.  

Edited by Lecka
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Whatever approach you take, keep a list of "symptoms" and what things help. When you go to do evaluations (if needed), then you have a much better idea of what is concerning. Write it all down; it can help to keep it on a calendar or in a planner so that it's dated and shows the problem over time.

I would write about physical pain, fatigue, anxiety, stubbornness/opposition (sometimes demonstrates anxiety, often demonstrates frustration), how various management strategies help or don't (scribing, eliminating some of the writing, etc.), and what trends you see. There may be other things that you can track too, but that's what's popping into my mind.

You might, over time, rate those things on a 1-10 scale too. Just something quick that is easy to log. 

Example (though this is kind of long): 8/19, very tired after school (8), hand cramps (8--didn't want to build Lego because of hand cramps), homework took much longer than expected due to writing (7)

Over time, you might see that getting into a routine means less hand cramping and less dragging, or it might get worse or stay the same. Dates and a scale are quick data that might make things compelling in the long-term.

You might also notice whether the writing is more or less of a problem in certain subjects or when combined with original thought vs. copying something. If so, you can note that.

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On 8/16/2019 at 6:55 PM, domestic_engineer said:

Do you know WHY standing up helps?  or why room temperature affects handwriting (or is it just affecting concentration for boys).

 

Blood circulation and also being sedentary when sitting. DS13 when he is sitting and the room/car is warmer than he prefers would fall asleep. I have a large collection of photos of him sleeping while doing school work or reading a book. Swinging his legs while sitting helps and I think he does that for standardized tests (SAT, AP, ACT) too. 

DS14 was in public school and his teachers all knew he couldn’t write fast, I didn’t need to say anything. What helped was

1) sitting in front of the teacher. His teachers could see if he didn’t manage to copy down important info from the white board before they start wiping the wipe board

2) his cursive was faster and teachers didn’t mind that he submitted work that was a mix of cursive and script for handwritten work

3) they allow him to type all homework (except for math worksheets because the working is written in the blank area). His handwriting issues won’t serious enough to need to type for math so we didn’t ask for that accommodation.

I would request a parent teacher conference/meeting ASAP unless yours is going to be this week. That’s to discuss stop gap accommodations. Put in a written request for evaluation to the school district office while waiting for the parent teacher conference. 

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