And another question--extracurricular AND high school credit?

[EKS]

Ok, so on all the threads about EC vs (homeschool) high school credit, I've always come down on the side of doing either/or, meaning that listing an activity as EC means there shouldn't be a homeschool-generated credit for it and vice versa.

Now I'm thinking of doing otherwise with my son's instrument lessons--granting one credit (encompassing the past three years) on the transcript *and* listing the instrument as an EC.  Unfortunately at the moment he doesn't do anything beyond lessons, practice, and just having fun with it (so no formal activities, performances, or even playing with friends), but over the past year he has gotten really good, and it has become sort of a passion of his.

For those of you who done this--how did you do it and how did it go?

[kokotg]

I've seen people say they just list the first year of music on the transcript and then shift it to EC after that....I've never quite understood the logic, though. In my mind, if they were in school and taking band every day it would go on a transcript. I guess the thinking is just that they should have a fine arts credit somewhere on the transcript and beyond that it doesn't matter much? I'm not really sure how much it matters in the end--either way, it will be clear that he put the time into music. Unless you're worried of being short on having enough credits to graduate (which I don't think is usually a problem for homeschoolers) I think it's kind of a wash. But I'm interested to hear what other people think; my oldest just had piano lessons (and I did the put it on his transcript for 9th grade and not after that thing), but my next kid has tons more music and I have no idea how I'm going to end up "counting" it.

[Sneezyone]

When I was in high school in California, student athletes (and marching band/color guard members) had P.E. with their teammates during the first or last period of the day and it counted as a P.E. credit. *shrug*. I don't see why it couldn't count as both. This ensured fewer disruptions to other classes when students had to travel for competitions.

[EKS]

Thanks!  You both have inspired me to give him a half credit each for 9th and 10th grades and then he can call it an EC for 11th and 12th.  

[EKS]

1 hour ago, HeighHo said:

My state likes seattime and has rules on it, our piano teacher shared them with us in advance so we could make the choice and she could do the paperwork..its 0.25 credits for one half hour lesson weekly plus 5 hours a week of practice plus a recital for a school year of lessons.  In public school, for one fine arts credit the student must take the weekly lesson and make satisfactory progress (ie practice at home half hour daily), participate in daily rehearsal, and participate in all the performances both during and after school.

Wow--the public school here simply counts class time (150 hours = 1 credit).  The electives, such as the arts, rarely have homework.  The rate that you quoted above would require 792 hours per 36 week year to accrue an entire credit.  That seems a bit crazy to me.

[klmama]

It's almost like college.  One credit hour for a weekly hour-long lesson, which requires 2+ hours of daily practice in order to make progress, plus a recital.  Another one credit hour for band, which meets an hour and a half weekly, requires 2+ hours of daily practice, plus several concerts.  Another one credit hour for marching band, which requires 2 hours of daily practice, 8-9 hours on each of the 6-7 home football game days, and 5-7 full days over the winter break if the team goes to a bowl game.  Six hours of the day, every day, dedicated to only three credits, and there are 12-15 more credits worth of work to do.  It's amazing musicians ever graduate.

FWIW, I'm counting piano as an extracurricular, simply because it would ring up as just a .25 credit class here, too.  IMHO, it's better to have an 8 hour per week extracurricular than a .25 credit class.  It is making me rethink listing extracurriculars on the transcript, though.  

 

[EKS]

1 hour ago, HeighHo said:

So true....certainly an incentive to take the fine arts on campus.  The course description is quite different though.  Private lesson and practice is not equivalent to 1/4 of the year at school because of the difference in developing the ear plus the skills gained via the ensemble and small group time as well as performances.

Ensemble music at school is roughly 85 minutes daily between weekly group lesson, daily class, daily practice of what was assigned in group lesson. 

Jazz Band here is 1/4 credit; it meets 2.5 hrs weekly, but only about 25 weeks. And yes, they must practice the set in between rehearsals.

I just looked up Jazz Band at our local high school.  They give 3 credits for 5 semesters of enrollment.

[GoodGrief]

Here the public school kids get a waiver for the PE credit for participation in after school sports rather than an actual credit. They get credit for school band, but it is not typically listed as an extracurricular. Additional music activities might be listed that way though...community band, All State, that sort of thing that go above and beyond the requirements for school band or convey additional honors.

You run the risk of looking like you are padding the transcript when you list something as both an extracurricular and an academic subject. If you are with a program that requires a fine arts credit, it makes sense to make sure you have it on the transcript, at least for the time required to get that credit.

As long as you are demonstrating the time he has put into his music, there is generally no benefit to listing it both places.

That said, now that I am re-reading, I think I might be misunderstanding what you want to do. It would be perfectly acceptable to give credit for some years and list it as an extracurricular for others; you just don't want to give academic credit and extracurricular credit for the same hours.

Edited August 15, 2019 by GoodGrief

[EKS]

20 minutes ago, GoodGrief1 said:

That said, now that I am re-reading, I think I might be misunderstanding what you want to do. It would be perfectly acceptable to give credit for some years and list it as an extracurricular for others; you just don't want to give academic credit and extracurricular credit for the same hours.

Yes, this is my plan--list it as a class for grades 9 and 10 (one credit total) and an EC for grades 11 and 12.

[EKS]

2 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

What klmama said.

I get it about the homework/practice piece.  My reasoning is that I know for a fact that at this particular high school, homework requirements for classes can range from nothing ever to 6-10+ hours per week.  And regardless of homework requirements, the class gets the same amount of credit if it meets for the same amount of time.

I have absolutely no problem giving my son 1 credit for his work on his instrument over the course of two calendar years.  If colleges want to reweight it (or ignore it entirely), they are free to do so.  My school profile will state that I use the same 1 credit = a minimum of 150 hours of work model that the public high school here follows.

[lewelma]

I gave my son 1 credit each year for music and listed it for all 4 years as an EC. This is how I split it:

4 Academic Courses: 1 hour lesson, 5 hours practice per week 40 weeks a year with 4 performances a year. These courses also Included ABRSM exams in 1) Theory (in 10th grade), and 2)  Performance - 1 exam each year. The performance exam included high-end ear work, sight singing, sight reading, scales, and performance with an accompanist. 

The ECs: DS was in a Trio and led a small string Orchestra for 4 years. Each had 4 performances each year. 5 hours on Saturday plus practice on his own time. This EC also included going to the district and regional chamber music competitions. I put this group performance down as an EC each year.

For University applications, we also included a music resume, an additional recommendation from his instructor of 6 years, and a performance video. 

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by lewelma

[Roadrunner]

I am also thinking of partial credit for things like theory and chamber group. It’s a huge commitment, isn’t it? I am counting and all of music in our house is close to 30 hours, so some of it will have academic credit but private lessons won’t. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Roadrunner

[Mabelen]

I think it depends on the rigor and time commitment required. I have a child that is in marching band and also takes piano lessons with an annual exam.

I have to say that for her, the school band requires a lot more work. Five 70 minute class periods weekly all school year with graded assessments, with mandatory home practice. Outside school hours, during Marching band season she has a weekly 3 hour rehearsal, a one hour or longer sectional, a 30 minute weekly private lesson, plus football games, parades, and tournaments, which are huge time suckers. Concert band season is less time consuming, other than class and home practice, they have a couple of concerts and competitions outside school hours. Kids like her who are in the top band group also have a weekly 3 hour orchestra rehearsal. 

Piano consists of a weekly 45 minute private piano class and home practice, several recitals, and an annual external exam. 

Band earns her school credit, but only for her in class time. No extra credit for rehearsal, competitions, private lessons, etc. That I guess is the extracurricular part of band.

Piano is strictly an extracurricular. She can include the exams taken as well as the honors earned at those exams.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Mabelen

[skimomma]

22 hours ago, lewelma said:

I gave my son 1 credit each year for music and listed it for all 4 years as an EC. This is how I split it:

4 Academic Courses: 1 hour lesson, 5 hours practice per week 40 weeks a year with 4 performances a year. These courses also Included ABRSM exams in 1) Theory (in 10th grade), and 2)  Performance - 1 exam each year. The performance exam included high-end ear work, sight singing, sight reading, scales, and performance with an accompanist. 

The ECs: DS was in a Trio and led a small string Orchestra for 4 years. Each had 4 performances each year. 5 hours on Saturday plus practice on his own time. This EC also included going to the district and regional chamber music competitions. I put this group performance down as an EC each year.

For University applications, we also included a music resume, an additional recommendation from his instructor of 6 years, and a performance video. 

 

 

I am considering doing something similar because we *are* tight on total credits.  A big reason we homeschool through high school is because dd spends many (average of 4) daily hours playing.  Therefore, we limit academics to a rigorous selection of the basics.  At first I had planned to award credit for one year and count all others as ECs but when I started thinking about it, dd's classical studies, performances, and lessons alone add up to well over a credit worth of seat time.  Then she has double that much annually in other instruments, three non-classical bands, lessons, styles, rehearsals, and gigs.  So I may expand the credit if it makes sense.  I see it kind of like math.  You get credit for taking your math classes.  You get EC for being on the competition math team.  Both in the same year.

[catz]

I haven’t read answers but I listed private lesson on transcript and ensemble stuff as an extracurricular.   Plenty of brick and mortar kids have 4 years of music on their transcript.

[lewelma]

59 minutes ago, skimomma said:

  I see it kind of like math.  You get credit for taking your math classes.  You get EC for being on the competition math team.  Both in the same year.

Yup, I did it for math too. He took 8 math classes in high school (4 of which were self-studied with no tests or requirements from anyone), and then competitions were a huge part of his ECs. 

Basically, my son worked his butt off in high school, but not in traditionally designed school subjects or with school style requirements.  I created a transcript that reflected his learning in a way that admissions could understand.  For music, he graduated with a post-secondary diploma from ABRSM - that was worth 4 classes in my eyes, and I gave a separate 1/2 credit for the theory. His trio, string orchestra, and competitions were outside of the diploma, so they were ECs. 

My son, my homeschool, my requirements. Admissions can then decided if they like it, and for my ds, they did.

Edited August 16, 2019 by lewelma