Child in my co-op class, help me with questions for mom

[cintinative]

I am teaching a high school level (for credit, graded) class at co-op for Government and Economics (1 semester each). There is a child in my class with (as far as I currently know) undiagnosed special needs. On the registration, mom said that she (mom) was "working on a diagnosis. Behind socially. Possible autism, sensory processing disorder & anxiety" 

I have one aide for my class and eight students.  The class will involve several group projects as well as class discussion.  Homework, in addition to reading the text and completing a lesson review, includes weekly quizzes to turn in and essays, short response bullet lists, a speech, etc.  

This child has an older sibling that seems to be an anchor/help for him that is also in the class. 

If you were in my shoes, what questions would you ask mom to help you prepare? I don't want the child to be on the fringe of class.  I don't have experience or training in this. 

Is it okay to ask for progress on a diagnosis? If she has one, will they have given her some sort of framework for his classroom needs? 

Any help you can offer would be wonderful. TIA!!!

 

[PeterPan]

I would assume the ASD, SPD, and anxiety, since that's what the mom said. Just statistically, 80% of the time parents are right so you might as well assume she's right. There may be more that gets identified too, like some SLDs. 

No, psychs are worthless on translating what is done in schools to a homeschool setting. I'm being cynical, but just saying. So no, she's going to spend $$$ and get very little that is actionable. It's more a legal hurdle to get funding for services. The paper will come back with a list of things she probably already knows, like extra time, scaffolding writing assignments, taking breaks, learning Zones of Regulation, etc.

I would assume worst case scenario and think through how you can ramp up supports. That way you're happily surprised if it goes better but prepared. For my dd to function in a setting like that, she needed very high structure and the language output, all that writing, the speeches, etc. would be very tedious. Graphic organizers, scaffolding (turning in a stage each week), alternative methods for people who don't want to stand up in front of the class and present. Group projects may be a mess so you may need to structure that carefully. He may or may not do well with discussion. He may find it useful to stim or use a fidget or may need to take breaks.

I don't know if my ds could function in that environment at some point. He's ASD2 (support level 2) and frankly if a mom is walking up saying those things it makes me wonder what that support level is, which is why I was saying you might want to assume he needs significant support (not just support but significant support) and plan for it. That way, if he doesn't it's easy, no big deal. 

Does the dc want to be there? 

I'd simply ask the mom what works well for him and what types of supports he typically needs. I always appreciate it when teachers phrase it that way. Ideally you'd also teach to his STRENGTHS, so you can ask the mom if he has strengths you could teach to, either with interests or a particular output or way of working. Anything you can do to work WITH him will probably go better.

Also consider asking what SHE hopes to get out of the course for her ds, what her goals are. You have in your mind the typical goals, but for a dc with these needs, sometimes she has a different goal in mind. As long as you're hitting her goal, you're adequate. It doesn't help to have goals for the dc that are way beyond the vision of the mother and out of reach. Work with her to establish some paired vision. Maybe you can see a goal that is within reach that is a *little* beyond what she thought they could get to. But you definitely want to be working on her goals, so you can say it was a success.

[PeterPan]

So for instance, if I put my ds in a class like that, I might be *hoping* that the teacher would "chain" from his areas of interest to the topic at hand. Chaining means to show how they're connected. My ds is very into tanks and planes, so the teacher might use Boeing for examples or a group project to lure him in. That would be chaining. And my ds would probably need a buddy assigned because he'll struggle to make those relationships himself. And my ds would need the tasks to have low stress versions or to have some stress relief built in before say a presentation. He'll actually vomit from anxiety and stress, so he needs significant support (ASD2) to do that. 

So if I put him in a class like that, probably I'd have some kind of other goal that was a personal goal for him that really didn't connect to the material at all. Like maybe I just wanted a break. Maybe I'm really tired and like wow, I can drop him off and go talk with adults for 45 minutes. Maybe I don't give a rip about the content as long as his stress is low enough that he's willing to be in there.

I'd probably also be looking for a *stretch* on some skills that are fledgling. Like I'd probably have been working on having him complete assignments with extended due dates so I'd be looking for scaffolding to help him take a SMALL STEP on that. Not a wham huge step, but a small step. And I'd probably be nervous about the group work and hoping the teacher has a way to raise the support so high that my ds' tendency to either TAKE CHARGE or LEAVE wouldn't kick in. At that point success would just be that he participated where someone else was leading and I wouldn't care about the quality of the output.

 

[PeterPan]

I'd probably also be hoping that the teacher does some ice breakers to help him learn the names of the people in the class and exercise his social skills. 

[cintinative]

10 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

 if a mom is walking up saying those things it makes me wonder what that support level is, which is why I was saying you might want to assume he needs significant support (not just support but significant support) and plan for it. That way, if he doesn't it's easy, no big deal. 

Does the dc want to be there? 

 

Don't quote please, but I have the impression that mom is overwhelmed with another dc with even more significant special needs. I am not sure how much help this child has received, or support, or specialized instruction.  I also have no idea if he wants to be in the class or not. Based on my observation of him last year in a nonacademic class, he will really struggle with group activities.

 

Edited August 12, 2019 by cintinative

[PeterPan]

Yup, you can kind of tell, sigh. When someone is saying those things upfront, they're overwhelmed. 

So don't have unrealistic goals that stress everyone out. That will not be the next step for this dc or what helps this family right now. You want peace, low stress, finding some angle or way that engages him, being very flexible. Is it a *crime* if it's babysitting? Not really. Hopefully it can be more than that for him, but yes sometimes the family just needs some help.

Remember too, the delays of autism are real. Like just think about his chrono age (which may be on the young end of your target for the material) and then subtract 3. He may be more, but just to start subtract 3. What would you change?

[PeterPan]

Ok, so with my dd, she was/is very bright but I had to stop and remember that her executive function, her ability to manage, was really delayed. They'll typically say 30% delay for ADHD. Once you put autism on the table, just say years. 

So advanced content but MUCH YOUNGER MENTAL APPROACH. Is that plain enough? So it's not shocking if he's more fragile or needs more support (academics, organizing, social, anything) while being intellectually capable. He's going to be that mix probably.

Hopefully the chaining will help and the mom can give you some good tips on strengths or things he enjoys. You don't have to do a lot to do this family a good service this year. When people do this kind of thing for me, I very much appreciate it. I'll bet this mom does too.

Edited August 12, 2019 by PeterPan

[cintinative]

Thank you. This is so helpful. I told a friend that I just want to support this family as I can. I just have no experience navigating this.  Thank you for sharing your experience with your children. I  definitely have seen some of these characteristics when I observed the child in a nonacademic class last year.  

[PeterPan]

Ok, you do see the irony that this family is in Ohio but not identified and not using the Autism Scholarship to get services. Ugh. 

The IEP process is a huge fight and with multiple kids she's probably overwhelmed. So I'll just tell you, we sent my dd away during her senior year of high school because I couldn't fight AND take care of her and and and. 

You can't make that fight better, but anything to decrease stress will be good. 

[cintinative]

They moved from another state less than two years ago (the move seemed like a source of anxiety for the dc) and had to live with family for awhile due to finances.  I don't know that they even have insurance. The poor dc would make random comments last year about their financial situation and I really was sad for him to be carrying that. The older dd seemed to indicate no medical insurance either because that dd shared some of her own medical issues and no ability to address them.   I hope that things are more stable now and that mom has the ability to pursue things.  They have certainly been in a very hard season.

[Pen]

I think Ohio is unusual in services offered .  Maybe the family doesn’t know about that?

[PeterPan]

So some ps in Ohio have ADOS trained teams and can get the dc identified. Not all do, but they need to get started. There is zero reason to be waiting on evals. They can make the written request with the school and use the dispute process to go IEE if the school screws it up.

There's also Disability Rights Ohio that can help them with a legal advocate if they are bogged down.

[kbutton]

Some people are also leery of using the public school for anything. Or if they've heard bad things about their district in regard to the IEP process or homeschooling, they don't want to do it. I have a friend that won't use her district because they are known to basically just not give IEPs to homeschoolers unless it's really, really bad. Another friend had her district roll out the red carpet. They are all different.

So, the severity dictates a lot. With my son (ASD support level 1, profoundly gifted, glitchy language issues, very hands-on), you would see mostly blending in, and you would see a struggle with written work. You would see a complete inability to ask questions. If you pushed him into something uncomfortable or hard, he would either get silly, or he would do something else (including be snippy or leave the room) to avoid a meltdown. He would try to Blend In At All Costs. 

5 hours ago, cintinative said:

I have one aide for my class and eight students.  The class will involve several group projects as well as class discussion.  Homework, in addition to reading the text and completing a lesson review, includes weekly quizzes to turn in and essays, short response bullet lists, a speech, etc.  

Ask the mom if the siblings would be better in the same group or separate. If they are in the same group and get along, it might make mom's job at home easier because she can help both kids together. Or, if they have radically different ways of working, it might double her work. Only she would know. 

Maybe consider having the mom give a rating whether he's done his best work. Some co-ops have everything parent-graded to start with. 

Can you give the mom samples of completed work ahead to ask what he's most likely to trip up on? In this list, my son could read the text, complete the lesson review (depending on how the questions were asked--they could be hard questions he finds easy or easy questions he finds hard because his language issues are a bit wonky), weekly quizzes would depend on wording, essays might be a total non-starter (seriously), short responses would probably be okay depending on how asked, and the speech would be an amazing delivery if he could come up with content (it's like an essay, so there you go). He's a natural public speaker, lol! 

Some of these things my son could do with heavy tutoring, or some he might be able to do if you changed it from written to sitting with you and having a lively discussion that is not high-stakes but is kind of a Socratic discussion. In fact, such an encounter would convince you that I was making up his issues, lol. If he used a tutor, or I helped with it, flexibility on due dates would be paramount, or our whole entire life would revolve around the co-op. Truly. This is why we don't do co-ops. 

Group work would need to be specific. He likes group if he knows his role. 

Anytime you can give an example of what work you expect, how the person went from start to finish, and why it was good work, that would help tremendously. Honestly, I always wanted that in school and never got it, and I have no learning issues. I just hated guessing and reading minds. Teachers always think they are clearer than they are. When I got to the world of work, I was delighted to find that what needed to be done was a lot more apparent than any rubric I'd seen in school, and most of my work was open-ended. 

My son's issues are with narrative and abstract language, but NOT abstract thinking, per se. Or maybe that abstract language short circuits the abstract thinking from time to time. While this student might have more going on, that will probably also be a thing for him too, but present differently. 

You might have to explain social ideas related to government and economics. Anything that relies on human behavior needs a certain amount of interpretation. Some texts though describe this well, and then it's not as big of a problem, but you never know. My son is actually taking government and economics before his American or world history because I think it will give him an intro into why historical events play out the way they do--there is often a form of government interacting with economic human behavior leading up to the events. 

[lmrich]

Ask the mom what modifications can be made that will lead to the child achieving his best. 

ie.. more time on tests, having a calculator, access to another student's notes, etc... 

 

[PeterPan]

7 minutes ago, nwahomeschoolmom said:

He will need clear directions for sure.  Yesterday my son learned that "What other moral could you take away from this fable?" really means what did you "get out" of the fable.  What did it teach you, etc. I was so confused about what he was saying for a few minutes and then it became clear he thought the question asked what moral would you literally remove from the fable. 

That's pretty literal, lol. That falls under metalinguistics btw. He's still too young for the CELF Metalinguistics. And yes, some people become more obvious with time who aren't obvious initially. The donkey's butt neuropsych (who doesn't offer refunds for stupidity) called my ds ADHD-inattentive, which ZERO practitioners of ANY stripe have EVER agreed with since. My ds now has an ASD2 label. And you kinda wonder how things can't be obvious, like hello such a level of extreme literalness as your ds is exhibiting. So yeah, give it time, assume, work with it.

9 minutes ago, nwahomeschoolmom said:

I would think the mom might be most worried that he would be disruptive somehow. 

Yup, absolutely. And op can think through her plan for that, how to be chilled with that. There's a lot that just doesn't matter. Like get really brazen about bringing in tools, allowing him to stim. Moving is fine. Being in the back is fine. Building with legos the whole time is fine. If you have something relatively age-appropriate that he can line up (that's a stim), take it in! Fidget spinners, thinking putty, kapla blocks, buttons. I just got these little bizarre suction cup toys called Squigz. You might have something lying around. Most of the things my ds plays with line up, and he will do these things by the HOUR. They lower his stress and are calming. Flex seating, sequined pillows, anything. Everyone will like the stuff but he may especially.

I'm not saying try too hard, but if you have stuff lying around it's an option to bring things. My ds LOVES buttons. Just a tin of buttons. Somehow weave them into the lesson, so the buttons are there ostensibly for economics or a prop but then whoever wants to can handle them. Little math manipulatives that line up. The magnetic toys like magnatiles. Anything. Playing cards. Anything you can make look like it belongs or like everyone would want it anyway. 

You can also bring food. Like a keurig or hot pot to do hot chocolate. Caffeine chills most people with ADHD and the sensory is good and it's really grown up. So they're like ooh we get coffee/whatever, but you're really bringing in sensory for him.