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MaBelle

Would you say something? UPDATE

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11 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

normal teens dont' want to hang with little kids. 

Guess I don't know many "normal" teens because I know several who enjoy playing with little kids. One of my kids prefers younger playmates because they aren't as catty, snide, dramatic, or opposite-gender-obsessed as her peers. Other teens love to play with babies & toddlers. Guess that makes them abnormal.

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10 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

Guess I don't know many "normal" teens because I know several who enjoy playing with little kids. One of my kids prefers younger playmates because they aren't as catty, snide, dramatic, or opposite-gender-obsessed as her peers. Other teens love to play with babies & toddlers. Guess that makes them abnormal.

I still prefer to hang out with little kids lol. They are so much more fun and less emotionally draining for me lol.

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15 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

I still prefer to hang out with little kids lol. They are so much more fun and less emotionally draining for me lol.

you're not a teenager.  

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41 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

I know very well about childhood emotional neglect, first hand, thank you. And I also know first hand about cps and courts not recognizing the abuse that it is and the lifelong problems it causes. You aren't the only one here who had a crappy childhood. My point was that a spoiled child with doting, over indulging parents could be not abused in any way (physically, verbally, emotionally, financially and any other way you could think of) and still be a bully and abuse others. They aren't copying what has been done to them, they just honestly don't have empathy for others because they have never have to think about anyone but themselves.

uh - did you leave something out?  or was that what you meant to say?  that a "spoiled child with over indulgent parents *could not* be abused - and still *not* be a bully.

I happen to think being over indulgent,  etc. etc. - is very selfish (and lazy) on the part of the parent. and they certainly can create bullies by going down that path.   

 

I was listening to a psych who specializes in narcissism - who was describing it's origins.  overly indulgent parents who don't hold their darling accountable is but one source.

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12 hours ago, Farrar said:

Has this child ever abused another person? Ever? I'm not clear from your description.

Second, sharing that he's a potential danger - if he even is - is one thing. And if they're as close as you say, maybe that is a situation where they should share. But you're saying they shared with a random other person at a party in a way you could overhear. I strongly stand by my not okay.

 

I think there are two things happening that are not mutually exclusive. 

One, the foster parent violated the privacy of his ward. That’s wrong.

Two, regardless of the right or wrongness of the foster parent’s disclosure, Mabelle is now aware of a potential danger to young children. She must act on that knowledge. 

IMO, it is the duty of the foster parent to keep a watchful eye on his child’s interactions with others, knowing the foster child’s history. That’s what he should have been doing instead of blabbing personal details while hanging with other dads and leaving his charge unsupervised with vulnerable younger kids. 

(Off to backtrack and read beyond the post I quoted.)

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7 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 IMO, it is the duty of the foster parent to keep a watchful eye on his child’s interactions with others, knowing the foster child’s history. That’s what he should have been doing instead of blabbing personal details while hanging with other dads and leaving his charge unsupervised with vulnerable younger kids. 

It was never stated that he was left unsupervised with younger kids, iirc. 

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51 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

you're not a teenager.  

Not even sure what you are trying to say here.

50 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

uh - did you leave something out?  or was that what you meant to say?  that a "spoiled child with over indulgent parents *could not* be abused - and still *not* be a bully.

I happen to think being over indulgent,  etc. etc. - is very selfish (and lazy) on the part of the parent. and they certainly can create bullies by going down that path.   

 

I was listening to a psych who specializes in narcissism - who was describing it's origins.  overly indulgent parents who don't hold their darling accountable is but one source.

Again, not really sure what you're saying or where you are going with this but since I think you might be saying that you agree with me, that children do not have to be abused to be bullies and abuse others, I will just leave it at that. If that's not what you're saying then I think we will just have to agree to disagree. Either way, cheers!

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1 hour ago, sweet2ndchance said:

Not even sure what you are trying to say here.

Again, not really sure what you're saying or where you are going with this but since I think you might be saying that you agree with me, that children do not have to be abused to be bullies and abuse others, I will just leave it at that. If that's not what you're saying then I think we will just have to agree to disagree. Either way, cheers!

teenagers aren't adults - adults aren't teens. so that the poster said they enjoyed little kids is irrelevant to how teens perceive kids.  interests are different, tolerance for small children is different.  it's one of the signs a teen is becoming more of an adult when they can like being around small kids.   

I asked a question about clarifying what you said - because it wasn't clear to me.

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8 hours ago, Farrar said:

So you're saying that you exercise extra caution with all teen males in every situation? That if you were the grandparent and saw that there was a teen male at the house, you'd feel compelled to warn the parents that he might have been near the kids at a well-supervised party?

I find that sad. For the sake of my teen boys, I find it extra sad. For the sake of my dh, who adores little kids and wouldn't hurt a fly and my ds who loves playing with little kids, I find it sad. We are creating a nation of hate for our boys. Instead of being a nation that teaches boys not to abuse, we try to shield them from all children and teach them that they're so dangerous that they can never be trusted.

 

Over 90% of sexual assaults are commited by males - not females. Males are also more likely to be involved in physical altercations. 

Exercising caution around males is sensible, if you are a child of either sex, a woman or a man. 

Going all #notmynigel doesn't really change the above. 

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11 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

Yes,  I think ppl need to understand that abuse happens in many different situations, including ones people think of as 'safe', and that unpredictable teen boy with a very sad history of drug exposure and sexual abuse, plus reports of in-home violence and foster parents who don't get boundaries (oversharing, not dealing with teens behaviour at party) being around young children is enough of a red flag to take extra precautions.

It doesn't mean anyone is saying the young boy is a predator. He is very likely just a young man who is truly struggling with the effects of his upbringing. And people can feel for him being in that situation. 

But others can also take (maybe unneccesary, maybe not) precautions, like sharing with young children's parents the information that they now have.

Safeguarding means kids before teens, especially teen boys. It just does. 

 

The vast majority of teen boys who were sexually abused, or faced any other horrible trauma, do not wear shirts that identify them as such. And typically do not have adults violating their privacy in social settings.

So, I would think that any rational parent with safety concerns would treat the boy in the given scenario the same way they would treat ANY teen boy who’s detailed history they’re not personally familiar with.  Because any teen boy could be or could have been abused.

 

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I would not just assume all girls are safe either.  To me, whether or not to leave my kid alone with someone I don't know very well depends on my own kid's ability to think for and protect herself and react appropriately if something bad does happen.

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We read some books about what’s okay touching and safety and talked about that when dc were young.  

I think teaching children and making sure they know to go to and tell a safe adult if there is any problem—or even if they feel uncomfortable is a help.

Different levels of teaching for age 5 or 10 or 15, and depending on situations that might likely come up

 

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

We read some books about what’s okay touching and safety and talked about that when dc were young.  

 

Just make sure you also cover other situations like having kids undress and/or touch themselves while adult watches.  Or kids taking pictures/videos for an adult.  Then there is having the child watch adult behavior or an adult showing them porn.

There is a lot more to sexual abuse than an adult touching a child.

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20 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

Just make sure you also cover other situations like having kids undress and/or touch themselves while adult watches.  Or kids taking pictures/videos for an adult.  Then there is having the child watch adult behavior or an adult showing them porn.

There is a lot more to sexual abuse than an adult touching a child.

 

I agree.

Nowadays sexting and other computer issues also.

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11 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

 

The vast majority of teen boys who were sexually abused, or faced any other horrible trauma, do not wear shirts that identify them as such. And typically do not have adults violating their privacy in social settings.

So, I would think that any rational parent with safety concerns would treat the boy in the given scenario the same way they would treat ANY teen boy who’s detailed history they’re not personally familiar with.  Because any teen boy could be or could have been abused.

 

 

Yes, people should apply some degree of caution to males around children - and that caution is heightened if the male in question is behaving in a way that concerns an adult, if there are reports of that male experiencing anger issues, and if the male is 'supervised' by people with a weak understanding of boundaries. It doesn't mean all three things are that male teen's 'fault' but that it is OK to apply caution. 

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7 hours ago, SKL said:

I would not just assume all girls are safe either.  To me, whether or not to leave my kid alone with someone I don't know very well depends on my own kid's ability to think for and protect herself and react appropriately if something bad does happen.

 

Life is about risk management, not the elimination of all risk - not all girls are safe, but generally speaking, a child is safer with a female than a male.  Having said that, a female teen behaving in a way that drew an adults attention, who has anger issues at home, and who is supervised by people with weak boundaries is gonna have me exercising extra caution too.

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On 8/11/2019 at 7:49 PM, sweet2ndchance said:

I know very well about childhood emotional neglect, first hand, thank you. And I also know first hand about cps and courts not recognizing the abuse that it is and the lifelong problems it causes. You aren't the only one here who had a crappy childhood. My point was that a spoiled child with doting, over indulging parents could be not abused in any way (physically, verbally, emotionally, financially and any other way you could think of) and still be a bully and abuse others. They aren't copying what has been done to them, they just honestly don't have empathy for others because they have never have to think about anyone but themselves.

Some scattered thoughts:

Kids can also engage in bullying behaviors out of immaturity and lack of tools to do better.  Seeing one child bully another doesn't mean they've been abused or that they've been spoiled or lack empathy - it can also mean they need adults to come along side them and help them learn better tools and awareness.

I was bullied as a child by kids from wonderful families - families without abuse or neglect, without overindulgence.  ...and many of those kids grew up to be kind, decent adults.  But there was a lack of adult supervision and guidance at the school and things spiraled. 

Good kids with great parents and without trauma can do some pretty rotten things - in all areas intentional, specific teaching is a powerful preventative for many forms of abuse.  Adult supervision and guidance is another.  But I don't think supervision alone can prevent emotional, physical, or sexual abuse - there needs to be a lot of teaching.  Emotional intelligence needs to be nurtured, I think... and all too often we can assume that our kids have internalized things they might not have.  (None of the parents of the kids involved in my situation would have thought their child could be so unkind.  We often assume there has to be something wrong with a kid for them to engage in bullying or even assault, but kids are immature and need a lot of coaching.)  (I also don't think coaching alone can prevent bullying - adults need to be the adults and provide reasonable supervision.)

There are also kids whose theory of mind skills are delayed - their ability to recognize that others experience the world differently and that can look from the outside like a lack of empathy, but isn't.

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