Would you say something? UPDATE

[MaBelle]

First, the foster parents have been to son's house before.  Kid has not. This was the first time he was over there.  He is a brand new foster they are planning to adopt.

For whoever asked the child in question is white.

A friend of mine works in the foster care system.  I can address this with her.

I will tell my son.  

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by MaBelle

[school17777]

Yes, I would tell them.

[maize]

I would tell them. I can't protect children from threats I am not aware of.

Not the kid's fault he comes from such an abusive background, but that background does pose a potential threat to others.

[MaBelle]

5 minutes ago, maize said:

I would tell them. I can't protect children from threats I am not aware of.

Not the kid's fault he comes from such an abusive background, but that background does pose a potential threat to others.

Exactly how I feel.  If I had known I would have taken my granddaughters (7, 5 and 4) out for McDonald's and a movie.  

[May]

Yes, tell them. They can do what they want with the information. 

[MaBelle]

My mil had information about a man who was questionable around kids.  He was working on our place building a big shed.  I couldn't figure out why she was at our house every time he was there working.  She was watching the kids around him but never told me.  I found out years later and it really pissed me off that I wasn't clued in.

[Jean in Newcastle]

You can tell them but I would be surprised if 7, 5 and 4 year olds would hang around much with teens. 

[Farrar]

First, not cool of them to share those details IMHO. Saying, “You have to understand that he has a rough background,” is one thing. But sharing more crosses a line in a casual situation like that. That’s his history and privacy. Not the foster parents job to spread that around so openly.

I’d mention that you overheard that he’s a troubled kid with some red flags.

However, I also don’t think the level of interaction likely between a family friend’s kid of a different age a what will likely be a few work events over the years is anything to get overly concerned about. I mean, you’re saying he has a history of being abused, not that he has a history of abusing others. In the absence of any allegations or anything about that, treating the family or him like a pariah seems unfair. With caution, because troubled tedns can cause chaos, yeah. But I wouldn’t freak out, basically.

[MaBelle]

Just now, Jean in Newcastle said:

You can tell them but I would be surprised if 7, 5 and 4 year olds would hang around much with teens. 

Right, I get that but if he was so inclined it would have been easy to target one of the children.  Lots of people, lots of rooms, lots of activity.  My grandkids were not the only little ones there.

[MaBelle]

1 minute ago, Farrar said:

First, not cool of them to share those details IMHO. Saying, “You have to understand that he has a rough background,” is one thing. But sharing more crosses a line in a casual situation like that. That’s his history and privacy. Not the foster parents job to spread that around so openly.

I’d mention that you overheard that he’s a troubled kid with some red flags.

However, I also don’t think the level of interaction likely between a family friend’s kid of a different age a what will likely be a few work events over the years is anything to get overly concerned about. I mean, you’re saying he has a history of being abused, not that he has a history of abusing others. In the absence of any allegations or anything about that, treating the family or him like a pariah seems unfair. With caution, because troubled tedns can cause chaos, yeah. But I wouldn’t freak out, basically.

These foster parents have been over to son's house frequently.  I get the need for privacy, but my need to protect children overrides that.

[MaBelle]

5 minutes ago, MaBelle said:

Right, I get that but if he was so inclined it would have been easy to target one of the children.  Lots of people, lots of rooms, lots of activity.  My grandkids were not the only little ones there.  Plus they are adopting him so he'll be around.

 

[Tap]

Yes, tell them. It doesn't sound like this information was told to someone in confidence.  They need to know that if they see something suspicious involving him, that they may need to step in a bit sooner rather than later.  My 12yo daughter is violent and has massive rages.  She doesn't rage at other people's homes, but sometimes I handle situations very different than I would if she were NT. When she was little, I did give hosts a heads up, just incase I had to pick her up and walk out the door with her. I didn't want to have to explain a quick exit while dealing with an exploding child.  

As far as the history with s3x, that would be a huuuuge red flag for me. He grew up in a world where he was victimized and unfortunately that makes him more likely to become a perpetrator.  The family needs to know, so they can protect thier own children and to not put them in a situation that could result in harm. They need to know to not leave him alone with the kids. Not in the back yard playing outside. Not in the bedroom playing games. Not taking a walk around the block. Never. 

[Farrar]

21 minutes ago, MaBelle said:

These foster parents have been over to son's house frequently.  I get the need for privacy, but my need to protect children overrides that.

Has this child ever abused another person? Ever? I'm not clear from your description.

Second, sharing that he's a potential danger - if he even is - is one thing. And if they're as close as you say, maybe that is a situation where they should share. But you're saying they shared with a random other person at a party in a way you could overhear. I strongly stand by my not okay.

[hippiemamato3]

It was a huge breach of ethics and foster parent confidentiality for that foster dad to be saying anything. I'm shocked and disgusted by this. 

[PeterPan]

34 minutes ago, Farrar said:

First, not cool of them to share those details IMHO. Saying, “You have to understand that he has a rough background,” is one thing. But sharing more crosses a line in a casual situation like that. That’s his history and privacy. Not the foster parents job to spread that around so openly.

I’d mention that you overheard that he’s a troubled kid with some red flags.

Agreed. Those foster parents sound like a pill. My ds has tons of challenging behavior, and I don't show up and go spreading it. It's not fair to the dc, as he wants to be received fresh, where he is that day. 

And as for the whole safety thing, would your kids leave the grandkids alone with ANY teen??? That's absurd. You don't do that. So I think Farrar's less gossipy version is a much kinder way to communicate concern without spreading extreme information. 

[unsinkable]

39 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

You can tell them but I would be surprised if 7, 5 and 4 year olds would hang around much with teens. 

This is very naive about how predators operate.

[PeterPan]

2 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

It was a huge breach of ethics and foster parent confidentiality for that foster dad to be saying anything. I'm shocked and disgusted by this. 

Can they be reported? Is it actually a code/rule violation? It almost sounds like they're in over their heads. I mean, who brings their kid out if he's having a bad day?? My ds has meltdowns like that, and we don't take him out if he's not well enough to be out. And if he was well enough, then why not supervise and solve the problem? No need to say stuff like that. It's just trashing him in front of people so he never has a chance.

[PeterPan]

1 minute ago, unsinkable said:

This is very naive about how predators operate.

Exactly. Which is why it wouldn't matter who the teen was, you'd still be careful and still supervise.

[lynn]

I'd want to know.  yes I'd tell my son and dil.   That's to big not to know about.

[hippiemamato3]

Just now, PeterPan said:

Can they be reported? Is it actually a code/rule violation? It almost sounds like they're in over their heads. I mean, who brings their kid out if he's having a bad day?? My ds has meltdowns like that, and we don't take him out if he's not well enough to be out. And if he was well enough, then why not supervise and solve the problem? No need to say stuff like that. It's just trashing him in front of people so he never has a chance.

Yes, it would be grounds for losing your license. 

[Farrar]

This is an abused child. Not an abuser as far as we know. Abused children should not have to walk around with signs around their necks that say, "I was abused. Stay away from me. Maybe I'll abuse your kids next."

[PeterPan]

And is he a person of color or a minority? It's just appalling on so many levels.

So yes, report it, but report it to the right people, the supervisors of this fp.

[PeterPan]

2 minutes ago, Farrar said:

This is an abused child.

Or he had those drug exposures in utero. He sounds like he has a lot of challenges, poor thing. I think the behaviors he's having would be typical challenges for fetal drug and alcohol exposures. 

How utterly medieval for this fp to be branding the dc. 

[katilac]

47 minutes ago, MaBelle said:

Exactly how I feel.  If I had known I would have taken my granddaughters (7, 5 and 4) out for McDonald's and a movie.  

While I would certainly tell  your son so he can be aware, all that's required is awareness and supervision. They don't need to be moved to a completely different location just because a person who has been sexually abused is present. 

1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

Can they be reported? Is it actually a code/rule violation? It almost sounds like they're in over their heads. I mean, who brings their kid out if he's having a bad day?? My ds has meltdowns like that, and we don't take him out if he's not well enough to be out. And if he was well enough, then why not supervise and solve the problem? No need to say stuff like that. It's just trashing him in front of people so he never has a chance.

The OP doesn't say anything about a meltdown or extreme behaviors, she simply said he was acting up. That could mean anything, and kids can and do act up even when adequately supervised. Maybe he was indeed acting poorly for a long time with no intervention, but that hasn't been stated. 

[katilac]

5 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

And is he a person of color or a minority? 

Um, what? 

 

[PeterPan]

1 minute ago, katilac said:

The OP doesn't say anything about a meltdown or extreme behaviors, she simply said he was acting up.

At the party he was having mild behaviors, yes. But at the home, within the previous 24 hours, he had had a major loss of self-control resulting in destruction of property. Unfortunately, btdt with ds, and that ds probably wasn't ready to go out or should have at least had more supervision, knowing he was fragile.

2 minutes ago, katilac said:

has been sexually abused is present. 

Oh my, you're right, I didn't read carefully. How horrible. Oh my. 

[katilac]

1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

At the party he was having mild behaviors, yes. But at the home, within the previous 24 hours, he had had a major loss of self-control resulting in destruction of property. Unfortunately, btdt with ds, and that ds probably wasn't ready to go out or should have at least had more supervision, knowing he was fragile.

Right, but what's true for your ds may not be true for this kid. We also have no idea of what the foster dad meant by 'destroyed the house.' I have heard plenty of parents say that their kids destroyed the house when all they meant was creating a huge mess. 

[Farrar]

3 minutes ago, katilac said:

Right, but what's true for your ds may not be true for this kid. We also have no idea of what the foster dad meant by 'destroyed the house.' I have heard plenty of parents say that their kids destroyed the house when all they meant was creating a huge mess. 

In the context of the conversation, I seriously doubt that's what he meant, though who knows if by their standards that means breaking a couple of things or literally causing damage that will require a handyman and new furniture shopping.

[gardenmom5]

59 minutes ago, MaBelle said:

My mil had information about a man who was questionable around kids.  He was working on our place building a big shed.  I couldn't figure out why she was at our house every time he was there working.  She was watching the kids around him but never told me.  I found out years later and it really pissed me off that I wasn't clued in.

at least she was doing something.  there are adults who wouldn't have cared enough to do anything, let alone say anything.

57 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

You can tell them but I would be surprised if 7, 5 and 4 year olds would hang around much with teens. 

normal teens dont' want to hang with little kids.  this isn't a normal teen, he's been s3xually abused as a child for 10 years.  that can make him a serious risk to children.  my sil has a relation who is now in prison for life because of how he was with children WHILE he was a *teen*.

I hope the boy is getting therapy for the abuse he suffered, but the risk is real.

[QueenCat]

Are you sure that your son and dil don't already know.? They might already be taking precautions and didn't find it necessary tell you. 

[Farrar]

2 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

at least she was doing something.  there are adults who wouldn't have cared enough to do anything, let alone say anything.

normal teens dont' want to hang with little kids.  this isn't a normal teen, he's been s3xually abused as a child for 10 years.  that can make him a serious risk to children.  my sil has a relation who is now in prison for life because of how he was with children WHILE he was a *teen*.

I hope the boy is getting therapy for the abuse he suffered, but the risk is real.

While it increases his likelihood to abuse, it's not by enough to justify this statement. The vast majority of abused children do NOT go on to abuse. This is myth that has been studied and shown to be mostly untrue, yet people continue to perpetuate the idea that abused children are likely pedophiles in the making.

[maize]

25 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Agreed. Those foster parents sound like a pill. My ds has tons of challenging behavior, and I don't show up and go spreading it. It's not fair to the dc, as he wants to be received fresh, where he is that day. 

And as for the whole safety thing, would your kids leave the grandkids alone with ANY teen??? That's absurd. You don't do that. So I think Farrar's less gossipy version is a much kinder way to communicate concern without spreading extreme information. 

My friend's pre-pubescent daughter was molested by an older teen family aquaintance at a wedding reception. It doesn't take lots of time alone for something to happen.

[Farrar]

1 minute ago, QueenCat said:

Are you sure that your son and dil don't already know.? They might already be taking precautions and didn't find it necessary tell you. 

Given how casual the foster parents were about sharing so much so openly, if they really have been over at their house as often as MaBelle says, I'd honestly be surprised if they didn't already know.

[Farrar]

Just now, happysmileylady said:

As I said before, it's awful that this child has had to endure so much terribleness in his short life.  But, the health and safety of my own kids (or my family) will always come before the feelings of someone who is at higher risk of being an abuser.  It's sad, but the fact is that a sexually abused person is at higher risk of becoming an abuser himself, and therefore that person being around smaller children puts those children at higher risk of being abused themselves.  The people caring for those smaller children have a duty to protect them and therefore SHOULD know.

The vast majority of boys sexually abused as children DO NOT go on to abuse others.

[catz]

1 minute ago, katilac said:

Right, but what's true for your ds may not be true for this kid. We also have no idea of what the foster dad meant by 'destroyed the house.' I have heard plenty of parents say that their kids destroyed the house when all they meant was creating a huge mess. 

Realistically, would they be out if their house was literally destroyed?  

I think telling your kids he has a troubled background is fair.  Honestly, young kids should not be left unsupervised with any little known, unvetted teen for a multitude of reasons.  I don't think this needs to mean shunning and avoiding entirely.  The kid is a victim.  Since this FP has such loose lips, I agree they probably know already.  

I do think FP was out of line sharing that many details.  And I think the OP is out of line sharing them here with personal identifying info and a real photo so I do hope the OP is deleted soon.

2 minutes ago, maize said:

My friend's pre-pubescent daughter was molested by an older teen family aquaintance at a wedding reception. It doesn't take lots of time alone for something to happen.

That's why supervision is needed broadly for young kids.  If you take your young kids to an event with a bunch of people you  don't really know well, they don't free range.  That's just good parenting.  

[Farrar]

Just now, happysmileylady said:

But being abused does increase the liklihood that the person will then go on to abuse themselves.  A history of sexual abuse does increase the risk.

 

But so do a huge number of other things. This one is nowhere near the risk factor that people think it is. It's been extensively studied in part because people are so convinced it's true. And one thing they think adds fuel to the fire for risk is stigmatizing an already abused child, which is what is basically being suggested here. And, honestly, I blame the foster parents for that.

He's a troubled kid. Troubled kids on this level should absolutely be watched by all the loving people in their lives and gotten tons of support and help. It sounds like he has the potential to cause a lot of problems in general. I mean, he "destroyed" the house, whatever that means. And he "acted up" at this party - though the phrasing in the OP doesn't say it was around the kids, she says it was observed by the adult men, which... gosh... given who abused him, "acting up" around adult  men seems well within normal. He clearly needs supervision. He does not need additional stigma.

[gardenmom5]

21 minutes ago, Farrar said:

While it increases his likelihood to abuse, it's not by enough to justify this statement. The vast majority of abused children do NOT go on to abuse. This is myth that has been studied and shown to be mostly untrue, yet people continue to perpetuate the idea that abused children are likely pedophiles in the making.

if 100% of abused children didn't abuse other children - you would be justified.  but the reality is - some do.  I'm not suggesting shunning him, just to be aware.

by your OWN statement.... vast majority =/= none.  and I was abused as a child.

[Liz CA]

1 hour ago, MaBelle said:

My mil had information about a man who was questionable around kids.  He was working on our place building a big shed.  I couldn't figure out why she was at our house every time he was there working.  She was watching the kids around him but never told me.  I found out years later and it really pissed me off that I wasn't clued in.

 

But at least she was making the effort to be there and monitor things herself. Maybe she thought it would be gossip or it was partly unsubstantiated at the time?

[sweet2ndchance]

15 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

normal teens dont' want to hang with little kids.

I disagree. As a teen I loved playing with little kids and would often get them all together to play games and keep them out of the adults hair at a function like the one described in the original post without being asked to do so. My children, regardless of their gender, did the same thing, even as teens, as they were always taught to make sure that every child present should be offered the chance to be included in group games. They knew that little children looked up to them as teenagers and they needed to show them how to include everyone in  their games. BUT the biggest rule of all that I taught them, and abided by myself when I was a teen, is that you ALWAYS play with younger children in plain sight of the adults. You don't take them off to a bedroom or secluded area. Even if your intentions are noble, you don't want to create a situation where anyone can question your motives. If someone gets hurt or doesn't understand why you like playing with little children as an older child, you want to make sure that everyone, all adults included, can see for themselves exactly what is going on. It always made me sad having to explain that to them because I would usually have to start explaining it around the age of 10 and they were still so innocent themselves then and couldn't understand why someone would think they wanted to hurt another child or do bad things but assuming the worst is the world we live in sadly.

In relation to the OP, I would tell the parents what was heard. But that would be it. Beyond that I don't feel it is my job to tell them what to do with that information. I would make sure that any function I am at, all children stay within sight of adults when this child is around, but I certainly wouldn't avoid him purposely. He will have outbursts, he will make mistakes but he has to learn how to function around other people. He can't do that in isolation. We learn how to act by watching others, no matter what our background is. However, I would have no problem asking the child and foster parents to leave (or leave myself if it isn't my home or social function) if things got out of hand or questionable with the foster child. This child needs grace as he re-learns how to function from hopefully normal people but I wouldn't alienate him until it was clear that he can and would cross a line that shouldn't be crossed. Just my opinion for what it's worth.

And I absolutely agree that those foster parent should be reported. They are suppose to be guiding this child into a new better life, not branding him for life with his past. That is beyond cruel and disgusting to me.

[unsinkable]

The odds are the foster parents do not know everything happened to their foster son prior to his placement with them. Or even if he HAS harmed other children himself.

Of course kids should be supervised. Ask any person who was abused at a (family) party by an older or more powerful relative (party goer).

And if the boy was acting out...Why was the dad not addressing THAT instead of talking with a group of men?

[catz]

6 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

 

And if the boy was acting out...Why was the dad not addressing THAT instead of talking with a group of men?

Agree with this.  The FP should have been supervising and dealing with (and possibly removing) the teen if he were having issues rather than flapping his gums about his background.  Letting people know he is with you temporarily as a foster child would be plenty.  He sounds unsuited to be fostering troubled teens from this interaction at least.  

[Tanaqui]

41 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

if 100% of abused children didn't abuse other children - you would be justified.  but the reality is - some do.  I'm not suggesting shunning him, just to be aware.

by your OWN statement.... vast majority =/= none.  and I was abused as a child.

 

By that reasoning, since somewhat more than 0% of kids who haven't been abused harm other children, you should never allow any kids near your kids.

As for the disclosure - revealing the details of this teen's past in such a way is such a huge ethical violation that my opinion of these people's integrity is in the toilet. I have no faith in their honesty.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Tanaqui

[Tanaqui]

Quote

I agree completely.  A simple, “he’s had a hard life,” would have sufficed as explanation if an explanation was really necessary. Strangers didn’t need all those details, because the stigma is very very real.

 

Case in point: This thread.

[Liz CA]

47 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

By that reasoning, since somewhat more than 0% of kids who haven't been abused harm other children, you should never allow any kids near your kids.

As for the disclosure - revealing the details of this teen's past in such a way is such a huge ethical violation that my opinion of these people's integrity is in the toilet. I have no faith in their honesty.

 

I am just guessing here...I have worked with foster parents and foster children in the past. While I would not have divulged this much information to a group of people (I may have said it to our friends in private - not in hearing of the child but so they have better understanding or just to share) I wonder if this fp was a little weary from everyone commenting on the "different behavior" of this child.  Instead of viewing it as "let me gossip about foster son's past because it's so horrific and sensational," maybe this parent - in the moment of exasperation or sadness - just shared too much in hopes that people would back off a bit and show more understanding. I am speculating that most of us would approach or view the behavior of a child differently if we know this kind of thing about his background compared to thinking he is just a brat or has no manners, or whatever...

Foster parenting is not for the faint of heart in most cases. Obviously I don't know this particular foster family or if there is a pattern of oversharing of confidential info...just my five cents.

ETA: I just quoted Tanaqui's last post but I am not singling this post out. Several others have expressed concern over how this information came to light in a group setting.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Liz CA

[Pen]

I don’t know what the rules are everywhere but in 2 states I had involvement as an FP, what the foster father said about the boy’s past is against rules as a breach of the child’s confidentiality rights.  (Said in front of the child, it also seems like it might be emotionally abusive.)

 I think the situation should be reported to social services in your area. 

I’d also say something to your grandchildren’s parents. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Pen

[Laurie]

Heck yes.  And  I would've said it last night at the party. 

I'm concerned about the lack of self-control in a teen.  I wouldn't want young children to get hurt if he goes into a rage about something and starts throwing things or slamming doors.  

I often read a regular feature in our newspaper about children/teens who need adoptive families.   The descriptions make it easy to read between the lines and identify those that are going to have very challenging behaviors.   At least that's what I assume when a child/teen needs to be in a home without young children, etc.  It's really sad that humans available for adoption can end up sounding like the pitbulls in the animal shelter descriptions, but people need to know what's going on, for everyone's sake.

[SKL]

I am confused by the OP.  Tell who?  Tell them what?

Was it the foster dad who told outsiders about the child's background?  That is a horrible thing to do and possibly illegal.

So is the question whether to tell on the foster dad for blabbing?  Tell who?

Or is the question whether to tell your children about the foster child's issue?  I would say no, unless the child is on some published offender list.

Usually the people who hurt our kids are people we know and thought we could trust.  It is on us to give kids the kind of tools and supervision that will reasonably protect them from bad actors.  You don't have to know what another kid's background is to provide proper supervision for your own kid.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

100% of non abused children don't abuse other children.  

Parents should be aware of the possibility of abuse whenever their children are around others, and take precaution.  For example, I don't leave my kids alone with people they don't know well.  If this kid regularly acts out, and it sounds like this wasn't a one off incident, then he's not someone to leave the grandchildren with.  But that decision can be made, and children can be kept safe without violating his confidentiality.

 

I didn't say 100% of abused children abuse other children.  only that there is a percentage, and it is higher among those who've been abused than those who haven't.

yes, some teens that weren't abused - go on to abuse.  unless there are other things going on- the margins are still lower.

of those who were abused - they are more likely to engage in self-destructive and inappropriate behavior (even if it doesn't go over the edge to abuse of another).   

btdt - there's a reason I said I hope he's getting therapy for his background going forwards.

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

 

By that reasoning, since somewhat more than 0% of kids who haven't been abused harm other children, you should never allow any kids near your kids.

As for the disclosure - revealing the details of this teen's past in such a way is such a huge ethical violation that my opinion of these people's integrity is in the toilet. I have no faith in their honesty.

agree it was an ethical violation on the foster father's part.

agree shunning isn't nice - and having engaged in inappropriate (not abusive) behavior after *I* was s3xually abused did lead to shunning by other parents.   so I know that side intimately as well.

we should always pay attention to what is happening with our kids.  it's our job to keep them safe.  just because a kid doesn't have a record - doesn't mean their not dangerous.  (a friend's relative who was a pedo in his teens and is now locked up for life.  nothing in his background.)

[unsinkable]

13 minutes ago, SKL said:

I am confused by the OP.  Tell who?  Tell them what?

Was it the foster dad who told outsiders about the child's background?  That is a horrible thing to do and possibly illegal.

So is the question whether to tell on the foster dad for blabbing?  Tell who?

Or is the question whether to tell your children about the foster child's issue?  I would say no, unless the child is on some published offender list.

Usually the people who hurt our kids are people we know and thought we could trust.  It is on us to give kids the kind of tools and supervision that will reasonably protect them from bad actors.  You don't have to know what another kid's background is to provide proper supervision for your own kid.

MaB wants to tell her son who has children about the foster kid's background.

answering the bolded. BBM