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Extracurriculars for high schoolers


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4 hours ago, Farrar said:

Yes yes. I think this is why it has to be their thing. When I see parents micromanaging this stuff, it's hard for me to watch. And that's weird in a way because I'm a homeschool parent so I'm obviously micromanaging their academic education in many ways. But that's all the more reason that extracurriculars are where I try to step back. So it's also a place where they get real independence.

I agree with this 100%. My daughter plans to attend circus school after high school, and I've raised her with an academically rigorous homeschool that was very much eclectic and moved at her pace. She's a moderately gifted academic student but is more gifted physically. She has a 2e diagnosis with ADD and working memory processing challenges unless it's aerial--she can focus and master anything on silks and rope! We can't find enough local instruction at her level anymore, and it's become a real problem for us to find places where she can get enough time. We are so jealous of all the people who are able to spend 20+ hours dancing! Aerial dancing is so impossible because of rigging and safety issues, and we own our own rig but weather is always an issue. She's in a performance troupe but many circus events are private events with alcohol so she can't work them. She loves to help teach, but we realized her TA time teaching others was more than a full academic class last year! She's started taking "ground" dancing to help her aerial skills and we travel at least a couple times a year for her to get some rock solid training that she can work with back at home. 

She is a natural introvert so we have to work hard to make sure she's doing a class or activity with her friends regularly because she still would rather hang out at home decompressing after gigs, performances, teaching, practice, than gather her friends together.

But, somewhere along the way, I managed to back away from just about everything. I still search for training to travel to and reach out to coaches initially but once we make connections, she owns it. She is helping to run a huge weekend-long event that she's been performing in since she was 8, and at 15 she's now one of the leaders! She's mastered costuming and make-up and all sorts of skills that I helped facilitate classes early on but then she took over. If she hadn't taken over by now, we would have stopped and moved on. I never pushed this, but it was her love since she started nearly 8 years ago!

In comparison, she was a rock solid AoPS kid until geometry when she just decided she didn't care about math enough to spend time on AoPS. We switched to DO and she never got a single problem or question wrong (once she figured out how to take a test!). I told her I thought it was too easy for her, and she said she didn't care. She felt accomplished and successful doing well at it, and she helped me come to terms with accepting that just because she can do something academically, doesn't mean she has to. 

I'm doing my best to really listen to her what she wants academically. She's leaving my homeschool as a critical thinker with an absolutely rock solid foundation for being a good person and citizen of the world. It's ok that she's not applying to competitive colleges. She's going to take a gap year too to work and earn money before going to school and might take some community college classes then. At least she's able to make a living wage right out of high school because of her local connections so I'm happy about that! Plus, circus school is a fraction of college costs!

Edited by deerforest
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1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

 

I can totally see this. I guess my only question would be, “How much does it matter whether the parent introduces the activity (suitable to the child’s temperament and aptitude) or the child chooses?  Is there any difference in benefit if the child falls ‘in love/like’ with the activity? There are some kids who know what they like and/or show talent early on...something that can be cultivated. There are others, like my DS, who has little/no passion for anything but history. And, while that’s nice, it won’t do anything for his noodle arms. Developing the mind, body, and spirit is our goal so we struggle with this.

 

I think trial and error is a good thing. We tried all sorts of things especially with my youngest one. I will say there were activities where my children could have technically excelled if they worked hard enough but would never have shined truly because they lacked talent. We dropped those eventually as we prioritized. There were activities kids wanted but lacked any aptitude. Those we also tried and gave up. I think it’s OK to go around and ask kids to at least try out various things. The type of work though that is required to be truly excellent at something is hard to make kids do (I have seen it done at times, but would consider child abuse personally). You can only work 3-4 hours a day on something because you truly love it or you make a kid miserable. So I say low intensity extracurriculars are Ok, but high intensity has to be a child’s choice. I will say though that if you find something where talent is matched with work, miracles can happen. One of my kids had accomplished in 2 years what typically takes 7 (according to his teachers) and it was one of those things we never thought he would be good at. We are a little stunned at the ease of the progress. It wasn’t like that when he tried other things. Not like that at all. 😬

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Dd17 is already pursuing her music professionally. I am in Ireland with her as she performs a tour with Riverdance. She is currently putting in between 4-8+ hours a day with rehearsals and shows six days a week. Her DE courses begin next week in the middle of the tour and she will complete her schoolwork in the mornings. 

She has taken a rigorous course of study throughout high school while also maintaining a rigorous practice and touring schedule. I don't think she believes there are only so many hours a day she can be productive. Her music is all hers and has been for years. When she was younger I was her enabler. I researched resources for her and drove her all over the country but I have always given her the freedom to interact with her musical peers (usually adults) so she would have those skills. Because she is a minor I have to be here. I walk her to the theater for work then go back to walk home with her after for safety reasons. 

We have decided to graduate her from high school in December because she will be doing a six month tour on her own and I want her to enjoy it. She has found a program of university study she can work around her tour schedule so is applying for that to begin next fall.

Even if she decided on a non-music career or course of study, I would not regret the time and money we have put into her music. She loves every minute of it and has worked hard to achieve her own goals, met interesting people who have become like family, and learned a lot about life and herself. I think it is empowering to know with hard work and practice you can achieve great things.

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On 8/12/2019 at 1:26 PM, lewelma said:

I'm currently reading a book called "In Search of Deeper Learning," out this year from Harvard University press.  Two professor spent 6 years observing schools across the country looking for deeper learning. They found that basically it happens in electives and extracurriculars, and rarely happens in core classes.  Core classes have so many external requirements from the State or the College Board that usually focus on breadth rather than depth, so that these classes rarely have time to get higher up Blooms Taxonomy.  They found that students are more engaged and self directed in electives and extracurriculars, and that is where all the higher order thinking skills were being developed.  Basically, ECs and electives are what core classes need to replicate. Fascinating stuff.

 

I know that my son always went way deeper and enjoyed classes and ECs way more when he was doing fewer of them. He definitely never fit the typical highly gifted child profile I heard others talking about of always wanting to maximize the number of credits and courses taken. He’s always been much happier when allowed to focus deeply on a few things of his choosing (including both ECs and classes) rather than doing many things at a more superficial level.

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On 8/11/2019 at 6:57 PM, Roadrunner said:

Am I the only one worried about burnout? Or are they young enough to be able to shoulder it all and come out of it mentally sane? 

We don’t live in a competitive area but an acquaintance from Bay Area (a pediatrician) had some horror stories for me one time. They moved out of state to get their 4 kids away from unhealthy pressure cooker environment. Her kindergartener was having anxiety issues because he was the only kid in his Cupertino school (his words) who didn’t have pre and after school courses. 

I vowed my children would be free birds (work hard but have plenty of free time) and now I realize it’s not going to turn out as I had hoped. I think I want to have my cake and eat it too.

I can’t imagine having a child in some of these pressure cooker environments. The way we balanced time intensive ECs with high level academics was to not do high level in every subject every year and limit the amount of out sourcing with grades. Since he started some high school level courses in middle school, we had more time to spread out the academics. So for example, by the time he started dual enrollment at the local LAC in eleventh grade, he had already done more than enough high school level English and History (including some very interesting and unusual stuff at our co-op) that he could really focus on science and social sciences (Economics, Psychology) college classes (his main interests) while still doing Math (at home) and Spanish (outsourced but not graded). I did a transcript by subject, not by grade, so it still showed increasing level of rigor and because he fortunately tests well, we had the test scores to back everything up. Also, we weren’t trying to necessarily accumulate credits or have him fulfill any certain college general Ed requirements in high school. All of his dual enrollment classes were chosen based solely on his interests.

 I thought of this thread when I read this article today, although I think it is mainly talking about elementary school.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-really-learn-our-children-need-the-power-of-play-11565262002

Edited by Frances
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On 8/12/2019 at 1:41 PM, teachermom2834 said:

We all get frustrated by the constant requests for dh and/or me to volunteer for stuff because my kids want their own stuff and we want them to handle themselves. My ds does not want me attending 4-H conferences with him. He packs his garment bag with all his dress clothes and doesn’t want me there asking if he should iron his shirt or making sure he is on time or whatever. He is practicing being an adult and he doesn’t need me there. I do understand needing volunteers so we try to help with things for other age groups when we can and we do make donations of supplies and money and help with transportation.

When ds was playing baseball we made sure it was his thing. We missed games sometimes and sat in the outfield instead of right behind home plate. Other parents made comments about us being unsupportive. I heard my ds tell a high school coach “my mom doesn’t care about baseball. It’s awesome!” Haha. The approach worked for our family.

People do confuse parents taking a backseat for parents that are unsupportive but that couldn’t be farther from the truth.

 

 

Your last sentence is so very, very true. My son was extremely independent from a very young age and did not need us taking him to every practice, game, event, etc. He was very driven to pursue the ECs he chose and would make things happen and figure out most logistics on his own by his own choice.

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Well, life changed suddenly-DD is now out of her primary extracurricular for at least the next couple of months-she is rehabbing knee pain issues, so she won't be doing travel cheer this season, or at least the first half of it. She is feeling pretty adrift.

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