Dyscalculia and calculation/procedure

[PeterPan]

7 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Also, my son isn't exactly self-teaching, but he does prefer to interact with the book first.

Just as a total aside, this thread is making me ask if I need to have something my ds does without verbal. I don't know. He's himself, sigh, so I don't know. We get a lot done together. It's just the case that there isn't a lot he sits down and does independently. I don't *know* if math could be that. I've tried to keep it entirely brief and interactive so he doesn't associate it with stress. 

I guess that's the real problem, that for him stress shuts down everything. That's probably not doing him well in a sense. However most of what I have now that I use with him is at instructional level. I don't know, just thinking out loud. It seems like a romantically nice vision, lol.

And yes, you can do ED for base changes and other things, but it really doesn't sound like he needs them. I must be missing it. I also like a lot of diversity in math. I have some algebra with dice, this and that with dice books from Didax to use with him this year. We did one of their geometry/something kind of books this past year and it was a joy. I think it was labeled maybe gr5-8. We've been doing Tang math. So he might be 2nd grade in the one and ahead in the other, lol. 

[Lecka]

Peter Pan — I have been thinking the same things about what math might be able to be more independent.

And I thought about it this morning — and it seems that review math facts on paper can be good to work on independence, but for everything else right now it’s not the right time to increase independence.  Because — I do want to check his work as he goes, and I do write things for him to line them up if he asks me to, and things like that.  

That stays with having something that is review for independent work, but I am pretty comfortable with that right now. 

By age it would be good if he was more independent, but I don’t think this is the venue for it.  There are a lot of venues though and academics is only one area, too.  

[PeterPan]

Adding: I don't know who I'm kidding. Ds can't yet write his numbers reliable, lol. Like seriously, it's one of the goals they suggested to us for his year. He's now able to write a list of words (7-10) reliably and legibly with similar size. That bump seemed to come when I started working on VMI with him. We tossed our OT for this new year and it's just me and him. 

So even things most people would do as fun independent work aren't independent for him. 

Here are some of those books

                                            Dice Activities for Mathematical Thinking                                     

                                            Dice Activities for Algebraic Thinking                                     

 

[PeterPan]

1 minute ago, Lecka said:

Peter Pan — I have been thinking the same things about what math might be able to be more independent.

And I thought about it this morning — and it seems that review math facts on paper can be good to work on independence, but for everything else right now it’s not the right time to increase independence.  Because — I do want to check his work as he goes, and I do write things for him to line them up if he asks me to, and things like that.  

That stays with having something that is review for independent work, but I am pretty comfortable with that right now. 

By age it would be good if he was more independent, but I don’t think this is the venue for it.  There are a lot of venues though and academics is only one area, too.  

That's probably about reality. We're working on getting other things in his life independent, like his daily living routines, being able to cook, etc. 

It's just such a nice romantic vision, lol. Maybe I'll find something. They day could come, lol. He just doesn't seem to bite on the marvelous things I find. I started doing dot to dots for myself, and I find them so peaceful. I want to try them on my ds again, just easy ones that having challenging pictures but only go to 100. He can see maze solutions too quickly, so they tend to be boring. I did find a book of dot to dots in my stash I'm hoping will work. 

I'm also thinking about having him do the drawing workbooks (I forget the name, in a box with like 8 books), skipping the handwriting and only doing the step by step drawing. I think he might be able to do that as solid independent work if I teach him how and build him up to it. I want just a little. I got a 3rd grade BJU science text I thought he could read independently. Just some stuff like that. Maybe I'll get some old BJU readers. They could work. 

I'm just setting up his office and thinking hard. We've had the most refreshing, COMPLETELY OFF summer, lol. 

[lewelma]

As for independence, I'm currently scribing calculus for my ds(15).  He can write the problems but it slows him waaaaay down.  So we have spent a week with me scribing to just get through the revision before moving on. This is obviously a 2E problem

And in general, he has requested that I sit next to him during math, so that is what I do. We are starting to work on independence, and I have high hopes to have it by 18 when he goes to college.  As a very wise woman on this board told me many years ago, there is a lot of maturing that happens in the older teen years.

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

I guess that's the real problem, that for him stress shuts down everything. That's probably not doing him well in a sense.

It's a fine line to walk, and you've made a lot of progress. I imagine it's hard to know you've made progress but that it still doesn't look like what you maybe had in mind or on the timeline you'd like.

[PeterPan]

3 minutes ago, kbutton said:

It's a fine line to walk, and you've made a lot of progress. I imagine it's hard to know you've made progress but that it still doesn't look like what you maybe had in mind or on the timeline you'd like.

I think lewelma is right that some of this will come in the teen years. And unfortunately, reality is once that happens they poof and leave, sigh.

And yes, it's progress relative to himself. Really, the behaviorist doesn't push for "independent work" only the IS who come in will mention it. But even this last one wasn't so all-fired. The first one we brought in was more brusk and presumptive. She watched him and she thought he could do all these things. So I spend time thinking about why I'm not able to get him to do those things, lol. But we've since moved to the ASD2 label, which probably explains some of it.

We've got a lot of good things going. It's just very relative. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by PeterPan

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

I'm also thinking about having him do the drawing workbooks (I forget the name, in a box with like 8 books), skipping the handwriting and only doing the step by step drawing.

Draw Write Now? That could be good.

Have you seen Lamb's Book of Art? It's step-by-step art that starts with color wheel information, blending colors, etc. Some projects are more open-ended than others, but it doesn't require anything swanky at all. It's really pencils, crayons, markers. https://www.christianbook.com/the-lambs-book-of-art-1/barry-stebbing/9780970040541/pd/981013

I actually thought my artsy kiddo would think it was beneath him, but he likes it. He does prefer step-by-step drawing over this text, but he will do Lamb's Book pretty happily.

[PeterPan]

Just now, kbutton said:

Draw Write Now? That could be good.

Have you seen Lamb's Book of Art? It's step-by-step art that starts with color wheel information, blending colors, etc. Some projects are more open-ended than others, but it doesn't require anything swanky at all. It's really pencils, crayons, markers. https://www.christianbook.com/the-lambs-book-of-art-1/barry-stebbing/9780970040541/pd/981013

I actually thought my artsy kiddo would think it was beneath him, but he likes it. He does prefer step-by-step drawing over this text, but he will do Lamb's Book pretty happily.

Interesting, it has been a long time since I looked at it. I don't think I did it with dd, don't actually remember. I'll go look. And yes DWN was it. 

[prairiewindmomma]

My 2E dysgraphic, dyscalcic kid uses a calculator for long division and long multiplication. It frees up enough brain power to be able to function. He *can* do algebra on his own, with him writing, but we are able to accomplish about 10x the work when I scribe. He still needs a fair bit of instruction and review---but on the statewide testing this year he tested in the top 15% statewide for math. My jaw was on the floor. He had a huge jump where things "clicked" this year.  This came after a huge multi-year intervention on my part.  I *still* don't know what high school is going to look like, but algebra and geometry so far have been WAY easier than elementary school math. 

 

[Heathermomster]

On 8/11/2019 at 4:18 PM, lewelma said:

As for independence, I'm currently scribing calculus for my ds(15).  He can write the problems but it slows him waaaaay down.  So we have spent a week with me scribing to just get through the revision before moving on. This is obviously a 2E problem

And in general, he has requested that I sit next to him during math, so that is what I do. We are starting to work on independence, and I have high hopes to have it by 18 when he goes to college.  As a very wise woman on this board told me many years ago, there is a lot of maturing that happens in the older teen years.

Amen!!!