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heartlikealion

Huge ICE raid in my state

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Apparently the largest state-wide one. Seven different locations. 

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/07/749243985/mississippi-immigration-raids-net-hundreds-of-workers

I do not know at this time if families I worked with last school year were affected. I worked exclusively with Hispanic students whose parents were transplants (homework help because their parents often didn’t speak much English). Many families in the Hispanic communities are employed at chicken plants. 

Ds doesn’t know it yet but the book he’s reading is about deportation (Gaby, Lost and Found). 

I don’t know what the answer is, but seeing the scrabble for foster care and devastated families doesn’t seem like the best we can do. I saw on fb requests for foster parents. I don’t actually live in the same school district where I tutored. 

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apparently ICE means something different to you than it does to me.

 here an ICE raid would mean a big drug bust. ICE= crystal methamphetamine, a HUGE HUGE problem in Australia at the moment and devastating many rural communities 

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19 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

apparently ICE means something different to you than it does to me.

 here an ICE raid would mean a big drug bust. ICE= crystal methamphetamine, a HUGE HUGE problem in Australia at the moment and devastating many rural communities 

 

ICE- Immigration and Customs Enforcement

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This is all so upsetting to me.  I have had families of students leave out of fear, an d families detained.  

I have some ideas of what I think could help, but it would be too political to post.

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I think it's inhumane and will be (yet another) blight on us in the history books.

Yes, something probably needs to be done about illegal immigration. Tearing families apart is not it, for many reasons. The hypocrisy of doing it in a nation that loves to proclaim its Christian and family values . . . it boggles the mind.

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That’s awful.

i just heard on the radio that they are moving a bunch of parentless immigrant children to Virginia because there is no room for them in the south. (I think they were originally being held in Mississippi or Alabama.) It was something like 440 children detained without or separate from their parents. That troubles me. 

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We have a local farm that I am quite positive has a number of illegal immigrants working on it.  I’ve been there with the ambulance and when we show up with red lights flashing, people start running into the woods. Instead of arresting them, I’d rather see the owners and managers of the farm arrested.  I’ve been inside the “housing” they provide and it’s incredibly overcrowded—14 or 15 people in a single wide, one bathroom trailer. I’m sure they aren’t paying legal wages either. Of course they aren’t offering benefits either, but since these are illegal immigrants none of the workers are going to complain.

My personal opinion is to arrest the hiring managers and anyone else facilitating the hiring or poor conditions.  Then find a way to offer a path to legal immigration or citizenship, pending a background check. But I don’t run the world.

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55 minutes ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

We have a local farm that I am quite positive has a number of illegal immigrants working on it.  I’ve been there with the ambulance and when we show up with red lights flashing, people start running into the woods. Instead of arresting them, I’d rather see the owners and managers of the farm arrested.  I’ve been inside the “housing” they provide and it’s incredibly overcrowded—14 or 15 people in a single wide, one bathroom trailer. I’m sure they aren’t paying legal wages either. Of course they aren’t offering benefits either, but since these are illegal immigrants none of the workers are going to complain.

My personal opinion is to arrest the hiring managers and anyone else facilitating the hiring or poor conditions.  Then find a way to offer a path to legal immigration or citizenship, pending a background check. But I don’t run the world.

This it’s the employers who should be arrested.  If you’re going to deport the workers do so in an orderly fashion so families can make arrangements. Illegal immigration would grind to a halt if employers were held accountable. 

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1 hour ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

We have a local farm that I am quite positive has a number of illegal immigrants working on it.  I’ve been there with the ambulance and when we show up with red lights flashing, people start running into the woods. Instead of arresting them, I’d rather see the owners and managers of the farm arrested.  I’ve been inside the “housing” they provide and it’s incredibly overcrowded—14 or 15 people in a single wide, one bathroom trailer. I’m sure they aren’t paying legal wages either. Of course they aren’t offering benefits either, but since these are illegal immigrants none of the workers are going to complain.

My personal opinion is to arrest the hiring managers and anyone else facilitating the hiring or poor conditions.  Then find a way to offer a path to legal immigration or citizenship, pending a background check. But I don’t run the world.

I don’t know...if employers hang for hiring illegal immigrants it makes it that much more difficult for non-citizens to gain any employment. Same with housing - if landlords could get jailed or whatever for housing an illegal immigrant, it makes them more wary of renting to non-citizens, which makes it harder for illegal immigrants to integrate into society productively. So...I don’t know.

But I do know some employers do exploit non-citizens because they have no recourse. So yes, that is a problem too. 

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This is so upsetting. 😔

I just drove through Canton,  ms on Tuesday.

I wish there was more I can do instead of just donating money.

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3 hours ago, Quill said:

That’s awful.

i just heard on the radio that they are moving a bunch of parentless immigrant children to Virginia because there is no room for them in the south. (I think they were originally being held in Mississippi or Alabama.) It was something like 440 children detained without or separate from their parents. That troubles me. 

I don’t even understand how something this barbaric is allowed to happen anywhere.  If another country had done this to US parents and kids, we’d be at war.  

I know, I know... I’m zipping it. 🤐 

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1 hour ago, desertflower said:

This is so upsetting. 😔

I just drove through Canton,  ms on Tuesday.

I wish there was more I can do instead of just donating money.

We should meet up if you come through central MS again. 

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I feel really ignorant. Someone on FB was saying to me that there's no way all the people ICE rounded up are illegally here and they are racial profiling. So now I'm questioning, how often/what percentage of people taken into custody of ICE are here legally and there's a misunderstanding? I'm sure some people have come here legally and overstayed their visas, but in any case, I'm curious what is the norm. 

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4 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I feel really ignorant. Someone on FB was saying to me that there's no way all the people ICE rounded up are illegally here and they are racial profiling. So now I'm questioning, how often/what percentage of people taken into custody of ICE are here legally and there's a misunderstanding? I'm sure some people have come here legally and overstayed their visas, but in any case, I'm curious what is the norm. 

If you look it up you'll find out just how often that happens. U.S. citizens have been held, immigrants here legally have been held. They weren't given the opportunity to prove who they are. We have become a show me your papers country, and even then they won't look at your papers when you can prove you have a right to be here. 

I'm just sick about it. This isn't political. It's about being humane. 

Edited by Lady Florida.
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1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

If you look it up you'll find out just how often that happens. U.S. citizens have been held, immigrants here legally have been held. They weren't given the opportunity to prove who they are. We have become a show me your papers country, and even then they won't look at your papers when you can prove you have a right to be here. 

I'm just sick about it. This isn't political. It's about being humane. 

Thank you. I'll try to read more up on it. 

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8 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I feel really ignorant. Someone on FB was saying to me that there's no way all the people ICE rounded up are illegally here and they are racial profiling. So now I'm questioning, how often/what percentage of people taken into custody of ICE are here legally and there's a misunderstanding? I'm sure some people have come here legally and overstayed their visas, but in any case, I'm curious what is the norm. 

 

It happens: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-united-states-citizen-has-been-detained-by-immigration-authorities-for-nearly-a-month/

I think we can find a better way than separating families and jailing children.

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3 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

 

 

I think we can find a better way than separating families and jailing children.

This. I don't think anyone (well most people) will deny that illegal immigration is a problem. It's how we handle it that shows who we are as a society. 

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I do not know the details of this raid, but one near where I grew up a couple years ago uncovered a lot of abuses. I mean, the workers were being abused. When these "employers" do this, they own these people, and they often do not treat them well. People die. They get injured. When they can no longer work, they get tossed out. They are sweat houses and it is not okay. I think it is good that ICE is dealing with this. 

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3 hours ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

We have a local farm that I am quite positive has a number of illegal immigrants working on it.  I’ve been there with the ambulance and when we show up with red lights flashing, people start running into the woods. Instead of arresting them, I’d rather see the owners and managers of the farm arrested.  I’ve been inside the “housing” they provide and it’s incredibly overcrowded—14 or 15 people in a single wide, one bathroom trailer. I’m sure they aren’t paying legal wages either. Of course they aren’t offering benefits either, but since these are illegal immigrants none of the workers are going to complain.

My personal opinion is to arrest the hiring managers and anyone else facilitating the hiring or poor conditions.  Then find a way to offer a path to legal immigration or citizenship, pending a background check. But I don’t run the world.

It’s a good plan, but unfortunately not what many politicians would support. Some of those most outspoken against illegal immigration also know they are very much needed by some of their constituents. Steve King and many of his dairy farm constituents in Iowa is a prime example.

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1 hour ago, Janeway said:

I do not know the details of this raid, but one near where I grew up a couple years ago uncovered a lot of abuses. I mean, the workers were being abused. When these "employers" do this, they own these people, and they often do not treat them well. People die. They get injured. When they can no longer work, they get tossed out. They are sweat houses and it is not okay. I think it is good that ICE is dealing with this. 

The working conditions need addressed, but the issue I have is this sense that it's a bully approach where ICE just scoops people up and there's probably a language barrier and lack of opportunity for people to get their papers to the right people so it takes forever to get things sorted. Then the kids being left with strangers or put in "cages." Ugh. 

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I can't help but thinking of the other thread of the small business owner noting the extreme difficulty in finding workers in her area.

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I agree the employers need to be charged.  Hopefully they will be.

We also need to stop people bringing folks here under false pretenses that they are going to have a good life here despite not being legal immigrants.

As for the separated children, believe it or not, many kids come without their parents - whether as hired "children" of other migrants (who hope to be allowed to stay because of the child), or actually traveling without a parent/guardian.  The outlook for those children is extremely bad if they aren't rescued by the authorities.  It is still not great if they are rescued, because the whole thing is a terrible situation for a child to be placed in to begin with.

BTW it is extremely rare for a US citizen to be deported.  I know of it allegedly happening twice, and both times the individual had previously reported being a Mexican national.  Deportation of families established in the US is a long process when it happens at all.  Meanwhile they are generally allowed to continue life as before, just with the knowledge that the US government knows they are not supposed to be here.  Family members who haven't committed crimes (other than being here illegally) are usually not deported at all.

The news is full of horror stories, but they are rare.  That's why they are news.

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25 minutes ago, Janeway said:

I do not know the details of this raid, but one near where I grew up a couple years ago uncovered a lot of abuses. I mean, the workers were being abused. When these "employers" do this, they own these people, and they often do not treat them well. People die. They get injured. When they can no longer work, they get tossed out. They are sweat houses and it is not okay. I think it is good that ICE is dealing with this. 

 

I agree that the employer act in criminal ways, but ripping victims families apart isn’t the solution to that.  

I also think that the horrific conditions that many undocumented workers are exposed to is evidence that there is true humanitarian need that sends people across the border in the first place.  It is hard for me to believe that someone who is willing to risk the desert, and risk ICE tearing their family apart, to get a job like that is fleeing something even worse.  And if that’s true, then treating them like criminals for fleeing whatever that was makes no more sense to me than arresting someone who runs from a rapist for jaywalking because they didn’t stop running when crossing the street.

We do need solutions at the border and at places of employment but this kind of thing is not the solution.

 

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20 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

I agree that the employer act in criminal ways, but ripping victims families apart isn’t the solution to that.  

I also think that the horrific conditions that many undocumented workers are exposed to is evidence that there is true humanitarian need that sends people across the border in the first place.  It is hard for me to believe that someone who is willing to risk the desert, and risk ICE tearing their family apart, to get a job like that is fleeing something even worse.  And if that’s true, then treating them like criminals for fleeing whatever that was makes no more sense to me than arresting someone who runs from a rapist for jaywalking because they didn’t stop running when crossing the street.

We do need solutions at the border and at places of employment but this kind of thing is not the solution.

 

I suspect they don't know what they are getting in to. I suspect it is much like human trafficking. They come for grand promises and then face that and cannot go back. They have been threatened or just do not have the means or otherwise.

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As for the kids, I think they are often born here after the parents travel here. I know from speaking to some of my ESL students, there was a mix. Like a kid might say I just moved here from XYZ country. Another may say I’ve lived here my whole life. 

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10 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

What a strange (and sad) story! So he was born in Greece by Iraqi parents, but considered an Iraqi citizen because of the way they do citizenship. 

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5 hours ago, Quill said:

That’s awful.

i just heard on the radio that they are moving a bunch of parentless immigrant children to Virginia because there is no room for them in the south. (I think they were originally being held in Mississippi or Alabama.) It was something like 440 children detained without or separate from their parents. That troubles me. 

 

I think this is a case where the words we use to describe what is going on are very important.

It's important to remember that these children aren't parentless. They have parents and the government systems have intentionally separated them from their parents without making adequate provisions for their care or for their return to their families. We should do everything we can to reunify families or to get the children to parent-approved guardians, if that is their preference. Many of the children that have parents involved in yesterday's raids are likely US citizens. There is no reason at all that we should be using words like "detained" to describe them.

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3 hours ago, Quill said:

I don’t know...if employers hang for hiring illegal immigrants it makes it that much more difficult for non-citizens to gain any employment. Same with housing - if landlords could get jailed or whatever for housing an illegal immigrant, it makes them more wary of renting to non-citizens, which makes it harder for illegal immigrants to integrate into society productively. So...I don’t know.

But I do know some employers do exploit non-citizens because they have no recourse. So yes, that is a problem too. 

Do you have any evidence to back this up?

 

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All those kids. Did you see that the schools couldn't release the kids to go home? They had to hold them until a parent or guardian could claim them. 

It's the single largest such raid in American history.

I have many opinions. None of them good.

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1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

I feel really ignorant. Someone on FB was saying to me that there's no way all the people ICE rounded up are illegally here and they are racial profiling. So now I'm questioning, how often/what percentage of people taken into custody of ICE are here legally and there's a misunderstanding? I'm sure some people have come here legally and overstayed their visas, but in any case, I'm curious what is the norm. 

I think that's a great question. I wonder if it's possible to find out the answer?

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1 hour ago, Janeway said:

I do not know the details of this raid, but one near where I grew up a couple years ago uncovered a lot of abuses. I mean, the workers were being abused. When these "employers" do this, they own these people, and they often do not treat them well. People die. They get injured. When they can no longer work, they get tossed out. They are sweat houses and it is not okay. I think it is good that ICE is dealing with this. 

They would only be "dealing with this" if they actually prosecute the employers for the abuses. Otherwise, they are just making a way for more workers to come and take their place.

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43 minutes ago, Janeway said:

I suspect they don't know what they are getting in to. I suspect it is much like human trafficking. They come for grand promises and then face that and cannot go back. They have been threatened or just do not have the means or otherwise.

 

It often IS human trafficking. Big farms pay traffickers to advertise in rural communities in Mexico and other countries about jobs, etc. in the U.S. They make it sound like they'll be getting great jobs, that they will be welcome, etc. All they have to do is pay the trafficker and he'll get them here. Families will raise enough for their husband or one of their sons to go, with others trying to join them later. And then they go North with the trafficker, under horrendous conditions, for their dream of escaping or helping their families.  

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I have not been able to find out anything about the local area (if they are offering shelter, food, etc. to affected children/families). I have left messages. 

Human trafficking is scary here too as we have a junction with I-55 and I-20 that people abuse. 

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20 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Do you have any evidence to back this up?

 

Do you mean my last line? 

I am in close contact with someone who originally arrived here illegally. He had a job but was used abusively by the employer because he had no recourse. So no, not evidence really, but anecdote. 

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Just got off the phone with city hall in one town. They said all the children there have been reunited with their families and some returned to school today. At this point they aren’t doing a donation drive but things could change. 

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10 minutes ago, Quill said:

Do you mean my last line? 

I am in close contact with someone who originally arrived here illegally. He had a job but was used abusively by the employer because he had no recourse. So no, not evidence really, but anecdote.

It is pretty widespread, unfortunately.  Not just Latinos either.  My friend from China told of slave labor sweatshops full of Chinese people.  Chinese people generally aren't allowed to leave China, and once they do leave illegally, going back is unthinkable.  They seek asylum and eventually citizenship, but for the years that this is in process, they can't leave their "employer."  Sad thing is that the "employers" are often immigrants themselves, so they know all too well how desperate they are.

I also worked for an immigrant who did this on a lesser scale.  I participated in a lawsuit against him.  They settled and the guy is still in business - though I assume he learned his lesson.

It doesn't help that one of the "arguments for" lax immigration policies is that "the immigrants do jobs no American wants to do."  In other words slave labor is a justification for loose borders.

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1 minute ago, SKL said:

It doesn't help that one of the "arguments for" lax immigration policies is that "the immigrants do jobs no American wants to do."  In other words slave labor is a justification for loose borders.

I personally do not equate slave labor with less desirable jobs. I usually take the quoted to mean just that, less desirable jobs. Maybe min. wage or lacking benefits but I didn’t think about the conditions/circumstances described in this thread so much until now. 

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10 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I personally do not equate slave labor with less desirable jobs. I usually take the quoted to mean just that, less desirable jobs. Maybe min. wage or lacking benefits but I didn’t think about the conditions/circumstances described in this thread so much until now. 

I don’t think SKL is saying less desirable jobs are automatically slave labor jobs, but that employee abuse, aka, slave labor, happens disporportionately often in less desirable jobs with employees who have few options. 

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7 hours ago, Quill said:

That’s awful.

i just heard on the radio that they are moving a bunch of parentless immigrant children to Virginia because there is no room for them in the south. (I think they were originally being held in Mississippi or Alabama.) It was something like 440 children detained without or separate from their parents. That troubles me. 

 

I find it deeply concerning that we are deliberately orphaning kids to place them in foster/adoptive homes. That will further strain state systems that we need for ABUSED kids. These kids were being cared and paid for by parental wages previously. How is that a net gain for the country?

Edited by Sneezyone
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1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

 

I find it deeply concerning if we are deliberately orphaning kids to place them in forster adoptive homes where that will further strain state systems when they were being cared and paid for by parental wages previously. How is that a net gain for the country?

Agreed. It is totally messed up. I am refraining from saying all I would like to say othe subject. 

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There is nothing in this article stating that there were families. This seems to be nothing more than a sweat house, which is not ok.

 

And this post thread is crossing over in to political because even if there were children, these are still people breaking the law. I think human trafficking victims should be helped, but the US has become a target for this kind of thing. Okay, so I did find an article that talked about a couple children, so maybe there were more, but still..this is illegal. They were breaking the law. And I do not think anyone should concern themselves with whether or not criminal parents should be separated from their children. They should be concerned about the fact that the parents were breaking the law and what kind of influence those people are on their children. And why did they come here? Many passed through several countries to get here because the US has become a welfare state. Most countries do not allow this. I do not think any country really allows what the US puts up with and I blame the media for making out criminals are victims and ignoring what those who follow the law go through.

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10 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

I find it deeply concerning that we are deliberately orphaning kids to place them in foster/adoptive homes. That will further strain state systems that we need for ABUSED kids. These kids were being cared and paid for by parental wages previously. How is that a net gain for the country?

It’s not a net gain. Additionally, removing children from their parents without intending to reunite them (as evidenced by the lack of documentation and tracking done by authorities) and then placing them up for adoption is child trafficking, IMO. 

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1 hour ago, Janeway said:

There is nothing in this article stating that there were families. This seems to be nothing more than a sweat house, which is not ok.

 

And this post thread is crossing over in to political because even if there were children, these are still people breaking the law. I think human trafficking victims should be helped, but the US has become a target for this kind of thing. Okay, so I did find an article that talked about a couple children, so maybe there were more, but still..this is illegal. They were breaking the law. And I do not think anyone should concern themselves with whether or not criminal parents should be separated from their children. They should be concerned about the fact that the parents were breaking the law and what kind of influence those people are on their children. And why did they come here? Many passed through several countries to get here because the US has become a welfare state. Most countries do not allow this. I do not think any country really allows what the US puts up with and I blame the media for making out criminals are victims and ignoring what those who follow the law go through.

Which article? My main post? Or another? Because the reason I keep talking about families is all over my facebook feed we see pictures of children sitting outside of their school where they are left wondering when they will see their parents again. And I don't think they can go home without an authorized person. I'm not sure how they left the school or if some were put on the bus before info on their parents was known? I did post an update that at least near me, the families have been reunited. 

Yes, it's illegal. No, I'm not saying we should necessarily tolerate it, but putting kids in overcrowded foster care situations or a cage type facility where they may or may not be reunited with their loved ones? I think we're talking about a "two wrongs don't make a right' scenario. Now as far as victims... I think we are talking mainly about the children that got caught up in the middle of it and the people detained/captured that are in fact US citizens. 

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1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

 

I find it deeply concerning that we are deliberately orphaning kids to place them in foster/adoptive homes. That will further strain state systems that we need for ABUSED kids. These kids were being cared and paid for by parental wages previously. How is that a net gain for the country?

I'd like to think yes, but I have no idea what percentage of these kids could also land in the abused category. At any rate, I tend to agree that the kids are being ripped apart from their parents because Mom and Dad made bad decisions (or rather, illegal ones. Maybe in their case it seemed the lesser of two evils. Staying put was possibly not getting the food on the table or whatever. I don't know their specifics). 

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