what's missing in my 5th grader's schedule?

[caedmyn]

I'm adding up the time I think it will take my 5th grader to complete his schoolwork this year, and coming up with about 90 minutes + 20-30 minutes of family work.  He'll listen to audiobooks on his own for roughly another 30-60 minutes a day (he's dyslexic).  Is that enough time?  I seem to have all the subjects covered...should I add more work just to give him more school time?  We'll do science and history as a family (half a year with history then the other half for science).  Vocabulary will also be a family subject.  Oh, and I think he's skipping spelling this year as he's done Barton 1-8, then reviewed it all last year, and he won't apply any of it, so I'm kind of over spelling for the moment.  Maybe in a year or two he'll find some internal motivation for spelling.  I don't plan to start typing with him for another year as he'll be starting vision therapy next month and that will likely take at least the entire school year.

His individual subjects are:
Bible audiobook
Seterra
Read 10 pages
Fix-It Grammar
IEW Writing (finish up SWI-A and start All Things Fun & Fascinating)
Teaching Textbooks 5
 

[Slache]

Laundry!

IEW and TT should both be 30-60 minutes. I always do school for a week or two before deciding if I should add or cut. Possibly a foreign language and more audiobooks. I understand that maybe he should only be reading 10 pages but his literature intake doesn't need to be that limited if you don't want it to be. 

[Miss Tick]

I don't know what seterra is, but I don't see history our science called out.

My 5th grader spends about an hour on English topics, math, and science or history depending on the day.

She has other things she does but I don't feel are across-the-board required for 5th grade in general - foreign language, piano, art, book club reading, that fill in the remainder of her school time. 

[PeterPan]

Thinking he could probably handle some science/history beyond that 20-30 minutes with his siblings. Do you do group history/science and then assign individual tasks? 

What are your goals for the year? You could add almost anything to this (because it's low), but it's more what your goals are. Life skills and habits of routine are pretty big with my similarly aged ds right now. 

[Sherry in OH]

I would expect a 5th grader to be averaging 5 hours of school per day:

• Math - 45-60 minutes per day (If he is averaging less than 30 minutes per day I would suspect that he needs a higher level in his math program)
• Language arts - 45-60 minutes per day (I suspect that Fix-It-Grammar plus IEW will ramp up to average this)
• Literature - 60 minutes per day minimum.  This includes silent reading, read aloud, and audiobooks.   (If all he is doing for religion is listening to an audio-Bible, I would include it as part of literature, otherwise I'd consider it an elective)
• History/Science - 30 minutes each.  If only doing one per semester, I would expect to add in videos, hands-on activities, extra readings, and field trips to average 45-60 minutes per day.  If Seterra is geography games, include the time he spends on that as part of history/social sciences.  You could rotate in other learning games (Presidents versus Aliens, as an example) for variety.
• Electives - art, music, health, P.E., logic, religious studies, and/or self-study topics/hobbies of student's interest PLUS vision therapy exercises - 60 minutes per day minimum (You could select electives on a monthly, quarterly, or semester basis; weekly rotation; or loop)
• Breaks - as needed

 

[wendyroo]

Over the years I have found that my kids' school hours break into five equalish pieces: Math (including logic and programming as they get older), Phonics/Literature, Language Arts, History/Science, and "Extras" - foreign language, art, music, typing.

So next year my first grader will spend 15-20ish minutes on each of those pieces, for a total of 1.5ish hours of formal school each day.

My third grader will spend 40ish minutes on each piece for a total of 3.5 hours.

And my fifth grader will spend 45-60 minutes on each piece for a total of 4.5ish hours:
Math ~45 minutes, plus ~15 minutes of either logic or programming
Literature ~45 minutes
Writing ~30 minutes, plus ~20 minutes of some combination of spelling, grammar, vocabulary and poetry memorization
History + Geography ~45 minutes OR Science ~45 minutes depending on which we are studying at that time
Art ~60 minutes once a week OR on the other days Spanish ~20, Piano ~20, Typing ~10

Plus all the kids do a lot of free reading, listen to audiobooks in the car, play logic games, have extracurriculars, watch BrainPop videos, etc...so lots of informal learning on top of their more formal school hours.

Wendy
 

[Farrar]

I wouldn't add school just to add school.

It does seem like art, nature, etc. are slightly lacking, but I assume that your family history and science is the enriching element.

If I were to add anything, I'd add something really open ended and kid-driven. Something like coding or some sort of open art time or a kid-created project time. Or, I'd add time for things like documentary watching time or something. Or, I'd add something like more chores and independent stuff.

But I don't think you need to add anything per se.

[8filltheheart]

I agree that the amt of time that needs to be spent on each subject should be approach 45-60 mins for a 5th grader.

But, the big void I see is anything addressing his dyslexia.   I would not approach it as just a spelling issue nor would I expect you to see him necessarily apply it to his writing. Nor would I drop spelling just b/c you aren't seeing any improvement (and it probably is not related to motivation.)  It takes my kids repeating words yr after yr after yr until finally some words stick.  My dyslexics have done spelling all the way to high school graduation.  My oldest could write a paper in high school and spell with multiple different ways on a single page (whith, withe, whithe, wyth).  It wasn't motivation that was the problem.  He was typically focused on content and expecting correct spelling and content simultaneously was expecting too much.  We learned that for him reading his papers backward (from end to beginning) made him focus on what he had actually written vs reading what he thought he had written.  Looking at each word individually that way did help him start to identify at least some of his spelling errors (though definitely a far cry from all of them.  He still stinks at spelling.  All of my dyslexics do.)

I would also want to have him reading aloud to me, working on reading comprehension and speed.

[Coco_Clark]

Agreeing with others that while I don't see anything missing, per se, I'm surprised he can get done in that time.

I had two 5th graders last year.  My struggling daughter also uses TT, but our rule was that she had to spend at least 30 min.  Sometimes, especially in the early review lessons, this meant 2 in a day. Then they both spent at least an hour on language arts; a writing lesson or project daily and alternating grammar and spelling.  That's an hour and a half right there.

I'd also agree that at this age 20-30 min a day may not be enough history and science, and he could possibly go above and beyond his siblings.

That being said I wouldn't add things just to add them.  Especially if he's keeping himself healthily occupied during his free time and learning at a level you are happy with, awesome.  2 hour school days it is!

If he's bored, or not using his time wisely things you could add in are: a second math program (TT can be light), a foreign language, art, music appreciation, an instrument, a skill or craft like baking, computer programming, logic, geography and cultures, government (an election is coming up and kids this age pay attention), a physical exersize like running or archery, or really any interest.

[hollyhock2]

TT might take longer than you think, at least 30 minutes. I agree with the PP who said to start school and see how long things actually take before you add anything. It all looks good to me and I wouldn't add anything just to spend more time. A lot of people go by the grade = number of hours spent, but my kids have always taken less time than that.

[caedmyn]

On 8/7/2019 at 10:21 AM, PeterPan said:

Thinking he could probably handle some science/history beyond that 20-30 minutes with his siblings. Do you do group history/science and then assign individual tasks? 

What are your goals for the year? You could add almost anything to this (because it's low), but it's more what your goals are. Life skills and habits of routine are pretty big with my similarly aged ds right now. 

My goals?  Surviving the year mostly, between two kids in OT, one in speech, another who probably will need speech, and then doing vision therapy which will mean a 6 hr round trip drive every couple weeks...

I just group history/science except for adding stuff for DD13.  He has lots of history audiobooks on his booklist.  I don't really know what else I could add for science other than maybe Youtube or other videos. 

[caedmyn]

He's taking piano lessons also and will probably be taking jiu jitsu for at least part of the school year.  And he does 4-H.  Last year he did archery and Lego robotics and I can see him doing the same projects again this year.

[caedmyn]

On 8/7/2019 at 12:31 PM, 8FillTheHeart said:

I agree that the amt of time that needs to be spent on each subject should be approach 45-60 mins for a 5th grader.

But, the big void I see is anything addressing his dyslexia.   I would not approach it as just a spelling issue nor would I expect you to see him necessarily apply it to his writing. Nor would I drop spelling just b/c you aren't seeing any improvement (and it probably is not related to motivation.)  It takes my kids repeating words yr after yr after yr until finally some words stick.  My dyslexics have done spelling all the way to high school graduation.  My oldest could write a paper in high school and spell with multiple different ways on a single page (whith, withe, whithe, wyth).  It wasn't motivation that was the problem.  He was typically focused on content and expecting correct spelling and content simultaneously was expecting too much.  We learned that for him reading his papers backward (from end to beginning) made him focus on what he had actually written vs reading what he thought he had written.  Looking at each word individually that way did help him start to identify at least some of his spelling errors (though definitely a far cry from all of them.  He still stinks at spelling.  All of my dyslexics do.)

I would also want to have him reading aloud to me, working on reading comprehension and speed.

Reading is pretty fatiguing for him in spite of remediation due to his visual issues. 

I don't expect him to apply spelling to his writing but he won't exert any effort to try to remember how to spell words properly when we're doing spelling review or when I randomly ask him to figure out how to spell a word when editing his writing.  This seems like a motivation thing.  Also, we've gone through sight words for spelling twice and he hardly remembers how to spell any of them.  I know they're different kids but his younger brother is also dyslexic and appears to have some working memory issues, but when he gets a sight word down, it sticks.  DS10's don't stick for more than a few weeks.

I guess I could have him do Megawords for spelling this year.

[Sherry in OH]

4 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

He's taking piano lessons also and will probably be taking jiu jitsu for at least part of the school year.  And he does 4-H.  Last year he did archery and Lego robotics and I can see him doing the same projects again this year.

 

All of these can be considered electives and counted as part of his school day.  Piano lesson and practice time are music, jiu jitsu and archery are P.E., etc.   

8 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

My goals?  Surviving the year mostly, between two kids in OT, one in speech, another who probably will need speech, and then doing vision therapy which will mean a 6 hr round trip drive every couple weeks...

I just group history/science except for adding stuff for DD13.  He has lots of history audiobooks on his booklist.  I don't really know what else I could add for science other than maybe Youtube or other videos. 

 

He may be able to some of the extras you are assigning your DD.  Otherwise, what science do you intend to cover this year?   Chemistry - The Periodic Videos are fun.   Physics - see if your library has The Way Things Work DVDs (they are too $$$ for home purchase). My sons loved Eureka Physics at that age. Klutz LEGO Crazy Contraptions tie into physics as well.  Biology - bird watching, nature journal, growing a garden ... He's in 4-H, encourage him to do a science-themed project.  If he reads well enought to follow written directions, buy some science kits.  (Alka-Seltzer and film canisters can occupy a boy for quite a while.)