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Runningmom80

504 tips? - Update.

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Standard deviation with stanines is 3, right? You can google for that test. So our ps was willing to consider discrepancy (IQ vs achievement) and you might be there. But no, the scores won't get you there. Almost guaranteed the school will want numbers, because that's how it rolls. They'll usually want 1.5+ SD of discrepancy.

And the plus side is even the decoding scores were good!! If she's making good progress on spelling now, then she may actually get pretty functional. There are dyslexics who get through school, read, crank it out, etc. It's wicked hard, but they get it done. And you're doing the right things, getting her the intervention, getting her the tech.

The other things they watch dyslexia are reading comprehension (those scores were AWESOME), social skills, and emotional regulation. Yeah, math facts happen, lol. I'm a super fan of Ronit Bird, so you might whiz her through some of that right now, this summer. The ebooks are stupid cheap and they might make it click, get 'em nailed. She has Dots for basic add/subtr and then a multiplication book that is brilliant. If she nails those, do the fractions ebook. You could probably get her through Dots in short order, maybe 1-2 days. Then play her +/- turnovers game from her free games ebook. After you play that +/- turnovers a bit, start writing the equations, making them more complex, boom. The multiplication will take her longer to get through. The C-rods book is good but it's for multi-digit, and you were saying facts.

 

Edited by PeterPan
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In our experience, a disability diagnosis alone won't qualify a child for services or a 504. A 504 will only be given if the disability interferes with her ability to show adequate progress in learning the curriculum. Adequate progress is defined as basically not failing really badly- living up to your own potential isn't really a priority. The system is designed to be reactive instead of proactive. 

You might have better luck getting a 504 that doesn't ask for services but asks for things like extra time for tests. 

 

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4 hours ago, Pen said:

Trouble learning math facts often goes with dyslexia and seems to show up on the scores. If you are going after help from the school that might be another area to try to get some help.  

One can see a pattern in the scores that looks like dyslexia, but it looks like she’s mostly functioning above average with her weak areas not drastically below. 

I take it that irl she seems much more impaired?

On the paper test it doesn’t look like she actually  would need audiobooks to be able to keep up with the class. 

 

She has to work very hard to be not drastically below in the weak areas. Also, it's one of those things where it seems like it's not horrible now, but we can see down the road where more writing is expected that the wheels may fall off. 

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4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Standard deviation with stanines is 3, right? You can google for that test. So our ps was willing to consider discrepancy (IQ vs achievement) and you might be there. But no, the scores won't get you there. Almost guaranteed the school will want numbers, because that's how it rolls. They'll usually want 1.5+ SD of discrepancy.

And the plus side is even the decoding scores were good!! If she's making good progress on spelling now, then she may actually get pretty functional. There are dyslexics who get through school, read, crank it out, etc. It's wicked hard, but they get it done. And you're doing the right things, getting her the intervention, getting her the tech.

The other things they watch dyslexia are reading comprehension (those scores were AWESOME), social skills, and emotional regulation. Yeah, math facts happen, lol. I'm a super fan of Ronit Bird, so you might whiz her through some of that right now, this summer. The ebooks are stupid cheap and they might make it click, get 'em nailed. She has Dots for basic add/subtr and then a multiplication book that is brilliant. If she nails those, do the fractions ebook. You could probably get her through Dots in short order, maybe 1-2 days. Then play her +/- turnovers game from her free games ebook. After you play that +/- turnovers a bit, start writing the equations, making them more complex, boom. The multiplication will take her longer to get through. The C-rods book is good but it's for multi-digit, and you were saying facts.

 

 

I'm going to do this, thank you! I bought the multiplication book from TWTM press but never got around to it this summer. (There were things to copy and games and it just always got pushed to the back burner.) 

Plus she was tutoring and I was trying to not pile on. She only has 2 weeks until school, and she actually likes math so I think I will get those books and see how far we can get.

Her state testing came back exactly like these scores BTW, both in language arts (spelling was bad) and math facts on math portion were low. So I feel like I can trust all these tests. She's consistently low in the same areas everywhere.

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3 hours ago, Paige said:

In our experience, a disability diagnosis alone won't qualify a child for services or a 504. A 504 will only be given if the disability interferes with her ability to show adequate progress in learning the curriculum. Adequate progress is defined as basically not failing really badly- living up to your own potential isn't really a priority. The system is designed to be reactive instead of proactive. 

You might have better luck getting a 504 that doesn't ask for services but asks for things like extra time for tests. 

 

 

Yes, we would love tech and time! 

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25 minutes ago, Runningmom80 said:

 

She has to work very hard to be not drastically below in the weak areas. Also, it's one of those things where it seems like it's not horrible now, but we can see down the road where more writing is expected that the wheels may fall off. 

 

Besides spelling, what aspects of writing are a problem?

 

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3 hours ago, Paige said:

In our experience, a disability diagnosis alone won't qualify a child for services or a 504. A 504 will only be given if the disability interferes with her ability to show adequate progress in learning the curriculum. Adequate progress is defined as basically not failing really badly- living up to your own potential isn't really a priority. The system is designed to be reactive instead of proactive. 

 

 

Pretty much my experience too.

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3 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

I'm going to do this, thank you! I bought the multiplication book from TWTM press but never got around to it this summer.

Yeah I haven't tried the WTM stuff. I remember vaguely that I looked at it and thought it wasn't in the same league as Ronit Bird. My ds couldn't even tell 3 or 5 of something when we started Ronit Bird. And he was 5, turning 6, with a gifted IQ. It was crazy. And Ronit Bird knew how to break the concepts so small that even he could get it.

If you want a splurge, the long skinny playing cards Ronit Bird uses in some of her games in the free Games ebook are called "ante" playing cards. You can find them on ebay inexpensively. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313.TR4.TRC2.A0.H0.Xante+playing+cards.TRS0&_nkw=ante+playing+cards&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=ante+poker+cards  They're one of my super favorite things, such a simple splurge. Like we're always telling you to spend $600, but these are under $10. They're adorable and you'll love 'em. :biggrin:  

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Ok, so on the writing, it is my considered (inexperienced but opinionated) opinion that you might want to have her doing not only Wilson but also Story Grammar Marker. Just demand it and say that's it, doing writing and math and Wilson, boom. On the writing, I'm not saying do a ton. Wrap your brain around it and do teeny tiny, POTENT amounts. 

https://mindwingconcepts.com/pages/methodology Here's the charts with the jist. Look hard it, watch their free videos, make it all click in your mind. The narrative components become the expository components. So whatever writing she needs to do for 4th (which is going to step up), she'll be better able to do with this established in her head. Then you can just figure out the structures she needs, make the plan, bang it out. 

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18 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Besides spelling, what aspects of writing are a problem?

 

 

It’s the organizing thoughts and getting them onto the paper part. Fine motor is fine. Her writing isn’t beautiful but it’s perfectly legible. She has a hard time staying on the line so I bought her some raised line paper to help.

 

eta: that was supposed to say “isn’t”

 

I really need to start proofreading when I reply on my phone

Edited by Runningmom80

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Have you had her eyes checked? You might want to run her by a developmental optometrist, just to be sure. When her VMI is fine, letter size is the same (where dysgraphia can show up because of the stress, it breaks down), and she's drifting, that sorta screams vision. It's just good to check. Spelling is impacted by vision too.

What you would do is take her to a developmental optometrist but do a regular annual visit and ask them to *screen*. If more shows up, they can do the full. My ds is diagnosed dyslexic and FLIES through developmental vision exams. So they really are separate issues. Well that's not true, his VMI was in the dumps, but they don't treat that at our practice and said to get better OT, haha. 

So I would *think* her VMI is fine if the handwriting looks that good, which is why I was thinking screen for the rest. And does it change with duration? Like she starts well and loses it over the course of the page?

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3 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

It’s the organizing thoughts and getting them onto the paper part.

That's what you can tackle really efficiently with SGM. I'm not saying belabor it or that it's going to be this huge, drawn out process. In fact, for her SKILL (Gillam) and teaching it all upfront would probably be great. But either way. It's sort of like saying Wilson for the spelling. Just go in, make it explicit, get it to click. And the narrative components get translated right over to expository, if you look at Thememaker and those charts I linked you. So literally, if you think hard enough, you could do the whole thing with their $10 magnets, haha. 

SGM was developed by Moreau while working in a dyslexia school, so your dd is the ideal target.

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4 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

 

It’s the organizing thoughts

 

Bubbles and lines type organizing tried?

 

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Bubbles and lines type organizing tried?

 

 

No, I haven’t gotten into any of that yet. Like mind mapping?

2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Bubbles and lines type organizing tried?

 

 

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2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Have you had her eyes checked? You might want to run her by a developmental optometrist, just to be sure. When her VMI is fine, letter size is the same (where dysgraphia can show up because of the stress, it breaks down), and she's drifting, that sorta screams vision. It's just good to check. Spelling is impacted by vision too.

What you would do is take her to a developmental optometrist but do a regular annual visit and ask them to *screen*. If more shows up, they can do the full. My ds is diagnosed dyslexic and FLIES through developmental vision exams. So they really are separate issues. Well that's not true, his VMI was in the dumps, but they don't treat that at our practice and said to get better OT, haha. 

So I would *think* her VMI is fine if the handwriting looks that good, which is why I was thinking screen for the rest. And does it change with duration? Like she starts well and loses it over the course of the page?

 

So that was supposed to say “isn’t beautiful.”

her handwriting is fine but not anything amazing.

she did do VT!

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9 minutes ago, Runningmom80 said:

 

No, I haven’t gotten into any of that yet. Like mind mapping?

 

 

Probably.

 

This link seems related to older kids as an example topic related to college but little kids can use it. I think it’s much more dysgraphia/ dyslexia friendly than etc outlines.  I also find the Bravewriter/Natalie Goldberg/Peter Elbow approach tends to be more dysgraphia/dyslexia friendly.

https://education.seattlepi.com/use-bubble-map-write-essay-2971.html

 

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1 hour ago, Runningmom80 said:

she did do VT!

Just to be thorough here, did they update the testing at the end? How is her visual processing? VT starts with the physical problems but then needs to apply them to visual processing. So if she's reading slowly, her handwriting is hard, etc., I'd be checking that. Visual memory will tank spelling, so how is her visual memory now?

If all the scores there are good, that's really good!!

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19 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Just to be thorough here, did they update the testing at the end? How is her visual processing? VT starts with the physical problems but then needs to apply them to visual processing. So if she's reading slowly, her handwriting is hard, etc., I'd be checking that. Visual memory will tank spelling, so how is her visual memory now?

If all the scores there are good, that's really good!!

 

Yes, she was "dismissed"

I'm not opposed to rechecking, her VMI was low normal

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1 hour ago, Runningmom80 said:

 

Yes, she was "dismissed"

I'm not opposed to rechecking, her VMI was low normal

Dysgraphia is the one thing that continually befuddles me. We'll have people with longstanding dysgraphia in their kids, like just flat out complete inability to write, and they do VT (which sometimes hits VMI with some some docs) and boom the kid can write. And look at my ds, barely functional for writing, and his VMI was totally in the tank. And the last psych we used just put it that ds clearly had difficulty with writing. I just think the whole process or etiology or what they're saying is really vague.

So I don't know, my rampage on VMI got paused but it's about to pick back up. I think there's at least something there. Maybe not everything, but something. It's at least really suspicious. And really, it seems like just effort to draw daily can make headway. There is marvelous stuff (like the snazzy RFWP workbooks, which you could so totally weave into your demanded daily Wilson, hahaha), but even just 10 minutes of daily drawing seems to make a difference for my ds. Anything where they see it, think it in their minds, and channel that from their minds to motor planning. 

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I wanted to update this, as we have some promising developments and it may encourage anyone else who is trying to make PS work.

 

I was able to email DD's teacher the week before school, and she even called me! She was fine with whatever informal accommodations we wanted to put in place while we work on the 504. 

The school actually followed up like they said they would! They talked to DD's new teacher and she agreed that DD's writing is not indicative of what she knows. They are starting in class intervention, which is at least something. We are going to meet soon do discuss the 504.

 

I wanted to thank everyone for the help! 

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