Jump to content

Menu

Recommended Posts

Recap on DD 9 - diagnosed with dysgraphia last spring, she's also dyslexic but just not on paper. 🙂 Had two meetings with the school, the first was mediocre the second was contentious. We were denied both an IEP and a 504. Started tutoring this summer, twice a week without missing any! (One hour sessions) She started on book 2 of Wilson and I think she's nearing the middle of book 3 now. Her spelling and phonetic awareness have improved somewhat. For what it's worth her tutor is a 3rd grade teacher from a neighboring district who is a reading specialist and Wilson certified, she has been great. (She doesn't like homeschooling but I'm not going to dwell on that. LOL). At the end of the school year I had pretty much decided to bring her and her brother back home to homeschool, but she *really* wants to go.  She is very social and likes to be out of the house. (There's more I can say about the decision that has to do with me but it's probably not relevant and I don't want to ramble on and on.)

We have one last week of tutoring coming up and it's VERY clear that writing is going to be the most difficult. The tutor talked with me after our last session and said that we absolutely need a 504 for tech. She's going to write something up for us to take to school. 

So that means I have to see these people who really p*ssed me off again. I'm already working on my deep breathing and visualization exercises 🤣 but does anyone have any tips on successfully advocating for a 504? I might even try to get the IEP again if the tutor's letter is convincing, but I'm not holding my breath on that. I'm sure they want to see her to really struggle first. 😡 I'd like to try to avoid hiring an advocate if possible, as we have already blown through thousands for this in the past 6 months. Obviously if it comes down to that we will. Or maybe we'll all just suck it up and go elsewhere. 

 

Hope everyone is having a great summer!

 

Edited by Runningmom80
Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't need a 504. You need an IEP and the two ways to get it are to pay for private evals and go back with your new evidence (being nice, the nice way) OR file a dispute of the results of their evals, compel them to pay for the IEE (independent 3rd party evaluation) and get the IEP.

Your tutor letter could be evidence to convene the IEP team, sure. They could hear it, run some fresh numbers, get it done. Are you wanting accommodations or intervention?

I think the challenge is that you don't yet realize the full extent of what she needs. Have they run the Test of Narrative Language or something on her to identify further langauge deficits? When the "writing is hard" it isn't happening in a vacuum. There are narrative deficits, OT problems, EF issues, something, kwim? They call it an SLD, but there will be stuff they can identify and work on. Or is she functional and able to organize and get it out calmly with just an accommodation like a scribe or tech? Is she needing an accommodation or intervention?

So here's the thing. Between the ages of 10 and 20, women become omniscient. That's all I'm saying. They know what they need, they are sainted, and they just KNOW. So I totally get her need for social (no I don't, who am I kidding???), ok I APPRECIATE that she has a need for social. But strong intervention for a school year could make a radical difference.

Did you say she LOSES her tutor come fall? She's a teacher, right? So are they going to continue or does it end? And if it ends, who is doing intervention? If it's only the ps, I don't see how she's done. She still isn't functional. To function without an IEP she needs to be reading at grade level and able to write using tech or some kind of accommodation (graphic organizers plus scribe, whatever).

Edited by PeterPan
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes the tutor is done after next week. I am going to keep going with Wilson after that. 

I would love both accommodations and intervention but it will be a while before she’s low enough to qualify for intervention at school. I’m trying for accommodations.

They don’t care about my private evals. I could have walked in there with a crayon drawing that I made and they would have treated it the same.

She reads above grade level and does have a much easier time when she can type. Her state testing said “near proficient” in writing so I’m going to try to use that too. 

Shes been tested for OT issues and APD. Both were normal.

Edited by Runningmom80
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think.....it's so hard to say. I think that if you think homeschooling is the best choice that it's okay for you to choose that, even if she would prefer to be in school. However, I have homeschooled children who are reluctant to work for me, and it was utter misery for everyone. Which then puts the student in a poor state for being ready to learn. Which then circles back to the idea that if the student avidly desires to be in school instead, she may learn better there, even if the teaching and expectations are imperfect at the school.

Which was not really your question, but it's what came to mind. Although some of the academics are not appropriate for DS15 at his school (he has to read Shakespeare this year, for example, even though his reading comprehension level is about at fifth or sixth grade -- a nightmare I am not looking forward to), we have determined that there are enough positive things about him being in school that it is still worth it.

With the letter from the certified teacher that she should have a 504 for tech, it is a good time too re-approach the school. It should not be too hard for them to provide tech for her (do they use Chromebooks?), so perhaps they will concede to that. Does she have trouble copying things from the board? If so, asking for copies of teachers' notes is also good, and you should ask the tutor to include that in her recommendations.

I remember your other thread, and the school sounds like it does not want to budge, so I think that asking for a 504 is a good step at this point.

Also, this sounds horrible, but if they need to see her fail before they will consider an IEP, let her fail. Meaning, don't prop up her work by helping her correct her homework. Have her do it, but have her turn in her own effort. This can be so, so hard to do!! But if you think of it as a temporary measure, it may be worth some short term hardship for a long term gain. I have more to say about this, if you are interested, because we did it.

I would not want to deal with that IEP team again, either. The good news is that the 504 is not the same kind of team effort. There is not a standard process, so each school can do things their own way. Have you dealt with the school principal? If s/he is easier to work with than the special education people, you might contact the principal first. Tell them that your child was denied a 504, but that you have new information and ask who you should deal with.

In our case, the 504 was written as we sat in a meeting with a special education teacher and the classroom teacher. That's it. Not the whole bunch of people needed for an IEP team. So ask your principal who you should talk to about the request, and it may not be the people you met with before.

If the principal is nice, you may even be able to say that you feel you would be at a disadvantage to work with the same people as before and would like to have someone else assigned to the case this time. I would not be snarky about this or anything, but you could just say that since you were turned down before, you would prefer fresh eyes. This may or may not work. And it could backfire if you present it as a complaint about the previous team, because the principal could go back to them and tell them what you said. So you would need to be very diplomatic.

I think @kbutton  had a book recommendation in the past about how to manage the emotional parts of getting along with the IEP team, but I can't remember what it was called. I think that anything you can do to smooth things over would be a good idea. We had a contentious IEP meeting at the beginning of our journey and then had to work with the same people afterward, and the subsequent meetings were professional and calm, so it is possible.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

I think.....it's so hard to say. I think that if you think homeschooling is the best choice that it's okay for you to choose that, even if she would prefer to be in school. However, I have homeschooled children who are reluctant to work for me, and it was utter misery for everyone. Which then puts the student in a poor state for being ready to learn. Which then circles back to the idea that if the student avidly desires to be in school instead, she may learn better there, even if the teaching and expectations are imperfect at the school.

Which was not really your question, but it's what came to mind. Although some of the academics are not appropriate for DS15 at his school (he has to read Shakespeare this year, for example, even though his reading comprehension level is about at fifth or sixth grade -- a nightmare I am not looking forward to), we have determined that there are enough positive things about him being in school that it is still worth it.

With the letter from the certified teacher that she should have a 504 for tech, it is a good time too re-approach the school. It should not be too hard for them to provide tech for her (do they use Chromebooks?), so perhaps they will concede to that. Does she have trouble copying things from the board? If so, asking for copies of teachers' notes is also good, and you should ask the tutor to include that in her recommendations.

I remember your other thread, and the school sounds like it does not want to budge, so I think that asking for a 504 is a good step at this point.

Also, this sounds horrible, but if they need to see her fail before they will consider an IEP, let her fail. Meaning, don't prop up her work by helping her correct her homework. Have her do it, but have her turn in her own effort. This can be so, so hard to do!! But if you think of it as a temporary measure, it may be worth some short term hardship for a long term gain. I have more to say about this, if you are interested, because we did it.

I would not want to deal with that IEP team again, either. The good news is that the 504 is not the same kind of team effort. There is not a standard process, so each school can do things their own way. Have you dealt with the school principal? If s/he is easier to work with than the special education people, you might contact the principal first. Tell them that your child was denied a 504, but that you have new information and ask who you should deal with.

In our case, the 504 was written as we sat in a meeting with a special education teacher and the classroom teacher. That's it. Not the whole bunch of people needed for an IEP team. So ask your principal who you should talk to about the request, and it may not be the people you met with before.

If the principal is nice, you may even be able to say that you feel you would be at a disadvantage to work with the same people as before and would like to have someone else assigned to the case this time. I would not be snarky about this or anything, but you could just say that since you were turned down before, you would prefer fresh eyes. This may or may not work. And it could backfire if you present it as a complaint about the previous team, because the principal could go back to them and tell them what you said. So you would need to be very diplomatic.

I think @kbutton  had a book recommendation in the past about how to manage the emotional parts of getting along with the IEP team, but I can't remember what it was called. I think that anything you can do to smooth things over would be a good idea. We had a contentious IEP meeting at the beginning of our journey and then had to work with the same people afterward, and the subsequent meetings were professional and calm, so it is possible.

 

Yes, to the bolded, I agree. If we felt like she was at a huge disadvantage going back, we wouldn't do it. The fact is in the grand scheme of things, she is a mild case. The writing is the lowest skill and she does feel like typing is easier so I'm cautiously optimistic that with some accommodations she will not have any huge problems. 

 

Thank you for explaining about the different teams. The principle is hard to read. Everyone was "nice," it's just they didn't want to give an inch. Hopefully the 504 will be less of a battle this time. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

She sounds a lot like my older son, and nothing is perfect at all, but typing is huge for him.  

He really has a need to go and try things for himself and succeed on his own terms. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

He needs and values encouragement, and it is hard not to come across as a nay-sayer or lacking confidence in him if I want more at school (at this point — he is a rising freshman and at long last typing is going well and seems to be meeting his needs).  

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

A possibly different view—

I’d get the tutor to write up a request for as much as possible .  Including if possible, access to talking  books systems. 

 

But then I’d ask the school why they don’t think she needs IEP/504, and maybe let her try without accommodations and without a fight at least for awhile.

it is only 4th grade so not a permanent black stain on her record if she does not do well without accommodations.

and as they progress toward middle and high school many schools increasingly go to tech for everyone so this could be one of the last years in school to get significant writing practice.  If she can barely do it, that will show, presumably.  

And nowadays she can probably email her teacher if she’s not sure about assignments 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Pen said:

A possibly different view—

I’d get the tutor to write up a request for as much as possible .  Including if possible, access to talking  books systems. 

 

But then I’d ask the school why they don’t think she needs IEP/504, and maybe let her try without accommodations and without a fight at least for awhile.

it is only 4th grade so not a permanent black stain on her record if she does not do well without accommodations.

and as they progress toward middle and high school many schools increasingly go to tech for everyone so this could be one of the last years in school to get significant writing practice.  If she can barely do it, that will show, presumably.  

And nowadays she can probably email her teacher if she’s not sure about assignments 

 

This is a good point and something to ponder. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

Can I ask what the credentials of the person who diagnosed her were?  

I don’t have a lot of experience with 504, because the students I worked with had their IEP eligibility established long before they got to me, but I can tell you that my voice as a teacher doesn’t carry much weight in the diagnosis portion of the process.

 

She saw a Speech Language Pathologist with a PhD. She works with an educational psych. He did the IQ test and something else.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:


Did the Ed Psych make the dysgraphia diagnosis?  An SLP can't diagnose that either.

To be clear, I'm not arguing about how it should be, but just how it works in the school system where I taught, and the one where my son was technically enrolled.  For us, a 504 is a three step process.  First, a disability needs to be established. Then, it needs to be established that the child can't access the grade level curriculum without some kind of accommodation.  And then finally, the accommodations are established.  A letter from a teacher/tutor is great for providing documentation for step 3, but it won't help you at all with step 1, and won't carry much weight in step 2.  If they're arguing that there either isn't a disability, or that there is a disability but it doesn't need to be accommodated, then you might need something else.  

 

An SLP can definitely diagnose a language disorder. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Ed Psych signed off on the diagnosis. 

Our problems have nothing to do with her actual diagnosis or the qualifications of who performed the tests. 

 

I could write more, but I'm getting defensive and I don't have the energy to change it into something nicer. 

Edited by Runningmom80
Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW In my area, I don’t think either an IEP or 504 would be given in the situation as you described it (not far enough behind for IEP, not disabled enough for 504–unless anxiety rises to disability level , but a letter from the tutor would probably get individual help and permission from most teachers—regarding knowing what assignments are, allowing typing, and so on.

my son had IEPs twice, but they ended when he got to a standard deviation or so from average.  But “I have trouble writing by hand, can I type” generally is fine.  Also teachers here don’t seem to take off points for wrong spelling unless it is a spelling test. Or a final revised paper for a big project. 

Edited by Pen
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

The Ed Psych signed off on the diagnosis. 

Our problems have nothing to do with her actual diagnosis or the qualifications of who performed the tests. 

 

I could right more, but I'm getting defensive and I don't have the energy to change it into something nicer. 

I think C just doesn't have the background info you've given in the past. We know what you're saying. And sometimes people on the inside of the school system miss how incredibly frustrating it is for people on the outside. I had OTs, SLPs, all kinds of people tell me if he had a diagnosis, it should just be done, boom, and it doesn't work like that. 

So you're fine, the diagnosis is legit, the struggle for getting services and accommodations for bright kids is real. I think whatever decision you make will be good and not PERMANENT. I think the dd is not omniscient and it's ok to spell out some reasons why now is not the time. 

That would be pretty nasty if they didn't at least do a 504. My dd they said they'd do a 504 for. I think they're easier to get. And this is the age when they start rolling out the accommodations. When my ds was younger, they were like oh he has a hand, no accommodations. Literally, that's what they said, lol. Never mind he actually couldn't write jack, lol. But around 4th the stupidity stopped. The expectations for the other kids went up and the discrepancies were glaringly obvious.

I think that's the discussion to have, that she needs to realize it's a system driven by FAILURE and that they're likely to let her struggle before she's so discrepant that she gets the services and accommodations she'd get at home. She's likely to have a more positive, empowered experience at home. She'll need to continue her interventions at home, which will mean double work, as she'll have their homework AND daily intervention with you. Or she could be done in 3 hours a day with you and have a pony. Seriously, offer her a horse.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Pen said:

So the info is all really good stuff. The point is, until they see that she is struggling to "access her education" the diagnosis won't matter. They won't care. You have to have evidence that they have to do something NOW. Otherwise, fail then do something. Story gave you solid advice to REMOVE ALL SUPPORTS. That's what it will take. It will be ugly. Personally, I'd promise the kid a horse. But yeah, that's the law, that's how it rolls. 

Maybe try upping it to two horses? Would she like to breed horses? Seriously, what does she want to do? It's much more important to turn out a whole person than it is to attend school.

Edited by PeterPan
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

My son did get some services in 5th and 6th grades.  

Long story but — he sounds more severe than Running Mom’s daughter.  Just to be honest, he seems more severe.

But he is also a smart kid, always does well orally, always can work in a group, etc.  

Things really go better when he has agency, he has buy-in, things are on his terms.

The truth is — writing can be a big deal, or a side issue.  It can be so, so hard, or it can be just one pesky thing.

Or it can be both at the same time. 

My older son does not have to be this “diagnosed” person who has to have a lot of special things.  

He can just be a regular kid who figures out how he will make things work for himself.  

It was getting bad in 5th and 6th grade and I am so thankful he had an amazing resource teacher then.  

But a lot is just about confidence and not letting a writing issue define who you are.  

I’m not sure that grades or being in advanced classes and “it being like you didn’t have dysgraphia” are the most important things either.

I think self-confidence, maturity, figuring things out, taking responsibility are really important.  

I do think kids can be crushed and that must be prevented.  Anxiety must be addressed.

But if kids are willing to go in and make the best of things, and so are teachers, I think that can be a really good situation, even if on paper maybe things are not the “on paper” ideal.  

We have never really had the “on paper” ideal, but it has to be what fits and not what looks good on paper.

I would say we have had very positive experiences overall and caring teachers (etc) overall, but never had “all the things.”

And my son qualified for OT which — you will always hear is so difficult to qualify for.  And he does hand-write better now but it’s not like it is good.  But — at a certain point the OTs are not able to work miracles.  But a smart kid with many strengths should still be able to leverage their strengths (which I assume is the situation — I would say it is the situation for my son).  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.handwriting-solutions.com/

This is a dysgraphia website I like.  

So my older son who is a rising freshman — he has an extensive history of speech therapy, OT, and dyslexia remediation (mostly by me).  He had an IEP through 6th grade with some combination of speech therapy, OT, or executive function supports.

He hasn’t had an IEP since the end of 6th grade and he is thriving.  He is in regular English and History, not advanced, and he will take Algebra in 9th grade (though we are in New York and I think the regular math track here is more advanced).  

He does what he needs to do for school and figures out a way to make things work.

They do also have the Google classroom stuff which has been extremely, extremely helpful for him.

The main thing is his strengths more than make up for his weaknesses.  I think that is so important for him.

It’s really not a global issue even though handwriting effects many areas.  

I do think it is important to watch for though — depression or anxiety.  I think that warrants a lot more.

But just things being not-as-good but the child feels like “I’m out there doing it” is probably better than things being the best but the child feeling like “this is a vote of no-confidence.” 

I don’t think it “should” be that way, but I never found a way around it for him.  He just wants to be a regular kid who has slightly bad handwriting, but it isn’t everything about him.  

Edited by Lecka
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

So the info is all really good stuff. The point is, until they see that she is struggling to "access her education" the diagnosis won't matter. They won't care. You have to have evidence that they have to do something NOW. Otherwise, fail then do something. Story gave you solid advice to REMOVE ALL SUPPORTS. That's what it will take. It will be ugly. Personally, I'd promise the kid a horse. But yeah, that's the law, that's how it rolls. 

Maybe try upping it to two horses? Would she like to breed horses? Seriously, what does she want to do? It's much more important to turn out a whole person than it is to attend school.

 

Whole person for this dd May be largely social. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this is a great point.  Self-confidence is huge, huge, huge for my son.  Needing not to be defined by his handwriting is huge for my son.  I think it absolutely could be social for your daughter!  And then — some parts of school are just not as important.

My son got a lot of milage from getting good feedback from teachers orally, it made up for a lot.  And he liked being around other kids, too.  

In middle school the social part has gotten more important for him, in elementary it was part of things but not the main thing, but I can see it being the main thing for sure.  

And then it’s like — academics is just one part of school or just one part of self-concept, and it’s very important but it’s not the only thing.  

I think mental health has to be the highest priority but it can be hard to know what will be the best — intervene more, intervene less, make kids feel like you have their back, make kids feel like you think they are fragile.  It is a hard balance I think.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Whole person for this dd May be largely social. 

Leave it to me to under-value social, lol. But still we all make choices. I really liked the whole person development I saw at our local dyslexia school. And they had social.

Did Running say they *had* an option like that but it was a bit of a drive and wretchedly expensive? So what about doing that for 1-2 years and getting her on track and ready to go back? It might be a safe compromise. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Do get Signed up with Bookshare, NLS, Learning Ally while you’ve got the tutor teacher to help sign forms.  

That audiobook access should help keep your dd from getting lost/behind in terms of content learning. 

If teachers can’t read her writing and won’t allow tech, that’s unlikely to be a lasting problem for her and more a frustration for them, which you can show them them the tutor letter about...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Who is a “competent authority”?

In cases of blindness, visual impairment, or physical limitations, “competent authority” is defined to include:

  • Doctors of medicine
  • Doctors of osteopathy
  • Ophthalmologists
  • Optometrists
  • Registered nurses
  • Therapists
  • Professional staff of hospitals, institutions, and public or private welfare agencies (e.g., social workers, case workers, counselors, rehabilitation teachers, and superintendents).

In the absence of any of these, certification may be made by professional librarians or by any person whose competence under specific circumstances is acceptable to the Library of Congress.

Competent authority for certifying eligibility as a result of a reading disability from organic dysfunction is defined as “doctors of medicine and doctors of osteopathy,” who may consult with colleagues in associated disciplines. Further information on qualifying for service as an individual with a reading disability may be found in the NLS Reference Guide: Talking Books and Reading Disabilities.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, PeterPan said:

I think C just doesn't have the background info you've given in the past. We know what you're saying. And sometimes people on the inside of the school system miss how incredibly frustrating it is for people on the outside. I had OTs, SLPs, all kinds of people tell me if he had a diagnosis, it should just be done, boom, and it doesn't work like that. 

So you're fine, the diagnosis is legit, the struggle for getting services and accommodations for bright kids is real. I think whatever decision you make will be good and not PERMANENT. I think the dd is not omniscient and it's ok to spell out some reasons why now is not the time. 

That would be pretty nasty if they didn't at least do a 504. My dd they said they'd do a 504 for. I think they're easier to get. And this is the age when they start rolling out the accommodations. When my ds was younger, they were like oh he has a hand, no accommodations. Literally, that's what they said, lol. Never mind he actually couldn't write jack, lol. But around 4th the stupidity stopped. The expectations for the other kids went up and the discrepancies were glaringly obvious.

I think that's the discussion to have, that she needs to realize it's a system driven by FAILURE and that they're likely to let her struggle before she's so discrepant that she gets the services and accommodations she'd get at home. She's likely to have a more positive, empowered experience at home. She'll need to continue her interventions at home, which will mean double work, as she'll have their homework AND daily intervention with you. Or she could be done in 3 hours a day with you and have a pony. Seriously, offer her a horse.

 

Yes, this is what I've heard, and from what I've read seems to be true. The tutor agrees. 

To the last paragraph, I appreciate what you are saying and I've talked to DD pretty frankly about what we are going to have to do to make this work. She really really likes her friends, and specials. She's very extroverted. (Like doesn't leave my side because she has to constantly be interacting with people. She always wants to leave the house, even if it's to take out the trash! Her brothers, including her twin are introverts, her dad is as well. I'm slightly extroverted, but not as much as her. She's exhausting. BUT! lots of fun.) I told her she'd still have to do Wilson after school. I think I've mentioned she's a hard worker, and she is. She said "Ok it will be hard at first, but I'll get used to it." 

My H and I have been discussing this, and it's such a balance. Social-emotionally school is definitely better for her. Academically, obviously home would be better, but it hasn't gotten to the point *yet* where it's been detrimental. If/when it does, she's done. I operate from a place that mental health trumps all. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Lecka said:

I think this is a great point.  Self-confidence is huge, huge, huge for my son.  Needing not to be defined by his handwriting is huge for my son.  I think it absolutely could be social for your daughter!  And then — some parts of school are just not as important.

My son got a lot of milage from getting good feedback from teachers orally, it made up for a lot.  And he liked being around other kids, too.  

In middle school the social part has gotten more important for him, in elementary it was part of things but not the main thing, but I can see it being the main thing for sure.  

And then it’s like — academics is just one part of school or just one part of self-concept, and it’s very important but it’s not the only thing.  

I think mental health has to be the highest priority but it can be hard to know what will be the best — intervene more, intervene less, make kids feel like you have their back, make kids feel like you think they are fragile.  It is a hard balance I think.  

 

Yes, it's a tightrope! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Leave it to me to under-value social, lol. But still we all make choices. I really liked the whole person development I saw at our local dyslexia school. And they had social.

Did Running say they *had* an option like that but it was a bit of a drive and wretchedly expensive? So what about doing that for 1-2 years and getting her on track and ready to go back? It might be a safe compromise. 

 

If she were more severe, we would probably try to make it work. It's upwards of 30k a year and remember no IEP so no scholarship. 😖

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Pen said:

Do get Signed up with Bookshare, NLS, Learning Ally while you’ve got the tutor teacher to help sign forms.  

That audiobook access should help keep your dd from getting lost/behind in terms of content learning. 

If teachers can’t read her writing and won’t allow tech, that’s unlikely to be a lasting problem for her and more a frustration for them, which you can show them them the tutor letter about...

 

I was going to ask for audiobooks in the 504, and also for a list of books the class will read so we can start them early. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Runningmom80 said:

 

If she were more severe, we would probably try to make it work. It's upwards of 30k a year and remember no IEP so no scholarship. 😖

On the flipside, if you talk with the school, they might be able to get her an IEP. It can work that way. I *think* the law is the first IEP will be made by the district the private school is in. The follow-up IEPs are handled by your district of residence. So if she enrolls in the dyslexia school, is getting services, and they're telling the ps district they're in that it needs to happen, it may happen. It's something you could talk through with them. If the district the private school is in is DIFFERENT from your district of residence, you have that chance. And the dyslexia school will know their track record on that.

It's same gig with autism, where people will enroll and let the autism school fight for them at the IEP meetings.

I know I just suggested something unrealistic and expensive, sorry. But it would at least be something to ask with a quick call. 

Reality though is that if she's reading on grade level, she probably doesn't need the dyslexia school. Just thinking out loud. 

That's really encouraging that she's taking it on the chin and willing to work more. Great attitude!

Edited by PeterPan
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Runningmom80 said:

also for a list of books the class will read so we can start them early. 

Is she reading slowly? Have you worked on RAN/RAS? For some reason, tutors don't work on it. The evidence is really fledgling, but *I* say work on it. Costs nothing and it may speed up her reading.

Definitely do any books that are assigned as read-alongs. Comprehension goes up big time and she's probably supposed to comprehend what she's reading, lol. They're probably wanting some kind of journal or project or paper or something. If the point is decoding, then she decodes. If the point is comprehension, use full power tech.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Runningmom80 said:

 

I was going to ask for audiobooks in the 504, and also for a list of books the class will read so we can start them early. 

 

 

Good idea.  

In addition, I suggest you get what you can without relying on school for it.  Contact Bookshare yourself and see what they need to sign her up.  And see if your tutor teacher can ask for it.   

If you have a public library with access to Hoopla and or Overdrive audiobooks, start having her listen to audiobooks to see if she can get used to using them.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Lecka said:

http://www.handwriting-solutions.com/

This is a dysgraphia website I like.  

So my older son who is a rising freshman — he has an extensive history of speech therapy, OT, and dyslexia remediation (mostly by me).  He had an IEP through 6th grade with some combination of speech therapy, OT, or executive function supports.

He hasn’t had an IEP since the end of 6th grade and he is thriving.  He is in regular English and History, not advanced, and he will take Algebra in 9th grade (though we are in New York and I think the regular math track here is more advanced).  

He does what he needs to do for school and figures out a way to make things work.

They do also have the Google classroom stuff which has been extremely, extremely helpful for him.

The main thing is his strengths more than make up for his weaknesses.  I think that is so important for him.

It’s really not a global issue even though handwriting effects many areas.  

I do think it is important to watch for though — depression or anxiety.  I think that warrants a lot more.

But just things being not-as-good but the child feels like “I’m out there doing it” is probably better than things being the best but the child feeling like “this is a vote of no-confidence.” 

I don’t think it “should” be that way, but I never found a way around it for him.  He just wants to be a regular kid who has slightly bad handwriting, but it isn’t everything about him.  

 

I meant to quote this earlier, but thank you for this post, especially the bolded. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, PeterPan said:

On the flipside, if you talk with the school, they might be able to get her an IEP. It can work that way. I *think* the law is the first IEP will be made by the district the private school is in. The follow-up IEPs are handled by your district of residence. So if she enrolls in the dyslexia school, is getting services, and they're telling the ps district they're in that it needs to happen, it may happen. It's something you could talk through with them. If the district the private school is in is DIFFERENT from your district of residence, you have that chance. And the dyslexia school will know their track record on that.

It's same gig with autism, where people will enroll and let the autism school fight for them at the IEP meetings.

I know I just suggested something unrealistic and expensive, sorry. But it would at least be something to ask with a quick call. 

Reality though is that if she's reading on grade level, she probably doesn't need the dyslexia school. Just thinking out loud. 

That's really encouraging that she's taking it on the chin and willing to work more. Great attitude!

 

Thats good to know! Although I honestly don’t have the first 27k to get her started. 

I went back to her achievement testing to see where exactly her reading was and it looks like she’s above grade level. I can definitely see the dyslexia in her scores. 

 

FCDD92E0-76C2-4B4B-86BA-45A20CFF8491.png

7DB9ADC4-E3B7-49F7-9206-3864E6A5363F.png

59E142D8-F073-4889-9A8A-DE933FBE474B.png

72BD2D1A-FD9E-46A1-BDEF-0A367B7FB696.png

164597B7-E2D6-41AE-AFD3-BADD4FE578ED.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see the dyslexia too, but they are also good, solid scores.  

If she has trouble at school I would have advice for sure.  But I think there's plenty of room to be optimistic 🙂 

Dysgraphia really does suck, though.  It can be really, really hard on kids.  If it's hard on her, she definitely needs things.  If she is doing fine but it's not all it "could" be then I think that is a good situation (I've found it to be a good situation with my son).  It's hard though -- I will think he "should" be doing more but it's just not his personality or his choices, and he is old enough (though he is older than your daughter at this point) I think his self-direction is pretty important.  

My son had a writing sample (iirc) score of 86 and I had a big to-do because the cut-off was 85, and I had to go up to the district level.  But his teacher thought he needed extra help, the resource teacher thought he needed extra help, etc, when he was in 5th/6th, he was having problems in school.  But he does not now.  

I think it is good to go off of actual functioning and not just test scores.  

I do definitely affirm though, I see dyslexia in the test scores. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if you have looked at the Eides (a couple who write a lot about dyslexia and dysgraphia) and I am not super into them, but I think they are good, and they have a lot about kids who take big self-esteem hits when they can't do output like they want.  I have seen that too with my son, and he was not doing very well in a lot of ways in 5th grade.  But at the same time, he was also doing well.  It's hard to explain, but handwriting is both a really big deal, and also "just handwriting."  

And then for reading -- it's the same, it's a big deal but also "just reading/decoding."  

My son had the same thing where he had about 119 (I think he got a 116) for reading comprehension and then all his word attack types of things (all his decoding types of things) were in the 80s.  It is definitely a dyslexia profile, I think.  But it's also like -- so what, he is a solid reader.  (Edit -- he had a neuropsych testing in 4th grade, I was expecting a dysgraphia diagnosis because of hearing it from OT -- private and school both lol -- and at the time I was very concerned about him possibly getting a late autism diagnosis, my younger son has autism and with learning about signs my older son had red flags here and there -- but he didn't get diagnosed with autism).  

Edited by Lecka
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Really -- my feeling on remediated dyslexia is -- it's remediated!  It's not some permanent thing, even though in a way it is.  It just doesn't have to be that big of a deal, I think.  

I would say with my son -- it's remediated, it's really remediated.  

But I would also say -- he does not read as well as my daughter.  But my daughter is a really good reader.  I have had her past two teachers comment to me on how fluently she reads, how the love to listen to her read out loud, etc.  She is particularly good at it.  

My son is more average but it does not reflect his overall ability.  

I think it's okay to just be one of those things, because really he IS remediated.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

But yeah -- he's kind-of smarter, kind-of a deeper thinker, kind-of more of a kid who says original things and has conversations with adults --------- compared to my daughter, even though she is a better reader.  

They are just different kids in many ways.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think in ways "my" (as in -- for my own feelings) biggest problem has been -- at times people will assume from talking to him, he would be a stronger performing student, and it just is not the case that he is performing as a student on the level that might be expected from someone talking to him.  But he is doing good, he is doing great for himself.  It's just hard to explain sometimes.  

I have had feelings like I have been judged as a parent for not having him in g/t, for not taking him to math circle, for not having him in advanced classes, etc, but it's something that is just hard to explain to people sometimes.  

But I think it is better for my son if I do not have a lot invested in those things.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

He has had low confidence and anxiety, and I think for him to have solid confidence and little-to-no anxiety is really the thing to prioritize.  

I do have a lot of faith in him!  

Whether or not he hits some external checkpoints, I do have a lot of faith in him.  

He is also a pretty nice person!  

Edited by Lecka
Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I don't know if you have looked at the Eides (a couple who write a lot about dyslexia and dysgraphia) and I am not super into them, but I think they are good, and they have a lot about kids who take big self-esteem hits when they can't do output like they want.  I have seen that too with my son, and he was not doing very well in a lot of ways in 5th grade.  But at the same time, he was also doing well.  It's hard to explain, but handwriting is both a really big deal, and also "just handwriting."  

And then for reading -- it's the same, it's a big deal but also "just reading/decoding."  

My son had the same thing where he had about 119 (I think he got a 116) for reading comprehension and then all his word attack types of things (all his decoding types of things) were in the 80s.  It is definitely a dyslexia profile, I think.  But it's also like -- so what, he is a solid reader.  (Edit -- he had a neuropsych testing in 4th grade, I was expecting a dysgraphia diagnosis because of hearing it from OT -- private and school both lol -- and at the time I was very concerned about him possibly getting a late autism diagnosis, my younger son has autism and with learning about signs my older son had red flags here and there -- but he didn't get diagnosed with autism).  

 

Yes, I read the Dyslexic advantage and subscribed to their newsletter. 

Agree about the self esteem and it seems to have gotten better since she has gotten a diagnosis. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Trouble learning math facts often goes with dyslexia and seems to show up on the scores. If you are going after help from the school that might be another area to try to get some help.  

One can see a pattern in the scores that looks like dyslexia, but it looks like she’s mostly functioning above average with her weak areas not drastically below. 

I take it that irl she seems much more impaired?

On the paper test it doesn’t look like she actually  would need audiobooks to be able to keep up with the class. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Standard deviation with stanines is 3, right? You can google for that test. So our ps was willing to consider discrepancy (IQ vs achievement) and you might be there. But no, the scores won't get you there. Almost guaranteed the school will want numbers, because that's how it rolls. They'll usually want 1.5+ SD of discrepancy.

And the plus side is even the decoding scores were good!! If she's making good progress on spelling now, then she may actually get pretty functional. There are dyslexics who get through school, read, crank it out, etc. It's wicked hard, but they get it done. And you're doing the right things, getting her the intervention, getting her the tech.

The other things they watch dyslexia are reading comprehension (those scores were AWESOME), social skills, and emotional regulation. Yeah, math facts happen, lol. I'm a super fan of Ronit Bird, so you might whiz her through some of that right now, this summer. The ebooks are stupid cheap and they might make it click, get 'em nailed. She has Dots for basic add/subtr and then a multiplication book that is brilliant. If she nails those, do the fractions ebook. You could probably get her through Dots in short order, maybe 1-2 days. Then play her +/- turnovers game from her free games ebook. After you play that +/- turnovers a bit, start writing the equations, making them more complex, boom. The multiplication will take her longer to get through. The C-rods book is good but it's for multi-digit, and you were saying facts.

 

Edited by PeterPan
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

In our experience, a disability diagnosis alone won't qualify a child for services or a 504. A 504 will only be given if the disability interferes with her ability to show adequate progress in learning the curriculum. Adequate progress is defined as basically not failing really badly- living up to your own potential isn't really a priority. The system is designed to be reactive instead of proactive. 

You might have better luck getting a 504 that doesn't ask for services but asks for things like extra time for tests. 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Pen said:

Trouble learning math facts often goes with dyslexia and seems to show up on the scores. If you are going after help from the school that might be another area to try to get some help.  

One can see a pattern in the scores that looks like dyslexia, but it looks like she’s mostly functioning above average with her weak areas not drastically below. 

I take it that irl she seems much more impaired?

On the paper test it doesn’t look like she actually  would need audiobooks to be able to keep up with the class. 

 

She has to work very hard to be not drastically below in the weak areas. Also, it's one of those things where it seems like it's not horrible now, but we can see down the road where more writing is expected that the wheels may fall off. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...