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I just got test results for dd10 and would love some BTDT advice


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I just got the results of educational testing for dd10.  I suspected dyslexia and wanted to do some baseline testing. I went to a psych (not a neuropsych) so she completed the WISC-V, BASC-3, WJ-IV COG, and WIAT-III. My daughter was diagnosed with SLD in Reading (comprehension, word reading accuracy, reading rate and fluency) and SLD in Written Expression (spelling, grammar and punctuation accuracy).  Her spelling was 19%ile and sentence building was 10%ile on the WIAT-III.  The psych said my daughter has trouble with long term memory and has a weakness in auditory processing but she doesn't think it's severe enough to be a disorder.  We are in summer school mode (mom inflicted since we homeschool) and my daughter will be starting 5th grade in the fall. I started Wilson Reading System with her this summer and it's going well.  She even has noticed that she is learning better than before.  We use Math Mammoth for math and are currently spending time also working on subtraction and multiplication facts (via Xtramath, flashcards, an app and worksheets).  For the WISC her IQ scores were all average except for Visual Spatial (97%ile, superior), Working Memory (93%ile, superior), and her Full Scale IQ was 117 (87%ile, high average).  For the WJ-IV her scores were all average except for her Verbal Attention which was high average (we do a lot of work orally).  Her long-term retrieval was average but was a lot lower than the other scores (17%ile).  Something that is going well is that my daughter is realizing when she is learning and when she is not.  For example, we worked on a Latin workbook last year (Prima Latina) and she did not retain anything.  I changed tactics and now am having her just work on flashcards daily (a current lesson and previous lesson) and she does Quizlet for the current lesson twice a week.  We see a lot of improvement in this change.    For the writing accommodations, the psych said I'm already doing everything she would recommend.   Typically my dd dictates, I write and then she copies it or we do work orally.  Are there other teaching or study techniques that you think would be helpful for her?  

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4 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

Her long-term retrieval was average but was a lot lower than the other scores (17%ile). 

That's kind of interesting. I would assume that's an EF thing, but she has some other good attention scores. Theoretically you can have EF issues without ADHD, but ADHD is 60% comorbid with dyslexia. Something to think through. Either way, read on EF.

4 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

For the writing accommodations, the psych said I'm already doing everything she would recommend. 

Hogwash.

4 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

Something that is going well is that my daughter is realizing when she is learning and when she is not.  For example, we worked on a Latin workbook last year (Prima Latina) and she did not retain anything. 

Hmm, I think we would all do well to eat chocolate cake before answering this one. Do you think it was:

-using a mode of presentation that is in her disability

-insufficient practice to compensate for disability

-forgetting things that were temporarily learned but didn't get maintained through application

4 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

We see a lot of improvement in this change.

See this is interesting, and I'm in the never say can't camp, definitely! There are also kind of diminishing returns and working excessively hard for the gains. Where was her processing speed? Latin is going to be heavy in inflections, conjugations, declensions, blah blah. Basically it's all language math, processing equations using language over and over. So if she has low processing speed AND a language disability (which dyslexia is), it can be an uphill climb. It can be done and it can be worth it. Just saying if she stalls going up the hill, that's a place where you decide whether to move to a different road. But at the Prima Latina level, sure you're basically just memorizing vocab and bits, see how it goes.

The normal advice on foreign language with dyslexics is not to do it. The psych should write it in the paperwork and give you a pass. Even with very, very bright kids, the amount of effort it takes may not be worth it. I did the research on it because of my dd with ADHD. She too was sort of bright and capable but without the paper trail saying not to. The amount of what it took to work on a language was just TOO MUCH. We're literally graduating her in a different major than she would have because of the foreign language requirement. It can be a long-term problem, sigh. 

4 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

I started Wilson Reading System with her this summer and it's going well.

When did you begin Wilson relative to the testing? I was just wondering. And is she on track, with your current level of intervention, to make significant progress within the next two years? I would definitely keep an aggressive pace on it. So 11 now, maybe rising 6th? 5th? So if you can finish cranking that out by 7th and hit more spelling over 8th, you're sitting well for 9th. Definitely want an aggressive pace.

4 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

The psych said my daughter has trouble with long term memory and has a weakness in auditory processing but she doesn't think it's severe enough to be a disorder. 

Ok so if you can find an SLP who specializes in literacy, they could do a bit more testing for you like something for word retrieval and something for narrative language. The word retrieval was something the neuropsych did on my dd. Long term memory I don't know a ton about, so I'm not clear where she's going with that. Low working memory impedes getting things into long-term memory. What was her working memory?

Don't look at "average" and terms btw. Look at the discrepancy and how many standard deviations of discrepancy there is to see if the difference between her highs and lows are significant.

So back to the APD. If you were to ask an audiologist, the APD would be kind of mysterious and other than an ABLE Kids filter (which my dd has, uses, wears, finds helpful) there's crap little they do for it. BUT if you were to ask an SLP, they'll tell you the audiologists are hogwash that it's a language disability (which hello we already know is there because she has dyslexia) and that working on language always at least improves language. 

So you AT LEAST have the option to dig in on language and figure out how much is affected. You can do it with your own head, just by thinking about what you know about her narrative language, syntax, ability to use vocabulary (which is not just how many words but how she uses words, like the ability to describe things, google EET), retrieval specific words, etc. You already know. So you can go either way, and if there are no funds for the SLP then just think and you probably already know the answer. There's more you would learn, but thinking about what you know will be a start.

You asked about writing. It's such a loaded question. I think maybe just tell us what your gut is on those. One, how are her narratives, her narrations. Two, how is her ability to use language and vocabulary with precision. Three, how is she with retrieving specific words, does she grope for words. 

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I don't think she has ADHD.  She's like the opposite, LOL.  Verry slooow to do things and easy going compared to easy going people.  She's not spacey. 😁

Regarding Prima, I had her filling out the workbook (with help from me right beside her) and I read it all to her.  I forgot (my bad!) that I had the flashcards mixed in with the Latina Christiana cards so I wasn't really reviewing the vocab. with her.  She doesn't do well with fill-in-the blank worksheet type work.  She doesn't seem to remember what she wrote.  It's like she's focusing on the writing/copying and not what the words actually mean.

Processing Speed was 108/70%ile. Working Memory was 122/93%ile.  

She actually really wants to learn a foreign language but most likely Mandarin (which she knows a few words/phrases since we visited China 2 years ago) but she mostly just uses Google translate for that.  She writes her name in Chinese characters on her papers. 😊

I began Wilson about a month before testing.  I'm still getting the hang of it but chose it since it was somewhat familiar.  When I taught PS we used some Wilson products.

Regarding auditory processing--the only main thing I notice is sometimes she mishears me.  So if I say, "Please close the door."  She may say, "What?  Please close the floor?"  Then, she giggles and realizes she misheard me. I had her assessed by an audiologist but her scores were within normal range.  She usually can follow verbal directions with no problem.  She doesn't grope for words and has no problem expressing herself.  Her problem with writing seems to be more that she doesn't know how to spell the words and so it takes her a while.  Typically, I write the work for her to copy so she doesn't guess at spelling. 

 

 

 

 

 

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For the writing, maybe get an OT evaluation to examine handedness, vestibular, motor planning, visual perception, pincer/core strength, and developmental motor.

My son’s dysgraphia is rooted in language and motor issues.  He learned to type and use a spell checker the 2nd half of 5th grade.  Maybe consider teaching your DD mind mapping.  We love the Inspiration app on the iPad.  

Hidden behind the Dyslexic Advantage blog’s paywall is an excellent seminar by Dr. Charles Haynes that addresses dysgraphia.  I encourage you to watch that seminar.

Your daughter’s numbers look really good.  I have one question?  Have you ever administered the Barton pre-test?

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9 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

I don't think she has ADHD.  She's like the opposite, LOL.  Verry slooow to do things and easy going compared to easy going people. 

So you *can* be ADHD with low processing speed. Was that score in her IQ testing? And she's labeled dyslexic? So go read Dyslexic Advantage by the Eides, where they explain the MRI research on brain structure. Widely-spaced mini-columns can result in low processing speed and a different way of learning, more circuitous, more connected. See if the book resonates.

9 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

She doesn't do well with fill-in-the blank worksheet type work.  She doesn't seem to remember what she wrote.  It's like she's focusing on the writing/copying and not what the words actually mean.

That may very well be! Her spelling was wicked low, right? 

9 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

Processing Speed was 108/70%ile. Working Memory was 122/93%ile.  

So this is really interesting. My ds' processing speed is in that range, which given his overall IQ is still discrepant enough to be somewhat of a disability. But given that you're saying she FUNCTIONS like molasses, you have to wonder what's going on there. Like is it worse in noisy backgrounds? Is it worse after certain subjects or with fatigue? Is it worse on certain days, like maybe midweek?

9 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

She actually really wants to learn a foreign language but most likely Mandarin (which she knows a few words/phrases since we visited China 2 years ago) but she mostly just uses Google translate for that.  She writes her name in Chinese characters on her papers. 😊

They say chinese is the bomb for dyslexics, a very good choice. Maybe get her a skype tutor?

9 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

I began Wilson about a month before testing.  I'm still getting the hang of it but chose it since it was somewhat familiar.  When I taught PS we used some Wilson products.

Interesting. So not enough to conclude anything. That's fabulous that you already had the training to get it going.

9 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

Regarding auditory processing--the only main thing I notice is sometimes she mishears me.  So if I say, "Please close the door."  She may say, "What?  Please close the floor?" 

Did she pass the screening tool for Barton? It's possible she needs to do LIPS or something first. It's getting a little hard to find by Attention Good Listeners is excellent for working on near differences and discrimination. https://www.amazon.com/Attention-Good-Listeners-Gilliam-Degaetano/dp/B0077FDJ5Y  That $30 seems fair. It's what bust through my ds' problems. I had LIPS, Barton, all these other tools, but these worksheets were fabulous. 

9 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

Working Memory was 122/93%ile.

Nice! Was there a RAN/RAS score anywhere? Did he run a CTOPP? You always want to look at RAN/RAS with a dyslexic. These professionals go in circles about whether it's necessary, whether it can be improved, and I say just do it. Huge gains, small amount of effort, zero cost. I've shared dot pages in the past, but make your own, do them with numbers, whatever you want.

I think pairing cognitive work with your early instruction is really wise. RAN/RAS, the auditory discrimination, little things like this that you can pop in, 10 minutes at a time.

9 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

Her problem with writing seems to be more that she doesn't know how to spell the words and so it takes her a while.  Typically, I write the work for her to copy so she doesn't guess at spelling. 

So just my two cents, but maybe think through how automatic her formation is. With my ds OTs would say oh the issue is his spelling, can't spell, so writing is hard. Well his spelling wasn't developmentally ready, but also the writing wasn't automatic and also the visual motor integration was exceptionally poor and also it's just a WRITING DISABILITY. So at some point, even when the spelling is there, even as we improve his visual motor integration (which makes his writing more legible), even as it becomes a little more automatic or comfortable, reality is that brain path from where it's stored to where it's organized to where it's motor planned to come out is stinking crunchy. I'm with Heather that it sounds like she needs an OT eval.

She's 10? Have you started typing? She's young enough to do Talking Fingers and enjoy it, and it would reinforce your decoding instruction. Charming, cheap, good stuff. 

I think you want her writing from the visual image in her head. Copying is fine, but you still want to be building those pathways of I have a thought, I organize my thought, I move it over and motor plan it, kwim? On my ds, it's still wicked hard. My ds' IEP says scribe and he will write brief words, a list. But I want him going from what's in his mind to the paper if he's going to write it. He's not going to write much and what he does write, because it's so little (literally just a few words, a single sentence) needs to be independent. He's not going to have the stamina to do it both ways, if that makes sense. If your kid can, then sure do both. 

20 minutes ago, Heathermomster said:

Have you ever administered the Barton pre-test?

Yup, need to do that. https://bartonreading.com/students/#ss

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16 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

The psych said my daughter has trouble with long term memory and has a weakness in auditory processing but she doesn't think it's severe enough to be a disorder. 

For the WISC her IQ scores were all average except for Visual Spatial (97%ile, superior), Working Memory (93%ile, superior), and her Full Scale IQ was 117 (87%ile, high average).  For the WJ-IV her scores were all average except for her Verbal Attention which was high average (we do a lot of work orally).  Her long-term retrieval was average but was a lot lower than the other scores (17%ile). 

I changed tactics and now am having her just work on flashcards daily (a current lesson and previous lesson) and she does Quizlet for the current lesson twice a week.  We see a lot of improvement in this change.

There are auditory processing interventions--we might be doing some this year as we have a friend qualified to implement them. But we need updated testing first, and she's working on that too. I don't have much information on what we might do yet as a result--sorry about that.

She seems a lot like my son that has low processing speed, relatively low working memory, dyslexia, auditory processing (but more symptoms), ADHD, etc., but I think she might have more going for her in some ways (or just be a little more mature). 

Working on flashcards is good intervention for long-term memory. Storage and retrieval becomes more efficient when you are quizzing and having to pull facts back out. You might make sure that the flash cards quiz more than one way; Latin to English and then English to Latin. Maybe short phrasing as well as vocabulary, etc. If you use flashcards for history, science, or other subjects, you might ask the same question in more than one way. 

12 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Don't look at "average" and terms btw. Look at the discrepancy and how many standard deviations of discrepancy there is to see if the difference between her highs and lows are significant. 

BUT if you were to ask an SLP, they'll tell you the audiologists are hogwash that it's a language disability (which hello we already know is there because she has dyslexia) and that working on language always at least improves language. 

One, how are her narratives, her narrations. Two, how is her ability to use language and vocabulary with precision. 

Agreed, except on the auditory stuff. I think that at some point, they might merge diagnoses or put it under one umbrella, similar to how ADHD is ADHD with hyperactivity, inattentive, or combined. I really think that for some people, the auditory processing and the language are two sides of the same coin, and with other kids, their issue presents primarily one way or the other (dyslexia or auditory processing).

11 hours ago, Pen said:

My Ds did well with a Bravewriter ish approach to writing (composition).  And emphasis on typing rather than penmanship.

I don't know a lot about Bravewriter other that it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I am going to recommend though that you consider it and to also consider Rooted in Language for the broader language arts concepts (grammar, writing, literature, vocabulary)--they have a whole suite of parent help, parent training, and specific products. They are compatible with Bravewriter--authors know each other, etc. They are actually doing SLP work local to me, and they are busy, highly regarded, and dyslexic kids are their bread and butter. They are really intuitive about how to work on these things in a homeschool setting. Their stuff is not what my older son needs for language work (yet--he might get there), but for my dyslexic kid, their stuff looks really promising. They have a Facebook page that functions as a support group. https://www.rootedinlanguage.com/

Are they going to cite tons of research? Not necessarily. Do they keep up with it? Yes. Is their program cohesive, but flexible? Yes. 

11 hours ago, ChocolateCake said:

I don't think she has ADHD.  She's like the opposite, LOL.  Verry slooow to do things and easy going compared to easy going people.  She's not spacey. 😁

Regarding Prima, I had her filling out the workbook (with help from me right beside her) and I read it all to her.  I forgot (my bad!) that I had the flashcards mixed in with the Latina Christiana cards so I wasn't really reviewing the vocab. with her.  She doesn't do well with fill-in-the blank worksheet type work.  She doesn't seem to remember what she wrote.  It's like she's focusing on the writing/copying and not what the words actually mean.

Regarding auditory processing--the only main thing I notice is sometimes she mishears me.  So if I say, "Please close the door."  She may say, "What?  Please close the floor?"  Then, she giggles and realizes she misheard me. I had her assessed by an audiologist but her scores were within normal range.  She usually can follow verbal directions with no problem.  She doesn't grope for words and has no problem expressing herself.  Her problem with writing seems to be more that she doesn't know how to spell the words and so it takes her a while.  Typically, I write the work for her to copy so she doesn't guess at spelling. 

I suspect that whatever is causing the writing problems is bad enough that it basically shuts down her processing. It's probably the sum of a group of really difficult things for her suppressing her ability to do things efficiently.

I think that mishearing is definitely something that Peter Pan's suggestion would help. If that is the extent of her auditory problems, she's probably going to mature out of it. 

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Did she pass the screening tool for Barton? It's possible she needs to do LIPS or something first. It's getting a little hard to find by Attention Good Listeners is excellent for working on near differences and discrimination. https://www.amazon.com/Attention-Good-Listeners-Gilliam-Degaetano/dp/B0077FDJ5Y  That $30 seems fair. It's what bust through my ds' problems. I had LIPS, Barton, all these other tools, but these worksheets were fabulous. 

Nice! Was there a RAN/RAS score anywhere? Did he run a CTOPP? You always want to look at RAN/RAS with a dyslexic. These professionals go in circles about whether it's necessary, whether it can be improved, and I say just do it. Huge gains, small amount of effort, zero cost. I've shared dot pages in the past, but make your own, do them with numbers, whatever you want.

I think pairing cognitive work with your early instruction is really wise. RAN/RAS, the auditory discrimination, little things like this that you can pop in, 10 minutes at a time.

So just my two cents, but maybe think through how automatic her formation is. 

She's 10? Have you started typing? She's young enough to do Talking Fingers and enjoy it, and it would reinforce your decoding instruction. Charming, cheap, good stuff. 

I think you want her writing from the visual image in her head.

I think the Rooted In Language people have some visual stuff that could help with spelling. Also, Sequential Spelling is good for people with strong visual skills. Both of my kids are visual spellers, even the non-dyslexic one. Sequential Spelling also works on word parts and morphology--using a base word, adding prefixes, suffixes, forming plurals, etc. while at the same time working on patterns. Once my kids are proficient typists (can be slow, but MUST be accurate), we type the spelling lists so that they get the motor memory of the patterns for typing. The lists in those books would be compatible with the Rooted In Language approach to vocabulary, spelling, and morphology (focusing on word parts, etc.). 

For math facts, have you consider using cuisinaire rods to help her visual her facts? My younger son did extensive rod work, and for a long time, he pictured the colors and sizes of the rods to add and subtract. Education Unboxed has a lot of fact retrieval activities rods (free videos). With her good visual spatial skills, doing something visual might move the facts along more quickly.

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I also recommend www.talkingfingers.com for typing

my Ds also could only copy as if it were a form drawing but not with meaning attached. 

We eliminated copywork and spelling and emphasized composition and typing 

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10 hours ago, PeterPan said:

So you *can* be ADHD with low processing speed. Was that score in her IQ testing? And she's labeled dyslexic? So go read Dyslexic Advantage by the Eides, where they explain the MRI research on brain structure. Widely-spaced mini-columns can result in low processing speed and a different way of learning, more circuitous, more connected. See if the book resonates.

I read it after making an appt. with the psych.  She definitely seems like the creative dyslexic folks (don't remember the technical term).  She can "see" a cute model of a house in her brain when all I see is a crumpled up piece of paper.  She re-uses stuff all the time (styrofoam, the packing in Amazon boxes, etc.) to make something cute.

10 hours ago, PeterPan said:

 

That may very well be! Her spelling was wicked low, right? 

Spelling is her hardest subject.  I do see her doing better with the way Wilson teaches it though.  I didn't actually do the Wilson training years ago as I think maybe the school was cutting costs and just sent the reading specialist to do it and then train the rest of us.  I think the program we used was similar to their fluency program.  Nonetheless, with just a TM I can do a lot more for her than I could do for my students with my "training".  There's a lot of multisensory components I didn't realize existed when I taught PS.

10 hours ago, PeterPan said:

 

So this is really interesting. My ds' processing speed is in that range, which given his overall IQ is still discrepant enough to be somewhat of a disability. But given that you're saying she FUNCTIONS like molasses, you have to wonder what's going on there. Like is it worse in noisy backgrounds? Is it worse after certain subjects or with fatigue? Is it worse on certain days, like maybe midweek?

I don't really see a pattern. She remembers details about bonsai trees because that's one of her latest interests.  She's listening to an audiobook about them.  So, if she thinks something is worth knowing she keeps the info in her head longer.

10 hours ago, PeterPan said:

They say chinese is the bomb for dyslexics, a very good choice. Maybe get her a skype tutor?

Not in the budget right now but maybe later on.  

10 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Did she pass the screening tool for Barton? It's possible she needs to do LIPS or something first. It's getting a little hard to find by Attention Good Listeners is excellent for working on near differences and discrimination. https://www.amazon.com/Attention-Good-Listeners-Gilliam-Degaetano/dp/B0077FDJ5Y  That $30 seems fair. It's what bust through my ds' problems. I had LIPS, Barton, all these other tools, but these worksheets were fabulous. 

 She didn't pass the third part (syllables).

10 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Nice! Was there a RAN/RAS score anywhere? Did he run a CTOPP? You always want to look at RAN/RAS with a dyslexic. These professionals go in circles about whether it's necessary, whether it can be improved, and I say just do it. Huge gains, small amount of effort, zero cost. I've shared dot pages in the past, but make your own, do them with numbers, whatever you want.

I think pairing cognitive work with your early instruction is really wise. RAN/RAS, the auditory discrimination, little things like this that you can pop in, 10 minutes at a time.

So just my two cents, but maybe think through how automatic her formation is. With my ds OTs would say oh the issue is his spelling, can't spell, so writing is hard. Well his spelling wasn't developmentally ready, but also the writing wasn't automatic and also the visual motor integration was exceptionally poor and also it's just a WRITING DISABILITY. So at some point, even when the spelling is there, even as we improve his visual motor integration (which makes his writing more legible), even as it becomes a little more automatic or comfortable, reality is that brain path from where it's stored to where it's organized to where it's motor planned to come out is stinking crunchy. I'm with Heather that it sounds like she needs an OT eval.

I don't see RAN/RAS or CTOPP.  Who typically does those tests?  I'm not sure how much more we want to spend on testing.  We saw a psych this time but will probably see a neuropsych next time as I think I really need more details about how her brain works. Or maybe we should see an SLP?  I'm not sure right now.

10 hours ago, PeterPan said:

 

She's 10? Have you started typing? She's young enough to do Talking Fingers and enjoy it, and it would reinforce your decoding instruction. Charming, cheap, good stuff. 

I think you want her writing from the visual image in her head. Copying is fine, but you still want to be building those pathways of I have a thought, I organize my thought, I move it over and motor plan it, kwim? On my ds, it's still wicked hard. My ds' IEP says scribe and he will write brief words, a list. But I want him going from what's in his mind to the paper if he's going to write it. He's not going to write much and what he does write, because it's so little (literally just a few words, a single sentence) needs to be independent. He's not going to have the stamina to do it both ways, if that makes sense. If your kid can, then sure do both. 

Yup, need to do that. https://bartonreading.com/students/#ss

Yes, she's 10. I switched her to Teach Type Read and Spell a couple of months ago.  She's slow but it's much easier for her than regular typing (we were doing typing.com) because it reads the words to her.  She actually does some writing without copying during her Wilson lessons.  She spells sounds, words, nonsense words, phrases and then 6 sentences that I dictate.  She actually seems to enjoy the dictation portion which I am surprised about.  Maybe because she can actually spell the words.  

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8 hours ago, kbutton said:

There are auditory processing interventions--we might be doing some this year as we have a friend qualified to implement them. But we need updated testing first, and she's working on that too. I don't have much information on what we might do yet as a result--sorry about that.

She seems a lot like my son that has low processing speed, relatively low working memory, dyslexia, auditory processing (but more symptoms), ADHD, etc., but I think she might have more going for her in some ways (or just be a little more mature). 

Working on flashcards is good intervention for long-term memory. Storage and retrieval becomes more efficient when you are quizzing and having to pull facts back out. You might make sure that the flash cards quiz more than one way; Latin to English and then English to Latin. Maybe short phrasing as well as vocabulary, etc. If you use flashcards for history, science, or other subjects, you might ask the same question in more than one way. 

Agreed, except on the auditory stuff. I think that at some point, they might merge diagnoses or put it under one umbrella, similar to how ADHD is ADHD with hyperactivity, inattentive, or combined. I really think that for some people, the auditory processing and the language are two sides of the same coin, and with other kids, their issue presents primarily one way or the other (dyslexia or auditory processing).

I don't know a lot about Bravewriter other that it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I am going to recommend though that you consider it and to also consider Rooted in Language for the broader language arts concepts (grammar, writing, literature, vocabulary)--they have a whole suite of parent help, parent training, and specific products. They are compatible with Bravewriter--authors know each other, etc. They are actually doing SLP work local to me, and they are busy, highly regarded, and dyslexic kids are their bread and butter. They are really intuitive about how to work on these things in a homeschool setting. Their stuff is not what my older son needs for language work (yet--he might get there), but for my dyslexic kid, their stuff looks really promising. They have a Facebook page that functions as a support group. https://www.rootedinlanguage.com/

I'll look into this, thanks.  Who usually does auditory processing interventions?

8 hours ago, kbutton said:

Are they going to cite tons of research? Not necessarily. Do they keep up with it? Yes. Is their program cohesive, but flexible? Yes. 

I suspect that whatever is causing the writing problems is bad enough that it basically shuts down her processing. It's probably the sum of a group of really difficult things for her suppressing her ability to do things efficiently.

I think that mishearing is definitely something that Peter Pan's suggestion would help. If that is the extent of her auditory problems, she's probably going to mature out of it. 

The funny thing is, I only noticed the mishearing about 3 years ago.  She never had a language delay or anything like that.  But when I started to teach her to read, she would turn her head away.  I just figured she wasn't ready.  I've been waiting for years for things to "click" and they just never really did.

8 hours ago, kbutton said:

I think the Rooted In Language people have some visual stuff that could help with spelling. Also, Sequential Spelling is good for people with strong visual skills. Both of my kids are visual spellers, even the non-dyslexic one. Sequential Spelling also works on word parts and morphology--using a base word, adding prefixes, suffixes, forming plurals, etc. while at the same time working on patterns. Once my kids are proficient typists (can be slow, but MUST be accurate), we type the spelling lists so that they get the motor memory of the patterns for typing. The lists in those books would be compatible with the Rooted In Language approach to vocabulary, spelling, and morphology (focusing on word parts, etc.). 

For math facts, have you consider using cuisinaire rods to help her visual her facts? My younger son did extensive rod work, and for a long time, he pictured the colors and sizes of the rods to add and subtract. Education Unboxed has a lot of fact retrieval activities rods (free videos). With her good visual spatial skills, doing something visual might move the facts along more quickly.

These are both great ideas.  I think Sequential Spelling looks good but I'm covering spelling right now with Wilson.  Maybe in the future.

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1 hour ago, ChocolateCake said:

She didn't pass the third part (syllables).

Uh oh. That fits with what you were saying about her auditory discrimination. https://bartonreading.com/student-result/#sf  Here's what Barton says to do with those results. You would go do LIPS or FIS. Both are fine and it doesn't sound like Wilson includes that step either. You can do that Attention Good Listeners on top of LIPS or FIS, yes. It's excellent and will blend nicely.

1 hour ago, ChocolateCake said:

I'll look into this, thanks.  Who usually does auditory processing interventions?

In a school they're assigned to the SLP. If you go to Linguisystems and put in auditory processing, you'll find stuff. Thing is, her breakdown is partly at the phonemic level, individual sounds, so you want something targeting that. 

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31 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Uh oh. That fits with what you were saying about her auditory discrimination. https://bartonreading.com/student-result/#sf  Here's what Barton says to do with those results. You would go do LIPS or FIS. Both are fine and it doesn't sound like Wilson includes that step either. You can do that Attention Good Listeners on top of LIPS or FIS, yes. It's excellent and will blend nicely.

In a school they're assigned to the SLP. If you go to Linguisystems and put in auditory processing, you'll find stuff. Thing is, her breakdown is partly at the phonemic level, individual sounds, so you want something targeting that. 

Oops, I meant she didn't pass part B (syllables).  I think Wilson does address syllables later on in the program.  I remember teaching the kids to mark syllables in words.  I will look into the programs you listed.  Thanks!

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19 minutes ago, ChocolateCake said:

Oops, I meant she didn't pass part B (syllables).  I think Wilson does address syllables later on in the program.  I remember teaching the kids to mark syllables in words.  I will look into the programs you listed.  Thanks!

That's a lot better!

https://www.readingrockets.org/strategies/syllable_games This is what Barton recommends

https://bartonreading.com/student-result/ Here's the page where she explains

It's still kind of curious that she's having these discrimination issues in speech. Those worksheets I linked were magic for my ds for that.

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