Social activity averse child

[EverLearningMom]

I could really use some advice.  I have a little boy, 6, that does not like or want to do anything social. He has an older brother who is happy to do social things - library groups, drop-off programs, field trips with other homeschool families, etc. I have no idea what to do and I'm kind of getting to the end of my homeschooling rope because my little one just won't do anything without a massive fight, and even then, it doesn't often work. When he was younger I knew all I had to do was get him in his carseat and we're good to go, since he couldn't unbuckle. But those days are over. So no, this isn't something new - this is very much his personality. He's an introvert, 100% and always has been. The complete opposite of his brother. I will say that he is perfectly happy to be home and ride his bike, play with Legos, Minecraft, play with his brother, etc. He's also okay to do an occasional field trip if it's JUST with his brother and I. If we invite any friends to go along, forget it. (side note - he often ends up having a good time, but it doesn't stop him from protesting every time it comes up) As you can imagine, it's really starting to affect our family life. It's affecting my ability to feel like I'm providing his brother with enough of a social life because we have such a hard time getting out of the house. Friends are starting to blow us off because we so often end up not making it to things because I can't outfight my little guy some mornings. It's very hard to explain that my son wants nothing to do with them, in a kind way! It's kind of a mess, I'm sad to say. 

On the flip side, he has been doing a once a week drop off group, reasonably happily, up to this point, because his brother went with him. This year, his brother has aged out of the group. That group was always my "at least he's doing this so I can feel okay" thing. Now he's refusing to go because he feels he's too old too. He's also refusing to go to a weekly group gathering because there is one child he claims he doesn't like (but he's always seemed to get along with him). I understand uncomfortability with social situations. What I'm stuck on is how to handle it. We have always been primarily homebodies, but make a point of getting out and doing something social once or twice a week, beyond the usual grocery shopping, etc. I just don't know what to do, and don't like the way this is affecting our everyday life. Can anyone relate to this? Any advice is welcome. 

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would stop trying to make him do things just to make you feel better about his socialization. It sounds like doing the things for your older son is his limit. It is hard to meet the needs of kids with very different needs, I know, but he’s fine not having a drop off program at his age. I would keep doing the things where his brother has fun. It sounds like they are both getting something out of those even if he balks at first. 

[PeterPan]

Might be helpful to make sure whether you're dealing with introversion or autism. Just sayin'. Cuz that's how it would look at that age. Average age for diagnosis on your aspergers-ish kind of presentation (level 1 support, verbal) is 8-10. 

[Storygirl]

I am an introvert myself, and I think it's okay for him to prefer to stay at home and not socialize much.

The two areas of concern that I spot are that it is hard for you to leave the house, because he objects so much, and that it is causing problems for the social lives of you and your older son.

First, those times of objection and refusal might go better if you try some new strategies. Does he know the plans well in advance, so that he can prepare himself? And on the day itself, are there things that you can do to help him get out the door more smoothly? For example, put things on a family calendar and talk about them in the preceding days. Distinguish between events that may be optional and those that are required by your family. Have a regular morning routine and give him a countdown before leaving, so that he will know when it is 10 minutes before leaving, then five minutes, then time to put on his shoes. Have everything set up and ready to go the night before, so that he is preparing himself even the night before by picking out his clothes, finding his shoes, filling his water bottle, etc. Give him an incentive, like a favorite snack waiting in the car. If he would like it, go to Walmart and buy him a tiny backpack of his choice that he only uses when you go on outings, and let him pack it the night before with the water bottle, a snack, and his favorite toy. And/or buy him a pair of sneakers that he thinks are really cool, and he can wear them whenever you go out for social events. Whatever you can do to build anticipation and smooth over the bumps.

These are just examples, but you get the picture. They may be things that you are already doing; the point is that you can rethink all of the things that happen around the transition time and work to make them better.

Also, to encourage him, consider the nature of the outings themselves. Make sure that at least half of the outings are geared toward his interests, instead of his brother's; sometimes the younger sibling becomes the tagalong, so deliberately switch that up and choose activities that are his preference, even if his brother won't like them as much. Quit taking him to the drop off group, if he doesn't like that any more. Since he is willing to go on field trips with just you and your son, do a lot of those! 

It may be that he is experiencing some true anxiety about leaving the house and socializing, and you could go to a counselor to help work through it, if needed. It may be that it is not anxiety but just him holding fast to his own preferences. It may be hard to tell the difference, but it may help if you can figure that out. If he is objecting so severely that he is acting out in anger and defiance, and you are having trouble with behavior, that also is something different than if he just doesn't feel like going and stalls when it's time to go out the door. I can't really tell, from your description.

The second problem is how you can make sure that your older son -- and you -- have opportunities for the social experiences that are positive for you.

Can you invite the friends to come to your house? Let the younger do his own thing, if he doesn't want to hang out with the guests. Think of a way to explain to your friends what is going on, without suggesting that your son is rejecting them (people here may have some tactful suggestions). Perhaps you can drive your older son to meet the group and then pick him up afterward, or ask someone to drive him back home. Can you ask a grandparent to babysit or hire a sitter? Brainstorm some ways that your older child can still go to events that your younger son is not interested in.

I hope you can come up with some things to make things work better.

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Storygirl

[Storygirl]

If you don't get many responses, you might consider copying your original post and cross-posting it over on the Chat board.

[Rosie_0801]

Tell your friends the truth. Junior is a raging introvert and really doesn't deal well with more than a few people at a time. Anyone who takes offence that a six year old's needs conflict with their preferences is a weirdo. (Parents and siblings excluded. When you live with people, offence happens.)

6 is pretty young still. If he needed the social time, he'd go looking for it. It manifested slightly differently for each, but the desire to be out in the world was very much a developmental thing for both of mine. They needed to exhaust what they had already, before they desired any more.

[kiwik]

I have one like that.  Advance planning doesn't seem to help much as he will seem fine until you are about to go and then refuse to leave the house.  Sometimes he claims you never told him despite the fact you discussed it regularly over the last 3 days and at least 5 times that day and he seemed OK with it.  I do think he has ASD or anxiety but it has taken 5 years to jump through the hoops to see a paediatrician and he is still on the waiting list.  He mostly enjoys things once he and does enjoy his 2 activities that are carefully selected to meet his needs but he would mostly prefer to stay home. It has been almost 2 years though since I left him with at any activities.

[HomeAgain]

I would talk to a doctor.  What you're describing seems to be much more extreme than a typical introvert and I would worry how it would play out in a few years when he's a teen, and it's really starting to affect the rest of you even now. 

[freesia]

39 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

I would talk to a doctor.  What you're describing seems to be much more extreme than a typical introvert and I would worry how it would play out in a few years when he's a teen, and it's really starting to affect the rest of you even now. 

I agree.  This is more than preferring to be at home. A six year old with just a preference would be grumpy, not actively refuse. I would look into anxiety.  

[geodob]

Though is it more of a 'fear of getting out of the house'?
Does he have any difficulty socialising, when people come to your house?

[Arcadia]

My DS14 doesn’t like social activities because he gets bored. What we did when he was 6 was for his younger brother to participate while he sits and read a book nearby. He was tall for his age and looks solemn so no one ever questioned him reading a book quietly nearby. We also went on field trips with my husband taking leave so that whichever child was tired out can stay with my husband while I accompany the other child. 

My kids are a year apart and they have different outdoor interests. My oldest mostly compromised to keep his younger brother happy. However we try to schedule all social activities on weekends so that my husband and I can split the kids up if needed. That way my oldest can go to activities that interest him as well instead of being the tag-along. 

[EverLearningMom]

Thank you so much to everyone who took the time to respond. It's so nice to be able to share this struggle somewhere as it feels like I can't talk to anyone in my life or they'll blame homeschooling - regardless of the fact that his brother is the opposite of him.

Yes, six is young, and it just may be a timing thing. He actually has been coming out of his shell noticeably, in many ways this past year or so, so I do have some hope he will grow out of some of this. And as for the mentions of Apergers and anxiety, I accept that that could the the reality we're facing too. I have an older brother who almost definitely has Aspergers but was never diagnosed, and my husband struggled intensely with social anxiety when he was younger. Not to mention that I'm an introvert, so really it's my older son that's the oddball! 😂 

As for him having an actual fear of leaving the house, I don't think it's quite that, but it is something he needs to deliberate over. Today he went to a movie with us, and he did waver once or twice on the idea but in the end decided he wanted to go with no pushing at all. I had mentioned the idea of inviting another family to join us and that was a definite no. Then I mentioned bringing one friend (a friend of his brothers who he really likes too), and liked that idea. He's very particular...about everything. I think in many ways what he really needs is one good friend to do one-on-one activities with, rather than group activities. Sadly, I'm not finding anyone yet that fits his mold of perfect friend material.

 

[EverLearningMom]

19 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Might be helpful to make sure whether you're dealing with introversion or autism. Just sayin'. Cuz that's how it would look at that age. Average age for diagnosis on your aspergers-ish kind of presentation (level 1 support, verbal) is 8-10. 

This is great information too, and interesting to know that this is how aspergers would present at that age. (I do suspect that if he has anything going on, it would be aspergers.) Would you say it's best to wait until around 8 before seeking out any kind of testing?

[Storygirl]

I don't think there is a reason to wait for evaluations. Early intervention is better, always. You can make an appointment with the pediatrician to talk about it. If you have genuine concerns, don't be put off, if the doctor tries to soothe you by suggesting that you worry too much and all is fine, without listening fully to your concerns. Sometimes parents have to advocate hard to get professionals to listen, and you may need to be insistent about getting a referral for evaluations.

Aspergers is not a diagnosis that is used for new diagnoses now. It has been absorbed into Autism Spectrum Disorder and would usually be called high functioning autism or autism level 1. You can look up the criteria for diagnosis online and read through it, if you google "DSM-5 autism criteria." I found it helpful to do that and also to make notes of specific things that I saw in my child that seemed to fall into those categories. Then I had those notes to give to the psychologist who did the evaluation.

It can be really hard to know when to challenge the child's comfort zone and when to accept it. There is a balance. There are a lot of things that can be discussed regarding this, but there are two things that can be a concern with a child who withdraws from others that I wanted to bring up. First, children absorb so much about life and relationships and the world by observation and experience -- kind of by osmosis -- and kids with autism often miss out on that kind of learning. This can become an issue later on, when they are older and need to draw on this kind of background knowledge. It can affect reading comprehension, communication, seeing how things connect together, and so on. Knowing that you need to offer more explicit direct teaching to your child, just as you go about your day, can make a difference.

Phooey, I forget the second thing right now that I was intent on telling you. But I'll add that children with autism sometimes benefit from speech therapy (for communication skills, even if articulation is fine) and direct instruction in social skills. You can google "social skills and autism" to read about the vast number of things that fall into that category -- it is not exactly what may come first to your mind when I say "social skills."

 

 

[Storygirl]

Another thing -- after reading your first post, the question of possible autism did enter my mind. Since you say it is, in fact, a concern, I wanted to add that many kids with autism do really want to have friends but have trouble with connecting to other children. Trouble reading social cues and/or sensory differences can make kids feel really uncomfortable in groups. If they have trouble connecting with the other children, their peers may ignore or reject them or be standoffish.

If your son finds it hard to make friends, or if peers have left him out, or if it just seems like hard work to interact with people, he may have reasons that he finds socializing to be upsetting, instead of fun. He just may not be able to articulate them.

 

[Rosie_0801]

36 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

Another thing -- after reading your first post, the question of possible autism did enter my mind. Since you say it is, in fact, a concern, I wanted to add that many kids with autism do really want to have friends but have trouble with connecting to other children. Trouble reading social cues and/or sensory differences can make kids feel really uncomfortable in groups. 

 

And sometimes their peers are really boring and they'll socialise just fine when they find people who don't bore them.

[PeterPan]

14 hours ago, EverLearningMom said:

This is great information too, and interesting to know that this is how aspergers would present at that age. (I do suspect that if he has anything going on, it would be aspergers.) Would you say it's best to wait until around 8 before seeking out any kind of testing?

Uh no, it's just the opposite. You want him to be identified NOW and begin intervention and supports NOW. This is your best window. Waiting is late. 

As Story says, it's now technically all ASD with support levels, 1-3. I'm not sure what support level people previously diagnosed aspergers are going to. Could be 1 or 2. 

So Story is giving you some really good advice here about getting evals. At this age they can work on "interoception" which is being able to recognize what you're feeling. So is he self-advocating and using strategies when he's feeling these things? Or is he just withdrawing, hiding in a closet, refusing to go? I had to bring in professionals who could see my son differently and realize HOW MUCH potential he had to do better. I was used to him as he was. And I like my dc as they are, kwim? We're loving parents. But our kids can have more skills and there are excellent, excellent interventions.

The key to remember is that it's not going to be outgrown. He will mature relative to himself, but left on his natural path he's not going to get to his full potential. He has the ability to understand more and do better and self-advocate better. We cannot assume that because the parents got by without intervention for their anxiety and autism spectrum disorder that the kids will. Kids are individuals and have to be dealt with individually. His level of disability is impacting his ability to function with the family and do things he would otherwise do if he weren't hindered by anxiety and distress. He should have intervention to be able to participate fully and enjoy the things he WILL ENJOY when he has the tools. Right now he's missing out, and that's not fair. 

So you can start by talking with your pediatrician and asking for a referral. You can talk with your county board of disabilities and ask them for help in getting evals and getting access to services. They can help you with funding and connecting with resources. 

[kiwik]

It depends where you are.  While early intervention has been shown to work but many of the experts here refuse to diagnose a kid as young as six.  They will say yes looks a bit like ASD come back in a few years if it hasn't gone away.

[Bambam]

I have two children. One (child A) enjoyed being around other people, the other (Child B) would have preferred to stay home. 
I made Child B go to some things because Child A deserved some time with friends/classes/park day/etc. I didn't make Child B go to absolutely everything that Child A would have liked to go to.

Sometimes in a family, we do things we would prefer not to for the benefit of the others - assuming no serious health issues. I explained this to my children from a young age - it isn't all about you and what you want, sometimes we do what other family member wants because we are a family. My yardstick for when I need to seek answers is when one child's behavior is causing that child or another family member to regularly not be able to do things that are age appropriate/normal. I think it is time to look for outside help/evaluations/guidance. 

[PeterPan]

Not in the US. Early diagnosis all the way. Play Project and play-based therapies are available and kids sort of age out of them if you wait too long. The best intervention is early. My ds was diagnosed at 6 and it was late. You also miss out on going through the VMPAC, etc. because providers just assume you don't need it. Then you end up with all kinds of shoddy holes in your intervention. 

[drjuliadc]

I have a similar situation with my introverted 6 year old and his extroverted 8 year old brother. It isn’t nearly as severe though, and he has grown out of it somewhat. i wouldn’t expect that in your case.  Your son is getting worse, not better. 

To assure you that school probably wouldn’t help, these boys have gone to school since age three and getting him to school is a problem.  He fakes being sick a lot. Boredom with school is a part of it, in his case. My 6 year old learned the F word last year in our highly rated public school kindergarten too, just to make you feel even better about homeschooling.

There is definitely an anxiety issue, but this scenario is the only place I see it in him. My extreme extrovert husband and his family are prone to anxiety, but I didn’t actually see it in him until I was married for over 20 years. It was always there but I missed it.

I’m having some similar issues with his three year old brother, who isn’t an introvert at all, and I don’t see anxiety either. He just doesn’t want to participate in anything that isn’t his idea.  It is reminding me of his 6 year old brother’s lack of participation at the same age.

None of these things have stopped us from getting out of the house, they just refuse to participate when we are there.

 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, drjuliadc said:

My 6 year old learned the F word last year in our highly rated public school kindergarten too, just to make you feel even better about homeschooling.

So you're pulling them out to homeschool?  What's your plan there? I just wondered, since you keep coming back to the boards, LOL.

The water is warm, jump in. They grow up REALLY FAST. You'll never regret the time you spent with them.

[drjuliadc]

On 8/4/2019 at 9:16 AM, PeterPan said:

So you're pulling them out to homeschool?  What's your plan there? I just wondered, since you keep coming back to the boards, LOL

 

I just wanted to give all you homeschoolers one more reason to be glad you are doing it.  He would have picked up that word from my sister sooner or later anyway, haha.

Thanks for being encouraging to think I could do it. I am very impressed with all of you in the trenches.

I might have to homeschool that 6 year old just because he is too far ahead. His older brother enters the gifted program this year for third grade (first year it is available here) and we’ll see how that goes. Another reason I stick around.

I never really leave this board.  Too many good resources listed I would never have heard of on my own. I just don’t post much. I did a little, but I think too far outside of the box to be helpful.  I just upset people.

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by drjuliadc

[kiwik]

On 8/4/2019 at 5:42 PM, PeterPan said:

Not in the US. Early diagnosis all the way. Play Project and play-based therapies are available and kids sort of age out of them if you wait too long. The best intervention is early. My ds was diagnosed at 6 and it was late. You also miss out on going through the VMPAC, etc. because providers just assume you don't need it. Then you end up with all kinds of shoddy holes in your intervention. 

One thing the US does better than NZ.  I have a friend who had some intervention at 4 because he was still mostly using a made up language.  As soon as he started to talk and approached low average he was discharged.  Despite repeated issues he was not given an ASD diagnosis until 12.  I have been trying to get my 10 year old to see a paediatrician since he was 5.  We continually got rejected until 3 months ago when the finally agreed a kid who can't be left alone at activities or attend school at 10 may need looking in to (I was about to max out my credit card to get an assessment done privately but since it would have been with the same person I am not sure they would have done much if I had already been rejected by public).  Another kid I know who CLEARLY had ASD when he was barely out of nappies was sent away several times before getting a diagnosis at 8.  There is no help when they are diagnosed unless they are level 3 anyway but you can get a small weekly payment and some funding for respite care.  Mostly it just let's you know you are not imagining it and in some cases you will get a teacher willing to work with you.  Some kids with ASD may get aides: but I have never met one, mostly they just survive as best they can in a 30 to 90 kid class with a 1 to 30 teacher/student ratio until they are expelled or their parents give up and apply to homeschool them.  There are special needs units once they get to high school but that doesn't help much unless the child is fairly severe and low IQ. It may be my area is particularly bad but I don't think so.

Edited August 6, 2019 by kiwik