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Safety isn't just locking away the knives. If the kids' mental health is unstable, bodies unstable, something is unstable, ANYTHING could be the next weapon. It's about making their bodies safe so they can be worked with. 

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update  the worker came today - she was a lot better prepared mentally . she had obviously done a little bit of research on calming activities etc.  We had a short list of 4 house rules that

Don't know if the dc have experienced trauma, but trauma results (or can result in) dissociation and turning off body signals. So doing body scans and reconnecting with your body, FEELING things, self

Love this idea. Will do this

3 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

We’ve used meds for specific PTSD symptoms, with limited success that has bought us some critical space, particularly with respect to nightmares and insomnia and generally being terrified of sleep.  

We mostly used it in the hospital, just because of other medical issues that complicate things.  Respiratory depression, and overloading his liver are the problems that made us stop.  But I would say that it was useful, and is probably a tool we’ll use again.  

 

  I hope his liver is okay.  

Respiratory depression sounds pretty serious. 

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On 7/31/2019 at 4:10 AM, Melissa in Australia said:

thank you for the link. I found the information helpful

 

https://canfasd.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2016/05/Issue_sheet_-_FASD_and_Nutrition-Final.pdf

Re FASD and nutrition / supplements 

Choline, omega 3 fatty acids, and some vitamins are mentioned as showing promise

 

Maybe check all the B vitamins as many have neurological benefits  ?     “Good” fats to try to give building blocks for myelin repair ?  Choline relates to myelin, and maybe look at Alpha  CDP form of choline which can cross blood brain barrier iirc (anyway that’s one form I take from double wood or a company with name similar to that— also a NOW inositol/choline combo— nowadays one can make one’s own gummies if children need that — that is, if you decide you would want to try some but pills can’t be swallowed)

(btw some of the supplements that may be helpful with FASD may overlap with what may be helpful with chemical issues because there’s a toxic exposure problem in common ... if you are from the Australian WTM family with chemical sensitivity , but that might have been someone else) 

 

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25 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Safety isn't just locking away the knives. If the kids' mental health is unstable, bodies unstable, something is unstable, ANYTHING could be the next weapon. It's about making their bodies safe so they can be worked with. 

 

Were they being used as weapons? 

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On July 30, 2019 at 3:16 AM, Melissa in Australia said:

they were pulling knives out of the ( supposedly childproof) knife draw and running around with them .

Pen asked about whether the knives were being used as weapons, which seems sort of rhetorical to me. You can construe motive or thought process all you want, but it's horribly dangerous and is NOT about the mom locking up or not locking up knives perfectly. That's the issue with that Mate book Pen linked, that it goes back to BLAME THE MOM, which is what the ps did with us. It gets so old.

People who are thinking clearly do not run after other people with knives.

So you can so it's social thinking deficits, impulsivity, boyish play (I don't buy that), boredom, attention seeking, whatever you want. It's still internal to them.

Look, a couple years ago I was describing behavior of my ds, and Pen was like he's going to be a psychopath. It wasn't a very *nice* thing to say, but I actually started getting ANSWERS when I opened my mind up to that, when I thought long and hard about what things really meant, when I read the research on it. We ran genetics and I now have a stable ds who can receive instruction and not harm anyone and has a new internal standard to where he KNOWS that's not acceptable. He couldn't receive any of that instruction before.

So blaming Mom doesn't help, making it sound like it's the worker's fault doesn't help. It's the kids, plain and simple. It's internal to them. When you move from blaming yourself to figuring out what's actually going on, then you can get real answers.

The way our licensed social worker behaviorist put it was "We get the body calm so they can receive the good instruction they're being given."

So I don't know why the boys were running after each other with knives, but stable, calm people don't do that. We can get really flooded with all the problems, all the concerns, and I'm saying that's where I'd start, getting their bodies calm so they can receive the good instruction. Meds, supplements based on genetics, plenty of options. But it has to work. That home worker does not want to work under conditions like that. If she doesn't quit immediately, she may quit soon.

I'm all on board with trauma therapy, trauma-informed interventions, the environment playing a part, the home (poverty, stress, etc.) playing a part. I don't disagree with Mate's book on that. But I'm just saying the FLIP SIDE is blame the mom. It's what happened to us and it obscures the point that kids are themselves, that they are dealing with their internal issues, that not everything is mom's fault.

If these kids have some serious diagnoses going on, do they have a case worker, coordinator, behaviorist, something who is experienced to work at this level? I think talk with your coordinator person and see. In our county the coordinators aren't trained in anything at that level. You have to hire a private behaviorist to get that care. Our county level worker is just ticking boxes for funding and referring. Now they *have* another office in the county that handles more serious stuff. When ds had a growth spurt a while back, we couldn't get him stabilized and we were having some serious discussions. It's kind of hard sometimes to get good help, sigh.

I wish it wasn't that we learn the hard way, but that's how it really is. Op will go through it, figure it out, come to the other side. She'll get banged up, blamed, probably have some fiascos, but she'll get it worked out.

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I think they should not be able to get at the knives, but “brandish” is sometimes used as a very specific legal term (and can get a kid shot dead by police ). Absolutely it should be stopped.

But there is a disconnect between Melissa saying the twins aren’t violent and the image of them (or one of them) “brandishing” knife as a weapon.  I am looking for clarification.

 

tr.v. bran·dishedbran·dish·ingbran·dish·es
To wave or flourish (something, often a weapon) in a menacing, defiant, or excited way. See Synonyms at flourish.
 
 
 
Was there excited waving ?  Or menacing threat?
Or? 
 

Sometimes people only mean holding a knife in a visible way:

 

A screenshot shows a Crocodile Dundee-inspired character brandishing a knife in an outback scene.

PHOTOCrocodile Dundee character brandishing a knife

SUPPLIED: TOURISM AUSTRALIA

 

 

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@PeterPan I am sorry about the response I made to you back when, but from my adoption world perspective what you were describing with your Ds sounded like it could be headed in a really bad direction really fast—and with you yourself potentially in danger.

I’m not getting that same “vibe” from what Melissa has posted.   Whatever was going on it sounded like the situation was within the ability of an older sibling to handle it.  Take away the knife or tell the twin No or however that was done.  

 

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@Melissa in Australia I made an error reporting the choline I use.  It is:

 

Alpha GPC Choline Supplement (Beginner Nootropic for Brain Support, Focus, Memory, Motivation, and Energy) Pharmaceutical Grade, Made in USA (60 Capsules 300mg) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XWQSD7G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_V3YqDbRPK24NR

 

the other is: 

 

 

 

Another possible interesting article on choline/inositol- but not specific to FASD, 

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/integrative-mental-health-care/201709/inositol-and-choline-in-mental-health-care

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57 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

For those people who might find this and not have read anything else about my kid, I should clarify that I have a kid with multiple organ failure.  His liver is healing, there is no permanent damage, but has taken and takes so many meds that increase liver problems that we watch and support it closely.  

His lungs are a mess, but not from psychotropic meds, but they are fragile enough that the tiny contribution from the meds was too much to risk.

So if someone, down the line, is reading this and thinking “Liver and lungs, oh no I am NEVER doing psychotropic meds for my kid.” I would say that if your kid is physically healthy our experience with meds probably doesn’t apply at all.  

 

But you didn’t consider something like NAC which can help some with anxiety in some people and also can be liver supportive as well as somewhat sleep inducing for some people? 

😌 actually it could well be that in hospital context,  One would be limited to pharmaceuticals that the hospital carries and that insurance would cover... even if wishing to use nutraceuticals 

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4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

That's the issue with that Mate book Pen linked, that it goes back to BLAME THE MOM, which is what the ps did with us. It gets so old.

 

I didn’t read it that way at all.  But I know some people on Amazon saw it as “blame the mom.”   

For me... it was as much an epiphany as Bessel Van der  Kolk or in some ways similar yet different to learning about epigenetics... 

Wonderfully helpful personally and as a parent. But... obviously what is meaningful and helpful to one person may be the opposite to the next person , or just hohum nothing much positive or negative 

 

 

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7 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Safety isn't just locking away the knives. If the kids' mental health is unstable, bodies unstable, something is unstable, ANYTHING could be the next weapon. It's about making their bodies safe so they can be worked with. 

I agree safety is always a top priority.

 for the twins they are just so impulsive. they think knives the run and grab them. as they cannot remember how to walk safely with a knife they will dance around. think typical 2 year old behaviour. they are not trying to attack anyone just full of enthusiasm and dancing around. which is not safe.

 that is why the need constant full time close supervision. they are extremely impulsive and unsafe. just like a very active 2 year old would. this very close supervision can be very mentally exhausting for DH and myself as we take turns. it is a full time job for both of us.  that is why we have been funded for a 2 hour break.  I don't think the worker was really prepared for how closely she needs to supervise and how much redirection she needs to do to keep the twins safe. maybe she will not be a good match , maybe she was just trying to assess what would happen if she treated them as normalish 8 year old boys or maybe I failed to convey to her their specific needs. I am hoping she comes back again for another try.- because of our rural location it isn't easy to find a perfect fit 

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7 hours ago, Pen said:

 

https://canfasd.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2016/05/Issue_sheet_-_FASD_and_Nutrition-Final.pdf

Re FASD and nutrition / supplements 

Choline, omega 3 fatty acids, and some vitamins are mentioned as showing promise

 

Maybe check all the B vitamins as many have neurological benefits  ?     “Good” fats to try to give building blocks for myelin repair ?  Choline relates to myelin, and maybe look at Alpha  CDP form of choline which can cross blood brain barrier iirc (anyway that’s one form I take from double wood or a company with name similar to that— also a NOW inositol/choline combo— nowadays one can make one’s own gummies if children need that — that is, if you decide you would want to try some but pills can’t be swallowed)

(btw some of the supplements that may be helpful with FASD may overlap with what may be helpful with chemical issues because there’s a toxic exposure problem in common ... if you are from the Australian WTM family with chemical sensitivity , but that might have been someone else) 

 

we are the family with Multiple Chemical Sensitivities  

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9 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

@Melissa in Australia  I wanted to apologize again, because I feel like I keep pulling this back to the question or “are there kids with FASD or PTSD who are helped by psychotropic meds?” Which is, of course an entirely different question from “Do Melissa’s kids need meds?”, but it must feel like that a little.  None of what I posted is intended to answer the second question,  

no problems. It is always good to rethink things like this

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5 hours ago, Pen said:

@PeterPan I am sorry about the response I made to you back when, but from my adoption world perspective what you were describing with your Ds sounded like it could be headed in a really bad direction really fast—and with you yourself potentially in danger.

I’m not getting that same “vibe” from what Melissa has posted.   Whatever was going on it sounded like the situation was within the ability of an older sibling to handle it.  Take away the knife or tell the twin No or however that was done.  

 

exactly take away the knife and say NO.

 I have found that the twins need an almost constant dialog form whoever is supervising them. yes good choice, no not that. etc. they don't notice you saying it consciously but the do respond and redirect. it is called external regulating

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2 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:


I'd love to hear more about nutraceuticals.  It wasn't right for us at the time we did the meds, but that doesn't mean that it's not a great tool for the future.  I have a huge advantage over many parents of kids with disabilities in that most of my kid's calories come from blended foods that I put in his g-tube, so I never have the question of whether my kid will actually eat something.  

Can I suggest that you make a separate thread on that?  Maybe, it's me, and it doesn't bother Melissa at all, but I feel kind of guilty that I have completely hijacked this thread and we're not really talking about her situation any more, which sounds like a challenging one that deserves it's own conversation!

it doesn't bother me that the thread is changing direction. that is how conversations go 🙂

 

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9 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

Cool!

OK then, @Pen I would love to hear more about nutraceuticals!

 

If there’s a specific question and I notice or am tagged I’d try to answer it.  If it’s something I be looked into or if it relates to my family as well.

There was a past thread about Inositol and related things for anxiety .  There’ve been ones related to B vitamins and PTSD .  Some parents in WTm have various protocols or stacks. 

Liver damage tends to make me think NAC, SAMe, milk thistle, glutathione...  you have to carefully research anything of course to see if it’s contra indicated.

 

like Ashwaganda has had some good showing in PTSD in war veterans, I think.  But isn’t supposed to be taken when there’s an autoimmune problem .  I don’t know how it would be for an autoinflammatory problem like MK has...

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Read up on B vitamins, Inositol, NAC, Ashwaganda ...  theanine (or black tea),  rhodiola.    Which in turn will probably lead you to yet more as you read ...  hope you’ll share back if anything looks interesting .  

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“When safety is established, growth takes place.”

A quote from the Gabor Mate book— though it is dealing more with the *emotional*  level of safety than with the physical level. 

I think it is likely applicable to children like mine or @Melissa in Australia‘s who come from a trauma background  — even if ADHD is not a diagnosis.  

I particularly like it as read by his son Daniel. Because I know that there was a lot of conflict as between Daniel and his parents, so his voice reading, I dunno, makes it seem an extra level of meaning for me

 

In some ways, as I read it, it is also specific recommendations for How to achieve the frequent suggestion of putting the relationship with a child first (first before school before conflict before achievement before sports before extracurriculars).   And some specific suggestions for parental self regulation, even before trying to deal with the child learning to self regulate... 

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26 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

But, as the other thread made clear, the rest of our family probably all has a little bit of PTSD after the events of this spring, and I am far more likely to try something on them! 

 

Meditation, mindfulness could be another good route...

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Well, again, I think he really means emotional safety.  

And I don’t think it means don’t do sports. I think it means don’t put sports or achievement in sports above emotional health.  Try to have parents as the center for stability and emotional regulation...

Or don’t mistake a use of something like math or sports for supplying the needed parenting .  

“When you were a child, Who did you turn to for comfort and security?” Answer should be, if possible, ones parents.  

Math and sports would be better to have to turn to for comfort and security than nothing though.  And better than many other possibilities that kids might turn to .  

It might perhaps mean fewer sports though or less hectic schedules or some way to have some low key and non stressful time together .   So that parents can be the main source of emotional security, with things like sports or math being interests, not life raft.  

 

As I currently understand it.

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I think where it would be an issue would be if there’s stress over trying to get to sports, if it became a conflict to get out door on time with all the gear and food etc, or stressful to manage schedule conflicts and logistics logistics. So that instead of it being a relaxing fun thing to do it became something adding to stress or anxiety...

 Or if math became a stress for MK rather than a source of joy.  

...

or if LEGO or similar became too many pieces or too small for little fingers to handle, and a source of stress rather than fun and brothers cooperative play. 

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19 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

for the twins they are just so impulsive.

That's how I took it, yes. So have you talked with the ped about ADHD meds? Or tried tyrosine? 

19 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

that is why the need constant full time close supervision.

So I don't know FASD, but I'm going to go back to why is it blame the mom, why not put it back on solving the impulsivity? I don't think it's diagnostically correct to say someone has FASD (or ASD or whatever) and therefore doesn't need their ADHD treated. They used to say that, sure.

If there are mental health concerns, like a family history of bipolar or schizophrenia, you could run genetics before trying stimulant meds, definitely absolutely, highly recommend.

 

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18 hours ago, Pen said:

 

 

Meditation, mindfulness could be another good route...

Are these kids getting OT? There are a whole bunch of inter-related options they could be taught for calming strategies and self-awareness, but Pen is very right that these would be a high priority to work on. You can stack them with other strategies like meds/biomedical, where meds give you 50-70% and the mindfulness and self-monitoring strategies (zones of regulation, interoception, how does your motor run, free charts from Amy Laurent, etc.) would give you another 30% and you'd start to have a complete child.

Usually that's an OT, not an untrained worker. However I say that and really the Interoception curriculum is able to be implemented by untrained people, absolutely. If she comes back and if she's game to implement lessons, that would be something to hand her. Or buy it and do it yourself.

The success you have with more challenging kids is because a LOT OF PIECES come together. It's not any one thing. It's not just meds or just cognitive strategies or just environmental controls or just ABA workers or whatever. It all comes together, with one thing putting the dc in a better place to receive the next thing. 

Here's some of the Amy Laurent stuff. It's what I'm getting ready to use with my ds this year.http://amy-laurent.com/my-energy/  Like I said, I personally would start with interoception and body scans and just increasing awareness first. Then you could have some strategies like a freeze/scan, morning check-ins, whatever. You need some common language and awareness, so when they're getting elevated (heart rate, feet moving fast, whatever), they NOTICE or at least realize what you're saying when you say something. And these are strategies that cross diagnoses. It's good for kids who are needing to work on self-monitoring and self-awareness irrespective of diagnosis. When I went to a counselor and got work for my own childhood trauma, what did he have me doing? Body scans. So it's all good.

Here's the link for Kelly Mahler's new online course on Interoception. It would be a place to start https://www.kelly-mahler.com/product/three-steps-to-improving-interoception/

Edited by PeterPan
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Interoception as @PeterPan suggests above could be very helpful, yes.  Once upon a time, a little girl with likely FASD (or maybe a drugs exposure baby, I don’t know) asked me if I’d adopt her.  I think if I’d known about interoception at that time, I might have felt like I could have handled it.  She was still missing basic connection with her own body functioning.  And I didn’t have knowledge then about anything that might help.  I suspect interoception would have. 

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Don't know if the dc have experienced trauma, but trauma results (or can result in) dissociation and turning off body signals. So doing body scans and reconnecting with your body, FEELING things, self-monitoring, is part of healing it. You have books like Levine's foundational work Healing Trauma and Van Der Kolk's summary book of the research. 

So basically it can be good on multiple levels and you won't know till you get it. Can be common language, can be dealing with part of their disability, can be reversing some of the effects of trauma. 

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1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

Don't know if the dc have experienced trauma, but trauma results (or can result in) dissociation and turning off body signals. So doing body scans and reconnecting with your body, FEELING things, self-monitoring, is part of healing it. You have books like Levine's foundational work Healing Trauma and Van Der Kolk's summary book of the research. 

So basically it can be good on multiple levels and you won't know till you get it. Can be common language, can be dealing with part of their disability, can be reversing some of the effects of trauma. 

 

I think it can pretty much be assumed that all adopted children have at least the traumas of separation from bio family plus the reasons for that plus change into new family.  

EMDR probably also worth considering since it would not take a lot of cognitive ability from the dc.  

Or tapping, emotional freedom techniques...

 

Did I link this yet?

for @Melissa in Australia

Alphabreaths: The ABCs of Mindful Breathing https://www.amazon.com/dp/1683641973/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_pLirDbE6CW2S5

 

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3 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

MK is working towards EMDR, on things his therapist thinks he needs in place to be able to tolerate EMDR.

The counselor I used was trained in EMDR but cautious, didn't like it as well, because it has some inherent disadvantages. TRE=Trauma Release Exercises allow the person to release the stored sensations, trauma, pain, etc. without requiring them to re-experience it at all. That's what we did.

 

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Just now, Pen said:

@Melissa in Australia  possibly your twins could do this sort of thing:

https://youtu.be/_mX4JBBIcBk ?

 

Though, we just had a teen anxiety time with little working to relieve it before first Behind the wheel drive time.

tried breathing, tried tapping...   maybe it would be worse yet without?  I dunno.   

I, otoh, am less anxious with the professional behind the wheel session now happening than when I’m in the passenger seat with new teen driver .  

 

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14 hours ago, PeterPan said:

That's how I took it, yes. So have you talked with the ped about ADHD meds? Or tried tyrosine? 

So I don't know FASD, but I'm going to go back to why is it blame the mom, why not put it back on solving the impulsivity? I don't think it's diagnostically correct to say someone has FASD (or ASD or whatever) and therefore doesn't need their ADHD treated. They used to say that, sure.

If there are mental health concerns, like a family history of bipolar or schizophrenia, you could run genetics before trying stimulant meds, definitely absolutely, highly recommend.

 

 

 We ARE doing things to help with the impulsiveness. I mentioned some of them upthread. these include

a brain retraining program developed by a neuropsycologest who we give feedback to daily this was recomended by the peadiatrician who personally works with the neuropsycologest. it is something we are trying BEFORE re-looking at the possibility of medication.

vitamin supplements including fish oil as recommended by the Peadiatrician. 

Occupational Therapist who specializes in YOGA and breathing techniques to help twins with body awareness and calming strategies ( we have been only working with her for 1 month).

External regulation techniques that their Psychologist who has training  in  both play therapy  and trauma specific to children from foster care has educated us in. She comes and gives us fortnightly coaching.

As well as the Speech Pathologist who also has done some  training in Behavior therapy - as so many children with Speech problems also have behaviour problems resulting form their lack of ability to express themselves.

 so it is not like we are sitting back and not doing anything saying Oh well we have X diagnosis and so we won't bother . We have a whole team , we are working on it every waking minute. the whole team were consulted on if they thought meds were the way to go and it was decided by the team not yet. lets try these other things......

 I know you mean well but The mother has not been blamed  I am actually pretty upset that you think I have . 

- she doesn't even know what they have. I know for a fact she refused to sign paperwork for OT and Speech for the twins when they came to live with us as she said there was nothing wrong with them. the reason though that she refused to give permission for angel flights for specialized treatment  for twin 1 to be able to walk was because she wanted to sue the angel flights if the plane crashed.  So glad we have guardianship  now and and can sign medical treatment permission.

I do however in my head blame her for the extreme neglect that the twins suffered- causing them to have significant global developmental delays in all domains,  the torture that they received that resulted in them having huge problems including PTSD, RAD  and the inability to acknowledge physical pain. They were removed from her care because of very valid reasons. they would not be alive if they hadn't been removed.

Edited by Melissa in Australia
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one thing the OT noticed last week when she was here was that twin 2 never seems to breath deeply at all. just shallow shoulder moving breathing - she said that he is therefor stimulating lower brain fight or flight ALL THE TIME - which would explain why he is so anxious and becomes dis-regulated so quickly. She will be making this a priority in the next few sessions.

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10 hours ago, Pen said:

@Melissa in Australia  possibly your twins could do this sort of thing:

https://youtu.be/_mX4JBBIcBk ?

the OT is trying something very similar. so far they cannot sit or lie still long enough for more than the first breath. they can be very silly sometimes in a way that only little boys can be.

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@Melissa in Australia

One Willard type breath that I think didn’t make it into the ALpha breaths book was a “hot cocoa breath”.  A single breath, long and deep, simulating smelling (so breath in through nose not mouth) and savoring (so long and slow) the delicious smell of a cup of hot cocoa.  If they are capable of handling a cup of cocoa without danger, maybe they could start with trying it with the real thing.  

And maybe that’d give a single breath a short , but significant, benefit.  ???

 

If they can’t handle hot cocoa safely, maybe there’d be a less potentially dangerous alternative that would have smell they’d like to use.  (Fresh baked chocolate chip cookie?)   ???

 

maybe practice on such a breath could be interspersed with sipping the cocoa or eating bites of the cookie or whatever 

 

btw giggles and laughter are great, IME, very healing themselves 

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16 hours ago, PeterPan said:

That's how I took it, yes. So have you talked with the ped about ADHD meds? Or tried tyrosine? 

So I don't know FASD, but I'm going to go back to why is it blame the mom, why not put it back on solving the impulsivity? I don't think it's diagnostically correct to say someone has FASD (or ASD or whatever) and therefore doesn't need their ADHD treated. They used to say that, sure.

If there are mental health concerns, like a family history of bipolar or schizophrenia, you could run genetics before trying stimulant meds, definitely absolutely, highly recommend.

 

 

I think you are wrong in  assuming that “impulsive” = “ADHD.”

 

 

No one said don’t work on the impulsivity. 

Tyrosine and Choline are both present in certain foods.  I would feel very comfortable having / serving a lot of foods rich with both. 

I personally would feel much more comfortable supplementing Choline because of the research showing it helpful for FASD. 

Since dopamine and acetylcholine are in some ways opposite , I’d be personally very wary of possibly upping dopamine alone (via Tyrosine) in someone who, due to FASD, is likely low in Choline and acetylcholine. 

It isn’t a genetic thing, it’s what alcohol does structurally to brain

I don’t think running genetics will show the FASD damage any more than running genetics would show a skull fracture. 

But  that doesn’t mean one should not do what is possible to heal the neurons and brain (or other damage), as well as learn how to give external supports like the Morgan Fawcett video indicates he needs to function. 

ETA: And as best I can tell Melissa is working on both. 

Edited by Pen
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24 minutes ago, Pen said:

@Melissa in Australia

One Willard type breath that I think didn’t make it into the ALpha breaths book was a “hot cocoa breath”.  A single breath, long and deep, simulating smelling (so breath in through nose not mouth) and savoring (so long and slow) the delicious smell of a cup of hot cocoa.  If they are capable of handling a cup of cocoa without danger, maybe they could start with trying it with the real thing.  

And maybe that’d give a single breath a short , but significant, benefit.  ???

 

If they can’t handle hot cocoa safely, maybe there’d be a less potentially dangerous alternative that would have smell they’d like to use.  (Fresh baked chocolate chip cookie?)   ???

 

maybe practice on such a breath could be interspersed with sipping the cocoa or eating bites of the cookie or whatever 

 

btw giggles and laughter are great, IME, very healing themselves 

We are trialing many sensory toys that involve breathing. Balloon buddies, a frog that you have to blow and its eyes float, a blowing train with a ball that floats etc. I use them while we are doing school work. as soon as twin 2 starts to make whining  noises I say blow this. It does distract him from his whining, but doesn't help him focus on his school work. ( so every few minutes) Mind you this is the boy who 4 years ago screamed for 6 hours every day. so making whining noises is a huge improvement and shows that progress is happening.

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4 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

I wonder if, by the comment blaming the mother, @PeterPan    was referring not to blaming yourself, or putting the responsibility on yourself to fix the problem.  I think there is a difference between the U.S. and Australia in how we use the word “mother” in most adoption/guardianship cases. 

I don’t think she was questioning that their FAS and PTSD started with their mother’s behavior.

 

 

Ah I see. I must have misunderstood. I thought she was meaning that I was blaming the mother  for taking drugs and alcohol while pregnant and destroying the children's brain, and therefore not doing anything about it 

Sorry PeterPan 😞 my misunderstanding

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1 minute ago, Melissa in Australia said:

We are trialing many sensory toys that involve breathing. Balloon buddies, a frog that you have to blow and its eyes float, a blowing train with a ball that floats etc. I use them while we are doing school work. as soon as twin 2 starts to make whining  noises I say blow this. It does distract him from his whining, but doesn't help him focus on his school work. ( so every few minutes) Mind you this is the boy who 4 years ago screamed for 6 hours every day. so making whining noises is a huge improvement and shows that progress is happening.

 

Sounds like excellent progress!!! Good on you!  

 It’s good to look at the long view to not lose track of positive progress when day to day can seem barely noticeable.  Or IME when some days seem to be worse than the previous one...

Those are all out breaths of blowing—do you have in breaths toys also?

 I think one could blow something even when still only doing shallow breathing for the in breath   ?

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