Help with a science credit

[Random]

My rising senior is on our local volunteer fire department.  Since he joined, he has started to seriously think about firefighting as a career.  As part of his training for the volunteer FD, he has to complete quite a bit of online coursework regarding building structures, fire behavior, blood borne pathogens, wild land fires, communications, fire suppression, vehicle stabilization + extrication, and on and on and on and on.  It will work out to be enough hours for a class credit and I would like to make this his science credit for year 12.  He already has 3 lab sciences (biology, chemistry, physics) all taken online.  What do you all think?  Would that be 'sciency' enough?  Is this a great example of homeschoolers shining?  Or a great example of homeschoolers slacking? 🙂

My goal is for him to be able to attend university if he decides against firefighting.  He hates school with a white hot firey passion, though.  He already qualifies for admission and free tuition at the closest university based on his grades and mediocre ACT scores.  He would attend that university if there is nothing else that he can reasonably find to do with his life.   The closest university is known as a party school and has pretty low admission requirements, so he wouldn't likely have trouble with a fire science credit there.

However, I don't want to close any doors for him.  And I want to think long term about what his transcript might look like to other schools.  Has anyone done a more creative science credit like that before?  How did it work out?

 

[Momto6inIN]

I don't have any BTDT experience with out of the box science credits, so I can't reassure you with authority that it will be OK transcript wise. But if he also has the 3 "normal" lab credits, I can't imagine that a fire science credit would count against him. I think it sounds like a great idea to highlight his interests!

[BusyMom5]

Most places want 3 science, with 2 being lab based, so check the requirements.   I'd say he's fine 😉

[Corraleno]

I think it's a great idea! He already has the 3 main sciences that colleges want to see, and I don't see why Fire Science would be any less respected than Marine Biology or Forensic Science or Astronomy or any of the other "optional" sciences that students can do. A lot of students don't even take a 4th science, since most schools only require 3. My son's 4 science credits were Astronomy, Chemistry, Biology w/A&P, and a DE course on Human Evolution. He's at an excellent OOS flagship with significant merit money, so having a couple of unusual sciences (and no physics) certainly didn't hurt him. I say go for it!

[Aloha2U]

nm

Edited September 24, 2021 by Mom21

[8filltheheart]

Tagging @Lori D.  IIRC, her ds is a forest fire fighter.  She might have some ideas for you.

[Lori D.]

Agreeing with previous posters -- he has 3 lab sciences, he'll be fine for college admission. Yea!

As for how to label his online course work -- yes, call it Fire Science; personally, I would create a separate section for "Fire Science Courses" and list credits there as a sort of "minor". Or possibly create a "Vocational-Technical Courses" section and you can place it there. If it's just the one credit, then that's a tough call -- Fire Science is not a Natural Science, like Biology, Astronomy, Geology, Meteorology, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, etc. It certainly does *touch* on aspects of various Natural Sciences (electricity, blood pathogens, structural engineering, etc.), BUT, the focus and depth is on practical techniques and information needed directly for a job -- which is what vocational-technical credits do. But, it's totally up to you, as his administrator. 😉

As for firefighting as a career: DH worked for our city's fire dept. for 28 years ("urban firefighting), and DS#2 is in the midst of his 3rd season as a "forest firefighter" ("wildland firefighter"). They are completely different jobs -- different skill sets, different duties, different temperaments.

re: urban (city) firefighting
If wanting to head toward urban firefighting, it would be a good idea to get extremely physically fit (running, weight lifting), and esp., get EMT trained in advance, as that gives you an edge going into the application process. Due to the greatly improved sprinkler systems, fire alarm systems, and structural requirements, much of urban firefighting has moved to medical responses (difficulty breathing, falls, medical calls to the elderly, etc.); mental health/homeless calls; drug/alcohol abuse related calls; and auto accidents. Actual fires tend to be few and far between. Just so your DS has a realistic idea of what an urban firefighter really DOES day to day. 😉

 Also, if planning on advancing through the ranks to become an administrative chief, many city fire departments are moving toward requiring a Bachelor degree, or even a Master's degree (often in something like Business Management) to be eligible for those higher positions. One of the young men in our local homeschool group got his Bachelor and then Master's degree in Criminal Justice, and then got onto our city's Fire Dept. He is on the fast track to move up, and I would NOT be surprised if he ended up as the Fire Chief of the whole dept. one day, lol.

One big downside is that most cities have individual fire departments, with non-transferable years of service for pay scale, or benefits. For example: my DH could have served in our city for 20 years, moved to the even bigger city 2 hours away, and would have had to start from scratch in applying, going through the fire academy, and starting again as a new recruit. There are some areas that DO accept transfers (I *think* the whole state of CA is on one system), but for the most part, you would want to be careful to apply to the department in the city where you want to live for the next 20-30 years in order to have a vested pension, and to not have to "start all over again" if you want to move.

re: wildland (forest) firefighting
If wanting to head toward wildland firefighting, then the main things that will help are: getting extremely physically fit (running, esp. at altitude, and with a weighted 45-lb. pack), weight-lifting, lots of hiking in heavy protective boots, and lots of backpacking and tent living in the wilderness. It can also be very helpful to have some experience in specific areas that the Forest Service is looking for. For example, DS#2 had served 9 months with an AmeriCorps partner program doing trail conservation & restoration and had chainsaw training and Widerness First Aid certification from that program, as well as experience of packing in/tent living and working long days for weeks on end.

Also, some college credits can sometimes give you an edge. (DS had 2 Biology-based college courses from his 2.5 years at the community college -- which turned out to be exactly what was helpful/needed for some reason that I can no longer remember.) Another help is if you have military service, which gives you a boost in hiring on, and it is counted as part of your years of service and puts you into a higher salary bracket.

One big downside of wildland firefighting is that it is seasonal -- so you're only working for 5-6 months out of the year, and need to find flexible living and work options for the other half of the year.

Finally, I will add that, like OP-er's DS, our DS#2 also intensely hated school and only went to the community college after graduation because there really weren't any other options. When he left after 2.5 years, he swore he would never go back to college -- BUT, he did just do an intensive 3-week EMT course (worth 6 college credits) this spring, so that he would be a certified EMT and have a better chance at getting on a hot shot crew next fire season (hot shot crews are required to have at least 2 EMTs as part of the crew).

In other words: college is not for everyone, nor is it needed for everyone. And, putting off college does not mean that one can't come back to college at a later time when there is a *reason* for it, and when one is more mentally *prepared* for it.

BEST of luck to your DS, Random! And please let me know if I can answer any questions for you. Warmest regards, Lori D.

ETA -- PS
Since your son is a rising senior, you might see if your local Community College (CC) has a Fire Science program, and if DS can take dual enrollment courses in Fire Science, to be even more prepared to apply for the fire dept. after graduation. Our CC has a program of FREE dual enrollment courses in vocational-tech areas such as Fire Science, and you can knock out a lot of a Fire Science Associate's degree for FREE while still in high school.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Lori D.

[Random]

@Lori D. Thank you so much (as always) for the fantastic information.  There is a lot to think about in what you wrote.  I'm going to forward your response to my son.  My ds is not interested in wildland firefighting.  That is a very popular job in our area, even for teachers.  We live in one of the largest national forests in the country and we have a lot of forest fires!  He's pretty sure he's more interested in urban firefighting.

That was very helpful info about doing more EMT work than fire suppression.  There is a community college about an hour away (the closest one) that has fire science courses and EMT courses.  Our public school only does free DE at the CC if you're a full time student, and only for a few selected programs/classes.  I'm also surprised to hear that promotions might potentially go better if you have a degree.  I'll chat with him about these things soon as possible.

I feel much better about having fire science as a science course on his transcript.  He has welding and construction already as vocational courses.  Did your son seriously take SIX credit hours in 3 weeks?!  Whoa.  Intensive is the right classification.

It's so nice to have my friends to talk to about this stuff.  Ha!  🙂

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, Random said:

My ds is not interested in wildland firefighting...   He's pretty sure he's more interested in urban firefighting... I'm also surprised to hear that promotions might potentially go better if you have a degree...

That's vey helpful for your DS to know -- helps him focus on urban, but also to look at "related" or somewhat similar jobs.

re: promotions & a degree
A degree really only is needed for getting above the ranks of the "blue shirts" who work 24-hour shifts and respond to calls -- firefighter, engineer, paramedic, inspector, captain, battalion chief. It's the promoting to being a "white shirt" -- 8-hour day administrative chief or overall department fire chief -- where a degree is desired or needed. Most people on a fire department don't want to go beyond the 24-hour shifts and actually responding to calls.

However, sometimes a 1-year certificate or a 2-year Associate degree in Fire Science (esp. if it includes EMT certification) can really help you stand out from the pack for hiring.
 

1 hour ago, Random said:

... I feel much better about having fire science as a science course on his transcript.  He has welding and construction already as vocational courses...

Oh, those are SUPER things to have on his transcript and as part of his experience! You can definitely create a special subject heading for all 3 of those classes, and any other vo-tech types of courses he does this coming year.

Another job field to consider might be welding, esp if DS builds on his vo-tech welding course and gets his welder certification -- right now in some parts of the country, they are so short on welders, he can earn up to $70,000/year! He might also be interested in an apprenticeship and become an electrician -- the son of a friend just started his apprenticeship, and he "earns while he learns" -- you work full time and are paid a salary and benefits, and 2-3 evenings a week you take classes, and as you complete/pass classes, you move up in salary. At the end of 5 years, you are certified and can go anywhere and earn a good wage.

You and DS might have fun exploring the Occupational Outlook Handbook -- you can set up those search fields to look for jobs that require only on-the-job training, and are growing fields, or look at jobs in certain salary levels, etc. That can sometimes give you ideas for jobs of possible interest.

Also, you can learn about specific jobs, and also click on the link for "similar occupations" for more ideas -- here are firefighter, welder, and electrician, just for fun.
 

1 hour ago, Random said:

... Did your son seriously take SIX credit hours in 3 weeks?!  Whoa.  Intensive is the right classification.

Yes, it was *very* intensive -- about 10 hours/day, 5 days/week for 3.5 weeks, plus two 8-hour clinical shifts at a nearby hospital emergency room. But the program also has an incredibly high pass rate for the national EMT certification test -- over 95%! It is the Nols Wilderness EMT program. An amazing coincidence for DS#2 -- that EMT program cost almost exactly the same amount of the AmeriCorps tuition credit that DS#2 earned for his 9 month commitment with ACE! We are SUPER proud of him, because academic/college studies is NOT this DS's strength -- it helps tremendously that he saw a clear *purpose* for doing it.

BEST of luck to you and DS as you explore, discuss, and enjoy his senior year of homeschooling! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Lori D.

[Melissa B]

We have a magnet high school where students train to become firefighters. They title the class: Health Science & Firefighting I. The following year the students take Health Science & Firefighting II. 

[Random]

@Lori D. Thank you again for so much to think about.  I've encouraged ds to go in to welding, actually.  Such good money, high demand.  Our high school has an amazing instructor.  It's a possibility. 

@Melissa B I love that course title!  I am going to use it!

[Lori D.]

16 minutes ago, Random said:

@Lori D. Thank you again for so much to think about.  I've encouraged ds to go in to welding, actually.  Such good money, high demand.  Our high school has an amazing instructor.  It's a possibility...

At the least, it can make a useful "fall-back" job until DS knows what he wants to do. Or even a side job.

Most of the firefighters on our city dept. have some sort of flexible or out-of-the-home side job that they do on their longer breaks off each month. (Since they work 24-hour shifts, they get the following 24-hour day off, and they do that cycle for several shifts, and then get several days in a row off -- it usually averages out to working something like ten 24-hour shifts per month. So that can give them time on the days off for side jobs.)

[Random]

1 hour ago, Lori D. said:

At the least, it can make a useful "fall-back" job until DS knows what he wants to do. Or even a side job.

Most of the firefighters on our city dept. have some sort of flexible or out-of-the-home side job that they do on their longer breaks off each month. (Since they work 24-hour shifts, they get the following 24-hour day off, and they do that cycle for several shifts, and then get several days in a row off -- it usually averages out to working something like ten 24-hour shifts per month. So that can give them time on the days off for side jobs.)

Great points.  He talked about being able to work another job as a firefighter, but I think he'd be far too exhausted.  There's a reason they "only" work that much, right?  But that would be his call to make, of course.  DS currently works for a construction company.  DH is a builder (retired and moved on to something else) and has taught our kids everything he knows so that they can at least build their own homes one day. 

I feel compelled to say that when I type out the things ds can do and likes to do and wants to do and has done, it makes me feel a lot better about his complete rejection of the academic/classical education I dreamed up for him 12 years ago.