Why is it “morally” wrong...

[gardenmom5]

8 minutes ago, Margaret in CO said:

I think it's just a joke. That said, being able to drive a manual is a useful skill. I listened to a friend bemoan the fact that his two boys couldn't get a summer job with the county. Well, they couldn't drive a stick, couldn't drive a split rear, couldn't drive a PTO, couldn't back up a trailer, couldn't drive a loader, and didn't have their CDL, Class B. They weren't much use to the county. I went to the rodeo grounds yesterday for something--I had no idea that my youngest could drive a hi-lift! She's quite handy on a skid-steer too. 

Can't get a job as a valet either.   Those kids can make good money if you include tips.

[KungFuPanda]

In general, I think it's better to have a skill than not.  Still, it's no reason to insult anyone when they most likely have a comparable skill that you don't.  Honestly, I'm more concerned that so many young people have no map reading skills.  It's getting harder and harder to find cars with manual transmissions, so that's less of an issue.  What do these kids do if their phone dies and they're not carrying a map and don't know how to read it if they do? I've heard some complain "Google took me to X instead of Y," and it's usually a situation that could have been avoided if they reality checked the on-screen map before hitting GO and driving off.  I haven't had many issues where I live, but when I visit my mom, the coverage is sketchy and the directions aren't the most reliable.  I think the weird way the roads were developed there isn't ideal for the google algorithms. 

[PrincessMommy]

7 hours ago, JanOH said:

I don't think it's anything to do with morality.  It's just funny.  If you know how to drive a stick you smile.  Memes are suppose to be light-hearted.  No reason for offense.  There's also an ad campaign that uses the anti-Theft phrase.  I can't remember what it's advertising at the moment.

I wish we had a stick so I could teach my kids but we don't.  My 25 yodd bought a stick shift last year and had a time learning to drive it!  She was ready to trade it in, left it sit at our house for a few weeks because she was so frustrated then made up her mind to learn and made fast progress. 

I agree.  I don't understand what morality has to do with driving a stick or not. 

And the truth is; the meme about it being Anti-theft is TRUE.  My daughter has a friend whose car was hijacked in Baltimore.  Actually, attempted hijacked because it was a manual transmission and the guy couldn't figure it out... he just got out and fled.  She laughed at him and then drove away.  

It's a great story, but I don't think that means she's morally better than someone just because she drives a stick.

 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Jenny in Florida said:

I keep thinking about this, and here's where I am coming from on it:

I don't consider it a "moral failing" not to be able to drive a stick shift. I am, however, at the very least bemused by the general lack of interest/ability I see in a lot of people (of varying ages) in being able to do things for themselves or to learn to do so. In my heart of hearts, I think I am concerned or unhappy about what seems to me to be an increasing reliance on some combination of technology and "professionals" to do what I consider normal life stuff. And one way to cope with those feelings is to use humor.

My response when I bump up against something I don't know how to do is to figure out how to do it, when possible. I pretty much walk into every situation saying some variation of, "It can't be that hard, right?" And I have been happy to see that both of my kids seem to have absorbed that attitude and to enjoy adding new skills to their repertoires as they move about the world. I'm proud to have raised young adults who are coping and resilient and able to handle whatever life throws at them. 

I think plenty of people have the attitude that they can learn something if they need to. But given that 2% of cars of manual, they don't think learning to drive stick falls into that category as particularly useful, anymore than they think they should learn how to shear a sheep just in case they ever need to. It's just not something they consider worth seeking out - I mean, for me to learn to drive stick I'd have to hunt down a car to learn on, etc as we don't own a stick shift, my family has never owned a stick shift since I've been driving, none of my friends had a stick shift - and it's not a useful enough skill to justify seeking out the proper car and putting gin the time, just like i feel no need to seek out a sheep rancher to learn to shear wool, just in case I ever need to. Not a lack of natural curiosity or lack of a can do attitude, just not a good use of my limited time and means. 

And I say that as someone who has recently learned to do a lot of new things, including renting and using a gas powered tiller, learning to use and maintain manual lawn tools, etc. But I had a reason to want to learn those things. I have no reason in my life I want to learn to drive stick. Just different interests/priorities/etc. 

Now, I DO feel people should know how to change a tire as flat tires happen more often than needing to drive a stick, and it seems like roadside assistance can take forever. 

[chiguirre]

I taught dh to drive a stick shift on a rental in Costa Rica. He did not strip the gears! Then he decided to buy a stick for his commute. That lasted for one car. It's no fun to sit at red lights or in stop and go traffic holding down the clutch.

I personally can't wait for self-driving cars.

[Corraleno]

3 hours ago, Jenny in Florida said:

Now, see, I don't think that stereotype is any more helpful or kind-hearted than the one that Garga is calling out.

My point was just that as technology advances, different people develop different skillsets, and many people who snicker about the things young people can't do, can't do other things that are second nature to those same young people. I'm a boomer myself, and I don't use my phone for much besides texting and an occasional phone call, so when I need to do something I've never done before I either look it up or ask DD. And she asks me how to do things that I know how to do and she doesn't.

But I don't snicker about her cluelessness when it comes to sewing a hem while ignoring my own cluelessness about changing some obscure setting on my phone, which is what bugs me about all the "millennials are so clueless/useless/entitled" memes.

 

2 hours ago, Jenny in Florida said:

I don't consider it a "moral failing" not to be able to drive a stick shift. I am, however, at the very least bemused by the general lack of interest/ability I see in a lot of people (of varying ages) in being able to do things for themselves or to learn to do so. In my heart of hearts, I think I am concerned or unhappy about what seems to me to be an increasing reliance on some combination of technology and "professionals" to do what I consider normal life stuff. And one way to cope with those feelings is to use humor.

 

Different people have different ideas about what constitutes "normal life stuff" though, and I think there's a tendency for people to assume that the things they consider "normal life stuff" are things that everyone else should consider "normal life stuff" too. I have zero interest in learning how to change my own oil or swap out my own plumbing or electrical fixtures, although those are undoubtedly useful skills, and I do know people who consider those simple things that anyone should be able to do. But I can do a professional-level paint job quickly and accurately without taping, I can sand and refinish wood floors to a very high standard, and I've made fully-lined pleated drapes from scratch, all things that many other people would hire professionals to do. Different people naturally develop different skillsets in order to do the specific things that they want, or need, to do, and I don't see anything wrong with people deciding that they would rather hire out some tasks that other people consider "normal life stuff."

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by Corraleno

[kiwik]

I am confused.  The difference between driving an automatic and a stick shift is not huge.  You just have to push down the clutch and move a stick.  It takes about 5 minutes to learn and a bit longer to get smooth.  It is not like being able to fly an aeroplane but not a helicopter.  If you can drive an automatic you should be able to get the hang of a stick shift quick enough for it to not be a problem.  Unless in the US there are different licences or you have a physical issue I don't see why it is a big deal.

[Laura Corin]

7 hours ago, LMD said:

I just went looking for stats in Aus and we're around about 9/10 new cars autos, 1/10 new cars manual.

In the UK 4/10 new cars are automatics, but that proportion is rising fast.

[J-rap]

I haven't interpreted it as being a moral failing.  I do think it's just a funny little pride thing that people who can drive a stick shift have.  And I'll admit, I even have it just a tiny bit, because I -- like several others on here -- first learned to drive on a stick-shift. 🙂   It's fun to be able to offer to drive a car that's not my own that happens to be a stick shift knowing that I'm the only one who can actually drive it -- haha.   But of course, it's just a dumb pride thing, and why would you even learn to drive one if you didn't have to or never had an opportunity to do so.

[Rosie_0801]

I pulled the moral superiority card on my millennial friend, for the fun of getting him riled up a bit. He obliged by grumbling darkly, but he wanted to learn to drive one, so I taught him. He was looking to enter a trade, so a manual license has given him opportunities he wouldn't have had otherwise. He's promised to teach dd and I to weld in return. When I went to school, it was all the old fashioned soldering irons and my father wouldn't teach me to weld. It'll be fun. More worrying than the bloke being unable to drive manual was that he'd never driven on a dirt road or a freeway before.

I like to drive manual. I get bored driving auto. Apparently autos are better up on Cape York though, which is good to know in case I ever win the lottery and can afford to drive up there.

[LMD]

5 hours ago, Jenny in Florida said:

I keep thinking about this, and here's where I am coming from on it:

I don't consider it a "moral failing" not to be able to drive a stick shift. I am, however, at the very least bemused by the general lack of interest/ability I see in a lot of people (of varying ages) in being able to do things for themselves or to learn to do so. In my heart of hearts, I think I am concerned or unhappy about what seems to me to be an increasing reliance on some combination of technology and "professionals" to do what I consider normal life stuff. And one way to cope with those feelings is to use humor.

My response when I bump up against something I don't know how to do is to figure out how to do it, when possible. I pretty much walk into every situation saying some variation of, "It can't be that hard, right?" And I have been happy to see that both of my kids seem to have absorbed that attitude and to enjoy adding new skills to their repertoires as they move about the world. I'm proud to have raised young adults who are coping and resilient and able to handle whatever life throws at them. 

 

I agree and well said. My kids aren't grown yet, but my dh is one of the most all round capable people I've ever met. His father is another one.

[CAJinBE]

I want my girls to learn on stick just because it is useful to know both. Their drivers license here will indicate that they can drive stick. As said above many rental cars are stick shift and it just adds to your flexibility to get the car you want in high season if you are traveling in Europe. We always need a big car with four people and four suitcases so I wouldn't want to limit our choices even further by having to get an automatic. I currently drive a stick. I didn't drive for 8 weeks after back surgery because it is just harder to work both legs and both arms after surgery. My next car will be automatic for that reason, just in case. Again, I think it's good to have flexibility. I saw that meme and just thought it was funny. It reminded me of something I had seen earlier in a school situation where the kids couldn't read a clock with hands. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by CAJinBE

[Scarlett]

8 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I think plenty of people have the attitude that they can learn something if they need to. But given that 2% of cars of manual, they don't think learning to drive stick falls into that category as particularly useful, anymore than they think they should learn how to shear a sheep just in case they ever need to. It's just not something they consider worth seeking out - I mean, for me to learn to drive stick I'd have to hunt down a car to learn on, etc as we don't own a stick shift, my family has never owned a stick shift since I've been driving, none of my friends had a stick shift - and it's not a useful enough skill to justify seeking out the proper car and putting gin the time, just like i feel no need to seek out a sheep rancher to learn to shear wool, just in case I ever need to. Not a lack of natural curiosity or lack of a can do attitude, just not a good use of my limited time and means. 

And I say that as someone who has recently learned to do a lot of new things, including renting and using a gas powered tiller, learning to use and maintain manual lawn tools, etc. But I had a reason to want to learn those things. I have no reason in my life I want to learn to drive stick. Just different interests/priorities/etc. 

Now, I DO feel people should know how to change a tire as flat tires happen more often than needing to drive a stick, and it seems like roadside assistance can take forever. 

I agree, but it still annoys me that my ds19 has zero interest in learning to drive a manual, even though I own one.  AND he works for a body shop where he sometimes needs to pull a car in or out that is manual and then his co workers make light hearted fun of him and he just shrugs.  

But I also can’t change a tire.  I do wish I had learned.  I didn’t have a dad though.....and not sure if my mom could change one either.  

[marbel]

15 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I think plenty of people have the attitude that they can learn something if they need to. But given that 2% of cars of manual, they don't think learning to drive stick falls into that category as particularly useful, anymore than they think they should learn how to shear a sheep just in case they ever need to. It's just not something they consider worth seeking out - I mean, for me to learn to drive stick I'd have to hunt down a car to learn on, etc as we don't own a stick shift, my family has never owned a stick shift since I've been driving, none of my friends had a stick shift - and it's not a useful enough skill to justify seeking out the proper car and putting gin the time, just like i feel no need to seek out a sheep rancher to learn to shear wool, just in case I ever need to. Not a lack of natural curiosity or lack of a can do attitude, just not a good use of my limited time and means. 

<snip>

Right.  For most people it's not like learning to hem a pair of trousers or learn how to paint a room. 

I can think of 2 people I know who drive manual transmission cars. Neither of them are people I would feel comfortable asking if I could borrow their car to give my kids a lesson in driving (also they live more than 200 miles from me). I suppose it might be possible to rent a car for a day or two to learn, and then - what?  Unless a trip to a stick-heavy country was imminent, what's the point if no one I/my kids know drives one anyway?   And if the statistics are correct, most people in the US are in the same position - no manual transmission car to learn on.

I think it's a stretch to say it's part of a bigger problem of people not wanting to learn new things. I see people all around me learning new things, that are useful and/or enjoyable to them and that they will have an opportunity to actually do once they learn it.

Because of the people I know who share that meme and make comments about it, I don't think it's a cute/funny thing. I think it's a nasty dig at 'these kids today.' 

That said, if when we were looking for our last car we had found a stick that was affordable and in the type of car we needed, we'd have bought it. I still wouldn't think those memes are funny.

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by marbel

[ktgrok]

6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I agree, but it still annoys me that my ds19 has zero interest in learning to drive a manual, even though I own one.  AND he works for a body shop where he sometimes needs to pull a car in or out that is manual and then his co workers make light hearted fun of him and he just shrugs.  

But I also can’t change a tire.  I do wish I had learned.  I didn’t have a dad though.....and not sure if my mom could change one either.  

See in that case I do agree he should learn, since it effects his job. And if he worked on a sheep ranch where they sometimes needed him to help shear sheep, he should learn that. I know how to express a dog's anal glands because I worked in a vet office, but that doesn't mean I think people who have never owned a dog should learn "just in case", lol. 

And you can watch a youtube video today and learn to change a tire, if you want 🙂  My dad did teach me, but I taught my son. The only issue is if the lug nuts are on too tight for me physically to move them, although the one time that happened a nice truck driver pulled over and helped. 

[Jenny in Florida]

8 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Different people have different ideas about what constitutes "normal life stuff" though, and I think there's a tendency for people to assume that the things they consider "normal life stuff" are things that everyone else should consider "normal life stuff" too. I have zero interest in learning how to change my own oil or swap out my own plumbing or electrical fixtures, although those are undoubtedly useful skills, and I do know people who consider those simple things that anyone should be able to do. But I can do a professional-level paint job quickly and accurately without taping, I can sand and refinish wood floors to a very high standard, and I've made fully-lined pleated drapes from scratch, all things that many other people would hire professionals to do. Different people naturally develop different skillsets in order to do the specific things that they want, or need, to do, and I don't see anything wrong with people deciding that they would rather hire out some tasks that other people consider "normal life stuff."

 

 

Right, my whole point was that, for me, personally, the whole manual transmission thing is sort of representative of the attitude of helplessness that it seems to me is increasing. It's not about the specific skill.

For example, yes, my own kids and many other young adults with whom I interact are quick with their typing thumbs on their cell phones and can shoot much better selfies than I can; however, the majority have no clue how a computer actually works. The majority don't do any coding, for example. They don't know what's inside the cell phone, can't even replace a battery. 

They know how to use technology, but they don't understand it any better than I do. And, therefore, when something goes wrong, they are simply stuck.

[chiguirre]

1 hour ago, Jenny in Florida said:

 

For example, yes, my own kids and many other young adults with whom I interact are quick with their typing thumbs on their cell phones and can shoot much better selfies than I can; however, the majority have no clue how a computer actually works. The majority don't do any coding, for example. They don't know what's inside the cell phone, can't even replace a battery. 

They know how to use technology, but they don't understand it any better than I do. And, therefore, when something goes wrong, they are simply stuck.

I don't think the battery example is fair. If you have an iPhone, you invalidate your warranty if you try to change the battery yourself and the back doesn't pop off easily. If you have an android, it's super easy to change to take out the battery and put the phone back together. But that's on Apple, not the Millenials (or Gen Xers or Boomers).

I'm surprised that most kids haven't done at least a bit of coding. It was a (popular) elective even back in the 80s. Are there really that many kids who don't fool around with Scratch or programming in Minecraft or playing with a Raspberry Pi? It's not professional coding, but it does teach the basics.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

In general, I think it's better to have a skill than not.  Still, it's no reason to insult anyone when they most likely have a comparable skill that you don't.  Honestly, I'm more concerned that so many young people have no map reading skills.  It's getting harder and harder to find cars with manual transmissions, so that's less of an issue.  What do these kids do if their phone dies and they're not carrying a map and don't know how to read it if they do? I've heard some complain "Google took me to X instead of Y," and it's usually a situation that could have been avoided if they reality checked the on-screen map before hitting GO and driving off.  I haven't had many issues where I live, but when I visit my mom, the coverage is sketchy and the directions aren't the most reliable.  I think the weird way the roads were developed there isn't ideal for the google algorithms. 

My DD was supposed to meet at a specific airport point this past weekend. She didn’t know where it was, and instead of looking for the airport map, she asked Siri. I can’t say I knew that iPhones knew internal airport geography...

 

On a manual, when I did drivers ed, the school had both. After I did a couple of lessons in an automatic, the instructor decided that he wasn’t even going to try to teach me on a manual-between coordination issues and poor depth perception, I need all the help I can get! I did have to show I could change a tire before He’d sign off for me to get my license, but every time I have had a flat, some Good Samaritan has taken over about as soon as I get the equipment and spare out of the trunk. 

DD is pinning her hopes on self-driving cars.  I told her that maybe it would work for her kids, but given that we buy a new car about every 20 years or so, she was stuck learning how to drive 🙂

[ktgrok]

I do agree that there is a lack of emphasis in our modern education system/life on doing things yourself, but don't think manual transmission driving is a good example. Also, the fact is, most of the reason that do it yourself died off was that the trade of time/money changed. With two parents working more than full time jobs, people often working evenings and weekends on projects after they come home, etc it doesn't make sense to spend the time learning and doing it versus paying someone else. My DH does know how to change his own oil, for example, and until recently he did so, because it saved money. But lately it isn't a good use of his time, so he has someone do it for him, so he can spend his time doing other things that mean more to him. 

I actually find most young people have a great "can do" attitude about learning new things, and with youtube the options for self education are endless. But maybe that's just my circle of people?

[Scarlett]

27 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Last month, DH and I were taking the kids to the air show, which was at the main airport.  We pulled out of the driveway 

DH-So, you know how to get where we are going?

me-yeah, the airport, you have been there before.

DH-I don't know how to get to the airport.

me-huh?  You fly out of this airport multiple times a year.  How do you not know how to get to the airport?

DH-I just go where google tells me too.

me-ummm

Now, we have only lived here for about a year, but in that time, he's flown out of this airport about 3 or 4 times, plus, he's been flying out of this airport for a total of 5 years.  I genuinely don't understand how he has absolutely no idea where the airport is or any inkling of how to get there from our house.  He has always been directionally challenged, even before google maps existed, but it seems even worse now.  

My son relies on google maps waaaay too much.  A few weeks his boss was VERY annoyed with him because boss said I am at XYZ store , meet me  at Lowe’s.  Instead of thinking about which Lowe’s was likely given the proximity of it to XYZ store he went to the Lowe’s he thought for sure he must mean...and it was 15 minutes in the wrong direction,

 

[LuvToRead]

25 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Women are ignorant about each other’s cycles, too. Well, they can be. I didn’t know til one day in high school that not everyone bleeds as many days. My friend didn’t know, either and was like your period is still going on? I thought wait, yours are shorter?? 

I don’t know if I’m some sort of anomaly but no one seems to ever mention one of my period symptoms. It’s not always listed online, either. Worse than cramping for me (and I don’t always cramp) is a throbbing in my vulva that occurs sometimes. It’s just during a heavy flow. It makes standing unbearable sometimes. 

I must have missed a section in my “What to Expect...” book because I was completely blindsided by post partum contractions. 

I guess that’s why I have a hard time giving men a hard time about certain details. Women don’t always know things about the female body. 

I have this too (or had before my ablation),  It was just on the 1st day and the throbbing stopped if I walked or sat down.  It only throbbed if I was standing still.  It didn't start until I had my oldest and it quit after my ablation. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by LuvToRead

[cintinative]

My husband had a stick until we sold it last year.  I never learned to drive stick so I never drove his car.  It was inconvenient at times, but I was just not motivated to learn it. 

I think my husband thinks it is more fun to drive a manual. His car was the type some people use for sport car racing (SCCA).

If I were to hazard a guess, there is a sort of pride that comes with knowing how to drive a manual, and now that manuals are not as common for everyday drivers, that attitude is perhaps increasing? 

Confession: when I was first learning to drive my dad tried to teach me on a manual and decided the tires would burn out before I learned it, so they got an automatic for my brother and I to drive. LOL.  

 

[cintinative]

16 hours ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

I think it’s just a way for one group to mock another.  I learned to drive with a stick shift in an ancient, yet beautiful Dodge Omni, though my teenage dream was to have a Gremlin. I worked at Foley’s department store in a Houston mall; I hated, hated, hated to wear pantyhose. My claim to fame back then was the ability to exit the parking lot, stop at the intersection, and remove my hose by the time the light turned green.

 

My driver's ed car was an Omni (but manual) and my grandmother had a Gremlin.  😃

[LuvToRead]

11 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Oh interesting. Yeah it affects me if I’m trying to do a task like wash dishes at the sink where my legs are pretty stationary or maybe when I was a cashier and standing for hours at the register. 

I  mentioned it to my Dr and he said it could be endometriosis, but I started seeing another Dr and never mentioned it again.

[LuvToRead]

18 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I read about that, but I thought you had to have a lot of other symptoms for that. I only have this issue specifically on a heavy day of my cycle. 

I never followed up, so I am not sure.  It stopped after my ablation.  

[SKL]

I don't drive a stick, but I am sure I could learn pretty fast if there was a reason to.

I have had many situations in life where I decided to figure things out rather than call for help or give up.  I figured out how to play several instruments, operate an industrial towmotor, unjam factory machines, fix a computer I dropped, bring a vacuum cleaner back to life, use all sorts of software, find my way home when lost, and I could go on all day.  I'm sure you all could as well.  🙂

I do try to force my kids to persevere and try to get through stuff that seems strange and difficult.  I also directly teach them lots of things.  I did show them how to change a tire, though that was when they were preschoolers and they probably don't remember.  (Since then, whenever I got a flat I was in a hurry and did not have time to change it with them watching.)  This summer we will learn how to fix bicycles (among other things).  Granted, I learned this a lot younger than 12, but then, I had older brothers and whole summers free to tinker.  Also, my kids really aren't interested.  Maybe that is because they don't have a dad to get them excited about mechanical stuff.  I mean I only do it when I have to - most often it involves plunging a clogged toilet or other unexciting activity.  😛  Though one of mine does assemble her own furniture etc.  The other is better than many adults (including me) at cosmetology.  I guess it's all good for something.  😛

[City Mouse]

The whole point of social media seems to be to make fun of or degrade people for one reason or another.

Aside from that, I first learned to drive on an automatic, then form some reason my parents decided to buy only cars with manual transmissions, and they were Volkswagens which seemed to be more difficult to drive any way. My dad had no patience in teaching me to drive the manual transmission and after one particularly traumatic driving lesson we both gave up. I quit driving for a while. Jump ahead a couple of years and I had a boy friend (now DH) that had vehicles with manual transmissions. He worked with me, and I learned to drive his truck well enough to drive it in an emergency. When we had our first kid, that truck got too small, so we sold it and only had automatics for 20+ years. Our most recently purchased used car does have a manual transmission. We really needed a car, Ned had a very short window to pick one, we live very rural with not a lot of choices, and wanted something with really good gas mileage. It wasn’t that hard to go back to a manual, but I will admit that it took me several months of driving it regularly to get pretty smooth most of the time. Where I learned to drive was mostly flat and we live near the mountains now, so the hills were quite challenging at first, but I adjusted.

I took it on a long road trip this summer, and I admit that long traffic jams on the interstate are much more tiring with a manual. I joked with my DS that will end up like the guy on the insurance commercial with the “custom calves”

[mom2scouts]

Pre-kids, I drove a sports car with a stick shift. It took me a while to learn, but I really wanted to drive that car. I have to admit, it was SUPER fun to drive and shifting was a big part of that. Now I wouldn't want to have to drive a stick in my daily commutes with all the traffic I encounter (unless maybe I could have a fun sports car again) and appreciate the ease of an automatic. I think the meme is just a joke about a skill that more older people have, although two of my adult sons drive cars with a stick shift.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Women are ignorant about each other’s cycles, too. Well, they can be. I didn’t know til one day in high school that not everyone bleeds as many days. My friend didn’t know, either and was like your period is still going on? I thought wait, yours are shorter?? 

I don’t know if I’m some sort of anomaly but no one seems to ever mention one of my period symptoms. It’s not always listed online, either. Worse than cramping for me (and I don’t always cramp) is a throbbing in my vulva that occurs sometimes. It’s just during a heavy flow. It makes standing unbearable sometimes. 

I must have missed a section in my “What to Expect...” book because I was completely blindsided by post partum contractions. 

I guess that’s why I have a hard time giving men a hard time about certain details. Women don’t always know things about the female body. 

I had something like that years ago. I believe it was related to vericose veins. I also had severe v*ginal pain during pregnancy because of vericose veins IN my v*gina. Bah! 

And yeah, nobody ever said that was something that could happen. 

[Tree Frog]

10 hours ago, SKL said:

I don't drive a stick, but I am sure I could learn pretty fast if there was a reason to.

I have had many situations in life where I decided to figure things out rather than call for help or give up.  I figured out how to play several instruments, operate an industrial towmotor, unjam factory machines, fix a computer I dropped, bring a vacuum cleaner back to life, use all sorts of software, find my way home when lost, and I could go on all day.  I'm sure you all could as well.  🙂

I do try to force my kids to persevere and try to get through stuff that seems strange and difficult.  I also directly teach them lots of things.  I did show them how to change a tire, though that was when they were preschoolers and they probably don't remember.  (Since then, whenever I got a flat I was in a hurry and did not have time to change it with them watching.)  This summer we will learn how to fix bicycles (among other things).  Granted, I learned this a lot younger than 12, but then, I had older brothers and whole summers free to tinker.  Also, my kids really aren't interested.  Maybe that is because they don't have a dad to get them excited about mechanical stuff.  I mean I only do it when I have to - most often it involves plunging a clogged toilet or other unexciting activity.  😛  Though one of mine does assemble her own furniture etc.  The other is better than many adults (including me) at cosmetology.  I guess it's all good for something.  😛

My kids all know how to change a tire. Last week we had a blow out after hitting a big rock on the road. The person behind us who also hit the rock had a flat, too. I got started changing mine and dd went to help the young lady change her tire. (She ended up not actually getting started, just pulled out the jack. She said there was some sort of wire over the tire and since the car was new, dd didn't know what it was and didn't want to cause any damage.) That young lady had no idea where the spare was or what to do; she hadn't even put on her flashers. I suggested she find her owner's manual and get started, but she just waited for roadside assistance. There was a good Samaritan who stopped to help, so he and I got my tire changed, then he went to help the young lady. We had both tires changed before roadside assistance arrived.  

The experience my kids have had with plumbing has had to do with long hair or beard shavings in the sink or shower drains. All of their sinks and two showers have been backed up due to hair or make up (I have no idea how make up can clog the drain. DD doesn't wear that much.), so the kids have learned how to clean the drains manually. All the drains smelled horribly when they opened them up, so all 3 kids now take precautions to not get so much hair in the drain. DS thought his beard trimmings would just go down the drain (I would've thought so, too), but they just got stuck in the trap. They're all more careful now and use the drain screens to collect the hair.

Edited July 18, 2019 by wilrunner

[frogger]

I really want my kids to learn to drive a manual but it's not important enough for me to buy another car. 

I would also like them to learn to back up a trailer. I confess, though I have no sense of pride in driving a manual when I back up a trailer into the perfect parking position that pride sneaks in. 

 

Scarlett, you should try to learn to change a tire it's not hard but it's good to know some info that you might not guess like getting the nuts tightened evenly. My children must all learn to change a tire because we live in a place where there is no cell reception on many highways. Not the ones right near my house but we drive around Alaska a lot and who wants to wait for help to show up from 200 miles away.

Map reading- all my kids know how to do this but I think the youngest still needs to learn topo maps.

[Laura Corin]

People assign moral worth to 'what I was taught and what was valued in my family/social group'.  I was chatting with an elderly woman the other day about the period when she rented out a property.  'And I went round to see the house and there was fluff under the beds!'  She didn't get the morally-outraged response from me that she expected, so she repeated, 'Fluff under the beds!'  To her, that was just wrong.  To me that was morally neutral and nowhere near dereliction of tenant duty.  It could possibly be unhealthy, but only if the tenant had specific health problems.

[TravelingChris]

On 7/16/2019 at 2:12 PM, Garga said:

My dh has a stick as well and I also asked him not to buy it.  And when he had shoulder surgery, he couldn't drive his own car for a couple of months because it was a stick and he couldn’t drive a stick with the bum shoulder.  

So, for stories like yours and mine, that to me shows that the dogged stick shift owners might be the “morally” wrong ones.  (Said in a joking tone—they’re not morally wrong, I’m just playing off my own title of this tread for fun).  Like you, I’ve run into problems only because a person insists on getting a stick knowing there are people who can’t drive it.  I’ve tried learning a few times, when my dh half-heartedly tries to teach me (but is afraid I’ll strip the gears, so he doesn’t really want me to learn), and I’ve come to HATE stick shifts.  I mean, hate them.  I hate the whole rolling back on a hill thing, I hate the whole extra foot thing, I hate the whole having to have an extra hand thing.  In my personal opinion, stick shifts are not as safe as automatics because you have to monkey around with an extra pedal and lever while driving.  So I’ve decided for myself that I don’t feel like I’m as safe of a driver in one and I don’t like them.  

 

We do not have stick shifts.  But my son does have a truck with stick shift.  Both dh and i know how to drive a stick shift since that was what our first car had.  We didn't keep getting them because I do have RA and it is harder for me.  But I can drive one, if I have to.

It is a fairly good anti- theft device if it it teens looking for a joy ride.  It isn't so good if you have an expensive sports car and it is stolen by professional theifs.

As to moral failings- no more moral failings than any other skill some people have or do not have.  I do not equate being able to drive a stick shift to anything to do with morality.

[TravelingChris]

On 7/16/2019 at 2:25 PM, gardenmom5 said:

in Europe sticks are more common than automatics.  1dd was roflol about her (uptight) boss having to go 40 MILES away from the *major airport* she flew in and out of to find a rental car that was an automatic.

This.   Not just in Europe either.  

[Just Kate]

Regarding changing your own tires, we recently learned that many new cars today do not come with spare tires. Instead they come with  a compressor and sealant kit. Which reminds me, I need to check out what came with my new-to-me van. It came with a compressor and sealant kit, but I keep forgetting to look at it more closely to make sure I’d know what to do if I ever need it. 

[shawthorne44]

On 7/16/2019 at 3:55 PM, Quill said:

...I learned to drive on a stick and I’m pleased that I am able to, but I don’t think it makes me superior. I also have no occasion to do it practically ever. If I were called upon to drive one in an emergency, I could probably muster up the ability from the coffers of my ancient brain, but it would be a close thing. I would much rather drive an automatic;  ...

This is me, and yes, if you had to, you could.  I was in Germany when my rental was totaled in a non-tourist area, so no automatics available for replacement.    The guy that delivered the car watched me with an eagle-eye as I left the parking lot.   I did well enough to satisfy him, but I was really sweating it.  The trouble was that it was a fancy BMW and there is this idea in Germany that only really good drivers that love to drive buy BMW's.   There was this left-turn on a steep hill and PEOPLE KEPT STOPPING RIGHT ON MY BUMPER!    I decided to park the car and walk instead.  That made a German co-worker cry. 

 

[shawthorne44]

6 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I have to ask...what did she mean by “fluff under the beds?”

Dust bunnies.

[Laura Corin]

44 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I have to ask...what did she mean by “fluff under the beds?”

Yes, dust bunnies.  And yes, I suspect she was a very intrusive landlady.  I was looking around her house, which is for sale.  The bathrooms were ten years old but they looked brand new.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Laura Corin

[Liz CA]

On 7/16/2019 at 12:20 PM, gardenmom5 said:

I don't think it's a moral failing - and I can drive a stick, and made my kids learn on a stick. (with one complaining up one side and down the other about how it's an anachronism too.)

it's a skill - that was much more common 50 years ago than now.  like 100 years ago, we would be using a wood stove, not gas or electric.  not many of us could use a wood stove for everyday cooking and *baking* today.

 

I was thinking along those lines. We live in a time when several skills are "lost" due rapidly advancing technology. Now the stick has been around for a long time but it's evidently considered an extra cool skill in the field of driving. In Europe, there are a lot more manual transmission cars and it's de rigeur to teach young drivers how to shift. Nothing to do with morality IMHO - just a skill one has or doesn't, and you can always learn.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Liz CA

[SKL]

I do admit to being proud of my parallel parking skilz.

My friend who drove a stick cannot parallel park to save her life.  😛

(Also she did not even know that people can change a tire without being a mechanic.)

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, Just Kate said:

Regarding changing your own tires, we recently learned that many new cars today do not come with spare tires. Instead they come with  a compressor and sealant kit. Which reminds me, I need to check out what came with my new-to-me van. It came with a compressor and sealant kit, but I keep forgetting to look at it more closely to make sure I’d know what to do if I ever need it. 

I find that kinda crazy......So if you completely ruin a tire you have to be towed in.  And in our shop when we have a car with damage to the tire we can't even move it around the shop because there is no spare.....it has been an interesting adjustment in how things are done.

[Just Kate]

20 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I find that kinda crazy......So if you completely ruin a tire you have to be towed in.  And in our shop when we have a car with damage to the tire we can't even move it around the shop because there is no spare.....it has been an interesting adjustment in how things are done.

 

According to Consumer Reports, about one third of new cars do not come with spare tires. 

https://www.consumerreports.org/tires/some-newer-cars-are-missing-a-spare-tire/

[Familia]

Agree with the lightheartedness of it.  Back when I was learning to drive, stick shift was the common way.  It is just a way to balance those memes regarding 'parents and technology' and their lack of knowledge.  Seen lots of those.  No-one thinks that is pointing out a 'moral failing' in the older generation.  The stick shift joke is just light-hearted banter - something to 'brag' about that is likely to be an older person skill unknown by the younger generation.  I think memes along those lines are funny - in a 'just having fun, not meaning to be mean' way.  Never thought anyone was feeling superior.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Familia

[GailV]

46 minutes ago, Just Kate said:

 

According to Consumer Reports, about one third of new cars do not come with spare tires. 

https://www.consumerreports.org/tires/some-newer-cars-are-missing-a-spare-tire/

Okay, that's actually a little comforting -- dd's Cruze doesn't have a spare, and dh tends to act like it's a quirk of that exact car designed to make his life miserable.  We ended up purchasing a tire and wheel (full size) that she keeps in the trunk.

As for the original discussion, heck, older dd moved to a place with decent public transport so she could totally ditch the car (regardless of transmission) and its need for upkeep and insurance.  I supposed one could bash back at the pro-stick people with an argument about the morality of forcing the U.S. to be so heavily reliant on individual automobiles for transportation in the first place. See also: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/car-crashes-arent-always-unavoidable/592447/

[rebcoola]

I don’t like all the snark between generations is so dumb. I am a millennial and I drive a stick.  I like it I zone out less with more to do.  But I also went 15 yrs without a stick because it wasn’t worth it to search harder, pay extra to get it. 

[Bluegoat]

On 7/17/2019 at 10:23 AM, Jenny in Florida said:

 

Right, my whole point was that, for me, personally, the whole manual transmission thing is sort of representative of the attitude of helplessness that it seems to me is increasing. It's not about the specific skill.

For example, yes, my own kids and many other young adults with whom I interact are quick with their typing thumbs on their cell phones and can shoot much better selfies than I can; however, the majority have no clue how a computer actually works. The majority don't do any coding, for example. They don't know what's inside the cell phone, can't even replace a battery. 

They know how to use technology, but they don't understand it any better than I do. And, therefore, when something goes wrong, they are simply stuck.

 

Yes, this is what I was getting at.  It's not really about driving stick, its about an increasing tendency to rely on interfaces that make the workings obscure.  At least that's how I interpret it when I see comments like that.

[Bluegoat]

11 hours ago, Just Kate said:

Regarding changing your own tires, we recently learned that many new cars today do not come with spare tires. Instead they come with  a compressor and sealant kit. Which reminds me, I need to check out what came with my new-to-me van. It came with a compressor and sealant kit, but I keep forgetting to look at it more closely to make sure I’d know what to do if I ever need it. 

 

I know how to change a tire, but I can't change the one on my van.  It is located under the van and while it is supposed to be possible to lower it down with a crank and retrieve it, I don't think I'm actually strong enough or could really even fit under to pull it out.  It ticks me off because I am not frail, it should be a job I can do, they've just made it impossible.

[chiguirre]

8 hours ago, Just Kate said:

 

According to Consumer Reports, about one third of new cars do not come with spare tires. 

https://www.consumerreports.org/tires/some-newer-cars-are-missing-a-spare-tire/

We have two cars that came with run flat tires. Dh did get a flat and managed to drive home 20 miles and then to the tire shop on the run flat. 

[Rosie_0801]

On 7/18/2019 at 12:24 AM, Margaret in CO said:

My kids can weld too.

If you manual drivers ever want a challenge, come to the ranch and drive the '68 Scout. Synchro wasn't invented yet, so you have to double clutch on every shift. And we have one tractor that has to be cranked to start, plus the gear pattern is Model T style, getting higher as you go left.

The first time I ever drove a car, I inquired of the salesman where the choke and throttle were. I was used to having to set those manually. The fellow suggested that perhaps we should modernize some vehicles. 

 

I'll send my mate over. Keep an eye on him though, I'd be sad if he died of happiness.  😄

[gardenmom5]

that is so bizarre cars are coming without a spare.  I'm in process of buying a new one - and it's a nice one, but it has surprised me it has a compact spare.  1dd bought a car in march - also a compact spare. (not sure about 2ds's car - I think compact?)  both things I thought "ick".  my current car came with a full size spare - but I can see the reasoning for the compact spare.

dh used to drive his miata leaving the spare in the garage - it took up the entire trunk.