Pen Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Ds got Learner Permit yesterday. We are Off to find an empty(ish) parking lot. ... think positive thoughts our way please and any advice on working on driving with adhd-ish teen is fine too 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 I didn't do any of it with my dd. She was, for my taste, completely unsafe to ride with for about the first 2 years, even when licensed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 Ah. I need to do several hours, then he’ll start having lessons with a professional instructor and we’ll get driving homework. actually this is more related to my anxiety level —and maybe that I particularly care for this vehicle!—right now than Ds driving ... I helped 3 other teens, one with some adhd-ish problems, learn to drive in past ... but I was younger, mellower... healthier myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaplank Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 My son got his permit 4 months ago, and it's been rough! I'm a nervous wreck! I finally broke down and took him to the doctor for an ADHD evaluation because I felt like it was really affecting his driving. Since being on medication, it's been so much better! I've learned that when I say "Slow down!!!!!", I need to qualify that with how many mph I'm referring to. His definition of "slow down" and my definition are vastly different. I also had to qualify that he has to take turns at 10 mph, and that has really helped him. (and me!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Congrats and good luck Pen! I say a little prayer every time DS leaves the house. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Try doing some mindfulness for a few minutes before you start out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 14, 2019 Author Share Posted July 14, 2019 We are back safe and sound. Worked for an hour on reverse, park, drive, 3pt turns, front in, back in, perpendicular and parallel (in empty lot) parking. Ds wanted to do more, but mamma is tired. I am trying to use a driving practice as incentive to get up and going at “reasonable” time tomorrow morning. 3 hours ago, aaplank said: I've learned that when I say "Slow down!!!!!", I need to qualify that with how many mph I'm referring to. His definition of "slow down" and my definition are vastly different. I also had to qualify that he has to take turns at 10 mph, and that has really helped him. (and me!) thanks specifying speed in mph is a good tip i need a clear way to explain slowing going into a turn and picking up some speed coming out of it He knows in theory. I’m not sure how to quantify mph. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaplank Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 5 hours ago, kand said: Is he on a long acting medication? My dc with ADHD takes just one short acting a day, and it only lasts 4ish hours, so I’m not sure we can rely on it for driving. I think driving is probably one of the tasks the ADHD is the most noticeable during. She doesn’t do much driving despite having a license, but we really need to work on it. I’ve been hoping just some more brain maturity would help. She’s super careful, but not comfortable. Yes, he's on an extended release dose. Before he was on medication he'd get so nervous while driving that his hands would sweat and he would have to take his hands off the wheel and wipe them off. Not to mention that he didn't have a firm grip of the wheel. Now, he is much more relaxed and his palms don't sweat anymore. I didn't realize that his nervousness was from his ADD. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1shortmomto4 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 My oldest, with the hearing impairment and anxiety, has had a learner's permit for a few years. Oh we tried the driving lessons but for some reason my dh left me holding that stressed out bag of worms to manage (he being the one that was professionally trained in advanced driving maneuvers because of his profession - no, he's not a race car driver ;-)). Because of his impairment we really need two instructors - one in the back that he could see, if needed in rear view mirror and one in the front seat that can see what is happening on the road and giving instruction as needed. I also wish one had a brake pedal on the passenger side. My ds had to drive once last year in an emergency so we could get my dd's car home and she sat with him with me following in the car behind. He did amazingly well and I did amazingly well just following rather being in the instructor mode. He is finally ready to finish up and get that license and made a comment that I wouldn't let him practice in my van because I was afraid he'd wreck it. It was then that I realized that my van was a "escape" route to do what and when I wanted to go and do something. hmmm.... My dh did help teaching my dd and she is a great driver. So now we've got to 2 more to go and I told my dh that he'd have to help more since he had achieved success in his instructions. What I don't understand is here in my state the parent(s) have to do hours and hours of behind the wheel training - day and night time before you even get to call the driving school for behind the wheel instruction. And they spend about 5 hours or less and then issue a driver's license. We don't have the special equipped car with pedals and extra steering wheel. I'm pretty sure my anxiety came to be when I began those driving lessons long ago.... There needs to be a self-help group for mom's who go through this frightening process. 😉 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 14, 2019 Author Share Posted July 14, 2019 26 minutes ago, 1shortmomto4 said: What I don't understand is here in my state the parent(s) have to do hours and hours of behind the wheel training - day and night time before you even get to call the driving school for behind the wheel instruction. I thought our area was bad, but Our area is not quite that bad, and had he gotten his LP earlier we could have gone to private professional instruction in advance of group class. there’s still a 15 hour of active practice requirement before going to a behind the wheel class, but it doesn’t need to include night time My Ds doesn’t have problems enough for this, but there’s also a driving school in our state that specializes in drivers with disabilities (like limited hearing, or missing a limb), and I think they will take students from very first drive experience after getting Permit Not that it would help homeschoolers, but I’d like to see a book type driver ed class along with health and safety in 9th grade or so in school... Maybe earlier. They have been hauling car crash wrecks over to Ds school pkng lot for the kids to see— but I fear it increases girl caution/anxiety by and large while the boys are more “wow, cool!” Or whatever current slang indicates admiration of the wreck I held on to an old beater car hoping for it to be available at this practice stage, but it’s not currently okay to drive, so my beloved Ridgeline pick up is being used and having to endure ignition key turned wrong way, forgetting to let off the emergency brake, and one parallel parking attempt that went up onto curb. Oops. 😥 I’m trying not to think ahead to freeways 😱 yeah — we need a mom self help group! it could be bad for weight at this stage of life too. I came home and had some chocolate 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 My mom tried to get me to drive at 16, but I clearly was not ready. Ended up doing driver's ed at 21 and got my license right before I got married. Personally I'm of the leave 'em till 21. My dh wasn't, so dd has totaled 2 cars and has sky high rates. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 14, 2019 Author Share Posted July 14, 2019 (edited) Quote My dh wasn't, so dd has totaled 2 cars and has sky high rates. 😳 😲 Aaaahhhh! Not reassuring! (Just the cars, I guess, and she was okay or you’d have said?🤞🏼 And 2 as in yours and someone’s she collided with or two of yours?) If all goes well Ds will probably get his license shortly before he turns 18. Though maybe it will take longer. We live quite rural (beyond all bus routes and cab / Uber to city is over $50 one way) and I’m a single mom with health issues. Totaling cars or worse really scares me. 🙏 I did look at cost of renting a room or apt or something in the city where busses , bikes, etc are feasible. Certainly would be less than cabs. And remains an option. I guess. DS’s current (and probably sensible for him) area of career interest might not be impossible without being able to drive, but certainly difficult without it And more generally, not driving in our rural situation is a major block to Ds developing “ adulting”. We are actually in a “farm” area where kids can get farm driving licenses at 14yo, so he’s quite a few years behind in driving compared to some of his early farm driving license peers (not to mention that some were driving tractors on their own family property around 8 yo) He also has anxiety where he can psych himself out—we were fighting anxiety on having failed the written test for LP once. he was getting into, a “there’s no point even trying, I’ll never pass it,” etc mentality. It took over a year for him to try again. It’s a hard situation to balance with anxiety ptsd type issues at same time as sensory seeking, adhd ish issues Edited July 14, 2019 by Pen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 14, 2019 Author Share Posted July 14, 2019 I got “Student Driver” warning car magnets . Maybe that will help. Meanwhile seeing if the ‘92 Honda will rescussitate into road worthiness. Though as it has fewer air bags it may just shift my concern from worry about vehicle damage to worry about occupant safety. Maybe I should not bother after all . Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumto2 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Not sure if this helps but my experience.... We hired a professional and put both dc’s through at the same time because they needed to learn and we didn’t feel up to the challenge. We still spent a lot of time in empty parking lots etc. but felt like we had direction. I had to relearn and test 10 years ago in England and that experience made me convinced at the value of a good professional instructor. I do wonder if you could schedule a scattering of professional lessons with you practicing in between. Mainly because the dc’s instructor seemed to get how my very numerical kids brains worked ( she was an accountant in a previous life) and was good about quantifying things like your speeds for maneuvers etc. in a way that I never could. Lots of experience with learners gave her answers to questions that never occurred to me.🤔 I think the instructors have to be really good at meeting the needs of the student and some at large schools have specialities of sorts........mine sort of specialized in working with widows who hadn’t driven before\ or in many years 😎😂. Yeah, I hate roundabouts but no longer fear them. I had issues and since I was an older student..... Since I was paying to bill for the dc’s we had a few minutes after each lesson where I was given a summery and what to practice on for each kid. She was good about sharing her tips and had me do some quick ride alongs to see where the issues were. I do want to add that neither kid ever showed a serious interest in learning and neither enjoys driving now......they seem to consider exhausting. But as neither of them ever wants to live in a city where public transportation is super convenient they had to learn. For now we still give generally them rides but they can drive which we are all grateful for. Also they are proud of the fact that they passed, as you said it’s an adulting skill. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 1 hour ago, mumto2 said: I do want to add that neither kid ever showed a serious interest in learning and neither enjoys driving now......they seem to consider exhausting. Just a total aside, but I find it fatiguing too!! I know people who drive for pleasure or who are like yeah I'll drive 8 hours to see you. Me, I max at 2 hours. I just did 4 1/2 hours, an that was so, so much. Took tons of tea, left me tired, had to stop a lot. And I just replaced my car with a new one that is easier to drive. It has a smaller steering wheel, so I don't reach up so much, seat fits me better, little blinkies on the side mirrors for blind spot. I can drive it more comfortably. But still, if it's over 2 hours, I'm going to be trying to get my dh to drive it. I don't really know why that is, and I like flying enough that I don't really care. I can fly many places so cheaply that it's just better to fly anyway. But I'm just thinking there's a pattern there and that if they say it is tiring, it legit might be. And my dd is the total opposite, driving down to college 8 hours, blah blah. Not me, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 I have taught 4 kids how to drive, but my 5th child's anxiety about driving is killing me. We have spent a month driving in big circles around our mall's parking lot early in the morning hrs before they open. She refuses to drive on a road. At this point, my older kids were driving on the interstate. Her anxiety is causing me to think she will never actually drive anywhere where she might encounter another car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storygirl Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 DD17 has had her license for about a year. DH did all of the driving instruction, because he thought it was better for her to have consistent feedback. And he thought it was scary and didn't want me to have to deal with it (which was nice!). She needed 20 hours with a parent before being in the car with a professional instructor -- not by state law, but by the guidelines of the driving service. She has no disabilities that affect driving, but her brother does. I am really really hoping that DS15 just continues on, oblivious to the fact that he will be old enough to get his temps in October. In this case, it may be beneficial that he is older for his grade, because his friends may have another year to go before they start talking about driving. However, his younger brother and sister are close in age; I'm not sure how he will feel if they drive before he does. DS15 not only has ADHD but also visual spatial issues, so I am anticipating for it to be hard. We do have options for him to have various sorts of help, due to his disabilities, but adaptive driving can be super expensive. Things we have been told that we can do include having a readiness exam by an OT, so that if we feel he is not ready, it is not just DH and me saying so; having tutoring for the written test needed to get temps, if he can't pass it the first time; and adaptive driving lessons with a teacher who is experienced with working with those with disabilities. I don't know yet if he will need any or all of those things, but I'm glad to know that they are options, if we are willing to pay for them. Pen, I'm glad your son passed his learner's permit test!! I hope it all goes better than you expect. I will be really nervous when our time comes. We do not live on or near a public bus route, so DS15 will either need to learn to drive or will be dependent upon me for transportation for a long time to come. Although I am used to being the driver for my kids, I am hopeful that that will come to an end one day, so DS learning to drive will be important, even if it is delayed until he is older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 2 hours ago, mumto2 said: Not sure if this helps but my experience.... We hired a professional and put both dc’s through at the same time because they needed to learn and we didn’t feel up to the challenge. We still spent a lot of time in empty parking lots etc. but felt like we had direction. I had to relearn and test 10 years ago in England and that experience made me convinced at the value of a good professional instructor. I do wonder if you could schedule a scattering of professional lessons with you practicing in between. Mainly because the dc’s instructor seemed to get how my very numerical kids brains worked ( she was an accountant in a previous life) and was good about quantifying things like your speeds for maneuvers etc. in a way that I never could. Lots of experience with learners gave her answers to questions that never occurred to me.🤔 I think the instructors have to be really good at meeting the needs of the student and some at large schools have specialities of sorts........mine sort of specialized in working with widows who hadn’t driven before\ or in many years 😎😂. Yeah, I hate roundabouts but no longer fear them. I had issues and since I was an older student..... Since I was paying to bill for the dc’s we had a few minutes after each lesson where I was given a summery and what to practice on for each kid. She was good about sharing her tips and had me do some quick ride alongs to see where the issues were. I do want to add that neither kid ever showed a serious interest in learning and neither enjoys driving now......they seem to consider exhausting. But as neither of them ever wants to live in a city where public transportation is super convenient they had to learn. For now we still give generally them rides but they can drive which we are all grateful for. Also they are proud of the fact that they passed, as you said it’s an adulting skill. He is on a waiting list for an extra set of private lessons, and we may do an extra extra set beyond that— especially as I see 1. How much concern I have about teaching him in traffic , freeways, etc 2. Moodiness issues. We aborted today’s attempt due to bad mood— at first I thought due to being hungry, but it didn’t improve after going out to eat. We had a negative interaction about a mostly empty soda bottle which I wanted him to get rid of by means of returning it to the counter for its deposit back instead of letting it roll around possibly becoming a danger under foot or throwing in trash... possibly I was being over demanding in wanting it to go to counter, but I didn’t want to do a practice when he was already acting grumpy and oppositional. — or for that matter if I was the one who was unreasonably grumpy and oppositional. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumto2 Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 8 hours ago, Pen said: He is on a waiting list for an extra set of private lessons, and we may do an extra extra set beyond that— especially as I see 1. How much concern I have about teaching him in traffic , freeways, etc 2. Moodiness issues. We aborted today’s attempt due to bad mood— at first I thought due to being hungry, but it didn’t improve after going out to eat. We had a negative interaction about a mostly empty soda bottle which I wanted him to get rid of by means of returning it to the counter for its deposit back instead of letting it roll around possibly becoming a danger under foot or throwing in trash... possibly I was being over demanding in wanting it to go to counter, but I didn’t want to do a practice when he was already acting grumpy and oppositional. — or for that matter if I was the one who was unreasonably grumpy and oppositional. I hope he moves to the top of the list quickly for the extra lessons. My dc’s still haven’t driven on the freeway right by our house because it is part of a massive construction project where exit entrances and lanes seem to change constantly. Only Dh is willing to use it on a regular basis. We actually took them about an hour away to a far safer and quieter expressway to practice on. Expressway driving was not part of the exam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 My totally neurotypical teen just got her permit. She's driven a few times with my husband, but I've only ridden with her once. Oh my. She's very anxious and reluctant to drive, but I really do view it as a non-negotiable thing because it's pretty much impossible to operate independently in our area without being able to drive. She's very cautious, but I'm also anxious, and it's just a hard combination. I'm okay with driving with her in abandoned places like parking lots, but on roads with other cars and interacting with traffic, my anxiety just spikes so much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, mumto2 said: I hope he moves to the top of the list quickly for the extra lessons. Me too. I was given choice of waiting for same instructor as will be for group lessons or first available— and went with first available... Quote My dc’s still haven’t driven on the freeway right by our house because it is part of a massive construction project where exit entrances and lanes seem to change constantly. Only Dh is willing to use it on a regular basis. We actually took them about an hour away to a far safer and quieter expressway to practice on. Expressway driving was not part of the exam. Knowing how to yield and merge to get on a freeway is a listed exam item here. He may not have the exam (explained below), but should be able to do that for real life as Interstate 5 runs through our area and while needing it is infrequent— not like when I lived in Los Angeles and needed freeways with great frequency— it needs not to be a problem to get on and off it, or another short area of freeways and a couple expressways. There are a few places that tend to result in getting stuck in a lane headed to an on ramp and no one will let one over out of the heading to freeway lane. That needs to be an okay thing. Though I hope “student driver” car signs will help and I’ll avoid the places I know that tends to happen unless seeking them on purpose. One of them is such a frequent problem that it seems to be in its third attempt at a redesign. Reason he may not have exam is : The state offers a successful completion of the group class + 50 logged practice hours on a variety of skills and in a variety of driving circumstances option instead of the exam. We will probably be going for that option. I think that option may end when age 18 is reached and shifts to by exam only, but I have not confirmed that impression. 26 minutes ago, Terabith said: My totally neurotypical teen just got her permit. She's driven a few times with my husband, but I've only ridden with her once. Oh my. She's very anxious and reluctant to drive, but I really do view it as a non-negotiable thing because it's pretty much impossible to operate independently in our area without being able to drive. She's very cautious, but I'm also anxious, and it's just a hard combination. I'm okay with driving with her in abandoned places like parking lots, but on roads with other cars and interacting with traffic, my anxiety just spikes so much. Part of my trouble in my mind is that I considered skills over the months remaining before he turns 18, and made up in my own mind a hierarchy of difficulty (and my anxiety level) related to driving skills and locations around us. If that sense of progression works out, he’ll come to freeway driving in winter time. I wish he could have beginning freeway skills coincide with summer weather . . . And then later put together freeway plus rain / fog. I am considering seeing if professional can flexibly give him a snow lesson if we can get a snowfall that allows driving at all. I’m not good at snow driving having been originally a Los Angeles area driver. I’ve never lived anywhere where there’s enough to get good practice at it. Or anyway, I did not get it. Friends of mine still in Los Angeles area took their son to the snowy mountains in winter to practice there between when he had his license and before turning 18. Hmm. Maybe someone I know who lived in Vermont and Colorado could help with that. Edited July 15, 2019 by Pen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storygirl Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 2 hours ago, mumto2 said: I hope he moves to the top of the list quickly for the extra lessons. My dc’s still haven’t driven on the freeway right by our house because it is part of a massive construction project where exit entrances and lanes seem to change constantly. Only Dh is willing to use it on a regular basis. We actually took them about an hour away to a far safer and quieter expressway to practice on. Expressway driving was not part of the exam. We found that in our state, driving on the highway is not a required part of the driving exam, but some of the testing locations still had students do it during the test. I'm not sure how they figured this out, but DH and DD identified a testing center that is known to be easier than others, and they went there. They didn't make her go on the highway and just had her circle a short section of the block before passing her; other locations evidently take students on the highway and make them drive a longer distance on roads that are trickier to navigate. I don't know if testing center vary in your state, Pen, but it's something to look into between now and the exam. DD17 did have a good amount of highway practice before her test, but in the year since, she has only had to drive short distances. Now she is needing to practice highway driving again, because she feels uncomfortable attempting it. DH took her out to practice last night. So even now that she has had her license for some time, she is not entirely comfortable in all circumstances. She is still gaining confidence. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storygirl Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 I think if he can get the hours and lessons in before he turns 18, the non-exam option sounds great! I wish we had that here. We have to take 24 hours of classroom lessons, plus have 50 hours behind the wheel, including 10 hours of nighttime driving and 8 hours with a professional instructor. Plus there is a written test to get the temps and the driving test at the end, to get the license. During the driving test, we have to do maneuverability (driving a short path back and forth between cones), as well as on-street driving. Back in the olden days, when I got my license, I was so nervous about the in-car exam that I failed the maneuverability part twice. Really, I was an adequate driver, but I was just terrified of the test. I would have been so relieved to not have to take that exam!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, Storygirl said: We found that in our state, driving on the highway is not a required part of the driving exam, but some of the testing locations still had students do it during the test. I'm not sure how they figured this out, but DH and DD identified a testing center that is known to be easier than others, and they went there. They didn't make her go on the highway and just had her circle a short section of the block before passing her; other locations evidently take students on the highway and make them drive a longer distance on roads that are trickier to navigate. Yes. I’ve heard that too. Some people go to a DMV on the Coast where there’s the Coast Highway route, but no interstate. In reality, I don’t think I’d be comfortable handing keys or a vehicle over to be driven without some comfort with that sort of driving. Maybe I would if I knew it was going to be limited to being from home to our local rural school and back only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storygirl Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 I bet you can get the expressway practice in before the weather changes. That is quite a few months from now. If he practices diligently, I don't think it should take months before he can try to manage a highway exit ramp, when you consider that he only needs 50 hours of driving, total. It really is intimidating to try it, but it can be practiced by a newer driver. If you choose a portion of highway that is less traveled and go there during a time of day that is not busy, you may be able to practice it without much traffic around. DD spent quite a few sessions just driving around a parking lot first. Then they went on quiet neighborhood streets. Then got used to busier streets with more traffic and traffic lights, etc. Then the highway. But actually, the highway is easier driving than a street in town, where you have to deal with traffic lights and oncoming traffic. On the highway, the cars you are among are all going the same direction, at least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storygirl Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Pen said: Yes. I’ve heard that too. Some people go to a DMV on the Coast where there’s the Coast Highway route, but no interstate. In reality, I don’t think I’d be comfortable handing keys or a vehicle over to be driven without some comfort with that sort of driving. Maybe I would if I knew it was going to be limited to being from home to our local rural school and back only. DD17 only drove the 10 minutes to and from school at first. Then the 20 minutes to work, which involves going through a major shopping area with more traffic. It took us all a while to feel comfortable with those two locations, before she started driving elsewhere. She still stays within 20 to 25 minutes of our house and avoids the highway, and she's been driving on her own for almost year now. Other friends of hers have gained confidence and experience more quickly and do more highway driving for longer distances. We live in a suburb of our state capital, so she needs to be able to get around in heavier traffic. Where I grew up, we were an hour and a half, at least, from any major urban area, so I didn't need to be able to handle busier traffic until I was a lot older and lived in a bigger city. I eventually learned how to navigate city driving, but I was much older by then. So it all really varies, depending on your local conditions. I was able to drive for years without doing city driving, but my kids will need to be comfortable with it earlier. Edited July 15, 2019 by Storygirl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, Storygirl said: I think if he can get the hours and lessons in before he turns 18, the non-exam option sounds great! I wish we had that here. We have to take 24 hours of classroom lessons, plus have 50 hours behind the wheel, including 10 hours of nighttime driving and 8 hours with a professional instructor. Plus there is a written test to get the temps and the driving test at the end, to get the license. During the driving test, we have to do maneuverability (driving a short path back and forth between cones), as well as on-street driving. Back in the olden days, when I got my license, I was so nervous about the in-car exam that I failed the maneuverability part twice. Really, I was an adequate driver, but I was just terrified of the test. I would have been so relieved to not have to take that exam!! IKR I think the course rather than drive test will be a big help. They have 32 hours minimum in classroom , plus 12 hours in vehicle with instructor— 6 hours they are driver, 6 hours they are back seat observer of another student driver. Plus the 50 minimum practice hours with parent or similar adult. Plus beyond the written test to get Permit, there’s another written (or nowadays computer) test of ? Not sure actually? Safety matters maybe. That’s the regular for class in lieu of drive test. To that I already added 6 hours behind the wheel in training school vehicle private lessons— and may well add another set of 6 to take some teaching pressure off myself. It may be that having decided on the group class starting soon that he will end up on freeway by end September due to it being a class component. We’ll see, I guess. One step at a time! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) On 7/13/2019 at 6:52 PM, aaplank said: My son got his permit 4 months ago, and it's been rough! I'm a nervous wreck! I finally broke down and took him to the doctor for an ADHD evaluation because I felt like it was really affecting his driving. Since being on medication, it's been so much better! I've learned that when I say "Slow down!!!!!", I need to qualify that with how many mph I'm referring to. His definition of "slow down" and my definition are vastly different. I also had to qualify that he has to take turns at 10 mph, and that has really helped him. (and me!) We are here. I tell my son to slow down, he growls at me about it and says “I am!” But he’s not, and then we take the turn too fast. I was going to try to find a way BEFORE we get in the car to deal with this scenario that keeps coming up over and over. The 10 mph for a turn is a wonderful idea. 18 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said: I have taught 4 kids how to drive, but my 5th child's anxiety about driving is killing me. We have spent a month driving in big circles around our mall's parking lot early in the morning hrs before they open. She refuses to drive on a road. At this point, my older kids were driving on the interstate. Her anxiety is causing me to think she will never actually drive anywhere where she might encounter another car. My son started back in October. By December, his anxiety made us stop lessons. That’s about when I realized he had actual diagnosable anxiety and we started treating it We started lessons up again in May. And we’re only just gotten out of parking lots and into one very empty housing development. I’m honestly at my wits end. This has been dragging on since October and he has yet to drive on any real roads in the 6 months of active driving we’ve been doing. He should have had his license 4 months ago and we’re still on empty streets. Now, I know the anxiety changes everything, but I am SO SICK of the driving lessons. Just yesterday I told my dh that he has to take it over because I just can’t take it anymore and I think my son learns slightly better from my dh. And I don’t see much improvement. He’s still taking turns too fast, still driving too closely to things. I wonder if there are youtube videos or something out there teaching parents HOW to teach a kid to drive. We get in the car and we try to wing it as we go, pointing things out while he’s driving around. Which stresses him out. Edited July 15, 2019 by Garga 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 31 minutes ago, Storygirl said: If you choose a portion of highway that is less traveled and go there during a time of day that is not busy, you may be able to practice it without much traffic around. That’s a good point. I’ll start watching for a stretch that might offer a relatively easy on easy off. Or also maybe other parents or the professional instructor have a good spot they know of. 31 minutes ago, Storygirl said: DD spent quite a few sessions just driving around a parking lot first. This is what we’ve done so far. 31 minutes ago, Storygirl said: Then they went on quiet neighborhood streets. This is where we’ll be soon. We also have locally a 55mph rural highway area that should be relatively easy to deal with (driving 55mph isn’t required and it’s often quite deserted) and lies between us and his school as well as being needed as first step on way to local towns and slightly farther cities... Im not sure whether the highway is easier or harder than city driving in our area. I think possibly harder because of hills and curves , and potential speed of other drivers even if taking it slowly oneself. In any case, I think my own sense of anxiety will be worse on areas with higher speeds, drop offs, and concrete edges, but we’ll see. Some may depend on him and how he takes to it. 31 minutes ago, Storygirl said: Then got used to busier streets with more traffic and traffic lights, etc. Then the highway. But actually, the highway is easier driving than a street in town, I might look at whether there’s an area toward Salem, Oregon, our state capital where there might be long straight flat stretches of Interstate to work on. I have a feeling that while both Eugene and Portland have more difficult areas of interstate that in between there may be some easier parts. 31 minutes ago, Storygirl said: where you have to deal with traffic lights and oncoming traffic. On the highway, the cars you are among are all going the same direction, at least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Garga said: We are here. I tell my son to slow down, he growls at me about it and says “I am!” But he’s not, and then we take the turn too fast. I was going to try to find a way BEFORE we get in the car to deal with this scenario that keeps coming up over and over. The 10 mph for a turn is a wonderful idea. My son started back in October. By December, his anxiety made us stop lessons. That’s about when I realized he had actual diagnosable anxiety and we started treating it We started the up again in about March. And we’re only just gotten out of parking lots and into one very empty housing development. I’m honestly at my wits end. This has been dragging on since October and he has yet to drive on any real roads in the 7 months of active driving we’ve been doing. He should have had his license 4 months ago and we’re still on empty streets. Now, I know the anxiety changes everything, but I am SO SICK of the driving lessons. Just yesterday I told my dh that he has to take it over because I just can’t take it anymore and I think my son learns slightly better from my dh. And I don’t see much improvement. He’s still taking turns too fast, still driving too closely to things. I wonder if there are youtube videos or something out there teaching parents HOW to teach a kid to drive. We get in the car and we try to wing it as we go, pointing things out while he’s driving around. Which stresses him out. I did watch what I could find on YouTube. Nothing seemed great that I found, however. If you find something excellent, please share! One problem is that for me so much is automatic that it’s hard to explain or even answer a question. Like on our old car, the automatic shift is in a center console with everything marked and very obvious, and he learned using that on our own driveway. On the truck, it’s also an automatic but as a lever extending from steering column area, much less obvious how or where to move it. So when I got into passenger seat and he moved to driver’s seat and he asked how to move the shifter, it was really hard for me to get a conscious answer at all or then put that into words. He got upset because I leaned over as if to hold it, just trying to get into my own mind, what do I do? So he was saying “just Tell me, don’t show me”. And I’m like “I want to ‘just tell you’, but I can’t remember what I do.” Which didn’t make sense to him. Like I must be nuts seeing as how I’d just done it , so how could I have forgotten? I think maybe I should try to see if I could equate it to an ice skating jump where he has internalized how to do it and doesn’t think through the steps in words. I am also planning to demonstrate turns and speed using a toy car or a twig standing in for a car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Pen said: I did watch what I could find on YouTube. Nothing seemed great that I found, however. If you find something excellent, please share! One problem is that for me so much is automatic that it’s hard to explain or even answer a question. Like on our old car, the automatic shift is in a center console with everything marked and very obvious, and he learned using that on our own driveway. On the truck, it’s also an automatic but as a lever extending from steering column area, much less obvious how or where to move it. So when I got into passenger seat and he moved to driver’s seat and he asked how to move the shifter, it was really hard for me to get a conscious answer at all or then put that into words. He got upset because I leaned over as if to hold it, just trying to get into my own mind, what do I do? So he was saying “just Tell me, don’t show me”. And I’m like “I want to ‘just tell you’, but I can’t remember what I do.” Which didn’t make sense to him. Like I must be nuts seeing as how I’d just done it , so how could I have forgotten? I think maybe I should try to see if I could equate it to an ice skating jump where he has internalized how to do it and doesn’t think through the steps in words. I am also planning to demonstrate turns and speed using a toy car or a twig standing in for a car. Yes! This is exactly how it is. I’ve lived this. I try to explain things and he gets really angry. There was the time when I was trying to teach him when to start braking before a turn (we were still in the parking lot) and how far to turn the wheel. So, as he drove, I put my foot out in front of me and pretended to hold a wheel so I could get a feel for when to brake and turn, and so we could do it together. When he’d see me turning my wheel in the corner of his eye, he’d know to turn his. Yeah. That went over like a lead balloon. He got outright offended by that. And sometimes, it’s impossible to teach him how to do things. When he stops, he presses on the brakes to slow the car down and then at the last minute presses harder and we all jolt forward. He kept doing this and it wasn’t until I was alone in the car and feeling how I actually brake that I realized that I gently depress the brake and then ever so slightly ease up, then depress some more, ease up some more...a constant gentle adjusting of how much I press the brake, but so subtle that you don’t actually feel it as a passenger...it’s just a constant adjusting to the car’s speed and the road and it’s all felt by my foot on the pedal. At the end right before the final stop, I ease my foot up off the brake even more and the car gently glides to a stop and then I push on the brake and hold my foot there while we’re stopped. How in the world do I explain that to him when he’s trying to slow and stop, since I can’t feel what he’s feeling through the brake pedal? It’s almost impossible to explain it with words in the moment. And when I try to talk about these things either before we drive or during the driving, he closes up and gets irritated at me. I’m sitting there thinking I’m helping by talking him through it, and the next thing I know he’s hissing at me that I’m distracting him and making him anxious. Um....we can’t have a driving lesson if the instructor has to sit there in utter silence, but that’s what he wants. How will he learn if he can’t be instructed? And after 6 months, it’s not like he’s learning it on his own by doing it. He listens a bit better to DH, so DH has to take over after work while it’s still light out. And even though my son gets coldly angry at me in the car, when it’s not in the moment he feels just horrible that he gets that way when he drives and is sooo sorry. But the very next time in the car...he gets angry and tetchy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 There are you tube videos now on how to do various driving procedures. do you think one like this watched perhaps by the teen himself might help or make it worse? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URR_fMRgpXg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 The last message is for anyone reading who might weigh in as well as @Garga 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) Right turn example: there are a bunch I saw Fro m a Driving instructor calling his YouTube channel Conduit Facile. He’s in Montreal. Very broken down, and I think well explained— but use Km/hr and also in very first vid showed turning into a middle lane that’s illegal to do here (we’re supposed to turn into nearest lane), so I’m not sure that it would be good to use eta posted link to this farther down Edited July 15, 2019 by Pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) Here’s one from the other guy — which I found less confusing other than km and the lane choice that isn’t legal here It has at least 4 different videos on turning right ... a series of 3 and then one for at red lights .... I like the small pieces and divisions like that Edited July 15, 2019 by Pen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 So when I learned to drive, I was in grad school. I took what the instructor said and wrote everything out, every single step. So yes, there are steps for braking, steps for turns, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 32 minutes ago, PeterPan said: So when I learned to drive, I was in grad school. I took what the instructor said and wrote everything out, every single step. So yes, there are steps for braking, steps for turns, etc. The academic approach! That’s undoubtedly not goin to happen here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 Just now, Pen said: The academic approach! That’s undoubtedly not goin to happen here! I wasn't 16. My mother tried at 15/16 and I wouldn't have been doing that either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) I just learned that the way I adjust my mirrors is no longer recommended. Edited July 15, 2019 by Pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storygirl Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) Okay, so you guys have to figure out the key to fixing the arguing kid problem, and then share it, before DS15 is eligible for his temps in three months. Man, oh, man, the arguing we have over how to tie shoe laces. Or how to wipe the bathroom sink. I am definitely not looking forward to handling the arguing while he operates a moving vehicle. And I'm not sure that DS14, who can get his temps in a year, will be much better on the arguing front. He gets really offended any time someone points out that he is doing something wrong. He doesn't argue as much; he just kind of gets really frosty and refuses to listen. Or pretends he doesn't understand or can't hear you. DD14 won't be any easier, temperamentally. I thought having three toddlers at the same time was nerve wracking. Three teens learning to drive at the same tme may be worse!!! I need to compliment DH on how well he taught DD17 to drive. Lots and lots of compliments. He does such a great job that it would be a shame for me to take over. Edited July 15, 2019 by Storygirl 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 7 hours ago, Garga said: We are here. I tell my son to slow down, he growls at me about it and says “I am!” But he’s not, and then we take the turn too fast. I was going to try to find a way BEFORE we get in the car to deal with this scenario that keeps coming up over and over. The 10 mph for a turn is a wonderful idea. My son started back in October. By December, his anxiety made us stop lessons. That’s about when I realized he had actual diagnosable anxiety and we started treating it We started lessons up again in May. And we’re only just gotten out of parking lots and into one very empty housing development. I’m honestly at my wits end. This has been dragging on since October and he has yet to drive on any real roads in the 6 months of active driving we’ve been doing. He should have had his license 4 months ago and we’re still on empty streets. Now, I know the anxiety changes everything, but I am SO SICK of the driving lessons. Just yesterday I told my dh that he has to take it over because I just can’t take it anymore and I think my son learns slightly better from my dh. And I don’t see much improvement. He’s still taking turns too fast, still driving too closely to things. I wonder if there are youtube videos or something out there teaching parents HOW to teach a kid to drive. We get in the car and we try to wing it as we go, pointing things out while he’s driving around. Which stresses him out. This one seems good to me. The guy from Montreal is so far the best I’ve found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 https://www.teendriversource.org/learning-to-drive/practice-driving-lessons/the-basics this also looks good to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 There are several books about teaching your teen to drive, or learning to drive that I saw on Amazon. And then not sure if this AAA book/ video would help: https://drivertraining.aaa.biz/shop/teaching-your-teens-to-drive/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) I’m trying to decide whether I should push buy on the AAA manual or not... with shipping it it would be over$40 — I decided not Edited July 16, 2019 by Pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, kand said: Our state puts out a free booklet for parents teaching kids to drive. It’s available at the DOL. Perhaps your state does as well? We do, but it doesn’t really say much as to specifics of *how* to explain things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1shortmomto4 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Love the videos posted. Something that I've been doing with both of my sons (one who has learners and one is working towards it) is asking them "what do you see" as I drive around running errands, taking one to work, etc. I'm getting them to look not just at signs, but conditions around them, a car coming from a side street, etc. to begin training their brains to search beyond the front of the car, to look down the road a bit to prepare for possible issues, etc. I read that this is something that really helps and generates discussion between the stressed out driving instructor and the future learner 😉 I did look up driving schools in my area that offer disability driving instruction and only 1 in the area and I live in a big metropolitan area! And they want a college tuition for the instruction time. The biggest issue in my area is that most of the companies are owned by people that English was NOT their first language so accents are real strong and troubling. Nice people but for my hearing impaired son - that is the biggest struggle he has when interpreting language - accents are a big no go! I will say this - we delayed teaching our kids to drive until they were 17/18 for a few reasons - the biggest being that the longer you wait the better they do statistically on the road with regards to accidents. Insurance is not as high (but still high!). I know many want their kids to drive so that it frees them up not to have to take them places but sometimes you get more than you wished for speeding up the process. I know that some kids are chomping at the bit the first day they are eligible and others are hesitant. Just because they can doesn't mean they should. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 If you do it in baby steps it's not quite as anxiety-provoking! We started in parking lots and empty roads that go through county parks in our area. Those pretty much go in circles and I think you're required to drive under 15 MPH. From there, non-busy neighborhood streets. Before we went on a highway, we went on much-less-driven county roads, where you could still go up to 50 MPH. Then from highways to freeways. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/14/2019 at 4:08 PM, PeterPan said: Just a total aside, but I find it fatiguing too!! I know people who drive for pleasure or who are like yeah I'll drive 8 hours to see you. Me, I max at 2 hours. I just did 4 1/2 hours, an that was so, so much. Took tons of tea, left me tired, had to stop a lot. And I just replaced my car with a new one that is easier to drive. It has a smaller steering wheel, so I don't reach up so much, seat fits me better, little blinkies on the side mirrors for blind spot. I can drive it more comfortably. But still, if it's over 2 hours, I'm going to be trying to get my dh to drive it. I don't really know why that is, and I like flying enough that I don't really care. I can fly many places so cheaply that it's just better to fly anyway. But I'm just thinking there's a pattern there and that if they say it is tiring, it legit might be. And my dd is the total opposite, driving down to college 8 hours, blah blah. Not me, lol. For me that’s changed quite a bit related to age and health. I loved driving when I was younger and healthy. Cross country USA, adored the downtown Interchanges of Los Angeles. Was generally designated driver when a group of friends went to England because I was the only one who both could drive stick shift and thought the side of road and driver seat made sense (to me the English position seems far more natural). ... when I was 15 newly permitted I did most of a family cross country trip driving when not in cities. I took the hours and hours of interstate driving and then handed off to my Dad at last rest stop prior to coming into a city. Now I am also asking myself if I was a less risky driver or if my father (also stepmother and siblings) were much calmer passengers. Both, I think. now I get tired and achy fast ... actually my vehicle seat is one of the most comfortable places I have for my back, but I still get achy ... grump, grump, grump middle age mama grumpies... would not have guessed this would be so when I was 16 or 25 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, 1shortmomto4 said: I will say this - we delayed teaching our kids to drive until they were 17/18 for a few reasons - the biggest being that the longer you wait the better they do statistically on the road with regards to accidents. Insurance is not as high (but still high!). I know many want their kids to drive so that it frees them up not to have to take them places but sometimes you get more than you wished for speeding up the process. I know that some kids are chomping at the bit the first day they are eligible and others are hesitant. Just because they can doesn't mean they should. True. We are at the age 17 stage already. If Ds succeeds with “my plan” he’ll be able to get his DL just short of 18 and not have to do the drive test. If not, he’ll go past 18 and have to do the drive test. I think the required classes and professional instruction will help his safety and that no drive test is a good incentive. I am hoping he will cooperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/14/2019 at 5:02 PM, 8FillTheHeart said: I have taught 4 kids how to drive, but my 5th child's anxiety about driving is killing me. We have spent a month driving in big circles around our mall's parking lot early in the morning hrs before they open. She refuses to drive on a road. At this point, my older kids were driving on the interstate. Her anxiety is causing me to think she will never actually drive anywhere where she might encounter another car. For the 4 without the severe anxiety, what roughly was the time you spent in lots, time on quiet roads, time on more busy roads, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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