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Ausmumof3

S/o straw thread environmental stuff that’s worse for the consumer

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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yeah don’t get me started on the fire prevention versus environmental protection thing.  I think after reading dark emu it seems to me like Australian land was always tended and maintained but somehow we have this idea that it should be left completely alone and it will become this idyllic garden of eden virgin bush.  Only the end result of that is more destructive fires that actually wipe out native species because they are too big/too hot.   Obviously there are problems with clearing all debris but there are definitely problems with leaving it too.

the rest sounds super frustrating too. Good on you though and hope it all works out eventually.  

My bold, 😄 true

Thank you, it is all working out really well, it has just taken an awful lot longer than we anticipated! 

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10 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Our local parks have compostable bags.

Compostable bags only work if people compost them, not if they throw them away. And "biodegradable" plastic bags come with a whole host of problems anyways.

I think that our problem stems (at least in large part) from the fact that we want to consume our way out of our consumption problem, whereas a lot of things could be dealt with by things like eating less meat or flying less. But that means less consumption and we don't do that as a society.

(I, for one, love love love my water saving dishwasher. Don't know what you all had before, but my old dishwasher didn't get the dishes clean. We could only put half as many dishes as normal in it because it was so bad. My water-saving Bosch is quiet and great and I can pack it full and still have it work well. Maybe try a different detergent?)

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6 hours ago, EmilyGF said:

Compostable bags only work if people compost them, not if they throw them away. And "biodegradable" plastic bags come with a whole host of problems anyways.

I think that our problem stems (at least in large part) from the fact that we want to consume our way out of our consumption problem, whereas a lot of things could be dealt with by things like eating less meat or flying less. But that means less consumption and we don't do that as a society.

(I, for one, love love love my water saving dishwasher. Don't know what you all had before, but my old dishwasher didn't get the dishes clean. We could only put half as many dishes as normal in it because it was so bad. My water-saving Bosch is quiet and great and I can pack it full and still have it work well. Maybe try a different detergent?)

Mostly I was referring to my clothes washer. I’ve had water saver versions and returned them because our clothes stunk. 

But yes, my new Bosch is very good.

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On 7/9/2019 at 7:59 PM, aggie96 said:

My 20-something sister has lived in Bali for the last year, and the ocean/beach/trash problem there is shocking and heartbreaking. They just passed a ban on plastic bags and are dealing with pollution dues to burning the trash. Shocking and horrifying. You can see some pics and her reports by searching YouTube Tracing Thought. It’s on IG and Facebook, too. Her experience in Bali inspired me to use grocery totes now and rely on refillable water bottles instead of 12oz plastic bottles.

 

Thank you for sharing this.  I watched the video and all that plastic was disgusting.  It made me feel like we should just ban it all completely.  I'm glad they are doing something about it and hope it is not too late.  In North America we are sheltered because somehow we don't end up seeing all the garbage we produce but I'm sure we produce more.  Our planet will be covered with plastic particles for hundreds of years and it will go into our bodies.

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5 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

Mostly I was referring to my clothes washer. I’ve had water saver versions and returned them because our clothes stunk. 

But yes, my new Bosch is very good.

Yes, I had this experience with my clothes washer, too, but I persevered because all the super picky Germans I knew swore BY front loaders and swore AT top loaders. (Some of them LITERALLY boiled their towels after washing them in top loaders because they said the top loaders didn't get them clean.)

What worked for me was to totally give up on the "Normal" setting, which was rather quick, and use the "Bright Whites" setting that takes about four times as long. It still uses less electricity, because it just isn't having to handle the weight of water a top loader does, and of course the amount of water is less, AND my clothes are clean at the end.  I think the washer companies thought Americans wouldn't accept a long cycle so they made up this short cycle that is TERRIBLE and makes people think the front loader is AWFUL. But it is the stupid cycle "Normal" that shouldn't exist.

A plus is that I've cut back on detergent by so much that I've, so far, saved $300 on detergent. I use about 25% as much detergent as before. Less water = less need for detergent to get the same concentration. And that's good for the environment and good for my budget. Also, since they are so much drier at then end because of the fast spin cycle, they don't need as much energy in the drier to get dry. Win - Win - Win.

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2 hours ago, EmilyGF said:

Yes, I had this experience with my clothes washer, too, but I persevered because all the super picky Germans I knew swore BY front loaders and swore AT top loaders. (Some of them LITERALLY boiled their towels after washing them in top loaders because they said the top loaders didn't get them clean.)

What worked for me was to totally give up on the "Normal" setting, which was rather quick, and use the "Bright Whites" setting that takes about four times as long. It still uses less electricity, because it just isn't having to handle the weight of water a top loader does, and of course the amount of water is less, AND my clothes are clean at the end.  I think the washer companies thought Americans wouldn't accept a long cycle so they made up this short cycle that is TERRIBLE and makes people think the front loader is AWFUL. But it is the stupid cycle "Normal" that shouldn't exist.

A plus is that I've cut back on detergent by so much that I've, so far, saved $300 on detergent. I use about 25% as much detergent as before. Less water = less need for detergent to get the same concentration. And that's good for the environment and good for my budget. Also, since they are so much drier at then end because of the fast spin cycle, they don't need as much energy in the drier to get dry. Win - Win - Win.

That's interesting. I've always had front loaders and haven't been able to understand why they have worked so badly for some US customers.

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30 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

That's interesting. I've always had front loaders and haven't been able to understand why they have worked so badly for some US customers.

Do American front loaders heat the water, or do they just do cold and hot from the tap (and warm to mix) like US top loaders?   If not, the much, much higher temp on European front-loaders (30, 60, and 90°C, as I recall ) could also have a lot to with the difference in performance. 

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19 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Do American front loaders heat the water, or do they just do cold and hot from the tap (and warm to mix) like US top loaders?   If not, the much, much higher temp on European front-loaders (30, 60, and 90°C, as I recall ) could also have a lot to with the difference in performance. 

Depends on the setting you choose.

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1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

Do American front loaders heat the water, or do they just do cold and hot from the tap (and warm to mix) like US top loaders?   If not, the much, much higher temp on European front-loaders (30, 60, and 90°C, as I recall ) could also have a lot to with the difference in performance. 

I usually wash on cold though. The cotton programme takes over two hours.

Edited by Laura Corin

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5 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

That's interesting. I've always had front loaders and haven't been able to understand why they have worked so badly for some US customers.

My guess, or at least one of them, is that too many Americans use way too much detergent. Front loaders really need just a tiny bit. And if you're used to using a regular water hog top loader it's hard to wrap your mind around using such a tiny amount. Too much detergent hampers cleaning and causes all sorts of other problems (like build up of gunk in the machine). And unfortunately the detergent manufacturers don't do anything to discourage overuse--their directions are usually not very clear, and caps aren't well marked. If you don't do independent research, or at the very least read the machine instructions, it's really easy to use much more detergent than necessary and create all sorts of issues. Years ago I started using one of those two tablespoon shot glass measuring cups for detergent. I never use more than two tablespoons of detergent, even in the largest and dirtiest loads. I've never had a machine that didn't clean well.

But it' also very possible, maybe likely, that the machines over there are made better.

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4 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

Do American front loaders heat the water, or do they just do cold and hot from the tap (and warm to mix) like US top loaders?   If not, the much, much higher temp on European front-loaders (30, 60, and 90°C, as I recall ) could also have a lot to with the difference in performance. 

 

As far as I can tell only the machines that have a sanitize function heat water themselves.  I don't know what percentage of sales that is, but the last time I looked in stores only two out of twenty machines had that as an option, one front loader with a tiny capacity and one top loader with a very large capacity.  They cost $300-500 more than the rest of the washers in the store that day.  If I wasn't constantly dealing with sick kids and babies in diapers I doubt I would have even been looking for it, I just would have chosen one with a large capacity.

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1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

My guess, or at least one of them, is that too many Americans use way too much detergent. Front loaders really need just a tiny bit. And if you're used to using a regular water hog top loader it's hard to wrap your mind around using such a tiny amount. Too much detergent hampers cleaning and causes all sorts of other problems (like build up of gunk in the machine). And unfortunately the detergent manufacturers don't do anything to discourage overuse--their directions are usually not very clear, and caps aren't well marked. If you don't do independent research, or at the very least read the machine instructions, it's really easy to use much more detergent than necessary and create all sorts of issues. Years ago I started using one of those two tablespoon shot glass measuring cups for detergent. I never use more than two tablespoons of detergent, even in the largest and dirtiest loads. I've never had a machine that didn't clean well.

But it' also very possible, maybe likely, that the machines over there are made better.

I use even less powder than recommended by the machine manufacturer. It works well.

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1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

My guess, or at least one of them, is that too many Americans use way too much detergent. Front loaders really need just a tiny bit. And if you're used to using a regular water hog top loader it's hard to wrap your mind around using such a tiny amount. Too much detergent hampers cleaning and causes all sorts of other problems (like build up of gunk in the machine). And unfortunately the detergent manufacturers don't do anything to discourage overuse--their directions are usually not very clear, and caps aren't well marked. If you don't do independent research, or at the very least read the machine instructions, it's really easy to use much more detergent than necessary and create all sorts of issues. Years ago I started using one of those two tablespoon shot glass measuring cups for detergent. I never use more than two tablespoons of detergent, even in the largest and dirtiest loads. I've never had a machine that didn't clean well.

But it' also very possible, maybe likely, that the machines over there are made better.

I had that problem with my first run with German washers when I lived abroad. Now I use kitchen measuring spoons to measure my detergent. But they definitely try to make you use way too much. (And some people think more = better.)

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1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

My guess, or at least one of them, is that too many Americans use way too much detergent. Front loaders really need just a tiny bit. And if you're used to using a regular water hog top loader it's hard to wrap your mind around using such a tiny amount. Too much detergent hampers cleaning and causes all sorts of other problems (like build up of gunk in the machine). And unfortunately the detergent manufacturers don't do anything to discourage overuse--their directions are usually not very clear, and caps aren't well marked. If you don't do independent research, or at the very least read the machine instructions, it's really easy to use much more detergent than necessary and create all sorts of issues. Years ago I started using one of those two tablespoon shot glass measuring cups for detergent. I never use more than two tablespoons of detergent, even in the largest and dirtiest loads. I've never had a machine that didn't clean well.

But it' also very possible, maybe likely, that the machines over there are made better.

I agree. I use only a tiny bit of detergent and don't have the problems other people complain about. My MIL cannot wrap her head around the idea of using a tablespoon or so of detergent. Lol. (or hanging laundry to dry, but that's another story...)

I also cannot fathom the amount of money some people claim to spend on detergents and cleaners. A bottle of laundry detergent lasts me over a year (yes, I date my bottles), a bottle of dish soap lasts even longer, I buy Windex maybe once every 5 years...I still have supplies I bought when we lived in Canada over 8 years ago! Lol. 

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4 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

I usually wash on cold though. The cotton programme takes over two hours.

Hm. Do you mean the coldest setting your machine has to select, or does it just use cold water from your pipes? I could swear that the German machines  (really the only ones I'm familiar with) didn't have a setting lower than the 30°C, because I remember worrying about it, as I wash almost everything on cold here, and there was nothing colder than 30°C to choose. 30°C is probably closer to our 'warm' setting,  although it's not an exact science here, as 'warm' literally just mixes the unheated water from the tap with the water from the hot water heater, which is different by house depending on how it's set, but I think is never supposed to be hotter than 120°F, so people don't scald themselves. That's only about 49°C, so our hottest cycle still colder than the 'medium' setting on the European ones I've seen.

Edited by Matryoshka

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2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

My guess, or at least one of them, is that too many Americans use way too much detergent. Front loaders really need just a tiny bit. And if you're used to using a regular water hog top loader it's hard to wrap your mind around using such a tiny amount. Too much detergent hampers cleaning and causes all sorts of other problems (like build up of gunk in the machine). And unfortunately the detergent manufacturers don't do anything to discourage overuse--their directions are usually not very clear, and caps aren't well marked. If you don't do independent research, or at the very least read the machine instructions, it's really easy to use much more detergent than necessary and create all sorts of issues. Years ago I started using one of those two tablespoon shot glass measuring cups for detergent. I never use more than two tablespoons of detergent, even in the largest and dirtiest loads. I've never had a machine that didn't clean well.

But it' also very possible, maybe likely, that the machines over there are made better.

I'm going to guess a couple of factors come into play.
Our European washers were about half the size of our American ones.  It's why our laundry baskets in our house are still small - filled to the top that was one load.
Water issues.  Our water in some areas of the states was so bad that without a proper amount of detergent the minerals in the water would just cling to the dirt and make the clothes worse than when they went in.

Americans still tend to use too much detergent and additives to perfume and coat the clothes when the detergents don't "work" because they've built up, but the above really doesn't help either.
Our detergent comes in a gallon jar with a pump.  One pump (1 Tablespoon) for small loads, 2 pumps for regular sized.  Dh and I considered getting the 5 gallon bucket and filling our own bottles, but decided the minimal savings was negligible over the 2.5 years it would take us to go through it.

Edited by HomeAgain
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56 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Hm. Do you mean the coldest setting your machine has to select, or does it just use cold water from your pipes? I could swear that the German machines  (really the only ones I'm familiar with) didn't have a setting lower than the 30°C, because I remember worrying about it, as I wash almost everything on cold here, and there was nothing colder than 30°C to choose. 30°C is probably closer to our 'warm' setting,  although it's not an exact science here, as 'warm' literally just mixes the unheated water from the tap with the water from the hot water heater, which is different by house depending on how it's set, but I think is never supposed to be hotter than 120°F, so people don't scald themselves. That's only about 49°C, so our hottest cycle still colder than the 'medium' setting on the European ones I've seen.

It's cold from the tap, which is pretty chilly in Scotland. It's a Zanussi, which is an Italian brand.

IMG_20190711_134038932.jpg

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I think part of the front loader issue in the States has been mold. The class action lawsuits already took out one manufacturer and looks like more could follow. I’m not sure why ours mold and ones in Europe and elsewhere don’t- at least the ones here made in the last 10-15 years is when it seemed to start.  If you Google Frontload washers and lawsuit you’ll be able to read up on it for days. What’s ironic is they still sell them and it doesn’t seem like they actually fixed or changed anything..... 

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15 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

It's cold from the tap, which is pretty chilly in Scotland. It's a Zanussi, which is an Italian brand.

IMG_20190711_134038932.jpg

Okay, so is 'cold from the tap' option the little picture at the bottom with the asterisk in it below the 30ºC? I don't have symbols or temps, it just says Hot, Warm, or Cold on my old top-loader, so I'm symbol challenged, lol.  I'm fairly sure that option didn't exist on the German machines I used (this is also probably 30 years ago I'm remembering from!)

Edited by Matryoshka
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On 7/10/2019 at 6:50 AM, Ausmumof3 said:

For one thing reusable bags collapse whereas baskets take up space in between shopping trips.  Not such a problem if you have a close local shop and do regular daily shopping in small batches but if I needed enough baskets for my weekly shop they’ve be a pain.

I agree.  I love the idea of only using reusable bags (or baskets!), and hate what plastic bags are doing to the environment and animals.  But we've become such a different society today.  It used to be that everyone shopped at the corner market, and even then only got what they needed for a day or two.  There weren't so many options of food either, just the basics.  My dad grew up with an icebox, and they weren't even able to store cold things more than a couple days in the summer.  Most of us don't live like that anymore (although I've seen this still in other countries I've visited), but that type of environment is definitely more conducive to using a small reusable bag and not so much packaging and plastic.  

Not only do we not shop like that much anymore, but we order so much online (of course I do too) so then we have even more packaging and styrofoam etc.   I guess that all veers more into the topic of how can we be more environmentally conscious in this day and age in a way that doesn't feel complicated?  I'd love more ideas on that.

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Last night I thought of a specific one that really annoys me.   Paper Recycling.    You are probably saying to yourself, what can she have against the poor, little innocent idea of paper recycling? 

The problem is that landfills are basically compost piles that don't get turned  (and therefore take longer).    If you have ever composted you know what happens if the compost has not enough roughage.   It turns into this icky liquidy soup that will take forever to decompose.  My former large suburb discovered this.    They had a really good recycling program.    They also took the yard waste/tree branches and ground them up into mulch that any resident could get for free.   So, the landfill was getting extremely little roughage, and when they went to turn the landfill and instead of being done it was a soupy/slidy mess.   So, then instead of giving away the mulch they added it to the landfill.   Despite the fact that recycled paper had negative value.   Meaning that they had to PAY someone to take the recycled paper.   So, we sacrifice something that has a genuine, immediate use, mulch, for something with negative value.  

Then you add a study that showed that people used a lot more paper when they know it will be recycled.  They told me they were testing scissors and asked them to cut out various shapes.  When there was a recycling bucket clearly displayed people cut a LOT bigger shapes and used a lot more paper.  . 
 

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35 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Okay, so is 'cold from the tap' option the little picture at the bottom with the asterisk in it below the 30ºC? I don't have symbols or temps, it just says Hot, Warm, or Cold on my old top-loader, so I'm symbol challenged, lol.  I'm fairly sure that option didn't exist on the German machines I used (this is also probably 30 years ago I'm remembering from!)

Yes, that's right.

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The public is so ignorant and gullible that it is very easy for them to be deceived about environmental issues. For instance, many young people think electric cars are totally clean because they think they don't run on fossil fuels and have zero emissions. Some electric car manufacturers even advertise that their vehicles have zero emissions.That may be true in some countries and areas, but where I live, electricity predominantly comes from coal power plants. People don't see the emissions coming out of the car, and they don't have the critical thinking skills to realize that many of these electric cars are actually running on fossil fuels, and the emissions are spewing out of the power plant. And in much of the U.S., coal-powered energy is the biggest contributor of greenhouse gases. (Don't misinterpret this post, I am in favor of cleaner and renewable forms of energy. My previous job was engineering systems for cleaner emissions at coal-powered plants.) This is a pretty good article on the subject: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electric-cars-are-not-necessarily-clean/

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My washing machine, a one year old HE top loading Maytag, has these water temperature options:

Tap cold

Cold

Cool

Warm

Hot

Tap cold here right now would be (to me) almost lukewarm. In the winter it would definitely be downright chilly.

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50 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I think part of the front loader issue in the States has been mold. The class action lawsuits already took out one manufacturer and looks like more could follow. I’m not sure why ours mold and ones in Europe and elsewhere don’t- at least the ones here made in the last 10-15 years is when it seemed to start.  If you Google Frontload washers and lawsuit you’ll be able to read up on it for days. What’s ironic is they still sell them and it doesn’t seem like they actually fixed or changed anything..... 

I just checked my washer and it has no mould.  According to this article, fabric softeners and some detergents contain animal fats, so if you put in too much, it will accumulate and grow mouldy, then attract bacteria:

https://lakeappliancerepair.com/blog/what-happens-when-you-use-too-much-soap-in-your-washing-machine/

 

Complaint #2: “My washing machine has a foul odor and/or causes a pungent odor in my clothing”

The nasty odor coming from your washing machine is very likely the result of using too much liquid fabric softener and soap over an extended period of time. Some laundry detergents and nearly all fabric softeners contain a small amount of animal fat. When you use too much of these products, the fat will congeal and gum up on the lower part of the machine under the tub. In most cases, this area of the machine is not accessible to consumers, so it is very difficult to clean. Using too much soap over a period of 6 months to 1 year will cause this goo to grow.

As the congealed soap scum forms, mold, dirt, and bacteria stick to the goo, which in turn creates a very nasty odor.

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26 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

My washing machine, a one year old HE top loading Maytag, has these water temperature options:

Tap cold

Cold

Cool

Warm

Hot

Tap cold here right now would be (to me) almost lukewarm. In the winter it would definitely be downright chilly.

I am scratching my head over the difference between tap cold, cold and cool??.🧐

What is the difference? And how does the machine change it? Just curious. I know half the time when I select "Cold" On my SQ I'm actually getting warm for the first 1/2 because it's a 1000 degrees outside and it takes forever to get cold water! 

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3 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I am scratching my head over the difference between tap cold, cold and cool??.🧐

What is the difference? And how does the machine change it? Just curious. I know half the time when I select "Cold" On my SQ I'm actually getting warm for the first 1/2 because it's a 1000 degrees outside and it takes forever to get cold water! 

LOL, I was thinking the same thing.  I think all US machines, other than the newer front-loaders with the 'sanitary' cycle, just mix from the hot and cold taps in varying proportions and it's guesswork how cold or warm or hot the water actually ends up being.  I tried to explain that to the Germans I lived with and they couldn't wrap their heads around it - how could we wash our clothes in some indeterminate temp that depends only on how warm or cold the water is in the pipes depending on the weather, and on the other end, how high various people set their hot water heaters?  It's going to be different from season to season and house to house. Where's the precision?  😂  There, for all the cycles the machine heated the water to a specific temperature (or maybe didn't have to much if it was only 30ºC - but it was still measured...).  I'm almost certain there was no 'from the tap' option then, as I was worried my cheapo US clothes would shrink or run on their hotter temps, and that's why we had these weird conversations...

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3 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

LOL, I was thinking the same thing.  I think all US machines, other than the newer front-loaders with the 'sanitary' cycle, just mix from the hot and cold taps in varying proportions and it's guesswork how cold or warm or hot the water actually ends up being.  I tried to explain that to the Germans I lived with and they couldn't wrap their heads around it - how could we wash our clothes in some indeterminate temp that depends only on how warm or cold the water is in the pipes depending on the weather, and on the other end, how high various people set their hot water heaters?  It's going to be different from season to season and house to house. Where's the precision?  😂  There, for all the cycles the machine heated the water to a specific temperature (or maybe didn't have to much if it was only 30ºC - but it was still measured...).  I'm almost certain there was no 'from the tap' option then, as I was worried my cheapo US clothes would shrink or run on their hotter temps, and that's why we had these weird conversations...

Meanwhile they US Engineers are worrying more about chrome and color options. "They're Americans. They don't even know the metric system! They'll never understand precision, so why waste our time? Let's just give them RED washers and dryers with lots of chrome and they'll be thrilled!" 

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Well I am glad someone mentioned stinky front loader washers.  Here I thought I had bought the only stupidly designed washer.  I am certain this is something they could fix in the design process!  So annoying, and I'm sure some people aren't able to keep it clean even if they try.  And I was not warned before buying.  Gruff gruff!!

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21 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

LOL, I was thinking the same thing.  I think all US machines, other than the newer front-loaders with the 'sanitary' cycle, just mix from the hot and cold taps in varying proportions and it's guesswork how cold or warm or hot the water actually ends up being.  

I remember hearing about a US expat coming to London on a generous moving allowance who insisted on bringing their top-loading washing machine over (despite then needing a transformer for the voltage difference) only to then find that the flat was not plumbed with hot water in the utility corner.  The landlord was unwilling to have holes tunnelled through the walls to pipe hot water to the washing machine, so it was cold water wash from then on.

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Yeah, we don't have "tap cold" either.  I never really thought about the hot in my new clothes washing machine - maybe it heats it, maybe not.  (Dishwashers do obviously.)  Generally we wash everything in the same (warm) temperature unless it needs hand washing.  The exception is school whites, which would need hotter water I guess, but then again, I'm not sure it makes a ton of difference.

Edited by SKL

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3 minutes ago, SKL said:

Well I am glad someone mentioned stinky front loader washers.  Here I thought I had bought the only stupidly designed washer.  I am certain this is something they could fix in the design process!  So annoying, and I'm sure some people aren't able to keep it clean even if they try.  And I was not warned before buying.  Gruff gruff!!

If you are using more than a tablespoon of powder, try cleaning the machine then minimising the powder and conditioner.

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2 minutes ago, SKL said:

Well I am glad someone mentioned stinky front loader washers.  Here I thought I had bought the only stupidly designed washer.  I am certain this is something they could fix in the design process!  So annoying, and I'm sure some people aren't able to keep it clean even if they try.  And I was not warned before buying.  Gruff gruff!!


You can buy stuff to clean out the inside of the front-loader.    It is pretty harsh.    Once you have it clean, occasionally run a cycle with vinegar in the soap dispenser.  Some loads benefit from a vinegar rinse, so you get double benefit. 

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1 hour ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I am scratching my head over the difference between tap cold, cold and cool??.🧐

What is the difference? And how does the machine change it? Just curious. I know half the time when I select "Cold" On my SQ I'm actually getting warm for the first 1/2 because it's a 1000 degrees outside and it takes forever to get cold water! 

 

1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

LOL, I was thinking the same thing.  I think all US machines, other than the newer front-loaders with the 'sanitary' cycle, just mix from the hot and cold taps in varying proportions and it's guesswork how cold or warm or hot the water actually ends up being.  I tried to explain that to the Germans I lived with and they couldn't wrap their heads around it - how could we wash our clothes in some indeterminate temp that depends only on how warm or cold the water is in the pipes depending on the weather, and on the other end, how high various people set their hot water heaters?  It's going to be different from season to season and house to house. Where's the precision?  😂  There, for all the cycles the machine heated the water to a specific temperature (or maybe didn't have to much if it was only 30ºC - but it was still measured...).  I'm almost certain there was no 'from the tap' option then, as I was worried my cheapo US clothes would shrink or run on their hotter temps, and that's why we had these weird conversations...

Okay, I took one for the team and invested the time to find my washer's manual. This is what it says about the different water temperature settings:

Tap Cold: This is the temperature from your faucet. 

Cold: Warm water may be added to assist in soil removal and to help dissolve detergents.

Cool: Warm water is added to assist in soil removal and to help dissolve detergents. Cool is slightly warmer than cold.

Warm: Some cold water will be added, so this will be cooler than what your previous washer provided.

Hot: Some cold water is added to save energy. This will be cooler than your hot water setting.

 

And that's all decidedly unhelpful, really. How much better would it be if there was a heating element and we knew exact water temperatures? But there's that energy efficiency thing again. 

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56 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

 

Okay, I took one for the team and invested the time to find my washer's manual. This is what it says about the different water temperature settings:

Tap Cold: This is the temperature from your faucet. 

Cold: Warm water may be added to assist in soil removal and to help dissolve detergents.

Cool: Warm water is added to assist in soil removal and to help dissolve detergents. Cool is slightly warmer than cold.

Warm: Some cold water will be added, so this will be cooler than what your previous washer provided.

Hot: Some cold water is added to save energy. This will be cooler than your hot water setting.

 

And that's all decidedly unhelpful, really. How much better would it be if there was a heating element and we knew exact water temperatures? But there's that energy efficiency thing again. 

I'm glad they clarified that for all of us, LOL.

It's just as well we don't have heating elements in them here- just something else to break is the way I feel about any addition to appliances these days. My current wish is for a dryer without a sensor. I hate the stupid sensor in my LG. I feel like I do nothing but argue with it. It leaves me with damp towels all the time. But throw ONE thing in that wasn't supposed to be dried on a heat setting and it'll run for 90 minutes instead of shutting off when it's supposed to....🤬 

I think the goal is somehow to have us all beating our clothes on rocks and line drying before it's all said and done. I read somewhere on BBC earlier this week there's some environmental movement toward not washing clothes at all and just spot cleaning. 😳

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Here's the article- it says they edited the original "to clarify details". 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-48908413

But not washing jeans EVER is super gross imo. And I get treating high end fabrics well, but just brushing off dirt isn't going to remove sweat or odors. Count me as one chick not on board with that movement. Blech. 

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54 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Here's the article- it says they edited the original "to clarify details". 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-48908413

But not washing jeans EVER is super gross imo. And I get treating high end fabrics well, but just brushing off dirt isn't going to remove sweat or odors. Count me as one chick not on board with that movement. Blech. 

 

Count me out too.   I tend toward non-observant and I have no sense of smell.  The results would be cartoon-ish bad if I stopped washing everything after wearing it.  

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I have those same temp settings on my cheapest-available-at-Home-Depot top-loader; I wonder if they're mixing cold with my hot for the Hot setting too!  Ooh, that is irritating.  I rarely use Hot, mostly tap cold, but when I do want to wash something on Hot it's not because I want it slightly cooler than Hot, kwim?  

 

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1 hour ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Here's the article- it says they edited the original "to clarify details". 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-48908413

But not washing jeans EVER is super gross imo. And I get treating high end fabrics well, but just brushing off dirt isn't going to remove sweat or odors. Count me as one chick not on board with that movement. Blech. 

We had an exchange student this past year who brought his own small pillow from home. It didn't have a pillow case on it. He was also a swimmer and played water polo 3-4 times/week. I asked him several times if he wanted to wash his pillow or swimming towels. He always said no and never washed them the 10 months he was here. I think he also washed his clothes maybe 4 or 5 times total. I understood the towels, since they always dried out between uses and he was always clean when he dried off, but the pillow looked dirty both when he arrived and when he left!

I wish I could wear my clothes more than once without having a left over odor. I wonder sometimes if Americans are too focused on always being clean and never stinking. I think the dirt (and associated stinking) are sometimes good for our health.

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1 hour ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Here's the article- it says they edited the original "to clarify details". 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-48908413

But not washing jeans EVER is super gross imo. And I get treating high end fabrics well, but just brushing off dirt isn't going to remove sweat or odors. Count me as one chick not on board with that movement. Blech. 

Where do these people live? And they need to try that in the SOUTH. I guarantee you they won't make it very long without their clothes smelling like STANK.

 

There's no way that will ever happen here. I live in the SOUTH. Humidity, heat, and sweat for a large proportion of the year and it doesn't matter if you just sit in an office, if you leave air conditioning for more than 5 minutes, you will get moist, damp clothes. 

Not to mention that many many many of us use jeans to WORK. Yeah. Outside. With cow crap. And dirt. And more SWEAT. I had to take my laundry basket and set it outside our bedroom door the other day because I couldn't sleep. My dh's clothes stank that bad!

We can re-wear bras in the winter, but not doing it in the summer. Going out to the mailbox makes things awfully moist.

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1 hour ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Here's the article- it says they edited the original "to clarify details". 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-48908413

But not washing jeans EVER is super gross imo. And I get treating high end fabrics well, but just brushing off dirt isn't going to remove sweat or odors. Count me as one chick not on board with that movement. Blech. 

People wash their jeans? Like regularly? 

Honestly I rarely wash my clothes. Not like never, but unless I've been hiking (then always because ticks) or I got really sweaty (workout clothes) then I wear almost everything repeatedly. I know I have things like dresses and sweaters I've never washed...they just don't need it. I'm not stinky and if I just wear it to work or around the house it can't get dirty. 

DS washes everything, every time. I'd mention considering washing less frequently except he's a teenager, so it's probably for the best. Lol

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40 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Where do these people live? And they need to try that in the SOUTH. I guarantee you they won't make it very long without their clothes smelling like STANK.

 

There's no way that will ever happen here. I live in the SOUTH. Humidity, heat, and sweat for a large proportion of the year and it doesn't matter if you just sit in an office, if you leave air conditioning for more than 5 minutes, you will get moist, damp clothes. 

Not to mention that many many many of us use jeans to WORK. Yeah. Outside. With cow crap. And dirt. And more SWEAT. I had to take my laundry basket and set it outside our bedroom door the other day because I couldn't sleep. My dh's clothes stank that bad!

We can re-wear bras in the winter, but not doing it in the summer. Going out to the mailbox makes things awfully moist.

When I worked at a University, we always had visiting academics from around the world. Typical dress at this place for most of them was full on business attire which meant suits for the men. And yes, it gets HOT here unlike where many were from.......And that was when I discovered that love of deodorant and antiperspirant was not a universal thing. I started taking the stairs because I almost passed out several times in elevators from the BO smell. I cannot get used to that. Ever. I cannot imagine that odor lingering in clothes forever. And that's not even to mention food and cooking smells that can linger on clothes and hair. There's a reason people used to douse themselves in perfumed oil, just sayin'. 😛

And yes on the jeans!! 

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1 hour ago, wilrunner said:

We had an exchange student this past year who brought his own small pillow from home. It didn't have a pillow case on it. He was also a swimmer and played water polo 3-4 times/week. I asked him several times if he wanted to wash his pillow or swimming towels. He always said no and never washed them the 10 months he was here. I think he also washed his clothes maybe 4 or 5 times total. I understood the towels, since they always dried out between uses and he was always clean when he dried off, but the pillow looked dirty both when he arrived and when he left!

 

 

Reminded me of this.

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6 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Here's the article- it says they edited the original "to clarify details". 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-48908413

But not washing jeans EVER is super gross imo. And I get treating high end fabrics well, but just brushing off dirt isn't going to remove sweat or odors. Count me as one chick not on board with that movement. Blech. 

Lol I’m with you!

i remember some fashion dude doing an interview and stating that jeans should never be washed so they can mould to your body and develop character.

I’m like - bud - you have clearly never cleaned out a chicken coop!

besides those skinny jeans have to be washed to fit or they just keep stretching out and end up falling off.

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A lot of these things drive me crazy.  Ultimately they aren't even solutions in many cases they are marketing ploys, which make things worse.

I suspect though that the daily shopping issue might take care of itself.  The kind of transportation we have now is not sustainable, even with electric cars powered by renewables.  People are going to need to walk and bike and bus far more often and it will necessitate a change in shopping habits.  I'd guess it will require people to grow a lot more food close to home as well. Towns and cities and subdivisions are just going to have to adapt.

Probably the one that drives me the most crazy is the claim that veganism is the answer.  Probably because it doesn't even have the obvious answer that it is a greed driven claim.  It would be just as easy to say, significantly reduce your animal product consumption based on your local ecology.  The almond milk issue is a good example - I'm supposed to do what amounts to shipping water out of California, an area prone to drought, I am essentially contributing to draining their aquifers and killing their rivers.  Then shipping the stuff 4000 km.  When I live in a place that is ideal for dairy cows, where there is plenty of water for them to drink and to grow what is fed to them apart from the grass, which the rain would fall on anyway.  (And which doesn't disappear, after all, they pee it out again, or I do after I drink the milk.)

We're all going to have to get used to much simpler food I suspect, much more like what our ancestors ate, and not nearly the variety at a fingertip.

I think the only way to cut down on the waste from products is to make companies responsible for reclaiming them and making use of them when they are finished being used.  Then there will be an incentive to make them truly reusable and based on recoverable components.

 

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I don't get the jeans thing either.  The crotch of jeans get sniffy if you don't wash them, even in Canada in the winter. I am a big believer in only washing when required, but never is odd.

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I'd like people to believe I use reusable bags because it's better for the environment, but the real reason is that I'm lazy and want to make fewer trips from the car.  Also, I'm cheap.  I shop at Aldi's a lot AND I refuse to pay for their bags.  It was actually someone on this forum who told me about the collapsible grocery boxes.  I love them and cashiers love them too. 

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1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

I'd like people to believe I use reusable bags because it's better for the environment, but the real reason is that I'm lazy and want to make fewer trips from the car.  Also, I'm cheap.  I shop at Aldi's a lot AND I refuse to pay for their bags.  It was actually someone on this forum who told me about the collapsible grocery boxes.  I love them and cashiers love them too. 

Can you link said collapsable grocery boxes you use? I would like some for my SUV but the ones I found at Tuesday Morning made it a whole 6 months before they just became collapsed and lost the "ible" part. 

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On 7/9/2019 at 6:39 AM, Quill said:

The thing that springs immediaely to mind for me is appliances. They are made to be so energy efficient and have to meet certain criteria in order to get the Energy Star cert, but they freaking break down in five years or less! We have lived in this house seventeen years now and just had to repair our third fridge. And we have had to replace: ovens, dishwasher and washing machine (twice). And this Friday we have to replace one of our two AC units; presumably we will soon have to replace the other as well, but we are kicking the can down the road as far as we can because it’s $$$$. 

 

We are on our 3rd fridge in the last 9 years.  Best Buy doesn't give out 5 yr fridge warranties anymore, just 3 yrs - bc evidently they break down after about 4 yrs

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