Can random summer camps and community classes count as high school credit? Particularly in regard to Fine Arts and PE?

[pitterpatter]

DD is a rising 7th grader. In the back of my mind I thought that maybe we would enroll her in the local high school for the upper grades (not sure why I would honestly think this). It's becoming clear that we are just not going to be doing that. So, I'm studying up on high school homeschool options.

Is there an article somewhere that explains how to assign credit for high school classes? We are rural and have limited easy options for physical education and fine arts. If I sign her up for a variety of one-off art classes at various art studios via Girl Scouts and perhaps the St. Louis Art Museum, etc., can these count as high school fine arts credits?

How about canoeing, paddle boarding, archery, etc. classes through Girl Scouts? Or, independent scuba lessons? Can these count as credits for physical education? What about a week-long horse camp or whitewater rafting (not that she'll do the latter, lol)? Is there a list of what sports count as physical education? What about various science camps? Can those count for something?

Also, if I can assign credit for the above mentioned options, can we spread the credits out over a couple of years? One hundred fifty hours (or is it one hundred eighty) seems like a lot of art and PE to keep up with. Can she complete maybe 1/4 credit of each per semester for two years? TIA!

Edited June 18, 2019 by pitterpatter

[CAJinBE]

I kept track of dd's hours participating in her volleyball club plus any other physical activity she participated in such as running, biking, horseback riding. Every 180 hours counted as one credit. We did this for two years. She had at least six hours of volleyball a week alone which gave her a full credit each year. 

[BrittiBop16]

I have done some research on this and yes, I have seen people break credits up over multiple years. So long as you end up with the number of credits that colleges want to see, you should be fine. For example, if 1 PE credit is required, then some people will count 0.25 credits every year. You will still end up with the 1 credit, regardless of how you broke it up.

Hmm...for my 9th grader I'm counting 120 hours for PE, using a combination of a Track & Field summer camp, a weekly homeschool gym program at our local parks and rec center, and any physical activities at home (bike rides, Xbox Kinect, etc). Is 120 hours too few? I figured if it's good enough for a Carnegie credit hour then it should be good enough for an elective like PE or art. I could be wrong though...

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by BrittiBop16

[pitterpatter]

I thought I read that a Carnegie credit is 120 hours but also assumes the student will complete at least another 30 hours of work outside of the classroom. I'm not sure how this relates to PE and Fine Arts, though. Perhaps the bike rides, XBox Kinect, etc. count as the extra 30 hours? For us, it would be DD practicing swimming on her own and family hiking for the extra thirty. I'd be happy to hear we can do the straight 120 hours, though. 😁

25 minutes ago, BrittiBop16 said:

I have done some research on this and yes, I have seen people break credits up over multiple years. So long as you end up with the number of credits that colleges want to see, you should be fine. For example, if 1 PE credit is required, then some people will count 0.25 credits every year. You will still end up with the 1 credit, regardless of how you broke it up.

Hmm...for my 9th grader I'm counting 120 hours for PE, using a combination of a Track & Field summer camp, a weekly homeschool gym program at our local parks and rec center, and any physical activities at home (bike rides, Xbox Kinect, etc). Is 120 hours too few? I figured if it's good enough for a Carnegie credit hour then it should be good enough for an elective like PE or art. I could be wrong though...

 

 

[pitterpatter]

This does say that 120 hours is fine for electives (art is mentioned as one), but are the initial required PE and art credits electives?

https://hslda.org/content/highschool/docs/evaluatingcredits.asp

35 minutes ago, BrittiBop16 said:

I have done some research on this and yes, I have seen people break credits up over multiple years. So long as you end up with the number of credits that colleges want to see, you should be fine. For example, if 1 PE credit is required, then some people will count 0.25 credits every year. You will still end up with the 1 credit, regardless of how you broke it up.

Hmm...for my 9th grader I'm counting 120 hours for PE, using a combination of a Track & Field summer camp, a weekly homeschool gym program at our local parks and rec center, and any physical activities at home (bike rides, Xbox Kinect, etc). Is 120 hours too few? I figured if it's good enough for a Carnegie credit hour then it should be good enough for an elective like PE or art. I could be wrong though...

 

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by pitterpatter

[8filltheheart]

You get to determine how you define credits. I have given PE credit for everything from rock climbing to figure skating to walking on a tread mill.

Fine arts credits have been just as varied--Great Courses music or art history lectures, community choir, guitar, band, etc.

[Lawyer&Mom]

I took PE independent study at my public school due to a scheduling conflict.  I used my Lifeguard certification course to meet my required hours.  I could have just walked around the block, so long as I kept track of my hours.  I also had a write a two page paper on nutrition... Um, yeah.  You’ll be fine.

[BrittiBop16]

I see what you're saying. Here https://welltrainedmind.com/a/how-to-assign-high-school-credits/ it lists PE as a core class and art as an elective. As a core, we would think PE should fall on the higher end of 120-180 hours. 

I wonder, too, if you could go off what your state grad requirements are. For example, in MD, students only need half a PE credit and 1 Fine Arts credit to graduate. In MD specifically though, as homeschoolers, we don't have to do any more than is required by the local high schools. I take that to mean I would be good with 120 hrs since that's more than half a credit anyway.

As for art, maybe you could do an Art Appreciation class for the extra hours? I'm having my daughter do the one on Easy Peasy. That site also has a Music Appreciation course. My daughter also takes clarinet lessons, so that (plus time spent practicing clarinet at home) plus the EP Art course will make up her full Fine Arts credit. 

Edited June 18, 2019 by BrittiBop16

[pitterpatter]

Thank you! I'm not sure how I missed this. One hundred twenty hours feels much more doable. I need to purchase a new copy of TWTM. Mine's the 2004 edition.

14 minutes ago, BrittiBop16 said:

I see what you're saying. Here https://welltrainedmind.com/a/how-to-assign-high-school-credits/ it lists PE as a core class and art as an elective. As a core, we would think PE should fall on the higher end of 120-180 hours. 

I wonder, too, if you could go off what your state grad requirements are. For example, in MD, students only need half a PE credit and 1 Fine Arts credit to graduate. In MD specifically though, as homeschoolers, we don't have to do any more than is required by the local high schools. I take that to mean I would be good with 120 hrs since that's more than half a credit anyway.

As for art, maybe you could do an Art Appreciation class for the extra hours? I'm having my daughter do the one on Easy Peasy. That site also has a Music Appreciation course. My daughter also takes clarinet lessons, so that (plus time spent practicing clarinet at home) plus the EP Art course will make up her full Fine Arts credit. 

 

[pitterpatter]

That's great. Lol.

21 minutes ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

I took PE independent study at my public school due to a scheduling conflict.  I used my Lifeguard certification course to meet my required hours.  I could have just walked around the block, so long as I kept track of my hours.  I also had a write a two page paper on nutrition... Um, yeah.  You’ll be fine.

 

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, BrittiBop16 said:

I see what you're saying. Here https://welltrainedmind.com/a/how-to-assign-high-school-credits/ it lists PE as a core class and art as an elective. As a core, we would think PE should fall on the higher end of 120-180 hours. 

Who says?  Really, the thing to ask is if colleges require PE credits to apply.  None of the colleges my kids applied to did.  Like any subject, it's best to look backwards at what the colleges your kid's interested in require, or if it's somehow codified in your state's homeschooling law (ours says nothing about PE).  

My older two did have PE credits - one went to PS for HS. Our local high school - which is very highly rated - only requires 2 credits over four years, typically .5 credit a year, of PE, but you can waive .5 credit of it if you want to take more academic classes.  So, no 120-180 credits a year there - half that at most.  My other older kid went to PS for 2 years, but only took 1 semester of PE.  She was also a dancer, so I used that to round out her PE credits.

My youngest did mostly CC for high school (attending state flagship in the fall), and I couldn't get her interested in any kind of sport or physical activity (she'd done plenty when she was younger).  She was also having some chronic pain, which I think was a big part of that disinterest.  So, she has Zero PE credits on her high school transcript.  Not so good for her personal fitness level, but for stuff like college admittance, I think it's a non-issue.  I wouldn't suggest being as much as a potato as she has, but I also wouldn't obsess about counting hours or making it a full credit every year or thinking of it as a 'core class'.  

And I'd totally count any outside programs your kid participates in as PE or art as it makes sense.  I would actually be more worried about the other direction - more than .5 a credit of PE a year on a transcript to me looks like padding - surplus "PE" hours over that to me should be extracurricular.  

[Lori D.]

4 hours ago, pitterpatter said:

... If I sign her up for a variety of one-off art classes at various art studios via Girl Scouts and perhaps the St. Louis Art Museum, etc., can these count as high school fine arts credits?

How about canoeing, paddle boarding, archery, etc. classes through Girl Scouts? Or, independent scuba lessons? Can these count as credits for physical education? What about a week-long horse camp or whitewater rafting (not that she'll do the latter, lol)? ...

... What about various science camps? Can those count for something?

Also, if I can assign credit for the above mentioned options, can we spread the credits out over a couple of years? One hundred fifty hours (or is it one hundred eighty) seems like a lot of art and PE to keep up with. Can she complete maybe 1/4 credit of each per semester for two years? TIA!

Yes, all of that works great for accruing credits.

The only thing I'd suggest is that if you have a great extracurricular (like the Science Camp you mention above), listing them on the separate Extracurriculars document can really make those activities and all the skills that the student developed "shine" -- while folding the activities in as part of a credit "hides" them under a generic course heading and amount of credit on a transcript. So, just something to bear in mind.

 

4 hours ago, pitterpatter said:

Is there an article somewhere that explains how to assign credit for high school classes?

 

Below, I'm copy-pasting from a past post of mine about assigning credit. You'll find quite a few helpful past posts on credits, grading, and record keeping on PAGE 5 of the pinned thread "High School Motherlode #2", at the top of the High School Board.

________________________

A credit is more than just the hours -- it is volume/rigor of material + time for completion. So that's why you can get so much variation. Different students are working at different levels of rigor, and at different speeds so that changes how much volume they can cover, and how much time it takes to cover it. The main thing is to make sure you are using mostly high school level (or above) materials.

1. Completion of a textbook or program is the easiest way to award credit (as is typical with Math, Science, Foreign Language, or Logic).

2. If it is a DIY course, in advance, write out what materials will be used and what output is expected, and as you go along, use hours spent on the course to decide if you need to make adjustments in the load.

3. But with credits that are more "fuzzy" about time and volume of work (like English and Social Studies), it's useful to not only look at the overall volume and level of work (is it of high school level), but also to look at amount of time spent on the credit, in order to stay roughly equivalent in what you are calling "1.0 credit". This chart of how many hours go into a credit-hours may be helpful:

. . . . . .   minimum .average . maximum
1.00 credit =  120 . . . 150 . . . 180  hours
0.75 credit =   90 . . . 110 . . . 135  hours
0.66 credit =   80 . . . 100 . .  120  hours
0.50 credit =   60 . . .  75 . .. . 90  hours
0.33 credit =   40 . . .  50 .  . . 60  hours
0.25 credit =   30 . . .. 35 .. . . 45  hours

The 120 hour minimum comes from the Carnegie Credit and refers to the minimum teacher/classroom contact hours for 1 credit (it is usually understood that there will ALSO be additional work done *outside of class* that counts towards the credit). The 180 hour maximum comes from public schools which typically are required to meet for 180 days per year -- so 1 hour/day x 5 days/week x 36 weeks/school year = 180 hours. However, most public school classes actually meet for 40-50 minutes per day, BUT, regular homework is assumed to fill up that shorter class time back up to 1 full hour of time. In general, if you shoot for the average, and you fill out 135 to 165 hours for most of your classes, then the credits on your transcript come out to be roughly equivalent. But, of course, there are lots of exceptions to that (:D -- such as:

- English and Science classes usually take much closer to 180 hours (or a bit over), due to the extra time needed for reading/writing, and for labs

- some required classes will inevitably end up more as "box checking" classes if the student has a low interest in them -- for example Economics, Government, PE, or Health -- and often, once you complete the program, you find your hours often fall much closer to 120 hours (or 60 hours if just a 1 semester/0.5 credit course)

- dual enrollment courses sometimes cover more advanced material, but in a shorter period of time, so you'll be lighter on the hours for completion, but heavier on the material learned, which balances out

- if a student is completing a program in far less than the 1 year (at the rate of 1 hour/day 4-5 days/week) then you might consider that the program is too light for this student and try switching to material that is more meaty and challenging for the student

- if you have a math struggler, you may need to take much longer than 180 hours to complete the program; if a student needs 2 school years to get through Algebra 1, then it is okay to call that 2 credits (the student put in the time, for sure!), and label it Algebra 1: part 1 and Algebra 1: part 2, or Algebra 1a and Algebra 1b, other designation to honor the student's work, but to accurately describe what content was covered

- sometimes you just have to decide whether or not to count all of the hours spent on reading the Literature for an English credit, or all of the practice hours for instrument practice for a Music credit -- and count some of the hours of repetitive work as homework

Planning for roughly 5 hours a week is a good amount of time for a 1.0 credit course. That gives you leeway to cut some material or some assignments if you find you are constantly bumping up against your 5 hour/week limit. And it also gives you leeway if you want/need to drop to just working 4 hours/week from time to time -- like, if you need some sick days, or a special event crops up, or your student absolutely hates a resource and you can't find a substitute -- you can drop or streamline, and you're still well-covered in hours.

Also, give yourself permission to "go over" in hours if you have a remedial or struggling or slower student who will just need more time to complete an amount of work that an average or advanced student would complete much more quickly. (I had one of those, and our reality was that we really needed to spend more like 75-90 min/day to complete our 1.0 credit of English, and needed 1.5 years for Algebra 1 and then again for Algebra 2 to complete those 1.0 credit courses... so, that's just what we did.)

Edited June 18, 2019 by Lori D.

[pitterpatter]

My DD is at a resident Girl Scout horse camp this week. If she signs up for another horse camp in high school, which is very likely, and we want to count the experience as part of her PE credit, would I need to have her keep track of the number of hours she spends learning about horses and riding? As well as those she spends practicing canoeing and archery, which they usually do as well? I know the girls have a pretty good hike through the woods to get from the campground to the stables, so I suppose that could count that as hiking as well. Although, the latter seems a little like padding to me.

Also, If an activity is listed as extracurricular, can it still be counted as part of a credit? I'm guessing not due to the nature of the word but want to be sure. Or, can certain camps, etc. be called something other than extracurricular on a transcript so parts of them can be counted for credit but also listed as noteworthy. For example, DD is working toward becoming a junior wrangler for Girl Scout horse camps. It takes a number of years to achieve due to prerequisite camps (there's an age requirement too). She would essentially become a junior counselor for the horse portion of the lower levels of the Girl Scout horse camps. Could the hours she spends riding be counted for PE credit but the camp itself be noted for the leadership component. Heck, I don't know why I'm rambling on about this. She'll probably be done with her required one credit hour of PE by then. Lol.
 

33 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Yes, all of that works great for accruing credits.

The only thing I'd suggest is that if you have a great extracurricular (like the Science Camp you mention above), listing them on the separate Extracurriculars document can really make those activities and all the skills that the student developed "shine" -- while folding the activities in as part of a credit "hides" them under a generic course heading and amount of credit on a transcript. So, just something to bear in mind.

Thank you for re-posting the rest as well. I had read it in my previous research but forgotten some of it. I was good refresher. 👍

[GoodGrief]

48 minutes ago, pitterpatter said:

 

Also, If an activity is listed as extracurricular, can it still be counted as part of a credit? I'm guessing not due to the nature of the word but want to be sure.
 

 

Generally, no, one cannot double dip. However, public schools here do give PE credit on the transcript for sports participation at the school, 0.25 credit per semester per sport.

You can really decide how you want to handle it. Colleges, for the most part, are not going to care so much about the specifics of the PE and fine arts credits, unless it's a graduation requirement and the box is not checked.

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, pitterpatter said:

...If she signs up for another horse camp in high school... and we want to count the experience as part of her PE credit, would I need to have her keep track of the number of hours she spends learning about horses and riding? As well as those she spends practicing canoeing and archery, which they usually do as well? ...

... Or, can certain camps, etc. be called something other than extracurricular on a transcript so parts of them can be counted for credit but also listed as noteworthy...

No. The only things listed on the transcript are the list of courses, with grades and amount of credit, total GPA, and *optionally* any test scores from PSAT, ACT, SAT, SAT Subject Tests, AP. You make a separate Course Description document to detail what was done for each course, and you make a separate Awards & Extracurriculars document to detail a student's achievements outside of courses.

JMO: Girl Scout Horse Camp sounds like a great extracurricular, and I would count it as that. It's not so great as "PE" because it's not as "cut and dried" as physical activities or sports are about being hours spent on a physical activity (and possible fitness training/learning) -- and because you'd be missing out on making the counselor/leadership aspects "shine" as an extracurricular, by "hiding" it under an Elective credit of PE, which is not a type of credit that colleges give a hoot about.

Honestly, for high school PE, just get out and do your normal family physical activities 2 hours/week (that's just 30 min 4x/week), for 40 weeks of the year and that's 80 hours -- a solid 0.5 credit of PE for the school year without any strain. (:D And it lays the foundation for life of a healthy, balanced lifestyle that includes regular exercise. a good Just do your normal stuff -- walk, run, bike, hike, swim, kayak, play tennis,  jump rope, aerobics class, weight lifting, etc. etc.

Or... don't! Just skip counting hours and worrying about how to accumulate 1-2 credits of PE for the high school transcript and don't include PE on the transcript. Again, honestly, colleges do NOT care about credits of PE. They want to see actual *academic* subject credits: 4 credits each of English and Math; 3-4 credits each of Science, Social Studies and Foreign Language -- and then a credit of Fine Arts and some credits of Electives.

It's that simple. 😉
 

1 hour ago, pitterpatter said:

..., If an activity is listed as extracurricular, can it still be counted as part of a credit? I...

That's "double dipping", and that's a no.

Although... iin some circumstances, you can "split out" different hours/activities to different things. For example, if you're spending 180+ hours a year on your English, you could "split out" some of the writing that is specifically writing about History and count 1-2 papers on History towards a History credit that may be only sitting at around 135-150 hours, and it evens both History and English credits out a bit.

Or, in the case of extracurriculars, here's a real life example that I did: our DSs did YMCA Youth & Government for 3 years. Because it covers the same information on the legislative process each year, we skipped the legislative portion of our Gov't text, completed the other topics and I awarded 0.5 credit of Government on the transcript, and awarded 3 years of Youth & Gov't under the Extracurriculars, where I wrote up the leadership skills and awards that DSs earned in that extracurricular.

Hope this helps. Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Lori D.

[EKS]

Yes.  I've given PE credit and arts credit for camps and community based classes.  These were for things that my son wasn't passionate about, so he didn't need them for extracurriculars.

[Lori D.]

PS
I know that in 7th/8th grade it feels like you *need* to give your student credit for every little thing they do, but trust me: by 12th grade, your student will have plenty of actual, strong credits without having to stretch and include all kinds of activities, AND your student will have a great list of extracurriculars showing how well-rounded she is. The further in to high school you get, the more you do and when you start looking at your list, you realize you don't want to dilute the strength of her transcript credits by including something that was very "light" by comparison. 😉

Sure, do go ahead and start tracking hours and activities and record keeping for credits in middle school as a practice for high school -- but don't *stress* about high school credits before you get there. 😉

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by Lori D.

[katilac]

Neither of my kids had a single PE credit and exactly zero colleges asked about it. 

Look at your state requirements. Do you need to track PE? We just needed to show (via either standardized testing or a book list and a few samples) that we were providing an 'equivalent' education as the public schools. They also cared not one bit that we didn't list PE. 

[EKS]

31 minutes ago, katilac said:

Neither of my kids had a single PE credit and exactly zero colleges asked about it. 

Look at your state requirements. Do you need to track PE? We just needed to show (via either standardized testing or a book list and a few samples) that we were providing an 'equivalent' education as the public schools. They also cared not one bit that we didn't list PE. 

This is a good point.  The only reason I listed PE was that I made the claim that our homeschool requirements were greater than or equal to that of the public high school.

[pitterpatter]

Our state requires 1 credit hour of PE, plus 30 minutes of CPR/Heimlich training. I'm not really worried about it from a college admissions standpoint. I'm more worried about it in the event DD has to enter the public school system at some point. Then again, they would probably be mean about it and not allow any of our PE to count. I was actually wondering more about community Fine Arts counting for credit toward college admissions. We have the worst time squeezing art into our school day. We are top heavy on LA. It would be better if DD could work on her Fine Arts credit on the weekends. I was also wondering whether some specialty science camps might be able to be counted as labs.

2 hours ago, katilac said:

Neither of my kids had a single PE credit and exactly zero colleges asked about it. 

Look at your state requirements. Do you need to track PE? We just needed to show (via either standardized testing or a book list and a few samples) that we were providing an 'equivalent' education as the public schools. They also cared not one bit that we didn't list PE. 

 

[Farrar]

I agree about the not double dipping, but sometimes a student has so much of something active or artistic that you can use part for the credit and part for the extracurricular. I have been counting ds's pilates and strength and conditioning classes that are a required part of his overall ballet training for his level as his PE credit. The dance classes are his extracurricular. And, as someone said above, if a student has other extracurriculars and doesn't need to show off something, then you could use it for a credit instead of an extracurricular.

For Girl Scouts, I would think that you'd want to highlight that as an extracurricular, especially if she follows all the way through, gets a Gold Award, etc. On the other hand, if she does tons of GS camps, or, say, goes hiking often with the GS, then you could pull some of that to be a credit. You have to decide where your line is.

ETA: We're also, like some others, technically required to do PE and have PE credits by the not-a-state, so I figure we "should." I certainly don't think it looks bad to any colleges.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Farrar

[Arcadia]

For PE credits, I am just following my state’s general guidelines of 200mins every week to count as a high school credit. My district requires two years of PE credits for their students so I don’t want my kids transcript to look like they are missing PE credits.

“

• All students in grades 7-12 must receive a minimum of 400 minutes of physical education instruction every 10 school days. (Education Code Section 51222)
• Local school boards may exempt students from any two years of physical education in grades 10, 11, or 12.”

For fine arts credit, UC looks for minimum one high school fine arts credit so DS13 is set on taking an online photography course for that credit as he enjoys photography. 

[Mabelen]

I would definitely check your state requirements and also any target colleges. Here, you need a certain number of credits in a single area, so for example, two semesters of art meet the requirement for fine and performance arts, but not one semester of art and one of music.

[DawnM]

I used my son's Philmont trip as a PE credit.  I counted his Eagle Project as an elective in finance and business management.

Middle son got PE credit for playing league soccer.  He also got Eagle Scout credits.

I counted their Washington DC trip towards their American History credit, in addition to book work.

[BusyMom5]

Just bc the state mandates it for public schools does not mean it's required for homeschoolers.   I did put 1 credit of PE for 9th grade- I counted up 120 hours, and called it 1 credit.  We also did OM health that year, which lays out exercise programs, heart rate activities,  ect.  

 

Also, the state just added .5 of Personal Finance to the requirements a few years ago.  I'm teaching it at our co-op next year and plan to add enough homework to mske it a full credit course.

[DawnM]

BTW:   I didn't count hours technically, I guessed as to whether they learned what they needed to learn and called it a day.

I have two in college.  I think I did ok.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

22 hours ago, pitterpatter said:

My DD is at a resident Girl Scout horse camp this week. If she signs up for another horse camp in high school, which is very likely, and we want to count the experience as part of her PE credit, would I need to have her keep track of the number of hours she spends learning about horses and riding? As well as those she spends practicing canoeing and archery, which they usually do as well? I know the girls have a pretty good hike through the woods to get from the campground to the stables, so I suppose that could count that as hiking as well. Although, the latter seems a little like padding to me.

Also, If an activity is listed as extracurricular, can it still be counted as part of a credit? I'm guessing not due to the nature of the word but want to be sure. Or, can certain camps, etc. be called something other than extracurricular on a transcript so parts of them can be counted for credit but also listed as noteworthy. For example, DD is working toward becoming a junior wrangler for Girl Scout horse camps. It takes a number of years to achieve due to prerequisite camps (there's an age requirement too). She would essentially become a junior counselor for the horse portion of the lower levels of the Girl Scout horse camps. Could the hours she spends riding be counted for PE credit but the camp itself be noted for the leadership component. Heck, I don't know why I'm rambling on about this. She'll probably be done with her required one credit hour of PE by then. Lol.
 

Thank you for re-posting the rest as well. I had read it in my previous research but forgotten some of it. I was good refresher. 👍

 

I used to be in the don't double dip side, however I've modified my stance over the years.  Locally several of the prestigious high schools do have classes that support extracurricular clubs.  For example one school has a Model UN class and another has an Applied STEM course that is required for students who do Science Olympiad.  And of course many students have band as both a class and a time consuming extracurricular activity.

I still tend to be conservative about how much I package extracurricular activities into transcript items.  As others have mentioned, sometimes that can undercut the significance of the activity.  I didn't transcript Model UN, but left that as an activity.  That kid had several history and geo-political credits already and didn't need another one.  On the other hand, I took part of what another son did this year in Science Olympiad and folded it with some other things into an Applied STEM course.  But he will only have this on his transcript for one year, even though he has done Science Olympiad for several years.

On the topic of PE, I didn't bother putting it on the transcript at all.  There was somewhere else that I mentioned that they were active in several sports and physical activities (possibly the school profile or the homeschool supplement on the Common App).  I don't think any of the colleges cared about PE at all.

[pitterpatter]

Out of curiosity, what kind of tests did your DD take to complement How to Listen to and Understand Great Music? We used How to Look at and Understand Great Art in part this year for seventh grade for "free" via Kanopy and the St. Louis County Libraries (we pay an out-of-district fee for access). We don't have access to any of the homework/lessons that go with them, though. Not that I can find anyway. I am actually considering the one you mentioned or another music (or art) Great Courses for high school.

Thank you for posting the write-up too. I've been dying to read samples from other homeschoolers to determine how much detail to include.

18 minutes ago, Margaret in CO said:

As to Fine Arts, all my girls took music theory at our local uni during high school. One had 3 years (the one ABD in Baroque vioiin) and all have violin/cello/string ensemble/piano/orchestra so that more than covered it. Ds? Not so much. I gathered all the programs from YEARS of his sisters' orchestra/recitals/operas, he watched Understanding Great Music from TTC, took a few quizlets that I made up:

Introduction to Music: A semester course utilized the 48 lectures of How to Listen to and Understand Great Music, 3^rd Ed., a Teaching Company course by Dr. Robert Greenberg. The study included the elements of musical structure designed to form a basis for intelligent listening. Music was selected to illustrate representative styles of music from different historical periods and world cultures. The student was graded on a number of written tests covering music history and terms. Included was attendance at over twenty-five concerts and recitals, including opera, chamber music, jazz, symphonies, and chorales at University of Colorado, Boulder, and Western State Colorado University. (.5 credits) (11^th grade)

 

[8filltheheart]

I have used numerous GC with my kids. I don't feel obligated to give them tests to give them credit. We discuss them, read some of the suggested texts in the course booklets (or some other source), and write essays/do further research, etc. It is no less of a credit. It just doesn't mimic ps format.

[Corraleno]

I wouldn't worry about counting exact hours for courses like PE and Art; as 8FilltheHeart said, you don't need to replicate PS classes. And even PS classes don't always meet the minimum "Carnegie hours" — I took 3 years of art in HS and there was a whole lot of goofing off and chatting in class, and zero homework, so I'm quite sure we never did 120 hours of actual "work." Lots of wasted time in PE classes, too, and no homework — if you subtract the time we spent changing into and out of gym clothes, it was almost certainly less than 60 hrs/ year, but we still got .5 credit for it. FWIW, both of my kids are athletes and I didn't put PE on either of their transcripts, because it's not required here and colleges really don't care. 

For Art, I gave DS a full credit for Classical Art & Architecture based on 12 hours of lectures (Lukeion), plus three Lukeion tours of archaeological sites and museums. Lots of discussion and interaction, and some reading, but no quizzes or writing. The work was actually spread out over 3+ years, but I just lumped it all into one credit and listed it for 11th grade. DD will have a full credit in Art (mix of co-op art classes plus stuff she does on her own) plus a half-credit in Music for guitar. I don't count hours, I just decide what seems "credit-worthy."

 

[pitterpatter]

This is what I think too...that there's a lot of wasted time in traditional schools. I think I probably over schedule my DD's studies. The stigma around here is that all homeschoolers are slackers...don't actually teach their children anything. I mean, I don't want to be one of THOSE. Lol. Funny thing, though. DD is going to public summer school right now. (Her idea...to make friends.) She's had at least one teacher tell her to tell me that I do a good job teaching her. And, several students have commented on how "smart" she is. Apparently, stating that an adjective "modifies" a noun makes a seventh grader smart. 🤣 The teacher actually had her explain what "modifies" means so "the rest of the class" could understand. 🤔

3 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I wouldn't worry about counting exact hours for courses like PE and Art; as 8FilltheHeart said, you don't need to replicate PS classes. And even PS classes don't always meet the minimum "Carnegie hours" — I took 3 years of art in HS and there was a whole lot of goofing off and chatting in class, and zero homework, so I'm quite sure we never did 120 hours of actual "work." Lots of wasted time in PE classes, too, and no homework — if you subtract the time we spent changing into and out of gym clothes, it was almost certainly less than 60 hrs/ year, but we still got .5 credit for it. FWIW, both of my kids are athletes and I didn't put PE on either of their transcripts, because it's not required here and colleges really don't care. 

For Art, I gave DS a full credit for Classical Art & Architecture based on 12 hours of lectures (Lukeion), plus three Lukeion tours of archaeological sites and museums. Lots of discussion and interaction, and some reading, but no quizzes or writing. The work was actually spread out over 3+ years, but I just lumped it all into one credit and listed it for 11th grade. DD will have a full credit in Art (mix of co-op art classes plus stuff she does on her own) plus a half-credit in Music for guitar. I don't count hours, I just decide what seems "credit-worthy."

 

 

[J-rap]

We did that for PE and art.  We spread it out over several years, counted community ed classes, random homeschool group courses, family projects, YMCA classes, etc.  I was never too picky about hours because we did a lot of art projects and physical activities as a family and I know we did more than enough.
I looked up what our school district required and mostly matched that.  For example, our school district required one gym class, one health class, and I think one art class to graduate, so I made sure we had at least that.  

[BrittiBop16]

3 hours ago, J-rap said:

I looked up what our school district required and mostly matched that.  For example, our school district required one gym class, one health class, and I think one art class to graduate, so I made sure we had at least that.  

I know as homeschoolers we don't have to do what the local PS does, but I like having at least a baseline. 

I just thought I might add that per Maryland homeschool requirements, we must show evidence of having taught 8 subjects each year (both semesters, too): English, math, science, social studies, art, music, PE, and health. That said, I guess I would be well-suited to do what others here have done and spread my credits out over 4 years.

For those who lump cumulative activities and coursework together in one year, do you denote that on the transcript? Or would that explanation be more appropriate in the course description?

Thanks all!

[Lori D.]

9 hours ago, BrittiBop16 said:

...For those who lump cumulative activities and coursework together in one year, do you denote that on the transcript? Or would that explanation be more appropriate in the course description?

Transcripts are strictly a list of courses and their grades and credits earned. Any descriptions or explanations would go in the separate course description document. (The only exception is using an asterisk or notation next to a course name and in a footnote listing the name of the outsourcing course provider, especially if it was a dual enrolled course at a community college or university.)

One idea for avoiding a "messy" or "complicated" transcript (lots of partial credits in each grade/year) by organizing the transcript by subject, which just lists each course once with the completed amount of credit. If desired, you can also include the "date completed". Example:

ELECTIVES
course . . . . . . credit . . . grade
Computer. . . 1.00 . . . . X 
Health. . . . . . 0.50 . . . .X
Logic. . . . . . . 1.00 . . . . X
PE . . . . . . . . . 2.00 . . . .X

--OR--

ELECTIVES
course . . . . . . credit . . . grade . . .  date completed
Computer. . . 1.00 . . . . X . . . . .  05-2016
Health. . . . . . 0.50 . . . . X. . . . .  12-2016
Logic. . . . . . . .1.00 . . . . X. . . . .  06-2017
PE I. . . . . . . . . 1.00 . . . . X. . . . .   05-2016
PE II. . . . . . . .  1.00 . . . . X. . . . .   06-2018

[Corraleno]

11 hours ago, BrittiBop16 said:

I just thought I might add that per Maryland homeschool requirements, we must show evidence of having taught 8 subjects each year (both semesters, too): English, math, science, social studies, art, music, PE, and health. 

Surely they don't make PS students take art, music, and health every single year of high school, do they? It makes sense for lower grades, and I know some high schools do require .5 credit of PE every year, but I've never heard of high schoolers being required to take art, music, and health all 8 semesters of high school.

 

11 hours ago, BrittiBop16 said:

For those who lump cumulative activities and coursework together in one year, do you denote that on the transcript? Or would that explanation be more appropriate in the course description?

I didn't bother notating it at all. Our homeschool did not look anything like PS — we were very interest-led, we schooled year round, and just generally approached subjects in a very different way — so I used my best judgement in terms of how to fit DS's academics into a framework designed for an entirely different system. I don't see the point in counting exact hours and awarding fractional credits each year, since nearly all our courses span multiple "school years." For example, one of DS's passions is Greek language and literature, so one of his English credits was Ancient Greek Literature; the readings (in English & Greek), lectures (5 Great Courses, totaling 100+ lectures), and discussions evolved naturally over the course of three years, but most of the intensive research and writing was done in 11th, so I put it on the transcript in 11th. (I also only gave 1 credit for it, even though if I added up all the hours, I could easily have given half-credits in 9th & 10th, and another full credit in 11th. But I just grouped everything related to Greek literature into one credit.) For the Classical Art & Archaeology credit, the archaeological tours were in three different years, but there's no point in cluttering up the transcript with .4 credit in 9th (tour + lectures), .3 in 10th, and .3 in 11th. What matters is that he covered the subject (in this case, in a much deeper way than any normal HS class could have), so I just stuck it on the transcript where it made the most sense.

IMO, as long as the student actually did the work you're giving them credit for, how you choose to fit the square pegs of homeschool credits into the round holes of a transcript designed for a completely different educational system is up to you.
 

 

 

 

 

[J-rap]

12 hours ago, BrittiBop16 said:

I know as homeschoolers we don't have to do what the local PS does, but I like having at least a baseline. 

I just thought I might add that per Maryland homeschool requirements, we must show evidence of having taught 8 subjects each year (both semesters, too): English, math, science, social studies, art, music, PE, and health. That said, I guess I would be well-suited to do what others here have done and spread my credits out over 4 years.

For those who lump cumulative activities and coursework together in one year, do you denote that on the transcript? Or would that explanation be more appropriate in the course description?

Thanks all!

I didn't feel a need for an explanation.  I just listed the class.  Depending on how you list your courses, you could do it according to subject (then the year isn't even necessary), or by year (and then just choose a year).  I agree that simple is better.

I like at least loosely following the baseline of classes that our PS requires, because I figure they're basing their requirements on the variety of colleges within our state that the majority of kids end up attending.

[BrittiBop16]

28 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

13 hours ago, BrittiBop16 said:

science, social studies, art, music, PE, and health. 

Surely they don't make PS students take art, music, and health every single year of high school, do they? It makes sense for lower grades, and I know some high schools do require .5 credit of PE every year, but I've never heard of high schoolers being required to take art, music, and health all 8 semesters of high school.

My thoughts exactly! I feel like it's a way to make homeschoolers jump through some extra hoops. I think depending on who does the portfolio review, we may be able to get away doing say, one semester of health and one of PE. At any rate though, yep, all 8 subjects all 4 years. Kind of a hassle. 

[Lori D.]

19 hours ago, BrittiBop16 said:

... I just thought I might add that per Maryland homeschool requirements, we must show evidence of having taught 8 subjects each year (both semesters, too): English, math, science, social studies, art, music, PE, and health...

Just going to suggest that perhaps there has been a misreading of the actual Maryland law somewhere along the line (not suggesting you made the mistake, BrittBop16! (:D ).
___________________

COMAR 13A.10.01 - Maryland Homeschool Regulations
C. Instruction Program.
(1) The home instruction program shall:
(a) Provide regular, thorough instruction in the studies usually taught in the public schools to children of the same age;
(b) Include instruction in English, mathematics, science, social studies, art, music, health, and physical education; and
(c) Take place on a regular basis during the school year and be of sufficient duration to implement the instruction program.
___________________

I say that for several reasons:

1. Grammatically, a.), b.), and c.) are each modifiers/descriptors of  (1). It is NOT grammatically correct to read this statement as c.) is a modifier/descriptor of b.) So the "take place on a regular basis ... and be of sufficient duration" describes "the home instruction shall" -- NOT the 8 subjects listed in b.)

2. There is no direct statement in the law (you can read the entire Maryland homeschool law here) that every subject must be taught every semester. What IS required is listed in modifier/descriptor a.) -- that homeschoolers teach what is "usual" for "public school children of the same age". So, ARE public high schools teaching Health, PE, Music, and Art EVERY SEMESTER? Or are they teaching 0.5 to 1 credit of each of those subjects at some point in the 4 years of high school? If it is the latter, then that would be all you would be required to do, according to state law.

3. Required high school credits in Maryland do not list 4 credits for each of those 8 subjects, and there is no mention of where only 1 credit is required (Fine Arts), that is supposed to be spread out over 8 semesters, or the 0.5 credit EACH of Health and PE should be spread out over 8 semesters. In fact, the required credit of Fine Arts do not require both Music AND Art -- the Fine Arts credit specifically states that it:  "may include Art, Dance, Theatre, or Music".

Perhaps look at a few of the local public high schools and what courses they offer at each grade, and as long as you are providing instruction in the similar credits at the similar grades (providing "regular, thorough instruction in the studies usually taught in the public schools to children of the same age"), you're following the law for homeschoolers in your state. 😁

Edited June 22, 2019 by Lori D.

[BrittiBop16]

Hi Lori D.,

I hope this isn't hijacking a thread...

This is only my first year homeschooling in Maryland (I homeschooled for 3 years in Virginia where all we had to do each year was submit a notice of intent, course of study, and standardized test scores). I don't want to spread bad information so thank you for taking the time to pick this apart. Based on your interpretation, it sounds like a good case for not being compelled to teach all 8 subjects all year, especially at the high school level. You're right, why should we have to do more than even the local high schools require to graduate?? Granted, I have not had a portfolio review at the high school level so I don't know what that looks like just yet. 

I should also point out that based on my current (and probably skewed) understanding, what we're doing for credit purposes is different from what I plan to do for portfolio purposes. For example, this past year, I could show two art projects each semester just to check off that box during the portfolio review. I wouldn't grant a credit for that come high school, but at least to the county, yep my kids "did art." I even planned on spreading a half credit of health over 2 years just so I could show the county that my high schooler received instruction in health each semester. Then I was going to award the half credit on dd's transcript. Do you all think spreading a half credit over 2 years is too much spread? 

Maybe the school board (which conducts the portfolio reviews) overstepped and/or I just provided too much information each time. The fact remains that it can be intimidating and stressful to have someone face-to-face critique what we've been doing all year. In fact, I don't know anyone else who uses the school board portfolio review process here. Everyone I have met uses an umbrella. I will start a new thread once I contact the board about high school instruction in MD. We only recently decided to homeschool through high school, after all.

Anywho, this forum has been a blessing! 

Britt

 

[Lori D.]

12 hours ago, BrittiBop16 said:

...  it can be intimidating and stressful to have someone face-to-face critique what we've been doing all year...

(((hugs))) Britt! Totally understandable -- that *does* sound very stressful, esp. since you're new to the state!

... I should also point out that based on my current (and probably skewed) understanding, what we're doing for credit purposes is different from what I plan to do for portfolio purposes. For example, this past year, I could show two art projects each semester just to check off that box during the portfolio review. I wouldn't grant a credit for that come high school, but at least to the county, yep my kids "did art." I even planned on spreading a half credit of health over 2 years just so I could show the county that my high schooler received instruction in health each semester. Then I was going to award the half credit on dd's transcript. Do you all think spreading a half credit over 2 years is too much spread? ... 

Just me, but it sounds like a lot of extra work that is probably not even necessary. Again, just me, but I would only spread 0.5 credit over 2 years if that is what worked best for my student, or if for some reason we had started a credit and had to set it aside for a year before we could finish it. 

Also, I found that by high school, my kids retained more when we did it in more concentrated bursts, rather than doing it just once a week over a year or two.

...This is only my first year homeschooling in Maryland ... I have not had a portfolio review at the high school level so I don't know what that looks like just yet...

You might try looking around for some local homeschoolers or contact the Maryland Homeschool Association and ask to talk to someone, especially someone who has current or past high school students, and ask what they presented for the portfolio review, and what that looked like for the high school years.

Also, I think that if you simply present your transcript and a portfolio of material in support of your credits, along with a printed list of what credits the typical ___ grader in a public high school, along with a print out of the Maryland homeschool regulations, it keeps things simple and quick to point out that you and point out that you ARE following the law and "Provid[ing] regular, thorough instruction in the studies usually taught in the public schools to children of the same age".

The person doing the portfolio review is likely just checking boxes, and the more straightforward and similar to what the public schools do as far as credit line-up, the easier you make it for that person to check that box and move on. 😉

.... I will start a new thread once I contact the board about high school instruction in MD...

Yea! Hopefully someone on these boards who is living in MD will be able to help you out with "BTDT" experience.

And finally, just an unsolicited side note LOL -- over the years, I have slowly come to the realization that the more direct and to the point I am when I contact someone to ask about required paperwork, the less likely I am to open a can of worms where the person now feels they need to have some sort of input or control over my situation. So, for example, if I were in your shoes and were contacting the state Educational Board, I'd be sure to ask for someone with experience with homeschool portfolios, and then when speaking with this person, just simply ask: "What exactly do you need or want to see at the high school portfolio review?" And possibly a follow up question, asked more as a statement: "So, it sounds like we're good to go as long as we are pretty closely doing the similar types of credits in the similar semesters/years of high school, we are fulfilling state regulations that say, quote, 'Provide regular, thorough instruction in the studies usually taught in the public schools to children of the same age', correct?"

BEST of luck as you plan for high school credits and administrative stuff in your new state! Warmest regards, Lori D.