HSLDA throws CA charter homeschoolers under the bus

[KungFuPanda]

On 6/17/2019 at 4:30 PM, SeaConquest said:

On our local homeschooling boards in So Cal, I've been rather critical of some of the excesses, and I can certainly see areas in need of reform. I'm just outraged that instead of a simple 'no comment' or 'we don't represent charter/public school students,' HSLDA had to make comments that actively work against us. Moonflower, you are correct that this is all about resentment on the part of the public. But, right now, we need public support if we are going to keep independent study charters as an option for homeschoolers.

In my book having HSLDA, and their entire philosophy, against you can work in your favor in certain political situations.  California seems like a place where you'd do well NOT to be lumped in with HSLDA.

 

ETA: ack . . . just realized this thread is longer than one page . . . looping back to catch up.

 

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by KungFuPanda

[AmandaVT]

Vermont doesn't have any charter schools, so I am not speaking from personal experience, but it seems that charter schools create rather than solve problems. I have a friend in the Los Altos district and her kids may not have a school to attend next year - a charter school is taking over the public jr. high school there. I haven't figured out exactly how that works, legally, but apparently according to some CA law, they're allowed to do that. So the neighborhood public school her kids have been attending may be closing its doors so the charter school can waltz in and take over the space. 

http://www.ktvu.com/news/ktvu-local-news/los-altos-parents-outraged-over-agreement-to-move-junior-high-for-charter-school?fbclid=IwAR0TOFOCW3YEsYhMCf-jrzX3kDWYafcSbIglbVNYN7XSl3OQAemkD2cahzo

My personal feeling about public schoolers and private schoolers receiving tax payer money from the state is that it's not ok except in extreme cases. I'm choosing to not put my kid in the public school. If the state pays me for that, it takes away money from the general education funds that go to public schools that need them. It's my choice, so I pay out of pocket for it. 

 

[Arcadia]

3 hours ago, Michelle Conde said:

 No one in public school has lost anything for having someone else use their time to apply public funds more effectively than a ps can.

 

The local districts are requesting that the state pays some money to help for kids that switch to a public charter and that might get approved.

The problem is that school districts give pink slips to teachers in March based on expected enrollment and it’s hard to predict how many would jump ship to public charters and private schools after submitting the public school enrollment/re-enrollment in Jan/Feb. Kids switching to private are a handful. However when kids switch to public charter for a large school, the number of teachers required drops and the district doesn’t do layoffs when school starts. So they get less attendance allowances from the state and same number of staff. It may not seem significant but it hurts the districts with many senior teachers (on max out pay) who rely primarily on attendance funding.

We enrolled/re-enrolled both my kids in our school district while still deciding on whether to switch to a public charter because overcrowding (portable classrooms at every school) means we have to enroll or be posted to a far away elementary school. My school district budget statement says they have to pay the public charter $5,600 for each kid in the district that goes to a public charter. My district is basic aid and more than 40% of property tax goes to school funding with negligible from state, student attendance isn’t an issue since it’s not their revenue stream. 

I don’t know what is the current reimbursement rate right now but I could look up my school district budgets. If my kids decide to go to public charter for high school, my district would have to pay up to the charter. Pretty sure it would be more than 2011’s price tag of $5,600 per elementary school kid. 

My kids assigned middle school is not great which means many opt to use brick and mortar public charter schools for middle school. Vocal neighbors slam their neighbors as deflectors and taking valuable funding away from local schools. We were homeschooling at that point so no one said anything nasty to us. 

[SeaConquest]

9 hours ago, EmseB said:

No, my point is that's not what people are talking about when they say elementary school shouldn't be so rigorous or school-ish. People are talking about letting kids have more recess, more free play, more read alouds snuggled in a lap or sprawled on the floor, more being in the kitchen baking with a parent, more time in nature, less butts-in-seats doing worksheets, less freaking out if someone can't read well when they are 5 or 6, and certainly not talking about scheduling more camps or programs for them. They are talking about things that cost very little money and free up a kid's time to not be entertained, or scheduled, or taught. They are talking about a kid sitting in their room with their stuffed animals, dolls, actions figures, houses, whatever and making up a story in their brain for an hour and acting it out. Or sitting and drawing or painting or painting or folding paper without someone telling them the "right" way to do it in an art class. Making a fort in the woods and mixing up "stew" out of pine needles and dirt and pretending to be lost on a desert island. That sort of stuff. The stuff that's all but gone from early elementary education, and even a lot of pre-schools and from a lot of home life since homeschooling has become all about classes, camps, robotics, programs, and making sure everyone has "experiences".

Most people (that I've ever heard talk about this issue) who are talking about academics in early elementary school being a problem aren't talking about needing $2-$3k for more programs or more scheduled classes; quite the opposite actually.

I have older-ish kids that I need to school. I spend time with the youngers first, doing read aloud, baking or kitchen work, teaching the K'er to read, write, and do simple arithmetic. Maaaybe some art, but I'm not usually crafty mom. They think that stuff up on their own, mostly. My little two have a ton of time to free play, entertain each other, themselves, do little mini-chores around the house...so in my mind it's a win-win. It honestly never occurred to me that someone would think that speaking about problematic academics in elementary schools would take that to mean they needed to spend a couple thousand dollars on scheduling some other experience or "outdoor school". I am lucky that there is a homeschool PE class weekly during the school year, and get-togethers locally that cost...about the cost of bringing snacks. It's really low-key. Sending my kids to school 2 days a week wouldn't really fit with our homeschool, though, for a lot of reasons, mainly time. I can't teach effectively and have good continuity at home while having my kids gone from our school two days a week to go to a different school. Well, I could, but I guess we'd be schooling year round, which I can't handle either, lol.

ETA: I just reread your post and laughed because I realized that my kids are also in a play-based, multi-age, experiential learning program for the whole day, every day and we just call it...being at home and living life. Maybe I *do* need the state to start paying me educational funds!!   (meant to be lighthearted, not snark...in case tone is questionable 😬)
 

 

Sounds idyllic. I will just go back to the HCOL issue again. Many many people in SD cannot afford to live in houses (the houses in my neighborhood are easily a minimum of one million up), so they don't have a backyard or woods where their kids can frolick and make "stews." So, we have to schlep our kids from one activity to the next -- most of which cost money. I used to take my kids to the neighborhood parks and there was nobody there (except toddlers) because all the kids were similarly enrolled in organized activities (or, in the case of afterschoolers, also doing homework). I also tried to let my kids free range around our apartment complex and was told that no balls were allowed in the grass areas, no chalk was allowed on the sidewalks, and no scooters were allowed in and around the complex, and the neighborhood was too urban for them to ride bikes and scooters on the streets. So, you have to remember that we don't all live in the same environments. I am sure that if I lived in another part of the country, where my kids had access to streams and forests, this would all seem insane to me too. (We literally moved to an RV park so my kids could have some semblance of a free range childhood without CPS being called on me.) 

[Arcadia]

20 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

 I have a friend in the Los Altos district and her kids may not have a school to attend next year - a charter school is taking over the public jr. high school there. I haven't figured out exactly how that works, legally, but apparently according to some CA law, they're allowed to do that. So the neighborhood public school her kids have been attending may be closing its doors so the charter school can waltz in and take over the space. 

 

Bullis Charter School has been fighting Los Altos School Distict for years. We went to their open house and their current facilities are just fine, as good as other public schools near them and better than some in fact. They asked for a donation for $3,000 per child when we were thinking about enrolling and that was in 2011, it was higher in 2012 when we were re-evaluating. They offer Chinese immersion which is why we visited but our kids chinese tutor doesn’t cost us $3,000 for both kids.

Charter schools are “entitled” to getting a school campus from the school district. That’s what the lawsuit is about. For my district, the 6th-12th grade charter school was given a middle school campus that was similar in age and quality to all other middle schools in the district. That charter didn’t kick a fuss. 

I don’ sympathize with Bullis and I feel bad for your friend. Egan Junior High School is a nice school campus and there is nothing in the law I know of that says charter schools are entitled to pick whichever campus they feel are the nicest in the district as their own. I feel Los Altos school district should continue fighting because our (husband and me) impression from the Bullis’ open houses are that they feel entitled because they see themselves as the public charter school version of Harker. My kids were not impressed by their students.

 

[SeaConquest]

3 hours ago, EmilyGF said:

According to the (biased) article, part of the pushback is that the scores aren't better from kids in the charter overall. So the education dollars are being spent differently with worse results. 

If the goal is to try spending differently to get better education, you've got to show that the education is actually better beyond, "we like what we do."

Emily

 

Again, it isn't an apples to apples comparison because the struggling and special ed students often jump to charters. So, you have students who are often very behind by the time that they get to the charter. It takes time to remediate them. Often, the parents are focused on just getting the child's mental health in order after being traumatized (I don't say that word lightly) by the public schools before they turn to the task of academics. So yes, it does not surprise me that many charter schools have test scores that lag the public schools. As I mentioned, we have a huge percentage of special ed students at my kids' charters -- much higher than you would find in their neighborhood school. 

There are some brick and mortar charters who have lotteries for admission, and those schools have been criticized for keeping out special ed kids. But, I can tell you that is not at all the case for independent study charters. So, again, very different types of charter school populations and types of programs.

[EmseB]

2 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

 

Sounds idyllic. I will just go back to the HCOL issue again. Many many people in SD cannot afford to live in houses (the houses in my neighborhood are easily a minimum of one million up), so they don't have a backyard or woods where their kids can frolick and make "stews." So, we have to schlep our kids from one activity to the next -- most of which cost money. I used to take my kids to the neighborhood parks and there was nobody there (except toddlers) because all the kids were similarly enrolled in organized activities (or, in the case of afterschoolers, also doing homework). I also tried to let my kids free range around our apartment complex and was told that no balls were allowed in the grass areas, no chalk was allowed on the sidewalks, and no scooters were allowed in and around the complex, and the neighborhood was too urban for them to ride bikes and scooters on the streets. So, you have to remember that we don't all live in the same environments. I am sure that if I lived in another part of the country, where my kids had access to streams and forests, this would all seem insane to me too. (We literally moved to an RV park so my kids could have some semblance of a free range childhood without CPS being called on me.) 

Well, I'll just say that I'm pretty aware that places like SD and OC are not the norm as far as COL, but I have lived in a lot of different places, some HCOL, some LCOL, some with woods, some not, some urban, some suburban, some countryside, some with houses packed together like sardines. My examples were examples, not specific requirements. It's not that I'm not aware of different environments or that every place we live has a forest and a stream to visit nearby. I've still not found that I have to spend $$$ on some "idyllic" (that made me laugh because we are a hot mess most of the time) experiences or programs. My point was that what you were originally pointing out was not what people speak about when they talk about making lower elementary more developmentally appropriate and less academically rigorous. They are talking about free play and recess for kids...stuff you can't program or schedule. 

But your posts about what you need to homeschool successfully in your area explain a lot more to me about the panic I see in social media of charter $$ possibly going away. And the funny thing is that this brings us around to the problems a lot of more relaxed (for lack of a better word) homeschoolers face: public charters inject dollars so everyone goes to some intense outdoor school or robotics camp instead of wanting a simple park meetup or support group. So homeschooling becomes just another method of scheduling kids out the wazoo and stressing everyone out if they don't have the perfect hybrid school or fancy classes or coop or the "right" kind of nature experience. Little kids can't just go explore the beach with a family or two, they need a marine biologists from the local aquarium to do a class for them, which is $$. Anyway, maybe a tangent, or maybe explains why hs'ers feel such a divide about this.

[SeaConquest]

11 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Well, I'll just say that I'm pretty aware that places like SD and OC are not the norm as far as COL, but I have lived in a lot of different places, some HCOL, some LCOL, some with woods, some not, some urban, some suburban, some countryside, some with houses packed together like sardines. My examples were examples, not specific requirements. It's not that I'm not aware of different environments or that every place we live has a forest and a stream to visit nearby. I've still not found that I have to spend $$$ on some "idyllic" (that made me laugh because we are a hot mess most of the time) experiences or programs. My point was that what you were originally pointing out was not what people speak about when they talk about making lower elementary more developmentally appropriate and less academically rigorous. They are talking about free play and recess for kids...stuff you can't program or schedule. 

But your posts about what you need to homeschool successfully in your area explain a lot more to me about the panic I see in social media of charter $$ possibly going away. And the funny thing is that this brings us around to the problems a lot of more relaxed (for lack of a better word) homeschoolers face: public charters inject dollars so everyone goes to some intense outdoor school or robotics camp instead of wanting a simple park meetup or support group. So homeschooling becomes just another method of scheduling kids out the wazoo and stressing everyone out if they don't have the perfect hybrid school or fancy classes or coop or the "right" kind of nature experience. Little kids can't just go explore the beach with a family or two, they need a marine biologists from the local aquarium to do a class for them, which is $$. Anyway, maybe a tangent, or maybe explains why hs'ers feel such a divide about this.

 

We do have this too. I'm in several FB groups that are devoted to this kind of stuff, and I try to partake, but find that we don't have a lot of time for the stuff that they do (because we are pretty academically-inclined, due to my older child), or that I am just not temperamentally suited towards it -- I am not crafty or very outdoorsy -- or because it attracts a crowd that is more granola/Waldorfy than I am (unvaxed, gluten/dairy/nut/etc-free playdates), so it is partially my fault that we don't do more of that. I guess, I like structure and I like experts. So, there is something appealing to my type A personality about knowing that Mondays and Wednedsdays 9-230, we do this, and on Tuesday and Thursdays, we do PE, and on Friday afternoons, we do science lab, etc. There is a rhythm to our week, so that the kids know what we are doing and where we are going. I know that it doesn't work for everyone, and would be too rigid for most, but I don't think we'd get anything done if we just relaxed around the RV all day. Or, we'd go stir crazy and kill each other. 

Edited June 20, 2019 by SeaConquest

[Crimson Wife]

Coming to this thread late but I've had kids enrolled in 4 different CA charter schools (moved out of service area, school closed, and a family medical emergency were the reasons for switching). NONE of them allowed the purchase of Disney tickets or museum/zoo/aquarium/etc. annual passes. School-organized field trips to local attractions including "Physics Day" at a theme park, yes. But I couldn't just pick a date to attend the theme park as a family and get it paid for.

I've also had to meet our various charter teachers in person. Most of them have wanted samples for each subject each visit.

Valient wasn't accredited and I think that should've been a red flag to the state. It's perfectly reasonable to require all charter programs that want state funding to be accredited.

[EmseB]

4 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

 

We do have this too. I'm in several FB groups that are devoted to this kind of stuff, and I try to partake, but find that we don't have a lot of time for the stuff that they do (because we are pretty academically-inclined, due to my older child), or that I am just not temperamentally suited towards it -- I am not crafty or very outdoorsy -- or because it attracts a crowd that is more granola/Waldorfy than I am (unvaxed, gluten/dairy/nut/etc-free playdates), so it is partially my fault that we don't do more of that. I guess, I like structure and I like experts. So, there is something appealing to my type A personality about knowing that Mondays and Wednedsdays 9-230, we do this, and on Tuesday and Thursdays, we do PE, and on Friday afternoons, we do science lab, etc. There is a rhythm to our week, so that the kids know what we are doing and where we are going. I know that it doesn't work for everyone, and would be too rigid for most, but I don't think we'd get anything done if we just relaxed around the RV all day. Or, we'd go stir crazy and kill each other. 

I think I'm not communicating well...my olders do full MP cores (so what some people consider a lot of academics). I am not crunchy, Waldorfy, granola, or anything like that, and however it's related, we fully vaccinate everyone in our house. We are not lounging around all day...Well, maybe I am more because I'm preggo, lol. To the contrary, I can't figure out how people do a ton of stuff outside the home and still get homeschool done with older kids because we keep busy a lot of the day with...our homeschool. It's something I've always wondered about how people do classical conversations plus another coop plus multiple field trips each month plus sport plus some kind of music or other lessons. We get up, eat breakfast and read aloud, have morning time together and...I'm teaching or hearing recitations or making lunch or just keeping people on task the rest of the day. We have a pretty defined schedule that's academically heavy, it's just not paying $$ for out of the house programs. It is possible.

It's more the littles and lower elementary that I think need more free time/free play, which I think was the original point I was making but I almost forget how where this started

In any case, I think I've talked myself way off my original point. 😄

Edited June 20, 2019 by EmseB

[Lang Syne Boardie]

58 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I think I'm not communicating well...my olders do full MP cores (so what some people consider a lot of academics). I am not crunchy, Waldorfy, granola, or anything like that, and however it's related, we fully vaccinate everyone in our house. We are not lounging around all day...Well, maybe I am more because I'm preggo, lol. To the contrary, I can't figure out how people do a ton of stuff outside the home and still get homeschool done with older kids because we keep busy a lot of the day with...our homeschool. It's something I've always wondered about how people do classical conversations plus another coop plus multiple field trips each month plus sport plus some kind of music or other lessons. We get up, eat breakfast and read aloud, have morning time together and...I'm teaching or hearing recitations or making lunch or just keeping people on task the rest of the day. We have a pretty defined schedule that's academically heavy, it's just not paying $$ for out of the house programs. It is possible.

It's more the littles and lower elementary that I think need more free time/free play, which I think was the original point I was making but I almost forget how where this started

In any case, I think I've talked myself way off my original point. 😄

A lot of homeschoolers are only doing coops. Even though the coop science class is once a week, the math enrichment is sporadic and spread over two coops, etc., they do not actually teach their children on the home days. Sarah McKenzie (Read Aloud Revival) explained several years ago that this is how she homeschooled - they have Morning Meeting every day, and then the rest of their education is whatever they get from coops. I don't follow her; I have no idea if she has kept this up as her kids have gotten older. But at the time, I noticed a lot of younger homeschool moms commented that they did the same.

(Could I have some points or gold stars or something, for posting this without judgmental commentary?)

[EmilyGF]

12 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

 

Again, it isn't an apples to apples comparison because the struggling and special ed students often jump to charters. So, you have students who are often very behind by the time that they get to the charter. It takes time to remediate them. Often, the parents are focused on just getting the child's mental health in order after being traumatized (I don't say that word lightly) by the public schools before they turn to the task of academics. So yes, it does not surprise me that many charter schools have test scores that lag the public schools. As I mentioned, we have a huge percentage of special ed students at my kids' charters -- much higher than you would find in their neighborhood school. 

There are some brick and mortar charters who have lotteries for admission, and those schools have been criticized for keeping out special ed kids. But, I can tell you that is not at all the case for independent study charters. So, again, very different types of charter school populations and types of programs.

I'm not against charter schools in general or even against the CA homeschooling charters. I just think you need to think about what it looks like to outsiders.

I think homeschoolers in CA should be working to get stricter requirements for homeschool charters because I think they will eventually go away otherwise. You have to convince, basically, people like my parents who are generally fans of homeschooling (they sure encourage me and my sister and always say how great it is that we do what we do) but are skeptical of giving money to people to homeschool without more strings.

Emily

[PeppermintPattie]

On 6/17/2019 at 2:00 PM, SeaConquest said:

 

No. You do you.

I just wanted people to be aware of what their money was supporting. People are now aware.

What donations to HSLDA support, or what our tax dollars support?

[SeaConquest]

16 hours ago, EmilyGF said:

I'm not against charter schools in general or even against the CA homeschooling charters. I just think you need to think about what it looks like to outsiders.

I think homeschoolers in CA should be working to get stricter requirements for homeschool charters because I think they will eventually go away otherwise. You have to convince, basically, people like my parents who are generally fans of homeschooling (they sure encourage me and my sister and always say how great it is that we do what we do) but are skeptical of giving money to people to homeschool without more strings.

Emily

 

Emily, as I mentioned, I have been a critic of some of the behavior on the part of parents and the charter policies that enabled that behavior. I hope that I haven't given the impression that I think all is perfectly fine in charterland because I definitely see the need for reform (and my opinion is NOT a popular one). From my perspective, these are public school students, taking public school dollars, but many of them don't want to test, don't want to vax, don't want to use curriculum or want to use religious curriculum/vendors and turn in bogus samples to their teachers, want to turn in as few samples as possible, and otherwise don't want to do the things that public school students typically have to do. I went into pretty specific detail about our experience with our charters to give you an idea of how the charters have been a good fit for my boys, but also how I believe that we have done our part for the charter.

I agree with you, though, that we in the charter world need to be focused on doing it better and cleaner than everyone else because we are under so much scrutiny. But, when you have a student just struggling to catch up, after they've fallen behind in public school, I'm not sure that everyone sees that as the goal. Some parents are just trying to survive.

[SeaConquest]

22 minutes ago, PeppermintPattie said:

What donations to HSLDA support, or what our tax dollars support?

Both. If you have issues with the latter, so be it. If you have no issues with the former, also so be it.

Edited June 21, 2019 by SeaConquest

[AbcdeDooDah]

I'm torn because we just joined a co-op and one of the requirements is to join a charter or join HSLDA if we file a PSA. 

 

[SeaConquest]

2 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I'm torn because we just joined a co-op and one of the requirements is to join a charter or join HSLDA if we file a PSA. 

 

 

There are lots of CA homeschoolers here. We are happy to answer any questions about the differences between various charters and the pros/cons of charters vs PSAs. How old are your children? Charters are much easier at the K-8 level, and have more rigorous requirements in high school.

Edited June 22, 2019 by SeaConquest

[EmseB]

16 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I'm torn because we just joined a co-op and one of the requirements is to join a charter or join HSLDA if we file a PSA. 

 

Why in the world? That seems way overbearing on the part of the co-op. I would say they are attempting to require families to have oversight via a charter, but then HSLDA isn't anywhere close to an oversight organization. So weird.

[AbcdeDooDah]

6 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Why in the world? That seems way overbearing on the part of the co-op. I would say they are attempting to require families to have oversight via a charter, but then HSLDA isn't anywhere close to an oversight organization. So weird.

I know. It's so dumb. I was in this co-op previously and the leader let me opt out. The new one won't. My son really needs this co-op right now so I'm doing it, but UGH. I don't know which one to choose. They both cost something.

[AbcdeDooDah]

20 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

There are lots of CA homeschoolers here. We are happy to answer any questions about the differences between various charters and the pros/cons of charters vs PSAs. How old are your children? Charters are much easier at the K-8 level, and have more rigorous requirements in high school.

My son is 11. I've filed PSAs for most of my homeschooling years(3 graduated) I just don't want to join HSLDA or a charter. The charter looks like the less philosophically troubling choice right now. I'm not saying that to knock charters, we were in one for 2 years. 

[SeaConquest]

Just now, AbcdeDooDah said:

My son is 11. I've filed PSAs for most of my homeschooling years(3 graduated) I just don't want to join HSLDA or a charter. The charter looks like the less philosophically troubling choice right now. I'm not saying that to knock charters, we were in one for 2 years. 

 

That's crazy. I am sorry that they are putting you in this position. 

[KungFuPanda]

On 6/20/2019 at 7:12 PM, EmseB said:

I think I'm not communicating well...my olders do full MP cores (so what some people consider a lot of academics). I am not crunchy, Waldorfy, granola, or anything like that, and however it's related, we fully vaccinate everyone in our house. We are not lounging around all day...Well, maybe I am more because I'm preggo, lol. To the contrary, I can't figure out how people do a ton of stuff outside the home and still get homeschool done with older kids because we keep busy a lot of the day with...our homeschool. It's something I've always wondered about how people do classical conversations plus another coop plus multiple field trips each month plus sport plus some kind of music or other lessons. We get up, eat breakfast and read aloud, have morning time together and...I'm teaching or hearing recitations or making lunch or just keeping people on task the rest of the day. We have a pretty defined schedule that's academically heavy, it's just not paying $$ for out of the house programs. It is possible.

It's more the littles and lower elementary that I think need more free time/free play, which I think was the original point I was making but I almost forget how where this started

In any case, I think I've talked myself way off my original point. 😄

My deal with co-ops is that they have to take two subjects off my plate for it to be worth sacrificing the day.  I can oversee homework, and beef it up a bit if need be, but those courses need to be the meat of those subjects that year or we can't spare the time.  I imagine if people do multiple co-ops, they've essentially outsourced MOST of their classes and just juggle the homework kind of like college courses taken at different schools during the same semester.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

The most troubling part of this for me is how the HSLDA is so willing to exclude others as "not real homeschoolers." I can appreciate concerns about how each of our families is classified legally. We all must fit into our state's requirements about compulsory education. However, it is hurtful when large swaths of the homeschooling is written off as we do not matter. And it seems fairly obvious to me that there is a connection between those who are excluded and those families who do not fit into a certain kind of demographic. Further, the HSLDA has a vested interest in promoting that kind of an us against them mentality because that is how they increase membership. 

A group that was truly concerned about education and supporting choices for families would take a broader view of these issues, at least IMHO. And to the question about why secular and non-traditional homeschooling families do not form own group - most of us are not ideologically opposed to public education so it would be difficult to marshal support for alternatives to public education that might benefit our own families but hurt children who have no options other than the public schools. 

And in some cases, we may have one child who needs an alternative, but another for whom public schools are the least bad option. I know families who have two or more kids split between public, private, online charter, and homeschooling. 

[historically accurate]

22 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

The most troubling part of this for me is how the HSLDA is so willing to exclude others as "not real homeschoolers." I can appreciate concerns about how each of our families is classified legally. We all must fit into our state's requirements about compulsory education. However, it is hurtful when large swaths of the homeschooling is written off as we do not matter. And it seems fairly obvious to me that there is a connection between those who are excluded and those families who do not fit into a certain kind of demographic. Further, the HSLDA has a vested interest in promoting that kind of an us against them mentality because that is how they increase membership. 

A group that was truly concerned about education and supporting choices for families would take a broader view of these issues, at least IMHO. And to the question about why secular and non-traditional homeschooling families do not form own group - most of us are not ideologically opposed to public education so it would be difficult to marshal support for alternatives to public education that might benefit our own families but hurt children who have no options other than the public schools. 

I agree with you, and this idea circles back to the original article, if they mostly want to preserve "pure homeschooling" more than supporting educational choice, they should say when asked, "We don't represent charter homeschoolers. We only work with and for those families who decline public monies. Sorry, we cannot comment on California's charter homeschoolers." 

[KidsHappen]

The post is in response to the OP in which in at least two posts she stated that CA is the largest state in the US. Alaska is the largest state in the union and Texas is the largest in the continental United States although CA is the most populous and appears to have the most homeschoolers which is I assume the point you were trying to make. I followed this entire thread just to see if someone corrected this and now don't want to go back and search for the posts stating this. Apparently my OCD is working just a little more than normal. 😉

[EmseB]

2 hours ago, beckyjo said:

I agree with you, and this idea circles back to the original article, if they mostly want to preserve "pure homeschooling" more than supporting educational choice, they should say when asked, "We don't represent charter homeschoolers. We only work with and for those families who decline public monies. Sorry, we cannot comment on California's charter homeschoolers." 

Why wouldn't they be able to comment on their opinion of charters though? They can comment and the journalist is supposed to write the story and consolidate or relay different parties commenting then the reader gets to form their own opinion. But to say theu can't comment on charters is silly -- theu were asked their opinion and gave it, plus made no effort to hide who or what they represent.

[historically accurate]

1 minute ago, EmseB said:

Why wouldn't they be able to comment on their opinion of charters though? They can comment and the journalist is supposed to write the story and consolidate or relay different parties commenting then the reader gets to form their own opinion. But to say theu can't comment on charters is silly -- theu were asked their opinion and gave it, plus made no effort to hide who or what they represent.

Obviously, they can comment since they did. I said my opinion was they shouldn't (not couldn't) since they don't want to do anything with charter homeschoolers. 

Note: this isn't my fight - I am no where near California and we don't even have charters that I know of in my area. I just gave my opinion on what I would say if I were a "purist homeschooling expert" and someone asked me about charter homeschooling.

[moonflower]

My understanding is that HDSLA doesn't just have nothing to do with charter homeschoolers, they actually think charter homeschool is a bad idea, or that it shouldn't be represented as homeschooling.

I disagree, largely, but I can see how if you called them up and said what do you think of these charter homeschoolers, they'd say well, we always said it was a bad idea and here's why.

[GoodGrief]

Years ago, back in the days of e mail listservs and AOL message boards, this was a hot topic among Alaska homeschoolers. Charter schools and similar programs called "statewide correspondence programs" (those are not correspondence schools, per se, despite the category name) aimed at homeschoolers became really popular starting in the late 90s. HSDLA was very vocal in their opposition at that time, because of, probably reasonable, fear that the programs would lead to an inevitable erosion of rights for independent homeschoolers in the state. On occasion they would participate in backing up the local media, who tended to be quite suspicious of the programs as well because of the homeschooling link, with juicy quotes.

The years passed, and the erosion of freedom never materialized. Independent homeschoolers in the state are still completely free of regulation, and the various programs have thrived (and saved the public money, as the cost to educate a charter homeschooler is less than the same student in a public school.)

[SeaConquest]

3 hours ago, KidsHappen said:

The post is in response to the OP in which in at least two posts she stated that CA is the largest state in the US. Alaska is the largest state in the union and Texas is the largest in the continental United States although CA is the most populous and appears to have the most homeschoolers which is I assume the point you were trying to make. I followed this entire thread just to see if someone corrected this and now don't want to go back and search for the posts stating this. Apparently my OCD is working just a little more than normal. 😉

 

My apologies. I stand corrected. 🙂