Math question: what to take after 11th grade precalc

[Garga]

My DS has been homeschooled through this year—the end of 11th grade.  For reasons, he’ll be going to a cyber school next year for 12th grade. (This has already been discussed in another thread and once I explained the reasons, the hive agreed that my choice is good for this particular student, so we don’t need to go into why on this thread.)  

The cyber school has listings of what they offer after precalc, which DS took this year and received an A in from an outsourced teacher.  

I’m going to an orientation with the cyber school in a couple of weeks and we’ll be choosing his classes then.  I spoke with a guidance counsellor on the phone, and she said at they will place the student based heavily on what the parent recommends.  So...I need to know what to recommend. I don’t know anything about math beyond Alg I, II, and Geometry, so I am not the best to advise my son on what math to take for 12th grade.  Can you guys read the below and see if I’m understanding what they offer and what it all means to his future?  

My son will be going to college after high school.  He loves math and does well in his math classes (always gets As.)  But he has zero idea of what to do in college.  When people say, “What are your plans for college?” He says, “I don’t really know.  But I do like math, so maybe something with that...”

Here’s what the cyber school offers after pre-calc:

Survey of Calculus
AP Calc AB
AP Statistics

Here are the descriptions:

Survey of Calculus:

1 credit | Grades 11-12

Prerequisite: Pre-Calculus.
This course is designed for the college bound student who wishes to continue the study of calculus in college. This is a college level preparatory class; it is not an Advanced Placement class.
The course is aligned to the PA Core Standards.
Topics include functions and their graphs, limits, derivatives, integration and other introductory calculus concepts.
The TI83+ calculator is provided.
Upon completion of this course the student will be prepared for a first year college level calculus course or AP Calculus.
Textbook: Cengage: Calculus 1 and Precalculus

 

AP Calc AB:

1 credit | Grades 11-12
Prerequisite: Successful completion of Pre-Calculus and and completion of AP course application.
AP Calculus AB is roughly equivalent to a first semester college calculus course devoted to topics in differential and integral calculus. The course is aligned to the Mathematical Practices for AP Calculus developed by The College Board.
The AP course covers topics in these areas, including concepts and skills of limits, derivatives, definite integrals, and the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus. The course teaches students to approach calculus concepts and problems when they are represented graphically, numerically, analytically, and verbally, and to make connections amongst these representations. Students learn how to use technology to help solve problems, experiment, interpret results, and support conclusions.
Upon completion of this course the student will be prepared to successfully take the AP Calculus AB exam and will be ready for a 2nd year college Calculus course.
Textbook: Cengage: Calculus: AP Edition

Statistics:

1 credit | Grades 11-12
Prerequisite: Successful completion of Pre-Calculus
The AP Statistics course is equivalent to a one-semester, introductory, non-calculus-based college course in statistics. The course introduces students to the major concepts and tools for collecting, analyzing, and drawing conclusions from data. There are four themes in the AP Statistics course: exploring data, sampling and experimentation, anticipating patterns, and statistical inference. Students use technology, investigations, problem solving, and writing as they build conceptual understanding.
Digital Textbook: Bedford/St. Martins: Principles of Statistics

 

What is the difference between Survey of Calculus and AP Calc AB?  Is Survey of Calc simply a regular high school level calc class and the AP one is college level (being an AP?)  If he takes Survey of Calc and goes to college, he’d have to take a first year calculus course in college, right?  I’m asking because in the description of the AP Calc class, it says that a college bound student would be ready for second year calc in college after taking the AP calc course (and the AP exam), but for the survey class, it says they’ll be ready to take a first year college level course.

And what about this Statistics option?  How does that fit in?  I wonder if that’s for kids who made it through precalc and realize they hate calculus and don’t want to continue with it and want to do a different math because they’re not a mathy kid?  ?

So, for a kid who likes math and does well in it, but has no idea what he wants to do, what is the next logical step?  I’m leaning toward AP Calc AB, because it seems like if he takes a year off from calculus to do statistics, he’ll forget things and have to review precalc (or retake it) in college.  So if he takes statistics next year, he’ll potentially have to retake pre-calc in college, and then move on to first year, then second year calc.  But if he takes the AP class, he’ll be able to head right to second year calc (if he so desires).  Or at least he should take the Survey class so he can progress into first year calc in college.  Overall, it seems like Statistics will knock him off course.

Do I have that right?  

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Garga

[RootAnn]

Stats is a good class. Based on your description, I would say AP Calc, but I'd also wonder if he could double up & also take Stats.

And he won't be ready for a second "year" college class after AP Calc AB (and sufficiently high score on the AP exam), but a second "semester" (Freshman) college one. If they offered AP Calc BC and he scored high enough on the AP exam, he could go into Calc 3 which is usually a 200-level college class. 

If he is strong in math fundamentals & looking at something STEM-related in college, I would not have him take the survey class.

[Arcadia]

My first choice would be AP Calculus BC if it’s available, then AP Calculus AB if that’s the only option.

My kids took AP Statistics as a summer class last year. Both my kids wanted a break from calculus but wanted to get a math credit done over summer. Another factor was that both my kids are interested in business as they hope to be self employed after gaining job experience working for MNCs. I do think statistics is useful as an elective if a student has the time to do it. 

What is he planning to do for science? If it’s Physics, then AP Calculus AB would be much more useful than AP Statistics.  

[Garga]

8 hours ago, Arcadia said:

My first choice would be AP Calculus BC if it’s available, then AP Calculus AB if that’s the only option.

Only AB is available.

8 hours ago, Arcadia said:

My kids took AP Statistics as a summer class last year. Both my kids wanted a break from calculus but wanted to get a math credit done over summer. Another factor was that both my kids are interested in business as they hope to be self employed after gaining job experience working for MNCs. I do think statistics is useful as an elective if a student has the time to do it. 

What is he planning to do for science? If it’s Physics, then AP Calculus AB would be much more useful than AP Statistics.  

I think Statistics is useful, too.  Interesting idea to do it as an elective— @Arcadiamentioned taking it as well.

He already did physics this year (and did very well with all the math in it), and I believe was going to do a Marine Bio class next year.  He’s still deciding on science.

[Garga]

8 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Stats is a good class. Based on your description, I would say AP Calc, but I'd also wonder if he could double up & also take Stats.

And he won't be ready for a second "year" college class after AP Calc AB (and sufficiently high score on the AP exam), but a second "semester" (Freshman) college one. If they offered AP Calc BC and he scored high enough on the AP exam, he could go into Calc 3 which is usually a 200-level college class. 

If he is strong in math fundamentals & looking at something STEM-related in college, I would not have him take the survey class.

Thanks for the clarification on the second “year” vs second “semester”.  

[EKS]

My vote is for AB calculus.  Though if he likes math, could he take that along with statistics?  

For a good math student, AB is going to be a relaxed introduction to calculus, since it is a one semester course taken over two semesters.  I suspect it will be enjoyable for him assuming that the teacher is decent.

And statistics is just fun (and, I would add, useful in a day-to-day sense).  At least that's what my son thinks--he took it this year after taking BC calculus last year--and he loved it so much that he has decided to double major in math and economics.  But again, a good teacher is important.

[City Mouse]

My DS took Stat as  duel enrollment student this year. At his college, Stats counts as a math class, but it is on a different strand (and has a different code than the other math classes). If he is planning on taking Calc or beyond in college, then one of the Calc classes you listed are probably best. My DS took Stats and College Algebra (at college) because is current degree plan does not require math beyond college algebra.

[daijobu]

Another vote for AP Calc AB.  Our AP stats class at PAH was very easy.  I'd maybe wait to take a more challenging statistics class in college, or self-study statistics for fun.  

Like it or not, taking AP calc is a short hand that college admissions uses to demonstrate that a student is more or less a serious math student.  

[Pistachio mom]

We chose to go with a basic introduction to statistics for senior year math for one semester and financial literacy  (with applied algebra review) the second semester.  I have a fine arts girl who needed a math that will help her in the real world. She is not AP material for math. Statistics paired really well with studying government and was a good per-cursor for Economics. This worked for us. Also, if she ever wanted to switch to an education degree, I thought the statistics class would help her to understand research and the descriptive stats classes required in college. She has decided on a fine arts degree right now.

[EKS]

On 6/14/2019 at 12:06 PM, HeighHo said:

AP Stats is not offered here as most of the material was already offered in science and previous math courses.  I would suggest AP or DE MicroEcon instead.  

I don't know where you are, but my son has done honors math the whole way, and he learned a ton of new stuff in AP Statistics.  It wasn't in the least bit challenging, but it was new. 

I would not recommend AP Economics to replace math.

Edited June 16, 2019 by EKS

[EKS]

2 hours ago, HeighHo said:

If one wants to spend a year long period of high school on unchallenging work, that's a great recommendation. 

My recommendation upthread was to take AB Calculus because of the reasons you state above, and then if there was interest and room in the schedule to take AP Statistics as a fun elective.  In the post you were replying to, I was simply differentiating between "new" and "challenging" material.

 

[EKS]

19 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

In your original post, you are recommending Calc AB as a relaxed course for  a good math student.

Not at all.  I was working with the choices given by the OP.  Of those choices, I would recommend AB Calculus because it is the most rigorous of the three, but I would characterize it as a relaxed course.  As you point out, BC Calculus was not on the list. 

I actually think we agree here.

[Arcadia]

On 6/14/2019 at 5:27 AM, Garga said:

He already did physics this year (and did very well with all the math in it), and I believe was going to do a Marine Bio class next year.  He’s still deciding on science.

 

A friend’s uprising 10th grader wants to major in marine biology. Below is from U of W page and is a nice reference for minimum requirements (other than there is no AP Marine Biology so I assume it’s a typo). I assume he has done chemistry. My oldest has found doing statistics and economics together a good combination as one is more computation and one is more theoretical, but both require common sense. Another thing I would look at is balancing the overall academic load with college applications. 

“

• Math Courses
  • Pre-calculus (preferred)
  • Calculus (preferred)
  • Statistics (optional)
• Science Courses – At least one unit each:
  • Biology (preferred)
  • Chemistry (preferred)
  • Physics (optional)
• Writing Courses – You may be surprised how important writing is to both college success and careers in marine science. Seek out opportunities to write whenever you can. Writing classes are one way to develop this skill, but writing for your school’s newspaper or blog or keeping a journal can also help to improve your writing.
• Optional Courses – Some high schools offer specialized courses in environmental science and marine biology. These courses are a great way to explore different fields of interest. Some that we recommend:
  • AP Marine Biology
  • AP Environmental Science
  • OCEAN 101 – Oceanography of the Pacific Northwest (available in certain Washington high schools through the UW in the High Schoolprogram)
  • ESRM 150 – Wildlife in the Modern World (available in certain Washington high schools through the UW in the High School program)

In addition to coursework, an important part of preparing for a degree in marine science is getting out into the marine environment and getting your hands wet! Get hands-on experience early through volunteer work or internships in the field. If you live you live miles from the nearest ocean, consider volunteering at your local aquarium or getting involved in other environmental/biological opportunities closer home.” https://marinebiology.uw.edu/students/prepare/

If your son learns well by videos, get him to check out this link http://www.larsoncalculus.com/calc10/content/proof-videos/

[gstharr]

A little late to the party, but I am now far enough along in my latest experiment to have an opinion.  I signed the new 9th grader up for thinkwell Calculus (the college class, not ab, bc). Was going to wait until the fall to actually start.  Did not want to start the clock running on the 12 month subscription just yet.  Too many breaks because of summer activities.  Anyway,  found these short and free classes on EDx.   On-Ramp to Calculus is around 20 hours on limits.   Then followed that up with Preparing for the AP Calculus AB Exam (part 1).  The title suggest test prep, but it is actually a 7 weeks class on limits and derivatives.  Curious as to how effective these FREE classes were,  so I had him do some random problems out of Larson's.  No problem at all. This seems to be a good summer post pre-calculus sequence before actually starting calculus.  Maybe, when we are 1/2 way through Thinkell, we will go back to Edx and take Preparing for AP Cal (part2) that does seem to me more text prep. For those further along, there is a free class on difficult problems on the AP Exam.