Distributed practice, review boxes, spaced review, etc

[Lecka]

Your best practices!  

I am in need of continuing review of a mastered skill, as well as teaching the next skill, to a very, very mastery learner.  I really need him not to forget his current skill.

The skills in question are — addition with regrouping.  He is doing well.  I am having him do daily review.  He has been consistent for probably 2-3 days with getting all the answers correct and remembering everything properly.  

A year ago he knew all his subtractions facts, but I don’t know what he remembers now.  Probably he does need review.  

Should I just review his addition and add in review of subtraction facts?

I am concerned about him being confused between what to do with regrouping when it is adding or subtracting.  I tried to work on both at the same time and it confused him.  So how long do I wait if I don’t want to confuse him, to try again with subtraction with regrouping?  

In the longer term, I am also wondering when you go from daily review to weekly review? 

I have an impression it can be better to review one topic at a time, instead of mixed review, on the same day?  Or some of each (mixed review and topical review on different days).

I am really, really, really wanting stuff to be retained.  

[PeterPan]

Well some stuff is more important to retain than others. I would *prioritize* anything that affects life skills. Most 2 digit math is done mentally and larger with a calculator, so I prioritize 2 digit math, especially in amounts useful for money. That way he can be in the store and know how much 3 candy bars will cost, that kind of thing. Autism Classroom News on TPT has some really nice activities where they estimate how many dollars they would need, that kind of thing. So getting it more into life is one way.

Also there are the Tang math worksheets. Start maybe with a gr 1 or something and just drip drip. https://tangmath.com/products/subscription   Just look at see what makes sense to you. Maybe a gr 2, I don't know. They have different packs and worksheet types within each pack. My ds is not strong at any of them that involve letters, language, that kind of thing, so we're not using all the worksheets. But what we *are* using is good. I'm always trying to do things in a different way, because if I drill with flashcards, he has it with flashcards, kwim? So not one way but this way, that way, another way.

Most of the workbook publishers have daily math warm-up type books. Honestly I use them to drive instruction for my ds, not practice. It's just this drip drip and it works with him. Well I say that, and I'm using them for word problems right now, not computation. But you know just look at them and see what jumps out at you. I frequently use:

Carson Dellosa

Teacher Created Materials

Teacher Created Resources

Evan Moor

You can filter each for ebooks then by subject and grade. TeacherCreated will have some art graphic pages. You could probably also find something on TPT to suit you. 

So I would drip drip, like one a day on the multi-digit add/subtraction. I would use a worksheet and life activities every day for fact fluency. I would try to get things into context, so they're being reinforced in more naturalistic ways, even with worksheets. So do a daily word problem warm-up workbook, so that he's using he's facts in word problems, just one or two each day. Something like https://www.evan-moor.com/p/20076/Evan-Moor-Daily-Word-Problems-Teacher’s-Edition-E-Book-Grade-2  

There's some research with using alzheimer's medications to help learning in ASD. Like at some point it may be something that just is what it is. I think getting it into life and applied somehow will help. 

[Lecka]

I will check out the workbooks for sure.

I think I might make a list of topics and then loop through them.  

[kbutton]

I heard Anki flashcards learn what interval works best for mastery for the student using them. I think Anki supports all kinds of inputs--pictures, typing, voice, etc. 

I think you can also make different decks/sets--I don't know if you can mix decks, or if you have to copy and paste the information into multiple decks.

We have an IEP goal of review, but I am not sure how well it's being implemented right now. We're using regular index cards at the moment, but I would consider Anki cards if it's hard to discern what's being retained.

[Lecka]

I didn’t know that about Anki.  

I made a list and went through it (which I was not expecting to happen!), with 1/2 page Kumon addition, review subtraction facts, read out loud, and spelling.  

Then my other topic I want to review is money, but that does not need to be very often.  

He did remember the subtraction facts so far — I was pleasantly surprised.  

So I am thinking right now — to keep on in the Kumon addition book, while reviewing subtraction facts, and then hopefully have a really good foundation with addition by the time he has reviewed subtraction facts, and then try again with borrowing.  

I would love for him to be solid with addition and subtraction with regrouping by the end of summer.  Then I can think about more of a mixed review with word problems, I think.

Right now I feel like the regrouping is holding him back from being able to do mixed review in a way that would make sense for him.  I would *like* to do mixed review, but he doesn’t have some things down enough to review them, and he won’t remember if I don’t spend enough time on it, I think.  

 

 

[kbutton]

I hope I am right about that. I do know it has spaced repetition. Perhaps it is set by the user and not determined by the program. There have been some past threads on the subject.

[Cymbol]

We have been struggling with this a well...with all subjects really.  For math, I used to focus on a mastery approach and then have him do review homework.  I would have 5 different notebooks where I would write review problems (one word problem, one money, one comparing, etc.) and cycle through them.  It worked BUT it took too much time on my part so eventually I stopped.  I ended up switching his curriculum to CLE math.  I’m just throwing this out there.  I know the pain involved in switching curriculum.  It took us a little bit to getting used to the format but there’s constant review built in.  There’s a word problem for every lesson, fact review, and other topics so I don’t have to worry about them individually.  If I find he needs more work in a certain area, I’ll stop and do a mini review lesson. 

FYI.  If you’re looking into Multiplication, my son who is very visual loved the Mathemagics app.  It does have very silly humor in it but somehow makes the facts stick.  

[Lecka]

I have looked at CLE recently and it does look really good!  I just don’t want to buy something else right now, and I think I can use things I have for now.  But I might try it for 3rd grade math.

I am just so tired of certain things not being retained.  Like computation!!!!!!! 

I am feeling good right now, though, for him to have some adding on paper and some subtraction facts out loud.  

Part of the thing with me is my son is in school in a special class, and they do good with him on some things, so it’s not that I have to do everything.  

But he is much weaker on computation than other kids in his class and I do not think they have the time to focus on it or to sit with him and make sure he does it.  

He is in class with kids who are good at computation already but struggle with things like word problems, so they are good about that, and they are good about everything that is a life skill (like money). 

I do think it looks like what I am wanting is built into CLE, though!  At least as far as review.  

I think I get impatient, too, and this time I am just NOT going to spend too little time or fail to review.  

[Pen]

Does he like computer math related

games?

[Lecka]

Not really.  I would have to sit with him and he would ask if he could play games.  He used to when it was his all he did on the computer.  But that ship has sailed and he does much better at the kitchen table away from the computer now.  

[EKS]

I'd pick a math program that incorporates continual review.  Saxon and TT come to mind.

[Pen]

For my son, MathUSee worked extremely well with the right amount and frequency of review built in.

https://demmelearning.com/learning-blog/mastery-vs-spiral-the-debate-continues/

They now have a lot more review options available with worksheet generators for more practice and review than workbooks provide, if needed by a particular child:

https://www.mathusee.com/e-learning/worksheets/

[Lecka]

Thanks, I will check on this, too.

Right now things are going well.  He is doing carrying with addition.  I will see what happens when I try again with borrowing with subtraction!  Hopefully it will go really smoothly.  

[Kanin]

I've found a lot of useful info here:  https://www.retrievalpractice.org/

I'm not sure if it's the right way to go about things, but with my math students, I do a "warm up" worksheet every day with 5 questions - one subtraction w/ borrowing, one addition w/ regrouping, one multiplication, one division, one word problem. I tailor it to what they've been forgetting, or throw in something they haven't done for a while to keep it fresh. I hope it's helpful to them. They definitely forget quickly. 

[Lecka]

Just an update — I had a good glimmer with showing subtraction with borrowing on the abacus.  Yay!  

For now I am NOT going to mix addition and subtraction at all.  Separate times of day!  

Mainer — I have skimmed some various things, and I think for my son it might be better to do some review of one topic at a time, it might let him get a better review if he is kind-of forgetting. 

I think mixed review might be more for things that are really solidly mastered.  

For now I think my son has stayed on some topics for pretty long (he is 10 and has been doing math topics through 2nd grade for years) and I want to focus more on the things that he has never quite gotten down.  

Plus he is going to ESY this summer and they will do review with him there......

Edit:  on the bright side, he’s really pretty solid with a lot of K-2nd math.  I had a choice when he was in 1st grade to take him out of grade-level math and think it was the right choice.  

Edited June 9, 2019 by Lecka

[Lecka]

Well — I have ended up ordering Saxon Intermediate 3.  I think the review looks very good.  

I am going to keep using what I have, and look through the Saxon when it comes, and preview some things before he starts.  

He hasn’t had much exposure to fractions, and he will work on multiplication facts more.  I know that for sure.  And then maybe more than that.  

It looks like it will be very do-able.  

[Lecka]

To update — Saxon Intermediate 3 is working out well!  I had had the Larson Saxon 3 and the Intermediate 3 seems easier and has a better structure for us.  

The mixed review is going very, very well.  It’s a good length and a good mixture.  

I did get the Written Practice Workbook and that is very helpful.  We do still need scratch paper for the Lesson Practice and as scratch paper here and there for the worksheets.

I’m definitely supplementing for fractions, math facts, and adding use of an abacus for addition and subtraction concepts.  

I went through today and took out the math facts pages from Larson Saxon 3, and I have the flash cards from Saxon K-3.  

There is less of this in Saxon Intermediate 3 — the facts practice included in the Power Up is very gentle (a smaller amount, yay, and more review so far), but I will be adding in some of the other math facts pages.  I’m planning to draw a line and just use 20 facts at a time from the long 100-fact math fact sheets.  If I even use them — he likes math fact practice where he can see that there’s a certain amount to do — so a stack of flash cards he sees get smaller, or a worksheet where he sees just how much he has left, has been working well for now, but I do have games and would be happy to use them 😉 

[Lecka]

Going back to my first post..... every Mixed Practice right now has about 6-8 questions that are mixed addition and subtraction, and he is doing well now with noticing and switching between them.  

He’s doing well with regrouping in subtraction, too.

He’s had one introduction to subtraction where he would need to borrow twice, and he definitely hasn’t learned that but he got a decent first pass.  

[Lecka]

I have just started adding Cuisenaire rods for fractions.  I had them when he was younger, they never really gelled, I got rid of them, and then — I ordered some more (thank goodness for about $6 on Amazon!) and they are working out!  

Otherwise — every “section” covers 10 lessons.  The later lessons in a section go up a lot in difficulty, but more of the review (mixed practice) questions seem to come from the earlier lessons in a section, so I am not stressing over the later “hard” lessons.  

I will see — I do appreciate them using an example child who is pretty agreeable, on the Education Unboxed videos I have watched.  It makes for a good example video.  But my goodness, it’s not my experience.  

Edit:  I have done some reading and it seems like right now a lot of people think that keys for fractions are using a physical manipulative (not just drawings) and understanding where fractions go on a number line.  

Edited September 3, 2019 by Lecka

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, Lecka said:

I will see — I do appreciate them using an example child who is pretty agreeable, on the Education Unboxed videos I have watched.  It makes for a good example video.  But my goodness, it’s not my experience.  

Edit:  I have done some reading and it seems like right now a lot of people think that keys for fractions are using a physical manipulative (not just drawings) and understanding where fractions go on a number line.  

Both of those statements seem realistic. 🙂 The novelty of the new method might take some time to wear off and seem more expected and doable to your kiddo. 

[kbutton]

Has he used the place value sets that are not multi-colored (where the unit cubes, rods, and ten flats are the same colors)? I'm thinking that if he has, he might need some reminders of how the cuisinaire rods relate to the sets that are all one color. 

[Lecka]

Yes, we ended up using Unix cubes, and then those blue ten rods and hundred flats (a flat square the size of ten blue rods).  

We did not get very far with the Cuisenaire rods when we had them before.  Though my daughter liked to make fancy squares with different patterns, so I thought we did get use out of them.  And we used the little one blocks and the orange tens sometimes with Eli and that worked out.  At one point I sent all the blue rods and flats to school and kept the Cuisenaire rods at home, but we just used them for the ones and the tens.  

Anyway — for fractions at this point, you don’t need to know!  Which is exciting lol.  You can use any size as “one” and then use whatever size can work as a smaller size.  And then I know I want to do halves, thirds, and fourths 😉 So I can conveniently have the ones out that will work that way.  

I am honestly using them more to model what is in the Saxon book, to a great extent.  I’m bringing in a bit more than that, but mainly modeling the lesson he would be on anyway.  

I have been using a fraction manipulative that came with a Rightstart set, and he likes that, but it’s flimsy, and one of the things I really want is to be able to draw a line along a rod, and then find points from other rods to label fractions.  It works much better than the Rightstart set.  But I just use that for comparing fractions instead of going through using the rods for that.  

They also introduce this with using a ruler and looking at 1/2 and 1/4 inches — and he is doing better with that, but —————— it is confusing with all the lines and I wish I had gotten the Cuisenaire rods earlier for that 😉. But generalizing is good!  

I am still checking out videos..... 

[PeterPan]

Consider explaining the parts as scaling. So scaling and dividing into parts/fractions are inverses of each other.

Ronit Bird does a beautiful job of teaching the c-rods in her crods book.

[Lecka]

Thanks, I will check that out too 🙂

[Lecka]

It looks like there are YouTube videos from Ronit Bird with Cuisenaire rods, cool!

[ktgrok]

On 6/6/2019 at 12:25 PM, Lecka said:

I have looked at CLE recently and it does look really good!  I just don’t want to buy something else right now, and I think I can use things I have for now.  But I might try it for 3rd grade math.

I am just so tired of certain things not being retained.  Like computation!!!!!!! 

I am feeling good right now, though, for him to have some adding on paper and some subtraction facts out loud.  

Part of the thing with me is my son is in school in a special class, and they do good with him on some things, so it’s not that I have to do everything.  

But he is much weaker on computation than other kids in his class and I do not think they have the time to focus on it or to sit with him and make sure he does it.  

He is in class with kids who are good at computation already but struggle with things like word problems, so they are good about that, and they are good about everything that is a life skill (like money). 

I do think it looks like what I am wanting is built into CLE, though!  At least as far as review.  

I think I get impatient, too, and this time I am just NOT going to spend too little time or fail to review.  

Yup, my kids need that daily review. CLE gives it, and the other thing that does is Teaching Textbooks. Similar format in that the new concept is taught, there are problems on that concept, and then the rest of the lesson is a mixed review of everything they already learned. The other nice thing about it is that next to each of those problems is the number of the lesson they first learned it in (or reviewed it, if it is a skill from a previous year - all skills are reviewed at the beginning of each level). That way if they are confused they can go back and watch that lecture again and see how to do it. 

[Lecka]

He needs the review, and also, he is quick to go on auto-pilot if he does several of the same type of problem, which is okay and good to some extent, but it is like he doesn’t retain as well even though he does a lot..... but I think some problems solve that by having word problems, but then those word problems are a bit too hard.  Here and there a Saxon word problem is too hard, and I re-word it, but — they are overall very reachable, and not getting to be stuff I feel like is confusing just for the sake of being confusing, or  introducing Algebra-style wording very early.  Which is great for kids that get it but not great for everybody else (which I heard was 10-20% at our previous location, and closer to half here).  

I am definitely looking at Saxon Intermediate 4 after Saxon Intermediate 3 — the format is similar and the order is similar, it will be a help.  But that series only goes through Saxon Intermediate 5.  I will keep in mind CLE and Teaching Textbooks.

I had in my mind that CLE was not Common Core (which I have a preference for if something *will also work*) but just glancing at the scope and sequence it looks like it does cover the Common Core topics for 3rd grade.  And I will keep in mind Teaching Textbooks.  

I’m hoping to do 1/2 a lesson a day every day (every day actually makes it easier to keep a routine here, so it’s actually easier... it sounds crazy but I tend to regret coming back from a break) after school starts, but he has a new teacher and I will talk to her and see what she says her plans are.  The teacher he is going to have has a great reputation and I have heard she keeps kids going on academics.  The teacher he had last year did not, but she was very kind and strong on social, so I was like — it’s fine, social is more important, and I can supplement at home.  (Edit — it’s not that she didn’t do anything, she did some good things, but for math she mainly did review for my son — but he benefits a lot from review so it’s not like I think it’s bad — but I would not mind a little more than she did.). But maybe I will have it all next year, lol.  I’m not holding my breath, but still, I have a good feeling.  

Edited September 4, 2019 by Lecka

[kbutton]

I am glad there won't be confusing over the differences in rods. That's great. I am excited you have something new to try--even if something takes a long time, if you have fresh ways of trying things, it makes it exciting and more fun.

[Lecka]

I think it will make it seem easier too, when he can do a different way and have it be easier — it goes a long way.  He does not do well if he has too much in the “hard” range.  

[Lecka]

I'm not sure where I got the suggestion, but somewhere on here, I got a suggestion to write sentence frames for math.  It is going great!  He is doing so much better with being able to say the answer using a complete sentence!  It is very heartening as he is using some decently long sentences!  And I think it is helping his math thinking as well.  

[ktgrok]

On 6/8/2019 at 10:19 AM, Mainer said:

I've found a lot of useful info here:  https://www.retrievalpractice.org/

I'm not sure if it's the right way to go about things, but with my math students, I do a "warm up" worksheet every day with 5 questions - one subtraction w/ borrowing, one addition w/ regrouping, one multiplication, one division, one word problem. I tailor it to what they've been forgetting, or throw in something they haven't done for a while to keep it fresh. I hope it's helpful to them. They definitely forget quickly. 

This. And if he needs help noticing signs you can highlight the signs in different colors - so yellow for addition, blue for subtraction, etc. The color draws his eye to the sign so he notices it. 

 

On 11/1/2019 at 1:13 PM, Lecka said:

I'm not sure where I got the suggestion, but somewhere on here, I got a suggestion to write sentence frames for math.  It is going great!  He is doing so much better with being able to say the answer using a complete sentence!  It is very heartening as he is using some decently long sentences!  And I think it is helping his math thinking as well.  

That is a right brained learner thing supposedly - that they need to cement the whole equation in their head. So have them read the whole thing.

Also, for kids like that supposedly doing flashcards with the answers ON THEM can help. They look at the flashcard, read it out loud including the answer, close their eyes and picture the flashcard, then read it again from the picture in their mind. Then do the next one. Doing flashcards without answers on them only has them remember the problem with a blank for the answer. Not what we want, lol. 

And if you want some fun review, right now the welltrained mind website has a sale on the digital versions of Math Facts that Stick series - it has regular practice but also has games that are pretty fun. We are doing the multiplication book with my 4th grader right now. More fun to say the facts over and over while playing a game than doing flashcards. 

[Lecka]

He is doing surprisingly well with skip-counting and I think he likes that it is reliable.  
 

Today is a day off of public school and we did Lesson 77 of Saxon Intermediate 3, and used many complete sentences to answer on his own!!!!!!!

I feel like he has come a long way 🙂

But oh my goodness!  I am not planning to cover all the new info (I’m planning to stop covering new info at Lesson 90) and I am looking forward happily to doing review at the beginning of Int. 4!!!!! I was going to switch to 5/4 but I think the Written Practice Workbook with the Intermediate series is very needed, sigh.  
 

Thanks for the visual ideas!  
 

I ended up re-buying C-Rods and he is doing really well with them.  When he was younger I had them but ended up only using the 1s and 10s, but this time around he likes all of the rods.  

[Lecka]

I am thinking about stopping for a while and just doing math facts review and the flashcards with answers written are a good idea!

[Lecka]

I do have addition and subtraction facts that stick 🙂

[Pen]

Have you read Make It Stick?  It goes over some research findings about what works best in general.  Maybe not Learning Challenge kid related, but still helpful, I think. 

[Lecka]

No, I will check that out!

[Lecka]

Bump and an update:

We have finished most of Saxon Intermediate 3 and currently on Lesson 85 Saxon 5/4.  
 

Addition and subtraction with re-grouping are going great!!!!!!

Basic fraction concepts — great!!!!!!

Doing well with long division!!!!!!

Doing well with word problems!!!!!!

 

[kbutton]

22 hours ago, Lecka said:

Bump and an update:

We have finished most of Saxon Intermediate 3 and currently on Lesson 85 Saxon 5/4.  
 

Addition and subtraction with re-grouping are going great!!!!!!

Basic fraction concepts — great!!!!!!

Doing well with long division!!!!!!

Doing well with word problems!!!!!!

 

That's awesome!