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Would you teach a co-op if your after taxes hourly take home would be less than $5 per hour?


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We are in a very high tax state in a very high tax bracket, and due to the small class sizes and needing to keep this particular age and subject low cost....my hourly wage will end up being less than $5 per hour.

I'm excited to have this opportunity, and I love teaching.  I'd like to start building a future for myself after the kids are grown and getting my foot in the door teaching will mean I can take on greater teaching roles later on.  

But I don't want to end up frustrated and that the frustration is all for nothing.  ...

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Maybe. If my goal was contributing to the community, etc. then I'd probably do it. I mean, I've taught co-ops for free because my kids were there and everyone was chipping in. If my goal was to make money, be professional, etc. then no way, especially if it took away from other income or my own pursuits or educating my own kids.

Edited by Farrar
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I teach co-op classes at time for low pay.  I have done it in the past because my kids were involved in the community and I wanted to support that community.  But now as my kids get older, I also consider it a resume builder that works for our schedule right now.  

For me it is more than $5 an hour for sure.  But I always spend WAY more on supplies and training materials, etc so my take home ends up being tiny.  I'm happy if it takes a chunk out of what I pay for my kids to participate.  

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I really love this community and want to contribute...

But there are also issues with being worried about filing as an independent contractor.  After reading online, I guess I have to send my estimated taxes 4 times per year, and I have to keep very accurate records of my expenses so that I can correctly claim whatever my actual profits are, since the taxes are based off of that.

BUT I am TERRIBLE at keeping receipts and doing book keeping.  Truly, it is my nemesis.  So I am afraid I would mess something up so bad that we would end up being audited. And that would definitely be a mess.

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Wow, I don't know.  I taught for nearly nothing when it was classes I organized because I wanted to build a community for my own kids.  Now that I'm teaching only for other people, I try to keep my hourly rate above $90, preferably at $120/hour.  I quit at a co-op this year because I calculated I was only making $75/hour.  I respect the ppl who run this co-op and think they are providing a great service, but otherwise I don't have warm fuzzy feelings for them.   If it was an underserved population I would definitely do it for less/free.  

 

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I wouldn't worry too much about keeping records if that's a main concern.

I would do it for that sort of pay if there were a need, no one else could contribute the way you do, and as a way to build your resume if you don't have any other opportunities. 

The problem I've noticed is that sometimes it's hard to get the students to care and participate and that attitude affects you as a teacher to a point where you'll start looking at your take home pay and resent it. So if it were me, I would see how passionate the kids are and how involved the parents are first. The last thing you want is to hate teaching other people's kids. 

 

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I think Farrar is right about the estimated taxes.  From the IRS website: 

Individuals, including sole proprietors, partners, and S corporation shareholders, generally have to make estimated tax payments if they expect to owe tax of $1,000 or more when their return is filed.

Corporations generally have to make estimated tax payments if they expect to owe tax of $500 or more when their return is filed.

I'm not making estimated tax payments yet because I'm still not making any profit or drawing a salary at all. 

The book-keeping on the other hand..... I can relate.  We ended up doing 7 months worth of bookkeeping in January and it was a real pain.  A big pile of receipts, bank statements and we put everything together in Quickbooks.   I'm actually planning to do my receipts for this year so far in the next couple of weeks.   

But even that might not be as bad as you think.  How many supplies will you need to buy for the class?  If you make a list and gather them mostly at the beginning, it shouldn't be too bad.  I'm buying supplies on an ongoing basis for 12-15 classes, plus paying rent, internet fees, electric bill, etc.  I have a LOT of receipts.

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10 hours ago, Calming Tea said:

But there are also issues with being worried about filing as an independent contractor.  After reading online, I guess I have to send my estimated taxes 4 times per year, and I have to keep very accurate records of my expenses so that I can correctly claim whatever my actual profits are, since the taxes are based off of that.

BUT I am TERRIBLE at keeping receipts and doing book keeping.  Truly, it is my nemesis.  So I am afraid I would mess something up so bad that we would end up being audited. And that would definitely be a mess.

Keep in mind that if you will be filing your taxes jointly--as a married household and your husband has taxes withheld from his wages--you do not need to file quarterly estimates as an independent contractor. The reason for quarterly estimates is that the IRS wants its money/taxes as you go along, not in a lump sum at the end of the year. If you were filing as an individual and this was your sole source of income (you were not having taxes withheld elsewhere), you would need to file estimates.

If you do not want to pay more in taxes at the end of the year, estimate whether your joint income will require you to pay more, and you can have your husband raise his withholdings a bit to account for your additional income. Or you can just pay the difference at tax time if it is not significant. If it is significant, you will definitely want to up your withholdings.

I taught in co-ops for many years with a variety of compensation arrangements. It's tough to make a "decent" wage in those situations. In many classes, I would have been teaching the same material to my own kids at home and just wanted more discussion and accountability (so it wasn't so much about the money). In some years I "traded" teaching English with homeschooling friends who taught my kids in their own science and math classes. So no $ was exchanged. The best payment scheme ever--for me--was "working for food." Families would pay me by alternating bringing me a full dinner each week. That was awesome!

Good luck with your teaching plans!

Edited by Brigid in NC
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If your working hours are assigned to you, you don't meet the requirements for independent contractor.  It's not likely the co-op will be audited, but if it were, there could be a legal hassle.  You wouldn't be in trouble,  but the co-op would be for not paying you as an employee.  

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6 hours ago, klmama said:

If your working hours are assigned to you, you don't meet the requirements for independent contractor.  It's not likely the co-op will be audited, but if it were, there could be a legal hassle.  You wouldn't be in trouble,  but the co-op would be for not paying you as an employee.  

 

They're not assigned- this isn't CC...we have to open a form and choose the hours we are willing to work. 🙂

 

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I really see something like this as a bonus, as not as a salary. Like, they collected money, they pay you what they can in a little sum and that's it. Dh gets these little payments as an actor sometimes too. Like I said, obviously if it takes away from other things you need/want to do and you want an actual job, do not do this. This is essentially a volunteer position with a small gift attached, not a job. If you'd do it for free, have at it. If not, walk away and don't feel bad.

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This my thought. I sell on Teachers Pay Teachers. While I don't make enough where we could live solely off my earnings, I do make enough to pay the majority of our bills each month. This was the first year that DH's withholdings didn't cover my taxes. (He claims zero.) So, this is also my first year having to pay estimated taxes.

On 5/30/2019 at 8:52 PM, Farrar said:

With a payment that low, even if you mess it up, it seems unlikely that it's going to trigger IRS involvement. I mean, we're talking about a few hundred dollars, right?

 

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On 6/1/2019 at 9:48 AM, pitterpatter said:

This my thought. I sell on Teachers Pay Teachers. While I don't make enough where we could live solely off my earnings, I do make enough to pay the majority of our bills each month. This was the first year that DH's withholdings didn't cover my taxes. (He claims zero.) So, this is also my first year having to pay estimated taxes.

 

 

What kind of stuff do you sell? Curious.

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My primary store sells Girl Scout badge-earning resources. My educator store is newer. It sells a hodgepodge of supplemental resources. I initially wanted to create products for young learners that would align with the first round of the history cycle (as I had a hard time finding them when my daughter was young), but that has been a bit of a difficult market since many/most public schools study very little history at that age. And, they study it very differently from (classic) homeschoolers, so crossover is tricky. I've found some success with some other types of products, but they aren't really my passion. 😞 Overall, TPT is not an easy gig. There's a lot to it and it is highly competitive.

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