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Janeway

Song School Latin for 4th grade?

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I wanted an introduction to Latin and found these books in the used book store. There was no DVD though so I would still need to order the DVD. I am not stuck on having to start Latin right now. My 2nd grader only seems mildly interested, but kind of not really right now. Would it be silly to consider doing SSL with a 4th grader? Also, I have found I have all the audios for MP's Prima Latina, Latiana Christiana, and First Form Latin and beyond. But, I really want to switch to the Classical pronunciation.  Would I be better off returning these books (I bought them used but can still return) and moving on to something else?

 

edited to add: 2nd grader did like the DVD sample and says she would like more. She is very schooly. I think she is just distracted by "summer" right now.

Edited by Janeway

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I found SSL to be a scattered, parts-of-parts approach to Latin. If you aren't planning to continue with books by the publisher (CAP?) I wouldn't bother. The best introductory book to Latin that I've seen, for parts-to-whole learning, is GSWL.

Lots of people love SSL, but I think by 4th grade it is on the young side, and the vocabulary they teach doesn't transfer well to other programs.

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I found SSL a little on the young side even for my first grader. We ended up having my first grader do the light grammar stuff and my preschooler do the vocabulary stuff. It would probably be boring for a fourth grader.

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9 minutes ago, SusanC said:

I found SSL to be a scattered, parts-of-parts approach to Latin. If you aren't planning to continue with books by the publisher (CAP?) I wouldn't bother. The best introductory book to Latin that I've seen, for parts-to-whole learning, is GSWL.

Lots of people love SSL, but I think by 4th grade it is on the young side, and the vocabulary they teach doesn't transfer well to other programs.

We have GSWL which we are doing. We also have the workbook to Minimus, but not the rest of what is needed to teach it so that can only be used as a supplement. Only the 4th grader is doing GSWL and it is going very slow for us. He thinks it is his book and takes it to his room. I don't really object as I think it is nice that he is interested. Also, 4 yr old enjoyed watching the sample video, but doubt he could do anything serious with it. Currently, my plan it to continue with Latin for Children as I wish to stay with the classical pronunciation.

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2 minutes ago, Sarah0000 said:

I found SSL a little on the young side even for my first grader. We ended up having my first grader do the light grammar stuff and my preschooler do the vocabulary stuff. It would probably be boring for a fourth grader.

I was suspecting that while the sample was super fun for them, the younger children, that after a few lessons, they would grow tired of it. What do you think? Basically, that the 4 yr old would not be able to do the workbook and the 2nd grader would get bored with it after a few lessons so it would not be worth ordering the DVD for SSL. Was this your experience?

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1 minute ago, Janeway said:

I was suspecting that while the sample was super fun for them, the younger children, that after a few lessons, they would grow tired of it. What do you think? Basically, that the 4 yr old would not be able to do the workbook and the 2nd grader would get bored with it after a few lessons so it would not be worth ordering the DVD for SSL. Was this your experience?

No, my 7yo and 4yo and even my 1yo sometimes will sit and watch the DVDs for a few lessons at a time. They really like them for some reason. They also study Spanish and the 7yo has done Building Language from MCT so part of the fun is seeing how the vocabulary relates to Spanish and word roots. 

As for the workbook, my 7yo didn't really grow bored of it as it is nice to have something easy to do for a break. There are the occasional activities in the workbook for interest, such as building a paper boat and some creative drawing work. He liked that stuff and I really like anything he'll do on his own. But quite a bit of it is also tracing vocabulary words. That's what my four year old ended up doing sometimes for his handwriting practice. I do plan to continue with SSL2 next year. 

I don't have older children to say whether a fourth grader would like the DVDs. Maybe she would watch them and you guys could do the light vocab and grammar stuff orally from either the workbook or teacher's guide to fly through it.

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They didn’t have the DVD’s, but I used some of the SSL songs, etc in helping my Latin club prepare for the ELE, which is also very vocabulary based. It was definitely helpful to my kids-more so than many of the songs in the ELE packet. I can see it working for something that a younger child would do for real, and the 4th grader do something more, but then also learn the SSL songs/videos and play monkey match with a younger sibling.  I do think that for 4th grade, I would add Minimus, Learning Latin through Mythology, or GSWL,  just to have a little more, even if you plan to wait on starting “for real”.

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My third grader likes the DVDs.  He generally does not like cartoons (actually, he hates most cartoons) so I am surprised that he likes it. He didn't learn much Latin, though. Just a few basic words. That's all I was going for at this point in the game. I'm waiting until he's older to do anything serious with Latin. 

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I've used SSL. I would be okay with doing SSL1 with a 1st to 3rd, and SSL2 with 2nd to 4th. I've taught the classes at our co-op for that age range. I had my son in there slightly younger at K and 1st because he could read and write fluently already. The DVDs are fun and actually the favorite part for the kids. SSL2 as you can see is 3x as thick as SSL1 and gets into the grammar. It's very much focused on diglot weave approach. Dropping Latin words into an English context to help kids just acquire voacabulary. The 4th graders that it works well with are the ones who do not mind something that is aimed more at lower/mid elementary.

Our transition to CAP's Latin for Children was really smooth after SSL2. The newer version is far and away better than the original so if you are looking around for that used be sure to get the newer one. It is far more visually appealing and used a story approach with the diglot weave as well. I would not do LFC with a student who has no exposure to English grammar though. I mention this because of what you said above about classical pronunciation.

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2 hours ago, calbear said:

I've used SSL. I would be okay with doing SSL1 with a 1st to 3rd, and SSL2 with 2nd to 4th. I've taught the classes at our co-op for that age range. I had my son in there slightly younger at K and 1st because he could read and write fluently already. The DVDs are fun and actually the favorite part for the kids. SSL2 as you can see is 3x as thick as SSL1 and gets into the grammar. It's very much focused on diglot weave approach. Dropping Latin words into an English context to help kids just acquire voacabulary. The 4th graders that it works well with are the ones who do not mind something that is aimed more at lower/mid elementary.

Our transition to CAP's Latin for Children was really smooth after SSL2. The newer version is far and away better than the original so if you are looking around for that used be sure to get the newer one. It is far more visually appealing and used a story approach with the diglot weave as well. I would not do LFC with a student who has no exposure to English grammar though. I mention this because of what you said above about classical pronunciation.

Just curious..what does the English grammar have to do with the classical pronunciation?

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Sorry...I probably didn't complete my thoughts. You were looking for classical...so I assume you are looking for what to do after SSL or instead of SSL. So if you were to use LFC which does classical pronunciation unlike MP, then be aware that your student needs grammar exposure first or he will get overwhelmed by LFC.

I have no idea how MP is set up because I never looked at it seriously because I also wanted classical and not boring.

 

Edited by calbear

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17 minutes ago, calbear said:

Sorry...I probably didn't complete my thoughts. You were looking for classical...so I assume you are looking for what to do after SSL or instead of SSL. So if you were to use LFC which does classical pronunciation unlike MP, then be aware that your student needs grammar exposure first or he will get overwhelmed by LFC.

I have no idea how MP is set up because I never looked at it seriously because I also wanted classical and not boring.

 

I used MP with my much older kids. I do not think I even have the TMs or anything anymore. I just somehow managed to still have the audio. I do not recall for myself if they covered grammar. I am glad you pointed that out though. We have been doing BJU English which has grammar and writing. He started diagramming sentences at the end of this past year. I really do not wish to continue with the Ecclesiastical pronunciation. 

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I used it with a 4th and 3rd grader. They both enjoyed it. It was a great low key and low stress intro to Latin. 

It made Latin approachable and less intimidating. My 4th grader is slightly dyslexic and was a delayed reader and speller. It was a great slow start for us. 

I also used it with my oldest who was a strong reader but was more interested in spanish and had been focusing more on spanish. She enjoyed the slow start with Latin and found the program fun and simple. 

All my kids liked the videos. And many of them enjoyed the songs. 

We tried the other CAP Latin but have since switched to MP Latin which I like better. So we found SSL was a good start for us. 

I wrote about using it with older students here: http://lextineclectic.com/2015/11/how-i-use-song-school-latin-with-an-older-child.html

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My 2nd and 4th graders just did SSL in half a year. It wouldn't work for every child but it was a good fit for them. I let them skip over the tracing.

The music in SSL 2 is so. much. better. I keep hoping they will revise level 1.

 

 

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My oldest enjoyed it when she was in 4th grade. Maybe it’s because she has a better aural memory than visual but she retained better from SSL than GSWL.  I feel like the year we spent on GSWL was actually a waste for her and we should have just gone to FFL after SSL. 

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On 5/30/2019 at 2:48 PM, calbear said:

Sorry...I probably didn't complete my thoughts. You were looking for classical...so I assume you are looking for what to do after SSL or instead of SSL. So if you were to use LFC which does classical pronunciation unlike MP, then be aware that your student needs grammar exposure first or he will get overwhelmed by LFC.

I have no idea how MP is set up because I never looked at it seriously because I also wanted classical and not boring.

 

That's not correct actually. She is talking about pronunciation. The classical pronunciation is just that- pronunciation. MP uses ecclesiastical(church latin) pronunciation only (CAP includes both, you choose what you want to use) . One example of the difference is that in classical latin the v is pronounced w. (So sal-ve is pronounced sal-we in the classical pronunciation). Both programs present latin grammar and expect you to know what the counterpart is in english grammar. What is an adjective for example? You need english grammar alongside both. We use CAP, because in highschool my children learn classical latin. I don't want them to have to try and switch pronunciation when they get there. 

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